IRAQ WAR III

[Buster's Uncle]

We've done that a lot in Central and South America - which hasn't bitten us on the butt, there, either.

[vonbach]

We also didn't plop a bunch of jews into some of the holiest land for three religions in South America either.
Or give them unlimited money and guns and carte blanche to slaughter them. Every single enemy we have in the
middle east we've made. Its lot like Israel has been good allies either. Just take a look at the USS Liberty incident.
Thats when the jews tried to sink a US ship and it was no accident either.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/06/07/alan-hart-israels-attack-on-the-uss-liberty-the-full-story/

[vonbach]

We also didn't plop a bunch of jews into some of the holiest land for three religions in South America either.
Or give them unlimited money and guns and carte blanche to slaughter them. Every single enemy we have in the
middle east we've made. Its lot like Israel has been good allies either. Just take a look at the USS Liberty incident.
Thats when the jews tried to sink a US ship and it was no accident either.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/06/07/alan-hart-israels-attack-on-the-uss-liberty-the-full-story/

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ussliberty.html

[Buster's Uncle]

Uh, von - this latest tear you're on, this time about Jews, is tough to tell from actual anti-Semitism.

What have I told you repeatedly about racial talk?  I don't want you to defend why you talk that rude way on any given racial issue; I want you to get your head straight, smarten up your way of putting it -if you're not an actual racist- and stop making this whole room uncomfortable.

Protip: blaming it on liberals on political correctness, blaming them for ANYthing , is the SECOND-fastest way to lose points here.  The first is crude racial talk, which you've been dancing up way too close to repeatedly.  I happen to more or less agree with what you're saying about Israel being a lightning rod for trouble in the Middle East, but I find your way of putting it unconscionably rude.  -Also, stating obvious truths while leaving out other obvious truths that bring honest nuance to the picture.  You want the truth?  Then stop cherry-picking truths and leaving out ones that hurt your simplistic case.

To underline:  It's rude.  We have a style and an atmosphere here, and I need you to check your manners and stop making the rest of us uncomfortable with blunt crudity.  Please.

[vonbach]

Sigh. Its the truth.

[Buster's Uncle]

Siigh.

We can never live in a world where Israel was not attacked hard and repeatedly as soon as it was a thing, and thus, can never know what sort of neighbors the Israelis would have been otherwise.

THAT is also true.

[vonbach]

Siigh.

We can never live in a world where Israel was not attacked hard and repeatedly as soon as it was a thing, and thus, can never know what sort of neighbors the Israelis would have been otherwise.

THAT is also true.

The problem is its not. The Israelis aren't the victims they're the aggressors. The way they treat the Palestinians is abhorrent. They are also doing this with our money and guns and this doesn't exactly make us popular.

[Buster's Uncle]

I'll buy half that - and find the rest naïve and turns-out-not-to-be-the-case.

It IS true.  You bluntly contradict me -RUDE- without pointing out any flaws in my logic or facts.  Time to step up your game, son; this is not only no-class, it's boring.

[vonbach]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/23/israel-gaza-war-crimes-guardian

http://markhumphrys.com/israel.conflict.crimes.html

http://www.mintpressnews.com/israel-threatens-intl-criminal-court-with-retribution-if-war-crime-investigations-continue/201967/

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/palestinians-another-resolution

https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/n-africa/israel/palestine

Here. Have a list of Israeli war crimes.

[Buster's Uncle]

I'm very bored that you know how to find websites and paste a link.  Show me some evidence that you've read and considered all sides and thought for yourself.

-And tell me about your comic-book universe where Israel wasn't attacked every few years for over a decade, starting the day it officially became a nation.  You still haven't defended your contradiction of my observation about alternate history.

[Rusty Edge]

I rarely curse. There was that time a couple of years ago when I was re-baiting somebody's hook after removing a fish, and they managed to jerk on the line and set the hook in my hand.

I know about the USS Liberty. The incident and the aftermath.  From books and internet. The BBC did a show on it, too.

It's the one topic I can't discuss without cursing. That's why I haven't mentioned it here before.



That's why I won't get into it now.

[Rusty Edge]

It seems as if things have developed while I was away. Let me get this straight...

Paris was attacked by Belgians motivated by The Caliphate.
The French retaliated against The Caliphate with air strikes.

The Russians are supporting Assad by bombing the U.S. backed Kurdish insurgents, while claiming to be striking at The Caliphate. 

The US is escalating against The Caliphate.

A Russian fighter/bomber was shot down for violating Turkish air space. A French envoy is trying to smooth things over between them.



I have yet to see the NeoCon vision of democracy spreading across the Middle East, domino style.

[Yitzi]

We had no enemies in the middle east at all until we backed Israel.

We also had no enemies in Europe during WWII until we joined the allies.

[vonbach]

We also had no enemies in Europe during WWII until we joined the allies.

If you want to get into WW2 history fine. FDR did everything he could to help start WW2.
We were an enemy of Germany long before WW2 and we never acted neutral.
Just on another note we were allied with the Russians in WW2. That ended when our
troops actually met Russians. The GI's took one look at the Russians and one look at the Germans
and said "we fought for the wrong side." So the alliance fell apart and the cold war was born.
But its off topic and I'm not in the mood to argue about WW2.

[Yitzi]

Siigh.

We can never live in a world where Israel was not attacked hard and repeatedly as soon as it was a thing, and thus, can never know what sort of neighbors the Israelis would have been otherwise.

Actually, it was attacked hard and repeatedly even before it was a thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots

We also had no enemies in Europe during WWII until we joined the allies.

If you want to get into WW2 history fine. FDR did everything he could to help start WW2.
We were an enemy of Germany long before WW2 and we never acted neutral.
Just on another note we were allied with the Russians in WW2. That ended when our
troops actually met Russians. The GI's took one look at the Russians and one look at the Germans
and said "we fought for the wrong side." So the alliance fell apart and the cold war was born.
But its off topic and I'm not in the mood to argue about WW2.

You have a reliable source for any of this?