Group AAR #2 - Signups / discussion

[ete]

hmm.. -1 Economy is actually a pretty small disadvantage. -1 energy per turn is only noticeable right at the start and even then is not a big deal, and though it forces Wealth alongside FM for +1 eng/square... eh, that's something you're probably wanting most of the time anyway as drones since stacking Indust bonuses is great. I'd want to see more in exchange for even just +1 Planet, which is one of the best +1s available since it dramatically speeds up your early exploration and pod popping. PS is also a much less annoying aversion than Green. Hab bonus is not a big deal imo, unless you get another monsoon start. On the whole it looks like a basically entirely better version of the drones, so I'd prefer some extra penalty.

Ideas: Effic, to force them into Demo/Green earlier? Morale, to blunt their rush and give them a little more worm trouble? Econ to -2, to make +1 eng/square require GA?

[Yitzi]

hmm.. -1 Economy is actually a pretty small disadvantage. -1 energy per turn is only noticeable right at the start and even then is not a big deal, and though it forces Wealth alongside FM for +1 eng/square... eh, that's something you're probably wanting most of the time anyway as drones since stacking Indust bonuses is great. I'd want to see more in exchange for even just +1 Planet, which is one of the best +1s available since it dramatically speeds up your early exploration and pod popping. PS is also a much less annoying aversion than Green. Hab bonus is not a big deal imo, unless you get another monsoon start. On the whole it looks like a basically entirely better version of the drones, so I'd prefer some extra penalty.

Ideas: Effic, to force them into Demo/Green earlier? Morale, to blunt their rush and give them a little more worm trouble? Econ to -2, to make +1 eng/square require GA?

Morale doesn't work thematically.  Effic and -2 ECON (as bad as  ) also are somewhat iffy thematically...

Perhaps negative energy interest (sharing available funds with the lower classes)...what amount of negative interest would (together with -1 ECON) balance +1 PLANET and +2 hab bonus and the aversion switch?

[ete]

ehhhh, negative energy interest is really easy to avoid, just spend down every turn rather than every few turns and you're never going to lose more than a couple of credits per turn even with -100% (assuming here it's applies at end/start of turn, rather than after upkeep? If I'm wrong about that it changes things.).. I guess with the AI running the show some huge energy interest may be a bit of a penalty, but I don't think that'd end up slowing you down much at all since the AI rarely rushes at all efficiently.

Perhaps negative Support? I'm not sure -1 would quite make up for the three boosts, but it's a start?

[Yitzi]

Negative support really doesn't fit thematically either.  Instead, how about we replace it with:

Starts with industrial base and social psych, aversion to Free Market
+2 INDUSTRY, -2 RESEARCH, NODRONE 1 as before, but 75% revolt is removed.
+1 PLANET but -2 POLICE (so no use of police units) and Penalty to Police State.
Lal's hab bonus

So the -2 POLICE and changing aversion to Free Market (so no non-GA +1 energy/square) then pays for +1 PLANET and hab bonus and starting with 2 techs instead of 1.

[ete]

Yes, that seems fair. I'd guess these guys will have a considerably better start than normal Drones thanks to Planet, but loss of ability to +1 eng/square will slow them enough later to counteract it. -2 Police without ability to FM will also slow them a bit before SE techs come along. Which techs would you be starting with? With Cent Eco you'd maybe be in danger of overshadowing the gaians a bit much.

You'll be pretty scary if you find a good tech trading partner, which is your plan I guess .

[Yitzi]

Yes, that seems fair. I'd guess these guys will have a considerably better start than normal Drones thanks to Planet, but loss of ability to +1 eng/square will slow them enough later to counteract it. -2 Police without ability to FM will also slow them a bit before SE techs come along. Which techs would you be starting with?

Industrial Base and Social Psych.

You'll be pretty scary if you find a good tech trading partner, which is your plan I guess .

Of course.  Have you seen the factions the others will be playing?

[Yitzi]

And the faction is attached.  It can use regular Drones graphics.

[ete]

Yes, that seems fair. I'd guess these guys will have a considerably better start than normal Drones thanks to Planet, but loss of ability to +1 eng/square will slow them enough later to counteract it. -2 Police without ability to FM will also slow them a bit before SE techs come along. Which techs would you be starting with?

Industrial Base and Social Psych.

Okay, that seems reasonable.

You'll be pretty scary if you find a good tech trading partner, which is your plan I guess .

Of course.  Have you seen the factions the others will be playing?

I now see why you wanted to wait for others to pick first.. metagaming us all :p.

Okay, I think we're pretty much ready to go. I'll likely launch the game tomorrow, but confirmation from JarlWolf that he's okay with Satori would be good, since I think the Clones are out of the league of the rest of our factions.

I'll include several AI factions, and will set them up to be hopefully at least not a total pushover. I'll try not to Annihilator-kill everyone again though. Totally random start seems to be winning, not my favorite option, but we'll go with it. I did reserve the right to edit AI start locations at least though, and will be at least giving them a few forests to get started.

We'll be using Yitzi's latest patch this time (no more AI freeing factions bug like the one which messed with the last game!) and I'll include a faction bundle in the OP of the new thread with everything you'll need.

Suggestions welcome for map size and options, otherwise I'll probably go middle of the road on most (but low sea).

[Yitzi]

You'll be pretty scary if you find a good tech trading partner, which is your plan I guess .

Of course.  Have you seen the factions the others will be playing?

I now see why you wanted to wait for others to pick first.. metagaming us all :p.

I was actually figuring I'd pick whichever niche was left in terms of both gameplay and theme; I wasn't expecting everybody else to go for techers/energy.

We'll be using Yitzi's latest patch this time (no more AI freeing factions bug like the one which messed with the last game!) and I'll include a faction bundle in the OP of the new thread with everything you'll need.

Standard rules, or are we using some of the alternate rules I enabled?

[ete]

I was actually figuring I'd pick whichever niche was left in terms of both gameplay and theme; I wasn't expecting everybody else to go for techers/energy.

Ah, right. Yea, we all did go with pretty similar things. I wonder if you'll rush for the planetary datalinks, and how willing to trade with you people will be.. I bet whoever starts near you will beg the others not to give you weapons tech.

We'll be using Yitzi's latest patch this time (no more AI freeing factions bug like the one which messed with the last game!) and I'll include a faction bundle in the OP of the new thread with everything you'll need.

Standard rules, or are we using some of the alternate rules I enabled?

I was thinking standard, but if there are a few not-huge changes you've played enough games with to be comfortable recommending I'd be happy to showcase them unless one of the other players objects.

[Yitzi]

I was actually figuring I'd pick whichever niche was left in terms of both gameplay and theme; I wasn't expecting everybody else to go for techers/energy.

Ah, right. Yea, we all did go with pretty similar things. I wonder if you'll rush for the planetary datalinks, and how willing to trade with you people will be.. I bet whoever starts near you will beg the others not to give you weapons tech.

That would sort of depend on our relationship, wouldn't it?

We'll be using Yitzi's latest patch this time (no more AI freeing factions bug like the one which messed with the last game!) and I'll include a faction bundle in the OP of the new thread with everything you'll need.

Standard rules, or are we using some of the alternate rules I enabled?

I was thinking standard, but if there are a few not-huge changes you've played enough games with to be comfortable recommending I'd be happy to showcase them unless one of the other players objects.

Not really, but other people seem to like using drone rule 8 (which essentially means that you can't use specialists to solve your drone problems, except of course by producing psych).

[ete]

Ah, right. Yea, we all did go with pretty similar things. I wonder if you'll rush for the planetary datalinks, and how willing to trade with you people will be.. I bet whoever starts near you will beg the others not to give you weapons tech.

That would sort of depend on our relationship, wouldn't it?

True, but I imagine you getting some good weapons from someone else would allow you to dictate those terms with a lot of force. Probably along the lines of tech or die .

Not really, but other people seem to like using drone rule 8 (which essentially means that you can't use specialists to solve your drone problems, except of course by producing psych).

I'm happy to use that. JarlWolf, BlueFlux?

For reference:

8:  If a base is all drones, and some are turned into specialists, an equal number will be turned into superdrones.  If a base is all superdrones and it is supposed to have even more drones than that, "phantom drones" will be created.  Superdrones and phantom drones do increase the number of talents needed to prevent drone riots.  (Thus, there is no way to stop drone riots other than psych, drone control facilities, and police.)  If a base is all talents and is supposed to have more talents, it will create "phantom talents", allowing a specialist base to still have golden ages.

[Yitzi]

Ah, right. Yea, we all did go with pretty similar things. I wonder if you'll rush for the planetary datalinks, and how willing to trade with you people will be.. I bet whoever starts near you will beg the others not to give you weapons tech.

That would sort of depend on our relationship, wouldn't it?

True, but I imagine you getting some good weapons from someone else would allow you to dictate those terms with a lot of force. Probably along the lines of tech or die .

Question: Are we playing with cooperative victory?

[ete]

I think.. roleplay it. If you feel your character would accept sharing the future with someone, even if it means compromising on their ideals to some extent, then yes. If you think your character would break longstanding agreements in order to bring forth the world they want, then do that.

I guess unless you're sure your character would, at some point in the future if they ended up in a position of power, decide to turn on their allies and expand, don't claim a coop victory. So.. only if you have strong reasons to honour treaties (e.g. shared history, both being of great use to the other) and have been acting in a way that indicates you'd stick to them even at your disadvantage for the game.

[Flux]

I think.. roleplay it. If you feel your character would accept sharing the future with someone, even if it means compromising on their ideals to some extent, then yes. If you think your character would break longstanding agreements in order to bring forth the world they want, then do that.

Yeah
I mean, youth is great and all but we aren't very warlike. One of our core principles is caring is sharing, so others can remain on Chiron. 
Hmph. Now I wish I had the leader come from Luxembourg in his datalink. Then he could say "We want to remain what we are" like he was bringing the motto back from his homeland.
Also, I'm okay with the drone rules. Normally I have a rec commons in every base anyway.