Author Topic: One City Challenge on higher levels  (Read 2240 times)

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Offline WeMustConsentAI

Re: One City Challenge on higher levels
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2021, 03:10:02 PM »
Planet Buster: (again, absolutely no words)

Offline WeMustConsentAI

Re: One City Challenge on higher levels
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2021, 04:48:13 PM »
Also important in any case is directly reducing Drone activity via other means. These are the bonuses...

Recreation Commons & Hologram Theatre: -2

Gene-jack Factory: +1

Punishment Sphere: -255

Research Hospital and Nano-hospital: -1

The Longevity Vaccine: -1 if Simple/Green Economy = True, -2 if Planned Economy = True, 0 if Both Statements = False

The Planetary Transit System: -1 if either Base Size = 3 or Base Size < 3 is "true", 0 if Both Statements = False

POLICE...

-5 = Two extra drones for each military unit away from territory
-4 =Extra drone for each military unit away from territory
-3 = Extra drone if more than one military unit away from territory
-2 =Cannot use military units as police. No nerve stapling.
-1 =One police unit allowed. No nerve stapling.
0 = Can use one military unit as police
+1 = Can use up to 2 military units as police
+2 = Can use up to 3 military units as police!
+3 = 3 units as police. Police effect doubled!!

If POLICE > -2 is "true", then *2 "cop" effect if Non-Lethal Methods Special Ability = "true"; otherwise, no effect

Offline WeMustConsentAI

Re: One City Challenge on higher levels
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2021, 04:50:11 PM »
Also important in any case is directly reducing Drone activity via other means. These are the bonuses...

Recreation Commons & Hologram Theatre: -2

Gene-jack Factory: +1

Punishment Sphere: -255

Research Hospital and Nano-hospital: -1

The Longevity Vaccine: -1 if Simple/Green Economy = True, -2 if Planned Economy = True, 0 if Both Statements = False

The Planetary Transit System: -1 if either Base Size = 3 or Base Size < 3 is "true", 0 if Both Statements = False

POLICE...

-5 = Two extra drones for each military unit away from territory
-4 = Extra drone for each military unit away from territory
-3 = Extra drone if more than one military unit away from territory
-2 = Cannot use military units as police. No nerve stapling.
-1 = One police unit allowed. No nerve stapling.
0 = Can use one military unit as police
+1 = Can use up to 2 military units as police
+2 = Can use up to 3 military units as police!
+3 = 3 units as police. Police effect doubled!!

If POLICE > -2 is "true", then *2 "cop" effect if Non-Lethal Methods Special Ability = "true"; otherwise, no effect

For The Longevity Vaccine; if the last statement is "true", then +50% to Economy for the city that it's built in.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: One City Challenge on higher levels
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2021, 06:22:15 PM »
originally intended;
I think that concept is partly nonsense.  The reality of a game production as long and complex as SMAC, is that at some point they ran out of monetary justification to continue tinkering with it.  This isn't authorial intent, this is authorial limit as a matter of production resources in the real world.  They couldn't sit around polishing things for another person-year they way I did, or spread that effort over an additional 2.5 years.  They had to do other things to keep the Firaxis studio doors open.  I just lived out of my car with my dog and ate my life, making $0.

We can try to extrapolate original authorial intent on the basis of internal evidence.  In some cases we might perceive bright lines for this.  In other cases we will see mud, because there were a lot of people working on the project, and a lot of production realities happening to push things in different directions.  If you've got multiple people in a production pushing for or against a game feature, as well as other production collisions generating unwanted bugs, I see no obvious basis for deciding "intent".

For instance, why turn off Global Energy Theory and Morgan's very short voice acting for that?  I turned it back on.  Did they think that Morgan's quote was too short, compared to other voice acting snippets, to be worthy of public observation?  And even if they did, who cares?  Their original intent in that regard, would probably be wrong, as weighed against the whole production.  I'm certain that the quote, as is, is in character for Morgan. 

But at the same time, "Energy, is the currency of the future" just doesn't say very much.  It's kinda like WELL DUH as far as the rest of the game goes, not so impactful.  But why should impactfulness be the reason to cut content?  Probably what really happened, is they had some bug, and they worked around it by turning off something in the tech tree.  Some kind of production history, a series of accidents and missteps which result in this little piece of content being shipped, but not turned on.

Now of course, there are other areas of my modding that are explicitly against "original intent", because the original intent sucks.  I mean if you want to experience the Aliens according to original intent, that's fine, and there's nothing wrong with people doing that.  But they suck, and should be modded to something that doesn't suck.  That's my authorial intent, clearly.  Originalism is not the metric of the good.

I think some of my modding, has refined a trajectory that the game was originally on.  Other things I've done have repurposed the intents, without violating them.  Still others, they put bad stuff in, and I fixed it, best I could.

So what I've done, is a mixed bag.  I always tell people to play the original game first.  Otherwise, how would they know that I actually improved anything?  Worse, something I couldn't fix, they might blame me instead of the original game.


Offline WeMustConsentAI

Re: One City Challenge on higher levels
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2021, 06:36:53 PM »
Never mind, new rule...

1 City Challenge on Difficulty > 0 can now be played with Rare Native Life Forms until a new way of keeping up in the tech race is discovered. Iron Man is still required.

Offline WeMustConsentAI

Re: One City Challenge on higher levels
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2021, 08:14:00 PM »
Update to everything: Now I've even tried getting rid of my paltry little Scout Patrol; and building a better defender. I did not offer any techs to anyone but Miriam, even in what was otherwise a "fair trade". I built a Command Center to ensure that my one initial defender had decent Morale. Sadly, I still couldn't keep up. Early wars, still occurred on top of all that. Therefore, you must adopt the Free Market Economy. Yes, the PLANET & POLICE penalties are now the better tradeoff this time. It's even better to take the hit to your relations with Deirdre. (Her conventional forces are usually weak anyway; and the Morganites can likely just use Probe Teams with almost as little trouble as Miriam, thanks to the former's immensely fattened wallet. [For the latter, it's because of an otherwise useless boost to PROBE.])

If something still goes completely wrong, I'll return to frustration and/or the re/consideration of "other" strategies.

Offline WeMustConsentAI

Re: One City Challenge on higher levels
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2021, 11:24:41 PM »
Update: worked until the 22nd century. Either Boreholes, or... ASKING...

Offline WeMustConsentAI

Re: One City Challenge on higher levels
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2021, 02:21:56 AM »
Another update: Now using Sparse Cloud Cover & Strong Erosive Forces to give the AIs less of an advantage to their own building efforts. Otherwise, everything else is basically the same. I miraculously got The Borehole Cluster on a 1/2-70% Ocean Coverage, Standard Sized & Average Native Living Map. (The map, in question, somehow ended up being a bunch of rather small islands only.)

As crazy as this sounds, my strategy is now working for Specialist Difficulty. (I'm still a bit uneasy about Talent.) Gaia's Stepchildren have even now been eradicated. That leaves the Hive, the Peacekeepers, the Morganites, the Spartans, the pesky Believers and myself. I've attained peace with the Hive, the Peacekeepers & the Morganites.

Offline WeMustConsentAI

Re: One City Challenge on higher levels
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2021, 03:01:43 AM »
Now that I’ve perfected my 1-city strategy on Citizen, I was wondering if anyone had any interest in trying it on a harder level. I likely won’t be able to replicate my 11K+ VPs mark anytime soon; so for now, I’d like to stick to a challenge that most Alpha Centauri players don’t really touch on.

Here are the rules...

1. Iron Man
2. Legal game copies only
3. Proof of your scores and strategies
4. No Time Warp (I.e. can’t use Advanced Starts)
5. No Scenario Editor, except for fairly-assembled custom maps (save them as .MP files!)
6. Regular scoring parameters only
7. No Rare Native Life Forms, unless specifically aiming for complete world domination
8. Only the Diplomatic & Economic Victories can be disabled.
9. No ridiculous map sizes/dimensions/dimension discrepancies, except crazy small for the military victory
10. Don’t brag. This game’s RNG is more brutal than most wish to realize. I’m here to give way unto the discussion of general strategies, not for anyone to gloat about any particular path to victory.
11. If pre-made map, then no edits allowed
12. Regular game’s factions only; Progenitors are strictly forbidden!

Factions...

Believers: your only hope is for the University to be close by so that you can steal the tech needed for a non-diplomatic victory. You must get The Planetary Data-links at any cost. Do not even think about choosing this faction otherwise.

University: sitting ducks for Drones and enemy Probe Teams early on; otherwise, just what exactly is there not to like about this faction? They’ll decimate anything in their path in the hands of a solidly experienced human player.

Peacekeepers: In a One City Challenge, the Diplomatic Victory just won’t work. This makes this faction’s x2 UN Votes lose most of their meaning. Otherwise, these guys are likely the safest for a One City Challenge overall. The only downside is that you can never be a Police State, making early to mid game wars a liability.

Morganites: Naturally, I dismiss these guys for good reason. They can’t possibly pop-boom in the early to mid game. However, you need Energy that’s not getting lost to Inefficiency to ever be able to achieve anything at all. This rule of thumb can make this faction’s extra ECONOMY ups a major help, particularly in the One City Challenge.

Gaia’s Stepchildren: Even more important than producing Energy and/or having a low Labs Cost, the Energy must never be lost to Inefficiency. Also, having only a single city means that interruptions from literally any source can totally shut down all of your production. In other words, the extra PLANET and EFFICIENCY from these folks would help if it otherwise meant that then keeping up with everyone else could really happen because of it. Sadly, it can’t. Save this faction for regular play-throughs and other challenge runs; no good here.

Spartans: these guys mean nothing unless you want to conquer the world, especially in the One City Challenge. Otherwise, give them a pass. They’re no good.

Hive: not being a Democracy whatsoever is going to be a major liability no matter how you slice it. Even getting to be a Police State and have a Planned Economy without drawbacks won’t really help matters. So unless you plan for world conquest, then don’t play as these guys either. Other than that, they are just not any good.

Thus, we narrow down our choices to just the following...

1. University
2. Peacekeepers
3. Morganites

Overall, the University will always be the easiest to play. They can do anything that’ll ever be useful in this game. The Peacekeepers can sometimes have trouble waging wars, but aren’t too bad otherwise. The Morganites are a big magnet for military conquest if a human player doesn’t move with caution. At least it can still work if you’re careful, though...

However, my best 1-city scores have been achieved with the Peacekeepers, and especially the University. So the best decision therefore, is either one or the other. Here are the exact specifics...

University: once you become tall enough to make Drones and enemy Probe Teams a thing of the past, you win.

Peacekeepers: the extra Talents and UN Votes can help if you’d like to win peacefully, but they tend to lose meaning as you advance through the challenge.

Now that we’ve chosen which factions are optimal, let’s take a look at the Societal Models...

Starting off, these are the Political Systems...

Frontier: the default, excluding Yang

Police State: Yang’s default/agenda/best choice, and Lal’s aversion; otherwise, only use this to wage small-scale wars.

Democratic: best choice ever unless fighting a war, Yang’s aversion and Lal’s agenda

Theocracy: worst possible choice, Zak’s aversion and Miriam’s agenda; avoid it, at any cost

Moving on to the Economic Systems...

Simple: the default

Free Market: not that great unless you’re playing this challenge as Morgan, his preference and Deirdre’s aversion; -5 POLICE makes waging wars completely laughable, and the nasty -3 PLANET will absolutely cripple any reasonable attempt at keeping Chiron quiet

Planned: need to use this in any game at least once unless you’re Morgan; in which case, it is simply not a choice.

Green: another excellent choice, especially when Chiron gets too suspicious of the civilized world to ever be completely stopped outright (beware the -2 GROWTH, however!)

Values Prioritization Systems...

Survival: the default

Power: don’t use this unless you have The Cloning Vats; even then, only use this to wage a war.

Wealth: Sparta’s aversion, and no direct RESEARCH/EFFICIENCY bonus; every INDUSTRY + helps however, especially here, and Morgan can make excellent use of the ECONOMY boost.

Knowledge: Miriam’s aversion; otherwise, undoubtedly the best; especially with the Hunter Seeker Algorithm Secret Project

Far Future Society options...

None: the default, and the way of knowing that a nation is not quite at that point yet...

Cybernetic: undoubtedly the best choice; The Network Backbone cancels the gruesome -3 POLICE outright, making this choice have no real disadvantages.

Eudaemonic: kinda silly by the time you get it; other INDUSTRY +’s are good enough as it is; and it’s near impossible to get any taller. Energy lost to Inefficiency doesn’t help either.

Thought Control: the -3 SUPPORT is crippling, so don’t pick this one unless you can get The Cloning Vats. Even then, you’ll only ever be using this to fight any late-game wars.

More on the other specifics in a bit...

Slight correction: the Free Market Economy is required to win this game at all on the higher levels. Sadly, I had to learn this; the hard way. (That’s another reason to not play Deirdre.)
Therefore, it’s better to suppress Drones peacefully. [At least being Democratic prevents all of that extra cash from otherwise going down the toilet...]

In the long run, this makes having the +4/+5 ECONOMY from Eudaemonia a more crucial choice than one may believe. (Technically though, having the decreased Labs Costs from Cyber-net-ism is still just as viable. Eudaemonia’s -2 MORALE is offset by having your cities equipped with the Crèches anyway. The same goes for Wealth Values, yielding that greatly coveted +5 ECONOMY with surprisingly few disadvantages; as long as your a Democracy & build those Crèches...)

Meanwhile, the Cybernetic Future has no real drawbacks at all if you can get ahold of The Network Backbone.

As crazy as this sounds, having a decreased PLANET Score makes the Chiron Ecosystem more used to your presence; making Wild Mind Worms less, rather than more, of an issue.

Offline WeMustConsentAI

Re: One City Challenge on higher levels
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2021, 03:14:19 AM »
Now that I’ve perfected my 1-city strategy on Citizen, I was wondering if anyone had any interest in trying it on a harder level. I likely won’t be able to replicate my 11K+ VPs mark anytime soon; so for now, I’d like to stick to a challenge that most Alpha Centauri players don’t really touch on.

Here are the rules...

1. Iron Man
2. Legal game copies only
3. Proof of your scores and strategies
4. No Time Warp (I.e. can’t use Advanced Starts)
5. No Scenario Editor, except for fairly-assembled custom maps (save them as .MP files!)
6. Regular scoring parameters only
7. No Rare Native Life Forms, unless specifically aiming for complete world domination
8. Only the Diplomatic & Economic Victories can be disabled.
9. No ridiculous map sizes/dimensions/dimension discrepancies, except crazy small for the military victory
10. Don’t brag. This game’s RNG is more brutal than most wish to realize. I’m here to give way unto the discussion of general strategies, not for anyone to gloat about any particular path to victory.
11. If pre-made map, then no edits allowed
12. Regular game’s factions only; Progenitors are strictly forbidden!

Factions...

Believers: your only hope is for the University to be close by so that you can steal the tech needed for a non-diplomatic victory. You must get The Planetary Data-links at any cost. Do not even think about choosing this faction otherwise.

University: sitting ducks for Drones and enemy Probe Teams early on; otherwise, just what exactly is there not to like about this faction? They’ll decimate anything in their path in the hands of a solidly experienced human player.

Peacekeepers: In a One City Challenge, the Diplomatic Victory just won’t work. This makes this faction’s x2 UN Votes lose most of their meaning. Otherwise, these guys are likely the safest for a One City Challenge overall. The only downside is that you can never be a Police State, making early to mid game wars a liability.

Morganites: Naturally, I dismiss these guys for good reason. They can’t possibly pop-boom in the early to mid game. However, you need Energy that’s not getting lost to Inefficiency to ever be able to achieve anything at all. This rule of thumb can make this faction’s extra ECONOMY ups a major help, particularly in the One City Challenge.

Gaia’s Stepchildren: Even more important than producing Energy and/or having a low Labs Cost, the Energy must never be lost to Inefficiency. Also, having only a single city means that interruptions from literally any source can totally shut down all of your production. In other words, the extra PLANET and EFFICIENCY from these folks would help if it otherwise meant that then keeping up with everyone else could really happen because of it. Sadly, it can’t. Save this faction for regular play-throughs and other challenge runs; no good here.

Spartans: these guys mean nothing unless you want to conquer the world, especially in the One City Challenge. Otherwise, give them a pass. They’re no good.

Hive: not being a Democracy whatsoever is going to be a major liability no matter how you slice it. Even getting to be a Police State and have a Planned Economy without drawbacks won’t really help matters. So unless you plan for world conquest, then don’t play as these guys either. Other than that, they are just not any good.

Thus, we narrow down our choices to just the following...

1. University
2. Peacekeepers
3. Morganites

Overall, the University will always be the easiest to play. They can do anything that’ll ever be useful in this game. The Peacekeepers can sometimes have trouble waging wars, but aren’t too bad otherwise. The Morganites are a big magnet for military conquest if a human player doesn’t move with caution. At least it can still work if you’re careful, though...

However, my best 1-city scores have been achieved with the Peacekeepers, and especially the University. So the best decision therefore, is either one or the other. Here are the exact specifics...

University: once you become tall enough to make Drones and enemy Probe Teams a thing of the past, you win.

Peacekeepers: the extra Talents and UN Votes can help if you’d like to win peacefully, but they tend to lose meaning as you advance through the challenge.

Now that we’ve chosen which factions are optimal, let’s take a look at the Societal Models...

Starting off, these are the Political Systems...

Frontier: the default, excluding Yang

Police State: Yang’s default/agenda/best choice, and Lal’s aversion; otherwise, only use this to wage small-scale wars.

Democratic: best choice ever unless fighting a war, Yang’s aversion and Lal’s agenda

Theocracy: worst possible choice, Zak’s aversion and Miriam’s agenda; avoid it, at any cost

Moving on to the Economic Systems...

Simple: the default

Free Market: not that great unless you’re playing this challenge as Morgan, his preference and Deirdre’s aversion; -5 POLICE makes waging wars completely laughable, and the nasty -3 PLANET will absolutely cripple any reasonable attempt at keeping Chiron quiet

Planned: need to use this in any game at least once unless you’re Morgan; in which case, it is simply not a choice.

Green: another excellent choice, especially when Chiron gets too suspicious of the civilized world to ever be completely stopped outright (beware the -2 GROWTH, however!)

Values Prioritization Systems...

Survival: the default

Power: don’t use this unless you have The Cloning Vats; even then, only use this to wage a war.

Wealth: Sparta’s aversion, and no direct RESEARCH/EFFICIENCY bonus; every INDUSTRY + helps however, especially here, and Morgan can make excellent use of the ECONOMY boost.

Knowledge: Miriam’s aversion; otherwise, undoubtedly the best; especially with the Hunter Seeker Algorithm Secret Project

Far Future Society options...

None: the default, and the way of knowing that a nation is not quite at that point yet...

Cybernetic: undoubtedly the best choice; The Network Backbone cancels the gruesome -3 POLICE outright, making this choice have no real disadvantages.

Eudaemonic: kinda silly by the time you get it; other INDUSTRY +’s are good enough as it is; and it’s near impossible to get any taller. Energy lost to Inefficiency doesn’t help either.

Thought Control: the -3 SUPPORT is crippling, so don’t pick this one unless you can get The Cloning Vats. Even then, you’ll only ever be using this to fight any late-game wars.

More on the other specifics in a bit...

Slight correction: the Free Market Economy is required to win this game at all on the higher levels. Sadly, I had to learn this; the hard way. (That’s another reason to not play Deirdre.)
Therefore, it’s better to suppress Drones peacefully. [At least being Democratic prevents all of that extra cash from otherwise going down the toilet...]

In the long run, this makes having the +4/+5 ECONOMY from Eudaemonia a more crucial choice than one may believe. (Technically though, having the decreased Labs Costs from Cyber-net-ism is still just as viable. Eudaemonia’s -2 MORALE is offset by having your cities equipped with the Crèches anyway. The same goes for Wealth Values, yielding that greatly coveted +5 ECONOMY with surprisingly few disadvantages; as long as your a Democracy & build those Crèches...)

Meanwhile, the Cybernetic Future has no real drawbacks at all if you can get ahold of The Network Backbone.

As crazy as this sounds, having a decreased PLANET Score makes the Chiron Ecosystem more used to your presence; making Wild Mind Worms less, rather than more, of an issue.

Therefore, both Planned & Green Economics become even more worthless than usual. This means that early to mid game pop boom can no longer work regardless.

Offline WeMustConsentAI

Re: One City Challenge on higher levels
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2021, 03:17:20 AM »
So yeah, a Green Economy would now have only the +2 EFFICIENCY for the largest empires going for it; Cloning Vats or not. Otherwise, it’s now completely worthless.

 

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