Probe teams.

[vonbach]

Maybe I'm playing using them wrong but probe teams seem fairly useless. I've been experimenting with them
and after awhile the probe team subversion costs just become insane. Probably when they are hitting +2 Probe.
Any hints on strategy with them?

[Mart]

SMACX has too much energy in fact, there is this snowball effect. So something costing more is a good thing.
In late game you can get income in thousands when you do certain strategies.

Probe teams are in large part good for:
- getting technologies from opponents
- preventing opponents to get techs from you (by stealing them)
- prevent other probe team actions in bases, just your probe team must be defeated before the enemy can do their stuff.
- special actions, like free captured leader
- in field, they can be solution for zones-of-control, since they do not respect them, and other units can always enter a tile where there is your unit.
- other probe team actions, like destroy facility (e.g. perimeter defense before attack), etc.
- have I forgotten that!!! Infiltration of other factions!

[vonbach]

So basically what i've been using them for all along ok.
i just wanted to see if I could get something else out of them, thanks.

[Yitzi]

So basically what i've been using them for all along ok.
i just wanted to see if I could get something else out of them, thanks.

Subversion/mind control can be used sometimes...but if they've got +2 PROBE, or are close to their HQ, or are significantly richer than you, it probably isn't worth it most of the time.

[vonbach]

Thanks for the replies all.

[Nexii]

The main purpose is tech steal.  They remain a constant mineral cost while techs only go up in labs as the game goes on.

Secondary purpose is infiltrate (which admittedly only has to be done once).  This will tell you if a faction is worth surprise attacking or if a war would bog down and hurt you more than help you (by troop count).  As well you can know where troops are stationed if in a base.

Early on and for subversion, I'd agree they are a bit weak.  But they have to be in a sense, otherwise they'd negate the purpose of military units.

And of course since the AI massively cheats for subversion costs, you should keep one in any border bases especially while at war (unless at +3 PROBE or have HSA)

[vonbach]

Most of the time I don't need to tech steal. I'm almost always ahead of the AI just by the sheer size of my faction and the research I produce. I tried the +2 probe subversion game and it is interesting. One thing I have noticed is the AI just seems to produce itself to death. I'll subvert bases with 15 units in them and little else. I'm tempted to give all the AI factions a +2 support just to see if it makes them tougher.

[Nexii]

Yea, for sure probes aren't as quite as important when you're in the lead.  Though preventing tech steals with them also helps you keep that lead.  The AI doesn't really try to tech steal all that aggressively, however.

[Yitzi]

The main purpose is tech steal.  They remain a constant mineral cost while techs only go up in labs as the game goes on.

Secondary purpose is infiltrate (which admittedly only has to be done once).  This will tell you if a faction is worth surprise attacking or if a war would bog down and hurt you more than help you (by troop count).  As well you can know where troops are stationed if in a base.

Early on and for subversion, I'd agree they are a bit weak.  But they have to be in a sense, otherwise they'd negate the purpose of military units.

They're also a lot more useful for subversion against enemies far from the HQ.

[Dio]

I know a few things about the behavior of AI Probe Team Actions. The first involves the fact that the AI never destroys the facilities of bases that remain size three or lower. The AI instead attempts to incite Drone Riots at the base. The second includes the fact that AI with a pacifist Fight Interest (-1) never attempt to commit genetic warfare operations. The factions that commit these operations must fulfill a series of status checks with the other faction.

[bvanevery]

And of course since the AI massively cheats for subversion costs, you should keep one in any border bases especially while at war (unless at +3 PROBE or have HSA)

Is cheating the problem, with the overpowered AI probe teams?  When invading an AI, I've found it'll often just do lots of probe teams and SLAM me with them.  Over and over again they are successful doing the same things, like destroying my base facilities.  Or stealing every tech I've got.  From the same base.  Like the whole idea of the high security interlock getting better, doesn't seem to apply to them.  If the enemy has any money, they'll mind control the crap out of everything and everyone in front of them.  So I'm really, really scared, or bored, with wars where I don't have a pile of defensive probe teams with me.  It's really really boring because you have to make twice as many units to have a war.

On the positive side, I've learned from the AI's playbook.  Now I slam my piles of probe teams into AI bases, wrecking Yang's perimeter defenses for instance.  They mostly live through it, no matter how much havoc and mayhem they do to the same base.