Post by: Sigma on July 19, 2013, 02:19:15 PM
EDIT: I've modified this post from its original form.
EDIT2: I have uploaded these factions to the AC2 Wiki, with my page here:
Sigma's Factions (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Category:Sigma%27s_factions)
I am in the process of creating pages for the .txt files.
PROGRESS REPORT:
Text Files: Complete
Rough Graphics: 6/7
Finished Graphics: 0/7
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I almost can't believe I found this board. A SMAC forum-- and an active one at that-- rooted around modding and customization. I'm in.
I need some help with a faction set that I've been cooking up. My goal is to create a set of factions in the spirit of the original Alpha Centauri but with a different spin on them. Overarchingly, they need to be ideologically coherent, but should avoid representing subcultures the way that the Alien Crossfire factions do. The secondary goal is that each faction needs to represent a different vision of mankind's future. In a fully fleshed out game, this would lead each faction to be able to win in their own unique way, but unless/until I learn Assembly that's not going to happen, so I need to focus on the spirit of the idea.
COMPLETE FACTIONS
The Technocrat Foundation
A bit derivative of the University, but for good reason; Zacharov did it best and why mess with perfection? I reduced the research bonus by 1 because the Efficiency bonus and immunity to Efficiency penalties would more than offset it. The University's probe penalty has been replaced with a penalty to Growth, as a society so heavily rooted in computer science would have better network security than Zacharov's vision of a worldwide college town; moreover Probe penalties are fairly toothless in a game where the Hunter Seeker Algorithm exists. I could use a better explanation for the Growth penalty apart from the CyberCon's "how is babby formed?" excuse. The leader is inspired by the Russian philosopher Nicholai Fyodorov, who believed that the ultimate aim of science should be the unification of mankind against the "blind-force" of nature, and was one of the first transhumanists.[/i]
Sons of the Advent
The one faction from SMAC that I've never played is the Believers, because I can't bring myself to sympathize with her, or be entertained by her philosophy the way that I am with Yang, the jolliest tyrant. Not that I'm anti-religion, but rather that Miriam's version seems particularly poisonous and lended too easily to have her be the villain. With the Sons of the Advent, I wanted to create a religious faction that was potentially sympathetic. The key point of reference is Dune, particularly the Fremen, who viewed their lifeless wasteland as their holy land. Similarly Brother Joaquin and his followers see Planet as a promised land that needs to be cared for, hence the Planet bonus. The Economy and Industry penalties seem self explanatory, and lead the Pilgrims well away from a Development based, and rather one based on survival and conquest (again, invoking Herbert's Fremen). This is further encouraged by giving them Impunity to Fundamentalism, which turns that from being one of the worst overall social options to maybe the strongest for this particular faction.[/i]
Post by: JarlWolf on July 19, 2013, 04:22:57 PM
Looks around*
Welcome to the AC2 Forum!
Right, now that your officially welcomed, I will state outright that I am others are willing to help you. However, I have to ask, do you have some pictures of leaders and bases you have in mind? We can get you started on that if you want.
Your factions seem very well rooted in Sci Fi culture and concepts, which is rather interesting. Josef Federov's faction seems sort of like a [progeny of unmarried parents] child of the University and Cybernetic Consciousness in gameplay, but obviously you have more of a bio-mechanical leaning then just purely cybernetic.
And as for the Sons of Advent, they seem like a fundamentalist militant faction, with their ideal/religion being that of planet itself. Reminds me of Planet Cult a little bit but these guys seem to be less focused around a prophet centered faith and have more similarities to a Pagan like/ Animist style cult no?
House Satori almost strikes me as a sort of Guild, a collective of merchants/aristocrats as opposed to the conglomerate dictatorship that the Morganites are. Which can be rather interesting, but the stats need to be refined. Concept will be fleshed out later though so we'll focus on what we have for now.
Also on your "Peacekeepers" faction, you mention they are more of a "Empire" like form of the Peacekeepers. So I am guessing they are somewhat more nationalist (in the sense of how they run their faction) as opposed to "international humanitarianism"?
If that's the case a name for them: Humanity's Guardsmen. You get a general non subculture term, but you could also at the same time allude to the Bolsheviks and other fronts/nation that have used to terms before that fought for egalitarian causes.
Again, let us know your concepts on what you want leaders and bases to look like or resemble and other things and we'll get you started. I can do a sort of brief look based on your source of inspiration and see if there is matching structures, but a direct idea will help quicken the search.
Post by: Sigma on July 19, 2013, 05:42:50 PM
The Technocrats aren't actually biomechanical, though their goals embrace all branches of science. The biggest inspiration by far is Hannu Rajaneimi's novel The Quantum Thief and its sequel, The Fractal Prince, which everyone here should definitely read. In those books the antagonists (more or less) are a group called Sobornost, which is comprised of humans who have uploaded their minds into a massive, solar system spanning computer network, and can copy themselves and other uploaded minds basically at will, a process which creates independent digital minds called gogols. It's through Rajaneimi's books that I started reading about Nicholai Fyodorov, since the Sobornost Founders originated with a political movement called Federovism. Anyway in Rajaneimi's books, Sobornost follows what they call "The Great Common Task" (also borrowed from Fyodorov), which involves uploading all of humanity, including everyone who has ever died, into computer networks and basically creating a whole new universe within those networks. On the outside, then, the Technocrats can be viewed as villains, as it would appear that they want to replace all of humanity with computers, but their ideology can also be viewed much more benevolently, as they follow the original Fedorov's goal of using science to defeat death and disunity.
The Pilgrim's would have a messianic angle if the game's mechanics in anyway would facilitate that, but you're largely correct. They aren't tree huggers in the same way that the Gaians are, but they do have a profound reverence and awe for the planet. Brother Joaquin isn't advertised as being a prophet or anything-- he was a lapsed muslim who rediscovered his faith in a divine power during the voyage, and sought to forge ahead with a new belief structure.
House Satori is absolutely a Guild type faction. That's in large part why I don't want to just slap a +1 Economy booster to their profile. Morgan justifies that because his role is that of monopolizing all commercial goods on Planet. House Satori's goal is to monopolize commerce and trade, so that no matter what kind of business you are doing, at some point Satori has gets a slice. Hence the bonuses to Commerce and Interest.
One of the big inspirations for House Satori is the Qeng Ho from Vernor Vinge's A Deepness in the Sky. The Qeng Ho (pronounced "Cheng Ho") are a civilization of merchants from a setting where there is no faster than light travel, so it takes hundreds or thousands of years to navigate between customer worlds. What ends up happening is a Qeng Ho captain named Pham Nuwen sees the potential of the Qeng Ho to be more than just peddlers and uses their trade networks to try and unite human civilization and prevent the continuous cycles of planets falling back into dark ages and being raised back up. The idea of House Satori is similar-- they see trade and commerce as more than just a way to make money, but as a method by which disparate parts of humanity can be brought together. This conflicts with Morgan's ideology, which seems not to care at all what happens to everyone else so long as he stays in business.
Here is what I have drafted so far:
LEADER: {Atsumi Satori}
BACKGROUND: {Japan, Unity Financial Consultant}
AGENDA: {Economic expansion}
TECH: {Select 1}
+2 PROBE: {Extensive information network}
-1 MORALE: {Averse to direct combat}
-1 SUPPORT: {Resources diverted to economic ventures}
Energy reserves gain +5% interest per turn (Commerce, 2)
Incresed commerce rate {Experienced traders and merchants} (Interest, 5)
{May not use Police State Politics.}
It's been a while since I messed with Commerce or Interest; how would these numbers impacts the faction's performance?
For the fourth and fifth faction, I may not have been clear; the Peacekeepers/Alliance/Whatever aren't the same as the Objectivists/Bolsheviks that I'm theorizing. I don't particularly care for the name "Guardsman" because it sounds like a military force rather than a whole organization.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 19, 2013, 05:50:49 PM
We'll be glad to help you learn how to do as much on the art end as you care to learn, when you're ready.
Post by: Sigma on July 19, 2013, 06:02:56 PM
EDIT: I'm writing up the House Satori txt but I've got another roadblock, namely that I don't know what title to give their leader. I'm tentatively going for Lady, to exemplify Satori's somewhat aristocratic aspirations, but that doesn't do much to invoke their commercial themes. However something like CEO doesn't work either because they aren't a corporation and that seems kind of mundane.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 19, 2013, 06:15:06 PM
Post by: Sigma on July 19, 2013, 06:23:13 PM
Guildmaster?That is an excellent suggestion.
Post by: JarlWolf on July 19, 2013, 06:39:27 PM
(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m494/JarlWolf/SonsofAdventleader_zpsae2551e1.png)
Hmm... for the Peacekeeper types... How about The Republic of Humanity? Or the Federation of Mankind.
Post by: Sigma on July 19, 2013, 06:48:48 PM
Hows this for the face of Brother Joaquin el-Kadiz? Also I suggest switching el to Al. Arabic surnames are descriptions of their status and family relation. Joaquin Al'Kadiz would be Joaquin son of Kadiz. If Al was Bin instead, he'd be father of.Good suggestion for the name. I'm kind of trying to avoid the whole turban/Jesus figure thing with Joaquin though. The name Joaquin Al'Kadiz is supposed to invoke a coming together of two divisive cultures (Christianity and Islam) to create something wholy new for the new world. Joaquin doesn't see himself as a messiah figure anyway (which may be the point!) so he wouldn't want to evoke that sort of iconography. You see of course my dilemma then. I'm trying to use imagery that does not exactly exist in abundance in science fiction.
(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m494/JarlWolf/SonsofAdventleader_zpsae2551e1.png)
Hmm... for the Peacekeeper types... How about The Republic of Humanity? Or the Federation of Mankind.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 19, 2013, 06:51:40 PM
Post by: JarlWolf on July 19, 2013, 07:09:40 PM
(http://coolvibe.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Portrait-Anthony-Scime-Monk-of-Telrena-992x644.jpg)
That and his eyes have a purple tinge to them: which gives the impression he has been affected by prolonged exposure to Chironian fungus, which ;cha; having been born or exposed in fungus as a child had purple eyes. And so do people with prolonged exposure to fungus do.
Post by: Sigma on July 19, 2013, 07:33:34 PM
Hmm... how about this? It's a bit less "noble" looking but more of a humble, if somewhat mysterious look to the Brother. It also lends itself to monks, and monks are generally more humble and not necessarily apathetic, but acceptive types in terms of stereotype. Plus monks are generally a universal concept in many religions.Not bad, not bad at all. I didn't catch that bit about fungus exposure changing eye color, but I should have expected it, since the developers sang the praises of Dune at the end of the instruction manual. I'll give that one a shot. It's a bit older than I would have thought for Joaquin, but it really captures the tone I was going for.
That and his eyes have a purple tinge to them: which gives the impression he has been affected by prolonged exposure to Chironian fungus, which ;cha; having been born or exposed in fungus as a child had purple eyes. And so do people with prolonged exposure to fungus do.
I've also attached the txt file for House Satori. I didn't use the faction editor so everything was written manually. I haven't completed the alien language sections yet because I don't usually play with Progenitors but I'll do that eventually. Also I'll come up with some more land base names.
EDIT: Re-Uploaded the faction txt because I left a line in there from a previous custom faction
Post by: Rymdolov on July 19, 2013, 07:41:38 PM
I've also attached the txt file for House Satori.
Great base names and an excellent blurb! You've captured the style of SMAC quotes very well.
Post by: JarlWolf on July 19, 2013, 07:52:17 PM
Also on the note of Joaquin, I can make him younger in that picture, remove his wrinkles and change his hair colour without ruining the quality of the photo. Let me know your thoughts on it.
Post by: Geo on July 19, 2013, 09:35:40 PM
On Satori,does it need to be an English title? With his background, you could as well use a Japanese one. Toreda for instance (meaning trader).
Post by: Sigma on July 19, 2013, 10:10:05 PM
Welcome to the forum, Sigma. :)That's an option, but I think Guildmaster works for what I'm going for. I'd rather there not be a need for a footnote on such an integral part of the faction's identity. Atsumi doesn't view her Japanese heritage as a crucial part of her identity, and a major theme of this faction set is viewing Planet as a new beginning, so it wouldn't be consistent.
On Satori,does it need to be an English title? With his background, you could as well use a Japanese one. Toreda for instance (meaning trader).
I've attached the txt files for the Technocrat Foundation and the Sons of the Advent. Again, the alien dialog isn't complete yet for the aforementioned reason but I'll get that worked out. Post your thoughts and comments.
Next up is working on the Peacekeeper type group. I'm thinking of calling them the Colonial Union (Union for short), but that seems a little generic.
Post by: ete on July 20, 2013, 03:13:57 PM
Energy reserves gain +5% interest per turn (Commerce, 2)Energy interest is extremely powerful, especially in the hands of a faction with some other energy bonuses. 5% would be by far the biggest bonus the faction has, even 1-2% is significant (at 1000 energy, which you can build up naturally earlyish game with some saving, that's still 10-20 credits a turn and makes saving up more much easier). Commerce basically means the faction has a strong reason to stay at peace with as many factions as possible, and be pacted where it can be, which probably fits well with your goal for the faction.
Increased commerce rate {Experienced traders and merchants} (Interest, 5)
It's been a while since I messed with Commerce or Interest; how would these numbers impacts the faction's performance?
Also, probe bonuses are not that great for actually using probes oddly enough, they mostly help protect you from foe probes. A +2 Probe Morale bonus is kinda nice, but generally you can train probes to elite through a few easy missions, and only have to buy some extras to compensate. Plus lategame all probes are generally elite anyway, and the - Morale will counteract half the probe bonus.
Post by: Sigma on July 20, 2013, 06:18:25 PM
I've prepared sort of a first draft of the fourth faction, the Colonial Authority, or Authority for short.
(click to show/hide)
For the record, Marshall Valentin is a woman. I know exactly (http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic585355.jpg) what her leader portrait is going to be.
One significant thing about the Authority is that they have no anti-Ideology. Their goal in governance is to unite the colonies under the original mission parameters, and they'll do it by hook or by crook, so whatever works for them is what they'll go with. Their inclination is towards Power and Support, however, so Basque is not likely to rule with a gentle hand. The research penalty is actually a little neutered here because all of the factions in this set, as I mentioned, have a passive techshare 4 ability, so while Basque is likely to be at the rear of the pack she probably isn't going to be left in the stone age. I considered giving her an efficiency penalty but if she ever picked Police State or Planned Economics it would cripple her economy in one fell swoop.
Here is another angle I could at, though:
(click to show/hide)
What this does is change how the faction operates depending on whether Basque chooses Democratic or Police State politics. In this event I would make Fundamentalism her Anti-Ideology to force her to choose. If she goes Democratic then her growth rate skyrockets but it cuts into her ability to field troops; therefore the Authority could potentially become the most expansive faction but lose some of its military potential. Conversely, if she picks Police State, she can field a huge army and is basically immune to drone problems but will always be at the end of the tech race between her Research penalty and Police State's efficiency rate.
What does everyone think? Writing this last paragraph made the second option seem much more interesting to me.
Post by: Geo on July 20, 2013, 07:36:03 PM
Another example could be Iran, who isn't shy either at fielding military counter measures against its most likely opponent's literally massive strike equipment.
Post by: Sigma on July 20, 2013, 07:58:40 PM
To me, it sounds anathema to have a faction spent much of its income to its military, but NOT more advanced weaponry for said military (research thus). Even North Korea, a country known for its outdated military equipment, made sure to have the rare capability to perform a nuclear strike at distance.Well bear in mind that "Research" means more than just better weapons. It also means discovering new fields of science, buiding methods and economic principles. Basque thinks all of that is less important than maintaining law and order and bringing the factions back under one government.
Another example could be Iran, who isn't shy either at fielding military counter measures against its most likely opponent's literally massive strike equipment.
Post by: ete on July 20, 2013, 09:24:11 PM
For the most recently posted, there seems to be not much as far as very important bonuses, and -2 Research is quite harsh. I'd consider dropping it to -1 research and adding some other minor disadvantage, or reducing the bonus to +10% defense. And Police seems to be a more likely bonus than Growth, growing yourself is not directly helping unify others, keeping population under tight control (especially conquered bases) is. Still, probably a fairly balanced faction.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 20, 2013, 09:30:10 PM
Post by: Sigma on July 20, 2013, 09:45:12 PM
I'd be inclined to test Satori with maybe +3 commerce and either no or 1-2% interest, interest promotes leaving a load of cash in the bank, commerce bonuses promote exploring to meet other factions fast and staying at peace with them. The second seems more like the kind of tactic you want to encourage, and additionally, it's likely the AI will not be able to play to the strengths of energy interest while a human can use it extremely well even at low numbers.That's some good feedback. I took your advice with Satori and switched around the bonuses for their Commerce and Interest. It seems like I'm really playing with fire when it comes to Interest, so that will need more fine tuning.
For the most recently posted, there seems to be not much as far as very important bonuses, and -2 Research is quite harsh. I'd consider dropping it to -1 research and adding some other minor disadvantage, or reducing the bonus to +10% defense. And Police seems to be a more likely bonus than Growth, growing yourself is not directly helping unify others, keeping population under tight control (especially conquered bases) is. Still, probably a fairly balanced faction.
So for the Authority, you're saying keep +1 Support and +1 Police but downgrade Research to -1 and add another penalty. Is it possible to have a negative number in the Psi Modifier? Because I think that would work well (the Authority are better equipped to deal with people than native lifeforms) but it's not an option in the Faction Editor, but I could just edit the text file.
Post by: JarlWolf on July 20, 2013, 09:52:20 PM
As for a PSI penalty, text edit is the only way to do it I think, morale is the only way I know how to give a penalty fighting native units. If you can't text edit it my suggestion is- Lower morale to -1, but give them an attack/defence bonus. This will translate for conventional fighting but it won't for PSI.
Post by: Sigma on July 20, 2013, 10:01:09 PM
I suggest for the Planetarian Authority faction that for their second drawback is you make them also have a hurry penalty. The reasoning: Resources, while they do go into the military the Authority is going to be an organization that will have multiple fronts. It won't have the resources to spare to individual bases and sectors as it needs to supply all fronts so whatever a front gets, it has to make do with. So maybe have a hurry penalty of maybe 15-25% or something.I was actually thinking exactly that. With everyone out in the field their factories are understaffed.
With that in mind, would it be overpowered to increase either their Support or Police rank to +2? The +1 for both seems kinda anemic when compared to the hassle of playing with -2 Research plus the Hurry penalty.
Post by: JarlWolf on July 20, 2013, 10:25:34 PM
With that in mind, would it be overpowered to increase either their Support or Police rank to +2? The +1 for both seems kinda anemic when compared to the hassle of playing with -2 Research plus the Hurry penalty.
Support goes farther then you think actually, let me tell you from my own experience with my labour of love the Crimson Comrades. Support means you can field more units easier, grow larger bases or even have more minerals to spare. This means this can translate to an energy upgrade if you mass produce colony pods and produce smaller settlements and grow them to be economic hubs. My Crimson Comrades for example in game are great attrition fighters, they can take a beating and still churn out more while the enemy, in order to keep up has to spend valuable minerals and energy on where it could be applied for research. With your faction it'll be like the Comrades somewhat just to a lesser extent, and for the Authority you'll have to worry far less about making facilities to appease your citizens due to the police and conquering bases won't require too large of a military.
I think it's balanced with the changes suggested. If you were to change anything I'd put POLICE up to +2 so you can man bases far better, because your forces aren't going to be as numerous with this faction as every man counts.
Post by: ete on July 21, 2013, 11:41:43 AM
Glad you appreciate the feedback, and yea, +1 Support / +1 Police seems reasonable, but -2 Research seems harsh. Not having another penalty and keeping the current other bonuses would probably be too powerful, with the Hurry modifier suggested by Jarl being a good idea imo. And I'd not be keen to go to +2 on either of the bonuses, it's strong enough.I'd be inclined to test Satori with maybe +3 commerce and either no or 1-2% interest, interest promotes leaving a load of cash in the bank, commerce bonuses promote exploring to meet other factions fast and staying at peace with them. The second seems more like the kind of tactic you want to encourage, and additionally, it's likely the AI will not be able to play to the strengths of energy interest while a human can use it extremely well even at low numbers.That's some good feedback. I took your advice with Satori and switched around the bonuses for their Commerce and Interest. It seems like I'm really playing with fire when it comes to Interest, so that will need more fine tuning.
For the most recently posted, there seems to be not much as far as very important bonuses, and -2 Research is quite harsh. I'd consider dropping it to -1 research and adding some other minor disadvantage, or reducing the bonus to +10% defense. And Police seems to be a more likely bonus than Growth, growing yourself is not directly helping unify others, keeping population under tight control (especially conquered bases) is. Still, probably a fairly balanced faction.
So for the Authority, you're saying keep +1 Support and +1 Police but downgrade Research to -1 and add another penalty. Is it possible to have a negative number in the Psi Modifier? Because I think that would work well (the Authority are better equipped to deal with people than native lifeforms) but it's not an option in the Faction Editor, but I could just edit the text file.
Comments on other factions:
Quote
The Technocrat Foundation
Leader: Founder Josef Federov
Background: Republic of Ukraine, Unity Chief Engineer
Agenda: Advancing technological frontiers
Vision: Conquering death and human disunity by merging man and machine
Points of Reference: Ian M. Bank's Culture novels, Hannu Rajaneimi's The Quantum Thief series
Starting Tech: Information Networks
+1 RESEARCH: {Focused on scientific advancement}
+1 EFFIC: {AIs regulation}
-2 GROWTH: {Emphasis of mind over body}
Free NETWORK NODE at every base
Extra DRONE for every four citizens {(ideology alienates many)}
Immune to EFFICIENCY penalties {Computer assisted society}
May not use Power Values.
--A bit derivative of the University, but for good reason; Zacharov did it best and why mess with perfection? I reduced the research bonus by 1 because the Efficiency bonus and immunity to Efficiency penalties would more than offset it. The University's probe penalty has been replaced with a penalty to Growth, as a society so heavily rooted in computer science would have better network security than Zacharov's vision of a worldwide college town; moreover Probe penalties are fairly toothless in a game where the Hunter Seeker Algorithm exists. I could use a better explanation for the Growth penalty apart from the CyberCon's "how is babby formed?" excuse. The leader is inspired by the Russian philosopher Nicholai Fyodorov, who believed that the ultimate aim of science should be the unification of mankind against the "blind-force" of nature, and was one of the first transhumanists.
Very much a Uni/CyCon hybrid, and in a way taking the best of both. The Effic immunity makes running Police State/Planned pretty viable at least early on, which counteracts the drone problems and balances out growth (though pop booming is still hard). Overall, I'd say this faction is probably stronger than the original human ones, because it has a good collection of notable bonuses for a builder with only a couple of disadvantages. It also feels a bit too similar to uni, particularly the free NN. Plus, unlike most builder factions, it can run PS/Planned like Yang to field a large army and keep drones under control while still having solid income/research.
I'd be inclined to change several of the things which make it like the Uni, perhaps dropping the free NNs and the extra drones (Zak experimented on his population, these guys seem a lot more moral than that), and perhaps introduce some combat penalty to give them a clear weakness? e.g. -1 Morale (Citizens fear death and want to avoid combat)
Quote
Sons of the Advent
Leader: Brother Joaquin el-Kadiz
Background: Free Afghanistan, Unity Astrophysicist
Agenda: Acquiring spiritual enlightenment
Vision: Messianic transcendence
Points of Reference: Frank Herbert's Dune
Starting Tech: Social Psych
25% Fanatic bonus on offense
+2 PLANET: {Believe that Planet is sacred and must be protected}
-1 ECONOMY: {Limited commercial interests}
-1 INDUSTRY: {Weak industrial base}
All units gain the Hypnotic Trance ability upon discovery of Secrets of the Human Brain
Experiences no negative effects from Fundamentalist Politics {Modern religious movement}
May not use Free Market Economics
The one faction from SMAC that I've never played is the Believers, because I can't bring myself to sympathize with her, or be entertained by her philosophy the way that I am with Yang, the jolliest tyrant. Not that I'm anti-religion, but rather that Miriam's version seems particularly poisonous and lended too easily to have her be the villain. With the Sons of the Advent, I wanted to create a religious faction that was potentially sympathetic. The key point of reference is Dune, particularly the Fremen, who viewed their lifeless wasteland as their holy land. Similarly Brother Joaquin and his followers see Planet as a promised land that needs to be cared for, hence the Planet bonus. The Economy and Industry penalties seem self explanatory, and lead the Pilgrims well away from a Development based, and rather one based on survival and conquest (again, invoking Herbert's Fremen). This is further encouraged by giving them Impunity to Fundamentalism, which turns that from being one of the worst overall social options to maybe the strongest for this particular faction.
Initial thoughts was that it looks good and pretty balanced, but it does seem very similar to the Cult. Literally the same social modifiers, and a few different bonuses. Being able to run Fundamentalist is a good way to differentiate, but, yes. I'd bet this faction will be much closer to Cha than Mirriam in playstyle. +2 Planet is a very large modifier. I don't have much specific suggestions, because if you're fine with it being fairly Cultlike this should be a balanced faction, and if you want it to be not cultlike you'd have to find a different core bonus (maybe drawing resources from fungus? Psy Combat modifier?) and lower/remove the +2 Planet.
Also, I encourage you to store the factions on the wiki, I can talk you through it if you like but basically:
Type in the name of the page you want to create (example)
Copy/paste this:
{{FactionInfoBox
|Text=
|Economy=
|Interest=
|Commerce=
|Efficiency=
|Support=
|Talent=
|Morale=
|MoraleModifier=
|Police=
|Growth=
|Planet=
|Probe=
|ProbeCost=
|Industry=
|Research=
|TechCost=
|ResearchBonus=
|Immunity=
|Penalty=
|Robust=
|AntiIdeology=
|Ideology=
|Impunity=
|FreeTech=
|FreeTech2=
|FreeUnit=
|FreeFacility=
|PreqFreeFacility=
|FreeAbility=
|Offense=
|Defense=
|Psi=
|PopulationBonus=
|ExtraDrone=
|ExtraTalent=
|BonusTechs=
|StartingEnergy=
|FungNutrients=
|FungMinerals=
|FungEnergy=
|Hurry=
|Votes=
|NoDrone=
|Revolt=
|ShareTech=
|Infiltrator=
|Terraform=
|Comm=
|MindControl=
|Prototype=
|Progenitor=
|Aquatic=
|Fanatic=
|WormPolice=
|StealTech=
}}
in and fill out the bonuses, then save and you have a faction page. Clicking edit on other faction pages lets you see the template used to generate them.
For the text file, wrap it in
on the page Faction/textfile.txt
Having it on wiki means you have a public version history for your factions, and they're in the filing system.
Post by: Sigma on July 21, 2013, 01:07:13 PM
I'm open to changing the Facility and Drone penalties for the Technocrats, but I'd rather keep the Social Engineering where it is. The reason is that I want to avoid duplicating social benefits/penalties between factions in this set, and across the board negative morale fits better with House Satori than with the Technocrats. What about -2 Morale Modifier penalty?
EDIT: I think I'll change their Efficiency Immunity to a Robust, that way they don't get a free ride out of their social woes.
Overall I'd prefer if these factions were comparable in power to the original 7, but what's more important is that they are comparable to each other.
Post by: Sigma on July 21, 2013, 09:47:53 PM
For the Technocrats, I replaced their Growth penalty with -2 Morale, with the justification being that they rely on technology rather than training in battle. I also switched out their Drone penalty for a -2 Population modifier, due to their emphasis on scientific and digital infrastructure over civil infrastructure resulting in staggered base growth. The NN facility stays, though, since networking is in part what the Technocrats are all about.
For the Pilgrims I dropped their +2 Planet down to +1 and added a +1 Fungus Minerals bonus, though that brings the Pilgrims up to having seven social modifications, which is more than any of the original 7 SMAC factions (I'm averse to having my factions have significantly more complex social modifications from the originals). I may have to parse that down a bit; with their Planet rating dropped to +1, would it unbalance them if I dropped their -1 Industry penalty?
For Satori, I replaced their negative Morale benefit to a -2 Moral modifier, that way they don't take a permanent cut to all Probe actions forever.
The next faction in the set is going to be a faction of Industrialists that can read as either the [progeny of unmarried parents] child of Karl Marx and Ayn Rand or as Andrew Ryan in Space. Objectivist/Libetarian Bolsheviks-- an industrial collectivist meritocracy out of JarlWolf's nightmares.
Post by: Sigma on July 23, 2013, 02:52:44 AM
In any case, I've drafted up the mechanics for Faction #5, Apollo Industries.
(click to show/hide)
Their leader is Henry Roark, the man who actually oversaw the construction of the Unity. His origin is the Union of American Commonwealths, consisting of the Northeastern states from Maine to Maryland, which serves as the counterpart to Miriam's Christian States of America.
The idea here, as stated, is inspired by Ayn Rand's objectivist writings (in fact the main character shares his last name with the protagonist of The Fountainhead), though Roark himself takes much more from Bioshock's Andrew Ryan. The industry bonus is pretty self-explanatory. Negative efficiency originates with the fact that, even though Roark and his followers espouse that their unregulated economy is better for society, what that boils down to is everyone is in it for themselves, and as such they need an actual cooperative political model (Democracy) in order for their economy to function properly. That in itself serves as a mild rebuke of Objectivism/Libertarianism, where their ultimate ideal of no government oversight is unrealistic and serves in the end to divide rather than unite.
I thought the free Supply Crawler would be an interesting benefit, since it would allow Roark to expand his industrial concerns more rapidly for his home base (which is what he'd want anyway). The Drone penalty and Hurry bonus are self explanatory. The inability to pick Green politics comes from Apollo's unwillingness to accept industrial regulations, forcing them either go with Free Market, and thus inheriting its polution and civil problems, or Planned and hurt their economy.
My immediate reservation is the faction name. Apollo Industries comes from the fact that Roark views himself as sort of an american Apollo, the greek sun god that everyone loves. The main problem is figuring out the faction noun. Apollo doesn't really work as a singular the way that Hive or University does, but the alternative is the adjective form made into a plural noun, Apollonians, which to me doesn't sound right either. Suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 23, 2013, 02:58:00 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on July 23, 2013, 03:11:10 AM
Objectivist/Libetarian Bolsheviks-- an industrial collectivist meritocracy out of JarlWolf's nightmares.
If they are a collectivist meritocracy then how is it from my nightmares? Such a society would be in my interests no?
A nightmare society for me would be a Corporate backed Fascist Police state that is free market economy, barely any government civil services for it's people. Add in a theocratic religion in there and its a hell for me.
Unless you meant something else.
As for the Apollo Industries, name: Apollites, or Apollans. You could also go with the Apollanites.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 23, 2013, 03:17:45 AM
Post by: Sigma on July 23, 2013, 03:18:34 AM
Hahaha I actually ran that faction once. I ginned up the University into the Weyland Yutani corporation and ran Police State/Free Market, with my values shifting to whatever was convenient at the time. It was hilariously sub optimal and I handled my police problems by building Punishment Spheres in conquered bases and using them basically as forced enlistment camps to churn out units.Objectivist/Libetarian Bolsheviks-- an industrial collectivist meritocracy out of JarlWolf's nightmares.
If they are a collectivist meritocracy then how is it from my nightmares? Such a society would be in my interests no?
A nightmare society for me would be a Corporate backed Fascist Police state that is free market economy, barely any government civil services for it's people. Add in a theocratic religion in there and its a hell for me.
Unless you meant something else.
As for the Apollo Industries, name: Apollites, or Apollans. You could also go with the Apollanites.
What I was referring to more is that Roark appropriates Bolshevik and collectivist rhetoric, and he might actually believe it, but the reality of the situation is that his objectivist tendencies are to let the Market decide everything, leading to the Drone problems that they experience as well as their inefficiency. So there's a built in hypocrasy of what he's saying verses out the faction actually functions.
Naturally, then, part of the player's role is to realize that workers' and builders' paradise through the course of the game through social engineering and base design.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 23, 2013, 03:31:02 AM
Post by: Sigma on July 23, 2013, 03:35:23 AM
Also, objectivists/libertarians have a very strong tradition of being virulently, almost mindlessly, anti-communist...Yeah, basically the only real thing that link's Roark's philosophy with Bolshevikism is a rejection of the bourgeois, but even how they use that term differs. Roark for instance would think that it's pretty keen to get filthy rich as long as you earned it by working hard and being objectively better than everyone else.
What do you think of the stats? I considered adding +1 Economy as another bonus but if they run Free Market/Wealth that could get ridiculous.
Post by: JarlWolf on July 23, 2013, 03:58:59 AM
Post by: Green1 on July 23, 2013, 05:11:05 AM
I think AC, as I have mentioned before, is one of those classics that never die much like Age of Wonders or Master of Magic that still to this day have active communities. Maybe not on the order of Civ Fanatics, but active nonetheless and will still be here come Civ 6.
Your factions look very interesting and I collect good, story driven factions for my sandbox. I like some of the ideas. In the USA, objectivists come from 2 sources: Anne Rynd followers and a few from the Temple of Set/LaVeyan Satanism (which, ironically is a recognized religion by the US military). You may want to go with something like that for objectivist factions.
Post by: Sigma on July 23, 2013, 10:20:01 AM
BTW, I was distracted trying to fight off Antimind, a classic NN faction that has been giving SP folks hell for almost a decade, that I have neglected to talk on forums. Welcome to AC2!Thanks Green1! I've been following your AAR4 thread and it's really riveting! I remember dismissing the AntiMind when I first saw it appear on Network Node waaaaay back when the site was still up, but now it's like a weird half-remembered nightmare come back. I may have to play against them sometime!
I think AC, as I have mentioned before, is one of those classics that never die much like Age of Wonders or Master of Magic that still to this day have active communities. Maybe not on the order of Civ Fanatics, but active nonetheless and will still be here come Civ 6.
Your factions look very interesting and I collect good, story driven factions for my sandbox. I like some of the ideas. In the USA, objectivists come from 2 sources: Anne Rynd followers and a few from the Temple of Set/LaVeyan Satanism (which, ironically is a recognized religion by the US military). You may want to go with something like that for objectivist factions.
Yeah this is definitely the Ayn Rand kind vs LaVey kind. I'd like to think that that all of these factions can be played either as villains or heroes, but I'm probably a bit harsher on the Apollonians than the others because of my distaste for that philosophy. The way to go about viewing them as protagonists is to look at Roark's ideology as being that everyone has something that they are good at, and people should be given the freedom and opportunity to maximize their skill in that area in order to become Objectively Great. Alternately you can just play the game as Andrew Ryan and enjoy being a kind of crazy ultra egotist who traveled to space to escape American building regulations.
EDIT: I completed the pcx file for the Colonial Authority. I used the Usurper's base set because I think they're pretty awesome and they fit the faction very well, but I could change them in the future. Leader portrait is Michelle Forbes as Admiral Helena Cain from Battlestar Galactica. The logo is also from BSG, as is the diplomacy image. It seemed to fit quite well.
Post by: sisko on July 23, 2013, 01:49:00 PM
Post by: Sigma on July 23, 2013, 01:56:11 PM
Post by: sisko on July 23, 2013, 02:29:22 PM
Post by: Sigma on July 23, 2013, 02:40:39 PM
EDIT: looks like I need to tweak the logo a little bit. The left side got a little messed up.
Post by: Sigma on July 23, 2013, 05:52:06 PM
(click to show/hide)
That means I have two more factions left to round this out. I don't currently have any strong ideas on what they should be, so instead I'm going to focus on graphics for the ones that I do have.
Post by: ete on July 23, 2013, 10:24:01 PM
I'd suggest doing at least one, maybe better two, of the following:
Remove Hurry 75%
Effic to -2
Negative interest, perhaps 5-10% (workers taking a share of profits)
Adding in another penalty, like -1 Planet, -1 Support, or a base size reduction
Post by: Sigma on July 23, 2013, 11:14:24 PM
hm, seems mostly balanced, though Industry+ and a nice Hurry modifier may be too much together. Not insanely broken by any means, but after ability to hit +1 eng/square and pop boom, Industry is the most important SE setting and there's not a very significant counterweight (the two cannon factions with industry bonuses had -2 Econ and -2 Research). Effic- and not being able to run green won't come into play until mid-late game, and the drone problem is not that significant.How about if I change Hurry 75% to Hurry 90% and change the Drone penalty to 1 and 3?
I'd suggest doing at least one, maybe better two, of the following:
Remove Hurry 75%
Effic to -2
Negative interest, perhaps 5-10% (workers taking a share of profits)
Adding in another penalty, like -1 Planet, -1 Support, or a base size reduction
Post by: ete on July 23, 2013, 11:19:12 PM
Post by: Sigma on July 23, 2013, 11:28:04 PM
I'm thinking of using Aaron Eckhart from Thank You for Smoking as the leader portrait, since it's the perfect combination of smug, self centered jerk and All American Charisma. But I need to work on the Technocrats first.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 24, 2013, 01:14:42 AM
(http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3819.0;attach=4658;image)
Makes the faction less compatible with the originals, for one thing.
Have you had a look at the eight bases files I posted in Downloads? http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;cat=17 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;cat=17) There's about 100 base sets to choose from, not a lot of work to drop a set in, and few have been used anywhere...
Post by: JarlWolf on July 24, 2013, 01:50:42 AM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 24, 2013, 01:58:11 AM
Post by: Sigma on July 24, 2013, 02:27:26 AM
Completed the Technocrat Foundation pcx. Leader portrait is Bryan Cranston. I think I really nailed the colorization on this one. This one is going to need actual bases since ete wants to use it for his Powergaming AAR. I'm going to need to see what I can do on that front first thing.
Post by: ete on July 24, 2013, 10:06:41 AM
Could you update the OP with all the recent changes/additions so it's easy to look over your factions without reading through the whole thread?
Post by: Sigma on July 24, 2013, 11:01:24 AM
BTW can you tell that those are input/output jacks on Federov's forehead, or do they look like bullet holes?
Post by: ete on July 24, 2013, 11:04:01 AM
Post by: ete on July 24, 2013, 11:20:21 AM
Note that base size bonus is reversed, so -2 actually lets them get size 9 bases. Put 2 in order to give size 5 max initially.
Post by: Sigma on July 24, 2013, 01:40:46 PM
Also the Sharetech 4 is something that I'm removing from the textfiles until I do a testrun on all seven factions together with it to see how it affects the game. The idea is that I want to smooth out the tech curve a bit, but it only really makes sense in the context of the full set. They shouldn't have it as stand-alone releases.
I added faction datalinks to the first post of this thread. I'll upload all of the txt files there when I get home from work.
For the Technocrat bases, I think I'm going to go with the Base 8 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=68) pack, second row/right column. Those look suitably futuristic!
Post by: Geo on July 24, 2013, 07:39:38 PM
BTW can you tell that those are input/output jacks on Federov's forehead, or do they look like bullet holes?
To me they look like some sort of rashes at first glance. Way too big for I/O jacks, unless quite a bit of insulation is needed around the real plug-in.
No, something the size of Geordi's (from Star Trek TNG) visor attachment points would be more appropriate.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 24, 2013, 07:49:07 PM
Post by: Geo on July 24, 2013, 07:50:23 PM
Would adding the jacks and cables help?
Heh, I can already imagine the diplomacy quotes! ;lol ;b;
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 24, 2013, 07:51:11 PM
Post by: Sigma on July 24, 2013, 08:23:58 PM
I took it as a tattoo or something on first glance -- but given that we're talking the Breaking Bad guy, the bullet thing is unfortunate. Would adding the jacks and cables help?Honestly I had a hard time figuring out exactly who I wanted to use for Federov, until I realized I was subconsciously imagining Bryan Cranston the entire time. I'll work on some other options for his headshot. Fortunately I saved a pre-jacks version of the portrait. One that I thought of doing was a sort of Ghost in the Shell look with visible seams to show where his normal skin ends and his synthetic parts begin, but I'm not entirely sure how I'd do that. I don't want him to like a Borg though. I'm trying to go off the original SMAC aesthetic, where the characters looked relatively normal and modern save for some weird clothes occasionally (re: Yang and Zak). I thought the jacks would be a nice, unobtrusive way to show that he's more than just human.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 24, 2013, 08:27:43 PM
Post by: Geo on July 24, 2013, 08:48:20 PM
Post by: Sigma on July 24, 2013, 09:05:48 PM
The in-universe explanation for the forehead jacks would be that they're for accessing his frontal lobe so he can upload or download data to or from his short-term memory. He'd also have jacks behind his ears for accessing long-term memory and sensory input, and jacks at the back of his neck in standard Matrix/Ghost in the Shell fashion.
Post by: Geo on July 24, 2013, 09:30:08 PM
Post by: Sigma on July 26, 2013, 10:54:25 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on July 26, 2013, 11:29:26 AM
Post by: Sigma on July 26, 2013, 02:47:36 PM
Bases look like some scientific observation compound. That or a landed UFO. Not a bad choice.I thought so. I dressed up the 3 and 4 sizes with secondary structures to make so that the changes are a bit more than just a bigger main building.
Also I finally uploaded completed Textfiles to the first page.
Post by: Geo on July 26, 2013, 05:12:42 PM
I thought so. I dressed up the 3 and 4 sizes with secondary structures to make so that the changes are a bit more than just a bigger main building.
I love it when someone goes through the effort of adding structures to his bases. ;b;
Post by: Sigma on July 26, 2013, 05:34:23 PM
I'm going to work on the Procyon aliens for Green1's AAR next, then start on the rest of the graphics for this set.
Post by: JarlWolf on July 26, 2013, 06:54:50 PM
I thought so. I dressed up the 3 and 4 sizes with secondary structures to make so that the changes are a bit more than just a bigger main building.
I love it when someone goes through the effort of adding structures to his bases. ;b;
In my personal opinion, a graphics pack with a lack of additional buildings at later levels is just being lazy. Real cities add new facilities and other things, not just merely increase in size.
Post by: Kilkakon on July 27, 2013, 04:24:25 PM
Still, the current base packs are great for letting people get right into making a faction within a few minutes. :)
@Sigma Just make sure that your base doesn't get too wide! It can spill out of the diamond hehe. :D But if you're happy with how it looks ingame then sweet.
Post by: Sigma on July 28, 2013, 03:37:11 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on July 28, 2013, 05:02:47 AM
Post by: Sigma on July 29, 2013, 02:08:33 PM
I should have preliminary graphics work done on the five factions this week (leader pics and Diplomacy backgrounds at the very lease, maybe bases for some of them too). Meantime I've been brainstorming the last two. Here is what I have so far. Let me know your thoughts:
The Leviathan Body: I was reading Green1's AAR2 when I had the idea for these guys. He brought up that the Data Angels are very much a product of the 90's hacker craze, and that if SMAX were made now they'd basically be written like they were Anonymous. Coupled with the fact that Apollo Industries utterly failed to embody a true people's movement, I thought up these guys. The name comes from Thomas Hobbes' book about statecraft, Leviathan, which uses the allegory of a huge creature as a nation, with a monarch as its head. Here, as the name suggests, the faction takes a stand as the body of the Leviathan-- its people. The Leviathan Body is a faction of the dispossessed, the colonists from the Unity who rejected the high and mighty ideologies of the other factions in favor of freedom from oppression by those same ideologies. The Leviathan's main strength would be its Growth-- they are a populist faction that draws in people from across Planet. Not sure about its weakness yet, probably Police and Probe (distrust of law enforcement and surveillance). Their goal is a free Planet of the people, not of the elites that dominate each faction.
EDIT: The leader of this faction would be South African, and would be just a generic Unity Passenger with no rank to speak of. Need to think of a good name.
The Genome Syndicate: In a way Leviathan's opposite and a counterpoint to the Technocrat Foundation, the Genome Syndicate seeks to use genetic enhancement and social memetic influence to pull mankind to a new state of evolution-- Homo Superior, in effect, kind of like the Bene Gesserit from Dune. They have poor population growth but high Talent output, so while each of their bases will be smaller than a Leviathan base, it may be more productive.
Post by: Sigma on July 31, 2013, 02:24:06 AM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2013, 02:34:22 AM
You really need to put credits in the empty space - I've seen many a custom faction graphic without them, and one problem of only putting credits in the .txt or somewhere else is that faction art gets re-purposed, and then how will posterity know it's your work? Be proud, and take credit everywhere, .txt and .pcx alike.
Like you said about the last one you posted, you need to size & place the leaderhead art, THEN do the scanlines seperately - they take seconds in GIMP with the Erase Every Other Row function.
I'm really impressed with how quickly you've gotten the hang of this. I usually have to answer questions for a few weeks. Good work, sir. ;b;
Post by: Sigma on July 31, 2013, 02:39:44 AM
Also I wasn't aware of an Erase Every Other row function; is that automatic? I've been doing it by hand according to your Graphics thread.
I'll add credits at some point in the future.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2013, 02:46:13 AM
It's the same technique with the +15% raised contrast over -15% -or the other way around- but instead of the hard way I did it for years erasing one line at a time, Filters>Distorts>Erase Every Other Row. Saves 10-15 minutes at a stroke. I'm SURE the technique is written up in Graphics and posted in Articles...
Post by: Sigma on July 31, 2013, 02:49:32 AM
I've been trying to pick out a decent picture for Atsumi Satori but I've been struggling for some reason to find a mature, regal looking Japanese woman to use for her leaderhead, since everytime I google "Japanese actress" or "Japanese model" all I get are pages and pages of teenage idols. Japan! ;q; ;q; ;q;
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2013, 02:51:23 AM
Google Japanese royalty?
Post by: JarlWolf on July 31, 2013, 04:02:57 AM
Post by: Sigma on July 31, 2013, 11:18:10 AM
What exactly are you trying to look for? I am guessing this is for House Satori. If you are looking for a female Merchant or something, or something else? Because I can help, just give me the specifics.Yeah, it's for Satori.
Post by: Sigma on July 31, 2013, 04:02:06 PM
(click to show/hide)
Thoughts?
EDIT: Police State is politics, not economics. :-[
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2013, 04:35:55 PM
I've been trying to pick out a decent picture for Atsumi Satori but I've been struggling for some reason to find a mature, regal looking Japanese woman to use for her leaderhead, since everytime I google "Japanese actress" or "Japanese model" all I get are pages and pages of teenage idols. Japan! ;q; ;q; ;q;I just googled "japanese empress", and that might be in the line you want, though Empress Michiko has an unfortunate tendency to smile and wave, but not always.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2013, 04:39:54 PM
(http://media-cache-ec2.pinimg.com/236x/89/b9/d5/89b9d5aab163c0eab2c35e45f3863853.jpg)
Post by: Sigma on July 31, 2013, 04:55:08 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2013, 05:03:56 PM
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/disorderly/disorderly1204/disorderly120400512/13270124-mature-woman-in-a-traditional-japanese-outfit.jpg)
(http://ommphoto.ca/slideshow/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/japan.july_.072807.ND200.342.jpg)
"warmer, more approachable appearance" isn't a problem. Google "japanese grandmother portrait" - those old ladies are always smiling.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2013, 05:07:02 PM
Post by: Sigma on July 31, 2013, 05:33:36 PM
Post by: Sigma on July 31, 2013, 10:39:08 PM
Post by: JarlWolf on July 31, 2013, 10:40:12 PM
(http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/still/memoirs_of_a_geisha_03.jpg)
(http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/10900000/Sayuri-memoirs-of-a-geisha-10958779-800-600.jpg)
(http://doocab.com/uploads/robotvsbadger.com*wp-content*uploads*2010*04*Geisha_by_mbennion76.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSD0TGX6mgdqraOAQ93_kVslZMnR7Vyj3V9DKtW5jxAeTljv4QE)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm31/teriyaki_grl/GEISHA.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_O2ma-djc3Xg/TJ2wTulY3dI/AAAAAAAAA5w/T5ZW4mSKnro/s1600/Kimono.jpg)
(http://images.wookmark.com/19067_geisha-inspiration-11.jpg)
(http://www.freshcharacters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/birthday_geisha_by_viccolatte-d31ciax_thumb.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJ8mT1x1EwT7MMU3KF2Z0eJHNe4snPxFJJdQt3_ehlHK0_VKvf)
Post by: Kilkakon on August 01, 2013, 01:50:02 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 01, 2013, 03:13:25 AM
(http://doocab.com/uploads/robotvsbadger.com*wp-content*uploads*2010*04*Geisha_by_mbennion76.jpg)Hmmm I'll see what I can do with that one.
Post by: JarlWolf on August 01, 2013, 03:58:51 AM
I don't have any pictures of Japanese women on my computer. :( Do pokemon count? XD
Neither do I: I just search them up on a search engine.
I'd say I know what to look for but that could sound perverted.
Post by: Sigma on August 02, 2013, 01:41:15 AM
Using Data Angels bases for now; will switch to some kind of Pagoda like structure in the future. The Erase Every Other Row distort makes these graphics trivial.
Post by: Kilkakon on August 02, 2013, 01:49:01 AM
I think she looks nice, perhaps remove the bruise on her jaw?
Post by: Sigma on August 02, 2013, 01:50:30 AM
You're welcome to use my Assassin ones if you think they'll work for her. :) Credit of course!Yeah I don't exactly know how that shading got there. :-\ I may have to redo the coloration on these.
I think she looks nice, perhaps remove the bruise on her jaw?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 02, 2013, 01:54:29 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 02, 2013, 02:51:34 AM
I think after all this I'm going to need to revisit the Authority logo. The more I look at it the less I like it.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 02, 2013, 03:06:18 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 02, 2013, 04:23:21 AM
Post by: ete on August 02, 2013, 10:39:46 AM
Stats for the Leviathan Body:hm, +15% offense seems a little out of place (they may fight hard for ideals, but so do almost every other faction), and on vanilla those stats show up as Alien Offense. Minus Police and free Rec Commons.. Easy growth near the start, no drone problems for a while, and FM I guess would be somewhat appealing. Lack of upkeep for Rec Commons should give a handy economic boost early game too, and generally make expanding with small bases easy.(click to show/hide)
Thoughts?
-1 Police is almost irrelevant with no ability to go PS, at -1 you can't Nerve Staple (which is almost never worth it anyway, too much economic loss unless war with everyone) and that's it. Under FM, it's -6 rather than -5, which have the same effects. Most factions would mind a little because with FM+PS you're at -4 (Extra drone for each military unit away from territory) rather than -3 (Extra drone for each military unit away from territory after first), but that's impossible for these guys. -2 Police would stop them using Police right away, which gives them a meaningful penalty.
Probe negatives are generally much more important on subversion than information control, do you want this faction to be easy to subvert? That seems kind of out of place.
Seems mostly balanced overall, though I'd consider:
Making Police -2
Removing Offense and Probe bonuses.
Adding in immunity to Mind Control.
Post by: Sigma on August 02, 2013, 11:06:26 AM
How about if I replace the free Rec Commons with raising the Hab Complex limit? That one sort of serves as a double edged sword-- with their growth and police penalty they need to really build up their infrastructure to avoid Drone problems.
-2 Police sounds fair. I can drop the Probe penalty altogether, maybe replace it with increased Probe Costs?
So we're looking at:
+1 Growth
-2 Police
+50% Probe Costs
Double Votes
+15% Offense
Exceed Hab Complex by 2
How does that look?
I appreciate your input on these, you've been very helpful.
Post by: ete on August 02, 2013, 11:27:37 AM
Perhaps.. Penalty: Free Market would be fitting enough and useful for balance?
Balance reasoning: At -2 Police already, the drop to Police power from FM becomes much less significant and running FM is extremely appealing (I've tested this using the Dreams of Earth (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Dreams_of_Earth) and New University Commonwealth (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/New_University_Commonwealth)). This makes FM an excessively good SE choice and makes their one major penalty irrelevant. Giving Penalty:Free Market would mean that these guys would have very serious worm problems under FM.
Flavor reasoning: They're fierce liberty defenders and in a free market economy would not allow their government to intervene at all in environmental matters, creating a tragedy of the commons on an even larger scale than other factions.
And no problem, it's fun trying to figure out how to balance these. Also, I look forward to finishing/improving my automatic faction power calculator using all these new and balanced factions people are making.
Post by: Sigma on August 02, 2013, 11:31:23 AM
Okay about Offense, and hm.. bigger bases may make more sense, though it does start to look a lot like Lal with double votes+size 9 bases. And I'd imagine these guys are pretty good at subverting opponents, at least as good as other baseline factions, so extra probe cost seems a bit odd, but they do need more of a penalty than just the Police considering they have four useful but not amazing bonuses.Clever idea with the Free Market penalty. If you think about who these people are, they are the ones who are most likely to suffer under a Free Market system vs a Planned (i.e. Socialist) system, which was the whole point behind Occupy Wallstreet in the first place. If they go Free Market they'll tear themselves apart with social unrest.
Perhaps.. Penalty: Free Market would be fitting enough and useful for balance?
Balance reasoning: At -2 Police already, the drop to Police power from FM becomes much less significant and running FM is extremely appealing (I've tested this using the Dreams of Earth (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Dreams_of_Earth) and New University Commonwealth (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/New_University_Commonwealth)). This makes FM an excessively good SE choice and makes their one major penalty irrelevant. Giving Penalty:Free Market would mean that these guys would have very serious worm problems under FM.
Flavor reasoning: They're fierce liberty defenders and in a free market economy would not allow their government to intervene at all in environmental matters, creating a tragedy of the commons on an even larger scale than other factions.
And no problem, it's fun trying to figure out how to balance these. Also, I look forward to finishing/improving my automatic faction power calculator using all these new and balanced factions people are making.
I'll drop the Probe penalty in favor of that, and maybe abandon the Votes in exchange for Mind Control immunity. What do you think about that?
Post by: ete on August 02, 2013, 11:56:04 AM
Clever idea with the Free Market penalty. If you think about who these people are, they are the ones who are most likely to suffer under a Free Market system vs a Planned (i.e. Socialist) system, which was the whole point behind Occupy Wallstreet in the first place. If they go Free Market they'll tear themselves apart with social unrest.That sounds good to me. MC immunity is a fairly big deal and may push them over to being mildly unbalanced, but it seems more fitting and would be a nice reason to use them, and differentiates them from Lal well. Worth trying them like this, and if they seem too strong drop some bonus? Maybe the Hab Complex thing?
I'll drop the Probe penalty in favor of that, and maybe abandon the Votes in exchange for Mind Control immunity. What do you think about that?
Post by: Sigma on August 02, 2013, 12:26:38 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 02, 2013, 06:10:47 PM
(click to show/hide)
Post by: ete on August 03, 2013, 11:34:08 AM
Also it talks about the university in the comments bit at the top, maybe you want to edit that out.
Post by: Sigma on August 03, 2013, 12:00:42 PM
You're missing a # in front of FACTIONTRUCE on the Technos which freezes the game on load.Oooh, good catch. I'll fix that.
Also it talks about the university in the comments bit at the top, maybe you want to edit that out.
Post by: Geo on August 03, 2013, 07:04:13 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 05, 2013, 04:55:27 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 05, 2013, 05:00:59 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 05, 2013, 05:12:42 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 05, 2013, 05:55:42 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 05, 2013, 01:24:16 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 05, 2013, 04:04:35 PM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 05, 2013, 04:05:50 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 07, 2013, 03:15:20 PM
(click to show/hide)
How's it look?
EDIT: What do we think about the name "Genearch" or "Genarch" for the Faction noun? It's a portmanteau of Gene and the suffix Arch, signifying rulership. Only problem is that I like the sound of "GENE-arch" better but the spelling makes it look like it would rhyme with Research of with "monarch".
Post by: Geo on August 07, 2013, 04:01:09 PM
After all basic functions are tailored, it's pretty genes that are in demand. ;)
Post by: ete on August 07, 2013, 09:00:45 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 07, 2013, 09:03:04 PM
hm, from a balance perspective.. I'd say that faction is likely to be a bit weak. -2 Growth is a fairly notable penalty, making pop booms impossible without a Golden Age (though GAs are easier with the bonus talents), and slowing earlygame expansion a whole lot. Bonus talent and free bio labs are nice, but not a big deal, and while +2 Morale will help a lot against worms and give a solid army, it's not a strong enough pull to make me think I'd want to use this faction over, say, the Spartans who have bonuses which mesh well with Morale. I don't think they need a large boost to be on the same level, another minor bonus would do it imo, perhaps +1 Effic? And maybe adding a bonus colony pod in to help their otherwise stunted early growth?How about I drop Growth to -1 and give them free Recycling Tanks as well as the Bio Lab?
Alternately I could give them a Techcost bonus, which makes thee Genarchs the mirror images of the Technocrats (which makes sense thematically); however would that make them too similar, as both of them have research bonus but penalties to their growth (Technocrats have a tightened Hab Complex bottleneck)? I don't want to give them an Efficiency bonus because the Techies already have that covered and as I said before I want to avoid duplicating bonuses and penalties.
EDIT: Realistically the Genarchs and Technocrats should hate each other because they have antithetical views on human evolution, but the social engineering isn't really granular enough to make that work until you get to Future Society.
Post by: ete on August 07, 2013, 09:12:58 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 07, 2013, 09:17:25 PM
Dropping the Growth bonus to -1 on its own would be at least enough of a boost, maybe making them just a little a bit too strong with that as the only disadvantage imo. Giving free rec tanks and leaving -2 Growth would work fairly well probably, getting their bases up and running faster/cheaper, but still growing significantly slower than others. Which is fair because they have nice Morale for a strong army and later on have good research.
Then I'll go with +2 Morale, -2 Growth, 1/4 Talents, Free Recycling Tanks and Free Bio Labs.
EDIT: This means the only benefit I didn't use is +Economy, which I think is pretty fair given how powerful it can be. I think I pulled it off pretty well!
Post by: ete on August 07, 2013, 09:23:12 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 07, 2013, 09:26:54 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 07, 2013, 09:29:26 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 07, 2013, 10:28:13 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 07, 2013, 10:34:39 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 08, 2013, 01:53:13 PM
Proposal: what about if I change the Colonial Authority's penalty from -2 Research to -2 Planet, with the justification being that they are unconcerned with preserving planet's ecosystem? Alternately I could split the difference and go -1 Research and -1 Planet. This means that the Authority won't have their tech growth completely retarded, which is a bit of a concern.
Post by: ete on August 08, 2013, 02:05:18 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 08, 2013, 02:33:39 PM
If you dropped their Research penalty, none would have negative research, no? -1 each could work.I don't mind not having every single base covered like that, and it feels to me that -Planet is more manageable than -Research for a faction like the Authority. Having that penalty works for Miriam because she is built to blitzkrieg the other factions, but I feel like the Authority's should play a slightly slower Yang-like game (though I have no idea if this actually would play like this until I start playing), so penalizing their research is more crippling.
Post by: ete on August 08, 2013, 04:12:17 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 08, 2013, 04:37:54 PM
hm, I agree that Research is a bigger penalty than Planet, but it also seems more fitting. I think -2s need a pretty strong justification, and Colonial Authority don't seem to have a strong enough one for that. Also, having -1 each makes capturing worms possible before lategame, makes FM slightly less crippling, which brings nice variety. Bear in mind Yang has poor research due to the -1 energy per base from -2 econ, that's bigger than the 10% slow from -1 Research until the average base is producing 10 energy.To say nothing of Yang's efficiency problems due to his preference for Police State also killing his ability to generate income. Basque is likely to suffer the same problems if she goes with Police State, though her ideology doesn't require it. Combined with the heavy Research penalty she's liable to be stuck in the dark ages, and since she doesn't get free Perimeter Defenses like Yang does, she doesn't have quite the same sticktoitiveness. Ultimately, the two factions really have nothing in common save for the Authority having a predilection for despotism, so it's not really fair for me to say "I want the Basque to play like Yang!" and then make them nothing alike.
I'll go with -1 Research and -1 Planet then and see how they fair. I think at the very least they will be more fun to play as.
Post by: ete on August 08, 2013, 04:47:14 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 08, 2013, 04:48:36 PM
Sounds good. Yang's got an immunity to inefficiency though, so he can run PS/Planned without problems, though he rarely gets positive efficiency.Oh that's right, I forgot that they added that into SMAX.
Oh and I also changed the Authority's starting tech to Doctrine: Mobility. Being able to field high mobility units for the purpose of establishing contact with other factions would be important for Basque.
Post by: ete on August 08, 2013, 05:42:26 PM
Process:
Type faction name into search bar, search, hit create page, copy example http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Template:FactionInfoBox, (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Template:FactionInfoBox,) paste it into the page, add faction stats, add any extra stuff you want below that, save page. Then click the red link to the faction text and copy/paste that in, surrounded by the same code as in other faction text files. I'll do all the graphics in a bulk upload.
Also, let me know if you have any issues editing or logging into the wiki.
Post by: Sigma on August 08, 2013, 06:09:38 PM
EDIT: All factions have been uploaded; I'll include the txt files when I get home, as well as the graphics for the Technocrats.
Post by: ete on August 08, 2013, 09:23:46 PM
Also, link http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Category:Sigma%27s_factions (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Category:Sigma%27s_factions) from the OP!
Post by: Sigma on August 09, 2013, 04:01:34 PM
Let me know your thoughts. I usually key into a leader's personality when I write his or her sentences, but I had a harder time this go around. Does their ideology come through strong enough?
(click to show/hide)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 09, 2013, 04:10:12 PM
Reminds me of the SMAniaC faction, Genesis. -All creepy genetic engineering...
Post by: Sigma on August 09, 2013, 04:21:05 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 09, 2013, 05:16:47 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 09, 2013, 05:18:45 PM
I've had Maniac's permission to post SMAniaC to Downloads here for forever, and have been remiss... I made and/or tarted up the art for most of the custom factions in the Platinum Edition at the link.
Edit: done.
Post by: Sigma on August 09, 2013, 06:48:15 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 09, 2013, 08:14:19 PM
Maniac's a member here, so...
Post by: Geo on August 09, 2013, 11:01:52 PM
Maniac's a member here, so...
Not a very active one from the look of things. ;)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 09, 2013, 11:25:02 PM
Post by: Geo on August 10, 2013, 11:53:41 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 12, 2013, 10:42:54 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 13, 2013, 02:48:12 AM
Do you have an un-defensed version? I may want to make some tweaks on them, but otherwise they're great! What game did you get them from?
Post by: JarlWolf on August 13, 2013, 03:26:54 AM
As for the defences, I hated doing those walls, I find vanilla style walls are ugly for custom factions and hard to put in place. Very difficult to do and its generally not that great of results.
If you want, I can make more appropriate walls if you want, they'll look better and go with the theme.
And there should be two whole rows of ones without defences.
Post by: Sigma on August 13, 2013, 03:38:44 AM
And yeah it took me a second to realize that I could just copy the first and fourth rows. Awesome!
Post by: JarlWolf on August 13, 2013, 03:46:08 AM
I'm glad you like it though. My only request is you put my logo on the pallete, I forgot to do it. Just put in collaboration with
(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m494/JarlWolf/ACSignature_zps10f084ca.png)
(Just copy it into the thing, on the side.)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 13, 2013, 03:48:28 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 13, 2013, 03:53:26 AM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 13, 2013, 04:02:14 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 13, 2013, 04:06:32 AM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 13, 2013, 04:25:52 AM
Fellers, you gotta read all the articles. They're a pretty complete course, by design.
Post by: Geo on August 13, 2013, 05:23:40 PM
Fellers, you gotta read all the articles. They're a pretty complete course, by design.
Patience, grasshopper... :read:
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 13, 2013, 05:53:05 PM
-Also, you're welcome.
Post by: Sigma on August 13, 2013, 09:35:20 PM
I'll update her portrait sometime in the future to try and fix that discoloration under her jaw, but for now I think I'm going to move on to Apollo Industries.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 13, 2013, 09:41:26 PM
;)
Post by: Sigma on August 13, 2013, 09:55:02 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 13, 2013, 11:25:37 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 14, 2013, 03:26:22 AM
They are, and my eyesight going doesn't help, so never mind. I can make out traces when I lean in and squint. I'd have sworn that the .png format didn't used to distort the image so much...I exported the pcx to png using 0 compression but there's still some quality loss.
Post by: Kilkakon on August 14, 2013, 03:28:08 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 15, 2013, 03:22:34 AM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 15, 2013, 03:28:57 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 16, 2013, 02:33:43 PM
Post by: Geo on August 16, 2013, 02:35:46 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2013, 02:38:11 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 16, 2013, 02:42:17 PM
I think they're hella-smart looking. They also have the virtue of growing the way real buildings do, not simply scaling up like the official factions.That's because I modified them in reverse! I started with the Size 4 base and erased components down to size 1, while also gradually reducing their size as well.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2013, 02:45:46 PM
I don't think it's something the player notices or cares, mind, and that the Firaxis way is entirely acceptable - but attention to details like that certainly impresses me. You've probably already found that it's a little annoying to see another artist do sloppy work, so this is good.
Post by: Sigma on August 16, 2013, 03:04:51 PM
Post by: Geo on August 16, 2013, 03:06:14 PM
I do see it's from the Green faction.
Post by: Sigma on August 16, 2013, 03:07:10 PM
I don't think I ever build that building in Anno 2070...Which is kind of ironic given that I gave it to the faction of self-centered industrialists.
I do see it's from the Green faction.
Post by: Geo on August 16, 2013, 03:09:20 PM
Which is kind of ironic given that I gave it to the faction of self-centered industrialists.
Oh, there must be some entrepeneurs with an eye for architectural beauty. :D
Post by: Sigma on August 16, 2013, 03:13:32 PM
Which fits the persona of the leader. He's named after the main character of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead, which depicts him as a visionary architect whose ideas are too radical for the society in which he lives. It's objectivist drivel, but it's a powerful ideology in our modern world, and if an AC2 was ever made Firaxis/2K/whoever would be remiss not to include a faction like this.Which is kind of ironic given that I gave it to the faction of self-centered industrialists.
Oh, there must be some free enterprises with an eye for architectural beauty. :D
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2013, 03:15:45 PM
Oh - problem I only just noticed. Those bases are lit from the left. The sun is always on the right in AC - always.
Post by: Sigma on August 16, 2013, 03:17:56 PM
That's John Gault?John Galt is from Atlus Shrugs. The main character of The Fountainhead is Howard Roark.
Oh - problem I only just noticed. Those bases are lit from the left. The sun is always on the right in AC - always.
And that's a good catch. I'll mirror the bases so that the lighting is correct.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2013, 03:25:16 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 16, 2013, 03:35:31 PM
All I've read is Anthem, but I thought the philosophy therein was simplistic to the point of childishness.I haven't read Anthem, but the two main issues with Ayn Rand's approach to objectivism is that a.) her antagonists are strawmen to the point of completely nullifying any argument she could make and b.) the only way for her to justify her plot is by creating a universe which bears no practical resemblance to reality in order to make her characters both objectively correct and present obstacles to them that do not exist in the real world.
Her books would be fun to read if it weren't for the fact that people take so seriously as to name their children after her and base political movements around her philosophy.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2013, 03:42:22 PM
It's an immature philosophy based in a dichotomous world view and wishful thinking.
Post by: Sigma on August 16, 2013, 05:45:14 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2013, 05:51:17 PM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 16, 2013, 10:00:30 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 17, 2013, 02:12:12 AM
Really proud of these graphics. Especially the logo!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 17, 2013, 02:30:15 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 17, 2013, 02:52:31 AM
Smart.
I don't think it's something the player notices or cares, mind, and that the Firaxis way is entirely acceptable - but attention to details like that certainly impresses me. You've probably already found that it's a little annoying to see another artist do sloppy work, so this is good.
Yeah, and its gladdening to see a person take time to differentiate the different size levels of bases, it makes them seem much more immersive and real.
And this player notices at least, and I am sure others do too.
Logo is looking very crisp and fitting.
Post by: Sigma on August 17, 2013, 03:05:38 AM
Ooh. I LIKE that logo. That's lookin' ready to sign.Thanks, I found it doing a google image search for "Art Deco Logo" with advance search set to find PNGs, since I was tired of having to deal with jpeg artifacts. The original logo read "Knowtropolis", but the Apollo logo works amazingly well.
Post by: Sigma on August 17, 2013, 07:02:49 PM
The base is a model of Kowloon Walled City, which I think fits perfect for a faction based on maximum population with minimal authority. Defenses are only partially done; I had to restructure the Size 4 perimeter defenses in order to accommodate the shape of the base.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 17, 2013, 07:29:37 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 18, 2013, 04:36:09 AM
Those bases would be improved by more shading in the back half - a little tedious, but not difficult, to do subtly.Hmmm how would I go about doing that?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 18, 2013, 04:45:21 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 18, 2013, 05:06:04 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 18, 2013, 05:08:58 AM
But yeah it does look a lot better.
Post by: Sigma on August 18, 2013, 05:27:39 AM
Post by: Kilkakon on August 18, 2013, 09:50:09 AM
Keep up the good work! I like the Apollo one a lot. :)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 19, 2013, 08:00:10 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 19, 2013, 05:26:29 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 19, 2013, 05:39:42 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 19, 2013, 06:08:42 PM
The leader is called the Proctor, and ideally has no authority of his own, but is merely an elected representative from the teeming masses of the Leviathan. The base model that I used is Kowloon Walled City, known for being one of the densest and most lawless populated urban areas in the world before it was demolished.
Members of the Leviathan identify themselves as part of a huge army of like-minded individuals, hence why I originally used a decapitated whale for their symbol. They aren't squeemish about violence (they get +15% Offense) and aren't big fans of authority. The faction color is a dark green.
How's that sound?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 19, 2013, 06:16:15 PM
I'll try to think of something along those lines.
Post by: Sigma on August 19, 2013, 06:23:05 PM
That sounds great. It's a pretty basic concept/ideology, and not quite where any faction I'm aware of is coming from - these guys would natural allies of the UN and the Drones, I think.Definitely friendly to the Drones as well as to the Data Angels, and to an extent to the UN. In this faction pack they're pitted potentially against the Colonial Authority, who are designed to have a preference towards Police State politics.
I'll try to think of something along those lines.
Post by: JarlWolf on August 19, 2013, 07:40:01 PM
My suggestion for their icon is maybe a fist strangling a serpent with a crown, or just the serpent being strangled. You could also do an angry styled fist too.
I could make something like that if you wish.
Post by: Sigma on August 19, 2013, 07:48:13 PM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 19, 2013, 07:55:45 PM
The leader and her prime citizens have themselves cloned and the clones form up the majority of the population and they slave away so that their original masters live like gods.
And their symbol, them being aqautic (among other reasons) is an octopus.
Post by: ete on August 19, 2013, 07:57:20 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 19, 2013, 07:58:04 PM
That's kind of hilarious, because one of my factions, The Sons of Oceanus, is a faction based on the pursuit of happiness and luxury, or essentially "The 1% Faction."What are their stats, out of curiosity?
The leader and her prime citizens have themselves cloned and the clones form up the majority of the population and they slave away so that their original masters live like gods.
And their symbol, them being aqautic (among other reasons) is an octopus.
Post by: JarlWolf on August 19, 2013, 08:02:48 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 19, 2013, 11:40:42 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 21, 2013, 02:36:06 PM
Can you tell that the leaderhead is hispanic?
Post by: Geo on August 21, 2013, 03:09:40 PM
Can you tell that the leaderhead is hispanic?
For all intents and purposes, she could even be Belgian. :D
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 21, 2013, 03:54:20 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 21, 2013, 04:01:30 PM
Still need bases though...
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 21, 2013, 04:07:07 PM
Shining towers of science. Much more shiny and towering if there's a Nazi element - RL research facilities outside academia tend to have a rather bland high-end office facility look...
Post by: Sigma on August 22, 2013, 04:44:04 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 22, 2013, 04:45:38 AM
Post by: Kilkakon on August 22, 2013, 04:46:25 AM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 22, 2013, 04:47:54 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 22, 2013, 12:23:18 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 22, 2013, 06:23:35 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 22, 2013, 06:48:19 PM
Oh and I've got the bases picked out, working on getting them cropped and fitted.
Post by: Sigma on August 23, 2013, 02:51:46 AM
Bases are again from Anno 2070.
Post by: JarlWolf on August 23, 2013, 02:53:02 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 23, 2013, 02:57:47 AM
Next on the list is touching up earlier files (I want to redo the Technocrat bases) and assigning custom bases to the Authority and the Sons of the Advent.
Post by: Kilkakon on August 23, 2013, 03:12:17 AM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 23, 2013, 03:14:32 AM
Genome Syndicate graphics complete!NICCCEE.
Bases are again from Anno 2070.
Post by: Sigma on August 23, 2013, 12:27:41 PM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 23, 2013, 01:13:46 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 23, 2013, 01:20:16 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 24, 2013, 12:08:20 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 24, 2013, 12:17:31 AM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 24, 2013, 01:01:19 AM
Post by: JarlWolf on August 24, 2013, 01:12:29 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 24, 2013, 02:42:25 AM
I'd say the problem is all the tan color - have you tested to see how it looks in-game?I feel the same. What color would you suggest? Blue? That's their faction color.
Post by: JarlWolf on August 24, 2013, 02:49:09 AM
Edit: In short I am weak and tired and a walking puke machine made out of meat, but I'll still help. Give it a few hours and it should go away.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 24, 2013, 03:03:06 AM
I think the biggest part of the crapulence of the tan is that the shields are just lost against it - Jarl's suggestion of a metallic steel color is probably sound. If you have too much trouble getting the tan parts to select neatly, it may be best to copy the bases, erase the parts that aren't tan, then paste back after you've altered the colors - you can back up and try multiple things that way, too.
Key to getting the metallic shine is cranking the contrast high enough that some details almost wash out - you want some bluishness, but not at a high color saturation. (Yellow with a touch of greenish or orangeish, depending, for gold, of course, and redder for bronze/copper.) Do some trial and error experimentation - that's how we all learned. You're a quick study who will get this down pretty fast.
Post by: JarlWolf on August 24, 2013, 03:06:14 AM
Jarl. Do take care of yourself, okay?
Haha... yeah.
I'll try my best.
As for you Sigma, do you use GIMP+Paint or another program like photoshop? I can't remember. If you use GIMP I can help you by specific instruction.
Post by: Sigma on August 24, 2013, 03:16:25 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 24, 2013, 03:42:33 AM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 24, 2013, 03:45:34 AM
Post by: Dio on August 24, 2013, 04:03:09 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 24, 2013, 04:08:58 AM
Revised Authority graphics! These look much better! Thanks for the suggestions Jarlwolf and BU!
Now I'll just take one final look at the Technocrats and be ready to pack these up!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 24, 2013, 04:15:12 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 24, 2013, 04:19:16 AM
I should also be able to produce a file with the bases that I cropped and modified from Anno 2070.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 24, 2013, 04:20:24 AM
Post by: Geo on August 24, 2013, 01:35:36 PM
It's a great looking base set.
Post by: Sigma on August 25, 2013, 04:10:08 AM
Post by: Yitzi on August 25, 2013, 04:40:07 AM
Interesting fact I discovered during my initial tests: The "Convoy Resources" command is tied to Industrial Automation, so if you give a faction a Supply Crawler at the start of the game without having that Tech, it's useless!
My testing suggests that is not true. What may be confusing you, though, is that the "Convoy Resources" command is tied to the crawler's home base; if it is independent (which all starting units are) it's useless until you assign it a home base.
Post by: Sigma on August 25, 2013, 04:40:58 AM
A ha! Very clever. I'll try that out.Interesting fact I discovered during my initial tests: The "Convoy Resources" command is tied to Industrial Automation, so if you give a faction a Supply Crawler at the start of the game without having that Tech, it's useless!
My testing suggests that is not true. What may be confusing you, though, is that the "Convoy Resources" command is tied to the crawler's home base; if it is independent (which all starting units are) it's useless until you assign it a home base.
Post by: Yitzi on August 25, 2013, 04:48:44 AM
A ha! Very clever.
Not that clever. Basically what happened was: I used a saved test-game to test it, and convoy worked, then I started a new game and it didn't (but it still showed up in the actions menu, which tech-disabled actions generally don't), so I gave myself industrial automation and it still didn't work, so I thought "what's the difference between the two games" and then realized that the supply crawler in the second game was independent, so I assigned a home base and it worked.
Post by: Sigma on August 26, 2013, 05:37:35 PM
--The Technocrats are fairly weak until they gain access to the right social engineering. Right now I'm running Police State/Planned/Knowledge and it's a really powerful combination
--As planned, Satori seems to enjoy making friends with everyone, which puts them pretty squarely at the top of the leaderboards
-The Genome Syndicate is a.) really aggressive and b.) stronger than they look. The Morale boost means they fight very well and their extra talents make them really good builders. I've only just surpassed them as the Techies after cutting through half of the Advent's territory, and they've been in the lead the whole game so far.
-Apollonians is a really dumb name. I need to come up with something better. I thought of maybe "Apollomen"?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 26, 2013, 05:54:17 PM
It's really an excellent fit, provided one gets the reference and it falls on the ear right.
Hmm. I don't know Objectivism well enough to have the terminology that fits pop into my head, but you might read the Wikipedia on it for inspiration? Cato the Yonger led a movement the name of which escapes me atm, but he was Rand 2,000 literal years before Rand. They talked about things like something being a Right Action. You might google Cato and look into that for less obvious inspiration.
Post by: ete on August 26, 2013, 06:07:35 PM
As for Genome, perhaps making their bio labs depend on the tech for bio labs would slow them a fair amount? And/or making them get fewer bonus talents, maybe Talent: 5 or 6? Alternatively, leave those and drop morale to +1?
Post by: Sigma on August 26, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
All results seem fairly fitting, I guess the Technos having a poor start due to the Morale should be no surprise. Most of their bonuses are geared towards the long term. And yea, PS/Planned giving only -1 effic must be nice.When you combine it with Knowledge it's a net 0 for Efficiency, which is pretty amazing actually. I was really struggling until I unlocked Cyberethics and now I'm steamrolling Joaquin.
Quote
As for Genome, perhaps making their bio labs depend on the tech for bio labs would slow them a fair amount? And/or making them get fewer bonus talents, maybe Talent: 5 or 6? Alternatively, leave those and drop morale to +1?I'll try playing as the Genarchs before I nerf them. I think the Authority may need a buff though, they seem to have a real hard time getting started. That may just be the AI not knowing how to play them though.
As far as the Biolabs are concerned, I thought that FACILITY is dependent upon getting the tech? Or is that FREEFAC?
Post by: ete on August 26, 2013, 06:41:21 PM
And that's surprising about it getting 0 effic.. I'd have expected it to go like: -2 (Planned) -2 (PS) +1 (know) +1 (faction)=-2, then halve that number to get -1 still?
Post by: Sigma on August 26, 2013, 06:44:56 PM
FREEFAC is the one which requires tech (FACILITY does not), now we have a handy reference: http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Faction.txt_editing_guide (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Faction.txt_editing_guide) :)Actually you are correct! My mistake. It's still not hurting too badly though. I imagine the omniscent AIs that manage the Technocrat government are steaming at trying to compensate.
And that's surprising about it getting 0 effic.. I'd have expected it to go like: -2 (Planned) -2 (PS) +1 (know) +1 (faction)=-2, then halve that number to get -1 still?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 26, 2013, 07:02:44 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 26, 2013, 11:39:00 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 28, 2013, 01:38:57 AM
Changes:
-The Sons of the Advent have been renamed The Advent Pilgrimage, with their faction noun being "Pilgrims". Before they were simply called The Advent. This was done because there are two other factions that have nouns beginning with "A"-- the Apollonians and the Authority, in addition to a desire to reduce the number of factions with singlular nouns serving as plurals
(i.e The Authority, Satori and Leviathan).
-Leaderhead for the Technocrats has been revised.
Future Improvements:
-Technocrat bases need to be revised.
-The secondary and tertiary pcxs are incomplete for all factions.
-Balancing
Post by: ete on August 28, 2013, 02:23:06 AM
Post by: Sigma on August 28, 2013, 09:37:52 PM
Post by: Sigma on August 30, 2013, 01:32:02 PM
In other matters, the Leviathan running Democratic and Planned is hilariously awesome, but on higher difficulties the drones are just completely unmanageable.
Post by: Yitzi on August 30, 2013, 03:34:57 PM
In other matters, the Leviathan running Democratic and Planned is hilariously awesome, but on higher difficulties the drones are just completely unmanageable.
You'll probably need to build every drone control facility you can and either set psych higher or make psych-based specialists. (Which will detract from your productivity and growth potential; higher difficulties are supposed to be hard.)
Post by: Sigma on August 30, 2013, 03:57:31 PM
Post by: Sigma on September 02, 2013, 03:26:34 PM
Now they're running +2 Support, +1 Police, -1 Research, -2 Planet. In other words they are sort of a modified, reverse Believers with a greater emphasis on defense and security rather than attack.
Post by: ete on September 18, 2013, 01:15:36 PM
The Pilgrims rolled over first the Technocrats, then Apollos and Geneachs, then the Authority before I ran into them (all were restarted except the Authority) before I had much contact with them. I had pretty nice land (loads of Nut bonuses and rivers), and have been testing out the whole mass forest former heavy opening EM talks about, focusing massively on builder techs. The Body was my only contact for ages, I border pushed them to a chokepoint and gave in to their threats of 50-20 ECs or a tech to keep them from attacking me and forcing me to get some military tech (I was high on the leaderboard, but had nothing but scout patrols and a few unity rovers for a very long time so they wanted to fight).
Lack of Planned held me up a bit, and the opening was a little slow due to support issues and morale.. but once I got trading, wow. These guys are amazing. I'm running Demo/Green/Wealth and 20% Psych which gives GAs everywhere for +2 Econ. Managed to get almost all the worthwhile SPs (Pilgrims got the command nexus, but it was a size two coastal base so I mind controlled it). I also freed the Authority and have pacted with everyone bar the Pilgrims. Actually, I've never been at war with anyone else this game.. and my bases are getting crazy stuff like +17 energy from commerce per pact, which is like 85 energy per base in the big ones.
The Morale/elite issue is because you're using morale modifier rather than a SE setting, swap that around and it should work properly.
Post by: Sigma on September 19, 2013, 09:12:20 PM
Post by: Nexii on September 19, 2013, 11:46:36 PM
Edit: Leviathan is also really weak and needs a boost. -2 POLICE without any offsets to control drones is very crippling on Transcend. Having to make Rec Commons at every base before it hits size 2 is just too slow.
Post by: Sigma on September 20, 2013, 02:28:12 AM
Post by: ete on September 20, 2013, 12:19:54 PM
Sounds like you had fun! So is it your opinion that I need to tone down their trading abilities?ehh... for human V human play, you often have a lot less trading ability, and they do miss out on Planned/would have a very hard time if they started next to an aggressive faction.. In the hands of humans they're probably pretty top-notch against AI if you play it right, but then again AI generally are not too much of a problem.. I'd need more testing to be sure if they're too strong. I like the playstyle though, especially how strongly it encourages peace. In an entire game to Transcendence I had only one actual war (vs Pilgrims), plus a quick battle taking over the Apollo HQ by dropping some captured MWs off next to it forcing them to surrender for more sweet commerce. At all other times I was pacted or treatied with everyone.
Post by: Yitzi on September 22, 2013, 04:04:21 AM
Sounds like you had fun! So is it your opinion that I need to tone down their trading abilities?ehh... for human V human play, you often have a lot less trading ability
Not necessarily. After all, if they're good enough at trading (and the Satori are), they could probably simply pay someone to be their trading partners (plus maybe for military protection if said someone is a more military faction) and still come out ahead.
This assumes, of course, a decent number of players. In 1v1 it's essentially a zero-sum game, which makes win/win deals (which is what the Satori and Morganites are built around) not really work.
Post by: Nexii on September 22, 2013, 05:58:07 AM
The Leviathan's police penalty is serious on transcend, but at lower difficulties it's not nearly as big of a deal, whereas their growth and Hab Complex bonus is. If I just wrote these factions for Transcend then they wouldn't be as balanced below that, seeing as Transcend is sort of its own monster compared to Thinker.
You could give them NODRONE, 1 or something, that can work for starting POLICE SE at or below -2
Post by: Yitzi on September 22, 2013, 03:32:11 PM
The Leviathan's police penalty is serious on transcend, but at lower difficulties it's not nearly as big of a deal, whereas their growth and Hab Complex bonus is. If I just wrote these factions for Transcend then they wouldn't be as balanced below that, seeing as Transcend is sort of its own monster compared to Thinker.
You could give them NODRONE, 1 or something, that can work for starting POLICE SE at or below -2
Or just accept that they'll need a rec commons to grow much (good thing they start with the prerequisite), but once they have one they grow fairly easily.
Post by: ete on October 14, 2013, 06:04:36 PM
Post by: Mart on November 25, 2013, 11:38:11 AM
I downloaded the faction set from the first post. I have a question about Authority bonus settings:
TECH, Mobile, SOCIAL, +SUPPORT, SOCIAL, +POLICE, SOCIAL, -RESEARCH, FREEABIL, 21, DEFENSE, 115, 4, HURRY, 125, SOCIAL, -PLANET,
Is this intentional to have 4 in this declaration?:
DEFENSE, 115, 4,
or this is just a typo? Something left from writing other settings?
Post by: Yitzi on November 25, 2013, 02:20:05 PM
Post by: Mart on November 25, 2013, 03:54:54 PM
Looks like a typo.Most likely, parser, as far as I know, takes only one argument there. But SMACX can surprise after so many years.
Post by: JarlWolf on March 20, 2014, 01:45:21 AM
Post by: Sigma on May 01, 2014, 01:12:45 PM
As I posted in that thread, the point where I am in my life right now leaves me no time for lengthly projects like this set anymore, so I'm considering it open source and anyone can download and make changes to it. I'm still interested in there being a definitive set, so that's what I'd like to produce from this conversation.
Post by: ete on May 01, 2014, 03:13:23 PM
Post by: Sigma on May 01, 2014, 03:36:16 PM
The biggest thing that I know needs to be added is the tertiary faction graphics (i.e. the monument/leader capture graphics). Those haven't been done at all for any of the factions in the set. The only other graphical changes that I can think of is that the Technocrats could use a second pass on their bases.
The Genome Syndicate also needs another pass to balance them out with the rest of the factions, and Satori needs to have its lore revised to be more tonally consistent. The Syndicate could also use some work on this front.
Post by: ete on May 01, 2014, 04:34:49 PM
Post by: Sigma on May 01, 2014, 04:40:16 PM
Okay :). I'll see about making a full set of comments on current balance and other things next time I have internet and time. Main specific I remember is fixing Satori's morale to be a SE penalty to avoid the elite bug.Yeah I noticed that. The trouble though is that the Technocrats already have that penalty.
The reasoning behind laying it out this way is that if Satori got the SE penalty, then their Probe actions would be weakened off the bat, and if they go with Wealth instead of Power then their Probes are pretty much permanently gimped. I didn't want that since I envisioned them as a faction that is highly reliant on, and capable with, Probes and Espionage in general. On the other hand, the Technocrats are reliant on their research for their combat prowess, which makes them getting the -Morale penalty more logical. Of course this could be fixed if both factions got the penalty, but my express goal with the set was to avoid using the same bonuses and penalties on different factions.
Post by: Sigma on May 01, 2014, 05:40:08 PM
Okay so I uploaded the Zip file of my Faction set from last year when I (more or less) finished working on it. I don't think there are any errors in it, but I may be wrong and having another set of eyes look at the TXT files would be helpful. I think we can start with this as the baseline for moving from Beta to Final version.
Should we make a new thread about this?
Post by: ete on May 08, 2014, 12:43:03 AM
Pilgrims
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^+25% Bonus when attacking enemies, from strength of convictions.
^+1 PLANET: {Believe that Planet must be protected}
^-1 INDUSTRY: {Weak industrial base}
^+1 minerals in fungus squares
^All units gain Hypnotic Trance ability upon discovery of Secrets of the Human Brain
^Does not suffer negative social effects from Fundamentalist Politics: {Modern religious movement}
^{May not use Free Market Economics in Social Engineering.}
In my game these guys were actually pretty great, but I feel like that was mostly good starting position+taking over other factions who don't have a good start early with rush. They seem like they'd be moderately scary to start next to, but start to be a lot less threatening later unless they took someone's empire. The combination of two rush styles (worm and fanatic) would be much more dangerous if not for the Ind penalty and fanatic not applying to natives, as is it's nice but probably not too much to handle baring exceptional circumstances (you don't want to land right next to them in a big patch of fungus). Being able to run fundy is fairly cool/unique, and their advantages are nicely balanced by two big things which will slow them down later on (no FM, -1 Ind). Free Hypnotic Trance is nice for worm hunting/fighting other native factions, and +1 fungmins may occasionally help, but neither is going to make a big difference.
Balance: Probably fine. A bit rush heavy, but not more than Mirriam or Cha (and kinda a cross between the two in playstyle).
No proposed balance changes.
Everything fits flavorwise, I could see these guys getting a following (especially in timelines where Cha does not pop up to take in the radical Gaians). Maybe change the "Weak industrial base" to something more specific to how their society functions? And add in a reason for Hypnotic Trance/fungmins?
Genome
Quote
^-2 GROWTH: {Exacting population control}
^+2 MORALE: {Elite field operatives}
^1 additional talent for every 4 citizens: {Gene enhanced workers}
^Free Recycling Tanks at every base
^Free Biology Lab at every base with discovery of Centauri Empathy
^{May not choose Fundamentalist Politics}
These guys are potentially quite dangerous at all stages of the game. -2 growth hurts, especially a human going for pop boom, but even aside from the Morale boost which is a seriously underrated advantage (less so super late game, but being able to explore safely and win wars early is huge) they've got something great for every important part of the game. Right near the start those Rec Tanks are amazing. A little later that bonus Talent per 4 pop means you can delay building drone control facilities and/or invest less in psych, which is a pretty huge deal. Then when those advantages starts being a bit less significant in mid game Boom! Free Bio Labs for turbo research.
Balance: I don't think any one part of this is too much, but the combination of four good to great advantages, countered by only one bigish disadvantage (no fundy is irrelevant) looks like it needs something changed.
Balance suggestions:
Morale to +1: +2 morale is a bigger deal than I'd initially thought, look at sparta which takes a -1 Ind penalty and has this as its only major advantage.
If that's not enough (and it seems like it probably won't be), maybe give them some other mid level penalty? I'm not seeing amazing fits thematically, but possibly -1 Support (Resources invested in biomed at bases are not available for troops) or -10% energy interest (available funds poured into research). A smallish hurry penalty could be a good option, but still a bit hard to justify.
Flavorwise.. I think I like them more than most people will, but I'm pretty heavily biodeterministic over populations as a whole (did you know that levels of automobile lead emissions were found to explain 90% of the variability in violent crime in America? or having adequate iodine during pregnancy gives ~15-20 IQ?). If there was room, I'd love to expand them to more than just genetics, be more about optimizing human biology in general (e.g. performing mass-trials of different diets/nutrients on their population, experimenting with lots of different cognitive and physical performance enhancing drugs, iterated embryo selection, doing psychological/developmental research on every child and learning how to bring up basically everyone well-adjusted+intelligent). I think there's a lot of potential here, and they are (by my interpretation) supporting a pretty justifiable philosophy, there's just not enough space to explore/explain it fully in only the one faction quote. Maybe some tweaks to various parts of the faction to show this off would work?
Flavor suggestion: Swap out some references to genetics for general "make human biology work better with science" stuff.
Satori
Quote
^-1 SUPPORT: {Resources diverted to economic ventures}Closest parallel in the official factions would be Morgan, but these guys are way more extreme traders. Their ability to field an actual army is downright abysmal, but if they can get a few pacts their income is incredible. Super vulnerable unless they have allies to feed their trade and use probes a lot, but also scary if they really get going.. I think overall it comes out reasonably. Dropping commerce to +2 may be a good idea, especially in human hands, but it's probably okay as-is. Two notable advantages for probing (-25% cost and 2% interest) plus one conditionally really great one (commerce) makes them probably the best probers in the game, despite their morale penalty.
^-25% cost for Probe Actions {Extensive espionage network}
^Units deployed with -2 Morale penalty: {Averse to direct combat}
^Energy reserves gain +2% interest per turn
^Incresed commerce rate: {Experienced traders and merchants}
^{May not use Police State Politics.}
Oh, and that bug with Morale is kinda weird. I know you'd rather avoid doubling up on -2 Morale SE, but imo you should either do that or give a justification in the datalinks thing for your starting units being elite.
Possible changes:
Commerce to +2 - but probably fine as-is.
Flavor: I know you're not super happy with this one as-is.. one possibility would be to make it more family-focused? As in, the Satori family sets their members up as leaders/important advisors of lots of important businesses/organizations in both their own faction any anyone who'll sign treaties/pacts with them, by buying up/bribing/maybe a bit of blackmail and/or assassination when the opportunity arises (fits perfectly with the Probe angle). They then use this influence to get themselves the best contacts, and support each other/push out competitors (fits perfectly with the commerce/interest angle). Unlike Morgan who does similar things but believes in capitalism, the family believes in supporting the family and accumulating power. Their low level followers would be largely unaware of this side, and just think they're in with a group of exceptionally skilled traders/business people, but not be particularly committed to the cause so be unwilling to go die in a war (fits perfectly with negative morale and support).
Also, typo on "^Incresed commerce rate".
Technos
Quote
^+1 RESEARCH: {Focused on scientific advancement}I like the technos a lot. They're well balanced, fun to play, and have a sound philosophy. The only negative I could remotely point at them is their similarity to the University in values, but there's enough difference in fundamental aims to make that not a big deal (Uni wants to know for the sake of knowing, mostly science, Techno wants to know to make humans lives better through, mostly technology). Fun SE choices.
^+1 EFFIC: {Society regulated by artificial intelligence}
^-2 MORALE: {Reliant on technology rather than training}
^Free NETWORK NODE at every base
^Hab Complex requirements tightened to Size 5: {Digital infrastructure prioritized over civic}
^EFFICIENCY penalties reduced by half: {Computer assisted government}
^{May not use Power Values.}
Balance suggestions: None. They're good.
Leviathan
Quote
^+1 Growth: {Populist movement gathers supporters}Interesting faction.. Quite a few notable bonuses (growth, hab, offense, MC immune), but two potentially crippling disadvantages (FM is horrible with -10 Police and -6 Planet, and weak police+no PS). I *think* the fact that the growth/hab advantages make the police issues a huge problem may make it relatively fair, but I could see this being a monster in human hands. I'm tempted to suggest dropping one advantage, but this is a tricky one to judge without playing a few games with it. Likely not overpowered without heavy optimization (like rehoming to a Punishment Sphere/all specialist base which is crawled a lot of mins), so probably fine for single player games at least.
^-2 POLICE: {Distrust of law enforcement}
^+15% Offense: {Activists willing to fight for cause}
^Can exceed Hab Complex requirements by 2
^Bases and Units cannot be Mind Controlled: {Strong willed followers}
^Suffers double penalties from Free Market Economics
^{May not choose Police State Politics}
Balance suggestions: Could drop one advantage, but it's probably not necessary/may make it too annoying to play.
Authority
Quote
^+1 SUPPORT: {Well funded military}hmm.. I think these guys will struggle a bit. They're not exactly weak, being able to get +3 support is good and +15% def/NLM on everything later is cool. However, they are definitely not builders thanks to those hurry and research penalties, exploring also kinda sucks with -1 Planet and expensive/normal morale units, and worst of all they can't really rush that well. I mean, it's not going to be the worst rush (+1 support is eh until you get fundy or power, though defense boost is fun), but it's also not going to be a great rush because units cost more, you lose more to worms, are likely behind on research, and your main advantages come either too late or are just not important enough early on to offset the problems. Altogether this leaves them as a faction who won't die very quickly, but they also don't excel at anything other than being fairly resilient against rushes... which is not that great. I think you could potentially drop their biggest penalty (hurry cost) and end up with a still perfectly fair, and much more fun, faction. Maybe set it to 110%.. but maybe it can just go. It does not fit the flavor that well either.
^+1 POLICE: {Strict legal system}
^-1 RESEARCH: {Resources divereted to military spending
^-1 PLANET: {Unconcerned with preserving native ecosystem}
^All units gain Non-Lethal Methods upon discovery of Intellectual Integrity
^+15% Defense: {Heavily equipped security forces}
^125% Hurry Cost: {Manufacturing neglected due to enlistment}
Balance suggestions: Reduce the hurry penalty to 110% or drop it entirely. These guys could use a boost.
Flavor: Yea, this is a faction which could get traction on Planet. Again, it'd be nice to be able to expand on them more, but oh well. A bit similar to sparta in how they'd be run, but different founding philosophy/playstyle so it's fine.
Apollo
Quote
^+1 INDUSTRY: {Well motivated work force}mm.. two powerful bonuses with good synergy (hurry and Ind), plus a handy bonus supply crawler at start (superfast SP potentially). But nothing else positive, and all three penalties work together to frustrate you with effic+bdrone+drone problems. It's a fairly novel combination, but I think likely to be close to balanced. AI may struggle with drones though, and lategame efficiency will be nightmarish.
^-1 EFFICIENCY: {Internal economic competition}
^Free Supply Crawler at Planetfall
^Extra Drone per 3 Citizens: {No social safety net}
^85% Hurry Costs: {Fully staffed factories}
^{May not choose Green Economics}
Balance suggestion: Switching to extra drone per 4 citizens may be better, but either way should be okay.
Flavor stuff makes sense, but only if you have a background knowledge of objectiveism. Which you can probably assume from AC players luckily :).
Post by: Sigma on May 08, 2014, 02:30:14 AM
Sorry for the delay, my internet was terrible and inconsistent where I was staying last and I knew this would take a while (on the plus side, the Taj Mahal is pretty cool). A new thread could be a good idea, up to you. Let's review the factions for balance.My thought process on their bonuses is cutting them to +1 Morale and taking away one of their two free facilities. My main problem is figuring out which one. Bio Labs is the easier one to go with, since they need to reach the requisite Tech first, and Tanks is the more useful of the two, but the problems are a.) it's harder to justify thematically than Bio Labs, which fit their characterization better, and b.) between that and the Talent bonus it makes them somewhat similar to the Peacekeepers. Tentatively, I'll go with keeping the Bio Lab and seeing how it impacts their performance.
Genome
These guys are potentially quite dangerous at all stages of the game. -2 growth hurts, especially a human going for pop boom, but even aside from the Morale boost which is a seriously underrated advantage (less so super late game, but being able to explore safely and win wars early is huge) they've got something great for every important part of the game. Right near the start those Rec Tanks are amazing. A little later that bonus Talent per 4 pop means you can delay building drone control facilities and/or invest less in psych, which is a pretty huge deal. Then when those advantages starts being a bit less significant in mid game Boom! Free Bio Labs for turbo research.
Balance: I don't think any one part of this is too much, but the combination of four good to great advantages, countered by only one bigish disadvantage (no fundy is irrelevant) looks like it needs something changed.
Balance suggestions:
Morale to +1: +2 morale is a bigger deal than I'd initially thought, look at sparta which takes a -1 Ind penalty and has this as its only major advantage.
If that's not enough (and it seems like it probably won't be), maybe give them some other mid level penalty? I'm not seeing amazing fits thematically, but possibly -1 Support (Resources invested in biomed at bases are not available for troops) or -10% energy interest (available funds poured into research). A smallish hurry penalty could be a good option, but still a bit hard to justify.
Flavorwise.. I think I like them more than most people will, but I'm pretty heavily biodeterministic over populations as a whole (did you know that levels of automobile lead emissions were found to explain 90% of the variability in violent crime in America? or having adequate iodine during pregnancy gives ~15-20 IQ?). If there was room, I'd love to expand them to more than just genetics, be more about optimizing human biology in general (e.g. performing mass-trials of different diets/nutrients on their population, experimenting with lots of different cognitive and physical performance enhancing drugs, iterated embryo selection, doing psychological/developmental research on every child and learning how to bring up basically everyone well-adjusted+intelligent). I think there's a lot of potential here, and they are (by my interpretation) supporting a pretty justifiable philosophy, there's just not enough space to explore/explain it fully in only the one faction quote. Maybe some tweaks to various parts of the faction to show this off would work?
Flavor suggestion: Swap out some references to genetics for general "make human biology work better with science" stuff.
That's some great input on their characteristics. I'll give that some thought, as I have some ideas on that front, including a better name than "Genome Syndicate."
Quote
SatoriI'm making that change, along with a matching change to the Technos, seen below.
Closest parallel in the official factions would be Morgan, but these guys are way more extreme traders. Their ability to field an actual army is downright abysmal, but if they can get a few pacts their income is incredible. Super vulnerable unless they have allies to feed their trade and use probes a lot, but also scary if they really get going.. I think overall it comes out reasonably. Dropping commerce to +2 may be a good idea, especially in human hands, but it's probably okay as-is. Two notable advantages for probing (-25% cost and 2% interest) plus one conditionally really great one (commerce) makes them probably the best probers in the game, despite their morale penalty.
Oh, and that bug with Morale is kinda weird. I know you'd rather avoid doubling up on -2 Morale SE, but imo you should either do that or give a justification in the datalinks thing for your starting units being elite.
Possible changes:
Commerce to +2 - but probably fine as-is.
Quote
Flavor: I know you're not super happy with this one as-is.. one possibility would be to make it more family-focused? As in, the Satori family sets their members up as leaders/important advisors of lots of important businesses/organizations in both their own faction any anyone who'll sign treaties/pacts with them, by buying up/bribing/maybe a bit of blackmail and/or assassination when the opportunity arises (fits perfectly with the Probe angle). They then use this influence to get themselves the best contacts, and support each other/push out competitors (fits perfectly with the commerce/interest angle). Unlike Morgan who does similar things but believes in capitalism, the family believes in supporting the family and accumulating power. Their low level followers would be largely unaware of this side, and just think they're in with a group of exceptionally skilled traders/business people, but not be particularly committed to the cause so be unwilling to go die in a war (fits perfectly with negative morale and support).So play up the espionage angle more then.
Also, typo on "^Incresed commerce rate".
The difference between Satori and Morgan can be summed up to "Morgan sees Power as a means to accumulate Wealth; Satori sees Wealth as a means to accumulate Power." I can work with this.
Quote
TechnosReflecting the change to the Satori SE, I'm switching their -2 Morale to -2 Support, on the grounds that military spending is diverted to R&D, pretty much the inverse of the Authority.
I like the technos a lot. They're well balanced, fun to play, and have a sound philosophy. The only negative I could remotely point at them is their similarity to the University in values, but there's enough difference in fundamental aims to make that not a big deal (Uni wants to know for the sake of knowing, mostly science, Techno wants to know to make humans lives better through, mostly technology). Fun SE choices.
Balance suggestions: None. They're good.
Quote
LeviathanActually, if you think about Penalty: Free Market, it's not that bad of a penalty for the Leviathan. Consider the following:
Interesting faction.. Quite a few notable bonuses (growth, hab, offense, MC immune), but two potentially crippling disadvantages (FM is horrible with -10 Police and -6 Planet, and weak police+no PS). I *think* the fact that the growth/hab advantages make the police issues a huge problem may make it relatively fair, but I could see this being a monster in human hands. I'm tempted to suggest dropping one advantage, but this is a tricky one to judge without playing a few games with it. Likely not overpowered without heavy optimization (like rehoming to a Punishment Sphere/all specialist base which is crawled a lot of mins), so probably fine for single player games at least.
Balance suggestions: Could drop one advantage, but it's probably not necessary/may make it too annoying to play.
- Free Market already carries the maximum penalties for Police and Planet, barring any mitigating bonuses
- The Leviathan's anti-ideology is Police State, which is the only source of +Police outside of Future Society choices or Secret Projects
- The only reliable source of +Planet apart from Future Society is Green economics, so it's impossible to mitigate a -6 Planet anyway until that point.
So frankly I don't think Penalty: Free Market is that much of a punishment beyond what Free Market normally incurs. I'm not really sure where that leaves the Body.
Quote
AuthorityInternally I'm already boosting their support to +2, which I think will be a big help, but removing the Hurry penalty may either or also be necessary. What do you think?
hmm.. I think these guys will struggle a bit. They're not exactly weak, being able to get +3 support is good and +15% def/NLM on everything later is cool. However, they are definitely not builders thanks to those hurry and research penalties, exploring also kinda sucks with -1 Planet and expensive/normal morale units, and worst of all they can't really rush that well. I mean, it's not going to be the worst rush (+1 support is eh until you get fundy or power, though defense boost is fun), but it's also not going to be a great rush because units cost more, you lose more to worms, are likely behind on research, and your main advantages come either too late or are just not important enough early on to offset the problems. Altogether this leaves them as a faction who won't die very quickly, but they also don't excel at anything other than being fairly resilient against rushes... which is not that great. I think you could potentially drop their biggest penalty (hurry cost) and end up with a still perfectly fair, and much more fun, faction. Maybe set it to 110%.. but maybe it can just go. It does not fit the flavor that well either.
Balance suggestions: Reduce the hurry penalty to 110% or drop it entirely. These guys could use a boost.
Flavor: Yea, this is a faction which could get traction on Planet. Again, it'd be nice to be able to expand on them more, but oh well. A bit similar to sparta in how they'd be run, but different founding philosophy/playstyle so it's fine.
Quote
ApolloI've already made the change of Drone/4 internally, which will be in the next Beta Pack.
mm.. two powerful bonuses with good synergy (hurry and Ind), plus a handy bonus supply crawler at start (superfast SP potentially). But nothing else positive, and all three penalties work together to frustrate you with effic+bdrone+drone problems. It's a fairly novel combination, but I think likely to be close to balanced. AI may struggle with drones though, and lategame efficiency will be nightmarish.
Balance suggestion: Switching to extra drone per 4 citizens may be better, but either way should be okay.
Flavor stuff makes sense, but only if you have a background knowledge of objectiveism. Which you can probably assume from AC players luckily :).
Post by: ete on May 08, 2014, 10:37:44 PM
My thought process on their bonuses is cutting them to +1 Morale and taking away one of their two free facilities. My main problem is figuring out which one. Bio Labs is the easier one to go with, since they need to reach the requisite Tech first, and Tanks is the more useful of the two, but the problems are a.) it's harder to justify thematically than Bio Labs, which fit their characterization better, and b.) between that and the Talent bonus it makes them somewhat similar to the Peacekeepers. Tentatively, I'll go with keeping the Bio Lab and seeing how it impacts their performance.Okay. Thinking more, I like the idea of hurry penalty (110%-120%?) quite a lot from a mechanics perspective, and authority may well lose theirs, so consider that too if fiddling with facilities does not do what you want.
That's some great input on their characteristics. I'll give that some thought, as I have some ideas on that front, including a better name than "Genome Syndicate."
So play up the espionage angle more then.Essentially, plus some "the only ones you can trust are the family" stuff. An organizational setup a bit like the modern day yakuza, who have a significant amount of legitimate business under their control and do pay some attention to PR (e.g. helping out in disasters), but also more than dabble in mildly to moderately illegal things for profit (drugs, prostitution, extortion), while making themselves too well integrated/not causing enough visible trouble for authorities to step in.
The difference between Satori and Morgan can be summed up to "Morgan sees Power as a means to accumulate Wealth; Satori sees Wealth as a means to accumulate Power." I can work with this.
Reflecting the change to the Satori SE, I'm switching their -2 Morale to -2 Support, on the grounds that military spending is diverted to R&D, pretty much the inverse of the Authority.I'm not sure about this.. -2 support is really nasty because it drastically weakens one of the best SE options in the game: Democratic. Admittedly the technos are not as synergistic with demo as most due to robust effic, but still. -4 Support means every unit costs 2 minerals to support. Even at times of peace, that's a huge deal just in terms of terraformers and the odd defender. Take a conservative 1-2 defenders, one exploration unit, and three terraformers for a mid-sized base. That's 10+ minerals per turn per base, without trying to build an army. Even a tiny base with one defender and one former loses 4 minerals, when its income is probably only 3-5.
You can drop demo or run demo+power, but power is ugly with that ind penalty, and PS.. PS has uses but no pop booms is eh. I think it could work, and would certainly add to their character as a faction with interesting SE options, but maybe they'd want some other small bonus to compensate for the loss of building ability. Lift the pop cap to 6 perhaps?
also, this is a cool thing i built a while back for easy SE effects reference: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhADYlhLMFj-dC1LNjhHOVMyNXU5c1J4ZDhUbVRxeUE&usp=sharing
Actually, if you think about Penalty: Free Market, it's not that bad of a penalty for the Leviathan. Consider the following:Planet actually does have negative effects beyond -3, it has a 10% penalty per stage reduction (see my handy SE effects table linked above), so at -6 levi would face a -60% penalty vs native combined with very high eco damage. Aside from struggling with natives (poor formers don't have a chance), other factions could easily exploit this if they ever went to war. Fighting expendable captured troops with -60% against +20% just because they went green is scary. FM is not unusable for them, but it comes with fairly significant costs.
- Free Market already carries the maximum penalties for Police and Planet, barring any mitigating bonuses
- The Leviathan's anti-ideology is Police State, which is the only source of +Police outside of Future Society choices or Secret Projects
- The only reliable source of +Planet apart from Future Society is Green economics, so it's impossible to mitigate a -6 Planet anyway until that point.
So frankly I don't think Penalty: Free Market is that much of a punishment beyond what Free Market normally incurs. I'm not really sure where that leaves the Body.
Internally I'm already boosting their support to +2, which I think will be a big help, but removing the Hurry penalty may either or also be necessary. What do you think?It'll help, but I don't think all that much. +1 support is great because it lets you hit the magic +3 (support up to base size free) with just one SE change (fundy or power), the difference between that and starting with +2 means: +1 mineral per base per turn if and only if you have 4+ units which need support, and don't have power or fundy. It's a help, but not a huge deal and won't let them rush well enough to compensate for builder issues. I'd suggest robust industry over that, which would let them run Power much more easily than anyone else and fits pretty nicely with their flavor. Even with robust ind, I'd still suggest at least reducing their hurry penalty a bit, if not dropping it.
I've already made the change of Drone/4 internally, which will be in the next Beta Pack.Okay :)
Post by: Sigma on May 09, 2014, 12:44:18 AM
Consider this though: at +2 Support, the Authority also has the option of running Democratic with net zero penalties. Does that count for something?Internally I'm already boosting their support to +2, which I think will be a big help, but removing the Hurry penalty may either or also be necessary. What do you think?It'll help, but I don't think all that much. +1 support is great because it lets you hit the magic +3 (support up to base size free) with just one SE change (fundy or power), the difference between that and starting with +2 means: +1 mineral per base per turn if and only if you have 4+ units which need support, and don't have power or fundy. It's a help, but not a huge deal and won't let them rush well enough to compensate for builder issues. I'd suggest robust industry over that, which would let them run Power much more easily than anyone else and fits pretty nicely with their flavor. Even with robust ind, I'd still suggest at least reducing their hurry penalty a bit, if not dropping it.
As for the Genarchs getting the -Hurry penalty, the justification could be simply the faction has an unmotivated work force due to their feeling of elitism. They're think they're too good to work overtime at the Hovertank factory.
Post by: ete on May 09, 2014, 01:35:51 AM
And yea, that sounds like a potential explanation.
Post by: Sigma on May 09, 2014, 02:35:48 PM
eh, the difference between -1 and 0 Support works out as one mineral per base per turn. It's not nothing, especially early on, but by the time you've got Demo as a faction with research issues a lot of your bases are probably big enough that this is not an immense difference. It'll help for sure, but it seems unlikely to be a big enough attraction to want to play as them, especially since +25% hurry cost will often slow your production by about as much as those few minerals help. Being able to hit +3 is great because you jump from supporting 4 to 7 (later 14) in one go (potentially +3 to +10 mins per turn per base). -4 is horrible because it straight up doubles support costs. All the other changes are somewhat noteworthy, one mineral per turn per base is cool, but not spectacular.Good input; what I'm getting from that is that +2 Support on its own isn't a huge boost because there's no benefit to having higher than +3 Support; conversely this means that while there's no major benefit, raising it to +2 won't significantly unbalance them either when taken along with removing their Hurry penalty. Which is what I'm going to do. That should make them more fun to play, since currently they are kind of a slog though quite good at higher difficulties thanks to their Police ratings. One of the test games I ran with the Authority was on Thinker, and they performed very well except for the fact that they were playing second banana to the Technocrats past the early game. I just couldn't catch up to them, even as my territory continued to expand via Conquest.
EDIT: You've also given me some great ideas for House Satori in making them shadier via implied criminal activities. Their background would be that the Satori clan, though by all accounts a legit operation, none the less had ties to organized crime, to the point where critics nicknamed their business empire the Satori-gumi. Atsumi's father, Junichiro, worked hard to shake this reputation but it lead to financial ruin in several sectors of their operation. Atsumi isn't quite so idealistic as her father though...
I'm trying to think of names which invoke themes of human improvement via medicine and biological enhancement. "Chimera" came to mind but that's not quite right since Chimera is an actual biological term with a definition beyond what I'm going for.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 09, 2014, 02:46:35 PM
Post by: Sigma on May 09, 2014, 03:01:32 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 09, 2014, 03:04:31 PM
Post by: Sigma on May 09, 2014, 03:05:45 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 09, 2014, 03:20:35 PM
Post by: Sigma on May 09, 2014, 03:51:38 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 09, 2014, 04:50:39 PM
Post by: Sigma on May 09, 2014, 11:55:04 PM
Unfortunately my next door neighbors are the Authority and they've got Missile Penetrators; I'm the first on planet as far as I can tell who has Chaos Guns, which is helpful, but if push comes to shove I'm not sure how things are going to hash out.
Post by: Sigma on May 10, 2014, 06:35:54 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 10, 2014, 06:39:47 PM
Post by: JarlWolf on May 10, 2014, 08:27:46 PM
Post by: Sigma on May 10, 2014, 08:33:23 PM
Giving -2 Support to the Technocrats hurts them pretty badly and makes them unable to weather any kind of persistent aggression. I think they pretty much need to keep the Morale penalty instead of House Satori. So instead, what if I gave Satori something like a -10% offense penalty to show their dislike of direct warfare over espionage?
Post by: Nexii on May 10, 2014, 08:37:25 PM
Post by: Sigma on May 11, 2014, 03:53:50 AM
Changelog:
- The Genome Society has been renamed the Chrysalis Collective. Flavor text has been updated in several areas to reflect this. They are now no longer purely about genetics but all manner of biomedical enhancement of the human species.
- Apollo Industries has had their faction noun changed to "Olympians."
- Replaced Satori's Morale penalty with a -10% Offense penalty.
- The Authority's Hurry penalty has been moved to the Chrysalites. The Authority's Support rating has been increased to +2
- The Chrysalites have had their Morale bonus lowered to +1
- The Chrysalites no longer receive free Recycling Tanks
- Apollo Industries has their drone penalty changed to 1 Drone per 4 Citizens (previously 3)
So the Chrysalites have been nerfed fairly hard (hopefully not too hard though) while the Colonial Authority and Apollo Industries have been buffed. Satori's change should be largely lateral but testing will be needed to determine how it plays.
Post by: Sigma on May 11, 2014, 04:13:57 AM
And transhumanism is a very big subject of debate as well; of course lots of the arguments against it stem from economic disparities- the rich would monopolize transhumanist clinical immortality procedures, rule forever etc.I'm actually glad that you pointed that out. The primary theme of this faction set is for each to provide its own answer to the question "Who and what should determine the future of humanity?" In that sense, all seven factions are transhuman, but in a different way.
The Technocrats believe that the future lies in technological singularity, where man and machine are united as a new creation.
The Chrysalites believe in a biological future, where mankind takes the reins of its own evolution.
The Authority believes that the future of humanity is entropy, and absolute law and order is needed to escape that.
The Olympians believe that the future lies in the hands of visionaries and industrialists.
The Pilgrims believe, or rather have faith, in a divine will that shall deliver those who follow it into the future
The Satori believe in a future of prosperity for those cunning enough to envision and seize it
And last of all, the Leviathan Body believes that the future is in the hands of the people, and that no matter what shape that future takes it is the only hope for humanity, as theirs is the only vision that embraces all of mankind, not an elite circle of demagogues. At least that's how they would put it.
Post by: ete on May 11, 2014, 05:13:22 AM
I like the new Chrysalites flavor :). Maybe the Chrysalites will be overly nerfed here. Halved one of their main bonuses, removed an important early game bonus, and dumped a significant penalty on them (edit: looked at the files, only 110 not the full 125, less bad). I know they were good before, but all three seems potentially too much to me.
Also, do consider Robust Ind as a possible alternate buff for Authority. I'm not sure if they'll need an extra buff with the changes you've made, but having Power give +2 Support, +2 Morale, -1 Industry is a pretty cool proposition and gives them some unusual SE options. I don't think it will make a massive difference to their overall power, but it's potentially fun and unique+fits with flavor well :)
Post by: Nexii on May 11, 2014, 07:24:06 AM
Good: AUTH*, GENOME**
Average: TECHNO, PILGRIMS, SATORI***
Somewhat Weak: LEVIATHAN, APOLLO
* Noted their free ability is NLM - but Repair is 21, should be 22
** Bio lab will be from start of game
*** Is their aversion PS or Planned?
I would say that LEVIATHAN and APOLLO need stronger upsides due to fairly painful penalties. I'd try Leviathan at +2 GROWTH and APOLLO at +2 INDUSTRY.
More considering the default SE set than the one I play with of course. I feel AUTH would have extremely good expansion speed with PS. Played right that is, they would be probably the strongest for vs AI play on Transcend. Same with GENOME, Talent/4 is really good and they don't have a huge downside. Not sure I'd really nerf the two I consider top, they're not necessarily ahead by a huge margin, depending how you mod (and for vs AI or HvH play). Satori for example probably becomes really strong in human games since the AI is quite aggressive. PILGRIMS would be stronger in my set, since Fund got boosted, AUTH would have a harder time with the ecodmg from --PLANET, etc.
Post by: ete on May 11, 2014, 08:07:42 AM
And for Apollo, Hurry+Ind is really synergistic: assuming heavy rushing (so where it counts) and before any SE choice for each 3 units or facilities a normal faction makes, they get 4. Once Wealth and Planned become available this difference becomes huge: a normal faction running wealth+planned has a "production power" of 1.25 mins, these guys have 1.68 when rushing and 1.42 otherwise. Since minerals are the foundation of drone control facilities, research facilities, terraformers, new colony pods (partially), secret projects, extra crawlers, army units, ect.. this is a big deal. Their penalties are nasty all together, but their bonuses are really cool.
Edit: Fixed the numbers above.
Post by: Nexii on May 11, 2014, 09:42:56 AM
Also Planned + Wealth is only +2 IND by default, not +3 (though I do play with Planned at +2 IND). By default Apollo only has 11% more production power (10/9), and 14% more at Wealth+Planned (8/7). This is decent but doesn't really offset the extra drones. The HURRY is more or less offset by the -EFFIC. If you play expansionist style early, you'll only make about 85% the energy of other factions - which hits both research and energy to rush with. The default Planned is really painful especially on a faction with -1 EFFIC to start, and will stop them from doing much rushing. Likely Demo/FM/Wealth would be a better pick.
Post by: ete on May 11, 2014, 10:05:17 AM
ah, thanks. Fixed the numbers in the above post. It's still a fairly impressive difference (especially for AI at high levels which cheats by giving itself a large +IND), though it is true that effic losses reduce your free energy for spending which offsets it somewhat. Not being able to run planned without demo and having iffy efficiency even with demo/planned is an issue.. but I'm hesitant about moving to +2 IND. The Drones have -2 Research for just that (and one less drone), which is probably comparable to the effic hit and drone issues these guys have. +2 IND with a hurry bonus sounds scary. If they get a buff, which I'm not sure either way whether they could do with, maybe moving their hurry to 80% would be a better option?
Post by: Nexii on May 11, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
Probably either +2 IND, or +1 ECON added and hurry increased to 90. As they are, I think they'd need hurry decreased to around 70 to be competitive.
Post by: diessa on May 11, 2014, 07:56:03 PM
Post by: Sigma on June 19, 2014, 09:10:51 PM
-Fixed the Authority's Ability Bonus to correctly apply Non-Lethal Methods instead of Repair Bay
Post by: JarlWolf on October 06, 2014, 01:15:56 PM
Post by: Sigma on October 31, 2014, 02:36:53 AM
- Increased Technocrats Effiency bonus to +2
- Increased Chrysalites Morale bonus to +2
- Changed Chrysalite Talent bonus from 4 to 3
- Transferred Pilgrims Fanatic bonus to Leviathan
- Gave Satori +2 Probe
- Updated Satori flavor text. The overall goal is to give the impression that they are equal parts legitimate business and organized crime syndicate. To that end, Atsumi now has the leader title of "Oyabun", the traditional name for the leader of a yakuza. Might be a little on the nose, so it's subject to change.
- Increased Authority Defense bonus to +25%
- Added Research,2 to Apollo, mostly to see what happens.
- Modified Ideological Preferences for certain factions
Post by: ete on November 02, 2014, 04:29:03 PM
Post by: ete on November 13, 2014, 05:14:46 PM
Bards (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Bards_of_Chiron)
Annihilators (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Annihilators)
Exterminatus
Pilgrims (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/The_Advent_Pilgrimage)
Imperium
Chrysalis (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Chrysalis_Collective)
Had a bit of trouble early on due to starting very close to the bards (all workers are talents, 50% psi bonus, 25% def bonus. and +2 Planet, plus a bunch of other bonuses), but managed to stalemate them. Lots of drone problems as expected, but got both HGP and VW to help control it due to a lovely start location for my HQ (two monoliths, two nut bonuses, and a bunch of river squares). Never really used any of their bonuses much, but outgrew everyone with mass forests and facilities. Had to make some defenses when the Bards brought a bunch of worms and locusts at me, but played defensive and went massively exponential in my infrastructure/tech growth at about the same time the Annihilators finally stopped messing around (read: being stalled in ma massive meatgrinder by the exterminatus) and crushed every other faction on planet at once.
Issue was for them that by that point I was teching twice and turn and had virtually every worthwhile facility at every base, plus both psi SPs, and could make about 10 singularity 8 res r bolt x empath hovertanks per turn, so I kinda destroyed them for a while, then transcended.
Overall, the faction seemed a bit weak, but that's probably mostly because I was forced onto the defensive for the early game when their offense bonus would have helped, and fighting a heavy native faction with 50% psi bonus at -6 Planet is kind of horrible. Had to focus unusual amounts of resources on drone control due to no police, so just went with FM and only AA air unit/no attacking people for a while.
Post by: Sigma on November 17, 2014, 05:48:25 PM
Only changes here is some adjustments to Satori flavor text, such as changing the leader's title to "Madam" because frankly what was I thinking.
Post by: ete on November 17, 2014, 10:28:42 PM
Post by: Sigma on November 17, 2014, 10:41:36 PM
Post by: ete on November 17, 2014, 10:50:50 PM
Post by: Sigma on November 18, 2014, 01:45:51 AM
Post by: Sigma on November 18, 2014, 05:15:54 AM
Fixed error with Satori's Defense penalty
Post by: Sigma on November 24, 2014, 06:15:51 PM
Post by: ete on November 24, 2014, 07:47:32 PM
But looking at it.. yea, if you add in +2 research to an already pretty awesome builder, it's likely to make it amazingly good. Purely from theory I'd drop research and just adjust Hurry until it feels balanced.