Author Topic: Pravin Lal's Runner-up Science Fair Runoff  (Read 10503 times)

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Offline Mart

Re: New game?
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2019, 07:09:05 PM »
The things about rules, as I remember them. And possible effect presently in Yitzi patch, as some of them are fixed I think.


1) There is this setting in alphax.txt, that disables this. Possibly it is off by default, if not, one can change the file. To check, in 2101 all other human-controlled factions would be visible in commlink screen F12.


2) I am not familiar with cheats here. I remember there were some when doing switching, remember from forums conversations.


3) This is I think, that you can/could place in build queue item that cannot be built yet, but in queue can be placed after required another facility for example. Now, the cheat is to remove prerequisite from queue, thus building something without this prerequisite. The problem is game does not re-check queue after a change (?)


4) Some solution would be to mass-upgrade units at the end of turn, so that not forget about this rule. It was ok in ACDG3 on Apolyton.


6) Inserting a stockpile energy in build queue after currently building unit may (?) yield additional energy. I am not sure this works though, a bit of micromanagement. It was considered a bug, but then many people were thinking about it as a feature, and it was left, if I am not mistaken.


9) This may be fixed in Yitzi patch, or even scient's patch already. The problem was when AI was exchanging a base for a base. There was inverted parameter for value of a base, so offering a low-value base caused AI to agree for giving high-value base. But it may be fixed.


Exchanging a base for energy, extorting, or gifting should be allowed without any problems. I often do it in single-player and AI gives ok EC amounts, like sometimes in several thousand EC for a base.

Re: New game?
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2019, 11:42:00 PM »
Alright, so offers involving our own bases are fine, but involving an AI base are banned?  Or just offers with a base from both sides?  edit:  If the community doesn't know that this bug is fixed, then we can't guess.  I'm just askin' what that consensus was/is.

I found the line you mention in alphax.txt, 102/103.  We change that to 0, and then Human players will not be given commlinks at start of game.

Regarding the other points, the build queue is busted for satellites.  You can get building them without unlocking them using sneaky dequeueing.  We just have to not do that - or any other time we have something in the build queue we didn't unlock.
But I don't understand what the hurry exploit is.  I'm allowed to hurry builds... but when am I not?

Page says that I get one turn Stockpile Energy for free each time the build queue empties upon a structure.  Since this just -happens-, there's no ban.  But etiquette #6 suggests that this is possible with units somehow.  Anyway, I guess if you know how to do it, you can.  I don't need to know anything to stay within a permission.

We're getting close!
The same HorseshoeHermit on civfanatics

Offline Mart

Re: New game?
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2019, 10:23:32 AM »

Let me check, if the bug still exists. I will try the game, but there should be also an entry in readme.


The problem, as far as I know, was in exchange a base for a base.
Exchanges when you offer a gift (a base) or extort a base from an AI were fine.

Offline Mart

Re: New game?
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2019, 07:55:39 PM »
I just checked the Yitzi patch 3.5, so the bug is still there. I could exchange my size 1 base with a 1-3-1 unit in it with no facilities for an AI base with 2 facilities, 7 x-3-x units and size 5. AI is completely dumb.
However, AI asked for a size 7 base with 2 facilities and 4 units ... 66000+ EC. (over sixty six thousands!). So it is legitimate.


Therefore:
- Exchanging a base for a base  with AI is prohibited.
- Other exchanges, like gifting, extortion are allowed, they work ok.

Re: New game?
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2019, 09:47:16 PM »
Thank you for the tests, Mart.  I think we can get started if we just work out what rule #2 is.

Here is a random assignment of the AIs to the three remaining slots:

(click to show/hide)

Aki-Zeta in slot 4, Lal in slot 5, and Yang in slot 7.
The same HorseshoeHermit on civfanatics

Offline Mart

Re: New game?
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2019, 01:14:41 PM »
I think one of the cases in rule #2 is that skunkworks have this ability (not documented), which allows to switch building items within category without loss of minerals. I haven't checked that yet, but I think you could switch a unit to another unit of less mineral rows, hurry it, switch back to an initial unit of larger mineral cost and have the difference for example completed from turn accumulation.


The thing is, that unlike facilities, unit mineral cost of hurrying is scaled and grows above 2 after first 5  minerals. Even without hitting "the first 10 mineral" the cost can be very high for tens of minerals needed to buy.


There may be more possible exploits like this. But I do not recall anything right now.

Offline roninscg

Re: New game?
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2019, 04:43:08 PM »
 rule #2 refers to that,
as I remember,
that the buildings are cheaper (in relation to units) when you hurry them,
 forbids is to buy a building and then to sweach to units.


p.s. my written English is bad, sorry for that   :D



Re: New game?
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2019, 08:23:16 PM »
I read the rules thread looking for an explanation.  I found a discussion where rule #2 is considered overstated.  Sadly the points on both sides were understated.

The wording on #2 isn't even clear whether it means just energy hurrying, or all forms of hurrying.  It looks like Supply Crawler shenanigans are acceptable, but what then is meant to be banned?  Still not sure.  Is it just as roninscg says?  It's simple enough to ban build-switching if you have a hurried process in the queue.  But then there's partial hurrying.  You'd have to remember every build you've hurried, and I don't believe in rules you can't phrase on the instantaneous present.

I want to just ignore rule #2, and start rolling, but what do you all think?  ExCx, anything?
The same HorseshoeHermit on civfanatics

Offline roninscg

Re: New game?
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2019, 09:13:14 PM »

I want to just ignore rule #2, and start rolling, but what do you all think?  ExCx, anything?

I agree to ignore rule #2




Offline Mart

Re: New game?
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2019, 11:38:38 PM »
...

I want to just ignore rule #2, ...
Also, I agree to ignore it.

Re: New game?
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2019, 06:37:15 PM »
Is ExCx playing?  He got ruled out of the other voting by majoritys, but I need consensus to drop a forum rule.
The same HorseshoeHermit on civfanatics

Re: New game?
« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2019, 03:31:57 PM »
Ah heck, as far as I know, ExCx wrote up on post 1, then forgot his login credentials.  :dunno:
I hate to do it, but I am putting a question mark next to his name in the OP and polling for another entrant.  I mean, how do we know he'd play if we sent him a turn?

Say something, bro.
The same HorseshoeHermit on civfanatics

Offline Mart

Re: New game? (1 slot open!!!)
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2019, 04:40:20 PM »
a private message? he should get info in his email possibly...

Re: New game? (1 slot open!!!)
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2019, 07:23:43 PM »
a private message? he should get info in his email possibly...

I thought if he had an email notification on pms, he'd have one for subscribed threads.  But I dm'd him now anyway.
The same HorseshoeHermit on civfanatics

Re: New game? (1 slot open!!!)
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2019, 04:37:05 AM »
wow rip game apparently
The same HorseshoeHermit on civfanatics

 

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