No research for X turns

[MercantileInterest]

The modifier which prohibits a factions from accumulating research for the first however many turns (found in the Believers) does not exist in the .txt file. Any idea how to edit it?

[Eadee]

IIRC every Faction with an inherent research penalty doesn't accumulate research in the first 10 years.

But I don't know where to modify this number of years.

[Nexii]

its 5 turns of no research per level of -RESEARCH.  this can't be modded yet

[MercantileInterest]

Really? In the Smaniac mod, the Believers with -2 Research don't suffer this penalty at all. Meanwhile, the Free Drones with -3 Research instead accumulate no research for 5 turns. When I modify the files, this reverts to normal.

[Dio]

The code shows the expression to determine the number of turns a faction with negative RESEARCH as follows: (RESEARCH Score * 4) - RESEARCH score. The number of mission years elapsed must exceed the value that results from this expression. The following values occur with this expression:
-1 RESEARCH: (3 Mission Years without Research [No research before 2104])
-2 RESEARCH: (6 Mission Years without Research [[No research before 2107])
-3 RESEARCH: (9 Mission Years without Research [[No research before 2110])
-4 RESEARCH: (12 Mission Years without Research [[No research before 2113])
-5 RESEARCH: (15 Mission Years without Research [[No research before 2116])

[Nexii]

Are you sure it's not + ?  I always saw it was 5 years per -RESEARCH.  Does Smaniac mod the default SE?  That might be changing it...if you get +2 RESEARCH from default SEs..

[Yitzi]

The modifier which prohibits a factions from accumulating research for the first however many turns (found in the Believers) does not exist in the .txt file. Any idea how to edit it?

You'd have to find the code in the executable and edit it there.

[MercantileInterest]

That's it exactly. One of the default Smaniac governments grants +2 research. After getting rid of that, the inability to accumulate points for 10 turns in addition to having a slower rate seems downright insulting. Am experimenting with giving the Believers an extra scout patrol and switching their default tech to Centauri Ecology so they can build formers if they start in a bad spot. The Free Drone industry bonus actually has an effect in the starting phase of the game, so not granting them anything extra.

[Nexii]

I mod such that you can make Formers and build road, mine, sensor, and solar without Centauri Ecology.  But the tech is needed to plant forest or farm.  It makes the -RESEARCH for X turns penalty a little less harsh, and the tech a little less mandatory to get right away.

[MercantileInterest]

That would work pretty well too.

[Nexii]

I find it's good if you like to play with factions/SEs with negative economy.  As otherwise you can get stuck having 0 energy and never get any tech

[Yitzi]

I mod such that you can make Formers and build road, mine, sensor, and solar without Centauri Ecology.  But the tech is needed to plant forest or farm.  It makes the -RESEARCH for X turns penalty a little less harsh, and the tech a little less mandatory to get right away.

I like this; one could also adjust it so that roads require Doctrine: Mobility, mines require Industrial Base, sensors require Information Networks, and solars require Applied Physics, to spread things out.  Of course, that wouldn't help out the Believers as much...I think what they really need is cheaper (but perhaps higher-support) colony pods (as between their inability to build much else at the start, their high SUPPORT, and the fact that they don't have to worry about far-from-HQ bases being stolen by probe teams, an expansionist early-game strategy seems the optimal for them).

Making colony pods cost only 20 minerals, but require both mineral and nutrient support (with free support from SUPPORT rating needing to cancel out each one separately) would be a big boost to the Believers...but that requires .exe modding too.

[Nexii]

I kind of like the terraforming ideas though I'd keep solars baseline.  Formers should be able to make something by default and there's still the -ECON problem (that if you go -3 ECON or below, the HQ makes 0 energy). 

Well the only way to really make Believers relatively better is to make +SUP and +PROBE more powerful.  Generally cheaper troops helps them.  I found flat unit+ability costs made SUP more powerful with the downside of a bit more troop spam.  Boosting up Fundamentalism (+2 morale, +2 growth, -5 research) helps them relatively since they get only -3 research net due to the bottom range. 2/2/1 on the base square also helps them some and makes the early game a little less dull (more troops).  Something like a sliding scale on SUP's free minerals on new base might help them early on.  Like +/- 5 minerals per SUP (so they'd get 20 minerals for new bases rather than 10).  Boosting up mines somehow I think would also help...the only M-heavy strategy early is forests..

[Dio]

I kind of like the terraforming ideas though I'd keep solars baseline.  Formers should be able to make something by default and there's still the -ECON problem (that if you go -3 ECON or below, the HQ makes 0 energy). 

Well the only way to really make Believers relatively better is to make +SUP and +PROBE more powerful.  Generally cheaper troops helps them.  I found flat unit+ability costs made SUP more powerful with the downside of a bit more troop spam.  Boosting up Fundamentalism (+2 morale, +2 growth, -5 research) helps them relatively since they get only -3 research net due to the bottom range. 2/2/1 on the base square also helps them some and makes the early game a little less dull (more troops).  Something like a sliding scale on SUP's free minerals on new base might help them early on.  Like +/- 5 minerals per SUP (so they'd get 20 minerals for new bases rather than 10).  Boosting up mines somehow I think would also help...the only M-heavy strategy early is forests..

I continue to fiddle with the concept of giving the Believers +1 Growth since the spread of AI priorities for the faction gives them an inherent bonus to select models with this social effects. I play with 2/1/2 in the base square. This allows the bases for believers to provide better income (and potentially research).

[Nexii]

I'd say that higher E per base actually hurts Believers relatively, since they have bad energy efficiency into labs.  +1 GROWTH or removing their -1 PLANET goes far to helping them out.  Their attack bonus becomes really powerful if you make defense/armor more viable.  They're a tricky faction to balance.  Terrible early game but if you get into the middle game in ok shape they are really strong.  I don't think any faction could stand up to them running Fund/Planned/Power (at least how I mod SEs) on equal tech.  Not even Spartans or Hive.

The other reason I think is that +PROBE is kind of lacking.  It's a bit better if you take out all the free probe morale boosts though.  Being even a level up on probes means you'll win probe vs probe battles, helping with tech steal a lot.  I had been playing with 2/2/2 base square but found that a bit too pro-ICS/PS.