Modern Kulaks

[vonbach]

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/

Many people will awaken today to the news of approximately 100 to 150 armed militia taking control of a closed Wildlife Park Headquarters, and not know the full back-story – so here it is:
The short summary is:  in an effort to draw attention to a ridiculous arrest of a father and son pair of Oregon Ranchers (“Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46,) who are scheduled to begin five year prison sentences (turning themselves in tomorrow January 4th 2016), three brothers from the Cliven Bundy family and approximately 100/150 (and growing) armed militia (former U.S. service members) have taken control of Malheur Wildlife Refuge Headquarters in the wildlife reserve.  They are prepared to stay there indefinitely.

To cut a long story short. The government has been harassing the Hammonds since the 70's. They are sentencing a 76 year old man to 5 years in prison (a death sentence in practicality) for making a firebreak and burning a 100 dollars worth of grass to save his ranch and his home. Bear in mind the already served time and had an insane $400,000 fine for this. Years later an Obama appointee decides they need to be charged with terrorist arson charges for this. These people are some of the last holdouts in the county. The BLM has been harassing and bullying ranchers for decades. With games like deliberately flooding the land with their own irrigation water (hey you can either sell it to us now or sell it to when its a pond!). You have people literally calling for these peoples deaths like Montel Williams. Its insane.

(Via Oregon Live) […] The Bundy family of Nevada joined with hard-core militiamen Saturday to take over the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, vowing to occupy the remote federal outpost 50 miles southeast of Burns for years.

The occupation came shortly after an estimated 300 marchers — militia and local citizens both — paraded through Burns to protest the prosecution of two Harney County ranchers, Dwight Hammond Jr. and Steven Hammond, who are to report to prison on Monday.

Basically the people in the west are getting sick of the Federal government. Lets hope they have better luck than the Kulaks.

[Unorthodox]

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/

Many people will awaken today to the news of approximately 100 to 150 armed militia taking control of a closed Wildlife Park Headquarters, and not know the full back-story – so here it is:
highly bias crap here.quote]

To cut a long story short. The government has been harassing the Hammonds since the 70's. They are sentencing a 76 year old man to 5 years in prison (a death sentence in practicality) for making a firebreak and burning a 100 dollars worth of grass to save his ranch and his home. Bear in mind the already served time and had an insane $400,000 fine for this. Years later an Obama appointee decides they need to be charged with terrorist arson charges for this. These people are some of the last holdouts in the county. The BLM has been harassing and bullying ranchers for decades. With games like deliberately flooding the land with their own irrigation water (hey you can either sell it to us now or sell it to when its a pond!). You have people literally calling for these peoples deaths like Montel Williams. Its insane.

Their firebreak failed, the backfire they lit in violation of a no burn order got out of control and burned 140 acres of land, nearly trapped firefighters who were battling a lightning caused fire, and was allegedly set to cover up poaching more than saving land.  (I haven't seen the evidence, so can't say on the last, but they don't argue the other points at all)  There's very little ridiculous about the original fine and jail time. 

How it's not double Jeopardy to send them back to jail for the crime is beyond me, and really FUBAR.

(Via Oregon Live) […] The Bundy family of Nevada joined with hard-core militiamen Saturday to take over the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, vowing to occupy the remote federal outpost 50 miles southeast of Burns for years.

The occupation came shortly after an estimated 300 marchers — militia and local citizens both — paraded through Burns to protest the prosecution of two Harney County ranchers, Dwight Hammond Jr. and Steven Hammond, who are to report to prison on Monday.

Basically the people in the west are getting sick of the Federal government. Lets hope they have better luck than the Kulaks.
[/quote]

The Bundy Militia is only using the Hammond case to further their own argument that they should be allowed to graze their cattle for free on federal land.  The Hammond's freedom is only ONE of their demands.  The whole we should be able to do whatever we want with public lands stance is pretty craptacular if you ask me. It's not THEIR land, it's all ours, and heards of cattle grazing without oversight or restriction is NOT a good thing. 

[vonbach]

Their firebreak failed, the backfire they lit in violation of a no burn order got out of control and burned 140 acres of land, nearly trapped firefighters who were battling a lightning caused fire, and was allegedly set to cover up poaching more than saving land.  (I haven't seen the evidence, so can't say on the last, but they don't argue the other points at all)  There's very little ridiculous about the original fine and jail time. 

(l) Shortly after the sentencing, Capital Press ran a story about the Hammonds. A person who identified as Greg Allum posted three comments on the article, calling the ranchers “clowns” who endangered firefighters and other people in the area while burning valuable range land. Greg Allum, a retired BLM heavy equipment operator, soon called Capital Press to complain he had not made those comments and requested they be taken down from the website.

Thats assuming you believe a word out of the Feds mouth. I remember Ruby Ridge I know people that were there.

(i) In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries.

(j) In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”.

(j1) The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff’s office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire. A few days after the backfire a Range-Con from the Burns District BLM office asked Steven if he would meet him in town (Frenchglen) for coffee. Steven accepted. When leaving he was arrested by the Harney County Sheriff Dave Glerup and BLM Ranger Orr. Sheriff Glerup then ordered him to go to the ranch and bring back his father. Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.

How it's not double Jeopardy to send them back to jail for the crime is beyond me, and really FUBAR.

When its an obama  appointee  attorney general.

The Bundy Militia is only using the Hammond case to further their own argument that they should be allowed to graze their cattle for free on federal land.

Yes and who decides its federal land? Why the federal government of course! The people out west have been dealing with this federal bullying and extortion for years and frankly they are getting sick of it. The Revolutionary war was started over much less than this.

[Unorthodox]

You're talking to a person out west with farming background. 

The Hammonds have admitted to setting the fires in violation of the law and agreed to the punishments, and that's enough for me.  The only thing they are arguing against is the poaching charges.  I will agree it's total BS that they are getting drug back to jail after already being punished for the crime though.  That's FUBAR.  I don't care if there was a minimum sentence that the original one didn't cover, double jeopardy should apply here, but I'm not a lawyer and don't understand something somewhere.   

Federal vs State control of public land is a heated debate out here.  Public land being that which is not owned by a private party. 

NEITHER ONE would give the damn ranchers right to graze their cattle freely on it.  It's not THEIR pasture.  The Bundy's want a free for all pasture on all public land, and plenty of us western folk think they are just full of it and trying to avoid paying the grazing fees. 

[Rusty Edge]

I don't understand the history of the parties involved, and the Book of Enoch is enough on my plate for the moment.

As for the land ownership, isn't this part of the Louisiana Purchase?

[vonbach]

The Government is trying to take every bit of land it possibly can and turn it into "public land."
These people have been harassed since the 70's for crying out loud with all sorts of petty bureaucratic needling.
Its faceless non elected federal organizations that can just  march on to your land and tell you "this is illegal".
With no recourse possible on your end other than complaining to the very government thats bullying you.
Basically they are getting charged with what people do every year to clear weeds and brush so their house doesn't
get burned down. Its government bullying and extortion.

[Unorthodox]

The Government is trying to take every bit of land it possibly can and turn it into "public land."
These people have been harassed since the 70's for crying out loud with all sorts of petty bureaucratic needling.

I'm going to assume you mean the Bundys by "these people".

The Nevada strip they've been arguing over was purchased from Mexico in 1848, and has been public land under federal control ever since. 

Bundy's ancestors grazed cattle on the land back in 1877

Grazing laws were passed in 1934.

Bundy's family bought land near the area in 1948. 

Bundy's again grazed the land in the 50s.

Bundy Sr bought permits from 1973-1993, and has since refused and illegally kept grazing the public land adjacent to their property.  I assume this is the needling and extortion you claim.  If so, say it was from the 30's when the law was enacted. 

Their claims are 2 fold:

1: they have inherited grazing rights from 1877.  (rather ludicrous imo)
2: the land belongs to the State so the federal Govt should stay out of it.  (irrelevant imo as state property would still require a permit)

Most ranchers find their claims bunk.  They've aligned with a couple militia groups which are rather extremist in their views. 

Your opinions obviously vary. 

[vonbach]

You keep on switching things back to the Bundy's. The Bundy ranch was another case of the feds wanting valuable land
and trying to force people off it by putting them through the meat grinder. Bundy doesn't believe in the right of the
federal government to own the land in the first place and he's right.
The reason the militia occupied it is because the didn't want another Waco where the government burned women and
children alive or Ruby Ridge where a government sniper shoots a woman in the head with a baby in her arms.

A US Geological Survey Bulletin (1740-B) indicates there is a high potential for silver, gold, copper, mercury, uranium and molybdenum (a refractory metallic element used principally as an alloying agent in steel) and other resources in the area. There is also a moderate estimate for natural gas and oil.

The feds want to drive ranchers and private property owners off the land because on patented land (an exclusive private property land grant), which has passed into private ownership, a mining interest does not need to lease land or file a plan or notice with the federal government.

In regard to oil, the BLM "does not tell you that its share of total oil production has dropped dramatically due to substantial increases in oil production on private and state lands that are not subject to the onerous regulations and permitting delays of the federal government," notes theInstitute for Energy Research.

The Hammonds and other private property owners stand in the way of total federal monopolization of natural resources and that is why in part we are witnessing an unprecedented land grab in the West.

Just FYI both ranches sit on valuable land.