Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => After Action Reports => Topic started by: Green1 on July 21, 2013, 10:23:28 PM

Title: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 21, 2013, 10:23:28 PM

Once again, a few months in advance like I did for AAR4, I need a bit of help.

This time, I kind of want something really, really rough. I am going to be doing Morgan with 6 Alien factions.

Now, in the unfinished AAR3, I did have 4 alien factions - 2 Himilees and 2 Marrs. But, that got confusing saying Marr -1 and Marr -2, etc. BU suggested if I ever tried something like that again, to use custom Aliens. Alas, there really are not any good Aliens out there. Supposedly according to an ancient gamefaq, there was at one time an alien civil war pack supposedly on Network Node, but that is not in our downloads. Nor can I find any other mention of it.

As far as available ones, the only one decent is Antimind (who will be reappearing for AAR5). The only 2 in NN are the Bree (Maniac/ Network Node) which the AI has issues with, and the Manifold Seekers which never seem to do well either. There is also some sort of rebel Proj faction based on a Progenitor underclass uprising, but they are done like humans and I want all out civil war for this.

So, once again, over the next few months I either need help to find good Aliens, or... more than likely, have to make some myself that fit and have a good story with everyone's help. Do not worry. I will use the stock Caretakers and Usurpers. Antimind will be back. So, all we need is 3, not have to pull all 6 out of thin air!

Should be fun either way!

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Yitzi on July 21, 2013, 10:49:42 PM

You might want to consider these (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2596.0;topicseen).

Also, Morgan with 6 aliens is definitely interesting, as he loses his commerce advantage.  What I would do in that situation is (don't open the spoiler if you don't want advice)

(click to show/hide)

go Dem/Green/Wealth and use native life heavily.  Native life doesn't care about morale penalties, and can be kept in fungus to be support-free.  And of course Dem/Green is +4 Efficiency, so you can run 100% labs at no penalty, so long as your cash holds up.  (Planetpearls are your friend in making sure they keep holding up.)  In a serious war against the Antimind, though, you'll want to switch to Power and maybe even Fundie (but stay Green), and use cheap empath and trance units to kill them (relying on their Growth and Industry penalties to give you the advantage).  And of course you can't pop boom with Green, so for that Simple economics is probably best; without commerce, Free Market isn't worth the cost.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 21, 2013, 10:52:39 PM

The Tech Triade (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Tech_Triade) are another Alien faction from Network Node. Progenitors with +3 Research and -1 Industry along with 150% defense; also they have three leaders which is kind of hilarious. No idea how those diplomatic calls are supposed to go. Seeing them in action could be interesting, as they could be conceivably unstoppable in the late game, and their defensive bonus could go a long way to helping them survive until their ridiculous Research rockets them ahead of the pack.

EDIT: Actually I just had a major brainstorm for a really weird alien faction: an aquatic faction of sentient amoebas. I'm gonna get right on that.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 21, 2013, 11:02:28 PM

For that matter, I did two alt. prog factions in collaboration with Darsnan four years ago - the art's on my custom factions page, but if you want the .txt, you'll have to go to 'poly and find the scenario he posted in April of 2009.  I don't know how well they'd work outside his scenario...  But, as far as I'm concerned, and I doubt Darsnan would object to the repurposing of his designs, you're welcome to use the .pcxs and create your own factions.  I mean, I think you're more interested in the story aspect than anything, and for that, a faction need not have different stats at all; only different faces and names.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 21, 2013, 11:16:06 PM

Are you looking for factions that are relatively balanced, or ones that would be a challenge to play against?

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: JarlWolf on July 21, 2013, 11:37:02 PM

I am thinking he wants the latter, he's aiming for crazy I believe  ;lol

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 22, 2013, 12:19:47 AM

I've got a question about Aquatic Factions: are all of Svensgaaaaaar's unique bonuses built into the Aquatic Rule, or are they coded somewhere else? I'm referring to his faction's ability to build in the deep sea and to mine extra minerals from ocean shelves.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Yitzi on July 22, 2013, 12:32:01 AM

Quote from: Sigma on July 22, 2013, 12:19:47 AM

I've got a question about Aquatic Factions: are all of Svensgaaaaaar's unique bonuses built into the Aquatic Rule, or are they coded somewhere else? I'm referring to his faction's ability to build in the deep sea and to mine extra minerals from ocean shelves.

Both of those are built into Aquatic, but his free Marine Detachment and naval yards aren't.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 22, 2013, 12:40:48 AM

Good to know.

BEHOLD

(click to show/hide)

#BLURB
^  While at first the specimen recovered from the New
Sargasso appeared to be nothing less than a giant amoeba,
subsequent tests revealed a the presence of a complex
nervous system unlike anything yet discovered on Planet.
This researcher apologizes to report that the specimen's
tissue experienced a state of rapid dissolution soon after
dissection.
^
^        -- Oleksiy Danilenko,
^           University of Planet Report on Specimen 91124

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Nucleon Zedaak bora-Jellico}
^BACKGROUND: {Elected Leader of the Procyon}
^AGENDA: {New Procyon Homeworld}
^TECH: {Doctrine: Flexibility, Nanometallurgy}

#DATALINKS2
^+1 GROWTH:   {Rapid asexual reproduction}
^-1 MORALE: {Inept soldiers}
^-2 PLANET:  {Unconcerned with preserving native ecosystem}
^Aquatic alien faction. Begins with one Sea Escape Pod.
^Experienced deep sea miners {Free Subsea Trunkline at each base}
^Free Deep Pressure Hull for all marine units
^Suffers no negative effects from Democratic Politics
^Cannot use Police State Politics

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: JarlWolf on July 22, 2013, 01:04:05 AM

Also, do the aliens need to be Progenitors? I can easily make Alien factions that are not a Progenitor race but still interesting storywise/ stat wise. Let me know on that regard.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 22, 2013, 01:53:23 AM

Quote from: Sigma on July 21, 2013, 11:16:06 PM

Are you looking for factions that are relatively balanced, or ones that would be a challenge to play against?

Antimind level of OPness is okay but not Scotsnoobs (BU newbie faction that is unbeatable) level of crazy.

Also remember, all aliens are always at war with each other all the time by default even if you have more than two. So it is not just me that is concerned with one being OP, but the other AIs. Also, enmity. If I even make toke treaties and agreements with one, it hacks off the other 5!  So all 6 are locked in permanent war. Morgan is trapped in a real alien crossfire!

I will look at all of the suggestions before now and the time AAR4 finishes. With customs, I usually playtest them for a bit before doing an AAR to make sure they are powerful enough. If not, I will try to make one. One of my ideas is a polar opposite of the Antimind, since it is now permanently in my rotation ( I would even put it in an MP game just to see what happens, if I could get the courage to convince them one day..lol). The Destroyers idea from Yitzi's thread sounds really interesting as an anti-antimind...

I fully expect to be challenged where there is a real chance of losing. Actually, a very good chance of losing at Transcend difficulty. Map will be Standard size/Abundant Life/Weak Erosive/Sparse Cloud/Mostly Land.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 22, 2013, 02:08:19 AM

Quote from: Green1 on July 22, 2013, 01:53:23 AM

I fully expect to be challenged where there is a real chance of losing. Actually, a very good chance of losing at Transcend difficulty. Map will be Standard size/Abundant Life/Weak Erosive/Sparse Cloud/Mostly Land.

Hmm then I guess my aquatic amoeba race probably won't work since they're dependent on a good amount of water.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 22, 2013, 02:11:08 AM

Okay, here's Darsnan's scenario I referenced before, with the alternate progs: http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/184748-SMAX-Eye-of-the-Beholder-2009-SP-game (http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/184748-SMAX-Eye-of-the-Beholder-2009-SP-game)

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 22, 2013, 02:22:32 AM

Quote from: BUncle on July 22, 2013, 02:11:08 AM

Okay, here's Darsnan's scenario I referenced before, with the alternate progs: http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/184748-SMAX-Eye-of-the-Beholder-2009-SP-game (http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/184748-SMAX-Eye-of-the-Beholder-2009-SP-game)

Those Progs are really just alternate Caretakers, though.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 22, 2013, 02:44:04 AM

Yeah, I guess; my end was art, and I don't recall what Darsnan did to the stats or anything.  Are the other alt. progs not in that one?  It's been over four years and I honestly don't remember.

Still, given Green's initial inspiration to be able to use extra progs and tell them apart, this will do, I should think.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: JarlWolf on July 22, 2013, 06:05:29 AM

Again, if you want I can create a fully fleshed out NON progenitor Alien faction. I have a few idea's in mind, and they are all batcrap insane and I think you'll like them.

But only if you are fine with non progenitor aliens.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Kilkakon on July 22, 2013, 06:26:24 AM

I remember from NN there were Manifold Exiles. They weren't very strong (the scenario that had them was like, all very small bonuses) but they did have a decent leaderhead.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 22, 2013, 02:12:45 PM

Hmm what about a Prog faction that is sort of like the alien version of the Peacekeepers? Whereas the Usurpers and Caretakers represent subcultures of their society based on their ideas about the Manifold project, these guys could represent the larger Progenitor government as a whole, and are more concerned about the survival of their race than of where they fall on the Manifold debate. They are at total war with the Caretakers and Usurpers because they view both of them as radical elements that need to be surpressed in order for their race to rebuild itself after the Tau Ceti flowering.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 22, 2013, 11:01:22 PM

I have just managed to acquire a pdf copy of the rare and out of print GURPS Alpha Centauri (do not ask). It has a pretty good in depth and canon write up on all the Prog factions and their culture. 

Let me read through all that and see if we can come up with something somewhat canon that would actually justify additional prog factions.

BTW, if they ever do AC2 or AC Forever type deal, I could really see them adding at least 2 new aliens and 5 more humans for a third set of 7. Add that to more than 7 factions at a time on a map (which I will push for indefinitely as I feel it is a DESIGN FLAW/BUG!), you would have a blast!

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 26, 2013, 12:01:36 PM

Hey Green1, are you interested in using my Procyon aliens that I proposed a few posts up? If so I'll flesh them out for you to use when you start the AAR. If you do though you'll probably want to at least use the average water%.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 26, 2013, 01:10:41 PM

Sounds great. I do need more. Link the file, and I will start playtesting.

I am still mulling over The Exterminatus, too.

For gfx, I am going to present BU some ideas. I am thinking a Marr skin with glowing black eyes that crackle off of him like in some comics.

Black bases, and I need to see about color but I think a dark grey would work.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: JarlWolf on July 26, 2013, 06:58:16 PM

For pallete of the Exterminatus:

Black with grey units, and for the writing for very bright red. You want something genocidal and intimidating looking and black is usually a colour of fear, and red is usually a warning or used to catch people's attention.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 26, 2013, 10:38:40 PM

Here is what I have so far. I am not usually into creating and I have used the editor that came with GOG, so...

Quote

;
; Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
; Faction Editor
;

#EXTERMINATUS
The Exterminatus, The Destroyer, Exterminator, M, 2, E'xitus, M, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1,
TECH, Physic, TECH, Indust, SOCIAL, +++INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, -GROWTH, SOCIAL, +++MORALE, SOCIAL, --PLANET, FACILITY, 19, IMPUNITY, Fundamentalist, FANATIC, 0, ALIEN, 0, TECHSHARE, 3,
Politics, Fundamentalist, POLICE,
Future Society, Eudaimonic, nil,
AntiMind, AntiMind
E'xtor, E'xter, Hymn of the Void
Harbinger, Godlike, sociopathic, destructive, sociopathic,
Crazed Monster
destroy all existance
bring death and void to all
flourishing on this planet
flourishing on this planet
demolish everything in your path
abusing human life and spirit
abusing human life and spirit
wanting to end all existance including the universe itself
army, M1
overall survival, M2
erradication of everything, M2
tithe for ignoring , M1
in destroyindall meddlesome life
the Extermination Squads
of not being dead yet

#BASES
Exterminatus : Begin
Umbral Blot
Extermination : Inevity
Planet : Gone
Human : Extict
Great Void
Suffering : Begun
Nexus : Ending
Seed : Doom
Symbiosis : NonexistanceHost : Nothingness
Host : Nothingness
Void : Power
Planet : Dust
All : Death
#END

#WATERBASES
Ocean: Dry
Death :Tears
Isledeep: Husk
Savior : Corpse
Decay : Imminent
Wrath : Peaceful
Dark : Void
Sea : Last
#END

#BLURB
Exterminate : All
^
^        -- E'xitus
^           

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {E'xitus}
^BACKGROUND: {Progenitor Doomsday Cult}
^AGENDA: {Extermination of all life}
^TECH: {Applied Physics, Industrial base}

#DATALINKS2
^-2 PLANET: {Even Planet senses dark intent}
^+3 INDUSTRY: {The machines of destruction turn.}
^+3 MORALE: { Zealous followers who exist only to exterminate}
^-1 GROWTH {Constant destruction leaves little time for procreation)
^Free Robotic Assembly Plant each base: {The machines of destruction}
^Impunity to Fundamentalism  penalties
^
^{May not use Future Society :Eudimanic}

#FACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Destruction : cease?"

"Good.  End of Planet: Not begin with you."
"I, $TITLE0 $NAME1, shall never let monsters like you
wait and get more powerful!"

#FACTIONTREATY
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Destruction : Yours Delayed , $TITLE0 $NAME1. I suggest: Treaty of Friendship. Our species: aid in eventual destruction of everything"

#ALIENFACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440

#ALIENFACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Your eventual nonexistance: delay . A Truce: please concur"

"Agreement."
"$NAME3. Destruction: prepare!"

#ALIENFACTIONTREATY
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"$TITLE0 $NAME1, clearly you are one with the extermination. Treaty of Friendship: teach me more of my potential"

"Welcome back: prodigy. Aims: similar. Treaty: fine idea."
"Your understanding of your inevitable nonexistance : feeble. Treaty: not at this time."

# ; This line must remain at end of file

Quote

I also gave Miriam's/ Marr's  +25 percent attack. Wil update datalinks.  I hope it ends up cool and will not crash. I wanted Fundy without the penalties. Robotic Assembly each base may be horribly broken, but it has to compete and commence exterminating! Think like the Prog version of the Daleks!

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: JarlWolf on July 26, 2013, 11:56:15 PM

My advice/suggestions for the names and other things: Instead of "The Destroyer" (that is overused way too much) go with "The Purge," Or "The Cleanser"

As for their ideal as to have some merit and realism to it, have it where they want to exterminate all other forms of life so they can inherit the planet, and that they can substitute their desired forms of life and create their dream world. They essentially wish to "wipe the slate clean" and create something new with a fresh canvas. They believe in the evolution of the Progenitor race but they don't think that the manifold nexus and becoming an unstable energy being is the answer: and they see the Planet Chiron as an inferior, freakish development that needs to be wiped from existence. In essence, they do not believe in Eudaimonia or any of the future societies but they believe that not only is the evolution of their species a practical goal of survival, it is a holy duty that they must uphold, and their cleansing of all other inferior life forms is required for continued evolution and progress.

For their quote: "Evolution of our species: Must continue. To sustain evolution: must exterminate all impurities to create: perfection." -Sagar E'xitarr
and for idea on Stats: Have Planet score -5, but have  research buffed to 100% faster. The reasoning:

Their research is insane because they are fanatically devoted to their mission of purging planet, and devote lots of time in developing new ways to kill and clean the planet of all other life forms.
But not only does Planet sense their dark intent, the intentional planetcide the Exterminatus does is evident as they literally are trying to kill the planet. Reckless pollution, intentional and otherwise, literal programs to kill planet at every turn and massive amounts of genocide against planetary life and other factions and a huge number of atrocities makes planet HATE the Exterminatus more then any other faction on the planet. Planet see's Exterminatus as a threat to its very own survival, and is truly alarmed about them.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 27, 2013, 01:13:22 AM

 I agree with changing the PLANET score... they need a harsher penalty to something because in a test run, they are kicking some serious ass. It would also bring them in line with being the Antiminds evil (well, Antimind is evil too) opposite.

I am taking that storyline. It sounds great.

These guys do not need the research. They are doing great on that in first few tests.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: JarlWolf on July 27, 2013, 03:56:14 AM

Glad to be of service. Let me know if you require any help.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 27, 2013, 03:53:38 PM

Hi Green1, I finished the text file for the Procyon. I boosted their Growth to +2 so they can Pop Boom with Democratic and Planned. Feel free to reduce it to +1 if that's too ridiculous.

It should be fun to see what happens when literally every aquatic unit the Procyon build is a submarine.

I'll see what I can do with the graphics.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Kilkakon on July 27, 2013, 04:20:29 PM

Yeah I will say, +3 MORALE, +25% attack and +3 INDUSTRY (probably +5 if you count the robotic assembly plants) is a tad strong. :|

I thought I'd put the one Prog faction head from NN that isn't terrible:

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 27, 2013, 04:49:28 PM

Progress made on Procyon graphics. Need to figure out their logo still. Sorry for the lack of extra structures on the larger bases.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 27, 2013, 07:18:45 PM

Quote from: Kilkakon on July 27, 2013, 04:20:29 PM

Yeah I will say, +3 MORALE, +25% attack and +3 INDUSTRY (probably +5 if you count the robotic assembly plants) is a tad strong. :|

I thought I'd put the one Prog faction head from NN that isn't terrible:

The first test, they were seriously kicking everyone's butt. Second, after adjusting to -5 Planet still tough but manageable. I think Antimind was bugged for the second since it only built 2 cities guarded by 10 3-res Sentinels (test only went 50-60 turns).

Now, since only 4 of the Aliens are up, the tests had me playing Morgan with Yang and Zak as fillers. I do know as Morgan this is going to be insanely hard.

Cool thing was during the second one, Marr actually saved me from Exterminatus. There was war all throughout the countryside with nothing I could do about it.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 27, 2013, 07:27:27 PM

Quote from: Sigma on July 27, 2013, 04:49:28 PM

Progress made on Procyon graphics. Need to figure out their logo still. Sorry for the lack of extra structures on the larger bases.

Looks good. I may just want water percent a bit lower just to give me space between all these bad asses.

I need to re-download gimp to convert that to .pcx. I also have been reading ancient Apolyton posts about faction color. Unfortunately, there was nothing on the numerical codes for each color or what faction colors are possible. I want all these to have unique colors. I wish f/acedit had this option as I believe it is important.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 27, 2013, 08:38:55 PM

I can attach a PCX when I'm done with everything so you don't need to convert it.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 27, 2013, 09:36:18 PM

Jarlwolf, that -5 Planet took some teeth out of Exterminatus . On a huge abundant lifeform map, I had to switch to scenario mode to see whats up with them. They are off in a corner of the map literally fighting a full out war with native life. They produce and produce, but fungus is giving them issue.

I also like the Huge map. I think that would give Morgan time to build. Standard and smaller is rough.

But, that is just with 4 Aliens: Antimind, Exterminatus, Usurpers, and Caretakers.

Also... Did not know Antimind waged war decent naval. Goodness... Durn near wiped out Sparta (who subbed for Zak).
It appears though, the aliens are pretty balanced with each other...

I can also see why all this AI watching with scenario editor was so interesting back in the day.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 27, 2013, 11:23:21 PM

Finished the Procyon graphics. Give 'em a go! Hope everything comes out okay!

EDIT: Their backstory is that the Procyon were all but wiped out by the Progenitors, who viewed their species as a virulent plague upon the galaxy due to their exceptionally rapid growth and penchant for turning basically any planet they land on into a copy of their homeworld. This faction comprises the last remnants of their race arriving on Planet with the hope for a new start.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 28, 2013, 12:55:39 AM

I will put one human faction out and put these "things" in.

Even the oceans will be unsafe for Morgan's business plans.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: JarlWolf on July 28, 2013, 05:08:12 AM

Hmm. If you want to boost Exterminatus you should keep the -5 Planet (because if there is huge demon boils going around their base it also makes attacking them terrifying as you have to go through the native life)
and if you make their PSI a little stronger (They are conditioned to fight against Planet as its their mission) they can kill lots of those worms and get HUGE amounts of energy from the planet husks: Meaning that their research will be insane.
Liking the Procyon, they remind me of a sort of Starfish Alien sort of thing where they are an amoeba but 100 times larger.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 29, 2013, 04:43:14 PM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 28, 2013, 05:08:12 AM

Liking the Procyon, they remind me of a sort of Starfish Alien sort of thing where they are an amoeba but 100 times larger.

Yeah, the leader pic comes from the 4X game Endless Space. I'm really interested to see how they fair in this game. I don't usually like putting aliens in my games because I like the ideological purity of the human factions, but the Procyon also have a purity to them, in that their only goal is the survival of their species.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 29, 2013, 07:46:48 PM

Quote from: Sigma on July 29, 2013, 04:43:14 PM

Quote from: JarlWolf on July 28, 2013, 05:08:12 AM

Liking the Procyon, they remind me of a sort of Starfish Alien sort of thing where they are an amoeba but 100 times larger.

Yeah, the leader pic comes from the 4X game Endless Space. I'm really interested to see how they fair in this game. I don't usually like putting aliens in my games because I like the ideological purity of the human factions, but the Procyon also have a purity to them, in that their only goal is the survival of their species.

So far in tests, they do well even on low sea level maps.

However, Antimind has IoDs that can give them issues.

The real biggie is they seem to go for a lot of projects in all the tests. Maybe this is because being on the sea, they are under a lot less pressure than the land based aliens.

The again, I have not played any games to completion. I just play maybe 100 turns then turn on scenario to see how the AI is doing.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 29, 2013, 08:16:58 PM

Do their Deep Pressure Hulls have any affect on gameplay? I kinda thought it would add a neat bit of flavor but I wonder if it would have any real strategic impact.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 29, 2013, 08:19:42 PM

Quote from: Sigma on July 29, 2013, 08:16:58 PM

Do their Deep Pressure Hulls have any affect on gameplay? I kinda thought it would add a neat bit of flavor but I wonder if it would have any real strategic impact.

For the player, yes.

But, the AI sees underwater units. So, vs AIs, it is not as useful.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on July 29, 2013, 08:23:07 PM

Quote from: Green1 on July 29, 2013, 08:19:42 PM

Quote from: Sigma on July 29, 2013, 08:16:58 PM

Do their Deep Pressure Hulls have any affect on gameplay? I kinda thought it would add a neat bit of flavor but I wonder if it would have any real strategic impact.

For the player, yes.

But, the AI sees underwater units. So, vs AIs, it is not as useful.

Haha that's pretty awesome them for you to be playing against them. Is that a bug or some kind of dumb design decision?

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Green1 on July 29, 2013, 09:21:24 PM

Quote from: Sigma on July 29, 2013, 08:23:07 PM

Quote from: Green1 on July 29, 2013, 08:19:42 PM

Quote from: Sigma on July 29, 2013, 08:16:58 PM

Do their Deep Pressure Hulls have any affect on gameplay? I kinda thought it would add a neat bit of flavor but I wonder if it would have any real strategic impact.

For the player, yes.

But, the AI sees underwater units. So, vs AIs, it is not as useful.

Haha that's pretty awesome them for you to be playing against them. Is that a bug or some kind of dumb design decision?

The way I was told, Alpha Centauri was made back in the days when AI knew where all units were. The CPUs unlike nowadays were not powerful enough to use the same patterns humans use to make decisions on what they can or can not see. Remember: AC still uses 256 color mode and had to cope with P3s and P2s. Otherwise, it would not have sold as many copies. Computers were VERY expensive back then.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: ete on August 25, 2013, 07:40:10 PM

Sigma: The Procyon datalinks claims impunity to Democratic, but the text file does not have it. You're at the 8 bonus limit, which one should be dropped?

http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Procyon_Consortium (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Procyon_Consortium) added it

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: ete on August 25, 2013, 09:11:16 PM

Also fixed a little bug which had them labeled as Hive.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on August 26, 2013, 12:46:34 AM

Quote from: ete on August 25, 2013, 07:40:10 PM

Sigma: The Procyon datalinks claims impunity to Democratic, but the text file does not have it. You're at the 8 bonus limit, which one should be dropped?

http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Procyon_Consortium (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Procyon_Consortium) added it

There's an eight bonus limit? Does that mean SMAX will only recognize 8 bonuses, or the wiki will only show 8?

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Yitzi on August 26, 2013, 01:09:12 AM

Quote from: Sigma on August 26, 2013, 12:46:34 AM

Quote from: ete on August 25, 2013, 07:40:10 PM

Sigma: The Procyon datalinks claims impunity to Democratic, but the text file does not have it. You're at the 8 bonus limit, which one should be dropped?

http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Procyon_Consortium (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Procyon_Consortium) added it

There's an eight bonus limit? Does that mean SMAX will only recognize 8 bonuses, or the wiki will only show 8?

SMAX will only recognize 8.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Sigma on August 26, 2013, 01:13:59 AM

I didn't know that! I'll review my options.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Kilkakon on August 26, 2013, 01:26:48 AM

That's not the whole story, but about half of the bonuses will count towards that limit of 8. :)

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 26, 2013, 01:36:26 AM

I hear there's a way to squeeze in nine, but I never understood it...

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: ete on August 26, 2013, 01:38:45 AM

Some bonuses are not included in the limit, but, yes there is an eight bonus limit. A faction with more than eight of the limited bonuses listed here: http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Faction.txt_editing_guide (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Faction.txt_editing_guide) will have the ninth, tenth, etc limited bonuses ignored by SMAX/SMAC.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 26, 2013, 02:38:21 AM

Geo?  I bet you remember enough to at least confirm that guys like Darsnan say there's a way - and know how yourself.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: ete on August 26, 2013, 04:00:33 AM

You can move the techs to a different kind of bonus (free tech choices at the start rather than specific techs), which saves space, but the AI does not get them and you can't direct which techs they get. Maybe that's what you were remembering?

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 26, 2013, 04:02:27 AM

Nope some of the big dawgs of old know how to stuff in nine.  Ask Darsnan, if Geo doesn't remember how.

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Yitzi on August 26, 2013, 05:56:17 AM

Quote from: BUncle on August 26, 2013, 04:02:27 AM

Nope some of the big dawgs of old know how to stuff in nine.  Ask Darsnan, if Geo doesn't remember how.

I'd love to see how that works, as from what I remember of the relevant part of the program it should be impossible...

Title: Re: AAR5 -(Morgan) Aliens Aren't Good for Profit (late August/September)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 26, 2013, 05:57:56 AM

It's what I was told...