The first in my opinion is not...the problem with all talents cancelling out drones is that if you did swap a worker for a specialist, it would be harder to get a golden age
1) Two talents, 1 worker, 1 drone. Rec Commons turns a superdrone into a worker, and apply the Paradise Garden last to turn a superdrone and a drone into talents.
2) If you have nonlethal methods, the extra police capacity should, too.
@Yitzi
Okay I think understand where you are going...I would say that the alternative system (2,0,0,2) is better than the current system (1,1,1,1)...
In both cases, you need to swap 2 for specialists in order to get a golden age (or at least possibility of one) if you don't have other psych options...
However, let's consider the other psych options....let's say you add some psych (maybe via the slider), enough to add one more talent...under the current system (if I'm interpreting it correctly), you would be at 2,0,1,1 while under the alternative system you would be at 2,1,0,1
...if I've interpreted all that correctly (and that's a big if), then it seems like the alternative would be making talents more powerful than they are, and I'm actually happy with that (anything that makes it easier to play without abusing crawlers and specialists)...
But now I'm really confused and may have completely botched that whole analysis so I'll just say this...if I'm thinking clearly, it's equally easy to deal with drones (and get golden ages) in both systems if you are swapping for specialists, but harder with the current system if you are relying on the slider
....I could sum up my feelings by saying that I would prefer the system that makes psych (via the slider and facilities) more viable and therefore does not incline the player as much to abuse the crawler/specialist strategy....
Paradise Garden turns anything into two talents.
What I'm saying is the description says you get two talents, it's a Project, so you should end up with two talents.Paradise Garden turns anything into two talents.
Incorrect. If you have drones, it'll turn one into a worker and then a talent; if you have more superdrones than workers it'll turn two of them into normal drones (or one if that means you then have as many superdrones as workers, and then it'll turn the worker into a talent).
Basically, it makes two talents, and then applies the usual rule of "if talents+total drones+superdrones>nonspecialists, turn a talent into a worker and a superdrone into a drone or drone into a worker."
What I'm saying is the description says you get two talents, it's a Project, so you should end up with two talents.Paradise Garden turns anything into two talents.
Incorrect. If you have drones, it'll turn one into a worker and then a talent; if you have more superdrones than workers it'll turn two of them into normal drones (or one if that means you then have as many superdrones as workers, and then it'll turn the worker into a talent).
Basically, it makes two talents, and then applies the usual rule of "if talents+total drones+superdrones>nonspecialists, turn a talent into a worker and a superdrone into a drone or drone into a worker."
Oops, I was mixing PG with Clinical Immortality (that's what I get for staying up so late). So I think that if you have Clinical Immortality, a base should end up with at least one talent.
Going back to 1) is the order apply talents, then apply facilities?
So two talents turn a superdrone into a worker, the Rec Commons turns the other superdrone into a worker, and you end up with two workers, two drones. Or am I missing something else?
Oops, I was mixing PG with Clinical Immortality (that's what I get for staying up so late). So I think that if you have Clinical Immortality, a base should end up with at least one talent.
Why?
OK, I'm not understanding why talents don't always cancel out drones. What do you mean by "they only do if there aren't enough nonspecialists to fit in talents+drones+superdrones"? And yes, a bug - I don't think superdrones should get counted twice.QuoteGoing back to 1) is the order apply talents, then apply facilities?
No; the order is psych and then facilities; talents can come from Lal/TALENT, or psych, or facilities, or projects, and at each step they'll cancel out drones if talents+drones+superdrones>nonspecialists.QuoteSo two talents turn a superdrone into a worker, the Rec Commons turns the other superdrone into a worker, and you end up with two workers, two drones. Or am I missing something else?
Talents don't always cancel out drones; they only do if there aren't enough nonspecialists to fit in talents+drones+superdrones. (Superdrones count in "drones" as well, meaning they get counted twice; do you think that's a bug?)
It's a Project. It overrides the usual rules and gives you a talent.
OK, I'm not understanding why talents don't always cancel out drones. What do you mean by "they only do if there aren't enough nonspecialists to fit in talents+drones+superdrones"?
And yes, a bug - I don't think superdrones should get counted twice.
I don't care that it doesn't, I just think it should, because it's a Project, and therefore special. Why should a Project reduce your terraforming time, or give you immunity to probes, or give you population that you didn't grow, etc., etc., etc.?It's a Project. It overrides the usual rules and gives you a talent.
I don't see any reason the a project should override the usual rules, rather than just applying to every base you own. In fact, it does not.
(By the way, you can test everything I'm saying by using the scenario editor.)Yes, but I'm not that familiar in using the editor, and my playing around won't necessarily result my understanding the order in which citizens get improved, like you stated.
If there are superdrones, it's supposed to first turn workers into talents, then superdrones into normal drones, then normal drones into workers and then talents, but because of the double-counting bug it will sometimes turn a superdrone into a normal drone when there are still workers who can be turned into talents instead.
I don't care that it doesn't, I just think it should, because it's a Project, and therefore special. Why should a Project reduce your terraforming time, or give you immunity to probes, or give you population that you didn't grow, etc., etc., etc.?
So that would mean the two talents turn two superdrones into drones, which makes four drones, then the Rec Commons turns two drones into workers, so two workers, two drones (which is the answer I had before, by the wrong method). Isn't that the way it's "supposed" to be?