Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Topic started by: Buster's Uncle on October 28, 2012, 07:08:37 PM

Title: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 28, 2012, 07:08:37 PM
(Not to spoil the ending or anything, but here's the Custom Factions Section on the AC2 Wiki (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Category:Custom_factions).  Now on with the thread...)



Here's a project idea that I'm just never going to get to, but would be INSANELY useful to AC modders everywhere.  I'm trawling through my collection of other people's custom factions, over 90% of which is NN stuff, looking for aquatic factions.  I'll never get back the over an hour I've already spent.

(Here's the big file with the whole shebang I'm referencing: http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=102 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=102)  No modder should be without this resource on their hard drive.)

If someone took the trouble to comb through and make lists of categories like that - Earth nation/national pride factions would be another useful one, .txt factions that could use an artist looking for a projects is another, also - incomplete art, crappy art that could use tweaking (even a lot of otherwise good ones where the bases and/or leaderhead needs more shading and realism, which happens a lot with NN stuff), magic/psychic factions, terrafromer/colonist factions, Unity crew/reunite the misson factions, dark/bad guy/evil factions, alt. Progs, WWII sorta factions (there are several), and a million other categories I'm just not thinking of right this second.

You'd need something that will let you view .pcx files to make a competent job of it.  Google GIMP if you don't have such a program - it's free.

A master alphabetized catalog of everything w/one or two sentence description would be a good start.  You'd be welcome to include the 57 custom factions of mine here http://alphacentauri2.info/My%20Custom%20Factions/Custom%20Factions.htm (http://alphacentauri2.info/My%20Custom%20Factions/Custom%20Factions.htm) too.  Any factions from other sources should be added as we become aware of them.

If you really want to unleash your inner obsessive/compulsive pedant, adding thumbs of leaderheads, bases, logos and diplomacy landscapes with each entry would be capital.  I mean, SUPER helpful.  (It's easy to make the thumbnails in GIMP or another program.)  We can worry about breaking it into categories later.  Many factions will belong in several, depending...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 28, 2012, 07:28:02 PM
Mindworm factions.  I've done two, and there are at least two more in the NN collection.  Kilkakon, the Worms faction in 23634_dmmfactionpack10 is a way better graphic design than Antimind, IMAO.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 28, 2012, 08:54:37 PM
Factions with good art but Hive/other official bases, factions that need stuff scanlined - there was a time when I was a beginner looking around for faction graphic projects, and lists organized like this would have done a lot of good, and would have resulted in much improved graphic versions being available for EVERYONE's use...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on October 29, 2012, 02:49:44 PM
A database, as you suggest, that would pool together all the NN factions under banners of what people are looking for sounds like a great idea to me. :D It takes a good 5 minutes to shift through all the factions.

@BUncle I'm not sure which one you are talking about. I don't have any scenario factions other than the Return to Earth one. Unless the NN download here is more comphrensive than the one I have.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 29, 2012, 02:54:25 PM
I never did anything to sort out downloads from other sources, so I can't swear this is Network Node stuff.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on October 29, 2012, 03:00:22 PM
I prefer Antimind as an idea (it is one of my childhood yay factions), although the fungal tower cities look pretty decent. :)
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 29, 2012, 03:06:33 PM
No idea how they play, and of course I'm attached to the two take-over-human(and Cha)-faction factions I've done, but this is a solid graphic design, is all, while I find Antimind a little busy and confusing to look at by comparison.

Still, that's four worm factions that would be neat for some novelty/theme game.  Probably a good springboard for a GotM scenario...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 29, 2012, 03:44:13 PM
In fact, the index would be endlessly valuable to the GotM team...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 29, 2012, 04:08:24 PM
I realized that I'd been remiss in not linking the NN collection we have in Downloads (and suggesting GIMP for viewing/making thumbnails) in the OP.  This has been rectified now.

I'm counting on someone with a lot of patience and stamina to make themself VERY popular by taking this task up.  This could be used as a project development thread, with as little as one faction summary entry posted at a time until it's done and we look at how to organizes the index.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on October 31, 2012, 07:33:54 AM
Well not me, not now, at least, as I have already volunteered for other things that I better get on with first.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 31, 2012, 01:33:13 PM
Absolutely.

I thought of the perfect guy for this job two days ago, after I initiated this thread, but he despises me and would have to be lured out of retirement.  In fact, I can think of three people who would be perfect, and alas, they all hate my guts.  ;)

Probably better to hope for a third party to step up.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 11, 2012, 05:52:18 AM
I'm bumping this sucker from time to until some brave soul volunteers, so save everybody the wait and me the trouble by volunteering now... :whip:
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on November 14, 2012, 03:55:51 PM
If we get a wiki I can work on then I'll see what I can do. Infoboxes/other templates, categories, and collaborative editing would make it much easier/more useful. Looks like this (http://code.google.com/p/smf-wiki/) could be a pretty fun option. I love wikis, and there's plenty of other potential uses for one.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 14, 2012, 04:01:17 PM
Great!  But-

I wouldn't even begin to know how to go about getting a wiki...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on November 14, 2012, 04:45:07 PM
Someone with root access would need to install and configure one, which probably means sisko. I found one possible which I linked from the previous post (also maybe useful link (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=272676.300)).
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 14, 2012, 04:49:15 PM
I'd already given him a heads-up, but he seems preocupied ATM, and may not have seen yet.  He'll take interest and know what to do, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: sisko on November 14, 2012, 05:20:33 PM
there's a big problem with that plug-in. it is not finished and the author stopped working on the mod some one year ago. investing work in something that we can lose in a month or two when we update the forums again is not a good idea.

i can try installing this plug-in though: http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=3185 (http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=3185)
i think it does the same things.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on November 14, 2012, 07:35:57 PM
hm, the biggest thing missing from that seems to be a template system. Also, it seems like the primary wiki page is just a list of articles, rather than being able to set up a more useful customized main page linking to various categories of content/displaying editing information or current projects. Lack of auto TOC would be annoying. And I don't see anything about edit history being stored, which is kind of essential, though maybe that's just not noted in their documentation. Also no note of the kind of anti-vandal/spam tools available on MW (rollback, nuke, regex black/whitelists, patrolling), only approval.

On the plus side, the style integrates easily and it does have some features which mediawiki would not without extensions (rate, fine tuned edit access, attached comment threads(?), report features), though those seem to me like much less important features than it lacks compared to MW.

hm, right. Do you have any ideas about how to track down the system used by SMF themselves (http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Special:Version)? They'd definitely want to keep that compatible with whatever new release you'd upgrade to. I've found a few possibles with a little googling, but am not sure which they're using.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: sisko on November 14, 2012, 07:42:43 PM
I've found a few possibles with a little googling, but am not sure which they're using.
give me the links. i'm not aware of any public release of their wiki plug-in.

never mind, i found it: https://github.com/SimpleMachines/smf-mw-auth
i have some studying material in there.  :)
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on November 28, 2012, 01:33:31 PM
I'd still like to do this and have been planning out page layouts etc, any progress/findings about practicality?

Edit: Also 7zip (latest version)/jZip seem to not support whatever compression is used on the download? If someone could advise on what program to use or upload a differently compressed version it would be handy.

Edit2: Got them from WPC, not sure if that includes all of them though.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on November 28, 2012, 06:44:59 PM
Made a template to display most faction bonuses (not all yet, can add the rest). Here's the code for the template (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Esp261/sandbox&action=edit), a page created using the template (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Esp261/sandbox2), and the code showing how the template is used (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Esp261/sandbox2&action=edit) (using it is really easy, basically). I can add graphics and other fancy things if we get a wiki, and make extend its use (e.g. hover text for effects of social table changes, searchable autocatagorization/tagging based on bonuses).

Edit: And in the unlikely event that WP deletes my sandbox page, I've also put the template up here http://test.wikkii.com/wiki/Template:SMACFaction (http://test.wikkii.com/wiki/Template:SMACFaction)
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on November 28, 2012, 07:10:49 PM
Basic page layout:

infobox - template from previous post, improved and prettified (add justifications, add AI info like aggressiveness and values, add all the bonuses/penalties, add some automatic tagging/categorization system, add graphics (faction portrait, ingame symbols))
leader/flavor inforbox - faction quotes, leader info (maybe AI stuff/faction portrait here?). floats right too, below or above general infobox?
how the faction plays - with subsections for human strategies and how the AI handles it.

It'd also be good to integrate a link to a discussion thread about the faction into each page. And probably a specific download link.

I think a great community project would be each week(?) pick one(?) faction (or overlapping testing periods, say, three weeks each, and stagger the start of each by a week) and playtest/debate the balance of it, make necessary changes (if none are needed that's great, but worth checking) while keeping the spirit of the faction, then add it to a category of generally balanced factions/write up a description for the wiki based on experience in the thread. We could build up a nice set of factions that way, I think. I'd be up for co-leading that (having someone reliably active to ensure one of us gets threads up would be sensible) if/when we get a wiki :)
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 28, 2012, 07:13:51 PM
I'm going to prod sisko about this.  It should come as no surprize to hear that I believe in this project...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: sisko on November 29, 2012, 10:21:01 AM
i should be able to work on the wiki project this Sunday. i hope i can get the test forum online till then. this way we can test the bridge before adding the feature to the 'production' site.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on November 29, 2012, 10:53:52 AM
Excellent, I'll keep planning/preparing templates then. And start a preliminary thread to the faction balancing project (establish guidelines, pick a co-leader, get some ideas for the first faction we'll work on), if that's cool with you guys?
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: sisko on November 29, 2012, 11:03:15 AM
.., if that's cool with you guys?
of course it's cool! we need more people like you, ete. ;b;
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on November 29, 2012, 11:41:13 AM
Ok, on it :)

Shall I collect up a set of recommended extensions for mediawiki? If yes, it would be handy to know which version you're likely to use, since more are prepackaged with recent versions, and some are incompatible with old, but there are some which would be useful with with any version The skinning system changed significantly in recent versions and the official docs site uses 1.16 (latest is 1.20), so it's quite likely that there's no SMF skin compatible with the latest version, but to be compatible with old skins we'd miss out on quite a few cool things (take a look through the release notes (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Release_notes) if you like).
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: sisko on November 29, 2012, 12:01:53 PM
from what i'm reading in the bridge documentation, going beyond 1.18 would be a big gamble.
besides the SMF skin, what else are we loosing if we go with 1.18? (i mean the functionalities that you were intending to use in this project)
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on November 29, 2012, 12:27:09 PM
Right, I don't see much in 1.19 or 1.20 which would be useful. Some note about new version of Cite being fully featured with 1.20, but old cite was good enough, and that's fairly minor anyway.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 01, 2012, 01:19:15 AM
I used to be a sysop of a wiki site. One of the things you really have to watch for is that wikis tend to attract twenty tons of spam. Wiki spammers are far worse and more persistant than forum spammers because most wikis are more liberal about links. Wikimedia anti-spam tools are in my opinion much weaker. The only reason the large wikis get away with it (ie: wikipedia, rational wiki, conservapaedia, ED) is merely the sheer number of editors watching the pages day and night with auto-protect buttons ready. More link-tos = better SEO for what ever rip off spam site, so they do have motivation.

I would suggest if you do put a wiki up, you limit the ability to edit to folks who request permission.

Plus, sisko is right. Wikimedia requires it's own maintainence on top of your forum.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 01, 2012, 01:22:19 AM
Added point:

However, a wiki that uses a Table of Contents (ToC) would be a lot easier to locate much of the resources your site has other than hoping to find some thread or the DLs section which is sparse on describing what you are actually DLing.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on December 01, 2012, 05:04:12 PM
I used to be a sysop of a wiki site. One of the things you really have to watch for is that wikis tend to attract twenty tons of spam. Wiki spammers are far worse and more persistant than forum spammers because most wikis are more liberal about links. Wikimedia anti-spam tools are in my opinion much weaker. The only reason the large wikis get away with it (ie: wikipedia, rational wiki, conservapaedia, ED) is merely the sheer number of editors watching the pages day and night with auto-protect buttons ready. More link-tos = better SEO for what ever rip off spam site, so they do have motivation.

I would suggest if you do put a wiki up, you limit the ability to edit to folks who request permission.

Plus, sisko is right. Wikimedia requires it's own maintainence on top of your forum.
I created and ran a fairly large wiki for over a year. Mediawiki has plenty of effective anti-spam measures (regex black/white lists for urls, a load of different capachas on edit or registration, and really easy ways to delete any spam), and should easily be configureable to use the forum's spam resistance (make the drone usergroup unable to edit, only a spambot which was able to spam on forum can spam there). Some wikis do not make best use of the anti spam tools available, which does, unsurprisingly, lead to spam problems. I can advise on (or, with access, help configure) ways to prevent almost all spam. Limiting to people who request permission is a totally unnecessary hurdle for editors and administrative burden.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on December 02, 2012, 01:43:49 AM
Ok, finished adding (I think) all the infobox variables about a faction you will realistically want. I'll do the more advanced features like autocategorization and images when we've got more to play with (our own categorization system, not having to vaguely worry that WP will get annoyed at me using their pages for testing) and put up some documentation on how to use it. For now, a very untidy version of the template (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Esp261/sandbox3).
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on December 02, 2012, 02:55:21 PM
Some possible extensions (ConfirmEdit (needs configuring), Gadgets, Nuke, ParserFunctions, Renameuser, Vector, WikiEditor are bundled with 1.18):
MsUpload (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MsUpload) - Vastly better upload interface.
Lingo (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Lingo) - Gives automatic hover text on a set of terms (can be configured to first appearance on a page). Would allow abbreviations to be used without risking confusing new users.
SpamBlacklist (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpamBlacklist) - Excellent anti spam tool, allows us to copy over Wikipedia's banned URL list which should stop most bots.
ImageMap (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ImageMap) - Allows clickable imagemaps. Would be very nice for a clickable technology tree image, for example. Not that many uses, but they are very good uses.
Cite (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite/Cite.php) - Citations are cool. Not essential, but useful.
CategoryTree (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CategoryTree) - Improves Category page view, allows embedding of category trees. Non essential, but some uses.
Poem (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Poem) - Allows a tag which preserves single linebreaks. Important for basename lists, for example.
Replace Text (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Replace_Text) - Special page for mass replacing text. Helpful for maintenance, but should be restricted to only a small number of users since mistakes are annoying to clear up.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on December 04, 2012, 01:28:29 PM
Just found a link to http://alphacentauri.us/fac-tool/rate.htm (http://alphacentauri.us/fac-tool/rate.htm.). I can definitely implement that as automatically calculated by the template, and improve on it, for example by making different anti-ideologies larger or lesser penalties, being more specific with free facilities, tweaking social benefit boosts so that +1 industry is worth more than two unity scout 'copters or robust economy (having human made faction ratings to know how it should look will help a lot, so please head over to the thread (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2745) and give input).
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 04, 2012, 07:52:28 PM
I used to be a sysop of a wiki site. One of the things you really have to watch for is that wikis tend to attract twenty tons of spam. Wiki spammers are far worse and more persistant than forum spammers because most wikis are more liberal about links. Wikimedia anti-spam tools are in my opinion much weaker. The only reason the large wikis get away with it (ie: wikipedia, rational wiki, conservapaedia, ED) is merely the sheer number of editors watching the pages day and night with auto-protect buttons ready. More link-tos = better SEO for what ever rip off spam site, so they do have motivation.

I would suggest if you do put a wiki up, you limit the ability to edit to folks who request permission.


Plus, sisko is right. Wikimedia requires it's own maintainence on top of your forum.
I created and ran a fairly large wiki for over a year. Mediawiki has plenty of effective anti-spam measures (regex black/white lists for urls, a load of different capachas on edit or registration, and really easy ways to delete any spam), and should easily be configureable to use the forum's spam resistance (make the drone usergroup unable to edit, only a spambot which was able to spam on forum can spam there). Some wikis do not make best use of the anti spam tools available, which does, unsurprisingly, lead to spam problems. I can advise on (or, with access, help configure) ways to prevent almost all spam. Limiting to people who request permission is a totally unnecessary hurdle for editors and administrative burden.

Yeah, now that I think about back then, our admin was a poor admin who never wanted to be around to do much and left us sysops to the wolves having to manually delete sometimes dozens of spam pages. I do not think the admins here would be that way. We were not able to play with the cool new anti-spam tools because our admin refused to, in his words, "be bothered" with having to "work". He even went off on a delete everything rage quit.

I doubt the good folks here would show such inmaturity.

Still, it was a pain back then.

EDIT:
Man, I enjoyed working on/editing/ and making that wiki look pretty. It was an ugly POS when I joined it, but towards the end it had really good articles that were mentioned on other forums. If AC2 had a wiki, I would definately pitch in. It would be useful stuff, too. Not just a poor man's copy/paste of the manual or Vel's SMAX guide.

Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on December 05, 2012, 12:17:46 AM
Yea, wiki's without someone around to handle the tech stuff (installing and configuring extensions mostly) tend to fall into disrepair.

It would be excellent to have an active editor who already knows their way around mediawiki like you around from the start. Some ideas beyond custom/official faction profiles I've been thinking over:
With not huge effort (a few regex find/replaces to sort out links, maybe manually setting up titles), I should be able to get the modified datalinks into a format we can mass import into the wiki automatically. That'll give us a good base, even if it will still need some work.
I found that Vel's guide was released into public domain, so we could use parts of that if we wanted to. But if there are people willing to write specifically for the wiki (faction descriptions, etc) that would be cool.

sisko, I'm going to be fairly inactive for some time around christmas, but if you can get it running (even with no extensions/styling) by the 11th-12th I should have a few days to focus on setting it up.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Yitzi on December 05, 2012, 01:53:03 AM
Just found a link to http://alphacentauri.us/fac-tool/rate.htm. (http://alphacentauri.us/fac-tool/rate.htm.)


Link doesn't work.  Fixed link (http://alphacentauri.us/fac-tool/rate.htm).  (You put the period inside the hyperlink, which of course makes it not work.)

And scout copters are at least somewhat useful.  Robust economy is literally useless.

I'd be interested in seeing a fixed version, as it might give some ideas as to what needs balancing among social engineering.  I know that industry is too powerful (I presume primarily due to crawlers, with a tendency toward small bases (and thus a need for a lot of facilities) causing substantial effects on that front as well.)
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 05, 2012, 03:54:55 AM
Yea, wiki's without someone around to handle the tech stuff (installing and configuring extensions mostly) tend to fall into disrepair.

It would be excellent to have an active editor who already knows their way around mediawiki like you around from the start. Some ideas beyond custom/official faction profiles I've been thinking over:
With not huge effort (a few regex find/replaces to sort out links, maybe manually setting up titles), I should be able to get the modified datalinks into a format we can mass import into the wiki automatically. That'll give us a good base, even if it will still need some work.
I found that Vel's guide was released into public domain, so we could use parts of that if we wanted to. But if there are people willing to write specifically for the wiki (faction descriptions, etc) that would be cool.

sisko, I'm going to be fairly inactive for some time around christmas, but if you can get it running (even with no extensions/styling) by the 11th-12th I should have a few days to focus on setting it up.

I have looked at a few game wikis. One of the problems I found is it is really hard on some of the smaller ones to actually get to the info you need. Now, if it is a gigantic game with thousands of link-to pages like Wowwiki, yeah, you ca do it like wikipedia.

However, for a smaller niche deal like this would be I think the front page should be like a Table of Contents-like structure. Under each anchor article you would have sub articles dealing with that topic. For example, you have a main Miriam page in ToC which would give all the canon info about Miriam. Under that though, series of all the articles we could find (or write) from strategy with Miriam to even commentaries on Miriam. Of course, lets not be dicks and DO give the original source and credit if it is not our own.

Network Node factions would be the same way with comments on completeness, ridiculousness, and what theme it falls under.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on December 05, 2012, 03:50:13 PM
Just found a link to http://alphacentauri.us/fac-tool/rate.htm. (http://alphacentauri.us/fac-tool/rate.htm.)


Link doesn't work.  Fixed link (http://alphacentauri.us/fac-tool/rate.htm).  (You put the period inside the hyperlink, which of course makes it not work.)

And scout copters are at least somewhat useful.  Robust economy is literally useless.

I'd be interested in seeing a fixed version, as it might give some ideas as to what needs balancing among social engineering.  I know that industry is too powerful (I presume primarily due to crawlers, with a tendency toward small bases (and thus a need for a lot of facilities) causing substantial effects on that front as well.)

Thanks, fixed. And yea, there's a lot in need of improvement on that, I think social engineering boosts are generally massively undervalued by it compared to other boosts. Will work on it when I can use a template to see how each change affects all factions.

I have looked at a few game wikis. One of the problems I found is it is really hard on some of the smaller ones to actually get to the info you need. Now, if it is a gigantic game with thousands of link-to pages like Wowwiki, yeah, you ca do it like wikipedia.

However, for a smaller niche deal like this would be I think the front page should be like a Table of Contents-like structure. Under each anchor article you would have sub articles dealing with that topic. For example, you have a main Miriam page in ToC which would give all the canon info about Miriam. Under that though, series of all the articles we could find (or write) from strategy with Miriam to even commentaries on Miriam. Of course, lets not be dicks and DO give the original source and credit if it is not our own.

Network Node factions would be the same way with comments on completeness, ridiculousness, and what theme it falls under.

mhm, for factions we'll definitely want a single page on each, with information, flavor, and strategy. I'm very keen on having single pages for secret projects, facilities, and techs though (if those are done on wiki rather than the official AC style site, which we'll discuss with people working on that), we can easily mass transclude them onto a single page as well, but single pages are easier to link to and it feels more comfortable to expand them. Also saves a huge page being loaded when you just want info on one, which is important on slow connections like mine.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on December 20, 2012, 01:54:22 AM
I'll be on low activity from the 22nd till early January. If there's a wiki to play with by then (even a not very decorated one, or one without forum account connection, though pretty and bridged would be much better), it'll almost certainly become my main project for some time. This will be fun (I like wikis and I like AC), and give this place a potentially very useful resource which can easily be expanded by the community (important templates and policies will be set up, I've driven and personally done much of the work of setting up a fairly large wiki before).
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 20, 2012, 05:39:04 AM
A lot of us are on low activity as of late. Thinking again, probably the best service to the NN factions is to just break them all up in DL section and describe what the hell each is with the stats. Altering some of them with ALIENTREATY and such to make them more SMAX compliant if someone actually plays (with AI it does not matter) them would be a nice thing to do, too.

Then again, at this date and age with a huge amount of 4xs taking off, not sure if that is a high priority. SMAX caught Civ 5 and Fallen Enchantress' lipstick on your collar. Do not worry, she will still be there to serve you mind worms when you get back.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on December 20, 2012, 06:15:01 PM
Describing them and having them in a form which is searchable is what a wiki would make vastly easier, particularly templates. And open editing makes it vastly more maintainable/improvable. Splitting the downloads however would be a good idea, though it'd be good to standardize a few things first (faction version/naming could get really messy with multiple people editing their own forks). The text files having an on wiki version history would solve a lot of this.

And it's not a high priority because it has to happen now, but it is a good idea to make happen soon if it's going to happen, because right now I don't have much in the way of projects which I really want to get on with. Take maximum advantage of this, and you'll get something really cool :).
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: sisko on January 16, 2013, 09:40:50 AM
ok. mediawiki 1.18.6 installed: http://alphacentauri2.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page (http://alphacentauri2.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
the bridge isn't working though.. or i am missing something obvious..
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on January 16, 2013, 01:28:42 PM
Excellent :)

hm.. I'm not seeing the extensions which are meant to be bundled with 1.8 (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.18#Bundled_extensions (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.18#Bundled_extensions)) on the version page (http://alphacentauri2.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:Version (http://alphacentauri2.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:Version)), wonder why that is. I'll put up an example faction page once Parser Functions (one of the bundled extensions) is enabled, since my template relies on that.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: sisko on January 16, 2013, 01:33:26 PM
you'll have to register to make changes..
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on January 16, 2013, 01:37:32 PM
yep, i know :p. no bridge, but that's okay.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: sisko on January 17, 2013, 10:20:33 AM
@ete: you have full rights now (admin and bureacrat).
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on January 17, 2013, 03:52:39 PM
Cool, thanks.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on February 05, 2013, 01:35:12 AM
Okay, the infrastructure for adding custom factions and searching them is in place, and the missing/imperfect bits can be added by template edits without needing to change pages again, so I'd like to ask anyone who wants to help out to start putting up networknode and official factions. Just put the name of the faction page you want to make in the url or search bar and hit create page, then add the factioninfobox (link on the mainpage http://alphacentauri2.info/mediawiki/index.php (http://alphacentauri2.info/mediawiki/index.php)). I've done plenty of examples: http://alphacentauri2.info/mediawiki/Category:Factions (http://alphacentauri2.info/mediawiki/Category:Factions)

Graphics and extras will happen mid-long term (many subprojects on the wiki, weee), and once the basic infoboxes are up we'll add a load more categories based on other things which it'd be good to search by. There will be a separate AI infobox.

Edit: BUncle, could you upload your collection of custom factions somewhere? It's pretty likely you'll have at least a few which would be hard to track down otherwise.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 17, 2013, 04:33:07 PM
ete, this thread http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2480.0 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2480.0) might be of interest.  It's what made me aware of the need for indexing - Kil and I posted or linked six aquatic factions therein...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on April 18, 2013, 03:52:50 PM
Okay, I'll put that in the faction collection thread.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 18, 2013, 03:54:57 PM
Geo is the author of the aquatic versions of the official factions, as seen in Ryn's Gallery.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Geo on April 19, 2013, 10:54:49 PM
I am? Please link me this gallery.
I know I did quite a bit quatic work at the time, but there's nothing on my comp anymore.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 19, 2013, 11:02:54 PM
vyeh posted it in Downloads at WPC for sure, a few pages along- I don't remember if the NN download I posted is a new one with all the non-NN stuff I have or if I just reposted Maniac's NN collection.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 19, 2013, 11:13:23 PM
Here's the link: http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=28 (http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=28)
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Geo on April 19, 2013, 11:32:45 PM
Thanks.
Don't think that was my work. Besides the Atlants in the big pack (NN) I haven't spotted anything I customized/made.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 19, 2013, 11:51:11 PM
I'd have sworn your handle was in the readmes, but the file structure is weird in that set, and it's hard to find stuff.

I have your Mars scenario somewhere.  I mentioned it (and Maybe linked) a few places in this folder where folks were talking about doing their own Mars scenarios...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Geo on April 19, 2013, 11:59:25 PM
Bloody hell! Now I remember! I indeed once worked on a watermap with human aquatic factions and land-based autochtone progenitor factions!
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 20, 2013, 12:18:53 AM
Yeah; I was sure you were the guilty party.

It's a very nice contribution to the world of custom factions, too.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Geo on April 20, 2013, 12:28:39 AM
't Was (IIRC) just adding the aquatic option in the faction text file.
But now I'm spent. Need to catch some zzz's...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: DrazharLn on June 30, 2013, 08:51:00 PM
I'll have a look at indexing these systematically sometime this week. It seems like it should be fairly simple to write a script to generate most of the wiki text from faction txts.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 30, 2013, 08:53:14 PM
Have you had a look at the wiki yet?  A good deal has already been done.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: DrazharLn on June 30, 2013, 09:01:48 PM
I didn't see it on a first pass. I see how to navigate the wiki now. There should definitely be more focus on the datalinks navigation box, it's where all the content is!
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 30, 2013, 09:07:19 PM
We're still talking about the wiki?  I find it a little difficult to browse myself, being not that used to wikis.  I'm sure ete, Guv, and company would be glad of any contributions you might choose to make.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: DrazharLn on July 01, 2013, 12:09:15 AM
The UI for the whole website leaves something to be desired, IMHO. But I don't know where to start fixing the design or how easy it would be to implement the fixes. Besides, as an infrequent user, my needs and opinions are rather less important than the regulars. If you lot don't mind, then there's not much point trying to improve it.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 01, 2013, 12:16:40 AM
I think you'll find that it's more a matter of things being arranged differently than you're used to, not (on the whole) in an inferior fashion.  I took a while to get used to non vBullletin software, too.

If you still think things on the forum could be arranged better in, say, a month or so, I would be glad to see you discuss it with sisko.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: DrazharLn on July 01, 2013, 12:38:41 AM
Thems were my feelings too.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 01, 2013, 12:44:21 AM
Not to say that I don't wish that SMF software did things more like the far more popular vB -it's surely a barrier to new members being comfortable getting involved- but I suspect hacks to fix the problem would tend to hurt our stability more than they'd be worth...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Sigma on July 19, 2013, 01:27:04 PM
Wow it is genuinely surreal to see this thread here, given that I used to post on Network Node and recognize about half a dozen factions on the wiki as my work, even ridiculous stuff like the Yeerk Empire and Ninth Generation. What a blast from the past.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Rymdolov on July 19, 2013, 04:11:15 PM
Wow it is genuinely surreal to see this thread here, given that I used to post on Network Node and recognize about half a dozen factions on the wiki as my work, even ridiculous stuff like the Yeerk Empire and Ninth Generation. What a blast from the past.

I, for one, think it's cool to have one of the veterans from Network Node around! I think you'll find a friendly atmosphere and that people are willing to help others with their custom facs. Welcome!
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 19, 2013, 04:11:54 PM
Ditto.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Sigma on July 19, 2013, 04:20:09 PM
Thanks! Unfortunately I can't really help with archival purposes because all of the material I had on my old factions was lost like three computers ago.

If I recall correctly the ones I actually built were:

The Aardom Federation (my baby and the one I played as the most)
The Ninth Generation (my god those were some ridiculous base names)
The Children's Alliance (lol)
The Yeerk Empire
The Animorphs (my favorite book series when I was a kid and playing SMAC for the first time)
Another animorphs themed faction based on a Yeerk-Human alliance
One I can't remember its name, it was a gimmick faction based around an insane asylum that went up for one of their theme Sets

The name I used back then was Aalogin, so if that name is on any other factions then they're mine too.

Back when I first started playing I was morbidly terrified of falling behind technology in the game, so my faction design philosophy was basically RESEARCH!!!!, so practically all of my factions have some kind of research bonus, except the Yeerks who had a very significant research penalty. Because they were EVIL, you see.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 19, 2013, 04:44:24 PM

The Ninth Generation (my god those were some ridiculous base names)
The Children's Alliance (lol)


Someone's been very busy to have given birth to that many people.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 19, 2013, 04:46:38 PM
Are we talking everything, or just the .txt end, or what?
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Sigma on July 19, 2013, 04:54:28 PM
Just the txt end. I was writing those factions probably 11 or 12 years ago, and I had no knowledge of photoshop or GIMP or anything. Nowadays I know a lot more and can put together my own pcxs, but I'm not that that great. I'm hoping that with the modding project I'm starting I'll be able to improve my skills.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 19, 2013, 04:57:49 PM
You find a lot of help with that here.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: JarlWolf on July 19, 2013, 06:52:52 PM
Yes, don't be afraid to ask help. Myself, Kilkakon, BUncle and others are all able graphics designers, and as for text Rymdolov, myself, BUncle, Kilk can help too.

If you need some serious coding or need to know the effects of different things in game, like what does what and where and when, Yitzi is one of your best bets. Yitzi is probably one of the more knowledgeable folks and wizards of coding we have on the forum.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on July 25, 2013, 04:07:00 PM
Oh Children's Alliance! I remember those~ ;b;
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 05, 2013, 09:48:35 PM
ete, a thought - I could point you at a number of instances of unfinished community faction projects - The Strategist (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2378.0), for instance, that might be worth looking at with an eye towards including in your project to whip incomplete/broken factions into shape.

Community factions are a fun way to stir up activity, and it's fun to kick it around with anyone who wanders in, but for reasons mostly of bad luck, I've never seen one complete.  I can point you at about five, some of which ALMOST completed before all the tech guys disappeared.  We're talking I did all or most of the primary faction .pcx already - so we're not talking about starting out in the middle of nowhere.

For the first time, I find myself in a community with a deep enough bench that I think we could do it.

And for that matter, there's the Deadlock factions on my faction page - only art, because Darsnan dropped dead retired on me before we finished.  In that case, I think I have (proposed) stats for all of them in old (late 2009) emails, but never found the time and tech inclination to dig all that up and finish the things.  I wouldn't mind help on that a bit, as I'll probably NEVER get around to it on my own - knowledge of the Deadlock games would be a big plus in a collaborator, of course.

I daresay The Strategist, in particular, has a ferociously strong hook, both visually, and conceptually...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on August 05, 2013, 10:29:05 PM
Yeah, BU, a few AARs and a custom faction frenzy has gotten activity on the boards up as late. I like. I used to be a purist who though custom factions would not be fun. But, this stuff has actually breathed new life into the game. Too bad it is a SP only thing. Not that I have a problem with sandbox SP, but I would love to see what a decent player would do with say, Antimind.

Then again, you are at a lull time for games. Not much being released right now. The AAA MMOs are between expansions, and other releases are being delayed on the 4x front. Alpha Centauri is one of those games folks always go to during lull times.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 05, 2013, 11:07:52 PM
I note as an aside that I bumped this thread in preference to a lot of custom faction talk going OT in the AC2 Wiki thread.

Here http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=1252.0 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=1252.0) attached to the last post, is an alt. official faction art set I did for a new Muslim who wanted to get right with the 'no graven images' thing.  That's the SMAC factions, intended to be run with unaltered .txts and this art replacing the standard - the leaderheads are replaced with designs.  I suppose this would be right for extra-observant orthodox Jews for exactly the same reason.

(Now, a certain hater/bigot of my acquaintance badmouthed me behind my back for humoring a "crazy" person {and because he thinks Muslims aren't a lot better than Nazis}.  -And I say screw that noise!  Millions of followers of the Prophet out there, millions of hardcore Jews, some of whom wouldn't dream of playing with the standard version of SMAC(X) because of the pictures of people in it - and there's something wrong with me wanting to make SMAC available to more people?  Shut the heck up, fool.)

What caused me to think of this is that one of those community faction projects I was talking about was a Latin American faction, and another was Scottish.  I did some art for the former, and you know what?  I'd really like it if that one got completed; there's a continent plus worth of people in the Spanish world - and some of them can get by in English well enough that I'd like to recruit them into our community.  (The same reason we have folders here  en Español and en Français.) 

We were talking about how to index, a bit teeny bit dismissively, some national factions this morning in the Wiki thread; and I do want to point out that just maybe, the Canadian faction and the Finnish faction might have an appeal to certain demographics.  If you don't believe me, google Lt. Uhura, Martin Luther King, and Whoopie Goldberg together; King was right that what Nichols was doing was important, and what it meant to Whoopie as a child bears him out.  National factions can matter in the same way for the same reasons, which is worthwhile enough by itself, but also make for potential recruiting bait.

So, there's that...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on August 05, 2013, 11:24:00 PM
I note as an aside that I bumped this thread in preference to a lot of custom faction talk going OT in the AC2 Wiki thread.

Here http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=1252.0 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=1252.0) attached to the last post, is an alt. official faction art set I did for a new Muslim who wanted to get right with the 'no graven images' thing.  That's the SMAC factions, intended to be run with unaltered .txts and this art replacing the standard - the leaderheads are replaced with designs.  I suppose this would be right for extra-observant orthodox Jews for exactly the same reason.

(Now, a certain hater/bigot of my acquaintance badmouthed me behind my back for humoring a "crazy" person {and because he thinks Muslims aren't a lot better than Nazis}.  -And I say screw that noise!  Millions of followers of the Prophet out there, millions of hardcore Jews, some of whom wouldn't dream of playing with the standard version of SMAC(X) because of the pictures of people in it - and there's something wrong with me wanting to make SMAC available to more people?  Shut the heck up, fool.)

What caused me to think of this is that one of those community faction projects I was talking about was a Latin American faction, and another was Scottish.  I did some art for the former, and you know what?  I'd really like it if that one got completed; there's a continent plus worth of people in the Spanish world - and some of them can get by in English well enough that I'd like to recruit them into our community.  (The same reason we have folders here  en Español and en Français.) 

We were talking about how to index, a bit teeny bit dismissively, some national factions this morning in the Wiki thread; and I do want to point out that just maybe, the Canadian faction and the Finnish faction might have an appeal to certain demographics.  If you don't believe me, google Lt. Uhura, Martin Luther King, and Whoopie Goldberg together; King was right that what Nichols was doing was important, and what it meant to Whoopie as a child bears him out.  National factions can matter in the same way for the same reasons, which is worthwhile enough by itself, but also make for potential recruiting bait.

So, there's that...


There are zealots in any religion BU. Just best not to entertain them or you give them power.

I have seen:
Militant Atheists
Born again Wiccans
Book burning Christians

Thing is , behind zealotry is a closemindedness. There is also a hint of selfishness. If only they realized that all religions (or lack of belief) has some positive points to it and get over all the hysteria designed only to recruit and keep money in the tithe/donation box.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 05, 2013, 11:32:49 PM
Zealotry?  Hater-Lad is just being an Angry Young White Man - I used to be one; it's very common affliction among us nerdz.  People who keep thinking and observing carefully and searching for The Truth can grow out of that pernicious brand of only-right-so-far-as-they-go ethnocentrism, as I eventually did, so I have hope for him someday...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on August 06, 2013, 01:29:02 AM
Noted about community factions being useful sources. My feeling is that it's easy enough for one person to make a good faction in a few hours, then get feedback from the community, and spreading it out makes it harder to make decisions, plus you'll usually have one person calling the shots anyway. They're cool as projects, but maybe better to go "here is this neat idea for a faction, feedback of how to make it work well appreciated" if you want a good faction without waiting forever.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2013, 01:48:24 AM
Well, I do hope you'll have a look at the link above and index the halal/kosher SMAC alternate faction art in the wiki.

The rest, I'm content to talk up in hopes of getting more help.  [shrugs]  I ain't done a faction project by myself since early 2009, because collaborating is more fun.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on August 06, 2013, 01:53:48 AM
Alternate faction art would be a nice thing to have as a download pack linked from somewhere, but I'm not sure the wiki is the right place for it?
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2013, 02:15:30 AM
I don't see why not.  Useful custom faction stuff is useful custom faction stuff, and the point of the indexing project is to make finding what the user wants easier, and the definition of useful is not limited to what you or I personally find it to be.

Does that leave off the alt. gender set, too?  The entire difference is that most of them need a name altered in the .txt (I did do that for some I played a novelty game with, so those have .txts included.)  I'm not sure drawing a line on either side of that is a good idea.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on August 06, 2013, 02:18:15 AM
hm, but I'm not sure how it would fit into the category structure, would they be listed as separate factions? I'd think a link from the wiki pages to a download would be more useful to those who want that kind of modification, do they particularly need to see the png version first?
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on August 06, 2013, 02:20:20 AM
Don't forget my Acolytes. :) Yet to see anybody play them :O

Doesn't help their main power won't work until Scient gets his act together. :(
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2013, 02:23:17 AM
hm, but I'm not sure how it would fit into the category structure, would they be listed as separate factions? I'd think a link from the wiki pages to a download would be more useful to those who want that kind of modification, do they particularly need to see the png version first?
Yes they do, inherent to the nature of the thing.  [mildly] I think if you even consider any artless .txt factions for including for a second, excluding .txt-less art is a gross insult to my side of the street.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2013, 02:26:38 AM
(Artists were actively discriminated against at my first AC forum, so I'm a bit touchy on that subject.)
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on August 06, 2013, 03:16:37 AM
I can see how you may consider it an insult, but the faction archive is.. well.. an archive for factions. Art is a very important part of a faction and considerably more work than text, but ultimately text is the bit which defines how the faction plays and contains much more structured information which can be used for helpful categorization.

The reason for including artless text but not textless art as full factions are pretty sound imo. In rough order of importance:
1. You can't categorize textless art in an automatic meaningful way (like "this faction has a bonus to Morale")
2. Textless art lacks an official name, so you can't pick what page to put it on (especially bad for factions which have the same name as an existing one, name conflicts yay)
3. You can play a meaningfully different game with just text (+default art), you can't with just art (+default text) since it's exactly the same game with a different look

I'm very open to having an art archive on the wiki, but that's a slightly separate project and something I personally would consider less enjoyable to create and maintain than a faction archive, since graphics are not something I can work with directly currently or manipulate via templates. If you would like to build one I am more than happy to answer any questions about mediawiki and build most of the category structure and templates required.

Having an option for alternate graphics on faction pages would be more fitting, but that is non-trivial to set up. If you feel it's worth the effort and are willing to at least help maintain it I'll put it on my to do list.

But really, I think having a single page like: Non-graven images pack
on the wiki (or even forum!) with previews of graphics and a download link would be.. far more useful, easier to create, and more sensible.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on August 06, 2013, 03:19:42 AM
I'd say artless factions are in a sub category as well, of course.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2013, 03:45:06 AM
I'm not going to discuss this subject any further tonight.  That would be a bad thing.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on August 06, 2013, 04:38:54 PM
:( BU, I'm really not trying to have a go at you.

Useful custom stuff is useful custom stuff, but it's a different kind and needs a different organizational structure to be most useful (e.g. Category:Available base images, Category:Available diplomacy landscapes, Category:Available art files, so people can find art to go with their text files.).. and I'm offering to make that for you, but I'd rather not take on the project of maintaining it and keeping it updated, because art organization is not something which interests me as much for various reasons.. primarily that I would always be the "middle man" with people passing me art to update with rather than updating it themselves, whereas with text I can actually be useful in a direct sense. If someone else is willing to work with me on it and commits to updating things then I'll put a fair amount of work into it, but I'd rather not do this one on my own. Surely that's not too unreasonable?
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 25, 2014, 02:20:20 AM
...I think the best argument, and one you're not using here, is that a .txt faction w/o art is still playable (looking like Deirdre/Gaians, the default graphic) while the converse is not true...

However, I'm still adamant - I suggested the indexing project that resulted in the Wiki happening as a modder resource in the first place, and under that very worthy rationale, including .txt-less faction art is still more than warranted.  I want that work currently useless out there where modders can find it and make it useful.  The AC Wiki and its searchability is ideal for that.  We are a modder-heavy community, and indexing/displaying/including the art -not just elements to use peacemeal, although I have files for that posted in downloads, too- is useful and worthwhile, QED.

Hopefully someone will step up and help with that - the AC Wiki needs more contributors/editors, period. ;nod
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on June 08, 2014, 09:00:55 PM
I am, and was, fully in favor of indexing that stuff. It just needs a different indexing structure:
"(e.g. Category:Available base images, Category:Available diplomacy landscapes, Category:Available art files, so people can find art to go with their text files.)"

I was, and am, not offering to maintain that archive because it is less interesting to me, and makes much more sense for an art guy to maintain anyway. Not because I don't think it belongs on the wiki.

I offered to set it up and work with a maintainer extensively, but that's a whole lot lower on my to do list these days. If someone turns up who's really enthusiastic about it, I'll still likely set up the tech side with a few templates and show them how to use it, though image uploads being broken makes things harder.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: JarlWolf on June 09, 2014, 04:00:56 AM
I would just categorize it as Textless art/factionless art because the art hasn't found a home with some text. The two are meant to be married to turn out a well loved faction- art is important to express the faction's character, and the text determines how that character operates.

Both have their merits, and to denounce one is to denounce the other. There is no discrimination against either text coder or artists on this forum, quite the contrary. Some rather great factions and faction sets have emerged from this community- Dio's alternate originals, Sigma's 7, my faction pack, the Exterminatus, Annilihators dual monsters that can be paired with the Antimind for full carnage, and Kilkakon's labour of love and exquisitely crafted Lost Eden conversion mod - etc.

And all of them have interesting text options, as well as great custom art.

But who knows if there is some factions who have no art; or art who have no factions/factions who have no code? They all deserve to be in a list so they can be known. A dead man on the battlefield has no name until he is ascribed one, and until then his memory is lost and forgotten, his loved ones never knowing what happened to him. Its important to give these things the proper listing, lest they be forgot.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on June 09, 2014, 05:54:50 PM
If someone's offering to maintain an art archive, then I am 400% in favor of having an art archive on the wiki.

Art on it's own is not a faction, it does not have faction name/text/sortable autocategorization. It needs a different form of categorization.

Putting artless factions in the faction archive is not a value judgement. It is accepting that the categories used by the faction archive (e.g. "Factions with a Planet bonus", "Factions in favor of Planned") do not exist for art, but do exist for artless factions.

Art needs a specially built art archive on the wiki to house it properly, complete with nice categories like "Base art", "Art in use", "Scratch bases", "Logos", and "Complete faction art" (as opposed to gameplay related categories and templates used in the faction archive). Which I offered to build, right at the start, with the fairly reasonable request that someone other than me maintain it.

That offer to help and build something much better for art to live in was apparently misinterpreted as an attack on artists, which was very unfortunate since I was trying as hard as I could to explain why that was not my intention.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on June 19, 2014, 01:59:30 AM
Well, my take on it is this.

Let's say I am someone who bought Alpha Centauri on GOG a few months back, but want some cool factions. Adding a cool faction already takes enough tweaks that more modern 4xs do not put you through (editing alphax, etc) and I just want a working faction that works with no drama.

I do not care, if I am this person, if it is only artwork even if it is beautiful because I wanted a working faction. This person is not a modder and art I useless to him. Amount of work involved aside, this would not matter.

I do not care, if I am this person, if only the text part is done. I really would not enjoy Hive reskin #34. Once again, if I was this person, I am only interested in complete and working factions. It needs the art, too.

BUT... if someone does want art for this ancient piece of software, I am sure these forums are the place to find it if you look. Arguably, this is one of the few places to look.

Just text I think is even less valuable than art. AC2 inherited many half arsed attempts by some dude 8 years ago at incomplete texts. Anyone interested in creating a faction would do better 99 percent of the time creating the text for a faction by scratch.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: ete on June 20, 2014, 05:05:24 PM
@Green1: You know, I mostly agree with you. Art is harder to create, and especially compared to most of the older unbalanced and often broken or uncarefully written .txts around, more valuable.

But art needs a different categorization system, because it lacks the kind of properties used by the faction archive to sort factions. A art archive, to be specific.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: bvanevery on April 16, 2018, 09:28:02 PM
I am in favor of "Faction" meaning a complete gaming product with artwork and text mods, as Green1 said.  My basis for experience in such matters is The Battle for Wesnoth.  An additional need would be a modern packaging and delivery system, not pouring energy into a wiki that players don't want to hunt and peck through anyways.  In the Wesnoth universe, Faction, Era, or Campaign authors would generally communicate something about the finished or not-finished state of the work, and would use version numbers.  I don't know whether efforts around this AC2 site will rise to that level of organization, but in the absence of such infrastructure, it's all pretty much "you're on your own" and arguing over wiki categories doesn't matter in that case.  As would be evidenced by 4 years of silence on this topic.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on April 16, 2018, 09:38:16 PM
Well, the guy that posted that is not even in the community anymore.

I think ete was a completionist type person that wanted to preserve everything. But, to be honest, there were A LOT on the Network Node that was some half-assed stuff some kid put on a forum board 15-20 years ago and is highly unlikely to remember it or come back to it.

Many, even the more popular like the Anti Mind has a bug. Anti MInd is missing ALIEN_FACTION_TREATY (forgive me if I have forgotten the actual text string) at the end of the .txt meaning if it offers a treaty, you become treatied with them even if you did not want to. No dialogue comes up.

You'd need a community pack along with a graphical alphax editor that puts these things in alphax for you without having to look up 15 year old how-tos to do.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: bvanevery on April 16, 2018, 09:59:41 PM
Yeah, infrastructure is the real world of deploying mods.  And there's still half-assed stuff, even when the bar has been raised with all the formal mechanisms necessary for deployment.  In the Wesnoth world, the half-assed just bitrots after awhile.  That's actually a historical problem for them, as even pretty good campaigns will be destroyed by the latest greatest revision of Wesnoth itself.  They expect the 3rd party authors to stay on top of all that themselves, because they're open source developers and have the usual public average of not caring about stability.  In the real world, someone did "that amazing campaign" at a time in their life when they had the energy and resources to do so, and people simply don't stay put as Wesnoth developers and maintainers indefinitely.  There's no money in it, and nobody sustains a career-esque level of interest in something absent money.

SMAC has a partial advantage in that the things one might mod from, aren't changing much.  There are plain vanilla versions of the game, where there's some historical official maximum patch level and then that's it.  There's Yitzi patch, which is not actively developed anymore.  I'm not convinced anyone else counts as far as gameplay goes.  If someone's work was deemed to count, at least there aren't that many people doing things, nor that quickly.

Wesnoth does keep their official "mainline" content stable, but last I looked a couple years ago, it was the same old boring stuff as ever.  They were an extremely conservative community about introducing anything new into it, or rennovating any of it.  Particularly the writing quality, which was mostly poor.

Wesnoth also had some "blessed archive" for really exceptional 3rd party campaigns etc., and the one I worked on got in there (but not because of me; in fact, going for that, was the issue that caused the lead dev to give me the boot).  I have no idea how it has held up over time.  There's a point at which I ceased to care, and just decided to take the lessons I'd learned to the next content development project, if there ever was one again.

Now I'm doing enough modding of SMAC that I could see one again.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on April 16, 2018, 10:22:32 PM
Wesnoth is also under continuous development, too. SMAX factions are highly unlikely to become obsolete unless a patch maker like Yitzi does something to fundamentally change the way the game reads factions, which is unlikely.

I am thinking more like a Lazy Newb Pack like dwarf fort has.... It installs everything for you!

It would have
- somewhat tested factions. No text, no art, lame? Not included. Matters not age. Has to be at least BU-level art and fit the genre.
- a graphical ALPHAX editor for the functions that really should be in an options menu!
- the latest stable Yitzi patch that HAS INSTALLER AND INCLUDES EVERYTHING YOU NEED WITHOUT SEARCHING!!! (I am going to catch stuff for that, I know.) Basically... Yitzi? Patch? Better game? Click here.... Not, get version 2.y ... but oh, you need a file 0.y kind of stuff.
- PRAX separate from Yitzi's, not included.
- ability to enable or disable components if one breaks.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: bvanevery on April 16, 2018, 11:18:54 PM
Could be a rational target.  "One package" might work until the assets get large enough that the size of the download is at issue.  Or the asynchronicity of updates is an issue, how to get the "latest greatest" of something.  That's why people use packaging systems, to allow the asynchronicity.  They may come at the cost of deployment complexity.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 17, 2018, 12:03:32 AM
...I would support such a thing...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on April 17, 2018, 12:11:46 AM
Well, I am thinking maybe 7 to 10 total factions to start. Maybe even that is too much.

Factions themselves don't take up too much as long as there are not DOZENS which is overkill and only the most no life (or enlightened hardcore) would play all of them

Fortunately, I do have recommendations.

- (FIXED) Antimind - but needs to be pumped up slightly!(Also needs a minor bug fix missing from conversion from SMAC to SMAX... ALIEN_FACTION_TREATY entries missing)
- (FIXED) Ete's Anihilators (need to remove HQ from all bases.. I think it causes a bug when trying to rescue a faction leader probe mission and random, disappearing factions or at least used to--- replace with more +EFFICIENCY)
- Jarlwolf's Crimson Comrades (okay as is for human faction)

those off the top of my head.. but it's merely taste..

Any recommendations you have?
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 17, 2018, 12:18:50 AM
Agreed about just the seven other factions slot available.  it'd still be quite a goody set - you have a bias for monsters, though...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on April 17, 2018, 12:40:20 AM
Agreed about just the seven other factions slot available.  it'd still be quite a goody set - you have a bias for monsters, though...

Well.. they are supposed to be...

What threat would Montezuma have if he was not coming to you early and messing your plans up in Civ 4? What would Ghandi had been but an also-ran AI in early Civ if he did not go ALL NUKES after being all peace-loving? These personalities must be backed by force..
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: bvanevery on April 17, 2018, 02:05:09 AM
Do you know of any games with mod packaging systems in wide use, other than Wesnoth?  Whether open source or commercial.  I'm wondering where one would go to school on best practices.  Skyrim seems to have the biggest modding community, last I looked.  However I didn't get deeply into it, because their modding looked like it was cookie cutter template driven, not programming driven.

I know that Civ IV was moddable with Python and that they had a SDK.  They dropped the Python like a hot potato and went to Lua for Civ V.  I'm not sure whether they had a SDK for that.  I know in any event people howled and many stuck with Civ IV.  Don't know what Civ VI has done.  Yes I could research it myself but wouldn't mind a slight short brain dump from someone who already understands.  Preferring to use spare brain cells for actual modding work at the moment, not logistical overheads.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: bvanevery on April 17, 2018, 02:33:06 AM
Judging by http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Modding_(Civ6) (http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Modding_(Civ6)) it looks like Civ VI is a Lua + XML + Steam + inherent game support modding ecology.  That doesn't actually help much for best practices, other than considering Lua as a scripting language for the undertaking.  Retrofitting a game that doesn't have mod support, to a website that isn't Steam, is its own beast.

The Nexus Mod Manager is free and open source under a GPL license.  However I'm willing to guess its features would revolve around Nexus Mods, and that doesn't help drive traffic to AC2.  Also they have no AC community there.  They do have 60 mods for Civ VI.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Green1 on April 19, 2018, 03:15:39 PM
Nexus Mods is for those people who don't buy stuff from Steam.

I am still kinda mad because there are some awesome mods for Age of Wonders 3 a lot of the remaining community uses. But the majority are only on Steam. I bought mine from GoG. But, I digress.

I should probably find time to "fix" Antimind then make sure some of the factions I remember can still be downloaded. Maybe in a day or two.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 19, 2018, 03:17:18 PM
Please?
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: MysticWind on May 13, 2021, 09:00:46 PM
Got a few questions about NN that I didn't want to make a new thread for.

1. Where did the archive in the OP come from? It's a great resource, but I don't think it contains every faction that was posted to that site.

2. I seem to remember that Apolyton used to host a NetworkNode faction archive. Is it the same one? Does anyone know where it is on that site? Their revamp broke a ton of links, so I might have to check with any remaining webmasters for these downloads.

3. Has anyone tried to scrape the Wayback Machine's archives of the original site pages? For instance, this one mentions factions that aren't present on the AC2 custom factions wiki (https://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Category:Custom_factions):

http://web.archive.org/web/20040212012112/http://www.networknode.org/delta.html
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 14, 2021, 01:15:50 AM
ISTR that Maniac originally posted the NN file that I placed in downloads.  I can't speak to the rest.

---

Hmmm.  I have a good deal of the files -I think I spent a few days scratching through Wayback about eight years ago- to do a NN recreation/archive, if only I knew my way around java/flash, or something like that...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: MysticWind on February 24, 2023, 09:23:57 AM
Did some light indexing as follows: Found the original Flash menu interface for NetworkNode.org in this archive (https://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/http://networknode.org:80/swf/factionnav.swf). Downloaded it and went down list of images to correspond with faction. Most are on the AC2 wiki.

Alpha
The Anarchists
The Gebazzu
The Path
The Rangers of Chiron
Replicants
The Syndicate
The Freelancers

Beta
The Atlanteans
NeoBorg
Terran League
Agri-Culture
The Artisans
The Ypunag
The Cult of Isis

Gamma
The Centauri Federation
Peacekeeping Assembly
Planet Health Services
The New World Activists
Jeoddra
Perfect Society
Empath

Delta
AntiMind
Droideka
Generic
The Imperialists
The Marauders
The Dark Spies
The Tech Triade

Epsilon
Aardom Federation / The Aardomites
Collective
The Elite
Genesis / The Genesis Project
The Juridic / Planet’s Law
Chiron Conservation Force
?

Zeta [Progenitor Civil War]

Eta
Vanguard of the New World
Bree
The Confederation
Gen-X
Morgan Merchants???
Brave New World
The Saints

Theta
Children’s Alliance
Assembly of the Synthetic
Manifold Seekers
Hellborn
Exiles’ Sanctuary
Dreams of Earth
Neveral Order

Iota [Seaworld]
Legion of Aquarius
Bringers of the Deluge
Full Fathom Five
Hydra Institute
Multimakers
O.E.C.
Triton Sect

Kappa
The Androgynous Community
Bards of Chiron
Guardians of Morality
Gemini Empire
Ishubu United
The Mech Prospect
The Showbiz Enterprises

Lambda [The Second Mission]
The Rensallir Corporation
Jorgenstad
Delgusia Inc.
CerraGen
Obrioshi
The Briach Estate
Serabollio

Mu
Manifold Chamber of Secrets
Animorphs (???)
Worshippers of Entropy
Unicon
Strangers
Plato’s Republic / Platonians
Yeerk Empire

Nu
The Return to Earth

I leafed through Eta's factionpack28-08-2013 a few times to correlate the factions. Still not sure which one is the Dr. Evil one. Also the Animorphs one might be wrong. This should be all of the NN.org factions except for the themed sets that I haven't elaborated upon yet.

Sources:
https://web.archive.org/web/20040215082236/http://networknode.org/election_poll.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20040202004601/http://networknode.org:80/news.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20040212012140/http://networknode.org:80/ac.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20030901163302/http://networknode.org:80/ac_archive.html
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 24, 2023, 12:28:25 PM
I THINK I've got everything, or near, that I'd need to recreate the site.  It's in Flash, which just as well be Mandarin, but I think there's a fairly easy workaround...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: MysticWind on February 24, 2023, 07:16:35 PM
Flash is deprecated on modern computers anyway. Maybe you can revive the pre-Flash version of NN.org?
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 24, 2023, 07:35:26 PM
What I can do is use the mac-looking interface as background art in a .html page w/ hotspots over the buttons, and a big .jpg patched together of the last news page to scroll though in a window in the center - mostly just need to be sure of all the downloads and apply some elbow grease.

Of course you want me to go for it.  You're you.  More egging on from others would help motivate me...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: MysticWind on February 24, 2023, 09:44:14 PM
I can do so after the fact by making a post on reddit, if you've got like an initial link or draft I can share.

I've been digging through ete's Ultimate Faction Pack whose link you fixed recently- thanks for that by the way- and most of the factions are from NetworkNode. I was planning on making a post on that, plus the archived bones of NN that's available on the Wayback Machine, anyway, for the nostalgia.

I actually think your suggestions in the OP would be fun to add for indexing's sake, it's kind of funny how many modders independently came up with similar ideas with questionable results- weird sci-fi fan concepts for Progenitor/Planetmind alien factions, random robot AIs, magical mysticism that doesn't fit the setting at all- and it'd be fun to examine them anyway, because it's fun in a cheesy goofy nostalgic way.

I can't promise you there will be a lot of commenters, but I'm sure people will upvote and I'll post it on the Discord, too, and heck also to Apolyton and CivFanatics too. If you build it I will link it.

Edit: Also, if you rebuild NetworkNode as a replica, maybe it you can also put your custom factions into it as a mirror, plus other projects like the SMAC Fac Pack or all of these (https://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2954.0). Consider it a more ergonomic alternative to the Wiki.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 24, 2023, 10:28:27 PM
That is not bad thinking at all.  I'd like to have everything individually linked on NN as separate Downloads entries for authenticity, but adding collection links?  Great idea.

I'll dig up what I've got - probably already got a screeny of the basic interface- after supper, for which I'm now late- and try to have something posted in a couple hours...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 25, 2023, 02:14:02 AM
(https://alphacentauri2.info/NetworkNode/NetworkNode769x589.png)
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 25, 2023, 03:14:11 AM
On your remarks about categorizing/indexing - seemed like every third faction circa 2000 on Apolyton was a terraformer faction, no kidding.

And I'd just like speak up for a funny categoryOne of my very first custom factions was tarting up an old pothead faction with Gaian bases and Shaggy in as leader.  I turned the bases into giant bongs, greener-colored because of all the window boxes.  Did a lot to Shaggy himself, to lend depth to a flat 4 color cartoon image.  That one still tickles me, and SIR - I don't even drink.

But I do love me a funny novelty faction...
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: MysticWind on February 25, 2023, 06:25:45 AM
That draft looks great! Let me know if there's a domain I can link to when you're ready for me to show off your re-creation.

On your remarks about categorizing/indexing - seemed like every third faction circa 2000 on Apolyton was a terraformer faction, no kidding.

That's odd. Do you think it's just because neither of the factions you think would be good at terraforming- the Gaians or the Cult, or the industry/construction-oriented Hive for that matter, are quite as good at forming as you might think? Weird niche, but good news for my own ideas, as I had a Settlers faction concept.

And I'd just like speak up for a funny categoryOne of my very first custom factions was tarting up an old pothead faction with Gaian bases and Shaggy in as leader.

If you still have it somewhere, you definitely should post it. Looking at the archive for NN, there were contests for factions, though unfortunately I don't think those were preserved as part of the sets. I definitely remember seeing a parody contest in the news. In a new NN, there definitely should be a category for novelty factions, as so many of them have already been made in history.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2023, 03:36:26 AM
https://alphacentauri2.info/My%20Custom%20Factions/MyPotheads.zip (https://alphacentauri2.info/My%20Custom%20Factions/MyPotheads.zip)

I'm remembering from extensive pre-join Lurk Moar as early as late 2008 - and I might have had a sense of why all the former factions back then, but over 14 years ago now.  -FWIW, I was looking for info about making custom factions - that might help you find what I did in a search...


---


And this - there's nothing actually done besides collecting what I could find of the NN site, latest version, and thinking about how to implement.  This isn't actually super high on my To-Do list.  I'm all for it in the abstract, but not so much for wanting to right away.
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: MysticWind on February 28, 2023, 12:44:28 AM
I was looking through my notes, and I actually bookmarked an old Apolyton thread (https://codehappy.net/apolyton/threads/6735-1.htm) from 2000 talking about a terraforming faction. Really goes to show how many times the idea had already been done before even back then!

Quote from: Omega
Terraforming Faction
I'd like to play a "terraforming faction" as envisioned below. Has anyone already made one and if so, is it downloadable? If not, can you help me finish this one:

The leader is formerly the Chief Geologist of the mission. Though an accomplished natural scientist, he has an engineering background as well, and a keen interest in fine arts. For some reason, I see him as a Frenchman.

"Frenchie" styles himself a "Sculptor of Worlds" or the "Architect of the Planet" and has a very definite vision of what Chiron should be made into. He sees his work as an artistic enterprise though also of tremendous practical importance. He is joined by people who share his vision, as well as "can-do" engineering types up for the challenge, and people with a pioneering attitude who want his help making the planet as inhabitable and bountiful as possible.

Obviously, this faction gets a PLANET penalty (-2). But I think "Frenchie" should have the option of gaining respect for the native landscape/lifeforms and integrating them into his grand design (i.e., Green Economics is not a forbidden choice).

The bonuses are harder to figure. I could justify a bonus for almost anything except ECONOMY and PROBE: +1 MORALE (hardy pioneering spirit); +1/+2 SUPPORT (for all the former units); +1 INDUSTRY (experienced in utilizing byproducts of terraforming and/or squeezing extra out of natural resources); +1 RESEARCH (natural science background and interest); +1 GROWTH (need more people to tame the land).

My current thinking is +1 RESEARCH and +1 MORALE. Bonuses to GROWTH and INDUSTRY would then be a matter of social engineering, such as Demo/Planned. SUPPORT would be reflected in an immunity to the penalty from Demo or perhaps the total immunity like the Hive has with efficiency.

Starting technology = Centauri Ecology. A second tech (a la SMAC-X factions), if any, would either be Biogenics (recycling tanks), Info Systems (computer modeling of geologic/climactic conditions), or perhaps most appropriately, Applied Physics (remember the Mining Laser?)

Starts with a free former unit, maybe a Mining Laser.

Maybe gets a free Recycling Tanks with every base.

Gets the Terraforming Bonus (half-price for raise/lower terrain). Better if it got the abilities of the Weather Paradigm right away but this doesn't appear to be possible with the Faction Editor.

Any suggestions on completing this faction or where to download a similar faction?


Quote from: Grigger
There already is a Terraforming faction out there, see http://www.sidgames.com/ac/filesdb/descript.cfm?ID=307 but that shouldn't stop you from making your own.


Quote from: Bblue
WOW, come back for a visit and looks like Omega had almost the exact same idea I had as far as factions are concerned 

I made one that is almost idealogically identical to what he discribes, If you are interested it can be dled at http://members.xoom.com/acchiron (it's a zoom site so you will have to type the link in manually) It is in the dl section under terraforming faction. 

It's a SMACX faction
All Customs graphics and blurbs (am sorta proud of it, lord knows I spend enough hours fine tuning it :P) It even seems to have that little 'gothic, dark' feel of most the pre-packaged factions

basically it gets
-2 Planet
+1 Industry

a free former
a free mining laser
Free Super former and fugisidal tanks when you develop the appropiete techs
reduced terriforming cost
Free Geosynchronous Survey Pods in every city
20% hurry bonus (this is removed in my most recent version, wasa bit too much, although the dl still contains it, you can edit it out)
Can't run Green
No preferred SE setting

Some design notes:
The AI can play this faction fairly well (a big plus)
This faction can both pop boom and run free market (a huge bonus I underestimated in the beta versions of this faction!)
-2 planet is a real penelty
early game hard to attack natives, you can lose fight with them!
Seems to be harder to sucessfully move through fungus
Pollution in mid- and late-game can be a MAJOR problem (especially since no Green)
Psi combat not a great option, as you never get a good planet rating
Goodies from fungus squares? yeah right :P

Free recycling tanks in ealry Beta versions leads me to believe that a faction must have A HUGE amount of negitives to offset this!!

With no preferred SE setting.. the AI tend to play this faction as a builder (which it was ment to be) and tends to help keep it from SOME Vendettas. As a result it builds lots of infrastructure, of the 'standard' factions (the only faction I have seen surpass it in infrastructure is the Drones)
Can really put out some tech if left alone
Over all this is a fun faction to play (yeah like I'm not biased :P)
It may still be a little on the strong side, but if so.. not but by a hair (It don't overwhelm other AI controled factions)


And I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg. Heck, in 2005 I made a thread looking for ideas and someone also provided a geoengineering faction (https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/alpha-centauri/151141-create-my-14th-faction?p=5346109#post5346109).

And this - there's nothing actually done besides collecting what I could find of the NN site, latest version, and thinking about how to implement.  This isn't actually super high on my To-Do list.  I'm all for it in the abstract, but not so much for wanting to right away.


That's fair, plenty of other projects to working on until then. Out of curious, though, do you know what the name of the Dr. Evil faction is in the Epsilon set from the list I posted above? It's really the only one I can't find information on. Also I believe I might be missing out more sets post-Nu. Looks like ete was looking for a Thunderbirds faction and "Virtucon" on Apolyton a decade ago (https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/alpha-centauri/ac-creation/251131-does-anyone-have-the-second-mission-progenitor-civil-war-or-waterworld-faction-sets).
Title: Re: Indexing the Network Node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 28, 2023, 12:48:28 AM
I'm drawing a complete blank on a Dr. Evil faction, and ete's stuff, too.
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