Alpha Centauri 2

Community => Recreation Commons => Topic started by: Buster's Uncle on October 02, 2012, 04:56:58 PM

Title: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 02, 2012, 04:56:58 PM
I live in a city where bicycling is common. There are co-ops that help you build bicycles. There are bike lanes everywhere. Walking to a store or to work is common and all the public transportation has bike racks. A good portion of the population does this and here, at least, you are not viewed as a "loser" for not having a car. There are other cities like this as well.

I have lived like this for years and I am in my 40s. However, due to my extreme lifestyle (which is not too extreme here) I look in my late 20s. You hardly ever see really fat people here unless they are tourists. I have seen other folks from the suburbia I left decades ago. Most of the middle class men have had strokes and hear attacks from a sedentary lifestyle. The women my age who were hawt now hideously out of shape behind a SUV that costs a years salary to some. So, I take small comfort.

There is nothing wrong with biking.. even into your 40s, 50s and beyond despite what society declares or some potential wannabe trophy wife may think they need to have to show off to the other soccer moms. One guy I know is my friend. He is 70. He looks 40. He never drives and rides bikes everywhere. Needless to say, dude has a wife 20 years younger, a nice house he bought for peanuts and fixed up, and a free life without rent or employers and his health... all for not paying extortion car notes, insurance, tickets from pigs that ambush honest citezens, and gas.
I find myself turning into a system-hater like you, Green.  I'm barely on the grid, but I had to go in for a debit card last week - I worried that my grumbling about the system sounded crazy to the banker.  ;nutz;  But man, the system and the bosses grind you up like hamburger, all the better to press-mold into slaves.

And every time I have to deal with medical professionals, I passionately reflect that something the Republicans are right about is the evils of bureaucracy...
Title: Re: The system-hater thread
Post by: Green1 on October 02, 2012, 06:32:06 PM
I find myself turning into a system-hater like you, Green.  I'm barely on the grid, but I had to go in for a debit card last week - I worried that my grumbling about the system sounded crazy to the banker.  ;nutz;  But man, the system and the bosses grind you up like hamburger, all the better to press-mold into slaves.

And every time I have to deal with medical professionals, I passionately reflect that something the Republicans are right about is the evils of bureaucracy...

Only some of the Republicans. The Right, like the left is also fragmented into different camps.

The rank and file, or shall I put it, common man Republican is typically a state or private college gradute who owns his own bussiness, is some sort of Doc or other proffesional, or is high up in a management position of a corporation or aspires to be. While I do not like thier agenda while I can not hate because I do see why they are the way they are. They simply want to keep a middle class lifestyle with as few constraints as possible. This means being able to do with those under them as they wish and keeping oil at a cheap level to drive 20 miles to and from work so they do not have to live near folks less fortunate. They also may be landlords. They wish to work the higher paid jobs with little physical labor and tons of respect while keeping thier kind in those industries and keeping others out (or making it harder) to crowd them out like what happened in IT.

The big money backers are all country club CEOs and those that go into debt trying to be like them. They want to keep that lifestyle, too. Country Club memberships are EXPENSIVE. Only exception being if you are clergy. If you are a religous leader and have a sponser, most country clubs will let you in cheap. However, you still must afford the house. These folks merely want to be able to drive down costs in any way they can, others be damned. They many times do not see the results of what they do because they live very isolated lives. Plus, if they do not drive down costs, they can be replaced by someone more cut throat. In my 20s, I used to work in one of these places for a stint. They have a very strange and closed culture. For instance, did you know men and women are segregated and only allowed together in common areas? It is to keep a trophy wife isolated and only around other matrons if she is having relationship problems to keep her from landing another wealthy man at the golf course bar. Yeah, she probably has her own Lexus and is free to leave out of the community, but rich men that can put someone up in a 750k to 2M house that are not married are actually pretty rare outside that closed world.

Mainstream Potestant Christian church organizations and whoever tows the line is another faction. The ultimate hidden goal of this is Theocracy. Basically rule by church leaders. Barring that unlikely outcome, at least encouraging opinion and legistlation towards enforcing whatever morals they want while producing an atmosphere condusive to membership expansion which brings in tithes, possibly powerful converts, and influence. Of course, just like the comon conservative, an ability to keep a high respect, low physical work position in life available!

The last faction of the Republicans are Libertarians and non-red Anarchists. Mostly, these guys are more intellegent artists, writers, internet content writers, philosophers, and the disillusioned. They see things a bit differently and see all these groups right and left as using political weapons to slam other groups and keep positions. They want a pie in the sky otion where "If it harms none, do as you wilt" thing. However, this group never gets traction due to the fact that the nature of this system is to keep others in power at the expense of others. If others could do as they please - no one would willingly do things like serve fast food, landscape some dude's house, or work in a nursing home wiping some relative's butt for peanuts. The other factions must maintain control and motivation to keep the wine and nice places up for cheap labor. If the landlord is going to throw you out, most folks will do ANYTHING, even embarrasing humiliting work just to keep afloat, or what society defines as keeping afloat.

SMAX is a VERY strong lesson. Society, just like the city screen in SMAX cannot exist off of all TALENTS. You must have workers. DRONES are when there are not enough TALENT spots open. POLICE is the private army to control and extermitate the drones that get too uppity. One guy said, "I can pay one half the working class to kill the other half." The cops hang out in my area loaded with drones. They are not cruising English Turn randomly stopping people.

Long rant, but it is appropriate. SMAX did play a minor role in my politics!
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 02, 2012, 07:40:14 PM
I'm elbows-deep in smilies, and need time to digest this before I respond.  Be back soon.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 02, 2012, 10:28:33 PM
No worries, BU.

I usually try to keep politics and gaming separate. When I heard "bicycle", I assumed I was talking with fellow anarchists and disobeyed my own rules. My bad and ignorance. This is a large internet :)

I also should have obeyed unwritten forum formatting guidelines and kept my reply to under one paragragh. Some other forums, I would be blasted, and not in a nice way. I am not on a wiki or collaboration project.

Do not worry about having to have a debit card. It tracks you but IS a tiny bit safer than cash. My only deal is many of these cards have hidden fees where if you do not keep track, you go negative and the financial institutions can "steal" from you through excessive fees. Troubling, is many companies are forgoing paychecks to issue debit cards with horrible hidden fees they split with the company. Check Global Cash Card some time:)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 12:05:17 AM
All the information they were asking for was my problem with the debit card.  I don't have a large footprint for the system/bosses to track, and I loathe occasions that it gets a little larger.

I know most people can't handle it, but I myself LOVE kicking around politics/religion conversationally.  I do believe I respect you enough to want to get into it.  (Much as I like arguing that stuff, I haveta be selective, not least because most people are dumb and have dumb opinions.)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 03, 2012, 12:43:44 AM
Well, it is like this:

There are actually forums with folks that (kinda) have some of my political views. I can post there if I wish. Problem you run into is that if you agree it is like you are a broken record. If you do not, I have seen people DDoS wikis and forums, vandalize things, needless banhammering, etc. All over silly stuff. There are also, particularly in some forum communities that are religous and political, even more drama than the wargamer nerds can imagine! It would make some of ya'lls old forum drama look petty. I lurk, and avoid. Always keeping handles separate those places, if it is even worth gracing with my words.

This one (Green1) actually did edit/contribute to an anarchist web project that was mentioned in mainstream books and projects. It also is on many gamer sites as early as 2004. Not that I worry. The only things I wrote about was urban survival stuff and try to fact check, edit, and delete retarded edits or edits that did not follow like 5 basic rules. Imagine being in that position with folks that are homeless, punks, bohemians, liberals, btards/anon wannabees, and libertarian bussinessmen. Tough crowd. Not ashamed of it. I had a great time. I thought we wrote quality stuff. As for me, meh... I just want to game.

However, my personal rule does not rule out sharing what I know even if tempered by my slightly anarchist leanings. I love to dispel, as Penn and Teller like to call BS!

But the gaming forum is not as much a place. The only manifesto I should have to write is an AAR! LoL.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 01:15:37 AM
That's one of the reasons I'm selctive about who I'll discuss deep stuff with.  In not-quite-four-years, even among a superior crowd, I've tripped over people who only seem to be able to handle it.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 03, 2012, 02:08:16 AM
That's one of the reasons I'm selctive about who I'll discuss deep stuff with.  In not-quite-four-years, even among a superior crowd, I've tripped over people who only seem to be able to handle it.

Particularly over forums and collaborations! Plus, folks who will outright go on the attack! I have had this personally happen on both the internet and in person. All over what I consider pettyness.

But... these cards. Here is what I know that the "system" does not tell you.

1. Yeah, they can track whenever you use the card, what phone number you activate it from, etc. However, it is like the 1960's sci fi novel Stainless Steel Rat when he talked about mass monitoring and control. Tons of information is boring to sort through all the time. Only if certain flags are brought up will it be an issue. Even then, it's only big players or if folks are trying to place you somewhere. As important and paranoid as some folks like to believe they are, no one cares that they bought a pack of smokes and a beer Thursday at 3 AM at the Quickie Mart. It is only when you are doing something whatever establishment is in control dislikes and they are looking at you, it matters. Though, if you dump a dead body off, I would not use the card near a place you dumped the body! But think this, even if your employer could somehow find out you went to the quickie mart at 3 AM, for thousands of employees, thats like Stainless Steel said... too much info for a person to sort. (info and employers and landlords is a separate rant)

2. Information. Info is worth something. You betcha if you got a prepaid they are going to assume you have someone chasing after you for money. They are going sell this to agencies that pay that company for database access. Also, it is completely legal for companies to share information if they are under the same holding company's umbrella. You do know the Big Three databases are going to get it. 

3. Fees. Most prepaids, you can not get the change (last 99 cents, sometimes dollar) off the card. Multiply that by a million cards. Also, fees for per transaction, NSF, etc. See, corporations do not make much off the little guy who just keeps 100 USD or maybe 500 USD. So, they secretly charge. They will not do that to the guy sitting in the bank with 1M in there. There have been tales of dudes withdrawing 1M because of a 1 USD fee! Dangerous because the bank makes money lending out more money than is out in the economy. The other is fees to the millions of other of poor saps.

4. Plastic Cards are a religion. The power goes down, folks stop accepting it, folks feel it is worthless this can be made worthless regardless of what number shows. Just like all currencies are a religion. They can revoke any plastic card at any time, too. Ask the folks who bought Blockbuster prepaid gift cards a few back.


TL,DR:
Its another form of currency with it's own resellers. Do use it to purchase gas where you dumped a dead body or supplies for your massive pot farm or cocain distribution warehouse. It can be made worthless under certain conditions. It's a scam to make money for bankers - unless you are one of them.

BUT.. at least thieves would need a pin or ID (sometimes) to use it. Well, at least the thieves not wearing suits and ties behind the desk you got it from :D
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 02:26:04 AM
Well, the economics of plastic is a different subject.  This is a check card basically.  It just means I got a little money in the bank.  (The man don't know about the 9,000 I got with Bank of Mom, but then, I don't spend that money.)  Believe me, I'm a practicing miser, and it took some doing to get me to use plastic at all, but it's not like giving your money away to the credit card company, the way credit does.  The bank hasn't been gouging me with secret charges, and won't ever for two months in a row.

I've only had one falling out over an online collaboration, and that wasn't so major we stopped speaking or became bitter foes...
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 03, 2012, 02:33:22 AM
Well, the economics of plastic is a different subject.  This is a check card basically.  It just means I got a little money in the bank.  (The man don't know about the 9,000 I got with Bank of Mom, but then, I don't spend that money.)  Believe me, I'm a practicing miser, and it took some doing to get me to use plastic at all, but it's not like giving your money away to the credit card company, the way credit does.  The bank hasn't been gouging me with secret charges, and won't ever for two months in a row.

I've only had one falling out over an online collaboration, and that wasn't so major we stopped speaking or became bitter foes...

If it is a bank card not prepaid, there is something else I did not go over. Many of these banks hope you lose track of your balance if you are a typical wage slave living check to check. In fact, this is the reason they do not give you your balance unless you ask or go online. You go over, they DO NOT stop the card. They charge you up to 30 USD each time. One time, I know some one who bought a 2 dollar bag of chips one place, a 5 dollar pack of smokes another, then a beer or two. Ended up costing him 60-70 bucks for 10 dollars in items! Some or worse and charge PER DAY fees if you go over to stop those who want to avoid using the bank.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 02:50:17 AM
Again, practicing. miser.

That ain't never gonna be a problem.  Most people in this country can't keep a nickle in their pocket to save their lives, but I can.  That $9,000 is left from a $10,000 inheritance a bit over 9 1/2 years ago. 

Also, the bank is a Credit Union, and I think they're not very predatory.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 03, 2012, 03:01:48 AM
Again, practicing. miser.

That ain't never gonna be a problem.  Most people in this country can't keep a nickle in their pocket to save their lives, but I can.  That $9,000 is left from a $10,000 inheritance a bit over 9 1/2 years ago. 

Also, the bank is a Credit Union, and I think they're not very predatory.

Awesome! CUs are not nearly as bad. You do not have so much an account as have a "membership". Still, I am glad the subject of cards I got to touch on. A lot of folks do get screwed. I want the info out there, not on a document in very small print.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 03:11:26 AM
This is not something I can talk to people about.  I try sometimes IRL, believe me, but there's no telling most people how to hold onto their duccies.  I mean, a good 80% of everyone is just plain stupid about money.  Smart people are, almost as often, and I don't waste time trying to explain it to the stupid ones at all. 

It's an impulse control issue as much as anything. 

We are in the rear-end of a golden age, watching morons pee it all away.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 03, 2012, 04:04:32 PM
Many folks have impluse control issues. I can say that in the past, I was like that, too.

Hell, I still waste money on expensive energy drinks. At least I do not go to the pub a lot like I did in my 20s and 30s. I think back and remembered spending 3 to 5 USD plus great tip per drink so some dude would not talk crap about me. I could have gone to the store and gotten a cheap six pack for that. Better off, do some study and get equipment and brew my own! Yeah, I did meet some people. But, it was very superficial and I will dare say I did not gain any real long term friends there. Did get laid a few times. Nowadays, it is boring and I can not stand it. Nor can I stand the people that still go those places.

The money thing, at least for me, is a thousand little things. I do not think I am alone from watching folks. It is not the big things. It is a manic mode folks get into when they get paid good after being broke. For a day or two... just that day or two.. do what they want. Ah.. a beer. To hell with cooking the chicken and rice, get expensive Chinese Buffet! At least until the bill collectors swoop in and take everything else. It is convienience over price.

Even 9k would only last about 6 months to 8 months if someone was not careful. Many folks less. Impressive you kept it. I know folks who would have bought an Alienware laptop that would be a paperwieght in 5 years, a bigscreen, and gotten in debt in a car for that.

Do not worry about the stupid folks. Some may wake up eventually, but maybe they have some world view they are on a kick with and do not care. The others, though, even just one... it's worth it. Just be careful of advice to folks that do not want to hear.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
I bought a bottom-of-the-line computer.  It's a paperweight for a little over a year now, alright, but I got 7 years for $550, and only upgraded to my current rig because it was a gift.


Wisdom with handling money begins with nickle-and-dimeing almost everything in your universe.  You go cheap on the small things, a million of them, so you have the cash on hand for the big things, like cancer, or a house.

Food comes from the grocery store, and you cook it at home.  McDonalds is a luxury you shouldn't do more than once a week or so if you've got some cash flow going - a real restaurant should be something of a special occasion.  It goes on from there.  My dad practiced this philosophy, and just plain GAVE both my siblings HOUSES before he died.  Now, I don't have to work for money as long as I'm content being a hermit who takes care of his mother and doesn't get out much or indulge in any vices beyond smoking.  The last time I was working steady was Renaissance Fairs 94-02, and the money there sucked pretty hard.

You work out a pretty strict idea of what's a luxury and what isn't, impose some self-discipline, make sure you're always spending a little less than you have coming in -this has a profound effect on what counts as a luxury-, pay your bills on time to avoid late fees that will beggar you, and you should be set.

It's that simple in tha basic principles - and most people can't do it to save their lives.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 03, 2012, 04:53:12 PM
Yeah... the money on cons and ren fairs was never very good. With the exception of the heavy hitters they have been in steady decline for the last decade. Hey, I did get paid one time for DMing 3rd edition DnD at a convention in Biloxi...lol. Two 20s to rub together. Cost me more to get there and I had to run games damn near the whole time there. Could not really enjoy myself, either. Sad, too. I would LOVE to make a living doing cool things.

Unfortunately, no one is going to just up and give me a house. I think about all the rent at my age and grimace in disgust. Now, you move a lot and have a travel job I can see renting. But, really. Why should I work my butt off so some landlord can sit on thier ass? Then.. the kicker.. some employer decides I am not cool anymore and then I must beg for work. Then, after one month, the landlord tosses me out while having crack head minions swooping like vultures over any stuff I may havehad to leave?

Being a hermit... not going to happen where I have chosen to live. The atmosphere of where I live is a very different world than most places in the American Empire. Everybody talks, everybody is social even on the street and everybody is in the open and bikes. So I guess I won't have that part.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 05:32:47 PM
Well, hermit isn't for everyone; I just ain't quite right ;nutz;, and have kinda given up on people and the way they make me want to rip their heads off constantly.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 05, 2012, 02:11:01 AM
Well, hermit isn't for everyone; I just ain't quite right ;nutz;, and have kinda given up on people and the way they make me want to rip their heads off constantly.

I view it like this.

I like people in general. But, there is something that makes some folks total jerks when they have power over you. Not all, but many. No person can be a jerk to everyone. A person who is a jerk to everyone is unemployed, divorced, or in jail or isolated fairly quickly. Most jerks are selective about who to be a jerk to. It is unrealistic to be a jerk to everyone. That is, unless you are just fabulously rich. Even then, they need to PAY someone who is not a jerk to keep the cash coming in.

Object is, to be on equal level and have common ground with others. It is the most healthy situation.

---of course, in practice it does not always work that way.

My problem is not with other people. It is when you must deal with people from a position in which the benefits only go one way. When instead of getting better and growing together, only the growth and getting better of one party is important.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 05, 2012, 02:19:57 AM
Well, that's such a complex issue of human interaction that  ;...

But I've brought out the worst in too many people, and I don't particularly care to give them more chances to treat me badly.

At least on the web, no one can get the bad idea of trying to hit me, and nothing's at stake.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 05, 2012, 03:03:22 AM
Well, that's such a complex issue of human interaction that  ;...

But I've brought out the worst in too many people, and I don't particularly care to give them more chances to treat me badly.

At least on the web, no one can get the bad idea of trying to hit me, and nothing's at stake.

Violence is actually not the worst thing someone can do. In fact, unless it is a complete power situation where things like that are accepted or someone desperate thinks you look touristy and can knock you upside the head real quick and run it screws them more than helps. But, regardless of what media says, that's rare. At least what I have seen.

 Even while on urban stealth camp runs.

(Which BTW, I am tempted to do some more of. Rent is one of those "jerk" relationships I refer to. Last time, I set up a tent outside a major US city in a patch of woods, worked, and paid off 2000 USD in student loans. I did so for 5 months undetected.)
 
edit: part of a sentence got chopped off.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on October 19, 2012, 06:39:05 AM
While I agree that bicycling and relying on self powered travel is healthy, in some places it isn't practical. I live in a rural area and during the winter we receive 100 CM to 130-45 CM of Snow, and temperatures can well go below -30 Celsius, with windchill, dipping into -40's. I do take advantage of walking and bicycling when I can, and when I don't need to travel I don't do it as much anyways, but when it is winter and I need to pick up provisions, you need a vehicle.

If anything, I think public transportation, like trains, should be improved more. They were very prominent back when I was younger, but after lots of reforms and change of political systems, my nation has changed it's agenda in terms of public services. It makes me a little sad sometimes.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 19, 2012, 11:11:20 PM
Welcome to the forums, Jarl!

Yeah, I could see issues with doing that in extreme cold with snow storms. I have heard stories of folks that did it, but most were in temperate climates.

I have lived in areas with poor public transportation. Most of the time it is poor because a variety of homeowners have suburb houses and cars. They do not want to increase the taxes just becuase someone in an apartment has to bum rides 10 miles to get to where everyoe works.

Kind of selfish. They want someone to flip burgers for them or clean thier house, but lord forbid the heathens have a way to get out there to do it for them! "They should have a car!". Of course, try paying a car AND rent off of a wage slave salary. Even if you can, that car breaks down, you can be 10 colors of screwed.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 19, 2012, 11:30:40 PM
Green, Jarl is an actual communist.  You're preaching to the choir. :D

P.S. Amen!  Complete agreement.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on October 20, 2012, 12:45:54 AM
A communist that served on behalf of the ideal and put his life in danger for it at that. That was years ago though.

While I am a communist in my spirit, I realize that society can't be forced upon with ideals. Radical change without smooth transition leads to bloodshed and chaos. Change needs to happen, but it needs to happen at a controllable pace.

And I think, while our global economic situation may degrade due to fossil fuels being problematic in distribution and acquirement, it's not so much supply is dwindling, its more so cost effective means and reaching that said supply. And due to most societies running on fossil fuels, affording a personal vehicle is going to be very expensive, even more so then now.  I can see in the future that if public transportation is not improved, and if social services don't improve overall, people are going to become restless regardless of their social background. If you can't get to point A to point B and that halves your plans, it doesn't matter whether your lower class or middle class, it will hurt you.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 20, 2012, 01:00:11 AM
Yes.  The future I see, provided the nuclear bombs never fly, is a poorer world than today - our generation, and the one before, used up far beyond our share of the fuel, and the subtitutes will be more expensive and not work as well - plus, the pollution we make now will wreck the weather.  I hope for practical fusion power - but we will still have burned the lubricants our descendants will miss very much for fuel and exhasted the most easily-reached metals and other resources.

On the plus side, we are far too rich for our own good, and it's made us soft and spoiled.  This is probably even true in your country.  Our grandchildren may be healthier and happier on their electric scooters.  Maybe the bosses won't be able to oppress them as much when everyone is poor.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on October 20, 2012, 03:47:00 AM
They'd be able to oppress them still. Always find a way. It's sort of like sore feet, it gradually builds up over time until you figure out your feet are moldy and you wonder why you haven't rinsed the old filth away. Human society is similar, a kettle. Me? I don't harbour over the future with worry, if there is going to be war, then it's inevitable and war must be fought. It may be the bloodiest war in human history yet, but if it's going to happen and may bring a great tide of change it may well be worth it. No one can determine that just yet though, and nor does anyone want to.


I think the energy of tomorrow, within our grasp, besides mass produced solar, hydroelectric or geothermal power, is also bio-fuel. Bio fuel will be very controversial and unstable for us as bio-fuel is derived from crops. Agricultural produce comprises the majority of, if not all of Earth's, mainstream diet.

And, if we get the technology to produce it, organic refineries (plants that burn rapidly producing organic life, or microbes) are possible, as well as the philosophers stone of energy, fusion power.

The question im wondering is though, since you people, of which im guessing are anywhere from your 20's to your 30's (though I know some of you are much older then that, and may be just shy of 20 or so years younger then me), how will you react to the changes? I probably won't live long enough to see significant change, or if I do it will be the tip of the iceberg. But tell me, what do you think will happen, and how would you deal with it personally?
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 20, 2012, 04:06:31 AM
I'm 47 - Green is younger, I think, but maybe not more than ten years, maybe a lot less.  He's had a lot of adventure and acquired some wisdom.

It's too hard to guess the specific shape of the future.  We live in this world of wonders all around that people don't see, but it's just not the future anyone ever predicted.  It seems pointless to overthink it.  I do think we are at the end of a golden age, though.  My country went fascist 10 years ago, and the mass insanity is so great that the collaborationist opposition currently in charge hasn't undone most of the fascism, and the fascists are not not in jail or even ashamed.  We are stupid, and we are doomed, and you can bet the US will drag the whole planet down with it as it collapses in the coming years/decades.

I don't live too close to a big city - if we dynamite the exits off the main highway to keep the refugees from Charlotte out, we might be able to struggle and survive the collapse.  I will be plowing up my front and back yard and getting water from the creek.  We have a large basement with a wood stove (and access to trees) and tools, and some supplies socked away.  We might make it.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 20, 2012, 04:41:25 AM
if we dynamite the exits off the main highway to keep the refugees from Charlotte out

Like the evil police state of Gretna did to New Orleans? That is inhuman.

But, seroiusly, I have read tons of anarchist books and sites. As much anarchists leanings I have, I do not see a world wide "sheet hitting the fan" sort of deal. Yeah, there will be localized spots. But nothing worldwide.

What I see comming is we MUST figure out our policies towards labor, prisons, drugs, education, and automation. You got to come up with some system that gives people satisfaction, yet still motivates them too without being inhuman.

Right now the lesson we are learning is that multiple currency systems do not work when you can change 20 USD into 1 USD merely by switching countries for the same labor.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 20, 2012, 04:45:22 AM
Inhuman shminyuman.  When it goes down, you city people are on your own and not taking me with you.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on October 20, 2012, 04:50:50 AM
If the bombs go flying or things collapse, I have a cellar full of wine and various alcohol, and im going to have myself some fun and maybe attempt some DIY construction. Put my old skills to use, lay some makeshift mines and barb wire, dig some pits and just wait for the oncoming storm. Maybe have a community, get walls up and people can help sustain it.

I do have my old Makarov sitting around, and a old Tokarev rifle I use for hunting, so I might last for a while until age drops my sorry bottom out the window.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 20, 2012, 04:56:49 AM
I have a sorry little pistol and a good single-shot shotgun, with a fair stock of amo for both...
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 20, 2012, 04:59:56 AM
...And you're up either very early or very late, if you're where I think you are.  I have to go to bed now, much as I hate to leave while there's someone interesting hanging around...
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 20, 2012, 05:20:57 AM
Take it from an older, wiser anarchist. The problem with explosives, things of that nature is badasses with drones and much better equiptment will eventually try to stop you. Let's not forget the mess. Big gun/blowing things up approach is useless unless you are part of some huge army or organization. It causes more harm than good. Landmines last years later killing even innocent kids playing. Molotovs in store windows really do not change people's minds. It just gets folks more pissed.

Better in a "sheet hits the fan" deal is to be invisible. Loud explosions tend to piss people off and get people looking for other people. If no one is looking, you are usually safe. Either that, or if the area is too full of evil assholes, move. Folks escape bad stuff all the time.

A firearm is okay. But, do realize a firearm has disadvantages. Some people it can get in more trouble in some jurisdictions than it can save. Your mind will be more valuable in any bad sitution. Even in chaos situations, there are those who will have authority to do to folks as they will. A gun only helps with the .01% that are actual criminals. Do not listen to propoganda.

In fact, all this doom pr0n out there. Are folks so depressed with life situations they want everything to end? Not going to happen. Even in a collapse, folks will rise to fill the void and things will continue.

Violence is not an answer.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on October 20, 2012, 06:09:56 AM
I'm aware, the mines wouldn't be near our settlement anyways. It'd be in a strategic pass or something that leads to us. Mines have a nasty tendency to shift around as well, so its always unpredictable. Horrible inventions, but during horrible times they are to be used against an enemy. My main strategy would be to hole up and fortify. And people will definitely go about trying to raid the countryside for supplies, it's been proven in other system collapses already.

My main strategy overall is deterrence. Have your region infamous and scary, people tend to avoid it.

And BUncle, it's about 9 AM where I am at, and I logged on at about 6.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Rymdolov on October 20, 2012, 10:14:27 PM
When I heard "bicycle", I assumed I was talking with fellow anarchists and disobeyed my own rules.

I'm so very, very happy that I don't live in a country where "happy to use a bicycle" is considered extreme. It's an interesting discussion, people, keep it going. I just hope we don't scare anyone away from the forum. Hopefully, most people understand that one of the advantages of forums like this one is that you can discuss and be friendly with someone whose opinions are the exact opposite of your own.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 20, 2012, 10:39:42 PM
Dunno that that's so much the case here, though.  You may not have issues with the bosses, but the rest of us do.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Rymdolov on October 20, 2012, 10:52:03 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm a drone hoping to be a Free Drone some day. Not everyone may be, though. Enjoying reasoned debate is never a problem, anyway. I was just sharing some thoughts.

 ;domai;
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 20, 2012, 10:56:27 PM
Ah.  Turns out we're all at least latent commies. :D

You're right; I wouldn't want to scare off the Republicans - just because they're wrong and their party went fascist 11 years ago, doesn't mean I don't want to meet them and make friends.  Seriously.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on October 21, 2012, 01:07:48 AM
Then again, were all on a forum of men (and women possibly?) that have or still do play Alpha Centauri, a game that has heavy philosophical idea's, with a rather complex game play and rather sci-fi atmosphere. So I doubt anyone here is of a more right wing moral conservative just by that. Add the fact most of us are either students, retiree's or men who have been working for a number of years in our professions, were probably not going to be supportive of an overall capitalist=/=exploitative system that exploits our hard work for profit that we don't get a share of as much as we should.

That and people who actually find this forum or look for it will probably be within the same parameters of what I and others have stated prior, its not like a bunch of Christian fundamentalist charity groups are going to stumble upon our forum and actually join. Or a bunch of capitalist business types that stroll into our forum.

No, they have their own interests elsewhere, which makes sense.


Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 21, 2012, 01:39:06 AM
Oh, we've got a Christian fundamentalist.  He's pretty much the nicest guy here.  You'll have seen Kilkakon around.

Never heard him talk politics, though.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on October 21, 2012, 06:44:42 AM
Hmm. This community is more diverse then I thought. Feels good to have variety.

He's probably the nicest guy around though because he doesn't bother with politics, which is commendable, given how dirty politics gets.

Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 21, 2012, 01:12:53 PM
Variety is good.  As Robert Heinlein siad, "I never learned from a man who agreed with me."
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 23, 2012, 10:43:01 PM
Variety is good.  As Robert Heinlein siad, "I never learned from a man who agreed with me."

I think the Notebooks of Lazarus Long should be bound in vellum like a Bible. RH is the bomb. Still got to read his very last book.

But yeah, 4x draws from a lot of different backgrounds and beliefs.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 23, 2012, 11:33:18 PM
You mean To Sail Beyond the Sunset?  How appropriate a title for a last novel is that?


RAH was a fringe political crank and a disgusting pervert, and crammed both down our throats increasingly in his old age. 

He really had his moments, though.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on October 23, 2012, 11:49:37 PM
You mean To Sail Beyond the Sunset?  How appropriate a title for a last novel is that?


RAH was a fringe political crank and a disgusting pervert, and crammed both down our throats increasingly in his old age. 

He really had his moments, though.

Hopefully tamer than Time Enough for Love or The Cat Who Walks Through Walls. Hey, I am all for RAH and his anarchist leanings. But his version of polygamy/ line marriages is bad. If you are a man of means, you had 4-5 wives, maybe even some young enough to be grandkids. If not, you are not invited to the party. Then again, if a bunch of folks lived 400 + years looking like a 30 year old, I do agree the institution of marriage would change. Other than that, his crackpot politics seem fine to me. But, I might be a crackpot, too.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 24, 2012, 12:01:43 AM
Libertarian ideas and Ideals are exactly like what I said about communism - makes sense on paper, hopelessly naive about human nature and completely unworkable in practice.  And unlike communism, nothing admirable about the base assumptions and motivational set.

And think about what you're saying, if you know the man's body of work as you seem to.  The line marriages, something that goes back to The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, have virtually nothing to do with the perversion I was talking about.  You can't possibly have that huge a blind spot - he was as bad as John Norman and the Gor books, only incest instead of bondage and domination.  Yes Bob; that turns you on.  We get it.  Shut up about your personal kinks, please.  I'd like to enjoy your excellent work without wading through quite so much filth.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on October 26, 2012, 02:23:22 AM
Over the years I found anyone taking ideals to the level of idealism or strictly adhering to them to the point of dogma to be hopeless and destructive. I am a communist, and will be until the day I die, but I took the ideal because of personal motivations and beliefs on how to live.

- makes sense on paper, hopelessly naive about human nature and completely unworkable in practice. 

I find it applies to nearly all ideals when you think of it. Nearly every single ideal taken to an extreme, or even attempted to broached has not boded well either initially or in the longterm. Democracy has turned into a representative pie slicing contest with corporate sponsorships and media coverage, Communism and related socialist ideals have been subverted into totalitarian systems, im not even approaching Fascism, and Capitalism has rendered many nations little more then virtual slavery states feeding ultra consumerism.

Is it something I get depressed of? No. But its why I think idealism is flawed in within itself, regardless of the ideal. For me, I am communist and believe the system would be beneficial in operation, but the problem is is trying to achieve that state of operation, and then maintaining it. So instead I chose to embrace it with personal lifestyle and attitude then trying to change a whole system.


I find RAH seriously degraded as time and his age progressed, he started losing grip. And it was evident in his writings as I found. I think lots of philosophers become depressed or crackpot insane after a given period of time (or start out that way to begin with) because they just become grained down.  Even men like Socrates slowly degraded I noticed, as he started to become angrier with time, even before the city state of Athens started to chin him and force him to kill himself.

Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 02, 2012, 06:47:20 PM
Jarl, please educate the American...

Quote
Insight: Putin's Russia - more fragile than it looks
By Michael Stott | Reuters – 7 hrs ago.. .


MOSCOW (Reuters) - When Vladimir Putin celebrated his 60th birthday last month, a group of patriotic mountaineers unfurled a portrait of the Russian leader on a 4,150-metre mountain peak.
 
Hailing him as a guarantor of happiness and stability, the climbers' leader explained: "We have stuck Putin's portrait on a rock wall we see as unbreakable and eternal as Putin".
 
But as Putin nears the end of his 13th year ruling this vast country, Russians feel increasingly unhappy and worries over long-term political and economic stability are growing.
 
Russia is exporting three things in great quantity, says a leading Moscow banker: natural resources, capital and people.
 
Only the first could be regarded as healthy and sustainable; the other two imply that oligarchs and ordinary citizens alike are turning their back on Putin's Russia.
 
Almost a third of city-dwellers would like to emigrate from Russia, according to a poll in September. Among young people the proportion rose to nearly half. The most favored destinations were Europe, the United States, Australia and New Zealand.
 
The reasons for this exodus of talent and money? A growing sense among educated Russians that their country is heading in the wrong direction, and that no change is likely.
 
It all began very differently. Putin replaced Boris Yeltsin in the Kremlin on December 31, 1999. His early years generated hope as the chaos of the Yeltsin era was replaced by order, the economy grew strongly - Russia's GDP has grown nearly 10-fold under Putin - and a consumer boom created a new middle class.
 
A group of reform-minded ministers led by Alexei Kudrin at Finance and German Gref at Economy raised hopes of real change to increase private investment, modernize industry and infrastructure and reduce dependence on raw material exports.
 
Fast forward to 2012. Putin began a fresh six-year presidential term this March, with his supporters calling for him to stay in power until a constitutional term limit of 2024 - by which time the former KGB spy would have ruled longer than any Kremlin leader since Stalin.
 
Outwardly Putin's reform agenda continues. The president and his government repeat the mantra of modernization - a concept beloved of tsars for centuries.
 
Putin told Russia's main economic forum this summer that his government would implement a program of major transformation to build a new economy, create or modernize 25 million jobs and become an exporter of innovative goods and services.
 
But the facts on the ground point in a different direction.
 
POLITICAL THAW REVERSED
 
A brief and shallow political thaw under Dmitry Medvedev's 2008-12 presidency (in which Putin continued to wield ultimate power from the prime minister's office) is being reversed.
 
Opposition leaders have been arrested on charges which human rights organizations say are trumped-up, new controls have been clamped on the Internet and a Medvedev repeal of slander laws has been reversed.
 
Gref and Kudrin are both long gone from the government and unconfirmed rumors swirl in Moscow that Medvedev himself will be fired by Putin before the end of the year.
 
Growth presses on but at the same time Moscow has the world's biggest population of billionaires, corruption is rampant and the country's huge wealth is very unevenly spread.
 
Kudrin helped to fund a startling study from the Centre of Strategic Research think-tank, published last week. It concluded from interviews with focus groups in Moscow and regional cities that Russians saw little chance of changing their "predatory" ruling elite through the ballot box.
 
Most thought a revolution was possible and even desirable.
 
Medvedev cuts an increasingly lonely figure in Moscow, his credibility with voters gone after stepping aside without a murmur to make way for Putin's return to the Kremlin this year. His supporters privately despair of any chance for real change in an economy that looks increasingly Kremlin-controlled.
 
One recent mega-deal shows the trend. Last month, state-controlled oil giant Rosneft said it would take over the number three oil producer, TNK-BP. Rosneft will buy out the current owners - four Soviet-born oligarchs and Britain's BP - to create the world's biggest publicly listed oil company.
 
At a time when Russian oil production is falling and large-scale investment is badly needed to open up new fields, the Kremlin is instead spending $55 billion in cash and shares to acquire control of a major oil company from the private sector.
 
As the government splurges, Russia's oligarchs are shifting more money abroad because of the poor investment climate. Deputy Economy Minister Andrei Klepach estimates that $50-60 billion of private capital will flow out of Russia this year. Moscow bank Uralsib predicts the figure could hit $80 billion.
 
"MIXED FEELINGS"
 
Putin told a group of visiting academics and journalists last week over dinner at his residence that he had "mixed feelings" about the Rosneft takeover of TNK-BP because it increased state participation in the economy.
 
Russia-watchers, however, had little doubt that the takeover was scripted inside the Kremlin. Rosneft is run by Igor Sechin, a long-time close Putin ally and Kremlin hard-liner who has always favored extending state control over key assets.
 
The two-hour, seven-course dinner with the Valdai Group of Russia experts was held at Putin's Novo-Ogaryovo residence in an exclusive wooded suburb outside Moscow.
 
The occasion was billed as a chance to gain insight into the latest Kremlin thinking and learn Putin's ideas for his new term. But at dinner, the Kremlin chief surprised some attendees with an uncharacteristically flat performance, devoid of the quips and bravado for which he is renowned and lacking in new ideas.
 
Corruption is one of the biggest problems in Russia for ordinary citizens, businessmen and foreign investors. The country has slid to 143rd place out of 182 on Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index, tied with Nigeria.
 
Yet Putin shrugged off a question about corruption with a tired sigh, asking his audience what they expected him to say that was new about such a perennial topic.
 
Intimations of Putin's mortality have surfaced. The president's press secretary last week denied a Reuters report that the Kremlin leader needed surgery to correct a back injury, then days later squelched fresh rumors about Putin's health, saying he was working from home to avoid traffic congestion.
 
Such issues are no minor matter in a country where so much power is concentrated in the hands of one man, a man with no visible successor.
 
President Barack Obama memorably described Putin before their first meeting in 2009 as a leader with one foot stuck in the Soviet past, and signs of a drift backwards are visible in Moscow.
 
The Kremlin administration is now headed by 59-year-old former KGB spy Sergei Ivanov, who likes to describe himself as "rather conservative on national security but quite liberal on economics". Ivanov previously headed the Defence Ministry and the military-industrial complex.
 
ZASTOY AND PUTIN
 
On the lips of many educated Muscovites today is the word "zastoy" (stagnation) - an epithet which came to define the lackluster latter years of Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev in the 1970s and early 1980s, but is now increasingly used of Putin.
 
Despite years of government promises, Russia has yet to build a modern pensions saving system, improve regulation to create a viable financial market trading centre to compete with Dubai or invest in its crumbling infrastructure.
 
Already weighed down by the cost of hefty public sector pay rises ahead of this year's presidential election, the Russian government's latest budget envisages spending $620 billion by 2020 re-equipping the country's military, while cutting spending on infrastructure and education.
 
These priorities have upset business leaders, who are desperate for improvements to the creaking road network.
 
And despite repeated Putin's pledges to cut the economy's dependence on oil and gas exports, the oil price required by the Kremlin to make its budget sums add up has more than doubled over the pasts five years to $110.
 
In foreign policy, Medvedev's much-vaunted plan to reset relations with the United States on a more constructive track has stalled. Instead Moscow has confronted the West over Syria and given priority to pursuing a free trade area with former Soviet neighbors Belarus and Kazakhstan.
 
Alexei Pushkov, chairman of the Duma's Foreign Affairs Committee, says Russia wants to be an "independent centre of attraction" for nations in its neighborhood and adds:
 
"The West made a major mistake wanting Russia to be like the West - Russia wants to be Russia".
 
PUNISHING [ladyparts, sissy] RIOT
 
One of the clearest signs of divergence between Russia and the West is the treatment of [ladyparts, sissy] Riot - a punk feminist band who staged a protest song in Moscow's main cathedral this year imploring the Virgin Mary to rid Russia of Putin.
 
Three of its members were jailed for two years - one later released on a suspended sentence - for "hooliganism motivated by religious hatred".
 
Putin said the women had "got what they deserved" because their performance amounted to a vulgar act of group sex and threatened the moral foundations of Russia. Western governments and human rights groups were outraged at what they saw as a grossly disproportionate punishment.
 
Yet the harsh treatment meted out to [ladyparts, sissy] Riot may signify something deeper than moral indignation.
 
Many analysts see the jail terms as a sign of something deeper - Kremlin insecurity amid rising popular discontent.
 
While the street protests which swept Moscow last winter have now abated, political analysts say the urban, educated population is increasingly unhappy with Putin's leadership.
 
Far from the grandeur of Putin's Novo-Ogaryovo residence, its wrought-iron gates topped with the double-headed Russian eagle, to the north of Moscow lies the featureless dormitory town of Krasnogorsk.
 
Inside a small, noisy McDonald's restaurant there, a diminutive 30-year-old woman energetically explained her prediction for Russia's future under Putin, as a snowstorm swirled outside.
 
"The system itself is crumbling," said Yekaterina Samutsevich, the released [ladyparts, sissy] Riot member. "It's becoming more repressive ... those in power have very strong fears and their behavior is more and more wild. We could end with a total collapse like the Soviet Union."
 
Whether the vision of the strong, stable, great power projected by Putin or the apocalyptic prediction of the young punk rocker come to pass remains to be seen.
 
But in the meantime Russia's people and its business elite are voting with their feet and their wallets. And Putin is not winning.
http://news.yahoo.com/insight-putins-russia-more-fragile-looks-060214902.html (http://news.yahoo.com/insight-putins-russia-more-fragile-looks-060214902.html)

Nothing here is new as far as Putin looking like a Commisar in a mask - or a new Tszar.  He's Cheney or Brezhnev with charisma, but the best that could be said of him is that unlike Yeltzin, he's competent, and unlike some of the Party Chairmen who preceeded him, not a big mass murderer.  Still not the right guy to be in charge of a just society, and never going to stand for justice or fairness, just power.

Set me straight if I'm reading the situation wrong.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 05, 2012, 09:18:47 PM
Quote
Insight: Hunger strikes in industrial Russia test loyalty to Putin
By Alissa de Carbonnel | Reuters – 15 hrs ago.. .


VERKHNYAYA SINYACHIKHA, Russia (Reuters) - Factory smokestacks tower over weathered wooden houses in this provincial Russian town, part of the industrial heartland that helped propel Vladimir Putin into the presidency.
 
Towns like Verkhnyaya Sinyachikha in the vast metals and manufacturing province of Sverdlovsk in the Ural Mountains, some 2,000 km (1,240 miles) east of Moscow, have long been regarded as the backbone of support for the former KGB spy.
 
But that loyalty has been tested by hunger strikes over unpaid wages in at least three factories in Sverdlovsk this year that have prompted authorities to step in to rescue the biggest employers.
 
The government subsidies recall generous industry bailouts that stemmed social unrest during the 2008-09 global economic crisis and signal Kremlin concern that support from working-class Russians, long inured to quietly shouldering hardships, could be at risk nearly 13 years after Putin rose to power.
 
"The first time he ran, we voted for him. The second too, but this time we didn't," said Igor Ilyukhin, 41, one of 47 steel mill workers who fasted for 11 days for unpaid wages, camping on the rotten planks of an abandoned building near the shuttered gates of their bankrupt employer.
 
It is not clear how widespread such rumblings of working-class discontent with Putin are. He won nearly two-thirds of votes handing him a third presidential term in May and told a TV interviewer before his 60th birthday last month that "the overwhelming majority of people still support me."
 
During his election campaign, Putin depicted blue-collar workers as the "real Russia" and pitted them against the mainly middle-class protesters who have staged big rallies against him in Moscow and were referred to by him as "chattering monkeys".
 
But the hunger strike in which Ilyukhin took part was the fourth this year by former workers of the plant that until recently employed 400 people in Verkhnyaya Sinyachikha, a town of 9,800 people 145 km (90 miles) from the regional capital Yekaterinburg.
 
Hunger strikes have also struck a truck-manufacturing plant and a smelter owned by Russia's largest aluminium producer RUSAL in two separate factory towns in the Urals region.
 
Another strike is threatened in the region by 98 workers of a small-parts manufacturer who have given their bankrupt employer until November 6 to pay the wages they are owed.
 
"Maybe we're tired of how we're living," Ilyukhin said.
 
A WAY TO GET PAID
 
The workers, hunched around a smoky campfire in padded state-issue overalls, said that striking was the only way to get paid, and that it was a safe bet the government would step in to ensure they were when they did strike.
 
"We strike and they pay us a bit. We strike again and they pay us a bit more. We don't know where the money comes from," said Andrei Zhukov, taking a pragmatic view of what may seem like a desperate tactic.
 
Zhukov, one of the organizers, said it was easy to gather a list of willing strikers by word of mouth - despite this being the fourth yet by former workers - and register the protest with the town hall.
 
A visit by police to the homes of two participants did little to dissuade them from striking.
 
"We're used to being paid late but we want what we are owed, nothing more," he said. For Zhukov, that meant 20,000 roubles($639) severance pay and back wages, though many who took part in the strike that left about half the group in hospital asked for much less. Monthly pay at the plant was about 9,000 roubles.
 
"For us, this is real money," Zhukov said.
 
Industry leaders and economists warn that the government's hands-on approach to resolving crises, including at privately-owned factories like that in Verkhnyaya Sinyachikha, is stalling reforms.
 
The tactic is short-sighted and increases the country's problems, they say, if there is a drop in the price of oil - the main driver of Russia's budgetary largess.
 
"The state is now taking ever more facilities, industries, entire sectors under its wing," metals tycoon Vladimir Potanin, Russia's fourth richest man, told Reuters in September.
 
"As long as the government has strength, it keeps them ticking over, then at some point - bam - it's a problem," he said. "Efficiency is not growing and there is no competition."
 
'WE ARE FOR STABILITY'
 
The hunger strikes in Sverdlovsk, a region that was once the power base of late President Boris Yeltsin, hark back to the economic mayhem that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 and, with it, Communist central planning.
 
In the decade that followed, workers went unpaid for long spells and some lived off produce from their kitchen gardens.
 
"In the 1990s, everything was a mess," said Igor Kholmanskikh, a former tank factory foreman whom Putin appointed as his envoy to the Urals region this year.
 
A man of few words, the ruddy-faced 43-year-old offered during a television call-in show with Putin last December to travel to Moscow with "the boys" and wipe the streets clear of protesters.
 
"He is our 'Plumber Joe'," Kholmanskikh's spokesman said, drawing a parallel with the U.S. Republican party's championing of an American who questioned then-presidential candidate Barack Obama on tax policy during his 2008 campaign.
 
Clenching his broad hands and looking ill at ease with his sudden elevation from factory floor to the opulent, marble-lined halls of his seat of power in the region, Kholmanskikh stuck closely to the Kremlin's party line to woo blue-collar support.
 
Putin is owed gratitude for presiding over an oil-fuelled economic boom in his first two terms from 2000 until 2008, Kholmanskikh said, warning that protests in Moscow could throw Russia back to the turmoil of the 1990s.
 
"Life has changed, people now have work and social safety nets and life's got better," he said. "Obviously, this is due to Vladimir Putin becoming the country's leader. That is why one of our first campaign slogans was: 'We are for Stability!'"
 
Putin's government is now working to meet that pledge, turning to a host of stopgap measures to keep doors open at factories that have been mismanaged or are simply unprofitable.
 
When more than 85 workers at truck-maker AMUR held a second hunger strike in Novouralsk demanding nearly a year's worth of back salaries in September, local authorities ordered state-owned tank-maker Uralvagonzavod to hand over part of its orders.
 
Regional opposition deputies say the intervention - before mayoral elections in the region on October 14 - was little more than a move to plug the gap at the aged plant burdened by 4.5 billion roubles in debt, 28 million of which is wage arrears.
 
In another industrial town where three city council members joined hunger strikers, Putin ordered electricity tariffs lowered by 30 percent for the Bogoslovsky aluminium plant (BAZ), owned by RUSAL, in the town of Krasnoturinsk.
 
"Take any of our enterprises - they all rely on support," Potanin said. "The government encourages us to pass the hat."
 
CALLS FOR NEW POLICY
 
Built in 1770, the steel mill in Verkhnyaya Sinyachikha is a cornerstone of this factory town. A snow-dusted statue of Soviet state founder Vladimir Lenin stands at its gate and until recently it was still the second largest employer.
 
Like hundreds of other remote factory towns scattered from Russia's far north to eastern Siberia - where the closure of a single plant could throw a whole population out of work - it has seen little investment and struggled to stay profitable since the end of Soviet economic planning.
 
"They (industry owners) have no clear plan or understanding of development, they pass on the weight of incompetence onto the government's shoulders," Sverdlovsk regional governor Yevgeny Kuyvashev said at a televised government meeting last month.
 
He called for a new policy aimed at helping industry to modernize to remain competitive.
 
In a sign of possible trouble to come, the Kremlin's chief federal inspector in the Sverdlovsk region said last month some 50 more enterprises were on the verge of bankruptcy.
 
The town of Rezh may be the next hot spot, if workers are not paid before the November 6 deadline they have set.
 
"We need to anticipate the fires, not put them out when they are already burning," said Anton Danilov-Danilyan, a former Kremlin advisor. "But in some cases, the social cost of closing a plant is more significant to the state than the cost of maintaining the factory."
 
DIVIDED RUSSIA
 
The Kremlin's firefighting style of economic management has set Putin up as a champion of the working man - an image he has cultivated by publicly dragging wealthy businessmen over the coals when they face problems at their plants.
 
Such performances serve as a counterweight to accusations by critics of cronyism and anger simmering over the widening gap between Russia's rich and poor.
 
Putin's appointment of Kholmanskikh, dismissed by critics as a Kremlin puppet, has gone down well in his own province.
 
"If he is a man of the people, then he is better qualified than any official who ... learned from his businessman father how to take bribes," said Dmitry Fomenkov, 26, a construction worker in Yekaterinburg.
 
Despite frustration with the local authorities, and dissatisfaction with their lot under Putin, many workers still struggle to see any alternative to him - a factor which could play into the president's hands.
 
Many residents voice an almost visceral dislike for the largely middle-class, Moscow-centric opposition protesters, who they say have no understanding of what it is to grapple with everyday problems.
 
"At those protests, they insulted us - the workers," said Albina Tatarinova, 50, stamping her feet in the light snow by the campfire in Verkhnyaya Sinyachikha.
 
"They called us 'cattle'. We gave them their own back: Of course, we voted for Putin. There was no alternative."
http://news.yahoo.com/insight-hunger-strikes-industrial-russia-test-loyalty-putin-060436356.html (http://news.yahoo.com/insight-hunger-strikes-industrial-russia-test-loyalty-putin-060436356.html)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: cryopyre on November 05, 2012, 09:52:22 PM
 ;domai;

If you want to fight the system, withdraw your labor as much as possible from the larger institutions. Governments and firms are not terribly different, despite what Nwabudike Morgan might say. As a passionate supporter of democracy and socialism in its purest forms, one of the best things you can do is:

1. Work freelance or among co-operatives with local scope.

2. Volunteer time at local radical organizations. I used to, for example, help out the Dry River Collective, and anarcho-syndicalist collective in my area.

The best thing one can do to enact change is to educate others. This is the approach of Antonio Gramsci, the Marxist whose ideas were applied to the affluent lifestyles of the first world liberal democracies where an actual class revolution was unlikely due to "bread and circuses". The biggest obstacle to revolution is a lack of class consciousness.

In the end, I am a believer that the thing that makes humans most happy is autonomy and creations. We all miss the days where our own handiwork was readily obvious to us. We used to be craftsmen and creators, but the industrial revolution brought about a society where we moved these craftsmen into factories where instead of being paid for their production, they were paid for their time, and their labor.

We need to take control of our own handiwork once again, or instead face a depressing life where our only compensation for our labor is a wage. Sure, money is nice, but the days when we could see the results of our work led us to lead happier lives.

I think I need that Foreman Domai avatar.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 05, 2012, 10:18:01 PM
Check your user profile>Modify Profile>Forum Profile>Choose avatar from gallery>[AC leaders] from the selection on the right>scroll until you find Domai.

Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 05, 2012, 10:31:20 PM
Well, the system in place is what it is, and killing the bosses is an unworkable solution for many reasons.  The goverment is entwined with business in a disgusting incestuous embrace that makes it increasingly difficult to distinguish the two.

The approach you articulate is good - but honestly, until a LOT more people can be persuaded to board the bus, a few hippies denying themselves is not gonna accomplish much.

So education is indeed KEY, this being technically still a democracy.  To my view, one of the few things government is really useful for is to play off against the robber barons.  Well that takes getting involved in the process on some level, to get a crowbar between the two and instigate a quarrel.  In my case, it's trying to articulate some ideas - plant seeds in a few minds.  Ideas have power to change the worlde.  The political right wing is the enemy of the people, and about half the people are collaborating in their own enslavement without even realising it.

We are all, with a few exceptions in the ruling class, the man caught on a cliff between the tigers of Government and Business - both want to eat/enslave us, and the solution is not eating strawberries, but getting the tigers to fight.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: cryopyre on November 05, 2012, 10:43:08 PM
Well, the system in place is what it is, and killing the bosses is an unworkable solution for many reasons.  The goverment is entwined with business in a disgusting incestuous embrace that makes it increasingly difficult to distinguish the two.

The approach you articulate is good - but honestly, until a LOT more people can be persuaded to board the bus, a few hippies denying themselves is not gonna accomplish much.

So education is indeed KEY, this being technically still a democracy.  To my view, one of the few things government is really useful for is to play off against the robber barons.  Well that takes getting involved in the process on some level, to get a crowbar between the two and instigate a quarrel.  In my case, it's trying to articulate some ideas - plant seeds in a few minds.  Ideas have power to change the worlde.  The political right wing is the enemy of the people, and about half the people are collaborating in their own enslavement without even realising it.

We are all, with a few exceptions in the ruling class, the man caught on a cliff between the tigers of Government and Business - both want to eat/enslave us, and the solution is not eating strawberries, but getting the tigers to fight.

I agree, not because I have a distaste for violence, but because a violent revolution is just unfeasible in the USA.

That's why I think the best approach *is* education. Pamphlets, books, propaganda in general with a leftist spin. Our biggest problem is that, unlike corporations, we do not have the institutional backing.

I think the best approach is to create a sort of leftist alliance. A "union" of workers and cooperatives and collectives which help fund each other and support each other. It's the only tactic which I can envision affecting much change. It has even been tried before, but was sabotaged by the government during the era when socialism was not only a bad word, but viewed as downright traitorous.

In other countries (like Italy), however, it has had success in pushing out and out-competing capitalist firms. That is why I think it is worth trying again.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 05, 2012, 11:02:10 PM
My sister Mylochka is generally more liberal than me, but hates when I launch into this sort of radical talk.  Thing is, I've been migrant labor (back in my showbiz days) and she hasn't.  The crap I put up with going from renaissance fair to renaissance fair did a lot to crystallize my thinking.  And anyone who's worked much in any factories in right-to-work states, and we both did in our youths, is a FOOL if they don't see what the Bosses are.  They want slaves.

You know, we have to focus our message somewhat to maximise political persuasion.  One of my grampas was a serious conservative bigot who enjoyed All in the Family because he thought Archie was right, but a lifelong registered Democrat.  Why?  He was a sharecropper during the great depression, and caught Roosevelt's act, and knew which side his bread was buttered on.

If he'd lived long enough, he'd have switched parties, 'cause the Democrats dropped the ball during the Regan years, and have never recovered it.  Tailor the message for my grampa, focus on labor issues, and you'll stop loosing contantly and being ineffective collaborators when you do win.  Stop playing the enemies' game and take it to the people.  I like to say that there hasn't been a Democrat in the White House since Jimmy Carter, and that's just pathetic.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 09, 2012, 04:05:08 PM
Referencing earlier talk about personal finance...

Quote
Americans’ Biggest Money Mistakes
By Chad Brooks, BusinessNewsDaily Contributor | LiveScience.com – 37 mins ago.. .

 
Unnecessary missteps with money can keep people from achieving financial security.  Whether it's over-using credit cards or not properly saving for unexpected expenses, financial experts see many errors that are relatively easy to correct. Here are 10 of the more common money mistakes American's make:
 
Budgeting
 
One of the most common financial mistakes is not setting and keeping to a monthly budget, said Kevin Gallegos, vice president of Phoenix operations for Freedom Financial Network.
 
"Budgeting may not sound exciting, but it is the number one, sure-fire way to stretch a salary and save money," Gallegos told BusinessNewsDaily. "Don’t do it, and you’re like a rudderless ship without a way to get where you want to go."
 
Creating a budget doesn't have to be a complicated process.
 
"The key is to set goals," Gallegos said. "Whether your goal is to take a European vacation, save for retirement, or budget time and money to train for a 10K, write down the goals and build your budget with the goals in mind."
 
Credit cards
 
Financial attorney Leslie Tayne believes many financial problems can be traced back to the use of high-interest credit cards.
 
"If you only pay the minimum on your balance, or miss credit card payments, you are perpetuating the debt cycle," Tayne said. "You are likely to continue accruing high interest and/orpenalties on your accounts, exacerbating your debt."
 
Keeping things to yourself
 
While talking about money might taboo, Nick Richtsmeier, a regional vice president for Trilogy Financial Services, said the number one mistake he sees is that too many people keep their financial moves a secret.
 
"If absolutely no one knows what you are doing with your finances then guaranteed you are fooling yourself into thinking you are doing better than you are," Richtsmeier said. "Have at least one person (in addition to your spouse) that can ask you honest questions about how your money decisions match your goals."
 
That person can be anyone from a reliable friend to a professional financial advisor, he said.
 
Credit reports
 
Credit coach Jeanne Kelly said a common misstep is not keeping track of a credit report.
 
"A big problem is people use credit and do not educate themselves on it," Kelly said. "Your credit report can change with you not even knowing it because you never look at it for accuracy."
 
Kelly’s first rule of credit is to regularly pull your credit report to ensure you are aware of what is being reported and how that can affect your financial well-being.
 
Not saving for repairs
 
Sally Palaian, a licensed psychologist who specializes in treating financial dysfunction, said too often people pretend they don't need to put money aside for maintenance, repairs and replacement of the things they depend on.
 
"I teach people that everything is going to break: dishwashers, car brakes, furnaces, teeth, computers and phones," Palaian said. "We need savings to handle these very predictable expenses that happen to everyone."
 
Buying a house
 
Buying a house that'smore than you can afford is the top mistake that will cripple a long-term financial plan, according to Ted Jenkin, CEO and founder of oXYGen Financial, Inc.
 
Jenkin advises his clients to only buy homes when the mortgage payments aren't more than between 28 and 34 percent of their total gross monthly income.
 
"It is impossible to squeeze into a home financially like you would a car or some other one-time purchase," Jenkin said. "Use that statistic in conjunction with putting 20 percent down on your home purchase and you will typically avoid this number one financial disaster."
 
Lending terms
 
David Rodriguez, a financial education advocate for Generations Federal Credit Union, says the biggest mistake he sees among his clients is their lack of understanding of lending terms such as APR, balance transfers and hidden fees.
 
"The most common issue I have come across in teaching my financial education classes is the lack of understanding on how to calculate monthly APR, one of the most critical components of any loan or credit card," Rodriguez said. "Not understanding these key terms can easily land consumers in jam very quickly."
 
Diversify investments
 
Thinking its okay to invest all your money in one place is a near-certain way to get into major financial difficulties, financial advisor Darrell Canby said.
 
"Investing all of your money in a single stock is like going to the track and putting all of your money on a single horse," Canby said. "Both are big gambles."
 
Prudent investors divide their investments between stocks, bonds and other investments, as well as keep a small amount in cash equivalents such as money market funds, Canby said.
 
Retirement planning
 
While the population is beginning to live longer, certified financial planner Damian Rothermel still sees many people planning their retirement based on living only until age 90.
 
"This is probably too short of a timeframe, as many individuals live longer," Rothermel said. "The concern is the plan put in place may not last as long as the client lives."
 
Life insurance
 
While it might not be easy to think about your death, financial advisor and insurance broker Liran Hirschkorn said a big mistake is not thinking about the financial wellbeing of loved ones left behind.
 
"I constantly hear stories of people who lost the breadwinner and are suddenly put into a very tough financial situation," Hirschkorn. "Protecting yourself with proper disability and life insurance is key."
http://news.yahoo.com/americans-biggest-money-mistakes-152733564.html (http://news.yahoo.com/americans-biggest-money-mistakes-152733564.html)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on November 10, 2012, 07:13:38 AM
Putin isn't a bad leader BU, but the government overall is bloated and corrupt. Things are ignored and I will tell you something of personal experienced.

For all the flaws of the Soviet system, let me tell you something. When I have to drive and waste money on fuel for going from a great distance to another, and im alone in a car, I miss the transportation system, which used to transported not just one, but hundreds upon hundreds of people efficiently and safely from point a to b.

If I were to go to nearby Vyatka, and go out on the city streets, and mind you, Vyatka isn't a bad city at all, I would have a high chance of being mugged after dark.
In the old regime that thought never even came to mind.

When I have to get prescribed medicine now, I have to pay a substantial sum for a meager supply of it. I have to pay expenses now for dialysis, a thing that if I do not receive I will die. A service important to my very existence. In the old regime, you may have had to apply and go through a degree of paperwork and at worst, wait. But eventually your needs were met and you were taken care of.

There is god damn NeoNazi parties now, in a land that was once considered a beacon of internationalist supporter and champion of Socialism.

I'm surprised im not dead yet by how stagnated things are. And im just one perspective of this society. It's not any better for the "new" businessman going about now either. Business climates are so entrenched with corrupt circles and cliques it is impossible to have fair dealings, business here is scrupulous and unforgiven, and men leave each other to die. No loyalty or honour persists anymore. Its disgusting. I've seen honourable men reduced to nothing by unscrupulous positions, have everything taken from them and cast out as worthless. Men who had served with integrity in what some may have called a flawed, or brutal system. But these were men and women who served people for better or worse and the new system threw them away like they were garbage. I myself experienced this to extents, and it's outright abominable.

That's a bit of a view for you BU. As for Putin becoming an autocrat, that goes without saying. Russia was always autocratic, even under the Soviet system. It's how our culture is.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 10, 2012, 02:48:35 PM
Some of that's Yeltsin, I would guess.  He always looked like a cynical opportunist to me, with no real beliefs.  That's a bad start for a new system to get off to.  Putin looks good by comparison.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on November 10, 2012, 11:17:40 PM
Most of that's Yeltsin, I would guess.  He always looked like a cynical opportunist to me, with no real beliefs.  That's a bad start for a new system to get off to.  Putin looks good by comparison.

He looks good compared to a lying sack of lard, yes.
 Putin isn't a man who is gutless or has no integrity, but he's certainly not the head strong man that he's painted as.
 He does his job but the overall system's bloated structure is preventing progress, and democracy overall is just inefficient here.

Along with infrastructure and services being let down, the military has suffered from lack of discipline and now contract soldiers are being put in place where once conscripts filled that role. And while conscripts were not the most enthusiastic men and women, they had more integrity then some [progeny of unmarried parents] filing in for coin. They still have to opt in to show up. My daughter tells me many people duck out of the mandatory service now, and I know from personal experience that contractors are unreliable and if they had the chance would be something akin to bandits.

I'm no fan of the current system at all. It's funny how Western media may have said Russia and the Soviet bloc as a whole was "liberated" from the Iron Curtain, but honestly the system was better before. And the only freedom people really enjoyed under the new regime is the one to leave the cesspit of which my (and other's) nation(s) has become. I don't leave because I have nowhere else to go and I hope for better, and I am a stubborn man.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 10, 2012, 11:56:04 PM
I know you're only one retired man, but isn't it your duty to your country to try to do something?  Remember that ideas have the power to change the world - you are articulate and intelligent, or I wouldn't have taked politics with you twice.  If you think there's no use getting involved in a fundamentally broken system directly -which is how I feel about the system in my country- you could still find somewhere on the web to talk about ideas that might help inhopes they'll influence people and spread.  It's something I'm doing in a modest way in the Election thread now.  Ideas have power.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Green1 on November 11, 2012, 05:05:01 AM
Man, I just want to improve my lot in life so I can do fulfilling work and I can be comfortable. Maybe only have to work part time so I can do nothing but game, bike, and do yoga.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 11, 2012, 05:07:07 AM
Oh, I'm not making a major project of it myself.  The best thing I can do for the world is to do no harm and take care of my own problems.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on November 11, 2012, 06:32:06 AM
I've done just exactly that BU, directly for a while, indirectly at present. I was on my local town administration for a small while and I advocated change, but when it comes to re-elections I had enough votes to be on one of the seats for the my nearby town council, and a good number, but for some reason the votes had to be "re-cast." I was in opposition of a particular group and guess what, with the "re-casted" votes, I found that the man who was my main opposition took my place directly and me shot to out to dust. And this man previously barely had any votes for the entirety of the election process. Mind you it's a mere municipal election but his political party also achieved seats in their respective districts as well, with similar situations, and they had some rather wealthy supporters. As an independent, I wasn't tied to any of the existing parties. After that I said screw it and I don't bother anymore.

What I do now is I provide my voice if im asked and I just mind my own business, I take care of people I care about and I try to stay active within my community and online so I still have social interaction.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 12, 2012, 10:59:47 PM
Quote
Putin suggests some flexibility on anti-dissent laws
By Denis Dyomkin | Reuters – 33 mins ago.. .


MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Monday he was ready to review or move more slowly on a clutch of recent laws that rights campaigners say are aimed at silencing his critics.
 
Since Putin's re-election in March, preceded by the largest protests in his 12 years in power, parliament has rushed through laws tightening controls on the Internet, increasing the penalties for defamation and expanding the definition of high treason, among others.
 
Rights activists and political opponents say Putin has orchestrated the clampdown, and the West has also expressed concern that civil liberties are being rolled back.
 
"Everything that is taking place here is done for a sole purpose - that of our country being stable. Effective and stable," Putin told a meeting of the Civil Society and Human Rights Council, his own advisory body.
 
"It cannot be more stable if it is only based on the power of law enforcement and repressive agencies. It will be more stable if society is more collective, effective, responsible, if a bond is established between society, the citizen and the state," he added, according to RIA news agency.
 
Putin was heading the first meeting of the council since 39 new members were elected in an online vote to replace prominent rights campaigners who resigned after his re-election in March.
 
He told the meeting he was ready to reconsider the law on high treason, which rights campaigners say could mean that any Russian citizen who had contacts with a foreigner could be accused of trying to undermine the state.
 
Putin also offered to rephrase wording in another bill that envisages stiffer punishments for defamation, and said parliament should not rush to adopt a law that would introduce jail sentences for offending religious feelings.
 
He also said he would "look again" at legislation signed in July that requires foreign-funded non-governmental organizations to register as "foreign agents", saying its main aim was to prevent foreign meddling in Russia's domestic affairs.
 
Council members said it was not clear what kind of concessions, if any, Putin might ultimately make.
 
"What was that? The way I see it, an attempt to get some sort of feedback on all the laws that have irritated society," said Irina Khakamada, a member of the Council. "Let's see what the result will be. I don't know."
http://news.yahoo.com/putin-suggests-flexibility-anti-dissent-laws-203826038.html (http://news.yahoo.com/putin-suggests-flexibility-anti-dissent-laws-203826038.html)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 14, 2012, 10:45:17 PM
Quote
Russia's Putin signs new treason law
By Nastassia Astrasheuskaya and Steve Gutterman | Reuters – 7 hrs ago.. .


MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia introduced a new law broadening the definition of treason on Wednesday, alarming opponents who say Vladimir Putin will use it to silence his critics and that almost anyone in contact with foreigners will be at risk.
 
The legislation allows Russians representing international organizations to be charged with treason, as well as those working for foreign states and bodies, and expands the range of actions that can be considered treasonous.
 
Putin signed the law on Tuesday and it took effect on Wednesday when it was published in the official gazette, Rossiyskaya Gazeta, despite a promise by the president on Monday that he would review it.
 
Political opponents and rights activists say the legislation is the latest in a series of laws intended to crack down on the opposition and reduce foreign influence since he returned to the Kremlin in May for a six-year third term.
 
"It's an attempt to return not just to Soviet times but to the Stalin era, when any conversation with a foreigner was seen as a potential threat to the state," said Lyudmila Alexeyeva, 85, a former Soviet dissident and veteran human rights activist.
 
She said it would probably be used selectively against Kremlin critics and others "who irritate the authorities".
 
Dmitry Oreshkin, a political analyst sympathetic with anti-Putin protests this year, said the motivation behind the law was that "the state is more important than its citizens, so there must be as much control over citizens as possible".
 
The law was backed by the Federal Security Service (FSB), the main successor of the Soviet KGB, and landed on the desk of longtime KGB officer Putin after being approved by both houses of parliament in the space of nine days last month.
 
The FSB, in a rare public comment, was quoted by state-run news agency Itar-Tass as saying the law had been updated after being unchanged since the 1960s because "foreign intelligence agencies' methods and tactics for gathering information have changed".
 
Putin whipped up anti-U.S. sentiment during his campaign for the March presidential election, and Russian officials have said the law is needed to help prevent foreign governments using organizations in Russia to gather state secrets.
 
"Citizens recruited by international organizations acting against the country's interests will also be considered traitors", Rossiyskaya Gazeta said in a commentary on its website.
 
ANTI WESTERN SENTIMENT
 
Putin has frequently accused Western nations of seeking to undermine Russia's security and weaken the nuclear-armed nation, and has suggested they use non-governmental organizations to do so.
 
Moscow ordered the U.S. Agency for International Development to cease its Russian operations in October, accusing it of seeking to influence elections.
 
In July, Putin signed a law requiring foreign-funded NGOs deemed to be engaging in political activity to register as "foreign agents", and critics say other legislation is also aimed at silencing opponents.
 
The United States and the European Union have criticized the laws, and expressed concern about criminal charges laid against several opposition leaders in the last few months.
 
During his election campaign, Putin faced protests which at times drew tens of thousands of people into Moscow's streets, and he accused the United States of whipping up demonstrations against his rule.
 
The maximum sentence for high treason remains 20 years, but the legislation signed by Putin also introduced prison terms of up to eight years for Russians acquiring state secrets in certain ways even if they are not passed on to foreigners.
 
It broadened the spectrum of actions that can attract treason charges to include giving "financial, material, technical, consultative or other aid" to a government or organization deemed to be seeking to undermine Russian security.
 
Those changes, as well as the removal of the stipulation that actions must be aimed against Russia's "external" security to be considered treasonous, have raised concerns the law could be applied broadly to punish government opponents.
 
At a meeting of his human rights council on Monday, Putin listened to a retired Constitutional Court judge's concerns about the legislation, which she said did not require authorities to prove a suspect damaged state security.
 
But although Putin said he would look again at the law, his spokesman said he had signed it a day later.
 
"It's not the first time Putin has said the right words while slowly tightening the screws," Alexeyeva said.
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-expands-definition-treason-under-law-110613866.html (http://news.yahoo.com/russia-expands-definition-treason-under-law-110613866.html)

Well.  This just doesn't sound good at all.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 15, 2012, 02:29:23 AM
Quote
Ron Paul: 'Our Constitution Has Failed'
By Chris Good | ABC OTUS News – 3 hrs ago.. .


 Rep. Ron Paul, the iconic libertarian congressman from Texas, has delivered what will most likely be his final address to Congress.
 
In a sprawling, 52-minute speech to the House chamber, Paul lambasted U.S. government, politicians and special interests, declaring that the U.S. people must return to virtue before the government allows them to be free, and that the Constitution has failed to limit the scope of an authoritarian bureaucracy.
 




"Our Constitution, which was intended to limit government power and abuse, has failed," Paul said. "The Founders warned that a free society depends on a virtuous and moral people. The current crisis reflects that their concerns were justified."
 
For the retiring Republican, 77, the "current crisis" isn't quite what it is for other members of Congress, who routinely use that word to describe the economic recession that followed the 2008 financial crash. To the Texas Republican, that's part of it, but the causes are deeper, and it's also a crisis of governmental authoritarianism and the vanishing of personal liberty.
 
"If it's not accepted that big government, fiat money, ignoring liberty, central economic planning, welfarism, and warfarism caused our crisis, we can expect a continuous and dangerous march toward corporatism and even fascism with even more loss of our liberties," said Paul, an obstetrician-gynecologist by training.
 
The problem isn't just government's size, but its use of force, both in starting preemptive wars and as it coerces U.S. citizens with police power. To Paul, this is the fault of Americans who no longer prioritize liberty, and it will lead to the unraveling of orderly society unless people change.
 
"Restraining aggressive behavior is one thing, but legalizing a government monopoly for initiating aggression can only lead to exhausting liberty associated with chaos, anger and the breakdown of civil society," Paul said. "We now have a standing army of armed bureaucrats in the TSA, CIA, FBI, Fish and Wildlife, FEMA, IRS, Corp of Engineers, etc., numbering over 100,000 civil society."
 
More than coercive, to Paul the government is also corrupt: "All branches of our government today are controlled by individuals who use their power to undermine liberty and enhance the welfare/warfare state-and frequently their own wealth and power," he said.
 
Throughout his speech, Paul questioned not only the fundamental health of America's social compact, but specifics like fiat money, the power of the Federal Reserve, the PATRIOT Act, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act modifications, undeclared war, the illegalization of medical marijuana, mandatory sentencing requirements for drug crimes, the illegalization of hemp, TSA searches, federal debt and borrowing, the White House's authority to assassinate those it declares terrorists, the legalization of detaining U.S. citizens for national-security purposes, the political power of AIPAC, and the regulation of light bulbs and toilets in people's homes.
 
For Paul, the list of grievances is long, and he might not have accomplished much in Congress: "In many ways, according to conventional wisdom, my off-and-on career in Congress, from 1976 to 2012, accomplished very little," he said. "No named legislation, no named federal buildings or highways, thank goodness. In spite of my efforts, the government has grown exponentially, taxes remain excessive, and the prolific increase of incomprehensible regulations continues. Wars are constant and pursued without congressional declaration."
 
In thinking about the champions of liberty, his lesson is a bitter one: "History has shown that the masses have been quite receptive to the promises of authoritarians which are rarely if ever fulfilled," but his prescription is hopeful.
 
Paul left the podium, for the last time, offering an "answer" to all of these problems: that people should choose liberty and limit government, and seek change within themselves.
 
"The number one responsibility for each of us is to change ourselves with hope that others will follow," Paul said, urging an end to two motives that have hindered U.S. society: envy and intolerance.
 
"I have come to one firm conviction after these many years of trying to figure out the plain truth of things. The best chance for achieving peace and prosperity, for the maximum number of people worldwide, is to pursue the cause of liberty. If you find this to be a worthwhile message, spread it throughout the land."
http://news.yahoo.com/ron-paul-departs-constitution-failed-230217615--abc-news-politics.html (http://news.yahoo.com/ron-paul-departs-constitution-failed-230217615--abc-news-politics.html)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 24, 2012, 04:14:47 PM
Quote
Crisis over president's powers exposes Egypt divisions
By Tom Perry | Reuters – 3 hrs ago.. .


CAIRO (Reuters) - Youths clashed with police in Cairo on Saturday as protests at new powers assumed by President Mohamed Mursi stretched into a second day, confronting Egypt with a crisis that has exposed the split between newly empowered Islamists and their opponents.
 
A handful of hardcore activists hurling rocks battled riot police in the streets near Tahrir Square, where several thousand protesters massed on Friday to demonstrate against a decree that has rallied opposition ranks against Mursi.
 
Following a day of violence in Cairo, Alexandria, Port Said and Suez, the smell of teargas hung over the square, the heart of the uprising that swept Hosni Mubarak from power in February 2011.
 
More than 300 people were injured on Friday. Offices of the Muslim Brotherhood, which propelled Mursi to power, were attacked in at least three cities.
 
Egypt's highest judicial authority said the decree marked an "unprecedented attack" on the independence of the judiciary, the state news agency reported.
 
Leftist, liberal and socialist parties have called for an open-ended sit-in with the aim of "toppling" the decree which has also drawn statements of concern from the United States and the European Union. A few dozen activists manning makeshift barricades kept traffic out of the square on Saturday.
 
Calling the decree "fascist and despotic", Mursi's critics called for a big protest on Tuesday against a move they say has revealed the autocratic impulses of a man jailed by Mubarak, who outlawed Mursi's Muslim Brotherhood.
 
"We are facing a historic moment in which we either complete our revolution or we abandon it to become prey for a group that has put its narrow party interests above the national interest," the liberal Dustour Party said in a statement.
 
Issued late on Thursday, the decree marks an effort by the Mursi administration to consolidate its influence after it successfully sidelined Mubarak-era generals in August.
 
The decree reflects the Muslim Brotherhood's suspicion towards sections of a judiciary unreformed from Mubarak's days: it guards from judicial review decisions taken by Mursi until a new parliament is elected in a vote expected early next year.
 
It also shields the assembly writing Egypt's new constitution from a raft of legal challenges that have threatened the Islamist-dominated assembly with dissolution.
 
The Mursi administration has defended the decree on the grounds that it aims to speed up a protracted transition from Mubarak's rule to a new system of democratic government.
 
"It aims to sideline Mursi's enemies in the judiciary and ultimately to impose and head off any legal challenges to the constitution," said Elijah Zarwan, a fellow with The European Council on Foreign Relations.
 
"We are in a situation now where both sides are escalating and its getting harder and harder to see how either side can gracefully climb down," Zarwan said.
 
"INTIFADA"
 
A central element of Egypt's transition, the drafting of the constitution has been plagued by divisions between Islamists and their more secular-minded opponents, nearly all of whom have withdrawn from the body writing the document.
 
Mursi's new powers allowed him to replace the prosecutor general - a Mubarak holdover who the new president had tried to replace in October only to kick up a storm of protest from the judiciary, which said he had exceeded his authorities.
 
At an emergency meeting called to discuss the decree, the Supreme Judicial Council, Egypt's highest judicial authority, urged "the president of the republic to distance this decree from everything that violates the judicial authority".
 
Al-Masry Al-Youm, one of Egypt's most widely read dailies, hailed Friday's protest as "The November 23 Intifada", invoking the Arabic word for uprising. "The people support the president's decisions," declared Freedom and Justice, the newspaper run by the Brotherhood's political party.
 
The ultraorthodox Salafi Islamist groups that have been pushing for tighter application of Islamic law in the new constitution have rallied behind the decree.
 
The Nour Party, one such group, stated its support for the Mursi decree. Al-Gama'a al-Islamiya, which carried arms against the state in the 1990s, said it would save the revolution from what it described as remnants of the Mubarak regime.
 
Facing the biggest storm of criticism since he won the presidential election in June, Mursi addressed his supporters outside the presidential palace on Friday. He said opposition did not worry him, but it had to be "real and strong".
 
Candidates defeated by Mursi in the presidential vote joined the protests against his decision on Friday. Former Arab League Secretary General Amr Moussa was photographed linking arms with leftist Hamdeen Sabahi, liberal Mohamed ElBaradei and others.
 
Mursi is now confronted with a domestic crisis just as his administration won international praise for mediating an end to the eight-day war between Israel and Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.
 
"The decisions and declarations announced on November 22 raise concerns for many Egyptians and for the international community," State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said in a statement.
 
The European Union urged Mursi to respect the democratic process, while the United Nations expressed fears about human rights.
http://news.yahoo.com/clashes-cairo-mursi-seizes-powers-063444506.html (http://news.yahoo.com/clashes-cairo-mursi-seizes-powers-063444506.html)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on November 26, 2012, 09:30:35 PM
Oh, I'm not making a major project of it myself.  The best thing I can do for the world is to do no harm and take care of my own problems.

I like this idea.  ;)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 26, 2012, 09:50:37 PM
[shrugs] I'm not a kid; it was a hard thing to learn, but I'm not fit to save the world without first being competent at managing my own problems.  Gotta have my priorities straight.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 27, 2012, 04:43:06 PM
Quote
Bitter struggle over Internet regulation to dominate global summit
By Joseph Menn | Reuters – 5 hrs ago


SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - An unprecedented debate over how the global Internet is governed is set to dominate a meeting of officials in Dubai next week, with many countries pushing to give a United Nations body broad regulatory powers even as the United States and others contend such a move could mean the end of the open Internet.

The 12-day conference of the International Telecommunications Union, a 157-year-old organization that's now an arm of the United Nations, largely pits revenue-seeking developing countries and authoritarian regimes that want more control over Internet content against U.S. policymakers and private Net companies that prefer the status quo.

Many of the proposals have drawn fury from free-speech and human-rights advocates and have prompted resolutions from the U.S. Congress and the European Parliament, calling for the current decentralized system of governance to remain in place.

While specifics of some of the most contentious proposals remain secret, leaked drafts show that Russia is seeking rules giving individual countries broad permission to shape the content and structure of the Internet within their borders, while a group of Arab countries is advocating universal identification of Internet users. Some developing countries and telecom providers, meanwhile, want to make content providers pay for Internet transmission.

Fundamentally, most of the 193 countries in the ITU seem eager to enshrine the idea that the U.N. agency, rather than today's hodgepodge of private companies and nonprofit groups, should govern the Internet. The ITU meeting, which aims to update a longstanding treaty on how telecom companies interact across borders, will also tackle other topics such as extending wireless coverage into rural areas.

If a majority of the ITU countries approve U.N. dominion over the Internet along with onerous rules, a backlash could lead to battles in Western countries over whether to ratify the treaty, with tech companies rallying ordinary Internet users against it and some telecom carriers supporting it.

In fact, dozens of countries including China, Russia and some Arab states, already restrict Internet access within their own borders, but those governments would have greater leverage over Internet content and service providers if the changes were backed up by international agreement.

Amid the escalating rhetoric, search king Google last week asked users to "pledge your support for the free and open Internet" on social media, raising the specter of a grassroots outpouring of the sort that blocked American copyright legislation and a global anti-piracy treaty earlier this year.

Google's Vint Cerf, the ordinarily diplomatic co-author of the basic protocol for Internet data, denounced the proposed new rules as hopeless efforts by some governments and state-controlled telecom authorities to assert their power.

"These persistent attempts are just evidence that this breed of dinosaurs, with their pea-sized brains, hasn't figured out that they are dead yet, because the signal hasn't traveled up their long necks," Cerf told Reuters.

The ITU's top official, Secretary-General Hamadoun Touré, sought to downplay the concerns in a separate interview, stressing to Reuters that even though updates to the treaty could be approved by a simple majority, in practice nothing will be adopted without near-unanimity.

"Voting means winners and losers. We can't afford that in the ITU," said Touré, a former satellite engineer from Mali who was educated in Russia.

Touré predicted that only "light-touch" regulation on cyber-security will emerge by "consensus," using a deliberately vague term that implies something between a majority and unanimity.

He rejected criticism that the ITU's historic role in coordinating phone carriers leaves it unfit to corral the unruly Internet, comparing the Web to a transportation system.

"Because you own the roads, you don't own the cars and especially not the goods they are transporting. But when you buy a car you don't buy the road," Touré said. "You need to know the number of cars and their size and weight so you can build the bridges and set the right number of lanes. You need light-touch regulation to set down a few traffic lights."

Because the proposals from Russia, China and others are more extreme, Touré has been able to cast mild regulation as a compromise accommodating nearly everyone.

Two leaked Russian proposals say nations should have the sovereign right "to regulate the national Internet segment." An August draft proposal from a group of 17 Arab countries called for transmission recipients to receive "identity information" about the senders, potentially endangering the anonymity of political dissidents, among others.

A U.S. State Department envoy to the gathering and Cerf agreed with Touré that there is unlikely to be any drastic change emerging from Dubai.

"The decisions are going to be by consensus," said U.S. delegation chief Terry Kramer. He said anti-anonymity measures such as mandatory Internet address tracing won't be adopted because of opposition by the United States and others.

"We're a strong voice, given a lot of the heritage," Kramer said, referring to the U.S. invention and rapid development of the Internet. "A lot of European markets are very similar, and a lot of Asian counties are supportive, except China."

Despite the reassuring words, a fresh leak over the weekend showed that the ITU's top managers viewed a badly split conference as a realistic prospect less than three months ago.

The leaked program for a "senior management retreat" for the ITU in early September included a summary discussion of the most probable outcomes from Dubai, concluding that the two likeliest scenarios involved major reworkings of the treaty that the United States would then refuse to sign. The only difference between the scenarios lay in how many other developed countries sided with the Americans.

ITU officials didn't dispute the authenticity of the document, which was published by Jerry Brito, a researcher at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University as part of a continuing series of ITU-related leaks.

Touré said that because the disagreements are so vast, the conference probably will end up with something resembling the ITU's earlier formula for trying to protect children online — an agreement to cooperate more and share laws and best practices, perhaps with hotlines to head off misunderstandings.

"From Dubai, what I personally expect is to see some kind of principles saying cyberspace is a global phenomenon and it can only have global responses," Touré said. "I just intend to put down some key principles there that will lay the seeds for something in the future."

Even vague terms could be used as a pretext for more oppressive policies in various countries, though, and activists and industry leaders fear those countries might also band together by region to offer very different Internet experiences.

In some ways, the U.N. involvement reflects a reversal that has already begun.

The United States has steadily diminished its official role in Internet governance, and many nations have stepped up their filtering and surveillance. More than 40 countries now filter the Net that their citizens see, said Ronald Deibert, a University of Toronto political science professor and authority on international conflicts in cyberspace.

Google Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt said this month that the Net is already on the road to Balkanization, with people in different countries getting very different experiences from the services provided by Google, Skype and others.

This month, a new law in Russia took effect that allows the federal government to order a Website offline without a court hearing. Iran recently rolled out a version of the Internet that replaced the real thing within its borders. A growing number of countries, including China and India, order sites to censor themselves for political, religious and other content.

China, which has the world's largest number of Internet users, also blocks access to Facebook, YouTube and Twitter among other sites within its borders.

The loose governance of the Net currently depends on the non-profit ICANN, which oversees the Web's address system, along with voluntary standard-setting bodies and a patchwork of national laws and regional agreements. Many countries see it as a U.S.-dominated system.

The U.S. isolation within the ITU is exacerbated by it being home to many of the biggest technology companies - and by the fact that it could have military reasons for wanting to preserve online anonymity. The Internet emerged as a critical military domain with the 2010 discovery of Stuxnet, a computer worm developed at least in part by the United States that attacked Iran's nuclear program.

Whatever the outcome in Dubai, the conference stands a good chance of becoming a historic turning point for the Internet.

"I see this as a constitutional moment for global cyberspace, where we can stand back and say, `Who should be in charge?' said Deibert. "What are the rules of the road?"
http://news.yahoo.com/bitter-struggle-over-internet-regulation-dominate-global-summit-040702595--sector.html (http://news.yahoo.com/bitter-struggle-over-internet-regulation-dominate-global-summit-040702595--sector.html)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 27, 2012, 04:44:23 PM
Quote
Tajikistan blocks Facebook access to silence critics
By Roman Kozhevnikov | Reuters – 4 hrs ago.. .


DUSHANBE (Reuters) - Tajikistan has blocked access to Facebook in response to a slew of comments spreading "mud and slander" about veteran President Imomali Rakhmon and officials in the Central Asian republic.
 
The ban on the popular social networking site is the latest crackdown on dissent in Tajikistan a year before an election that could extend Rakhmon's two-decade rule.
 
Beg Zukhurov, head of the state-run communications service that is enforcing the ban - the second time Tajikistan has blocked Facebook this year - accused unnamed donors of paying users to post negative comments about "respected figures".
 
"The best representatives of the public - among them academics, doctors and important cultural figures - are tired of the stream of mud and slander that flows from the website called Facebook," Zukhurov told Reuters by telephone on Tuesday.
 
"With this public support, a decision was taken to block this site, where some people are receiving $5,000 to $10,000 for every critical comment that they post."
 
He did not offer any evidence for this allegation or say who might be funding these posts.
 
Rakhmon has ruled since 1992 in Tajikistan, an impoverished ex-Soviet republic of 7.5 million people lying on a major transit route for Afghan drugs to Europe and Russia.
 
Victory in a November 2013 election would give the 60-year-old former cotton farm boss a further seven years in charge of a country still finding its way after a civil war in the 1990s that killed tens of thousands.
 
In recent months, the government has turned its attention to damping down dissent by creating a volunteer-run body to monitor Internet use and reprimand those who openly criticize the government.
 
WARY OF SOCIAL MEDIA
 
Tighter Internet controls echo measures taken by other former Soviet republics in Central Asia, where authoritarian rulers are wary of the role social media played in revolutions in the Arab world and mass protests in Russia.
 
Tajikistan authorities have also launched a crackdown on religious groups and imprisoned more than 150 people in the last three years on charges of extremism and attempting to subvert the constitution.
 
Officials have blocked access to Facebook before, for the same reason. The site was shut for 10 days in March, prompting criticism from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
 
Facebook's popularity has soared in Tajikistan. Membership has trebled to more than 40,000 over the last 18 months.
 
"Does Facebook have an owner? I'd like to speak to him," Zukhurov said. "Let him come here and meet me in my office."
 
Zafar Abdullayev, a political analyst in the capital Dushanbe, said he believed the ban reflected concerns about rising public criticism ahead of the presidential election.
 
"We can expect to see more steps to restrict freedom of speech on the Internet, as the authorities have made no secret of the fact they see a real threat in social networking sites," he said.
 
The website of Russian news agency RIA Novosti and state-run television channel Rossiya-24 were also blocked along with Facebook in March, and access has not been restored.
 
Some Internet users in Tajikistan, however, have installed software that allows them to circumvent the blockage.
http://news.yahoo.com/tajikistan-blocks-facebook-access-silence-critics-121104317.html (http://news.yahoo.com/tajikistan-blocks-facebook-access-silence-critics-121104317.html)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 10, 2012, 03:03:59 PM
Quote
Egypt army gets temporary power to arrest civilians
By Marwa Awad | Reuters – 17 mins ago


CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt's government has temporarily given the military the authority to arrest civilians to help safeguard a constitutional referendum planned for Saturday, the official gazette said.

The order, gazetted late on Sunday, said the military would support police and liaise with them to protect "vital institutions" until the referendum result is declared.

The decree gave army officers the right to make arrests and transfer detainees to prosecutors.

Despite its limited nature, the edict will revive memories of Hosni Mubarak's emergency law, also introduced as a temporary expedient, under which military or state security courts tried thousands of political dissidents and Islamist militants.

But a military source stressed that the measure, introduced by a civilian government, would have a short shelf-life.

"The latest law giving the armed forces the right to arrest anyone involved in illegal actions such as burning buildings or damaging public sites is to ensure security during the referendum only," the military source said.

"The armed forces secured polling stations during previous elections when it was in charge of the country," the source said, referring to 16 months of army rule after Mubarak fell.

"Now the president is in charge. In order for the armed forces to be involved in securing the referendum, a law had to be issued saying so," the source added.

Presidential spokesman Yasser Ali said the committee overseeing the vote had requested the army's assistance.

"The armed forces will work within a legal framework to secure the referendum and will return (to barracks) as soon as the referendum is over," Ali said.

On Saturday, the military urged rival political forces to solve their disputes via dialogue and said the opposite would drag the country into a "dark tunnel", which it would not allow.

A statement issued by the military spokesman and read on state radio and television made no mention of President Mohamed Mursi, but said a solution to the political crisis should not contradict "legitimacy and the rules of democracy".

A military source close to top officers said the statement "does not indicate any future intervention in politics".

A military council took over after a popular revolt ended Mubarak's 30 years of army-backed rule last year. It then handed power to Mursi, who became Egypt's first freely elected leader in June. The military has not intervened in the latest crisis.

The army statement said the military's duty was to protect national interests and secure vital state institutions.

"The armed forces affirm that dialogue is the best and only way to reach consensus," it added. "The opposite of that will bring us to a dark tunnel that will result in catastrophe and that is something we will not allow."

Hassan Abu Taleb of the Al Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies said Saturday's army statement suggested the military wanted both sides to talk out their differences, but discounted the chance of direct military intervention.

"They realize that interfering again in a situation of civil combat will squeeze them between two rocks," he said.
http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-army-given-arrests-over-referendum-113849380.html (http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-army-given-arrests-over-referendum-113849380.html)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on December 11, 2012, 09:52:32 AM
The Arab Spring is more of the Arab cycle in my eyes. Its just a collection of full circle conflicts and changes.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Dio on August 31, 2013, 01:22:37 AM
I first start :look: and decide to open this topic.
I start :read:.
Next I am :o.
Then I feel :relief: as I digest all of the information.
After a while, I realize that many things that I believe are not so different.
Finally this is a very interesting topic to read.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 31, 2013, 01:42:55 AM
Rules against necro-threading are stupid.  (You weren't minding you own business, though; you were in Who's Online and saw me or brand new member Jolly Roger looking.  I reckon he was looking for politics, and while this ain't focused, political it mostly is.)

Anything you'd care to mention agreeing or disagreeing with?
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Dio on August 31, 2013, 02:01:45 AM
1. So here are the things that I wanted to say:
1a. You called me on my about minding my own business (I admit that I might have been wrong on that one. So I apologize and will edit it out of my previous post).
1b. I was uncertain if this forum had rules against necro-posting.
1i. I hope that I have not gotten on anyone's bad side.
1c. Here are some of the facts I agree with:
1d. Politics is never a honest business or profession.
1e. That the people in power are those who have the most powerful/wealthy supporters for that particular office or area.
1f. That businesses are often in cahoots with government.
1g. I believe all political models have some pitfalls.
1h. That a lot people are unwise with their personal finances.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 31, 2013, 02:20:39 AM
No, no reason for anyone to be offended, and no need to apologize.  Don't sweat it.

Quote
1d. Politics is never a honest business or profession.
I disagree.  Politics is almost never a honest business or profession.

There are a lot of temptations built into our corrupt system.  I suspect that most politicians go in sincerely wanting to save the world, but few have the strength of character to swim against the tide forever - and the system is set up to deny advancement to men who won't play the (dirty) game.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Geo on August 31, 2013, 01:56:51 PM
1h. That a lot people are unwise with their personal finances.

This.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 31, 2013, 02:11:17 PM
Ain't no doubt about that one.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Geo on August 31, 2013, 02:28:18 PM
It's a pit I was in the proces of sliding in: too many jaunts into the world.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 31, 2013, 02:41:42 PM
Daddy, who was naturally my guru in the wonderful world of being a tight-fisted sob, was actually pretty generous during our annual vacation; that was one of the things he'd nickel and dimed all year to be able to afford.  But obviously, we weren't globe-trotting as you do.  More a four hour drive and a week in a cheap cabin at a touristy lake.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: JarlWolf on January 02, 2014, 11:56:01 AM
You know, on terms of money I've came from a rollercoaster of experiences as you well know, and at one point I was in debt that nearly killed me. But the thing I look at now is my daughters and their families, and the thing I worry as, as a parent is that they'll get screwed over when I am gone. My daughters aren't stupid by any means, I taught them the best I could of things, but I do fear for the future of them to a great regard. I don't like the way things are heading with financial systems, and I don't trust them one bit, and for most of my life, never have.

I don't know. Whats your thoughts on how things are going to go? I have a feeling that the world is eventually going to go into a phase where the have nots are going to increase severely in number, grind their axes and start swinging at the haves. I think that society is going to enter a rapturing moment with economic and socioeconomic tensions, and it's going to be ugly.

And I have a few reasons for thinking that... but im too tired to explain it at the moment. 
Title: NSA Spying Isn't Just Illegal Invasion of Privacy—It Doesn't Stop Terror Attacks
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 29, 2014, 06:01:20 PM
Quote
NSA Spying Isn't Just an Illegal Invasion of Privacy—It Doesn't Stop Terror Attacks
By Sarah Parvini | Takepart.com | 22 hours ago


     
The National Security Agency surveillance program that keeps tabs on almost every phone call in the U.S. is illegal and should be shut down—especially considering no terrorist threats have been discovered through the massive data collection, according to a new report released by a federal privacy watchdog.

The five-member Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board—an independent agency created by Congress in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks—came out with its scathing review of the NSA's “bulk telephony metadata collection program” (the fancy name for collecting your phone records) on Thursday, claiming the program has essentially been useless in the battle against terrorism.

"We have not identified a single instance involving a threat to the United States in which the program made a concrete difference in the outcome of a counterterrorism investigation," writes the board, which reviews actions taken by the government to protect the country from terrorism.

The report credits the NSA with thwarting just one potential supporter of terrorists: San Diego cab driver Basaaly Moalin, a Somali immigrant who was convicted of sending $8,500 to the Islamist group al-Shabaab last year.

The board notes that while there was "critical value" in stopping the funds, Moalin's case was the only instance in seven years of NSA surveillance in which the program helped tip off authorities. Even then, the board suggests, the FBI could have found Moalin without the NSA's help. The NSA also could have received the same information without invasive bulk data collection, according to the report.

The findings, laid out in a 238-page document, will inevitably spark greater debate in an arena already rife with friction over the merits and legality of the program. Federal judges are currently sparring over the massive phone record collections and debating whether such surveillance is necessary or "Orwellian."

The report hinges on Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows federal investigators to request records relevant to an authorized national security investigation, but not the bulk collection of information that "cannot be regarded as 'relevant.' "

The panel argues the NSA's tracking program "bears almost no resemblance" to the descriptions listed in the law and concluded that it “lacks a viable legal foundation under Section 215, implicates constitutional concerns under the First and Fourth Amendments, raises serious threats to privacy and civil liberties as a policy matter, and has shown only limited value.”

The program has “contributed only minimal value in combating terrorism beyond what the government already achieves through these and other alternative means,” according to the report.

Yet despite its damning review, the panel was not unanimous on the issue of ending this type of data collection. Two members—Rachel L. Brand and Elisebeth Collins Cook, who served in the Justice Department during George W. Bush’s administration—argued the program should continue, if modified, to address greater privacy protections.

Brand writes:

"...[T]he government does not collect the content of any communication under this program. It does not collect any personally identifying information associated with the calls. And it does not collect cell site information that could closely pinpoint the location from which a cell phone call was made. The program is literally a system of numbers with no names attached to any of them. As such, it does not sweep in the most sensitive and revealing information about telephone communications. This seems to have gotten lost in the public debate."

Supporters of the NSA program agree with Brand and Cook, arguing that the board should not participate in “unwarranted legal analysis.”

“As those of us with law enforcement experience know, successful investigations use all available tools—there often is ‘no silver bullet’ that alone thwarts a plot,” Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich., chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, told The Washington Post.

The power of the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board lies in its recommendations—the agency holds no legal power and can only advise the government on the best ways to put policies and regulations into practice without trampling on civil liberties and privacy.

“Cessation of the program would eliminate the privacy and civil liberties concerns associated with bulk collection without unduly hampering the government’s efforts,” the board writes, “while ensuring that any governmental requests for telephone calling records are tailored to the needs of specific investigations.”

The board's landmark statements coincide with President Barack Obama's recent speech calling for modest changes to the NSA's call tracking program, as well as a separate set of harsh recommendations from a White House–appointed review panel in December.

While the new report staunchly opposes third-party involvement with the database, the panels agreed that the government would still have the capability to obtain phone records through traditional court orders.

The panel’s recommendation to end the program takes things a step further than the president-appointed review panel, which suggested NSA data be taken out of government hands while still preserving the agency's power.

The government is reviewing whether telephone companies should hold the NSA data or if a third-party agency should be created to collect the information.

Though the board’s analysis can only urge the government to make changes, its report provides the information required for the NSA to explore its options while setting the tone for debates on NSA reform.
http://news.yahoo.com/nsa-spying-isn-39-t-just-illegal-invasion-193439815.html (http://news.yahoo.com/nsa-spying-isn-39-t-just-illegal-invasion-193439815.html)
Title: Finland No. 1, US sinks to 46th in global press freedom rankings
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 12, 2014, 07:02:02 PM
Quote
Finland No. 1, US sinks to 46th in global press freedom rankings
By Olivier Knox, Yahoo News  4 hours ago


(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/FVpOpuYhyxHKlAnQJ1TmmA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTgwMDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz0xMTA2/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/eba12472f6218502490f6a706700bc73.jpg)
In this image made from video released by WikiLeaks on Friday, Oct. 11, 2013, former National Security Agency systems analyst Edward Snowden speaks during a presentation ceremony for the Sam Adams Award in Moscow, Russia. Should Snowden ever return to the U.S., he would face criminal charges for leaking information about NSA surveillance programs. But legal experts say a trial could expose more classified information as his lawyers try to build a case in an open court that the operations he exposed were illegal. (AP Photo)



The United States did not live up to the promise of the First Amendment last year, “far from it,” sinking to 46th in global press freedom rankings, a respected international nonprofit group said Wednesday.

The U.S. plummeted 13 slots to 46th overall “amid increased efforts to track down whistle-blowers and the sources of leaks,” Reporters Without Borders warned in an annual report.

“The trial and conviction of Private Bradley Manning and the pursuit of NSA analyst Edward Snowden were warnings to all those thinking of assisting in the disclosure of sensitive information that would clearly be in the public interest,” the organization said.

The group, known by its French initials, RSF, also cited the Department of Justice’s seizure of Associated Press telephone records and a court’s pressure on New York Times reporter James Risen to testify against a CIA staffer accused of leaking classified information.

“The whistle-blower is clearly the enemy in the U.S.,” Delphine Halgand, who heads the RSF outpost in Washington, told Yahoo News. “Eight whistle-blowers have been charged under the Obama administration, the highest number of any administration, of all other administrations combined.”

It’s “a clear strategy of the administration” to “avoid any other version than the official version on what the administration is doing,” Halgand said.

Overall, RSF said in its report, “countries that pride themselves on being democracies and respecting the rule of law have not set an example, far from it.”

“Freedom of information is too often sacrificed to an overly broad and abusive interpretation of national security needs, marking a disturbing retreat from democratic practices. Investigative journalism often suffers as a result,” the group said.

So who does a better job than the U.S. of protecting press freedoms?

Here, in order of rank, starting with No. 1 Finland: Finland, the Netherlands, Norway, Luxembourg, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Denmark, Iceland, New Zealand, Sweden, Estonia, Austria, Czech Republic, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, Jamaica, Canada, Poland, Slovakia, Costa Rica, Namibia, Belgium, Cape Verde, Cyprus, Uruguay, Ghana, Australia, Belize, Portugal, Suriname, Lithuania, Britain, Slovenia, Spain, Antigua and Barbuda, Latvia, El Salvador, France, Samoa, Botswana, South Africa, Trinidad and Tobago, Papua New Guinea and Romania.

Italy was 49th. Israel was 96th. Afghanistan was 128th. Russia was 148th. China was 175th.
http://news.yahoo.com/finland--1--us-sinks-to-46th-in-global-press-freedom-rankings-145044630.html (http://news.yahoo.com/finland--1--us-sinks-to-46th-in-global-press-freedom-rankings-145044630.html)
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: gwillybj on February 12, 2014, 07:59:18 PM
These I find intriguing as to how high they placed: those of the former USSR, from the former Czechoslovakia, and from central Africa. But I don't find them as a big surprise in the list. Of course, quite a few years have passed since major social and political changes were made in those countries.
Title: Re: Fight The System
Post by: Geo on February 13, 2014, 04:21:04 PM
I'm a bit surprised to see four former Soviet republics before my country on the list as well.
OTOH, I'm surprised as well for a large country (population wise) as Germay reach a whopping 14 on the list.
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