Alpha Centauri 2

Community => Recreation Commons => Topic started by: Rusty Edge on January 05, 2023, 12:24:28 AM

Title: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 05, 2023, 12:24:28 AM
Another day and no Speaker of the House, they are supposed to vote some more tonight.
This means they can't do anything until that problem is solved. No swearing in of new members of Congress, no votes on
anything, including rules. All they can do is vote for Speaker and agree to adjourn. It could continue indefinitely, because it's kinda like having a government shutdown without the constituent heat, and many of them supported that.

Republicans have a narrow majority, but about 20 of them don't want Kevin McCarthy as the new Speaker. Many of them are in the Freedom Caucus, plus Mat Gaetz and Lauren Boebert. They don't want the Democrats in control, but 6 or 8 are Never McCarthy people, and McCarthy can only spare about 5 votes at most. They say McCarthy lied to, and about them, so they'll never give him their vote.

So it's up to McCarthy at this point. He can butt heads, or deal with the Democrats, or become a kingmaker, or pack up and go home.

Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 05, 2023, 02:07:13 AM
Well, most of the House returned at 8PM EST to resume selecting a speaker.  Until one is chosen, a clerk presides over The Congress.

Somebody asked for a voice vote to adjourn until noon tomorrow. Presumably this was someone on the pro-McCarthy side, stalling for time for McCarthy to get his ducks in a row. Nobody could tell from the voice vote whether voting or adjournment had more support, so a roll call vote was asked for.

At first the 20 Republicans seemed to be refraining from voting, as the McCarthy people were voting to adjourn and the Jeffries people (Democrats) voting to vote while they were there and hopefully forcing the process forward. Then the 20 started voting, most of them getting votes in before the deadline. The Neas appeared to win the vote by two at the deadline, but some of the votes changed and they started going home. Then the presiding Clerk ruled that the Ayes had it. I'm not sure that the clerk handled that correctly. I think they were being too lenient. Since it was an adjournment vote rather than a Speaker vote it's not a big deal, but I hope she does better going forward.

It is pointed out that in the final count 4 of the 20 voted Nea, so they are the hardliner Never Kevins. So McCarthy has to work on 16 of them. If he gets most of them, some may vote "present" to save face and not be flip-floppers. But he can't have many "present" votes because it lowers the threshold for a Jeffries win.


Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 05, 2023, 02:39:29 AM
I can't say I want those KKKlowns to get organized, but this is not a sign of/conducive to good government.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 05, 2023, 06:11:57 PM
It's all well and fine until there's a national or international emergency.

Matt Gaetz just gave [Sleezebag] his first vote for speaker. So, 1 vote for [Sleezebag] and 17 votes for Donalds ( a second term Rep from Florida). McCarthy can only afford 4 votes from Republicans for others. He's not going to get there. If he wants to be speaker he has to deal with the Democrats.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 05, 2023, 06:18:01 PM
I like the thought of him being bound by a few promises, there...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 05, 2023, 08:01:38 PM
McCarthy lost his 8th round, in spite of [Sleezebag]'s endorsement and phone calls on his behalf. Actually it's up to 21 GOP votes note being cast for McCarthy.

I'm guessing he'll try for another adjournment next, but if a handful of Republicans smell blood and side with the Democrats to prevent that, we'll have more ballots until they get tired or hungry.

Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 05, 2023, 10:11:06 PM
They're voting for the tenth time.

The chaos caucus is thriving in the spotlight.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 05, 2023, 11:03:17 PM
Green-Bobert-Gaetz?

GOD am I glad that at least the Hitler Youth Kid is no longer on that list.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 06, 2023, 01:19:30 AM
Green-Bobert-Gaetz?

GOD am I glad that at least the Hitler Youth Kid is no longer on that list.

Well, Green was bought by McCarthy with a comittee assignment. Previously she had been stripped for I forget what. Supporting the insurrection? Insisting that the California wildfires were caused by the Jewish space lasers? I forget what the last straw was on her list of outrageous claims. Some such.

Bobert and Gaetz are leading the get Kevin crusade. They are all enjoying the spotlight. Probably fundraising off of it.
As Tim Miller, ( formerly Jeb Bush's communications director) described them -"grifters and performance artists"

Motion to Adjourn carried after the eleventh vote. It was close, appearing to be nay by voice vote, but when called to confirm electronically, the GOP swing block chose to adjourn for more negotiations.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 06, 2023, 01:59:39 AM
AND ANOTHER THING

It's all well and fine for the January 6th Committee to recommend indictments for [Sleezebag], Rudi, John Eastman, Mark Meadows, and Jeffry Clark.
It's great that hundreds of Proud Boys and Oath Keepers have been prosecuted.

What about the co-conspirators in between? The Secret Service who failed to stuff [Sleezebag] in the suburban and drive him to a secure location the moment they saw guns in the crowd?  What about Roger Stone who coordinated with the militia groups?
What about propagandists like Steve Banon who knew about it in advance? What about Ginny Thomas, wife of Supreme court Justice Clarence Thomas, who raised the money to bus the crowds to the Elipse so that they could attend the rally for free?
What about that rat-[progeny of unmarried parents] senator of mine who delivered false electoral ballots to the capitol that day? Or the other polliticians and lawyers directly involved and in the know?

You can have a lying loser presidential candidate, and you can have some angry racist militias, but without all of the middle management work of the collaborators and coordinators, you got a loser throwing a plate of cheeseburger and fries at the wall in the White House, and a bunch of thugs bitchin in their beers around the country.

I'd like to see them prosecuted, and if there's not enough evidence to take it to a jury, have them placed on the no fly list.
Consequences.
Otherwise, it's not a failed coup, it's a training exercise.  [END RANT]
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 06, 2023, 02:15:50 AM
Just this week, Mark Meadows got away with registering to vote in three states.

I'd be surprised and happy if any but the soldiers who rioted and killed the cops and crapped on desks were prosecuted.  It doesn't really matter if anyone is punished, as such - just that to function as a society, we need the deterrent against doing treason.  Gotta put the murder treasoners in jail for long terms, from the top down.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 06, 2023, 02:23:31 AM
-Or there will never be an end to it.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on January 06, 2023, 10:27:38 AM
Tell me, if during one of those Speaker ballots a dozen or so Republicans in Congress voted for Jeffries, and the Democrats there too, would he become Speaker of Congress? Or is it only a vote for or against a proposed Speaker (McCarthy)
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 06, 2023, 03:51:24 PM
I'm sure it's open to all.

Lauren [giggle] Bobert was nominated yesterday.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 06, 2023, 04:51:03 PM
This is Ms. Boebert:


(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA1624fa.img?w=768&h=512&m=6&x=16&y=84&s=520&d=479)


She's the worst -or at least in four-way tie- person in congress, now that the Hitler Youth Kid is gone.

[She wouldn't be at all bad-looking if she ever shut her fool mouth.]
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 07, 2023, 02:54:30 AM
Tell me, if during one of those Speaker ballots a dozen or so Republicans in Congress voted for Jeffries, and the Democrats there too, would he become Speaker of Congress? Or is it only a vote for or against a proposed Speaker (McCarthy)

Oh, it's an open election requiring a majority of votes cast. It is also a public Republican faction fight.

It's been suggested that the Democrats should have offered committee chairmanships to the first 6 Republicans to vote for Jeffries.

Regardless, yesterday McCarthy was losing votes compared to the first ballot, today he is gaining votes. He could possibly win tonight. The smaller the opposition faction gets, the more pressure he can concentrate on it. Or he may hit the plate glass ceiling.


 
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 07, 2023, 04:40:59 AM
McCarthy's proclamations were either premature or a great big "KICK ME" sign.
Boebert voted present, taking as they say, the "off ramp"
Gaetz wasn't present for the first roll call, but pulled the rug out from under McCarthy at the last second. Charlie Brown making field goal attempts comes to mind.
Somebody confronted Gaetz and had to be drug away before he could put hands on him.

While they were voting to adjourn, McCarthy and Gaetz were chatting and smiling, then suddenly all of McCarthy's cronies grabbed red slips to change their adjournment votes to No at the last second.

So.... will Charlie kick that field goal tonight?

Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 07, 2023, 12:46:09 PM
Kevin McCarthy elected 55th House speaker, quashes GOP rebellion with major concessions (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kevin-mccarthy-elected-55th-house-speaker-quashes-gop-rebellion-with-major-concessions/ar-AA164uuU?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=21d1d975e1bb4256b532ff9fe6ca701b)
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on January 07, 2023, 06:59:15 PM
Tell me, if during one of those Speaker ballots a dozen or so Republicans in Congress voted for Jeffries, and the Democrats there too, would he become Speaker of Congress? Or is it only a vote for or against a proposed Speaker (McCarthy)
It's been suggested that the Democrats should have offered committee chairmanships to the first 6 Republicans to vote for Jeffries.


Let's see... the committee for Energy Resources, Judiciary, Armed Services, Tax Revenues, Ways&Means, and Oversight Committee.
What'do ya think? Would that have done the trick.  :-\
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 07, 2023, 07:48:57 PM
Ethics.

-I don't know that there's much prestige attached, but chair of that committee is gonna be an important job for the KKKrime Party...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 08, 2023, 12:08:29 AM
Tell me, if during one of those Speaker ballots a dozen or so Republicans in Congress voted for Jeffries, and the Democrats there too, would he become Speaker of Congress? Or is it only a vote for or against a proposed Speaker (McCarthy)
It's been suggested that the Democrats should have offered committee chairmanships to the first 6 Republicans to vote for Jeffries.


Let's see... the committee for Energy Resources, Judiciary, Armed Services, Tax Revenues, Ways&Means, and Oversight Committee.
What'do ya think? Would that have done the trick.  :-\

Probably not. The current GOP seems to think that the only thing worse than a Democrat is a traitor, which is what they call Republicans who work with Democrats. Liz Cheney was the #3 Republican in The House, but once she worked with the January 6th Committee she was shunned. Same foe Adam Kinzinger, also on the committee. Likewise, all of the Republicans in The House who voted for [Sleezebag]'s impeachment have either been defeated or forced into retirement. Not that retirement is terrible. They keep their pay and healthcare (last I heard). But anybody that crosses the line knows the cost, and most aren't willing to pay the price.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 08, 2023, 12:28:37 AM
Profiles in Courage, that.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 13, 2023, 06:48:21 PM
Just FYI - I'd totally be up for politics talk w/ sane grownups right now, just not thinking of a topic...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 13, 2023, 09:12:47 PM
Maybe.

 My mother-in-law has changed status from assisted living to nursing home within the complex, so I am on demand for moving between wings. Some of that will be shuffling stuff within the complex, the surplus will need to be packed and brought here until it is redistributed within the family, sent to GoodWill, or disposed of. My wife is coordinating with her nieces, I need to find and buy some storage totes. Looks like things are happening sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 13, 2023, 10:03:22 PM
Busy - family duty is important.  Got it.  God luck and Salute.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 15, 2023, 06:14:32 AM
Well, it was a long, hard, day which taxed my balance and back, and I was mostly working solo. It was productive. Among other things I packaged and relocated to my home "temporarily" a Highlander full of stuff. My back is feeling better now...unless I move. Anyway, I've got some time tonight.

I'd like to praise Joe Biden for a moment. Not because he's an interesting speaker, because I think he's lacking in that regard, but because he's kind of a symbol of what I thought most politicians used to be over the course of my life.

He's somebody who cares and has a vision of how to make things better and works towards that, even if he has to compromise to do it, even if he has to work with people he usually disagrees with or finds disagreeable.

The moment in my life of which I was the proudest of my government was the Souter confirmation hearings, which Joe Biden chaired. I listened to them on NPR while I worked in the barn or in a tractor cab. Sure, there was a lot of innuendo and the Republicans tended to support Souter and the Democrats oppose him based on their suspicions of his true views. But on the whole I thought the questioning was polite and thoughtful, and Judge Souter's answers more so. In the opening remarks to the confirmation hearings for the next Justice Biden stated that he thought that Souter got the best of him, and he was going to change his approach. Souter had a reputation as a swing vote and a thoughtful justice rather than a reactionary. What I think all justices should be, but I digress. I think Biden was probably much more pleased with him than Orin Hatch was. I think it's an example of how Biden made government work and work well.

Some are calling his recent speech was the greatest State of the Union address ever. Not because of his prepared remarks, but because of how he turned the tables on the hecklers such as Marjorie Taylor Greene, and forced Republican members of Congress to express support for Social Security and Medicare. We always used to call that the ""3rd rail of American politics"  because touching it would result in instant death.

I don't think Biden gets enough credit. Therse's been a pandemic combined with open warfare in Europe. Last time that happened the USA had double-digit inflation for 4 consecutive years, and we were still on the silver standard! We're doing better than that this time and we're doing better than the rest of the world. Lowest unemployment rate since when? '69 or '70? Oh, and thanks for the infrastructure!
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 15, 2023, 03:24:47 PM
Briefly -I'm still waking up- I think Biden is mediocre, and his career before Pres. was of a hack w/ no particular convictions.

That said?  I LOVE President Biden.  I love how he was elected by a majority.  I love how he pulls on his Big-Boy pants every morning and tries to Do The Job.  -And the old-school attitude you elaborate on, having a conciliatory attitude and Getting Stuff Done?  I think nazis are for defeating, but the old school attitude was there before Reagan because. it. WORKS.


I've also found Joe far less Republican Lite than his history would lead you to expect - like he's a rare specimen who compromised long to get where he is now, and is rare in not getting lost.  He sucks, I wanted Bernie or Dr. Liz and he was forced on me, but he could have been SO much worse, instead of good, which he is.


Luv ya, Bo Jiden.  Fer realz.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Unorthodox on February 15, 2023, 03:38:46 PM
I think Biden is mediocre

I thought that was what he RAN ON last election.  "Vote for mediocre me."  "Make Meh great again"  etc. 
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 15, 2023, 03:46:43 PM
;lol
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 15, 2023, 10:23:33 PM
Got some time to assemble a cut n' paste  of Stuart Steven's ( author of "It was all a Lie- How the Republican Party became Donald [Sleezebag]") take on Nikki Haley's announcement that she's running for president from a Lincoln Project e-mail I got today

[Announcing a Presidential campaign on Valentine’s Day hours after a mass shooting? Sounds about right for Nikki Haley.

No political figure better illustrates the moral collapse of the modern Republican Party than Nikki Haley. There was a time not very long ago when she was everything the party thought it needed to win.

When Donald [Sleezebag] ran in the 2016 Republican primary, Haley stood next to Senator Marco Rubio, the candidate she had endorsed, and eviscerated [Sleezebag] as a racist the party must reject.

At the time, she sold herself as courageous, someone who would always fight for principle and never back down. And back down she did.

She transformed herself to oppose everything she once claimed to support. Even while [Sleezebag] ran a Presidential campaign degrading women and minorities, she took a coveted spot in the cabinet. And as the years went by, she began embracing her inner MAGA.

After famously taking down the Confederate flag from the South Carolina State House, the Trumpified Nikki Haley began to defend the so-called “heritage” of the flag. And as [Sleezebag] put his bigotry into real policy,  Haley continued to defend his work on the world stage, further degrading America in front of its allies and enemies.

Her rise and fall only highlights what many of us already knew: [Sleezebag] didn’t change the Republican Party; he revealed it.

We’ve seen [Sleezebag] break candidates in the primary before. But now Haley is entering the race already broken.

She will never be the voice of truth she briefly was in 2016, and despite her years of attempts to win over the MAGA base, she will never win this primary. But no one should feel sorry for Nikki Haley. It was her choice.

Now, the female star of the Republican Party isn’t the daughter of immigrants who took down the Confederate flag. It’s Marjorie Taylor Greene, who sells Christian nationalist memorabilia and is now arguably the second-most powerful member of the House.

So let Nikki Haley parade around, claiming to be the “future of the Republican Party.” She represents nothing other than its moral rot. And to anyone thinking she can win?

Foolish thinking. ]


I remember a Nikki interview where she told about other women describing her as ambitious, and she explained that she wasn't . Rather, she was passionate, which always led to greater roles and responsibilities.

Nah... she's ambitious. If she were passionate about what she said she believed she would have drawn the line somewhere and invoked the 25th Amendment.

Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 12:30:35 AM
I have at least that much to say about her - and I'm multi-tasking, trying to catch up from supper.  Later, maybe, tomorrow maybe.  I can copy/paste what I told a foreigner on SKype this afternoon if a find a half hour...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on February 16, 2023, 01:47:02 AM
The central problem is that performative cultural outrage, now quite bigoted, has become the most valuable commodity for winning the primary elections that enable these people to continue having careers, and, almost as important, relevance, which we have seen is worth any and every sacrifice in their eyes.

I also believe there must be a distorting effect of their interaction with so many of the MAGA rank-and-file. "If so many people believe this so passionately, maybe it's OK for me to be their tribune."

Fortunately, voters seem to want more than that. Speaking as a liberal, hopefully Ron DeSantis has trouble shopping his uniquely retributive brand of fascist parking lot politics outside the state of Florida where older folks have so many cultural axes to grind.

I feel like there's a whole population in this country that has given up on politics as proble-solving. So they just vote for politicians who will entertain and validate them. People who were just happy somebody as outwardly successful as Donald [Sleezebag] was praising them, even if they didn't trust him to do anything.

But now, we all live in our own little bubble. If our guy is driving the bus, we don't sweat the small stuff. I think Republicans assume the economy is worse under a Democrat, whether that is true or not, which helps to prevent people from fleeing a sinking ship.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 02:35:25 AM
...Liberal?  Aren't you a conservative -not reactionary- Republican w/ sense?...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 04:35:36 AM
Nikki Hailey is totally vice-presidential material, by the way.

A 'Merican with a little sense told you so.

She's the right age, yes, has checked off a big qualification on the checklist - Governor of somewhere, also who'd worked for the "president" as ambassador to UN.  But hasn't pulled a hitch in the national legislature.  Bit of a nazi, but not capital N.  She's also an empty suit.  She'd look pretty standing behind the Candidate, and check off the ethnic token box the pro Republicans like to check in their eternal struggle to live down being the racist party.  Perfect for VP, bad for president.

So, Sarah Palin advantages-plus, and little of the downside, that Palin's unfit to be a public figure, less be in public service.

Nikki won't humiliate herself in the VP debate, but then Palin didn't.

Mike Pence?  Huge empty suit.  Pig never expected any spine, any line beneath which he Would Not Stoop.

I think that's actually fair to Pence.  He was VP because he was SO unthreatening.

Nikki is pretty for a woman her age, at least, and doesn't show her ass every time she opens her mouth.

Palin DOES have charisma beyond being breathtakingly good-looking for a granny who doesn't look like she's trying hard.  When she walked over to Biden before the debate, looking all wasp-wasted and tiny next to him and asked "Is it okay if I call you Joe?" that didn't seem intended for the microphones?  Actual charm beyond looks.

Pity she's ignorant and actually stupid.

[Euro respondent has never heard Palin speak]

She has this north border accent -I think her family was from Montanna, before Alaska, the accent sounds Wiscaaansen to me- that just sounds stupid.  Then what she says is stupid.

*Wisconsin - phonetic spelling that means nothing to you, ok.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 12:57:40 PM
Let me add, original comment following on that - it all speaks to a profound systemic flaw -very much also on the part of sundry nominees- that we are offered Mike Pence, Sarah Palin, Dan Quayle, Joe Biden, for that matter, as VP candidates, none of whom look like much of anyone's idea of a possible President.  THAT's plum tragic, it is, because some of them actually go on to be President, Joe, all on the strength of a nominee picked them largely for being no threat.  BAD juju.


Contra what I said on Skype, Nikki isn't VP material - she's running mate material.  There's a profound difference.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Unorthodox on February 16, 2023, 01:49:29 PM
Aren't you a conservative -not reactionary- Republican w/ sense?...

That's enough to get you labeled liberal these days. 
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 02:25:18 PM
By the Nazis, sure.

Buster's Daddy went to reactionary seminaries, got first-hand experience of that, and thinks he's not one of them now.  He was never even a labor liberal like me, and we're a social conservative family.  Man, he knows Greek and Hebrew, written, now, and I can't discuss theology with him the last 15 years unless I feel content to ask questions and just listen, the arrogant SOB.




That's ugly hateful bullcrap, Reagan turning Liberal into an insult word.  They don't even call themselves that anymore, having just plain lost that battle.  The real liberals are "Progressive" now.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 02:40:44 PM
A note on a Biden phail you won't expect?  When he ran for Vice President, I was shocked, Shocked, I tell you, that Joe is charming.  He did it with a big grin on his face, then as actual Vice President, like it's only Vice President and he wasn't trying to be taken seriously.  Grave, GRAVE basic error on his part as Congressman, running for President the first time, being President this time, that he puts away -consciously, it has to be- that grin and that charm to try to seem sober-somber and respectable.


He'd be an infinitely stronger President with that grin showing more often.  I like him way better smiling.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on February 16, 2023, 04:48:07 PM
He'd be an infinitely stronger President with that grin showing more often.  I like him way better smiling.


Now there's a reason fanmail exists...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 04:58:50 PM

Well, I threw it out in public, and you never know...





Another random thought:  Kudos to the long list of people who had the guts or whatever to quit on The Don -maffia, and hey I just coined a good one on the fly- the day after Nazi Wednesday.  It wasn't two weeks early, and only a gesture, thus, but a VERY VERY important one, those being in short supply in the aftermath.  Who knew Betsey Vos, in particular had it in her?  They'll all always be stained by having been in the same room with him at all twice, but it hints that many are the rat sorbet of fascists - they've got less Nazi...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 16, 2023, 05:39:41 PM
The central problem is that performative cultural outrage, now quite bigoted, has become the most valuable commodity for winning the primary elections that enable these people to continue having careers, and, almost as important, relevance, which we have seen is worth any and every sacrifice in their eyes.


I feel like there's a whole population in this country that has given up on politics as proble-solving. So they just vote for politicians who will entertain and validate them. People who were just happy somebody as outwardly successful as Donald [Sleezebag] was praising them, even if they didn't trust him to do anything.

Not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg, or if the problem is that we have so many choices we can choose our own facts. But when you put it all together it results in big, big trouble.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 16, 2023, 05:49:55 PM
Let me add, original comment following on that - it all speaks to a profound systemic flaw -very much also on the part of sundry nominees- that we are offered Mike Pence, Sarah Palin, Dan Quayle, Joe Biden, for that matter, as VP candidates, none of whom look like much of anyone's idea of a possible President.  THAT's plum tragic, it is, because some of them actually go on to be President, Joe, all on the strength of a nominee picked them largely for being no threat.  BAD juju.


Contra what I said on Skype, Nikki isn't VP material - she's running mate material.  There's a profound difference.

I expect that Kerri Lake will be [Sleezebag]'s running mate. She's great on camera, she's pretty, she's from a swing state and when it comes to an interview, a debate or the 2020 presidential election she's not hampered by the facts or principles. She was the most Trumpian political figure pre-George Santos.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 06:11:39 PM
Mafia Don won't have a running mate.

If Nikki was truly sharp -have I said this in public before?- the day that kid shot up the church, she'd have taken three state troopers out front of whatever building she actually worked in as SC Governor, and had that Confederate Flag down instanter.  Had a staffer 'leak' to the media about 15 minutes notice.  She might have already been President by now, if she was that sharp.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 17, 2023, 02:38:21 PM
Mylochka -who is just old enough to faintly recall Kennedy's head blowing up, and Watergate far better than I do (which is all anyone talked about in 1974, even nine year-olds)- said recently that Nazi Wednesday was the most important thing to happen in US politics in her lifetime, 61.25 years now.

I'll add on to that, possibly the most important thing to happen in politics in the world, bar the Soviet Union having a BAD 1991.

Reactions?
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on February 17, 2023, 04:58:34 PM
I'll add on to that, possibly the most important thing to happen in politics in the world, bar the Soviet Union having a BAD 1991.

Reactions?


There's plenty more important things that happened in the world. Even politically. But then again, I'm from the other side of the Atlantic.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 17, 2023, 05:12:07 PM
And you weren't watching in shock on TV, Nazi Wednesday and after while some third world crap went down HERE?  The US going sour is everybody's problem, now, isn't it?
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 18, 2023, 02:21:04 AM
I don't know if it counts as political, but offhand I'd say that the diplomatic resolution of the Cuban Missile crisis was a biggie in global terms. Or at least the Northern Hemisphere.

But I was too young to be scared. After that, yeah, I'd say that 1991 was the biggy. And Nazi Wednesday was the scariest.
Imagine the USA changing sides in Ukraine. Totalitarians gotta stick together.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 18, 2023, 02:33:25 AM
On a lighter note- When this George Santos character was elected and entered the spotlight I said if he's as bad a liar as they say, I'm sure his financial disclosure and other federal election commission filings are fraudulent- just prosecute him for that.

But the more we know about him, the more entertaining it gets. Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy and GOP star Marjorie Taylor Greene are defending him. It looks like not only is he a Brazilian fugitive who grifted the Amish out of puppies, but he also is a cross-dressing gay who had a sham marriage to bring a woman into the country illegally. Sounds like a poster-child for the new GOP.

What it tells me is what I've thought for some time (confirmation bias?) - they stand for nothing but the ruthless pursuit of power and schadenfreude.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 18, 2023, 03:02:43 AM
Yes, that, most assuredly.

And I'll concede the Cuban Missile Crisis -political, her lifetime, all lives everywhere directly at stake>Nazi Wednesday.  Not, however, MY lifetime or even this century, and the point still stands within that moved goalpost.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 18, 2023, 03:12:34 AM
Still, yes, within the original parameters I laid out, those darn Russians push Nazi Wednesday to third place.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on February 18, 2023, 04:34:35 PM
And you weren't watching in shock on TV, Nazi Wednesday and after while some third world crap went down HERE?  The US going sour is everybody's problem, now, isn't it?


Let's say I wasn't shocked. And not really surprised either. There's plenty more violent news comin' out of the US. Monthly shootings, police violence. Absurdities on the ecomanagement level...
The US goin' sour isn't a problem to entities like the Kremlin, North-Korea, China, Iran,...  :-*
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 18, 2023, 04:43:37 PM
Nobody in the world's safe from a US gone stupid enough, fair to say?
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on February 18, 2023, 05:04:13 PM
Nobody in the world's safe from a US gone stupid enough, fair to say?


The same counts for a couple other state powers. Either because of weaponry they possess or their economy is big enough to affect the planet.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 18, 2023, 06:53:20 PM
Sure.

I don't care to be stuck on the same planet as contemporary Russia, wouldn't care for Great Britain gone any more Boris-stupid than it already is, not least for its leadership/influence of/on the Commonwealth nations, not in love with de Gaulle's France, even.  Wish Israel didn't have the bomb, and I'm pro Israel. Wish nobody did.

Wish there were no guns or explosives in the middle east.  Or anywhere but engineering projects anywhere, on the latter.


 ;notes;  Imagine there's no Heaven ;notes;
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on February 20, 2023, 07:21:26 AM
...Liberal?  Aren't you a conservative -not reactionary- Republican w/ sense?...

I'm a registered Republican, but I've voted Democrat in every election since 2016 and I have no truck with the Republican social agenda.

I was a Rockefeller Republican, in it for the defense spending and the Iraq War. I favored McCain over Obama, but Obama over Romney in 2012 on the basis that the former didn't seem to understand life for the average American.

These days, I can't stomach Republicans of any kind, least of all [Sleezebag] and DeSantis. I've grown rather fond of Joe Biden, who once I liked least among all Democrats over his opposition to American intervention in Africa during the 1970s.

Put simply, Republican politics hurt too many people I care deeply about, and more intangible political goals have grown less important to me than that.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 20, 2023, 06:51:12 PM
Brother, I thought Reagan started things OFF a step or two too far -Rusty feels somewhat that way too- but I welcome you off that bus when they got stuck with an especially trashy celebrity's look-at-me joke of a campaign accidentally took off.  Better late than never.  I bet you weren't a fan of the Cheney Bund, either, but I 'spect that was before you were 18.  You look that young.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on February 21, 2023, 02:08:50 AM
Actually, I quote liked George W. Bush and did support his second candidacy. (I was too young the first time.)

George W. Bush's presidency was a failure on its own terms, and I think he actually recognizes it to a degree, but I was there for it. Primarily because I shared the perspective that both Cheney and Rumsfeld attest to in their autobiographies, which is that our national threat appetite needed a seismic shift in reference points after 9/11.

Still, Rumsfeld (and, by extension, Bush as the accountable Chief Executive) deserve heaps of blame for the mismanagement of the post-war reconstruction in Iraq and the utter deterioration of the Afghanistan occupation. Biden, by contrast, deserves enormous credit for having the personal and political courage to admit reality (what a concept!) and withdraw from a situation Americans were never willing to spend enough blood and treasure to rectify.

These days, my hawkishness is satisfied by Biden's rather expert marshaling of Western support for the defense of Ukraine.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 21, 2023, 02:14:54 AM
Torture is not the American Way, sir.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on February 21, 2023, 02:16:59 AM
I didn't say I'd support him again today.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 21, 2023, 02:24:04 AM
That's right on about Biden showing guts to leave Afghanistan.  That there was an extremely nasty Vietnamese Monkey Trap we done caught ourselves in fo' twenny years.  No way to let go the banana w/o getting cut pulling our hand free.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Elok on February 22, 2023, 01:54:28 AM
Mylochka -who is just old enough to faintly recall Kennedy's head blowing up, and Watergate far better than I do (which is all anyone talked about in 1974, even nine year-olds)- said recently that Nazi Wednesday was the most important thing to happen in US politics in her lifetime, 61.25 years now.

I'll add on to that, possibly the most important thing to happen in politics in the world, bar the Soviet Union having a BAD 1991.

Reactions?
Assuming you don't count [Sleezebag] actually winning the 2016 election as one singular "thing," possibly.  1/6, whatever you call it, was shocking, but it's not clear that Donald will face consequences for it even now.  He could actually be re-elected, sad to say.  Which is its own kind of "consequence," and will teach the wrong kind of lesson.  But it might be more like Iran-Contra, where it seems like it should be kind of a big deal (technically the US government committed treason, whoopsie!) but I imagine the average college student today wouldn't be able to coherently define it.  All the Snowden-type revelations were also concerning, possibly more so to me than 1/6, but it's not clear to me that we've done anything about them.  1/6 might simply fade into memory.  A lot depends on if DeSantis is able to shove [Sleezebag] off the road, I guess.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 22, 2023, 02:07:56 AM
Never forget Nazi Wednesday.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Elok on February 22, 2023, 02:39:42 AM
Yeah, we said that about 9/11 too, and we haven't forgotten per se, but it's lost its immediate relevance and I can see the same thing happening to 1/6.  I wasn't alive for Watergate, but IIUC it's important because it changed the way a lot of Americans thought about the government, or some such.  1/6 ... didn't change much.  By that point we were already polarized, so that a third of the country said OMG how dare he a little harder and another third said OMG this is a false flag and I looked at it and said "so ... I guess this is a thing we're doing now.  Great."  Its most significant effect to date has been to make [Sleezebag] less credible as a future presidential candidate, though that could change.  [Sleezebag]'s rise and eventual election victory, by comparison, radically shifted the GOP in a way nobody had done since Reagan (whatever one thinks of Reagan).
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 22, 2023, 03:03:00 AM
One thinks Reagan was a sleezy bill of goods and an empty suit even before he went senile in office.

-And you're trying to let the bad guys off the hook again.


Permission to please forget that thing that happened in New York, however, granted.  I sorta thought remembering it was a terrible idea six months later.  Things that turn off all good sense and critical thought always are.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Elok on February 22, 2023, 01:06:57 PM
-And you're trying to let the bad guys off the hook again.
You're mistaking descriptive for prescriptive speech.  I'm not saying 1/6 should be forgotten, I'm saying it nearly has been and probably will be.  It's just one more outrageous and stupid thing associated with [Sleezebag].
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 22, 2023, 01:25:41 PM
Soft-peddling it has that effect.

They tried to take over the government on live TV, their revolution indeed being televised.  He egged them on before the fact, and only failed to take a more direct role in the multiple felony murders that followed because his Secret Service detail forced him to go home.  That has been well-documented.


That numerous major government figures were not in prison two years ago is a disgrace.  The lack of attention to these incontrovertible facts you rightly note, I can only account for as it's a hard thing to have had happen here that people don't want to look at, like so many modern Germans pointedly not talking about Hitler or even expressing German patriotism.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Elok on February 22, 2023, 05:40:36 PM
Back up a second.  You said "the most important thing to happen in American politics."  Important, to me, implies something that has a major effect, that changes things.  1/6, to all appearances, didn't.  It was shocking, it was revolting, it was unprecedented, and IIRC it killed four people, one of them a cop and the other three insurgents.  It was a cause for congressional hearings, the same as everything else that ever happens, and a bunch of people got arrested, and talk show hosts talked, and at the end of the day the main effect I could discern was that it somewhat tarnished [Sleezebag]'s never-clean brand.  Biden's still president and [Sleezebag] is hovering at the edge of our political awareness.  It's kind of like the Beer Hall Putsch, as evaluated two or three years later.  It might later look like a harbinger of things which actually are important, but important in itself?  Nah.  And [Sleezebag]'s no Hitler.  He was in power for four years and his Beer Hall Putsch was his final blunder on the way out the door.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 22, 2023, 06:37:08 PM
I somewhat agree, buuutt --- I'll only point out that Nazi Wednesday/Beerhall Putsch -nice comparison, BTW- was unprecedented here.


-And that the high officials/co conspirators/leaders who betrayed their oaths and the public trust getting away with treasonous felony, at least guilty of accessory-after-the-fact, has exactly the opposite implication of what you infer and imply.

Far from being a big nothing-burger all the getting away with it near guarantees that it will happen again.  Not good news, and I won't be surprised to be bringing this exchange up with you again in a few years.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 22, 2023, 09:43:47 PM
-See also what Dr. Pedantry blog said about P-something, the Greek w/ a giant girl dressed as Athena, also d00dz with clubs.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Elok on February 22, 2023, 09:51:13 PM
I doubt anything like 1/6 will happen in the nearish term, for the simple reason that 1/6 required a specific set of circumstances (including gross police incompetence) which are unlikely to be duplicated even in the broad outlines.  Various people egging it on or hushing it up is not really anything new or unexpected.  The intelligence community has been getting away for that for about as long as it's existed, for example.

I mean, tbh, the single thing that startled me most about 1/6 was the fact that this pack of ill-coordinated mouth-breathing zealots actually got into the Capitol.  You'd expect us to be more careful with an entire third of the federal government than we were with Charlottesville, for heaven's sake ... the part where a large pack of frothing delusional nutbars were gathered in the area and emotionally keyed up enough to make trouble, now, that wasn't news.  We'd known about that for weeks.  Might as well act shocked about a fight breaking out after a London soccer match.  I was actually pleasantly surprised (and, yes, amused) by the part where, when they got in, they just sorta bumbled around like Kipling's monkeys playing in the ruins.  Which in no way detracts from how terrifying it must have been for the elected representatives gathered there to do their constitutional duty, but even the BHP parallels only go so far.

The BHP was a farce, but it was plainly planned and organized, with an impractical but at least comprehensible path to victory--they were going to violently overthrow the government and establish a new one.  Inciting a riot and then hoping it will (by means unspecified, while you watch it on the news) make your problems go away is not an insurrection or a coup.  It's just another half-baked idea from Agent Orange.  I think we were surprised in large part because it was too stupid for a sensible person to anticipate.  I figured he was whipping up the crowd because he delusionally believed he had a much larger base of support and his enemies would bow to the popular will, or something.  The part where the mob would run around smashing the Capitol if allowed in would thus be a side effect (which would be moot because I figured the people in charge of security had half a brain).  It's entirely possible, knowing Donny, that even he didn't expect them to actually break through, but once they were through his childlike brain took it as a sure sign of victory and he decided to go with it.  Who knows.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Elok on February 22, 2023, 10:10:11 PM
-See also what Dr. Pedantry blog said about P-something, the Greek w/ a giant girl dressed as Athena, also d00dz with clubs.
Which was a poor parallel because this isn't an ancient Greek city-state but a country of several hundred million people.  There was a 0% chance that the mob storming the Capitol would have led to an outcome actually favorable to [Sleezebag].  The worst-case scenario--outright massacre of the entire Legislative Branch--would have been terrible for the country and possibly led to profound violence, but it still would not have put him in power.  Very likely he would have wound up dead.  Even the incompetent display we got hurt [Sleezebag]'s image, and led to an abundance of false-flag narratives when even the Trumpists realized it looked bad.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 22, 2023, 10:15:32 PM

His entire central point was that you can't allow a thug to just keep practicing coups until he wins.  P-whatsis did.


Who knows.
Who knows?

I swear that whatever the appearance, I'm not on about vengeance.  It's the deterrent effect, which is really all our sorry 'justice' system is any good for.  But it had to amount to treason and inciting to riot, what he did that day, and people were killed in the riot, and that makes him a murderer - and he'd already killed Mary Anne.

I dunno, man.  We're doomed if there isn't more justice.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Elok on February 22, 2023, 11:00:55 PM
His entire central point was that you can't allow a thug to just keep practicing coups until he wins.  P-whatsis did.
Well, as to that, I have two answers:
1. It's not clear to me (I mean legit not clear, as in maybe) that you could prove BARD that [Sleezebag] intended that crowd to do any specific thing when he egged them on.  Everything he said could be interpreted as a rhetorical flourish, and like I said, knowing [Sleezebag], it's not only possible but probable that he had no firm idea what he expected them to do!  The relevant train of thought may have been "big group of excited people on my side good," or some such.  Then when it happened he ... sat back and excitedly waited for them to, by some unfathomable mechanism, deliver him the election he'd lost months ago.  Which is grossly malfeasant and contemptible, but differs from active involvement.  Hard to prove, and I don't want to undermine due process just to nail his dumb ass.

2. No amount of practice could have made 1/6 succeed, and no amount of practice will give that dayglow manchild the kind of brain needed to pull off a real coup.  Someone like DeSantis might perhaps be smart enough, but he'd never be so crude, AFAICT, as to pull something like this.  An actual successful coup would heavily involve the military and intelligence communities--both of whom have been displaying some worrying tendencies in recent decades, but neither of which were involved in 1/6.  Which is why it doesn't worry me.  You wanna rein in the spooks or the military-industrial complex, now, I'm all for it.  Current book is all about them doing horrible things without supervision.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 22, 2023, 11:11:11 PM
Current reading?  Writing it sounds out of your line.

I don't really disagree with any of that, btw.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Elok on February 22, 2023, 11:20:15 PM
No, 2Sor was actually inspired by (among many other things) real-life instances of the espionage and military-industrial worlds going completely insane, starting with MKULTRA.  At the start of the book our country is subcontracting out to a guy with a family of magical child soldiers.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 23, 2023, 12:01:37 AM
subcontracting out  to a guy with a family of magical child soldiers.
LOVEly, that there is.  No WAY something horrific could go down.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 23, 2023, 02:47:10 PM
Note not irrelevant to the thread topic: China?  I've noticed, over my life, that it is often convenient to our government to be performatively riled up at some foreign entity - Japan, various actors in the Middle East, Libya, North Korea, Russia now, AND China lately and increasingly, w/ varying degrees of case-by-case justice to it, and thereby encourage the media to rile up the public.

I don't know how seriously to take various things the Chinese government has pulled in recent years -a great deal sounds extremely business-as-usual to me- but I'm merely pointing out that there's a domestic politics low-key Wag The Dog aspect that could be advantageous to whatever officials.  Who would care to wager with me that the China-is-horrible war rumblings are NOT at peak pitch late next year?

-This would also be convenient to CCP leaders to play their part right back.  Business as usual.-





(Russia would naturally be a better subject, but THAT appears to me all real, and not to be played with...)
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 23, 2023, 02:57:54 PM
Also -Have I ever said this in public?- nobody ever talks about that we were already in a war directly with China in the early 50s.  My dad had to pull a couple rotten Chinese bodies out of a Korean river.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on February 23, 2023, 04:51:33 PM
Are you hinting at the creation of a Democratic People's Republic of Ukraine? A bit late, the Russian Federation already annexed all possible parts of it.


Btw, weren't we in fifty-fifty three not also at war with the Soviets? I seem to recall Soviet pilots flying the Mig 15teens.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 23, 2023, 08:50:55 PM
YOU weren't anything, were you?  Was Belgium in on the 'UN peacekeeping'?

Not sure if the many Russian 'advisors' in Vietnam counts.  They were pretending to not be there.  Jarlwolf was almost certainly one of them, you know.




Head to head with the Chinese army not pretending to be anything else, I'm sure counts.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on February 24, 2023, 07:49:50 AM
YOU weren't anything, were you?  Was Belgium in on the 'UN peacekeeping'?

Not sure if the many Russian 'advisors' in Vietnam counts.  They were pretending to not be there.  Jarlwolf was almost certainly one of them, you know.




Head to head with the Chinese army not pretending to be anything else, I'm sure counts.


NATO was in it. And a whole infantry battalion from my country.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 24, 2023, 12:40:07 PM
Okay.  Pardon the ugly American.



-Y'know, one can really imagine some high-level phone calls between countries' leadership to the effect of "Let's have a fake feud; you game?"
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on February 24, 2023, 05:01:36 PM
For a moment I thought you said Jarlwolf might've been in Korea too, but then I saw the Vietnam part. I wonder what he would have said about the current war between Russia and Ukraine. I suppose he's long deceased now.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 24, 2023, 05:10:00 PM
That's my best guess.

He's old enough to remember the siege of Volgograd, so he was probably the right age for a grunt in Korea, but no Russian infantry shenanigans there.  He mentioned once being in Vietnamese jail, and I had a faintish impression he may have been spetsnaz, though he claimed combat engineer.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on February 25, 2023, 12:06:24 AM
That would've made him a couple years older then my father. He was born a couple months after my country's occupation started.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 25, 2023, 12:13:20 AM
Daddy was about 10 years older, and was 19-20 when they sent him to Korea.  Hmm. Jarl was bit over 70, ISTR, 10 years ago, which makes him closer to your dad and my mom, a little young for Korea, but we all know Russian infantry didn't sit idle throughout the 50s and 60s, and soldering did seem his primary career....
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on February 25, 2023, 07:29:34 PM
YOU weren't anything, were you?  Was Belgium in on the 'UN peacekeeping'?

Not sure if the many Russian 'advisors' in Vietnam counts.  They were pretending to not be there.  Jarlwolf was almost certainly one of them, you know.




Head to head with the Chinese army not pretending to be anything else, I'm sure counts.


NATO was in it. And a whole infantry battalion from my country.


Looks like I was partly wrong. In the Korean War NATO wasn't a belligerant. And the Belgian participance was a volunteer battalion.
Still, over the course of the war and a couple years after the armistice over 3,000 Belgians served in area.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 25, 2023, 08:42:28 PM
 ;b;
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 10, 2023, 10:45:37 PM
...Whadda you suppose they'll do if they lose Mitch?...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 11, 2023, 12:06:49 AM
That would put them in a pickle. I don't think his whips are able enough to fill his shoes.

I eventually came up with Lindsey Graham. He has national recognition. He's enough of a weasel to raise the necessary money and suck up to a majority of the senate Republicans. He's a clever spokesperson. He's not as despised as Ted Cruise and Mit Romney.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 11, 2023, 12:13:11 AM
...

He shows flashes of sense sometimes, too, when he's not hopelessly compromising himself.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 22, 2023, 05:04:24 AM
I tried contacting my new congressman about the debt ceiling. My old one was losing his grip mentally and retired. Interestingly the website has been revised in a way that makes it more difficult to make contact. I live in a gerrymandered district, so I doubt I'll be heeded, but this is what I sent-

We've been there and done that with the debt ceiling before. It seemed like a good idea once, but shutting down the government costs more than keeping it open in the long run. Likewise threatening to default on the National Debt downgraded our national bond rating and has cost us billions ever since. Doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result is insanity. You should be working to restore our bond rating. Don't let this nonsense go past Memorial Day. No telling what the costs will be to the financial markets,
Kick the can down the road, or man up to your oath of office to the Constitution and honor the 14th Amendment and raise the debt ceiling as Congress annually does now.
sincerely,
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on May 22, 2023, 05:17:17 PM
I have no idea if China has a monetary debt worth speaking of, but I do seem to remember reading an article (many years back) that China was buying up lots of USA bonds and could, if they wanted, default the USA debt if they wanted...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 23, 2023, 05:34:39 AM
I have no idea if China has a monetary debt worth speaking of, but I do seem to remember reading an article (many years back) that China was buying up lots of USA bonds and could, if they wanted, default the USA debt if they wanted...

They do hold a lot of our debt. 

Today I was thinking that my first contact with my Congressman should have been to ask him who won the 2020 presidential election.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on May 23, 2023, 07:30:21 AM
 ;lol
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 15, 2023, 02:30:30 AM
[Sleezebag] was arraigned for espionage yesterday.
HOORAY for "the Rule of Law"! While I understand that because he has a Secret Service detail, authorities know where he is  at all times, I was shocked that they didn't pull his passport.  Tonight I saw an interview with the former attorney for Reality Winner, (a service person convicted of espionage) - "I can't understand why a person indicted for espionage can still travel internationally- Why,... ( stammers, looks dumbfounded) That's just bonkers!" the attorney said.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on June 15, 2023, 07:37:07 AM
Perhaps it expires next month (his passport I mean)?  :)
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Unorthodox on June 15, 2023, 02:35:17 PM
More baffled he was able to use it as a campaign fund raising event...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 15, 2023, 02:56:58 PM
He still makes Reagan look like velcro.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on June 19, 2023, 07:48:14 PM
The three most-urgent problems in American politics today.

1. Fox News has so flooded the zone with negative coverage of Democrats, while soft-peddaling or outright ignoring Republican misdeeds, that even moderates and [Sleezebag]-tepid conservatives remain convinced that there is still enough equivalence between the two major parties to justify their voting for [Sleezebag] or other radical reactionary politicians on the Right. There is no institution capable of countering Fox News, and seemingly no court prepared to muzzle it. At this point, Republicans are living in an alternate reality where the fullness of [Sleezebag]'s crimes remain unknown to them, and the extent of Democratic wrongdoing is vastly over-stated.

2. Republicans who previously supported Donald [Sleezebag] are now fighting a bitter rear-guard battle against denial. For tens of millions to admit that they erred in their previous support and enthusiasm is still beyond contemplation. It's less that they trust in him per se than that they aren't prepared to do any self-examination. [Sleezebag] and his imitators are peddling cultural crack cocaine. After a decade or more of wondering whether they've really been asleep at the wheel when it comes to inclusivity, good governance, & etc., conservatives will flock to anyone who promises absolution and tells them their selfish, prejudicial attitudes were justifiable all along. "Demonrat," "Baby-killer," "Far-Left," and "groomer" labels are instructive because they justify conservatives' own discriminatory and anti-social preferences.

3. The media's race for ratings continues to work to Donald [Sleezebag]'s advantage. He's simply too interesting for anybody to look away.

The experience of the 2020 and 2022 election cycles both indicate that a majority of Americans are tired enough of Donald [Sleezebag] that he will have an uphill fight in a general election, but it's Biden's race to lose.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Unorthodox on June 20, 2023, 01:48:43 AM
Keep up.  Fox is old and busted.  It's moved to where they are even being seen as part of the Main Stream Media silence campaign against the TRUTH only spoken of by the orange one's supporters. 
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 23, 2023, 05:05:58 AM
I know it was discussed pages back. January 6th, Nazi wednesday, etc.

I am generally pleased with the prosecutions and sentencing of the Oaf Bleepers and Loud Boyz. I am pleased at the looming charges against Cheeto Mussolini.

BUT I am frequently frustrated by the lack of evidence of holding middle management of the insurrection accountable. Because without them, the fascist thugs would have been sitting in bars across the country bitching in their beers and Cheeto Mussolini would have been sitting in the Whitehouse cafeteria throwing food at the walls. It took strategists like Steve Bannon (who thinks the actual Mussolini was the greatest political mind of the century), go-betweens like Roger Stone, fund raisers like Ginnie (Mrs. Supreme Court Justice Clearance) Thomas, and of course, wealthy donors. Otherwise, there's no co-ordination and transportation.

It doesn't stop there. Rudy and ("Release the kraken") Sidney Powell played a part in convincing the thugs and congressional constituents that there was widespread election fraud. All of those state party operators fraudulently posing as legitimate electors. Politicians like my senator Ron Johnson who, if he didn't have a hand in the fake elector plot, his staff was certainly operating behind his back. Not bloody likely. Senator Lindsey Graham, who pressured the Georgia election officials. Speakers at the Elipse rally, like law professor John Eastman who masterminded the legal theory, Congressman Mo Brooks who helped incite a riot, and again "Trial by combat!" Rudy. I will add that the Secret Service agents who didn't evacuate [Sleezebag] from the rally at the first sight of a guy with a gun in a tree FAILED. W. Bush wanted to return to the Whitehouse immediately on 911. He wasn't given a choice until the threat was understood. [Sleezebag] should have been immediately and secretly evacuated to Camp David.

I think [Sleezebag] intended for the rioters to coerce Pence and Congress into "doing the right thing," or running for their lives. We know from Mike (My Pillow) Lindell's clip board that "declare martial law" was part of the plan.  [Sleezebag] didn't have enough loyalists in the upper echelons of the departments of Justice and Defense to take it that far. Somebody learned from the training exercise that that's what they needed, because Cheeto is talking about turning the government into a patronage system for loyalists and getting rid of the deep state/bureaucrats/civil servants on the campaign trail.

Well, I'm hoping that the Georgia prosecutor will go after the senator and the fake electors as well as Cheeto and send a message in a timely fashion. Otherwise, [Sleezebag] will feel free to turn the GOP Georgia primary where he is favored to win into a practice run for adding 10s of thousands of votes to his total.

I'm hoping that special prosecutor Smith has a DC  jurisdiction insurrection indictment up his sleeve, and that most of this middle management have taken plea deals that guarantee that everyone involved pays at least a partial price for participation.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 27, 2023, 06:36:18 AM
I'm sorry to say that  not only did Mitch McConnel fall this year, but he seems to have had a TIA stroke while speaking from a lectern to reporters. Don't wish that on anyone. I hope he retires and takes care of himself.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 04, 2023, 07:45:48 PM
The forum was down this week, and [Sleezebag] was indicted ( 4 counts with a potential for 55 years in total) in DC August 1st for conspiring to overturn a legitimate election.
Some say we knew this day was coming, but I didn't believe it until I saw it.

Why?

Well, I was sure that [Sleezebag] was in big trouble with obstruction of justice in the case of general Flynn, and that the Muller probe would prove it. I didn't expect that a justice department rule or custom about exempting the president from legal charges would come into play, or that Attorney General Bill Barr would lie and obfuscate the findings. No charges and no impeachment.

Then there was the matter of extortion against Ukraine. It led to an impeachment, and some convictions, but again, no charges or removal for [Sleezebag].

Then there was impeachment over the January 6th insurrection. Well, I guess we can call it sedition, because some of the over a thousand people convicted in the matter were charged as such. Again, no consequences for [Sleezebag].

Then there was was the classified documents/espionage case. It's not over. The problem is that it may never be over, because the judge is a [Sleezebag] appointee (who got censured for giving [Sleezebag] favorable treatment in another matter), and in no hurry to move the case forward for fear of further criticism. Cheeto Mussolini uses delay as his standard court tactic. Beyond that, Justice Clarence Thomas has jurisdiction for a potential appeal.

I think that something finally hit him that will stick. In fact, his lawyer basically incriminated [Sleezebag] while trying to defend him on FOX last night, and attorney statements about their clients are admissible in court.

Some say that it's a sad day when a former president is indicted, but I say the sad days were when the crimes were comitted, when people died as a result, when those in authority looked the other way.  I think it's a good day when The Constitution, the rule of law, and the idea that a president and a former president are not kings are upheld.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 04, 2023, 09:13:31 PM
It will always be an outrage that he wasn't technically in custody the night of Nazi Wednesday.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 05, 2023, 01:37:22 AM
And why weren't impeachment proceedings the next order of business after the certification of the election?
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 05, 2023, 02:04:57 AM
No integrity or no guts, depending on who.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on August 14, 2023, 03:40:49 AM
I assume it must be very difficult to obtain evidence of organized insurrection. And our entire system of government is designed for that. Look at how difficult it has been to use [Sleezebag]’s public statements to date to affix legal culpability for things like the Charlottesville riot.

So far, I think [Sleezebag] is in the biggest political trouble of his life. Matt Gaetz’s explicit call for violence at the Iowa State Fair, with [Sleezebag] behind him, and the allegation that [Sleezebag] told Pence he was “too honest”—implying that [Sleezebag] wanted him to do something [Sleezebag] knew was dishonest—reinforce my impressions here.

I think the Secret Service had no idea what to do with [Sleezebag], who seems to have believed deeply (or known explicitly) that the armed men at the Capitol were no threat to him.

The Republican Congress is full of craven Quislings who have sacrificed all principle to try to ride the political tiger. Some—MTG, Tuberville, Boebert, Gaetz—are True Believers™ who are not possessed of the moral fiber or intellectual capacity to understand what they are doing is wrong. Others—Vance, Graham, McCarthy—are simply addicted to the relevance that comes with serving as tribunes for a movement that has gripped so many of their countrymen. But the dark secret is that all it takes to achieve those stratospheric highs is a complete willingness to dupe people who deserve better. And I think some of them retreat into the Fox News bubble so that they can hide from disconfirmatory information, the better to convince themselves what they are doing isn’t illegitimate.

The real problem is that there is no desire for action from Republican voters. They are far more worried about what Joe Biden might do than with what [Sleezebag] has done because Fox News has editorial control over the information they receive. They don’t see [Sleezebag]’s misdeeds. They don’t hear his missteps and lies and nonsense. They don’t learn about the fullness of their own side’s misdeeds. They don’t know who they’re in bed with. And they’re fed incredible misinformation about everything from Black Lives Matter to the LGBTQ+ community. Think about how many of them defense the “Don’t Say Gay Bill” as this misunderstood effort to make education “age-appropriate.” I still see Republicans insist that Democrats would like the bill if only they would read it, even though statements from the bill’s sponsors, including DeSantis, make clear it is intended to discriminate, and even though its practical consequences have been to create a chilled teaching environment in classrooms where there was never a problem in the first place.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 14, 2023, 04:12:27 AM
Always a problem, that last, when outsiders try to "reform" the -admittedly incompetent- educational system.  It ends badly every time.

Hey!  Kids! Leave those teachers alone!
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on August 14, 2023, 02:57:47 PM
Hey! Putin! Leaves those 'kraines alone!
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 15, 2023, 02:55:14 AM
Well, we got here eventually.

Fulton County Georgia just got 10 out of 10 indictments from the grand jury in the Cheeto Mussolini RICO case.

That would include [Sleezebag] because he was the beneficiary of said criminal conspiracy. Hopefully it includes Sen. Graham as well. The contents aren't yet public.

What that means is that if [Sleezebag] were convicted of even one charge ( and he is on tape soliciting a public official, and on record in social media threatening Georgia jurors) he would face a mandatory minimum of 5 years, and a maximum of 20. The judge must sentence a minimum of 3 years confinement and 2 years probation. Beyond that, the President cannot pardon him for a state charge. The gov. of Georgia cannot pardon a prisoner. The state parole board cannot pardon a prisoner until they have both 1) served their full sentence, and 2) kept their nose clean for 5 years afterwards. 
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 15, 2023, 02:56:06 AM

Agreed Geo.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 15, 2023, 04:25:18 AM
So [Sleezebag] and 18 co-conspirators ( Mark Meadows and many of [Sleezebag]'s attorneys) are facing 41 charges.
I didn't hear Lindsey's name as a defendant, but I understand he was called as a witness before the grand jury. I figure he is smart enough to get on the right side of this.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 15, 2023, 07:32:01 PM
A Georgia racketeering charge is problematic for [Sleezebag] in another way.
To qualify for cash bail, the burden of proof is on his attorneys to convince the judge that he won't threaten a judge, juror, or witness. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 15, 2023, 07:42:22 PM
While being POTUS is the hardest job in the world, the requirements are so simple that even a short-fingered vulgarian should be able to understand them-

1)Protect the Constitution of the United States.
2)Preserve the Constitution of the United States.
3)Defend the Constitution of the United States.

If you're one of those guys like Nixon who aren't satisfied with being the most powerful person in the world, or the length of your term, here are some additional rules, which are pretty simple.

1)Don't crime.
2)Don't crime on tape.
3)When you do crime on tape, exercise your right to remain silent.

Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Unorthodox on August 15, 2023, 08:00:05 PM
Continually dumbfounded by the blinders on his followers. 
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 15, 2023, 08:08:11 PM
Continually.

Leave out everything he's done since 2014, and you still got the worst kind of attention-hungry celebrity; a drag on the rotation of the planet, and a joke.

Qualified to be president?  Not qualified to volunteer at the animal shelter.  Not passing the rather modest requirements to pose as an adult.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 15, 2023, 09:29:06 PM
I can totally understand how a guy like FDR or JFK would draw a cult following and potentially become a dictator.. or an orator like Obama.

But this guy?

Speaking of the former guy... my wife is tired of me saying insanity is his best defense.

* Looked directly at a solar eclipse.
*Advocated taking disinfectant internally to cure Covid.
* Claimed that the Montreal dementia test proved he was a genius- then recited the wrong answers to the questions.
* Motivated psychiatric professionals to break protocol and write a book about his psychopathy.
* Can declassify documents with his mind.
[EDIT to add afterthoughts]
* Advocated using nukes against hurricanes [/EDIT]

I think there's enough there for a few jurors to find reasonable doubt about his sanity.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Unorthodox on August 15, 2023, 10:44:52 PM
The classified stuff is ESPECIALLY mind boggling for me with the blinders people. 
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 15, 2023, 10:57:47 PM
You being in a job position that underlines how seriously that is taken, and IIRC, the guy at the desk across from you being a tankie for the Pig...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on August 16, 2023, 02:13:07 AM
Factors that contribute to the Republican Wall of Disinterest/Outrage™:

Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on August 16, 2023, 09:37:19 AM
Imagine the Sleezebag (yes, I'm circumventing the censor list here, BUncle ;) ) winning the presidential election after all, but being convicted by (a) State Court. So while he would rotsit in prison, I assume it would be very important who the Sleezebag's Running Mate would be? I am assuming there's no way he would be pardonned from sitting out a sentence in say Georgia, not even for so-called National Security matters, during a hypothetical second presidential term?
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Unorthodox on August 16, 2023, 03:56:06 PM
Factors that contribute to the Republican Wall of Disinterest/Outrage™:

  • Most Republicans are not watching or otherwise receiving news that communicates the foibles, misdeeds, lies, nonsense, or malfeasance of Donald J. [Sleezebag]. They are literally not aware that a serious problem exists. [Sleezebag] is simply "a little vulgar" or "a little too combative."
  • Republicans are being drowned in a sea of stories, many false or overwrought, of Democratic Party wrongdoing and cover-up that leads them to immediately discount the circumstances surrounding any Republican wrongdoing.
  • Many [Sleezebag] voters don't actually believe government can solve their problems. All they want from [Sleezebag] is the emotional validation of somebody who is wealthy, popular, and powerful telling them that they are good people just as they are.
  • Republican politicians are terrified of being primaried. That means joblessness and irrelevance. They are addicted to the attention they receive and the influence they wield. Supporting Donald [Sleezebag] is merely the cost of doing business. Quietly, many are doubtless praying that the court system will somehow end [Sleezebag]'s unrivaled dominion over the airwaves.
  • With each passing day, [Sleezebag] supporters have ever greater incentives to double down on their commitment. The alternative is being forced to admit that they made serious errors of political judgement for years on end. They'd become the villain of our national story.
  • [Sleezebag] infuriates people in a way nothing else has in more than a decade. The media made him, and they continue to feed that beast because, love him or hate him, everybody clicks when Donald [Sleezebag] is the subject. You simply can't look away from (another) good train wreck. That enormous unearned media helps voters to regard him as a figure of enduring relevance in our national politics.
  • Other Republican candidates have bent the knee. There is nothing more odious to Americans, and especially to the kinds of people predisposed to see strength in Donald [Sleezebag]'s shtick, than somebody who defers. By trying to draft in [Sleezebag]'s wake and tiptoe around his liabilities, [Sleezebag]'s competitors are actually damaging their credibility with the voter base they are trying to woo.

The original campaign concept of DRAIN THE SWAMP is actually super strong, and a compelling narrative.  I legitimately don't blame too many that were swept up with the thought that they FINALLY had an outsider that was going to give them career politicians a what-for. 

It's the fact that what actually happened was an erasure and reversion of many of the rules that were attempting to weaken THE SWAMP and he ended up strengthening THE SWAMP while being able to trick his base into shifting everything onto the 'woke' concepts that is weird to me.  I legitimately don't know if all these people were closeted bigot/racist/homophobes to begin with finally freed to voice this without fear or if they are becoming bigot/racist/homophobes as that narrative has gained traction.  To where they actually think he WAS draining the swamp...just the definition of the swamp was successfully shifted. 


Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on August 17, 2023, 03:49:28 AM
A lot of these people are LARPers. The swamp-fighting is entertainment. What’s the word? Kayfabe? There’s no coherent narrative around it.

I don’t give credit for those who confused [Sleezebag] with an “outsider.” If a politician is defined as somebody who lies, cheats, and manipulates to sustain their own influence and access, [Sleezebag] was already that. He actually had established political views and had previously run for office as a Reform Party candidate, never mind his role as a professional celebrity.

I do think that a certain segment of Generation X is deeply resentful about the difficulty they have navigating modern social situations and gravitates to [Sleezebag] because he tells them they are actually the good guys. It continues a trend of abominable selfishness in the American body politic. No mask. It’s annoying. No exposure to uncomfortable ideas. It’s annoying. No taxes. No civic contribution. It’s exhausting. No civility. It’s boring.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 18, 2023, 03:41:31 PM
This is all just the Reagan Revolution playing out...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 01, 2023, 12:50:35 AM
...And the Sunk Cost Fallacy in action...

...And I'm not 100% sure he isn't the Antichrist...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on September 01, 2023, 04:07:38 PM
What's biting you now?
Besides Mitchell's recent freeze I haven't read anything peculiar about Uncle Sam's politics?
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 01, 2023, 04:14:25 PM
Oh, maybe because I was at the dentist Tuesday, and the waiting room TV is always on a certain fascist propaganda channel...

-As a matter of fact, they were on about Biden being too old and unfit -which is not actually untrue, mind you- and on the lines of liars seeing lies everywhere, that's no coincidence with Mitch's problems.


I really just had the thought I posted, and this thread rewards an occasional bump.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on September 02, 2023, 03:36:04 PM
Oh, maybe because I was at the dentist Tuesday, and the waiting room TV is always on a certain fascist propaganda channel...

Well, if its the same channel I saw running on the TV in your living room...  :P
(not while you were there though)
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 02, 2023, 04:22:54 PM
There's nazis in the family, but none of them were here while you were...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on September 02, 2023, 06:30:57 PM
There's a Fox in the house...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 02, 2023, 06:39:17 PM
I love my family - but I hate nazis... ;goofy;
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on September 03, 2023, 03:47:36 AM
[Sleezebag] supporters--even the ones who don't really care for his politics or his style at this point--have sacrificed too much for him. Like a long, toxic relationship. The price of saving yourself is first admitting you stayed too long... which means letting your friends and family know they were right all along.

I am convinced that Fox News is the single most dangerous entity on the planet at this point. The shameless redirect has made it impossible to govern this nation well.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 03, 2023, 04:29:27 AM
Well, Fox has as bad a Sunk Cost problem as anyone.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on September 03, 2023, 01:36:23 PM

I am convinced that Fox News is the single most dangerous entity on the planet at this point. The shameless redirect has made it impossible to govern this nation well.

Ahem... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia-1)
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on September 03, 2023, 04:01:07 PM
I believe strongly that Russian misinformation, spread on social media, helped to metastasize [Sleezebag]'s movement leading into the 2016 election, that that the [Sleezebag] Campaign sought openly to coordinate with the Russians during the race, to the point of unwisely exposing itself to discovery.

But the garbage that reaches most Americans comes from Fox News. The intellectual sliminess that says Joe Biden is a wreck who can't communicate, but Donald [Sleezebag] is hale and healthy and not clearly disturbed.

Thanks to selective reporting, Republicans see only a fraction of [Sleezebag]'s wrongdoing, which makes it even harder to break out of the cult routine.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on September 03, 2023, 04:06:02 PM
Thanks to selective reporting, Republicans see only a fraction of [Sleezebag]'s wrongdoing, which makes it even harder to break out of the cult routine.

If a segment of a population is too lazy to check more news sources then the one(s) within their comfort circle...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 03, 2023, 04:07:14 PM
But they are that lazy.



I wasn't joking about not being 100% sure he ain't the Antichrist - he's corrupted and suborned most churches further into the error of hate politics, and the signs and wonders he does?  -That anyone ever supported a sorry joke like him in the first place.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on September 04, 2023, 06:41:49 AM
If a segment of a population is too lazy to check more news sources then the one(s) within their comfort circle...

While I appreciate the sentiment that he who made his bed should be abandoned to lie in it, such a strategy is less appealing when the bed is shared.

And remember, too, that there's no reason for the credulous to doubt that Fox News is telling them all the news they need to see, and from the only perspective that isn't taking excessive liberties.

People know that Fox has a conservative bias, but they assume picking news channels is like picking ice cream: they're all flavored, and you just need to pick the one that works for you. But what they don't really understand is that Fox News is selective about what it decides to communicate, sensationalizing some stories and suppressing others. All news does this, actually, but Fox News is just especially shameless in its approach.

Bottom line: most people are too ignorant to know better. Only some of this is willful.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 05, 2023, 06:20:41 AM
But they are that lazy.



I wasn't joking about not being 100% sure he ain't the Antichrist - he's corrupted and suborned most churches further into the error of hate politics, and the signs and wonders he does?  -That anyone ever supported a sorry joke like him in the first place.

I had the same thought today.

Mitch is a tragedy. Looks like another stroke to us. They explain it away as "he is dehydrated " and "he fell and got a concussion recently, it's just the after effects.

Well... He might be dehydrated if he couldn't swallow very well... and he might have fallen and got a concussion ....'BECAUSE HE KEEPS HAVING MINI STROKES!"

Dianne Feinstein needs to retire for health reasons as well.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 05, 2023, 11:44:04 AM
...Yes, much like Reagan after he was shot...
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 06, 2023, 05:21:03 AM
Well, they had a press conference to insist that Mitch's problems aren't Parkinson's or strokes, but they didn't say what they were.

Which leaves us with Mitch has a mysterious problem that causes him to fall or freeze without warning.

Speaking as a person with an inner ear disorder and having had more than my fair share of falls, I would strongly advise him to stay away from places with marble floors and stairs.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on September 06, 2023, 04:51:56 PM
Speaking as a person with an inner ear disorder and having had more than my fair share of falls, I would strongly advise him to stay away from places with marble floors and stairs.

That's a polite way of telling him to retire, Rusty. ;)
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on September 09, 2023, 03:51:07 PM
I guess it's a self-contradictory stance, but while I'm not keen on legislative and executive term limits--for both purely democratic and experiential reasons--I think there is far better justification for age limits on congressional and presidential service.

The obvious benefit of a legislative term limit is that it would eliminate the specter of the looming election cycle, theoretically giving lawmakers more room to govern according to a specific ideology. It would also limit the opportunity for special interests to entrench themselves through election contributions since the opportunities for post-election leverage over a winning candidate would be much less.

The dangers of legislative term limits are many, however. First, they constrain choice, which is inherently anti-democratic. Second, they are likely to make elected officials more dependent upon lobbyists and consultants to build relationships with other legislators, and to develop both issue and procedural knowledge. Third, there is a danger that, instead of working only for the next election cycle, legislators will gum the works of government by preening for the next sinecure, essentially auditioning for corporate boards and other plumb post-governmental appointments.

An age limit, set at 65 for all positions, might help reduce the likelihood society will end up dealing with the apparent cognitive problems of a president, judge, or legislator, which are especially thorny in a partisan context. Democrats would rather have zombie-Feinstein than the alternative, and Republicans are probably sticking with Mitch for the same reasons.

Again, a lot of the problems go back to media. Fox News hammers at Biden. They have been tremendously successful in creating a compelling case for their viewers that he is incapable of doing the job, and yet you hear nary a peep about Donald [Sleezebag]'s inability to create coherent sentences, process detail, or speak anything remotely resembling the truth.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 23, 2023, 01:38:34 AM
We can dream

https://www.facebook.com/thelincolnproject.us/videos/775727647634058/
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 23, 2023, 01:51:13 AM
I think Ross Perot addressed this problem the first time he ran. "Ethical Reform"was one of his top 3 priorities. Explained as [Close the revolving door! We need a law that says that if you leave the Federal government, you can not work for a firm that lobbies the federal government for 5 years, and a foreign country for 10 years. ]
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 25, 2023, 08:13:16 PM
[Sleezebag] was arraigned for espionage yesterday.
HOORAY for "the Rule of Law"! While I understand that because he has a Secret Service detail, authorities know where he is  at all times, I was shocked that they didn't pull his passport.  Tonight I saw an interview with the former attorney for Reality Winner, (a service person convicted of espionage) - "I can't understand why a person indicted for espionage can still travel internationally- Why,... ( stammers, looks dumbfounded) That's just bonkers!" the attorney said.

So today [Sleezebag] bought a Glock. I think it had his picture on it. 

Donald [Sleezebag], The guy who has been threatening judges, jurors, prosecutors and witnesses, while out on bail, While being specifically warned by judges not to make threats. Me, I find those high capacity Glocks threatening. It's easy to get lucky with lots of rounds. The fact that he can buy one? "THAT"S JUST BONKERS!!"
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on September 26, 2023, 08:35:47 AM
[Sleezebag] was arraigned for espionage yesterday.
HOORAY for "the Rule of Law"! While I understand that because he has a Secret Service detail, authorities know where he is  at all times, I was shocked that they didn't pull his passport.  Tonight I saw an interview with the former attorney for Reality Winner, (a service person convicted of espionage) - "I can't understand why a person indicted for espionage can still travel internationally- Why,... ( stammers, looks dumbfounded) That's just bonkers!" the attorney said.

So today [Sleezebag] bought a Glock. I think it had his picture on it. 

Donald [Sleezebag], The guy who has been threatening judges, jurors, prosecutors and witnesses, while out on bail, While being specifically warned by judges not to make threats. Me, I find those high capacity Glocks threatening. It's easy to get lucky with lots of rounds. The fact that he can buy one? "THAT"S JUST BONKERS!!"

Maybe his SS detail is heavier-armed, and he feels he needs protection against them?
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 28, 2023, 01:29:47 AM
Well, he may or may not have bought a glock.
His publicist said that he did on social media and posted a video clip...then deleted it. On the clip [Sleezebag] says he wants one while handling it. When the store was called by the press they hung up. Then the story changed to he didn't buy a gun.

I wonder if maybe [Sleezebag] did buy one, but then somebody realized that it was illegal, and that [Sleezebag] could go to jail for that, the guy who sold it to him could me charged with a felony, and the store's firearms license could be in jeopardy. Then canceled the sale.

As I say
1) Don't crime.
2) Don't crime on record.
3) When you do, remain silent.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/25/us/politics/[Sleezebag]-glock-gun-south-carolina.html?unlocked_article_code=9g76WavHgZk6JnVMJyx3hIW6XTyqaRpIR8c-f-4rDkHOozNNzeE65fkunID6EWs5elQRkNonhFWaSsLphbUvs_DhoaqE-PcjctVCrP6U4wxxNwcriTXFdxovzHdNQDtSyhVFAERMgrc3lhxKSeRfg5-xyiZEEZiR_yRdSamIuvQPljBwQZ5iZms61PuaOaT2_6wuvO4vfffKyzUO8X44bv37jhA9wqnTu6o7-9bXoNys6DlAdD3_NSPv1ykDa5YSJpDmjxl6VRbjPTe2phUxW41NAiWL9lbQRFSCvEirvvRYdfu52njrwtbBD4QBZkayU0eOBaf4CotVkwqd7rrWuc5uDb1qeHUUSrfSYg&smid=url-share&fbclid=IwAR0MPCApT5D3iIGX-sDfcYmfcPIncUjBVbx-OxlpOEV0iL0Psz2V6QCVsH8

Personally, I am okay with Hunter Biden and Donald [Sleezebag] being held to the same standard as any black guy in the inner city.
The Secret Service should know, one way or the other. Technically just handling a pistol that had been transported across state lines while on parole is a felony.

Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 28, 2023, 01:43:19 AM
Maybe his SS detail is heavier-armed, and he feels he needs protection against them?


Sadly the Secret Service has had some scandals this century. Many SS agents are [Sleezebag] supporters. I doubt that the ones who don't support him wish to risk their lives for him.

ALSO- ["The Department notified us that many U.S. Secret Service (USSS) text messages from January 5 and 6, 2021, were erased as part of a device-replacement program," Inspector General Joseph Cuffari wrote to top members of congressional Homeland Security committees. "The USSS erased those messages after OIG requested records of electronic communications from the USSS, as part of our evaluation of the events at the Capitol on January 6."]
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/14/1111618620/secret-service-erased-texts-from-two-day-period-spanning-jan-6-attack-watchdog-s



Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on September 28, 2023, 08:43:11 AM
Sadly the Secret Service has had some scandals this century. Many SS agents are [Sleezebag] supporters. I doubt that the ones who don't support him wish to risk their lives for him.

In a department with many thousands of people, no surprises there.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 22, 2023, 02:47:38 AM
Well, it's nice to know that there were/are enough Republicans in Congress with enough remnants of ethics to keep election denier Jim Jordan from becoming Speaker of the House.

Also Kenneth Chesebro, the architect of the fake elector scheme has taken a plea deal in Georgia.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 22, 2023, 02:54:00 AM
And Sydney Powell.  Bad week to be a Nazi.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Geo on October 22, 2023, 12:38:11 PM
Almost there, Jack... ;v
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: bvanevery on October 22, 2023, 07:37:43 PM
The dangers of legislative term limits are many, however. First, they constrain choice, which is inherently anti-democratic.

WHAAAA?  Do you live somewhere where a legislative seat is flipping between Democrat and Republican (and nothing else) frequently?  My driver's license address has this old Republican windbag, Virginia Foxx, who's been there since 2005.  Her incumbency is clearly constraining my choice.  She's unassailable.  She'll have to retire or die.  I don't even know if that should be the case with SCOTUS justices.  I definitely have no taste for it in legislators.

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Second, they are likely to make elected officials more dependent upon lobbyists and consultants to build relationships with other legislators, and to develop both issue and procedural knowledge.

I don't even know what this means or could possibly mean.  Every elected official is already deeply in the sack with lobbyists and consultants already.  I can't even imagine a theory, of there being more of it, or how you would justify a comparison against some kind of control group.  In other words, I pronounce this concern to be Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

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legislators will gum the works of government by preening for the next sinecure,

Again, "as if" that's not done already.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on October 22, 2023, 09:05:15 PM
WHAAAA?  Do you live somewhere where a legislative seat is flipping between Democrat and Republican (and nothing else) frequently?  My driver's license address has this old Republican windbag, Virginia Foxx, who's been there since 2005.  Her incumbency is clearly constraining my choice.  She's unassailable.  She'll have to retire or die.  I don't even know if that should be the case with SCOTUS justices.  I definitely have no taste for it in legislators.

Pros and cons stack up on each side. Term limits are great for helping to "get the [progeny of unmarried parents] out." They're problematic when you decide the incumbent is good at their job and want them to keep delivering.

But beyond that, there is a bigger issue: democratic accountability is forward-looking. If, once elected, I know that there is no reward of reelection waiting for me after the end of my term, you lose the biggest lever you have to influence me in the direction you'd prefer I go. More on this below.

I don't even know what this means or could possibly mean.  Every elected official is already deeply in the sack with lobbyists and consultants already.  I can't even imagine a theory, of there being more of it, or how you would justify a comparison against some kind of control group.  In other words, I pronounce this concern to be Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

It means that being a legislator is like any other career path: experience matters. Although there are many perverse incentives in the system that mean legislators can and do go in other directions (see: the diverging careers of Jim Jordan and Kevin McCarthy), the less time a legislator has in office, the less time they have to become an expert on any issue, much less to master parliamentary procedure.

Right now, the influence of lobbyists and consultants is offset by a legislator's fear of future accountability to voters. Most legislators can't simply go "all in" on their own brand of crazy without risking alienation of crucial supporters.

Term limits will encourage voters to experiment across partisan lines while causing legislators themselves to head toward extremes.

Party loyalty is weak in the United States. Voters are highly partisan, but lawmakers rarely put party before self.

Again, "as if" that's not done already.

It will get worse since there would be no thought of delaying the sinecure as long as possible.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: bvanevery on October 22, 2023, 09:26:08 PM
They're problematic when you decide the incumbent is good at their job and want them to keep delivering.

I'm not interested in legislators as permanent ongoing institutions with an entourage.  Especially because in the USA, it will be a Democrat or a Republican so ensconced.  I am a Socialist.  Exactly what kind, I cannot quite tell you, although not the Marxist-Leninist Bolshevik tank driving kind.  There are a number of kinds of Socialists, historically over the years, that were / are not that.  The point is that a system that promotes nearly lifelong incumbency, is decidedly against my political interest.  And even if Socialism became competitive in the American political landscape again, I wouldn't change my tune.  Who needs a legislator that routinely stacks up their incumbent advantages?  Doesn't keep them on their toes.

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But beyond that, there is a bigger issue: democratic accountability is forward-looking. If, once elected, I know that there is no reward of reelection waiting for me after the end of my term, you lose the biggest lever you have to influence me in the direction you'd prefer I go. More on this below.

Loss of control within a political party, that some young upstart will succeed you, and do a much better job at it, is a motive to perform.  Your concern is really only highest when a politician intends to retire.

Quote
It means that being a legislator is like any other career path: experience matters.

I will take the inexperience of Alexandria Occasio-Cortez over any such claim, any day.  Until the day that I have piles of Socialists to choose to put into office, and am spoiled for choice.  In the interim, I will take the ones that actually want to fight, and haven't had as much time to become fat and corrupted.

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the less time they have to become an expert on any issue,

Legislators have an extensive staff for a reason.  Some legislators are so old, iit is clearly only their staff that is doing the actual work.  The old fart who's about to die of a brain disease, is just a figurehead for the staff bureaucracy, which promotes a certain political value.

Quote
much less to master parliamentary procedure.

Frankly, who cares.  I know idiots get elected, but if you can't figure that stuff out in a few months, there's something basically wrong with your brain.

Quote
Right now, the influence of lobbyists and consultants is offset by a legislator's fear of future accountability to voters. Most legislators can't simply go "all in" on their own brand of crazy without risking alienation of crucial supporters.

You sound like a Centrist.  I'm not surprised that a Centrist would want to preserve the structural status quo.
Title: Re: Politics 2023
Post by: Trenacker on October 24, 2023, 02:48:24 AM
I'm not interested in legislators as permanent ongoing institutions with an entourage.  Especially because in the USA, it will be a Democrat or a Republican so ensconced.  I am a Socialist.  Exactly what kind, I cannot quite tell you, although not the Marxist-Leninist Bolshevik tank driving kind.  There are a number of kinds of Socialists, historically over the years, that were / are not that.  The point is that a system that promotes nearly lifelong incumbency, is decidedly against my political interest.  And even if Socialism became competitive in the American political landscape again, I wouldn't change my tune.  Who needs a legislator that routinely stacks up their incumbent advantages?  Doesn't keep them on their toes.

Perhaps we should define something. If you're an advocate for term limits, are we talking one term? Two? Four?

Loss of control within a political party, that some young upstart will succeed you, and do a much better job at it, is a motive to perform.  Your concern is really only highest when a politician intends to retire.

If you can't run again, what's the point of controlling a political party? And how do you enforce party discipline on people who aren't running again? This goes back to the previous question.

I will take the inexperience of Alexandria Occasio-Cortez over any such claim, any day.  Until the day that I have piles of Socialists to choose to put into office, and am spoiled for choice.  In the interim, I will take the ones that actually want to fight, and haven't had as much time to become fat and corrupted.

That's just it: you don't have piles of Socialists to choose from. This knife cuts both ways. Term limits would be expected to produce flip-flopping seats and encourage voters to experiment, perhaps to the benefit of minor parties, but depending upon those limits, you might find that you have no more or better choices than before.

Legislators have an extensive staff for a reason.  Some legislators are so old, iit is clearly only their staff that is doing the actual work.  The old fart who's about to die of a brain disease, is just a figurehead for the staff bureaucracy, which promotes a certain political value.

If the term limits are harsh, the problem may only get worse.

Frankly, who cares.  I know idiots get elected, but if you can't figure that stuff out in a few months, there's something basically wrong with your brain.

Idiots get elected because of structural flaws in the system, but why would we promote "solutions" that only perpetuate those same flaws?

You sound like a Centrist.  I'm not surprised that a Centrist would want to preserve the structural status quo.

I still don't understand why you think there's accountability built into the system you're describing. Please define "term limits" here. Maybe you mean to say that you would like to see politicians serve only a few terms, not many.

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