Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Bug/Patch Discussion => Topic started by: Yitzi on August 11, 2015, 02:31:29 AM

Title: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 11, 2015, 02:31:29 AM
I'm making good progress on 3.5 (I just finished a really big piece; it started with ete's request for faction-specific units, but I decided to add a lot more capability beyond that), so I'm officially opening nominations for features and bugfixes to be voted on for inclusion in patch version 3.6.  The rules are similar to last time:

Each person is allowed to nominate up to two new features and up to two bugfixes.  If a bugfix or feature is really easy and/or I really like the idea (or a bugfix is really essential), it will automatically make it in, otherwise I will assign to each feature/bugfix a vote multiplier representing how hard it is (the easier it is, the higher the multiplier), and then we'll take a vote via range voting, and whichever feature(s) and bugfix(es) score the highest (vote times multiplier, with number depending on how difficult they are) make it into the next version of the patch.

If you'd rather describe a problem and let me figure out a solution, you can do that instead of both nominated features; if you describe the problem and suggest a solution, that only counts as one nominated feature even if I suggest an alternate solution and you decide to go with that.

If something requires major internal changes first, I will put those changes up as a voting option instead.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on August 11, 2015, 03:53:12 AM
I am fairly certain that I have figured out where the function for the COMMFREQ Bonus exists. The actual test for the faction Bonus COMMFREQ occurs at address 005B3D36. I am uncertain exactly what occurs at this location. The other feaure I would want nominated is to fix the Morale Bonuses from Children's Creches and Brood Pits while a faction has a negative morale score.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 11, 2015, 04:01:20 AM
I am fairly certain that I have figured out where the function for the COMMFREQ Bonus exists. The actual test for the faction Bonus COMMFREQ occurs at address 005B3D36. I am uncertain exactly what occurs at this location. The other feaure I would want nominated is to fix the Morale Bonuses from Children's Creches and Brood Pits while a faction has a negative morale score.

COMMFREQ has already been fixed for 3.5.  But your nomination of fixing the effect of creches has been accepted.  (It's not clear what's even supposed to happen for Brood Pits, AFAIK.)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on August 11, 2015, 04:14:54 AM
I am fairly certain that I have figured out where the function for the COMMFREQ Bonus exists. The actual test for the faction Bonus COMMFREQ occurs at address 005B3D36. I am uncertain exactly what occurs at this location. The other feaure I would want nominated is to fix the Morale Bonuses from Children's Creches and Brood Pits while a faction has a negative morale score.

COMMFREQ has already been fixed for 3.5.  But your nomination of fixing the effect of creches has been accepted.  (It's not clear what's even supposed to happen for Brood Pits, AFAIK.)
Based upon my analysis of the procedure, the effects of brood pits on the morale of Native Life is identical to that of Children's Creches except they appear to provide an additional +1 Morale bonus (including the bugs). The procedure for the visuals controls of the morale bonus starts at 004B3FD0. The procedure for the actual bonuses to morale from these facilities starts at address 00501940. Additionally, it appears as though Children's Creches also give Native Life the same Morale Bonus. However, the bonus from the Children's Creche does not stack with the bonus from a Brood Pit if both exist at the same base.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 11, 2015, 12:24:35 PM
I am fairly certain that I have figured out where the function for the COMMFREQ Bonus exists. The actual test for the faction Bonus COMMFREQ occurs at address 005B3D36. I am uncertain exactly what occurs at this location. The other feaure I would want nominated is to fix the Morale Bonuses from Children's Creches and Brood Pits while a faction has a negative morale score.

COMMFREQ has already been fixed for 3.5.  But your nomination of fixing the effect of creches has been accepted.  (It's not clear what's even supposed to happen for Brood Pits, AFAIK.)
Based upon my analysis of the procedure, the effects of brood pits on the morale of Native Life is identical to that of Children's Creches except they appear to provide an additional +1 Morale bonus (including the bugs). The procedure for the visuals controls of the morale bonus starts at 004B3FD0. The procedure for the actual bonuses to morale from these facilities starts at address 00501940. Additionally, it appears as though Children's Creches also give Native Life the same Morale Bonus. However, the bonus from the Children's Creche does not stack with the bonus from a Brood Pit if both exist at the same base.

Ok; when I change it, I'll be analyzing it myself.  But some of that simply isn't relevant; creches remove negative morale modifiers, but there's no such thing as negative lifecycle modifiers.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Eadee on August 11, 2015, 02:03:36 PM
Okay, I'm going for the Research-equivalent of "Stockpile Energy". So being able to translate Production into Research points instead of EC.
Maybe called "Focus Research"? I suggested this in another thread already and am willing to provide the Icon for it. Be it the one I made earlier or another one if you like something different.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 11, 2015, 04:41:54 PM
Okay, I'm going for the Research-equivalent of "Stockpile Energy". So being able to translate Production into Research points instead of EC.
Maybe called "Focus Research"? I suggested this in another thread already and am willing to provide the Icon for it. Be it the one I made earlier or another one if you like something different.

Ok, Focus Research has been nominated.  And that icon looks fine.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: vonbach on August 11, 2015, 10:08:48 PM
An auto plant forest button. This would make life so much easier.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Eadee on August 11, 2015, 11:33:23 PM
An auto plant forest button. This would make life so much easier.
isn't it possible to disable all terraform-actions besides planting forest and going full-auto? I thought that should work :o
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 12, 2015, 04:44:23 AM
An auto plant forest button. This would make life so much easier.

Nominated.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Lxndr on August 14, 2015, 08:37:27 PM
a pet peeve of mine:

if I have set a unit to 'fully automate', and it is withdrawn from enemy territory, it stops being fully automated. 
I'd love to see some persistence in automation.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 15, 2015, 03:37:11 AM
The MP faction graphics bug needs fixing -not least so sisko's sig will stop shouting.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Eadee on August 15, 2015, 01:40:39 PM
The MP faction graphics bug needs fixing -not least so sisko's sig will stop shouting.
I don't even know what this bug is :o
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 15, 2015, 02:08:32 PM
The graphics for the wrong factions display when you load your save.  http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2531.0 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2531.0)

It's actually a scenario bug - but it's MPlayers that mostly encounter it, MP games being set up as, technically, scenarios, and doesn't come up unless you're switching between games in progress, which they do a lot...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Eadee on August 15, 2015, 02:56:53 PM
Oh , I see.

and no wonder I didn't notice it until now, I just startet one PBEM-match so far.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: DrazharLn on August 16, 2015, 12:32:28 AM
Fixing the faction graphics bug would be really nice. I'll support it in the voting. It affected the Games of the Month as well, back when we* were still making those. I think fixing it would encourage more people to play PBEM/MP games and also the making of new scenarios.

* (mostly the rest of the team, I think I only ever contributed some research, discussion and some tiny fiction fragment)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2015, 12:38:25 AM
*It's never too late, you know - I never quit; I just ran out of scenario-creator guys.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 16, 2015, 04:08:32 AM
a pet peeve of mine:

if I have set a unit to 'fully automate', and it is withdrawn from enemy territory, it stops being fully automated. 
I'd love to see some persistence in automation.

Nomination accepted, although since you might often want automation to stop due to big changes like that, it'd have to be done as an option, and I doubt it'll get many votes.

The MP faction graphics bug needs fixing -not least so sisko's sig will stop shouting.

Nomination accepted.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Vidsek on August 17, 2015, 03:08:40 PM
  How long will nominations be open?    It might take me a few days (couple weeks?) to sort through my ideas and discard the stupid ones.....
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 17, 2015, 11:15:39 PM
  How long will nominations be open?    It might take me a few days (couple weeks?) to sort through my ideas and discard the stupid ones.....

Until I get about halfway to being ready to release patch 3.5; I'm not sure yet how long that'll be.  If you want, you can ask for a particular amount of time warning.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: vonbach on August 18, 2015, 02:02:24 AM
Is there a way to add a PSI defense only?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: PvtHudson on August 18, 2015, 02:32:40 PM
I can only repeat myself from 3.5's nomination thread:
1. Non-finishing air attacks on land units, except probe teams. Attack by air unit cannot reduce land unit's health below 10% outdoor, 50% in base or bunker. Ideally, collateral damage to population from Nerve Gas Pods should still apply. Probe teams can be obliterated, inglourious basterds they are! And probably SAM land units must fight to the death.
2. Techsteal and Kill Prominent Researcher is only possible against the base with Network Node. If you don't want to be proberaped, sell NN in vulnerable base. Poor old Zak can't do this, which makes perfect sense! Setting should have different values for probe teams and TECHSTEAL faction ability.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: gwillybj on August 18, 2015, 06:33:03 PM
Is there a way to add a PSI defense only?
Yes: Research Eudaimonia and you will have access to Psi Defense.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: DrazharLn on August 18, 2015, 08:13:31 PM
Yitzi, have you incorporated scient's v2 patch into your work? Do you have any plans to?

Feature nomination: Toggle spawning of fungal towers

This was the main block (as far I remember) for the SMAC within SMAX project. It was suggested to set the chassis for the tower to needlejet or missile as a workaround, but I seem to remember testing that and finding it didn't work.

There might have been a problem with other native life too, but I can't remember and can't test for a little while (away from windows machine).

Second feature nomination: Toggle spawning of any native life unit.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 18, 2015, 11:04:16 PM
I can only repeat myself from 3.5's nomination thread:
1. Non-finishing air attacks on land units, except probe teams. Attack by air unit cannot reduce land unit's health below 10% outdoor, 50% in base or bunker. Ideally, collateral damage to population from Nerve Gas Pods should still apply. Probe teams can be obliterated, inglourious basterds they are! And probably SAM land units must fight to the death.

So similar rules as artillery?  Nominated.

Quote
2. Techsteal and Kill Prominent Researcher is only possible against the base with Network Node. If you don't want to be proberaped, sell NN in vulnerable base. Poor old Zak can't do this, which makes perfect sense! Setting should have different values for probe teams and TECHSTEAL faction ability.

Nomination accepted.

Yitzi, have you incorporated scient's v2 patch into your work? Do you have any plans to?

I'm planning to add most of it piece by piece over several patch versions.

Quote
Feature nomination: Toggle spawning of fungal towers

Already completed as of 3.4.  Subtract 32 from the expansion features code (so 223 if you want to be SMAX-like in every other way, 222 if you want the SMAC intro video as well, and 0 if you want to be SMAC-like in every way except the tech tree and additional factions*), and fungal towers should no longer spawn.

*Which can then be disabled elsewhere.

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There might have been a problem with other native life too, but I can't remember and can't test for a little while (away from windows machine).

There probably were; spore launchers are hardcoded to be artillery IIRC.  Subtracting 16 from the expansion features code will prevent them (and sealurks) from being spawned as native-owned, while setting the prerequisite to Disable will prevent them from being built by factions.

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Second feature nomination: Toggle spawning of any native life unit.

Do you still want to nominate that given that the SMAX-only ones can be disabled (though sealurks and spores cannot be disabled individually)?  If so, should they be replaced by non-disabled ones (where relevant, e.g. spores replace worms and vice versa) or not at all?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: DrazharLn on August 18, 2015, 11:07:42 PM
I retract both of my nominations. Thank you very much for your work! I've been away a lot and missed these (somehwhat) recent developments.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: DrazharLn on August 19, 2015, 03:51:34 AM
Nominate feature: Set some alphax custom units to be available only to AI players.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 19, 2015, 03:59:09 AM
Has anything ever been done with user-definable interlude triggers?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 19, 2015, 04:15:28 AM
Nominate feature: Set some alphax custom units to be available only to AI players.

Just so you know; 3.5 will allow custom units to be made unavailable and then have a faction bonus making them available again; do you still particularly want the AI-only ones?

Has anything ever been done with user-definable interlude triggers?

No; however, that is so broad that it can't be done comprehensively without a parsing procedure, which is a lot of work and would probably hurt performance and isn't worth doing.  However, specific triggers (or specific types of triggers such as "on learning a tech" or "on finishing a project") would probably be doable, though it'd still be a bit tricky if it needs to avoid repeats or otherwise store information.  Did you have anything specific in mind?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: DrazharLn on August 19, 2015, 04:19:08 AM
Just so you know; 3.5 will allow custom units to be made unavailable and then have a faction bonus making them available again; do you still particularly want the AI-only ones?

Yes please. It would allow us to just dump a load of special units into alphax.txt to improve the AI without affecting human experience.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 19, 2015, 02:33:58 PM
Just so you know; 3.5 will allow custom units to be made unavailable and then have a faction bonus making them available again; do you still particularly want the AI-only ones?

Yes please. It would allow us to just dump a load of special units into alphax.txt to improve the AI without affecting human experience.

Ok, nominated.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 19, 2015, 02:48:58 PM
Has anything ever been done with user-definable interlude triggers?

No; however, that is so broad that it can't be done comprehensively without a parsing procedure, which is a lot of work and would probably hurt performance and isn't worth doing.  However, specific triggers (or specific types of triggers such as "on learning a tech" or "on finishing a project") would probably be doable, though it'd still be a bit tricky if it needs to avoid repeats or otherwise store information.  Did you have anything specific in mind?
I'm on the creative end of GotMs, so it's tough for me to go into specifics from a conversation that mostly took place 5.5 years ago on another site in a private folder, but one I think could be made to serve most scenario needs is an option to place a location trigger or several on the map - maybe also specific objects/units, like an alien artifact that has to be escorted back to base x.

The problem we faced when we were trying to figure out how to work story into interludes in early 2010 was that altering the text of existing interludes is easy, but figuring out how to set things up to trigger in the right order made it unworkable.  If we had more options, it should make all the difference.  "on learning a tech" or "on finishing a project" would be good, too.

(I also have a few other related things on the wish-list, like an option to have multi-page interludes -there's one or two already in the game- and ability to insert art; but mainly, more interlude trigger options.)

sisko can probably elaborate on all this...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 19, 2015, 06:39:58 PM
Has anything ever been done with user-definable interlude triggers?

No; however, that is so broad that it can't be done comprehensively without a parsing procedure, which is a lot of work and would probably hurt performance and isn't worth doing.  However, specific triggers (or specific types of triggers such as "on learning a tech" or "on finishing a project") would probably be doable, though it'd still be a bit tricky if it needs to avoid repeats or otherwise store information.  Did you have anything specific in mind?
I'm on the creative end of GotMs, so it's tough for me to go into specifics from a conversation that mostly took place 5.5 years ago on another site in a private folder, but one I think could be made to serve most scenario needs is an option to place a location trigger or several on the map - maybe also specific objects/units, like an alien artifact that has to be escorted back to base x.

The problem we faced when we were trying to figure out how to work story into interludes in early 2010 was that altering the text of existing interludes is easy, but figuring out how to set things up to trigger in the right order made it unworkable.  If we had more options, it should make all the difference.  "on learning a tech" or "on finishing a project" would be good, too.

(I also have a few other related things on the wish-list, like an option to have multi-page interludes -there's one or two already in the game- and ability to insert art; but mainly, more interlude trigger options.)

sisko can probably elaborate on all this...

When there's a more specific request that you'd like to nominate, I can assign it a difficulty (location triggers shouldn't be too hard if you don't might each such location counting toward the maximum of 64 landmarks, and stuff involving units would be significantly harder but should be doable), but without a specific request it's just to broad to even know what I would be doing.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 19, 2015, 07:11:01 PM
Location triggers, then.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 19, 2015, 07:43:47 PM
Location triggers, then.

Ok, nomination accepted.  I take it that it is ok if they count toward the landmarks limit?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 19, 2015, 07:49:26 PM
Sure.  No problem.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on August 19, 2015, 08:14:27 PM
I nominate for features:
- A flag to give PSI defender a -/+% modifier by PLANET SE (like attacking already has)
In order to make native life more relevant/usable I've been playing with 2:1 A/D ratio on PSI.  However this makes PSI units very weak on defense, with high PLANET they should have a little more chance.  It's tricky because alien life also has to be considered...I know non-native defenders are also an option.
- Not sure if it's a bug but N from condensors are treated as bonus and thus exempt from N cap.
- More flags on tech/facilities so that FOP gains on terrain other than fungus can be added.  Might be a lot of work for what it's worth, but it has possibilities I think.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 19, 2015, 10:00:21 PM
I nominate for features:
- A flag to give PSI defender a -/+% modifier by PLANET SE (like attacking already has)
In order to make native life more relevant/usable I've been playing with 2:1 A/D ratio on PSI.  However this makes PSI units very weak on defense, with high PLANET they should have a little more chance.  It's tricky because alien life also has to be considered...I know non-native defenders are also an option.
- Not sure if it's a bug but N from condensors are treated as bonus and thus exempt from N cap.
- More flags on tech/facilities so that FOP gains on terrain other than fungus can be added.  Might be a lot of work for what it's worth, but it has possibilities I think.

The second one isn't a bug, so you can only nominate two:
-The flag for Psi defense could definitely be done and wouldn't even be that difficult.
-Removing the cap exemption for nutrients would also be very easy.
-The extra flags on tech would be doable, but would require describing exactly what effect each flag should have.  Flags on facilities would require redoing facility setup to allow flags, a huge (but allowing a lot of possibilities) project.  Changing the quantity of existing bonuses, or tacking on bonuses to specific facilities, would be a lot easier.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on August 20, 2015, 06:49:26 AM
Hmm ok based on these I would actually change this a little,  Picking two items for native life since I think it's pretty core to the theme of the game.
1) PSI defense by PLANET as a combat variable
2) An option to flatten the curve of amount alien life per fungal pop somehow.  Not sure if any others are playing with zero clean minerals but what I find happens is that ecodamage is irrelevant early on, and later on its borderline unmanageable even with picking Green.  The game should be this way a bit but it's too extreme like the tech curve issues.  I guess there would be two approaches - TECH removed from ecodamage formula or fungal pop size scaling with ecodamage (and ecodamage chance as more of a constant / or a cap on pops per turn...I have to think on this a bit more)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 20, 2015, 12:32:03 PM
Hmm ok based on these I would actually change this a little,  Picking two items for native life since I think it's pretty core to the theme of the game.
1) PSI defense by PLANET as a combat variable

Nominated.

Quote
2) An option to flatten the curve of amount alien life per fungal pop somehow.  Not sure if any others are playing with zero clean minerals but what I find happens is that ecodamage is irrelevant early on, and later on its borderline unmanageable even with picking Green.  The game should be this way a bit but it's too extreme like the tech curve issues.  I guess there would be two approaches - TECH removed from ecodamage formula or fungal pop size scaling with ecodamage (and ecodamage chance as more of a constant / or a cap on pops per turn...I have to think on this a bit more)

Actually, both of those are on the to-do list for 3.5 (I added them myself).  So you can nominate something else instead.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on August 20, 2015, 06:32:43 PM
Ok I'll go with something that might be relatively simple?
- a flag to modify the PLANET rating of alien life (0 by default)
This could be changed to make the alien life itself more or less deadly as a sort of difficulty slider (I think the game puts in some hidden modifiers based on turns, difficulty, vs base already that aren't shown on the combat display)
Do you consider AI not polluting a bug?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 20, 2015, 09:28:32 PM
Ok I'll go with something that might be relatively simple?
- a flag to modify the PLANET rating of alien life (0 by default)
This could be changed to make the alien life itself more or less deadly as a sort of difficulty slider (I think the game puts in some hidden modifiers based on turns, difficulty, vs base already that aren't shown on the combat display)

Ok, nominated.

Quote
Do you consider AI not polluting a bug?

You have a savegame where it should pollute but doesn't?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on August 21, 2015, 01:25:20 AM
Actually I tested this, the AI just gets a large reduction to ecodamage (I got around 18% ecodamage that a human player would have on Transcend)
See attached game you can swap Firaxians from Human/AI to get different ecodamage.  With my settings it's 13/69 but it will differ with the defaults I'm sure.  Could be something like 1/5 if both of those are rounded down

But I wasn't able to make the AI trigger a fungal pop in 20 turns.  May have to test this more.  Interestingly the AI was prioritizing Green and Ecodamage facilities when I made this base and maxed out tech for them.  Had never seen that before.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 21, 2015, 02:32:08 AM
Yeah, that's not a bug; the ecodamage formula says that DIFFICULTY is 3 except on the two highest difficulty levels, but in fact this is only for human players.  AI has DIFFICULTY of 2 on Thinker and 1 on Transcend.

Basically, on Thinker human players get +2/3 to ecodamage and AI gets -1/3, and on Transcend it's +2/3 and -2/3.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on August 21, 2015, 03:25:02 AM
Good to know.  I used Free Drones instead and ran the game about 50 turns.  What I saw was that fungus was popping around the AI base however never once did native life spawn - even after a dozen or more pops.  I know if a human player had that many you would be getting significant amounts of native life.

Another thing I saw was that the roaming native life seems to scale up with the highest player's TECH (not the fungal pops).  Was seeing Locusts of Chiron wandering around in YR 2102.  This might be a known fact also.

I may have also discovered a bug while playing around with this.  It seems the AI can trigger a second (or more) Global Energy Market victory before the current one has run its 20 turns.  I think this will set back the timer to 20 turns from the current turn.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 21, 2015, 03:50:27 AM
Good to know.  I used Free Drones instead and ran the game about 50 turns.  What I saw was that fungus was popping around the AI base however never once did native life spawn - even after a dozen or more pops.  I know if a human player had that many you would be getting significant amounts of native life.

As part of 3.5, I'll be analyzing the rules for when native life pops.

Quote
Another thing I saw was that the roaming native life seems to scale up with the highest player's TECH (not the fungal pops).  Was seeing Locusts of Chiron wandering around in YR 2102.  This might be a known fact also.

Don't know if it was known, but it's definitely interesting, and probably worth keeping (especially if the pop frequency doesn't scale with tech as well.)

Quote
I may have also discovered a bug while playing around with this.  It seems the AI can trigger a second (or more) Global Energy Market victory before the current one has run its 20 turns.  I think this will set back the timer to 20 turns from the current turn.

Feel free to nominate it for fixing (assuming you haven't already nominated two bugs).
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on August 21, 2015, 04:10:00 AM
Yea I think the roaming life 'evolving' with TECH is fine.

I'll nominate the Global Energy Market bug then for a bug fix, the other 2 nominations were features

Another thing I should note is that forests seemed to grow abnormally fast over the AI fungal pops.  Almost always within a turn if not two, and I think sometimes even if forest wasn't directly bordering.  Might be related to the native life not spawning in some strange way.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 21, 2015, 12:57:27 PM
Yea I think the roaming life 'evolving' with TECH is fine.

I'll nominate the Global Energy Market bug then for a bug fix, the other 2 nominations were features

Nominated.  Although I'll probably decide to include both of the features in 3.5 (without voting), since once I'm in the area anyway for the bonus to projectile weapons vs. energy armor and vice versa it should be quite easy.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on August 22, 2015, 09:29:04 PM
Ok I'll nominate the sliding scale idea I had for SE switching costs I had awhile back. 
A formula something like: energy cost = faction population*(number of SE changes)^2

I think the slow conversion implementation would be a lot of work for what it'd be worth.  A simpler implementation I had was something like Civ where you would have an X turn delay (~4) before your new SE choices would come into effect, rather than an energy cost.  Maybe not a huge deal I don't know others thoughts on this one
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: DrazharLn on August 22, 2015, 10:54:28 PM
An extra cost for having recently changed policy would be good,too. Some factor based on number of SE Changes over last 50years or something. I guess smac might not track that, though.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on August 23, 2015, 02:21:45 AM
Personally I kind of preferred the costless switching like in Civ2.  From a builder SE set to momentum SE set the energy isn't a big factor, but in the other direction it's more difficult.  In some ways I feel like a delay to change between SEs was a better gameplay design (and more realistic)

Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 23, 2015, 02:54:01 AM
Ok I'll nominate the sliding scale idea I had for SE switching costs I had awhile back. 
A formula something like: energy cost = faction population*(number of SE changes)^2

Is this replacing one of your existing nominations?  When I say they'd make it into 3.5 without a vote because I'm there anyway, that doesn't mean they don't take up nominations.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on August 23, 2015, 03:22:18 AM
Na keep the nominations as they are
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on August 25, 2015, 09:42:15 PM
Yea I think the roaming life 'evolving' with TECH is fine.

I'll nominate the Global Energy Market bug then for a bug fix, the other 2 nominations were features

Another thing I should note is that forests seemed to grow abnormally fast over the AI fungal pops.  Almost always within a turn if not two, and I think sometimes even if forest wasn't directly bordering.  Might be related to the native life not spawning in some strange way.
It appears as though the cap for the maximum ecodamage at a base has a relationship to the number of technologies that a faction has discovered. I believe this particular area ignores the free starting technology.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 25, 2015, 10:03:27 PM
It appears as though the cap for the maximum ecodamage at a base has a relationship to the number of technologies that a faction has discovered. I believe this particular area ignores the free starting technology.

I don't remember there being such a cap.  But yes, the free starting tech(s) do(es)n't count toward techs for ecodamage.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on August 25, 2015, 10:16:35 PM
Yea I don't think there's an ecodamage cap.  Can be in the thousands or more if you make the ecodamage divisor small.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nevill on August 29, 2015, 12:12:47 AM
Is it possible to make Infiltration last a set amount of turns instead of it being 'for life'?

Can the amount of drones the spies incite through Drone Riots action be altered? Can their position be altered to that of Pacifist Drones, or potentially even more influental, so that even police couldn't handle them (only Talents)?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on August 29, 2015, 05:11:00 AM
Could be PROBE SE dependent even, somehow.  But it's your suggestion
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nevill on August 29, 2015, 08:42:39 AM
Well, I don't have a formula or something. I'd just prefer to see a line in alphax.txt that sets the limits for each PROBE setting, like this:

-2/-1/0/+1/+2/+3 - PROBE rating of an infiltrated base.
20/15/10/5/3/1 - turns of infiltration.

The PROBE rating of a base exists to factor in the Covert Ops center.

Alternatively, it could factor the PROBE rating of a whole faction, making running Fundy a way to nullify enemy infiltration.

Say, the Infiltration action adds 100 infiltration points. Each turn subtracts the number of points depending on the faction's PROBE setting.
-2 subtracts 5 points, making infiltration last for 20 turns.
-1 subtracts 7 points, making it last 15.
0 subtracts 10 points
+1 subtracts 15
+2 subtracts 30
+3 subtracts 50

An infiltration against a faction with +2 rating would only last 4 turns. Might make Fundy worth adopting once in a while. Multiple infiltration actions can be taken in different bases to increase the infiltration points counter (infiltrating the same base twice could provide diminishing returns as it works now with stealing techs and increased risks).

I am not hung on exact implementation, as long as Infiltration isn't 'for life' and is customizable.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 30, 2015, 03:46:51 AM
Is it possible to make Infiltration last a set amount of turns instead of it being 'for life'?


It'd be tricky due to the need to keep track of the amount, but I could probably either do it or move substantially toward being able to do it (depending on the exact details of some of the program's internals; I'd need to make room for stuff).

Either way, having exact values for each PROBE setting might be a bit much; better to just set the "X points, and each turn subtracts Y points minus Z per point of PROBE" approach.  Since infiltration is faction-wide, Covert Ops center probably shouldn't affect it.

Quote
Can the amount of drones the spies incite through Drone Riots action be altered? Can their position be altered to that of Pacifist Drones, or potentially even more influental, so that even police couldn't handle them (only Talents)?


The amount of the effect could be altered; however, that is not the major limiting factor.  Take a look at this (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=3692.0) thread.

Bigger changes, like letting them exceed the limit on "captured base" drones or special details about what can handle them, would be a lot trickier, though again probably doable.

So let me know what changes in particular you'd like...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nevill on August 30, 2015, 08:19:12 AM
Either way, having exact values for each PROBE setting might be a bit much; better to just set the "X points, and each turn subtracts Y points minus Z per point of PROBE" approach.
Sure, that should do it.

The amount of the effect could be altered; however, that is not the major limiting factor.
If I understood the thread correctly, increasing the "turns until assimilation" value one gets from inciting Drone Riots and playing with drone control code of 16+ should do it. In that case we just need an option to set the value manually.

However, I wondered if this couldn't have been made more useful with vanilla rules by moving the effect from Base Drones to Pacifist Drones/Police, making it harder to block.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 30, 2015, 01:01:25 PM
Either way, having exact values for each PROBE setting might be a bit much; better to just set the "X points, and each turn subtracts Y points minus Z per point of PROBE" approach.
Sure, that should do it.

The amount of the effect could be altered; however, that is not the major limiting factor.
If I understood the thread correctly, increasing the "turns until assimilation" value one gets from inciting Drone Riots and playing with drone control code of 16+ should do it.

Only up to a point, since "drones from conquered base" is capped at (BaseSize + Difficulty - 2) ÷ 4.

Quote
In that case we just need an option to set the value manually.

If that's what you want to nominate, sure.

Quote
However, I wondered if this couldn't have been made more useful with vanilla rules by moving the effect from Base Drones to Pacifist Drones/Police, making it harder to block.

The problem is that pacifist drones are normally calculated on a turn-by-turn basis, so unless you want it to be non-persistent (apply only on the turn of the probe team action), that would be somewhat tricky to implement.  (You can still nominate it if you'd like, though.)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Vidsek on August 31, 2015, 04:47:30 AM
  Some questions for Yitsi so I can make a better decision on what to nominate: how easy/doable are these (and for the rest of you, would you like them too, or not care?)

1) Unity pods: currently the scenario editor allows some choices on what does or does not pop out of them.  I would like total control of their contents: items, events, and the chance of each.
If this was only in the scenario editor, I'd be happy enough.
If it could be done for auto-generated games as well, even better.  (Tho that would, I guess, mean even more lines and choices in alphax...not sure it that would be a good thing...).

2) A redo of the Unit Design window to eliminate all the scrolling back and forth.
3)Stop the AI from auto-designing units when you get a better reactor.  Or have a toggle to disable that annoyance.

4) Territorial boundries in water areas: A) From LAND bases: need to go further - in RL on earth ALL countries are
  allowed control of their near-coastal waters (the 12 Mile Limit, etc.)  So: any water tiles w/n the (8 tile or whatever)
  area from a land base should be checked for inclusion in it's territory.  Limits: Distance from the shoreline (this
  could be one, or my preference, up to two tiles. This would also give ownership of small lakes inside the boundary.
  B) OCEAN bases: Same as current but one or two tiles farther radius from the base.  Land w/n a waterbase's territorial
  area: The base should have a chance to own small islands and some shoreline.  Perhaps make it's claim secondary to
  any land base, and in any case not extending past the immediate shoreline tiles (one, or at most, two tiles inland).

5) Ability to adjust the frequency and duration of communication interruptions (solar flares).

6) Ability to restrict where sea bases can be placed: ie.: any water; not over trenches; only over shelf.
    Being able to restrict them by water depth (eg. only over shelf of x meters depth or less) would be even more
    interesting, but is probably over-kill.....

7) When you turn over a base to an ally, military units auto-move to the nearest base of their faction...what happens to
 formers and other NON-military owned by the base given away?  Do they go to the ally or just poof?  I can't seem to
 find them anywhere...  If they disappear, that's a bug.

Enough for now  :D   Most of the suggestions/nominations from other folks seem excellent to me.  The more basic design aspects of the game (UI and such) tend to get my own attention more often.  Especially the annoying or tedious ones and ones that limit the game's possibilities and replay value.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 31, 2015, 02:45:02 PM
  Some questions for Yitsi so I can make a better decision on what to nominate: how easy/doable are these (and for the rest of you, would you like them too, or not care?)

1) Unity pods: currently the scenario editor allows some choices on what does or does not pop out of them.  I would like total control of their contents: items, events, and the chance of each.
If this was only in the scenario editor, I'd be happy enough.

If by "total control" you mean "anything you can think of can be added without more .exe modding", that is as close to impossible as it's likely to get.

But if you just want to be able to add specific types of events and units, that would likely be doable (with some limited control up to the modder), depending on what you want to add.

Even so, doing it through the scenario editor would be fairly difficult, but through a text file would be doable.

Quote
If it could be done for auto-generated games as well, even better.  (Tho that would, I guess, mean even more lines and choices in alphax...not sure it that would be a good thing...).

There's a reason that I do things that way; it's a lot easier than adding it to a scenario.

Though something this big would probably be better done by its own goody.txt.

Quote
2) A redo of the Unit Design window to eliminate all the scrolling back and forth.

A complete redesign would be fairly tricky, but to simply stay where you were when deleting a unit would probably be quite feasible.

Quote
3)Stop the AI from auto-designing units when you get a better reactor.  Or have a toggle to disable that annoyance.

Probably not that difficult, but as an automatic stop is not going to happen (since some people might want it), and it's not likely to get that much support in any case, since someone who dislikes reactor-based auto-designs will probably usually dislike all auto-designs and therefore just use the existing option to turn off auto-designs.

Quote
4) Territorial boundries in water areas: A) From LAND bases: need to go further - in RL on earth ALL countries are
  allowed control of their near-coastal waters (the 12 Mile Limit, etc.)  So: any water tiles w/n the (8 tile or whatever)
  area from a land base should be checked for inclusion in it's territory.  Limits: Distance from the shoreline (this
  could be one, or my preference, up to two tiles. This would also give ownership of small lakes inside the boundary.
  B) OCEAN bases: Same as current but one or two tiles farther radius from the base.  Land w/n a waterbase's territorial
  area: The base should have a chance to own small islands and some shoreline.  Perhaps make it's claim secondary to
  any land base, and in any case not extending past the immediate shoreline tiles (one, or at most, two tiles inland).

Changing the rules of territory would definitely be doable.

Quote
5) Ability to adjust the frequency and duration of communication interruptions (solar flares).

Fairly easy.

Quote
6) Ability to restrict where sea bases can be placed: ie.: any water; not over trenches; only over shelf.
    Being able to restrict them by water depth (eg. only over shelf of x meters depth or less) would be even more
    interesting, but is probably over-kill.....

Definitely could be done (the latter would only be a bit harder than the former), though you'd have to decide if the Pirates would be immune after learning Advanced Ecological Engineering.

Quote
7) When you turn over a base to an ally, military units auto-move to the nearest base of their faction...what happens to
 formers and other NON-military owned by the base given away?  Do they go to the ally or just poof?  I can't seem to
 find them anywhere...  If they disappear, that's a bug.

You can certainly nominate it for investigation and fixing if necessary.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 31, 2015, 02:54:01 PM
There's a post on CFC wishing there was a way to turn off auto-upgrades when new reactor tech is discovered.

I wouldn't mind never having to delete -a bunch of new default units from the select screen each time- ever again...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 31, 2015, 02:55:51 PM
There's a post on CFC wishing there was a way to turn off auto-upgrades when new reactor tech is discovered.

But he wants auto-designed units otherwise?

Or do reactor auto-upgrades happen even without when auto-design is off?  Because if so, that makes the request a lot more significant, and I could certainly do it.

Quote
I wouldn't mind never having to delete -a bunch of new default units from the select screen each time- ever again...

Can't that be accomplished just by turning off autodesign?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 31, 2015, 03:17:00 PM
Nope.  I totally turned autodesign off 18 years ago - which is why I mind the reactor default upgrades cluttering my unit build select screen.  I'll take care of the upgrades myself, thanks, AC.

There's a related exploit, BTW, where I can get a chassis upgrade on one class of unit, if I'm clever, and which shouldn't be possible at all.  I'm sure I've written it up before in this folder w/ screenies - a bunch of tractor-chassis formers turn hovertank and get a free extra move(s) that turn.


Quote from: usnavyet;13944094
Is it possible to get the game to NOT create new designs whenever a new reactor becomes available? For one thing in simple basic designs the higher reactor raises the cost, and second I'm a little bit anal about my designs. It's a pain to go in and obsolete all the new designs I don't want and then retire them to clear the slots. Thanks for any help, and it's hard to believe I ever stopped playing this game!!!

Quote from: Petek;13944791
I don't know of any way to stop this. Just before researching a new reactor, I try to upgrade outdated units and obsolete designs that aren't being used. Doing so reduces the number of predesigned new units.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=551692 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=551692)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 31, 2015, 03:20:25 PM
Ok, so then that can definitely be nominated, as it should be quite possible.  If you start a poll on the matter, we can even see whether people consider it a bug that it happens even with autodesign disabled, and if so it would be able to be done as a bugfix instead.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 31, 2015, 03:29:29 PM
Be my guest; I don't start polls and I don't understand your nomination process.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Eadee on August 31, 2015, 07:59:28 PM
@ Vidsek
I like your points 4) and 5) . I think you should nominate them. :)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nevill on August 31, 2015, 09:35:39 PM
Yitzi, did you take a look at the artillery bombardment code? There is a whole assortment of bugs involving it:

- Artillery units can not use their 'Empath Song' special ability, even for artillery duels with Spore Launchers. In fact, they can't use most of their abilities, such as Dissociative Wave and Soporific Gas Pods. Nerve Gas Pods work fine for arty duels, though not for bombardment. May be connected to:
- Spore launchers don't benefit from factional combat bonuses (both offensive and defensive) and Gaian psi bonuses when engaged in an artillery duel, at least with other spore launchers.
- Units get defense bonuses against artillery in open ground (flat/rolling tiles), rocky tiles, and fungus tiles. Pretty much the only tiles that do not get the bonus are forests and bases. Not sure if intended. Previously discussed here: http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7420 (http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7420)
- Land-based artillery gets +50% defensive bonus against naval units which is not documented anywhere.
- The ship in shallow water gets an altitude bonus against a ship in a trench. scient wanted to fix it, but apparently didn't?
- Land/sea artillery duels last only one round. Discussed here: http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7448 (http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7448)
- "If you bombard a square when an enemy's artillery unit is nearby, you are counter-attacked, and, having spent 100% of your turn, are effectively dead due to -100% hasty penalty. Wasn't the duel supposed to happen before you bombard a square and spend your turn? Second, sometimes this happens even with friendlies! You can almost certainly reproduce it with two ships near each other bombarding some tile not far away. More often than not it will result in one of the ships being sunk. Third, sometimes you don't even need another ship as even one of them can initiate a duel with itself trying to bombard a tile! I still haven't figured the exact conditions, though." Discussed here: http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7421 (http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7421) Example can be found here: http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7528 (http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7528)
- Wild spore launchers often attack each other. May be due to the above bug with friendlies dueling friendlies.
- Artillery may fire from a sea transport via right-click abuse. Briefly discussed here: http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7486 (http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7486)
-  Normally, if your artillery unit does not have Air Superiority ability, it can't damage Needlejets. If, however, there happens to be an arty unit in the stack under a Needlejet unit, and it loses a duel to yours, all the units in the stack, *including* the Needlejets, will be injured from collateral damage. This happens regardless of whether your arty has Air Superiority or not.
- Sometimes when you engage units in an artillery duel, your units next to the attacking one may lose a turn. Found by accident in this thread, complete with a save file: http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7197 (http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7197)

I nominate this as a Total Rewrite of Artillery Duel logic.

IMO, we need to establish:
- Whether arty units can have special abilities like Nerve Gas pods & Soporific pods. If yes, how they should be working. My opinion is that they should apply in all combat encounters.
- Which bonuses and penalties should apply. My opinion is that the bonuses from Rocky terrain and Fungus should be the only ones affecting the outcome. The ones in open ground and shallow water (clearly a bug), or against 'naval guns' need not apply, but that is quite subjective. The best way would be to let the players set values for different conditions themselves, if possible.
- Whether or not one-round combat between land and sea arty is a bug. (My opinion is - yes)
- Whether or not using artillery from a transport is a bug (this one needs fixing either way, depending on the decision - there are contradictions in game logic. My opinion is that it should be allowed and that the restriction should be lifted).
- Whether or not using artillery should have a 'hasty bonus' and how it should apply. (My opinion is - yes, as long as the one below gets sorted out)
- Whether or not using artillery should be able to protect nearby tiles from bombardment. (My opinion is - yes, but it should lead to the duel before the bombardment of the tile commences, rather than after)
- Fix the bug with arty attacking friendlies or themselves.
- Fix the bug with being able to damage Needlejets via collateral damage.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on August 31, 2015, 11:27:13 PM
Yitzi, did you take a look at the artillery bombardment code?


No, though some of these are in the "bonuses" code, which I did look at.  Often the real issue, though, is determining what's a bug and what's a feature.  (Where it is clearly a bug, feel free to nominate up to two for the vote on what to fix.)

Quote
- Artillery units can not use their 'Empath Song' special ability, even for artillery duels with Spore Launchers.


I don't know if this is a bug, or a feature like the non-application to artillery of many other bonuses.

Quote
In fact, they can't use most of their abilities, such as Dissociative Wave and Soporific Gas Pods.


Actually, those both do seem to work; I tried Dissociative Wave against ECM and it worked fine, and Soporific Gas Pods worked fine as well.

Quote
Nerve Gas Pods work fine for arty duels, though not for bombardment.


But it does ask about it...feel free to nominate it for a fix.

Quote
- Spore launchers don't benefit from factional combat bonuses (both offensive and defensive) and Gaian psi bonuses when engaged in an artillery duel, at least with other spore launchers.


This does not seem to be the case.

Quote
- Units get defense bonuses against artillery in open ground (flat/rolling tiles), rocky tiles, and fungus tiles. Pretty much the only tiles that do not get the bonus are forests and bases. Not sure if intended.


Me either.  Get a consensus, and I can implement whatever is decided.

Quote
- Land-based artillery gets +50% defensive bonus against naval units which is not documented anywhere.


True.

Quote
- The ship in shallow water gets an altitude bonus against a ship in a trench. scient wanted to fix it, but apparently didn't?


I also wanted to fix it, and did.

Quote
- Land/sea artillery duels last only one round. Discussed here: http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7448 (http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7448)


More than one round, but not until one is dead.  I'm not so sure that's a bug, so I'm not fixing it (except as a moddable feature) without a consensus.

Quote
- "If you bombard a square when an enemy's artillery unit is nearby, you are counter-attacked, and, having spent 100% of your turn, are effectively dead due to -100% hasty penalty. Wasn't the duel supposed to happen before you bombard a square and spend your turn? Second, sometimes this happens even with friendlies! You can almost certainly reproduce it with two ships near each other bombarding some tile not far away. More often than not it will result in one of the ships being sunk. Third, sometimes you don't even need another ship as even one of them can initiate a duel with itself trying to bombard a tile! I still haven't figured the exact conditions, though." Discussed here: http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7421 (http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7421) Example can be found here: http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7528 (http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7528)


I'm not sure either, but if you can provide a savegame to reproduce the 100% penalty, that would be good.

Quote
- Wild spore launchers often attack each other. May be due to the above bug with friendlies dueling friendlies.


Likely, but I think I fixed it; let me know if it shows up in patch version 3.4 or later.

Quote
- Artillery may fire from a sea transport via right-click abuse. Briefly discussed here: http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7486 (http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7486)


Sounds like a bug; feel free to nominate it.

Quote
-  Normally, if your artillery unit does not have Air Superiority ability, it can't damage Needlejets. If, however, there happens to be an arty unit in the stack under a Needlejet unit, and it loses a duel to yours, all the units in the stack, *including* the Needlejets, will be injured from collateral damage. This happens regardless of whether your arty has Air Superiority or not.


A bit strange, but needlejet-containing stacks are weird anyway, as is collateral damage.  Proposed rule changes can be nominated as moddable features, or you can try to get a consensus that it's a bug and should be fixed.

Quote
I nominate this as a Total Rewrite of Artillery Duel logic.


Total rewrites can't be done without first examining the relevant code and providing it before deciding what to rewrite.  Even that wouldn't affect what bonuses and penalties apply (except for maybe nerve gas, since that's not in the normal bonuses/penalties code).

Total rewrites are also a big deal if they're not bugfixes, as the original needs to be present as well so that modders can decide which they want.

Quote
IMO, we need to establish:
- Whether arty units can have special abilities like Nerve Gas pods & Soporific pods. If yes, how they should be working. My opinion is that they should apply in all combat encounters.
- Which bonuses and penalties should apply. My opinion is that the bonuses from Rocky terrain and Fungus should be the only ones affecting the outcome. The ones in open ground and shallow water (clearly a bug), or against 'naval guns' need not apply, but that is quite subjective. The best way would be to let the players set values for different conditions themselves, if possible.
- Whether or not one-round combat between land and sea arty is a bug. (My opinion is - yes)
- Whether or not using artillery from a transport is a bug (this one needs fixing either way, depending on the decision - there are contradictions in game logic. My opinion is that it should be allowed and that the restriction should be lifted).
- Whether or not using artillery should have a 'hasty bonus' and how it should apply. (My opinion is - yes, as long as the one below gets sorted out)
- Whether or not using artillery should be able to protect nearby tiles from bombardment. (My opinion is - yes, but it should lead to the duel before the bombardment of the tile commences, rather than after)
- Fix the bug with arty attacking friendlies or themselves.
- Fix the bug with being able to damage Needlejets via collateral damage.


Get a consensus regarding anything you want fixed as a bugfix, and decide what you want changeable independently of what for anything else.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Vidsek on September 01, 2015, 12:09:54 AM
Still not a nomination post, but close.

 @Yitzi: I overstated what I wanted with the Unity Pods.  Nothing new, just control over what already exists.

Unity Pods have an existing list of what can happen when you open one.  Some, but not all, of these can be disabled in the Scenario Editor (no vehicles, no Monoliths, etc.).  Many cannot be disabled, and the chance of each cannot be modified.

I would like us to be able to choose from that list and for each item/event set the chance of it occuring (including no chance at all).
The point would be to make it possible to fit the pods into the gameplay in ways other than just wild cards (and restrict some of the illogical or just plain annoying events).

I do not have any idea of how the game AI sets the chances, it doesn't seem completely random in my tests.  Besides there being a different set of choices for sea tiles vs. land ones, there seem to be some other rules involved which I haven't been able to puzzle out.
Finding where all this is located in the code, how it works, and figuring the best way to change it may well become too much time spent when there is so much else to do.

I'll save it for another update.



Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Vidsek on September 01, 2015, 12:18:42 AM
My nominations:

1) Territorial Boundary adjustments.  (mostly larger sea, and more overlap at shorelines)

2) Solar Flare/communication disruption - control of how often and how long.

Bugfixes:

1) Stop AI auto-design of new units with each new reactor DESPITE auto-design being turned off.

2) Non-combat units going AWOL when a base is turned over to another faction.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 01, 2015, 03:27:16 AM
Still not a nomination post, but close.

 @Yitzi: I overstated what I wanted with the Unity Pods.  Nothing new, just control over what already exists.

Unity Pods have an existing list of what can happen when you open one.  Some, but not all, of these can be disabled in the Scenario Editor (no vehicles, no Monoliths, etc.).  Many cannot be disabled, and the chance of each cannot be modified.

I would like us to be able to choose from that list and for each item/event set the chance of it occuring (including no chance at all).

That would definitely be doable.

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I do not have any idea of how the game AI sets the chances, it doesn't seem completely random in my tests.  Besides there being a different set of choices for sea tiles vs. land ones, there seem to be some other rules involved which I haven't been able to puzzle out.

If I do end up working on that, the first step will be to read all those rules.

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Finding where all this is located in the code, how it works, and figuring the best way to change it may well become too much time spent when there is so much else to do.

That's what the voting is for.

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I'll save it for another update.

Ok.

My nominations:

1) Territorial Boundary adjustments.  (mostly larger sea, and more overlap at shorelines)

2) Solar Flare/communication disruption - control of how often and how long.

Bugfixes:

1) Stop AI auto-design of new units with each new reactor DESPITE auto-design being turned off.

2) Non-combat units going AWOL when a base is turned over to another faction.

Ok, all nominated.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nevill on September 01, 2015, 10:20:29 PM
I'm not sure either, but if you can provide a savegame to reproduce the 100% penalty, that would be good.

Sure.
http://www.4shared.com/file/2I9dbG0Pce/Aki_Zeta-5_of_the_Consciousnes.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/2I9dbG0Pce/Aki_Zeta-5_of_the_Consciousnes.html)

Conditions: be at war with the faction, be in range of the enemy artillery, successfully bombard the enemy territory that is in range of enemy artillery.
Consequences: you will spend your turn, and will be counter-bombarded with a 100% success chance as your power will be reduced to 0 due to a -100% penalty.

Suggestion: the duel should trigger before the attacker's turn is spent and instead of tile bombardment.

Also, there is a separate bug, or rather, an inconsistency you might notice in the order of how things are done. You can order a unit to bombard a tile that belongs to another faction, and that does not prompt 'do you want to break the truce' message by itself. If you fail the bombardment roll, your unit loses the turn, and that's it. The message is prompted only if you succeed in bombarding the tile, and the explosion animation is played. If, however, you refuse to declare vendetta, the improvements in the tile are not destroyed, as if nothing has happened.

How it should work - whenever you try to bombard a tile that belongs to another faction, the prompt to pronounce vendetta should appear. If you decline, the attack doesn't happen and the unit doesn't lose the turn. If you accept, you declare the vendetta and make thebombardment roll, with the usual results. If you fail - the unit loses turn. If you win, the improvement in the tile is destroyed.

Also, could you please look at this save file?
http://www.4shared.com/file/VS2MHq9Xba/Combat_vs_air_units.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/VS2MHq9Xba/Combat_vs_air_units.html)
Use the cruiser to attack the wounded foil under a needlejet. Once of your foils (the leftmost one) loses a turn. What could possibly be causing this?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 01, 2015, 11:31:15 PM
I'm not sure either, but if you can provide a savegame to reproduce the 100% penalty, that would be good.

Sure.
http://www.4shared.com/file/2I9dbG0Pce/Aki_Zeta-5_of_the_Consciousnes.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/2I9dbG0Pce/Aki_Zeta-5_of_the_Consciousnes.html)


I can't seem to get the save file to download without involving any downloaded .exe files.  Maybe you can just attach your version in this thread?

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Suggestion: the duel should trigger before the attacker's turn is spent and instead of tile bombardment.


Clearly that should be the result...

Quote
Also, there is a separate bug, or rather, an inconsistency you might notice in the order of how things are done. You can order a unit to bombard a tile that belongs to another faction, and that does not prompt 'do you want to break the truce' message by itself. If you fail the bombardment roll, your unit loses the turn, and that's it. The message is prompted only if you succeed in bombarding the tile, and the explosion animation is played. If, however, you refuse to declare vendetta, the improvements in the tile are not destroyed, as if nothing has happened.

How it should work - whenever you try to bombard a tile that belongs to another faction, the prompt to pronounce vendetta should appear. If you decline, the attack doesn't happen and the unit doesn't lose the turn. If you accept, you declare the vendetta and make thebombardment roll, with the usual results. If you fail - the unit loses turn. If you win, the improvement in the tile is destroyed.


Seems reasonable.  However, you're limited to two bugfix nominations, so decide what you want to nominate.

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Also, could you please look at this save file?
http://www.4shared.com/file/VS2MHq9Xba/Combat_vs_air_units.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/VS2MHq9Xba/Combat_vs_air_units.html)


Again, 4shared doesn't work well for me, just attach it to your post right here.

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Use the cruiser to attack the wounded foil under a needlejet. Once of your foils (the leftmost one) loses a turn. What could possibly be causing this?


Sounds like a bug that I could investigate and fix.  So post the files in the thread (or their own threads if you prefer, but not 4shared), and decide which bugfixes you want to nominate.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nevill on September 02, 2015, 06:10:25 AM
Again, 4shared doesn't work well for me, just attach it to your post right here.
Done:
Combat vs air units.SAV - for movement bug demonstration
Aki Zeta-5 of the Consciousness, 2102.SAV - for hasty bug demonstration.

Is there a bug tracker thread or something where I can dump bug reports if I encounter any without creating separate threads or nominating them? I glanced at the forum but I see that every bug has a dedicated topic. Maybe there is a wiki entry for this stuff?

Anyway, I nominate 'limited Infiltration' and 'sea vs land combat to the death' as features, and fixing Artillery 'hasty' duels (and maybe some other associated quirks if they are somewhere near that particular piece of code) as a bugfix.
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Either way, having exact values for each PROBE setting might be a bit much; better to just set the "X points, and each turn subtracts Y points minus Z per point of PROBE" approach.
Quote
More than one round, but not until one is dead.  I'm not so sure that's a bug, so I'm not fixing it (except as a moddable feature) without a consensus.
The reason to nominate the latter as a feature is that even though I might be able to get a consensus about it on this forum, there might still be people who disagree (I've linked to a discussion on another forum - no consensus was reached there).

I also nominate wrong timing of truce-breakingprompt for another bugfix. One example is above. Another one could be reproduced thusly: have a neutral (truce/treaty) faction's base with an interceptor and a unit (say, former) in it's interception radius. Try to attack the former with your air unit (say, needlejet). The interceptor will move to intercept first, and then, when it is in position, you will be asked whether or not you want to break a truce/treaty. If you refuse, the interceptor does not return to base and can no longer intercept any other units. You can effectively lure planes out of bases without breaking your diplomatic status.To me it's clear that the game is supposed to ask you about breaking truce when you attack the former, and only if you do should the interceptor be dispatched.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 02, 2015, 12:07:25 PM
Again, 4shared doesn't work well for me, just attach it to your post right here.
Done:
Combat vs air units.SAV - for movement bug demonstration

Yep, that's a bug.  And it'll probably be an easy one, so I'll see if I can handle it easily for 3.5 without a nomination.

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Aki Zeta-5 of the Consciousness, 2102.SAV - for hasty bug demonstration.

That would probably be a bit trickier to fix, and would need a nomination and vote.

Quote
Is there a bug tracker thread or something where I can dump bug reports if I encounter any without creating separate threads or nominating them? I glanced at the forum but I see that every bug has a dedicated topic. Maybe there is a wiki entry for this stuff?

I wouldn't know.  Although if you dump a bug report without going through the nomination and voting process then it doesn't get on my priority list.

Quote
Anyway, I nominate 'limited Infiltration' and 'sea vs land combat to the death' as features, and fixing Artillery 'hasty' duels (and maybe some other associated quirks if they are somewhere near that particular piece of code) as a bugfix.

Ok, nominations accepted.

Quote
I also nominate wrong timing of truce-breakingprompt for another bugfix.

Nomination accepted.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: DrazharLn on September 04, 2015, 12:40:23 PM
There's no proper bug tracker. Management is slightly opposed to implementing one (unnecessary for current developers' workflow, takes attention from the forum) and we don't have the spare technical capacity to maintain one anyway.

Bugs have been tracked on a one thread per bug basis both at CGN (originally) and latterly here. I don't know if all the bugs mentioned on CGN have been dealt with or brought up here. I also don't know whether Yitzi or anyone systematically goes through the bugs that are reported here. They are good for referencing from threads like this, though.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 08, 2015, 04:40:51 PM
Well, I started investigating that movement bug, and it's due to the fact that artillery, unlike normal attacks, does not update the "current unit" value...so when it tries to set the current unit's movement to 0, it gets the wrong unit.

To fix it properly (i.e. without risking adding other bugs, and with fixing any other bugs that have the same cause) would require further investigating the artillery code, which is big enough that it'll need to go through the normal nomination-and-voting process.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 19, 2015, 12:30:43 AM
I am fairly certain that I have figured out where the function for the COMMFREQ Bonus exists. The actual test for the faction Bonus COMMFREQ occurs at address 005B3D36. I am uncertain exactly what occurs at this location. The other feaure I would want nominated is to fix the Morale Bonuses from Children's Creches and Brood Pits while a faction has a negative morale score.

COMMFREQ has already been fixed for 3.5.  But your nomination of fixing the effect of creches has been accepted.  (It's not clear what's even supposed to happen for Brood Pits, AFAIK.)
Based upon my analysis of the procedure, the effects of brood pits on the morale of Native Life is identical to that of Children's Creches except they appear to provide an additional +1 Morale bonus (including the bugs). The procedure for the visuals controls of the morale bonus starts at 004B3FD0. The procedure for the actual bonuses to morale from these facilities starts at address 00501940. Additionally, it appears as though Children's Creches also give Native Life the same Morale Bonus. However, the bonus from the Children's Creche does not stack with the bonus from a Brood Pit if both exist at the same base.
Speaking of bugs: I believe that when negating negative morale modifiers for units in a base with a creche, the game does not use this function, but rather just uses the result from social engineering/faction.  Thus, if the unit has the penalty reduced (either because that would put it below 0 or because its home base has a creche), the creche will actually add more than enough to compensate for the negative modifiers.

Also, while not technically a bug, the fact that the penalty is halved rounding down means that once you have creches, -1 MORALE is irrelevant (and so is -2 if you don't have command centers etc.).
Is it possible to have this particular feature nominated as a bugfix instead of as a feature because of your comment quoted above? I am also curious as to whether or not it is possible to have the Probe Team base morale limits nominated as a bugfix because I have made it function correctly. In addition, I have evidence that another individual thought it was a suspicious as well. The relevalent section of the quote from this individual's comment is below this sentence.

The first being how Probe teams can never be "Very Green" or "Green".  Rest of code relating to Probe team morale seems ok.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 19, 2015, 12:53:23 AM
If the above request receives an affirmative from Yitzi, than I want to nominate targetted probe team tech steal as an option. The basic task of making it function requires an individual to change the jump condition at address 005A0123 from JNZ to JE. After this receives a change, it becomes necessary to realize that the second option of the #Decipher script does not allow an individual to steal world maps. In addition, I think the script #Stolenothing does not operate as expected. The second feature I want to nominate, if the previous request receives an affirmative, is the ability to have the scripts #AdvEnergy and #AdvEnergy1 fixed so that they work. My best guess at the moment as to why they do not operate involves the fact that the flag that controls this particular interlock never becomes used at another location. An example of the manner in which these flags are implemented appears at address 005A33C2. This particular address and flag corresponds with the network interlock for stealing technology.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 20, 2015, 02:29:42 AM
I am fairly certain that I have figured out where the function for the COMMFREQ Bonus exists. The actual test for the faction Bonus COMMFREQ occurs at address 005B3D36. I am uncertain exactly what occurs at this location. The other feaure I would want nominated is to fix the Morale Bonuses from Children's Creches and Brood Pits while a faction has a negative morale score.

COMMFREQ has already been fixed for 3.5.  But your nomination of fixing the effect of creches has been accepted.  (It's not clear what's even supposed to happen for Brood Pits, AFAIK.)
Based upon my analysis of the procedure, the effects of brood pits on the morale of Native Life is identical to that of Children's Creches except they appear to provide an additional +1 Morale bonus (including the bugs). The procedure for the visuals controls of the morale bonus starts at 004B3FD0. The procedure for the actual bonuses to morale from these facilities starts at address 00501940. Additionally, it appears as though Children's Creches also give Native Life the same Morale Bonus. However, the bonus from the Children's Creche does not stack with the bonus from a Brood Pit if both exist at the same base.
Speaking of bugs: I believe that when negating negative morale modifiers for units in a base with a creche, the game does not use this function, but rather just uses the result from social engineering/faction.  Thus, if the unit has the penalty reduced (either because that would put it below 0 or because its home base has a creche), the creche will actually add more than enough to compensate for the negative modifiers.

Also, while not technically a bug, the fact that the penalty is halved rounding down means that once you have creches, -1 MORALE is irrelevant (and so is -2 if you don't have command centers etc.).
Is it possible to have this particular feature nominated as a bugfix instead of as a feature because of your comment quoted above? I am also curious as to whether or not it is possible to have the Probe Team base morale limits nominated as a bugfix because I have made it function correctly. In addition, I have evidence that another individual thought it was a suspicious as well. The relevalent section of the quote from this individual's comment is below this sentence.

The first being how Probe teams can never be "Very Green" or "Green".  Rest of code relating to Probe team morale seems ok.

The overcompensation could definitely be nominated as a bugfix, but the "making -1 MORALE irrelevant", while poor design, is not a bug and therefore a fix would need to be nominated as a feature.  The minimum of Disciplined is clearly intended by the designers...so whether you think it's a good idea or not, it's not a bug.

If the above request receives an affirmative from Yitzi

Better clarify whether what I just said counts as an affirmative here.

Quote
than I want to nominate targetted probe team tech steal as an option. The basic task of making it function requires an individual to change the jump condition at address 005A0123 from JNZ to JE. After this receives a change, it becomes necessary to realize that the second option of the #Decipher script does not allow an individual to steal world maps.

Should it?

Quote
In addition, I think the script #Stolenothing does not operate as expected.

How so?

Quote
The second feature I want to nominate, if the previous request receives an affirmative, is the ability to have the scripts #AdvEnergy and #AdvEnergy1 fixed so that they work. My best guess at the moment as to why they do not operate involves the fact that the flag that controls this particular interlock never becomes used at another location. An example of the manner in which these flags are implemented appears at address 005A33C2. This particular address and flag corresponds with the network interlock for stealing technology.

Ok...I'd have to investigate and see what's going on there.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 20, 2015, 11:24:58 PM
Quote
Quote
than I want to nominate targetted probe team tech steal as an option. The basic task of making it function requires an individual to change the jump condition at address 005A0123 from JNZ to JE. After this receives a change, it becomes necessary to realize that the second option of the #Decipher script does not allow an individual to steal world maps.

Should it?
Yes it should because every other script in this particular procedure has a jump if equal command in that particular section. That particular command difference is the reason that the script does not appear while you attempt to steal technology.
Quote
In addition, I think the script #Stolenothing does not operate as expected.

How so?

Ok...I'd have to investigate and see what's going on there.
The second option for the #Decipher script always results in the loss of the probe team if the targetted Faction does not have any Technology to steal. This occurs regardless of whether or not you have stolen the world map. I believe the #stolenothing script does not function because it is jumped over if the faction AI does not specific conditions activated before it even checks if the faction is human or AI controlled.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 20, 2015, 11:41:54 PM
I am fairly certain that I have figured out where the function for the COMMFREQ Bonus exists. The actual test for the faction Bonus COMMFREQ occurs at address 005B3D36. I am uncertain exactly what occurs at this location. The other feaure I would want nominated is to fix the Morale Bonuses from Children's Creches and Brood Pits while a faction has a negative morale score.

COMMFREQ has already been fixed for 3.5.  But your nomination of fixing the effect of creches has been accepted.  (It's not clear what's even supposed to happen for Brood Pits, AFAIK.)
Based upon my analysis of the procedure, the effects of brood pits on the morale of Native Life is identical to that of Children's Creches except they appear to provide an additional +1 Morale bonus (including the bugs). The procedure for the visuals controls of the morale bonus starts at 004B3FD0. The procedure for the actual bonuses to morale from these facilities starts at address 00501940. Additionally, it appears as though Children's Creches also give Native Life the same Morale Bonus. However, the bonus from the Children's Creche does not stack with the bonus from a Brood Pit if both exist at the same base.
Speaking of bugs: I believe that when negating negative morale modifiers for units in a base with a creche, the game does not use this function, but rather just uses the result from social engineering/faction.  Thus, if the unit has the penalty reduced (either because that would put it below 0 or because its home base has a creche), the creche will actually add more than enough to compensate for the negative modifiers.

Also, while not technically a bug, the fact that the penalty is halved rounding down means that once you have creches, -1 MORALE is irrelevant (and so is -2 if you don't have command centers etc.).
Is it possible to have this particular feature nominated as a bugfix instead of as a feature because of your comment quoted above? I am also curious as to whether or not it is possible to have the Probe Team base morale limits nominated as a bugfix because I have made it function correctly. In addition, I have evidence that another individual thought it was a suspicious as well. The relevalent section of the quote from this individual's comment is below this sentence.

The first being how Probe teams can never be "Very Green" or "Green".  Rest of code relating to Probe team morale seems ok.

The overcompensation could definitely be nominated as a bugfix, but the "making -1 MORALE irrelevant", while poor design, is not a bug and therefore a fix would need to be nominated as a feature.  The minimum of Disciplined is clearly intended by the designers...so whether you think it's a good idea or not, it's not a bug.

If the above request receives an affirmative from Yitzi

Better clarify whether what I just said counts as an affirmative here.

Quote
than I want to nominate targetted probe team tech steal as an option. The basic task of making it function requires an individual to change the jump condition at address 005A0123 from JNZ to JE. After this receives a change, it becomes necessary to realize that the second option of the #Decipher script does not allow an individual to steal world maps.

Should it?

Quote
In addition, I think the script #Stolenothing does not operate as expected.

How so?

Quote
The second feature I want to nominate, if the previous request receives an affirmative, is the ability to have the scripts #AdvEnergy and #AdvEnergy1 fixed so that they work. My best guess at the moment as to why they do not operate involves the fact that the flag that controls this particular interlock never becomes used at another location. An example of the manner in which these flags are implemented appears at address 005A33C2. This particular address and flag corresponds with the network interlock for stealing technology.

Ok...I'd have to investigate and see what's going on there.
I will then have the children's creche nominated as a bugfix with the expection of the -1 Morale feature. I also want to nominate as a bugfix the factenergy script. The two features I want nominated include the fixing of the AdvEnergy and AdvEnergy1 scripts, and a second option I will announce later.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 20, 2015, 11:48:20 PM
Would it be feasible to include the additional bonuses for the Citizens as described in the #CitizenHeck section of the help file? This might become my second nomination if it remains a viable option.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 21, 2015, 12:07:16 AM
The minimum of Disciplined is clearly intended by the designers...so whether you think it's a good idea or not, it's not a bug.
I believe it is reasonable to allow this option for individuals that want to play with both Probe Teams that start at the Green Morale Level and the associated features that come with this change. As a result, I believe it might become necessary for me to release a minor update that enables these features if you decide that you do not agree with Probe Teams starting at a Green morale level.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 21, 2015, 03:06:10 PM
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Quote
than I want to nominate targetted probe team tech steal as an option. The basic task of making it function requires an individual to change the jump condition at address 005A0123 from JNZ to JE. After this receives a change, it becomes necessary to realize that the second option of the #Decipher script does not allow an individual to steal world maps.

Should it?
Yes it should because every other script in this particular procedure has a jump if equal command in that particular section. That particular command difference is the reason that the script does not appear while you attempt to steal technology.
Quote
In addition, I think the script #Stolenothing does not operate as expected.

How so?

Ok...I'd have to investigate and see what's going on there.
The second option for the #Decipher script always results in the loss of the probe team if the targetted Faction does not have any Technology to steal. This occurs regardless of whether or not you have stolen the world map.

Ah, thank you.  That sounds like a bug.

Quote
I believe the #stolenothing script does not function because it is jumped over if the faction AI does not specific conditions activated before it even checks if the faction is human or AI controlled.

Ok, thank you.
I will then have the children's creche nominated as a bugfix with the expection of the -1 Morale feature. I also want to nominate as a bugfix the factenergy script. The two features I want nominated include the fixing of the AdvEnergy and AdvEnergy1 scripts, and a second option I will announce later.

Ok, accepted.  The creche bug will probably get a high vote modifier, since it's a fairly easy fix.  (It would be even easier if not for the need to distinguish between a unit "defending with its weapon" and one attacking from the base...but so things are.)

Would it be feasible to include the additional bonuses for the Citizens as described in the #CitizenHeck section of the help file? This might become my second nomination if it remains a viable option.

It would be fairly major, though doable at the cost of limiting bonuses to a maximum of 127 and minimum of -128.  (I don't think that will be an issue.)  We'd have to figure out what each of those bonuses means, though.

The minimum of Disciplined is clearly intended by the designers...so whether you think it's a good idea or not, it's not a bug.
I believe it is reasonable to allow this option for individuals that want to play with both Probe Teams that start at the Green Morale Level and the associated features that come with this change. As a result, I believe it might become necessary for me to release a minor update that enables these features if you decide that you do not agree with Probe Teams starting at a Green morale level.

The problem is that we first need to accommodate those who want to play starting with Disciplined...so in order to make it ok for both, we need to make it user-moddable, and that means it needs to be done as a feature rather than a bugfix.  I'm all for the change, but I don't think we can do it in a way that affects everybody.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 21, 2015, 04:12:45 PM

Would it be feasible to include the additional bonuses for the Citizens as described in the #CitizenHeck section of the help file? This might become my second nomination if it remains a viable option.

It would be fairly major, though doable at the cost of limiting bonuses to a maximum of 127 and minimum of -128.  (I don't think that will be an issue.)  We'd have to figure out what each of those bonuses means, though.
I think it best that we stick with tackling the probe team issues at the moment because that way the workload remains manageable, and we can tackle issues that already exist within the game before adding anymore features that might create additional issues. I am able to help with the probe teams because I have become fairly familiar with that section of the code. I think I will stick with the nominations for the probe teams except for the fact that so many of them have a classification as "features." I had an idea this morning. This idea went something along the lines of the fact that the game already checks a maximum and a minimum morale level for probe teams. Would it become possible to add a variable in alphax that corresponds to the location in this procedure that checks the the probe team morale level before it returns from the procedure?  This would allow an individual to set the maximum and minimum morale levels that the game uses while determining probe team morale.
Most of the citizens bonuses appear fairly clear except for one.
The efficiency bonus could operate in a similar manner to a children's creches.
The morale bonus could operate in a similar manner to either the children's crèche or command center depending upon what people want.
The Psi Defense bonus could increase the basic base bonus during psi combat.
The commerce bonus appears fairly clear because I have a fairly good Idea where the game calculates the commerce income at each base. I imagine it might operate as a commerce tech for the purpose of that base.
The aliens bonus could operate in a similar manner to biology labs.
The production bonus remains the only questionable bonus because it could mean many different features depending upon the context.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 21, 2015, 09:22:26 PM

Would it be feasible to include the additional bonuses for the Citizens as described in the #CitizenHeck section of the help file? This might become my second nomination if it remains a viable option.

It would be fairly major, though doable at the cost of limiting bonuses to a maximum of 127 and minimum of -128.  (I don't think that will be an issue.)  We'd have to figure out what each of those bonuses means, though.
I think it best that we stick with tackling the probe team issues at the moment because that way the workload remains manageable, and we can tackle issues that already exist within the game before adding anymore features that might create additional issues. I am able to help with the probe teams because I have become fairly familiar with that section of the code. I think I will stick with the nominations for the probe teams except for the fact that so many of them have a classification as "features."

Maybe you're misunderstanding; when I call something a feature, I don't mean that it's something difficult to add, I just mean that it's going to be up to .txt modding (which does add some difficulty to adding it) because it's not actually a bug and therefore needs to preserve the ability to do it the old way.

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I had an idea this morning. This idea went something along the lines of the fact that the game already checks a maximum and a minimum morale level for probe teams. Would it become possible to add a variable in alphax that corresponds to the location in this procedure that checks the the probe team morale level before it returns from the procedure?  This would allow an individual to set the maximum and minimum morale levels that the game uses while determining probe team morale.

Does it also set the probe team morale starting at Disciplined, though?  You've looked at that part of the code more recently than I have, so you'd know, and if it does then just changing the minimum wouldn't change that.

However, that sort of thing is the idea; anything that involves a new variable in alphax gets nominated as a feature, though.

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Most of the citizens bonuses appear fairly clear except for one.
The efficiency bonus could operate in a similar manner to a children's creches.
The morale bonus could operate in a similar manner to either the children's crèche or command center depending upon what people want.
The Psi Defense bonus could increase the basic base bonus during psi combat.
The commerce bonus appears fairly clear because I have a fairly good Idea where the game calculates the commerce income at each base. I imagine it might operate as a commerce tech for the purpose of that base.
The aliens bonus could operate in a similar manner to biology labs.
The production bonus remains the only questionable bonus because it could mean many different features depending upon the context.

And there were a few questions there (e.g. morale bonus as creche or command center)...but yes, they could be resolved.  The production bonus would probably be a bonus to minerals just like normal specialists add to energy-related things.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 21, 2015, 11:18:33 PM
The unit display for Probe team Morale has its own small section in the procedure. The first step checks if the unit role is below colonization and jumps if it is below this value. After that it checks if the unit has a "InfoWar" Plan and jumps if it does not. It then enters the morale section for probe teams that controls modifiers from all sources that effect the entire faction (PROBE, Telepathic Matrix, and Technology that provide a morale bonus [In that order]). After this, it checks if the base probe team morale is less than disciplined and jumps to a section that makes it disciplined. If it does not jump, than the game checks if the morale value exceeds Elite and sets it to elite if it does. The last step in the display section jumps into another section if the Probe team morale is equal to or less than green.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 22, 2015, 12:48:55 AM
It presently appears as though the calculations for Probe Team Morale start at green. This appears because the various bonuses for Probe Teams all have (Bonus-1) included.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 22, 2015, 01:07:56 AM
Was this particular feature intended by you? I do not think it was because it appears in scient's patch from 2010. The bugs from this unusual occurence include:
1. The morale bonus from the PROBE bonus operates in your current version of the patch as (PROBE Bonus[1-3]-1).
2. The bonus from Covert Ops Centers  operate in the same manner for the first +1 Bonus.
3. The bonuses from the Technology do not appear until you have at least a +1 bonus from another source or more than two techs with this bonus discovered.
4. The game has five techs that grant a morale bonus to Probe Teams and these bonuses would boost a disciplined probe team past elite.
5. These bonuses operate as expected while the base probe team morale is set at green. I have tested them.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 22, 2015, 02:48:35 PM
It presently appears as though the calculations for Probe Team Morale start at green.

Ah, ok.  Then just changing the minimum should be enough.

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This appears because the various bonuses for Probe Teams all have (Bonus-1) included.

What do you mean here?

Was this particular feature intended by you? I do not think it was because it appears in scient's patch from 2010. The bugs from this unusual occurence include:
1. The morale bonus from the PROBE bonus operates in your current version of the patch as (PROBE Bonus[1-3]-1).

I'm not sure what you mean here.

And no, I didn't change anything in probe morale yet.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 22, 2015, 06:33:02 PM
I found the location that cause this particular bug. In the latest version of your patch the address of this bug occurs at 004C1DA8. The game only calls this if particular morale check if the unit weapon is a probe team module. This location then proceeds to push 0 and 0 onto the stack as arg 1 and 2 in this particular check. The regular morale check for probe teams is push 0 and 1 onto the stack. This means that the game checks the morale at this point as though the unit had a green morale level. In order to fix this bug you need to change the push command at address 004C1DA8 to push 1.
   On another note, I hope this change does not cause this issue to disappear because I know the designers late in the development process must have changed this feature. I also noticed that -2 Morale does not halve the probe team morale bonus from Covert Ops Center because the bonus occurs outside the procedure that controls this feature.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: mnk on September 23, 2015, 09:17:57 AM
As usual, I forgot about this site for a few months.

So, I'd like to point back to what I've asked for back here (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=13593.msg73242#msg73242) - basically a request for an enhancement or two wrt. save handling.

Even just remembering last save directory would be a significant improvement, but I hope it would be possible to get closer to the ingame directory creation.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 24, 2015, 12:55:36 PM
I found the location that cause this particular bug. In the latest version of your patch the address of this bug occurs at 004C1DA8. The game only calls this if particular morale check if the unit weapon is a probe team module. This location then proceeds to push 0 and 0 onto the stack as arg 1 and 2 in this particular check. The regular morale check for probe teams is push 0 and 1 onto the stack. This means that the game checks the morale at this point as though the unit had a green morale level. In order to fix this bug you need to change the push command at address 004C1DA8 to push 1.

You must have mistyped something; 4C1DA8 is the middle of an instruction.  And which bug is this causing?

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On another note, I hope this change does not cause this issue to disappear

When I get to changing it, I'll make sure (as best I can) that it doesn't cause any unwanted changes in the process.

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I also noticed that -2 Morale does not halve the probe team morale bonus from Covert Ops Center because the bonus occurs outside the procedure that controls this feature.

Yeah, MORALE is not supposed to affect probe teams.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 24, 2015, 03:05:35 PM
I found the location that cause this particular bug. In the latest version of your patch the address of this bug occurs at 004C1DA8. The game only calls this if particular morale check if the unit weapon is a probe team module. This location then proceeds to push 0 and 0 onto the stack as arg 1 and 2 in this particular check. The regular morale check for probe teams is push 0 and 1 onto the stack. This means that the game checks the morale at this point as though the unit had a green morale level. In order to fix this bug you need to change the push command at address 004C1DA8 to push 1.

You must have mistyped something; 4C1DAB is the middle of an instruction.  And which bug is this causing?

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On another note, I hope this change does not cause this issue to disappear

When I get to changing it, I'll make sure (as best I can) that it doesn't cause any unwanted changes in the process.

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I also noticed that -2 Morale does not halve the probe team morale bonus from Covert Ops Center because the bonus occurs outside the procedure that controls this feature.

Yeah, MORALE is not supposed to affect probe teams.
The proper address is 004C1DAB and the correction described above fixes the miscalculation that occurs when the game determines bonuses to Probe Team Morale. This bug appears, for example, when you run Fundamentalist with a faction. The faction should receive a +2 bonus to Probe Team Morale and this bonus would cause a disciplined probe team to reach veteran without any other bonuses. The bug, however, causes the probe team to have a displayed morale of Hardened instead of Veteran.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 24, 2015, 07:39:17 PM
I found the location that cause this particular bug. In the latest version of your patch the address of this bug occurs at 004C1DA8. The game only calls this if particular morale check if the unit weapon is a probe team module. This location then proceeds to push 0 and 0 onto the stack as arg 1 and 2 in this particular check. The regular morale check for probe teams is push 0 and 1 onto the stack. This means that the game checks the morale at this point as though the unit had a green morale level. In order to fix this bug you need to change the push command at address 004C1DA8 to push 1.

You must have mistyped something; 4C1DAB is the middle of an instruction.  And which bug is this causing?

Quote
On another note, I hope this change does not cause this issue to disappear

When I get to changing it, I'll make sure (as best I can) that it doesn't cause any unwanted changes in the process.

Quote
I also noticed that -2 Morale does not halve the probe team morale bonus from Covert Ops Center because the bonus occurs outside the procedure that controls this feature.

Yeah, MORALE is not supposed to affect probe teams.
The proper address is 004C1DAB and the correction described above fixes the miscalculation that occurs when the game determines bonuses to Probe Team Morale. This bug appears, for example, when you run Fundamentalist with a faction. The faction should receive a +2 bonus to Probe Team Morale and this bonus would cause a disciplined probe team to reach veteran without any other bonuses. The bug, however, causes the probe team to have a displayed morale of Hardened instead of Veteran.

You sure?  It looks to me like that change would affect only the penalty applied when drone riots are present in a base...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 24, 2015, 08:10:58 PM
Hey Yitzi - would fixing the no-tabout junk introduced in the GOG version so users of it don't have to find and implement the workaround be out side the scope of this project?  I'm guessing that would be a popular feature, so good for the community, good for the patch project and good for you...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Green1 on September 24, 2015, 08:17:15 PM
So far, the workaround is renaming terranx to something like terranx-1.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 24, 2015, 08:29:55 PM
I'm still surprised that trick doesn't introduce a million other problems...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 24, 2015, 08:39:39 PM
Hey Yitzi - would fixing the no-tabout junk introduced in the GOG version so users of it don't have to find and implement the workaround be out side the scope of this project?  I'm guessing that would be a popular feature, so good for the community, good for the patch project and good for you...

Way outside.  It might be viable for PRACX, though.

I'm still surprised that trick doesn't introduce a million other problems...

There's really no reason it would; SMACX is set up so that it looks up other files but not vice versa, so the only thing that cares what terranx.exe is called is the change from the game installation that says "don't allow alt-tab while running terranx.exe".
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Green1 on September 24, 2015, 09:05:15 PM
Just for my clarification.

The .txt in the package in downloads IS NOT the .txt used for the patch. The current .txt is in a previous package?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 25, 2015, 01:48:18 AM
Just for my clarification.

The .txt in the package in downloads IS NOT the .txt used for the patch. The current .txt is in a previous package?

Any patch version will either include all necessary .txts (if it doesn't have a letter after it), or should be used with the .txts of the equivalent major patch (i.e. the one with the same numbers and no letter).
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 25, 2015, 04:43:42 PM

Would it be feasible to include the additional bonuses for the Citizens as described in the #CitizenHeck section of the help file? This might become my second nomination if it remains a viable option.

It would be fairly major, though doable at the cost of limiting bonuses to a maximum of 127 and minimum of -128.  (I don't think that will be an issue.)  We'd have to figure out what each of those bonuses means, though.
I think it best that we stick with tackling the probe team issues at the moment because that way the workload remains manageable, and we can tackle issues that already exist within the game before adding anymore features that might create additional issues. I am able to help with the probe teams because I have become fairly familiar with that section of the code. I think I will stick with the nominations for the probe teams except for the fact that so many of them have a classification as "features." I had an idea this morning. This idea went something along the lines of the fact that the game already checks a maximum and a minimum morale level for probe teams. Would it become possible to add a variable in alphax that corresponds to the location in this procedure that checks the the probe team morale level before it returns from the procedure?  This would allow an individual to set the maximum and minimum morale levels that the game uses while determining probe team morale.
Most of the citizens bonuses appear fairly clear except for one.
The efficiency bonus could operate in a similar manner to a children's creches.
The morale bonus could operate in a similar manner to either the children's crèche or command center depending upon what people want.
The Psi Defense bonus could increase the basic base bonus during psi combat.
The commerce bonus appears fairly clear because I have a fairly good Idea where the game calculates the commerce income at each base. I imagine it might operate as a commerce tech for the purpose of that base.
The aliens bonus could operate in a similar manner to biology labs.
The production bonus remains the only questionable bonus because it could mean many different features depending upon the context.
The commerce calculations for a base occur at address 004EB66E.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 25, 2015, 04:54:56 PM

Would it be feasible to include the additional bonuses for the Citizens as described in the #CitizenHeck section of the help file? This might become my second nomination if it remains a viable option.

It would be fairly major, though doable at the cost of limiting bonuses to a maximum of 127 and minimum of -128.  (I don't think that will be an issue.)  We'd have to figure out what each of those bonuses means, though.
I think it best that we stick with tackling the probe team issues at the moment because that way the workload remains manageable, and we can tackle issues that already exist within the game before adding anymore features that might create additional issues. I am able to help with the probe teams because I have become fairly familiar with that section of the code. I think I will stick with the nominations for the probe teams except for the fact that so many of them have a classification as "features." I had an idea this morning. This idea went something along the lines of the fact that the game already checks a maximum and a minimum morale level for probe teams. Would it become possible to add a variable in alphax that corresponds to the location in this procedure that checks the the probe team morale level before it returns from the procedure?  This would allow an individual to set the maximum and minimum morale levels that the game uses while determining probe team morale.
Most of the citizens bonuses appear fairly clear except for one.
The efficiency bonus could operate in a similar manner to a children's creches.
The morale bonus could operate in a similar manner to either the children's crèche or command center depending upon what people want.
The Psi Defense bonus could increase the basic base bonus during psi combat.
The commerce bonus appears fairly clear because I have a fairly good Idea where the game calculates the commerce income at each base. I imagine it might operate as a commerce tech for the purpose of that base.
The aliens bonus could operate in a similar manner to biology labs.
The production bonus remains the only questionable bonus because it could mean many different features depending upon the context.
The commerce calculations for a base occur at address 004EB66E.

Ok, thanks.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 25, 2015, 05:02:10 PM
What particular formula(e) would you want deciphered? I noticed you had figured out the formulae for technology research, eco-damage, and base drones.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 25, 2015, 07:08:34 PM
What particular formula(e) would you want deciphered? I noticed you had figured out the formulae for technology research, eco-damage, and base drones.

Hmm...the next big one is worm pops (i.e. when does a fungal pop come with worms, and if so how many and of what types)...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 25, 2015, 09:34:31 PM
A brief glance at the procedure I suspect contains the code reveals the following highlights:
1. The very first section of this particular procedure involves modifiers to ecological damage at a base (specifically the PLANET Bonus/Penalty, perihelion, and the percent chance of a fungal bloom at the base based upon eco-damage within the range of 1%-99%). The game then checks to see if the no native life scenario rule is active and jumps if this rule is active. The next section involves various different checks with the map square for bases, the current base position, the presence of fungus, and the presence of units in the square before the fungal pop occurs. This particular section involves the required pre-requisites to the event of Interlude#3 at address 004F6EA5 in scient's 2010 Patch. I also think the game jumps over this interlude if two or more fungal pops have already occured elsewhere. This particular section is followed by the script controls for FungusGrows and FungusGrows2. The last section in this part checks if more than two fungal blooms have occured and than jumps over interlude #5 at address 004F7040 if the previous condition is not met.
2. The next section checks (I think) the number of fungal blooms (jumps if less than seven), the presence, or absence, of the Voice of Planet, and the presence of another condition, and, if these conditions are met, than the game proceeds to allow Interlude #8 to occur.
3. Following this point, the game begins checking to see if the fungal pops cause a fungal tower to appear (the address for adding the fungal tower appears at 004F7143 in Scient's 2010 Patch.) The next area begins a base count and checks the presence of fungus around a base. If fungus is within a certain distance, a specific minimum number of fungal blooms have occured, and the base owner is correct, than mindworms and sporelaunchers will appear. I think the actual location to determine the number of mindworms and sporelaunchers at a base starts at address 004F7396 in Scient's 2010 patch. Another address that determines the number of mindworms and sporelaunchers that appear starts at address 004F74C2 in Scient's 2010 patch. It appears as though the number of fungal blooms and the number of bases controlled by the faction have an influence on the number of mindworms and sporelaunchers that appear. The following section(s) involves the global warming events as caused by ecological damage and fungal blooms.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 25, 2015, 10:30:17 PM
Another section of code that involves Mindworms and the script XMindworms starts at the address 005225C6 in Scient's 2010 patch. The game first checks if the No Native Life rule is active and the procedure jumps if it is active. The game then subtracts the World Native Life Selection from 3 and loads the remaining value into X+X*4. It then subtracts the Difficulty Level from this value after performing a shl 32 bitregister, 1 operation. It then compares the value from the Eax to Ecx and jumps if the value is equal to or greater than the value in ECX. The next section checks for The Voice of Planet Secret Project and it performs a check against the unit count memory address. After this section, the procedure performs a subtraction with the World Native Life Selection Value – 5, and integer divides ESI after performing the shl ESI, 1 operation. It then checks EDX and jumps if it is not zero. The following section appears to determine the location and number of Sealurks and Isle of the Deep that would appear if you encountered them from unity pods or randomly in the ocean. The next section, before adding sealurks and Isles of the Deep at the addresses 00522789 (Sealurk) and 005227C7 (Isle of the Deep,) checks for the perihelion. The procedure then subtracts 8 – World Life Value, then performs some more operations (Eax= 0, 1, or 2. I am uncertain about this point), and then it subtracts (8 – Difficulty Level). The last portion loads an address with (Eax+World Life Value+1) before it begins to check various aspects involving Sealurks and Isles of the Deep. The following section I think performs operations to determine the number of Mindworms, Sporelaunchers, and Locusts of Chiron that might have stored themselves on an Isle of the Deep. The next section I think checks to see the amount of land-based native life, along with Locusts of Chiron, that appear normally during the game. The following section I think checks the amount of land-based native life that will appear while the perihelion remains active within the game. The last section of this check, before you reach the script, appears,furthermore, to involve the base population size that it occurs near, the map shape, the size of the map, and the various other factors that influence this calculation (including World Native Life Value).
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 25, 2015, 11:22:20 PM
A brief glance at the procedure I suspect contains the code reveals the following highlights:
1. The very first section of this particular procedure involves modifiers to ecological damage at a base (specifically the PLANET Bonus/Penalty, perihelion, and the percent chance of a fungal bloom at the base based upon eco-damage within the range of 1%-99%). The game then checks to see if the no native life scenario rule is active and jumps if this rule is active. The next section involves various different checks with the map square for bases, the current base position, the presence of fungus, and the presence of units in the square before the fungal pop occurs. This particular section involves the required pre-requisites to the event of Interlude#3 at address 004F6EA5 in scient's 2010 Patch. I also think the game jumps over this interlude if two or more fungal pops have already occured elsewhere. This particular section is followed by the script controls for FungusGrows and FungusGrows2. The last section in this part checks if more than two fungal blooms have occured and than jumps over interlude #5 at address 004F7040 if the previous condition is not met.
2. The next section checks (I think) the number of fungal blooms (jumps if less than seven), the presence, or absence, of the Voice of Planet, and the presence of another condition, and, if these conditions are met, than the game proceeds to allow Interlude #8 to occur.
3. Following this point, the game begins checking to see if the fungal pops cause a fungal tower to appear (the address for adding the fungal tower appears at 004F7143 in Scient's 2010 Patch.) The next area begins a base count and checks the presence of fungus around a base. If fungus is within a certain distance, a specific minimum number of fungal blooms have occured, and the base owner is correct, than mindworms and sporelaunchers will appear. I think the actual location to determine the number of mindworms and sporelaunchers at a base starts at address 004F7396 in Scient's 2010 patch. Another address that determines the number of mindworms and sporelaunchers that appear starts at address 004F74C2 in Scient's 2010 patch. It appears as though the number of fungal blooms and the number of bases controlled by the faction have an influence on the number of mindworms and sporelaunchers that appear. The following section(s) involves the global warming events as caused by ecological damage and fungal blooms.

Ok, thanks.  I don't suppose you can read off the exact formula?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 25, 2015, 11:35:26 PM
What section of this code would like the exact formula on? I am not certain I can decipher the formula from all of it, but I can figure out signficant portions of this procedure.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 27, 2015, 03:16:23 AM
What section of this code would like the exact formula on? I am not certain I can decipher the formula from all of it, but I can figure out signficant portions of this procedure.

If you can't decipher the entire formula, then I'll do it when I get to that project.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Mart on September 27, 2015, 03:31:50 AM
Bringing this here, faction graphics bug, as it appears, we may be able to fix it! :
The thread is here:
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=3808.0 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=3808.0)
... Is this bug somehow fixed at the moment?

When working with scenario editor and launching a game from scenario, I noticed something in singleplayer. The save file appears to have recorded the faction file name. This can be checked by enabling scenario editor and by trying to relaod a faction. The name is as it should be, and not the one that is in Alpha Centauri.ini
However, when playing multiplayer, the bug occurs.

If the save file has the appropriate string, it might be possible to change the place, where the game gets the file name, and load proper string instead from the ini file one.

What multiplayer encryption has to do with it? Is it possible, that encryption prevents the game from getting the proper string? And then, it takes it from ini file?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 27, 2015, 12:54:59 PM
Bringing this here, faction graphics bug, as it appears, we may be able to fix it! :
The thread is here:
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=3808.0 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=3808.0)
... Is this bug somehow fixed at the moment?

When working with scenario editor and launching a game from scenario, I noticed something in singleplayer. The save file appears to have recorded the faction file name. This can be checked by enabling scenario editor and by trying to relaod a faction. The name is as it should be, and not the one that is in Alpha Centauri.ini
However, when playing multiplayer, the bug occurs.

If the save file has the appropriate string, it might be possible to change the place, where the game gets the file name, and load proper string instead from the ini file one.

What multiplayer encryption has to do with it? Is it possible, that encryption prevents the game from getting the proper string? And then, it takes it from ini file?



Thank you; that should be helpful.

Encryption should not be an issue, since everything needs to be decrypted to load the game anyway.  Also, the problem seems to be related to it being a scenario, not to it being multiplayer.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Mart on September 27, 2015, 06:23:34 PM
...  Also, the problem seems to be related to it being a scenario, not to it being multiplayer.

Yet, the graphics bug is in multiplayer. Do you think, this is the same problem? Scenario and multiplayer? So there is only one thing to be fixed, and there will be no "graphics bug" in any mode of play?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 27, 2015, 06:31:28 PM
I concluded the same as Yitzi a long time ago.  It's a scenario problem that shows up by far the most in MP, because that's where people are playing a lot of different scenarios in turn.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 27, 2015, 07:08:07 PM
...  Also, the problem seems to be related to it being a scenario, not to it being multiplayer.

Yet, the graphics bug is in multiplayer.

I don't think that's true.  It shows up in multiplayer because that's generally done via scenarios and single-player usually isn't, but a single-player GotM will have the bug as well, and a multiplayer done not as a scenario won't AFAIK.

I concluded the same as Yitzi a long time ago.  It's a scenario problem that shows up by far the most in MP, because that's where people are playing a lot of different scenarios in turn.

Correction: You concluded it, and I learned it from you IIRC.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 27, 2015, 07:15:41 PM
Okay.  Stands to reason, though.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on September 29, 2015, 02:33:47 AM
What section of this code would like the exact formula on? I am not certain I can decipher the formula from all of it, but I can figure out signficant portions of this procedure.

If you can't decipher the entire formula, then I'll do it when I get to that project.
The above comment shows that we have different approaches. I can point out specific sections if that helps. The section that begins after the game checks for fungus, bases, and units starts at 004F7362. The first few actions put local 10 into Edi, 3 into ECX, and EDI into EAX. It then moves local 2 into ebx, converts a value from doubleword to quadword, divides the value in EAX by 3 and places the remainder into ESI. It then proceeds to negate the value in ESI, subtract and borrow the value from the ESI register, and the game lastly adds ten to the ESI register before it jumps to the address 004F7396. It then jumps if the value in ESI is equal to eight (I think it checks if the units created are mind worms). Otherwise, it begins a series of calculations that first involve the number of bases owned by the faction. It jumps if the value in Edx is equal to or greater than the value in EDI. If it does not jump, than the game begins another equation that involves the number of fungal blooms that the faction has experienced. The above addresses correspond to locations in the game code from Scient's 2010 Patch.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on September 30, 2015, 03:25:45 AM
What section of this code would like the exact formula on? I am not certain I can decipher the formula from all of it, but I can figure out signficant portions of this procedure.

If you can't decipher the entire formula, then I'll do it when I get to that project.
The above comment shows that we have different approaches. I can point out specific sections if that helps. The section that begins after the game checks for fungus, bases, and units starts at 004F7362. The first few actions put local 10 into Edi, 3 into ECX, and EDI into EAX. It then moves local 2 into ebx, converts a value from doubleword to quadword, divides the value in EAX by 3 and places the remainder into ESI. It then proceeds to negate the value in ESI, subtract and borrow the value from the ESI register, and the game lastly adds ten to the ESI register before it jumps to the address 004F7396. It then jumps if the value in ESI is equal to eight (I think it checks if the units created are mind worms). Otherwise, it begins a series of calculations that first involve the number of bases owned by the faction. It jumps if the value in Edx is equal to or greater than the value in EDI. If it does not jump, than the game begins another equation that involves the number of fungal blooms that the faction has experienced. The above addresses correspond to locations in the game code from Scient's 2010 Patch.

Ok, thanks.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: AndroAsc on November 01, 2015, 10:47:51 PM
After a long hiatus to this game, if possible, I would like to request a bugfix/feature which is to increase the 2048 unit limit. I've looked at the readme from the latest file, even scient 2.0 patch or yitzi 3.4, and it seems that this is not fixed (please correct me if I am wrong). I would give this request a 100 on a scale from 0 to 100, nothing else matters!
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on November 02, 2015, 03:32:22 PM
After a long hiatus to this game, if possible, I would like to request a bugfix/feature which is to increase the 2048 unit limit. I've looked at the readme from the latest file, even scient 2.0 patch or yitzi 3.4, and it seems that this is not fixed (please correct me if I am wrong). I would give this request a 100 on a scale from 0 to 100, nothing else matters!

That would be a somewhat tricky one (though it would in the process allow a lot of other stuff); when I get to making the voting thread (stuff has taken longer than expected, due largely to various distractions), I'll make sure to put it up there.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: kyrub on November 03, 2015, 09:47:31 AM
I really like the wish (nomination) about limitting the infiltration. This would help the game immensely. I understand it is a tricky one because of the extra data. Maybe some small changed version could be passable, like:

- the inflitration ceases after a change in governement policies of the infiltrated player (logically, as it means changing political personnel, and it needs new infiltration). That could be relatively easy to code. The player is reminded of the politic changes already, which is good.
- or the inflitration expires on the 2nd or 3rd council.
- or the infiltration to the bases and units is territorially limitted, for instance for the continent. This seems hard to do.

Smaller issues I tend to alter in my games via exe editting (and I'd like not to have to do so)
- the speed of fungus and forest expansion
- the option to move the blocking of close Drop pods from Aerospace complexes to Tachyon field. If so, it becomes visible on the map for the player and it is better implemented by the AIs. Moreover, the Aerocomplexes are a bit too good for everything.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on November 04, 2015, 03:17:00 PM
I really like the wish (nomination) about limitting the infiltration. This would help the game immensely. I understand it is a tricky one because of the extra data. Maybe some small changed version could be passable, like:

- the inflitration ceases after a change in governement policies of the infiltrated player (logically, as it means changing political personnel, and it needs new infiltration). That could be relatively easy to code. The player is reminded of the politic changes already, which is good.

That's an idea...but it would make PROBE irrelevant to infiltration duration, getting rid of one of the strongest advantages.

Quote
- or the inflitration expires on the 2nd or 3rd council.
- or the infiltration to the bases and units is territorially limitted, for instance for the continent. This seems hard to do.

Yeah, both of those would require more information.

Quote
Smaller issues I tend to alter in my games via exe editting (and I'd like not to have to do so)
- the speed of fungus and forest expansion

Could definitely be made moddable.

Quote
- the option to move the blocking of close Drop pods from Aerospace complexes to Tachyon field. If so, it becomes visible on the map for the player and it is better implemented by the AIs. Moreover, the Aerocomplexes are a bit too good for everything.

Could definitely be made moddable.

That's a lot of ideas, though, and you're limited to 2 nominations...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: kyrub on November 08, 2015, 11:11:06 PM
After further thought I decided to take back those first quick suggestions.
I have to think about my priorities. Maybe some important issues are preferable.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: kyrub on November 19, 2015, 02:06:38 AM
(my 1st nomination)
I'd like you to look at the Exchange base code. I once tried to correct the bug experienced by many players - the bases are too "cheap" and unequal when exchanged, with no real success. Looking at it again, I see a suspect code.

At adress 14CE49 the program counts the facilities price and adds them to the base price. But, while it cycles through them it seems to make a crucial mistake: for every Nth facility, it adds N*facility cost. This means, that if you have 8 facilities at a base, the 8th one (which is probably the most expensive of them all) will be counted 8 times. Since human players tend to build more facilities than AI, we may have our bug that makes AI bases "cheaper".

Could you please look at it and verify if it is correct or a bug? And, if so, repair the code? Thanks.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on November 19, 2015, 02:26:51 PM
(my 1st nomination)
I'd like you to look at the Exchange base code. I once tried to correct the bug experienced by many players - the bases are too "cheap" and unequal when exchanged, with no real success. Looking at it again, I see a suspect code.

At adress 14CE49 the program counts the facilities price and adds them to the base price. But, while it cycles through them it seems to make a crucial mistake: for every Nth facility, it adds N*facility cost. This means, that if you have 8 facilities at a base, the 8th one (which is probably the most expensive of them all) will be counted 8 times. Since human players tend to build more facilities than AI, we may have our bug that makes AI bases "cheaper".

Could you please look at it and verify if it is correct or a bug? And, if so, repair the code? Thanks.

Nomination accepted; I assume if it is a bug, the repair would be to count each facility only once?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: kyrub on November 20, 2015, 08:59:45 AM
Yep, I would say so.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on November 29, 2015, 09:42:12 PM
Yep, I would say so.
I believe this means that you possess some level of knowledge about the values that influence the AI diplomatic response. What information and regions of this particular area do you possess information about?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: vonbach on December 27, 2015, 09:31:56 PM
Heres a question would it be possible to make SAMs? Conventional missiles that would attack air units?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on December 27, 2015, 10:28:07 PM
Heres a question would it be possible to make SAMs? Conventional missiles that would attack air units?

Not only is it possible, it can be done without .exe modding.

In the #UNITS area of alphax.txt, add 1 to the number at the top (because you're adding another unit), and then add (at the bottom) the line:

Anti-Air Missile,       Missile,  Conventional, Scout,     -1, 0, 0, Orbital, -1, 00000000000000000000100000

(You can change "Anti-Air Missile" to whatever you want it to be called.)  That will create a predesigned missile unit with the Air Superiority ability.  (You can also change its cost or prerequisite if you want).
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: MercantileInterest on December 27, 2015, 11:54:10 PM
Nominating these two features:

Option to allow a faction +1 Nutrients from forest.

+1 Probe. Same as it is now.
+2 Probe. Same as it is now.
+3 Probe. Units and bases immune to subversion. Bases immune to infiltration.
+4 Probe. Equivalent to Hunter-Seeker Algorithm.

The other infiltration modifier ideas sound like rather a lot of work. Besides, I've never valued probe, which might be because I normally run the University or might just be because it's not that useful.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on December 28, 2015, 01:00:15 AM
Nominating these two features:

Option to allow a faction +1 Nutrients from forest.

+1 Probe. Same as it is now.
+2 Probe. Same as it is now.
+3 Probe. Units and bases immune to subversion. Bases immune to infiltration.
+4 Probe. Equivalent to Hunter-Seeker Algorithm.

The other infiltration modifier ideas sound like rather a lot of work. Besides, I've never valued probe, which might be because I normally run the University or might just be because it's not that useful.

Actually, "infiltration ceases on next government change" would be fairly easy; the others would be somewhat harder, though.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on December 28, 2015, 01:11:51 AM
I'd nominate infiltration duration scaling with PROBE.  It's a fairly weak SE even if you mod out all the free probe morale bossts.
Two variables
1) X, infiltration turn duration at PROBE 0 (PROBE of the target faction, -1 = unlimited, so -1 by default)
2) Y, infiltration turn duration per -/+ PROBE (from -2 to +3)
If duration = 0 then infiltrate would be for current turn only.  If duration is negative then immune to infiltration at that PROBE SE.

Example X = 10, Y = 5
PROBE -2 = 20 turns
PROBE -1 = 15 turns
PROBE 0 = 10 turns
PROBE +1 = 5 turns
PROBE +2 = 0 turns (current turn only)
PROBE +3 = immune to infiltrate
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on December 28, 2015, 06:53:24 AM
Actually if we can nominate one thing only.  I'd nominate to fix a bug where building a Tree Farm/Hybrid Forest can actually increase a city's ecodamage.

I think this occurs in the case where there are many forests and the ecodamage from terraforming is negative.  It seems TF/HF half and zero out the negative (bonus).  I'm not sure whether ecodamage from terraforming should go into the negative or this is more an issue with the facilities
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: vonbach on December 28, 2015, 12:41:32 PM
Heres a question would it be possible to make SAMs? Conventional missiles that would attack air units?

Not only is it possible, it can be done without .exe modding.

In the #UNITS area of alphax.txt, add 1 to the number at the top (because you're adding another unit), and then add (at the bottom) the line:

Anti-Air Missile,       Missile,  Conventional, Scout,     -1, 0, 0, Orbital, -1, 00000000000000000000100000

(You can change "Anti-Air Missile" to whatever you want it to be called.)  That will create a predesigned missile unit with the Air Superiority ability.  (You can also change its cost or prerequisite if you want).
Alpha Centauri threw a hissy fit when I tried this. It didn't wreck my game at least. I'm not sure what went wrong.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on December 28, 2015, 02:25:09 PM
I'd nominate infiltration duration scaling with PROBE.  It's a fairly weak SE even if you mod out all the free probe morale bossts.
Two variables
1) X, infiltration turn duration at PROBE 0 (PROBE of the target faction, -1 = unlimited, so -1 by default)
2) Y, infiltration turn duration per -/+ PROBE (from -2 to +3)
If duration = 0 then infiltrate would be for current turn only.  If duration is negative then immune to infiltration at that PROBE SE.

Example X = 10, Y = 5
PROBE -2 = 20 turns
PROBE -1 = 15 turns
PROBE 0 = 10 turns
PROBE +1 = 5 turns
PROBE +2 = 0 turns (current turn only)
PROBE +3 = immune to infiltrate

That would require tracking how long it's been so far, which would make it fairly tricky.  Nomination accepted, but it will take a penalty on the voting.  However, I seem to remember some other people were interested in it too, so it might win anyway.

Actually if we can nominate one thing only.

You can nominate two features and two bugfixes.

Quote
I'd nominate to fix a bug where building a Tree Farm/Hybrid Forest can actually increase a city's ecodamage.

I think this occurs in the case where there are many forests and the ecodamage from terraforming is negative.  It seems TF/HF half and zero out the negative (bonus).  I'm not sure whether ecodamage from terraforming should go into the negative or this is more an issue with the facilities

I'm still not so certain that counts as a bug; if you start a poll and the consensus is overwhelmingly that it's a bug, then I can do that easily.  If it's more split, it can still be an optional feature if you want to nominate that.

Heres a question would it be possible to make SAMs? Conventional missiles that would attack air units?

Not only is it possible, it can be done without .exe modding.

In the #UNITS area of alphax.txt, add 1 to the number at the top (because you're adding another unit), and then add (at the bottom) the line:

Anti-Air Missile,       Missile,  Conventional, Scout,     -1, 0, 0, Orbital, -1, 00000000000000000000100000

(You can change "Anti-Air Missile" to whatever you want it to be called.)  That will create a predesigned missile unit with the Air Superiority ability.  (You can also change its cost or prerequisite if you want).
Alpha Centauri threw a hissy fit when I tried this. It didn't wreck my game at least. I'm not sure what went wrong.

Me either, as it worked for me.  Did it give an error message?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: vonbach on December 28, 2015, 06:11:02 PM
Quote
Me either, as it worked for me.  Did it give an error message?
Yes it did.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on December 28, 2015, 06:45:22 PM
Quote
Me either, as it worked for me.  Did it give an error message?
Yes it did.

What did the error message say?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: vonbach on December 28, 2015, 06:56:08 PM
Something about a bad chassis and some other things mixed in as well.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on December 28, 2015, 07:20:27 PM
Something about a bad chassis and some other things mixed in as well.

If you can do it again and get the exact message, that might help me figure out how to fix it.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: vonbach on December 28, 2015, 07:35:19 PM
It worked this time I made a new test game and gave myself the technology. Thanks
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on December 28, 2015, 09:12:00 PM
Actually if we can nominate one thing only.  I'd nominate to fix a bug where building a Tree Farm/Hybrid Forest can actually increase a city's ecodamage.

I think this occurs in the case where there are many forests and the ecodamage from terraforming is negative.  It seems TF/HF half and zero out the negative (bonus).  I'm not sure whether ecodamage from terraforming should go into the negative or this is more an issue with the facilities
I will attempt to isolate the potential location of this problem and report back with my results.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Dio on December 28, 2015, 09:55:39 PM
It appears that Tree Farms and Hybrid Forests only halve or eliminates the ecological damage at a base that originates from terrain enchancements (along with reductions). This means the base still suffers from the increases in ecology damage that originate from technological discoveries and mineral production.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: voker57 on January 02, 2016, 04:26:39 PM
Currently, option to disable automatic prototyping does not work at all in multiplayer (TCP/IP). It's really annoying as it constantly screws up custom designs me & my friends like, would be great if it could be fixed.

I think I posted it somewhere else as well but guess this is proper place

Another significant bug: Human players' commlink frequencies are not required to call council, as well as for inviting AIs to attack them.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on January 03, 2016, 12:51:10 AM
Currently, option to disable automatic prototyping does not work at all in multiplayer (TCP/IP). It's really annoying as it constantly screws up custom designs me & my friends like, would be great if it could be fixed.

I think I posted it somewhere else as well but guess this is proper place

Be aware that to fix this may require testing, meaning someone to set up a TCP/IP connection with.

Quote
Another significant bug: Human players' commlink frequencies are not required to call council, as well as for inviting AIs to attack them.

That can definitely be fixed (though it would be based on the ability to contact them, i.e. if the settings are that human players can contact each other from the start, that would remove the need to have their commlink frequencies for such purposes).
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: voker57 on January 03, 2016, 10:39:51 AM
Quote
Be aware that to fix this may require testing, meaning someone to set up a TCP/IP connection with.

Sure, PM me if you need help testing it.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: MercantileInterest on January 03, 2016, 11:45:27 PM
"Actually, "infiltration ceases on next government change" would be fairly easy; the others would be somewhat harder, though."

Right then. Sounds reasonable in single player but reduces its usefulness terribly in multiplayer.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: see on January 04, 2016, 10:10:57 AM
Nominated Feature #1:  An option in alphax.txt to determine which faction has the Caretaker's cannot-transcend limit, replacing the hard-coded name.

Nominated Feature #2:  Some sort of configuration section to allow users to configure facilities/special projects to grant specific "faction"-type bonuses, in order to allow modders to assign abilities to empty facilities and secret projects.  So, say, Empty Facility 42 to could be configured to give, say, "POPULATION, -1" as a sort of min-hab-complex, while Empty Secret Project 38 could be configured to give "FACILITY, 42".
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on January 04, 2016, 02:25:36 PM
Nominated Feature #1:  An option in alphax.txt to determine which faction has the Caretaker's cannot-transcend limit, replacing the hard-coded name.

Question: Would you rather have:

Approach 1: It is determined in alphax.txt which faction has the cannot-transcend rule, but it can still only be one faction per game.
Approach 2: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot transcend.  This can therefore be applied to more than one faction per game, but counts toward the limit of 8 "standard" boni/mali for the faction.
Approach 3: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot build project/facility/predesigned unit X, and/or cannot build project/facility/predesigned Y and declares vendetta against any faction that attempts to do so.  This would therefore take two bonus/malus slots for the Caretakers' "cannot transcend" (one for the Voice of Planet and one for the Ascent to Transcendence), but would be far more versatile for modding.

(Approaches 2 or 3 would probably be significantly easier than 1; 3 would only be slightly harder than 2).

Quote
Nominated Feature #2:  Some sort of configuration section to allow users to configure facilities/special projects to grant specific "faction"-type bonuses, in order to allow modders to assign abilities to empty facilities and secret projects.  So, say, Empty Facility 42 to could be configured to give, say, "POPULATION, -1" as a sort of min-hab-complex, while Empty Secret Project 38 could be configured to give "FACILITY, 42".

How many such bonuses should each facility be able to have?  (Also, be aware that FACILITY, 42 does not work exactly the same as something like the Command Nexus.)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: see on January 04, 2016, 11:50:06 PM
Approach 2: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot transcend.  This can therefore be applied to more than one faction per game, but counts toward the limit of 8 "standard" boni/mali for the faction.
Approach 3: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot build project/facility/predesigned unit X, and/or cannot build project/facility/predesigned Y and declares vendetta against any faction that attempts to do so.  This would therefore take two bonus/malus slots for the Caretakers' "cannot transcend" (one for the Voice of Planet and one for the Ascent to Transcendence), but would be far more versatile for modding.

(Approaches 2 or 3 would probably be significantly easier than 1; 3 would only be slightly harder than 2).

Wow, I actually expected them to be harder than #1, which is why I phrased the way I did.  #3, then, since you think it's only slightly harder than #2.

Quote
How many such bonuses should each facility be able to have?
I'd be quite satisfied with just one.

Quote
(Also, be aware that FACILITY, 42 does not work exactly the same as something like the Command Nexus.)
Different is, IMO, good (after all, we have a bunch of Command Nexus-type projects already), but I'm not wedded to the faction bonus types and syntax so much as wanting a way to do something interesting with all those empty slots.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on January 05, 2016, 02:35:05 PM
Approach 2: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot transcend.  This can therefore be applied to more than one faction per game, but counts toward the limit of 8 "standard" boni/mali for the faction.
Approach 3: It is determined in the faction file that it cannot build project/facility/predesigned unit X, and/or cannot build project/facility/predesigned Y and declares vendetta against any faction that attempts to do so.  This would therefore take two bonus/malus slots for the Caretakers' "cannot transcend" (one for the Voice of Planet and one for the Ascent to Transcendence), but would be far more versatile for modding.

(Approaches 2 or 3 would probably be significantly easier than 1; 3 would only be slightly harder than 2).

Wow, I actually expected them to be harder than #1, which is why I phrased the way I did.  #3, then, since you think it's only slightly harder than #2.

One of the major rules about .exe modding is that the hardest thing is adding room for new data.  So having a special entry for "faction that can't ascend" is harder than saying "these 8 slots that we have anyway can now have a new value".  The real downside of #3, as compared to #2, is that it requires 2 slots for the Caretaker effect rather than just 1.

Quote
Quote
How many such bonuses should each facility be able to have?
I'd be quite satisfied with just one.

Yeah, that probably wouldn't be too hard.

Quote
Quote
(Also, be aware that FACILITY, 42 does not work exactly the same as something like the Command Nexus.)
Different is, IMO, good (after all, we have a bunch of Command Nexus-type projects already), but I'm not wedded to the faction bonus types and syntax so much as wanting a way to do something interesting with all those empty slots.

Ok.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: MercantileInterest on January 06, 2016, 08:30:15 PM
Does your existing patch fix the multiplayer probe bug?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on January 10, 2016, 12:40:25 AM
Does your existing patch fix the multiplayer probe bug?

I know there was a probe bug fixed in Scient's patch, but nothing other than that as far as I remember.  Which is the MP probe bug?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: MercantileInterest on January 12, 2016, 07:57:23 PM
If a human controlled faction detects one of your probe teams in its city, you (the player who sent the probe) get to decide the other side's reaction.

New idea for infiltration: could sunspot activity have an effect? Temporary interruption for alliances, planetary governorship and the Empath Guild; cancellation for ordinary probe infiltration. You would still be able to install a new infiltrator while the sunspots were in effect.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: MercantileInterest on January 12, 2016, 08:05:29 PM
Clarification: this is a play by email issue.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: MercantileInterest on January 12, 2016, 08:49:59 PM
Actually, the sunspot rules mentioned above, combined with the option to remove enemy infiltration by sending a probe to his headquarters, sounds far more fun than any of the other options mentioned. Would that count as adding room for more data?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on January 13, 2016, 02:43:38 PM
If a human controlled faction detects one of your probe teams in its city, you (the player who sent the probe) get to decide the other side's reaction.

How should it work?  Normally, the reaction is supposed to happen immediately...so for PBEM, what is a better approach than PMing the target and asking him what to select for said reaction?

Quote
New idea for infiltration: could sunspot activity have an effect? Temporary interruption for alliances, planetary governorship and the Empath Guild; cancellation for ordinary probe infiltration. You would still be able to install a new infiltrator while the sunspots were in effect.

That could definitely be done.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on January 13, 2016, 02:44:54 PM
Actually, the sunspot rules mentioned above, combined with the option to remove enemy infiltration by sending a probe to his headquarters, sounds far more fun than any of the other options mentioned. Would that count as adding room for more data?

No, it shouldn't.  Or if it does, it would be so small as to not be particularly difficult.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Nexii on January 13, 2016, 08:17:11 PM
Actually, the sunspot rules mentioned above, combined with the option to remove enemy infiltration by sending a probe to his headquarters, sounds far more fun than any of the other options mentioned. Would that count as adding room for more data?

No, it shouldn't.  Or if it does, it would be so small as to not be particularly difficult.

I'd say there should be no reaction by default.  But for MP there should be a 'declare Vendetta' option on the commlinks.  I think I had mentioned a similar exploit earlier.  Since you are default Truce with everyone you can force expel units out of your territory every turn, thus preventing other human players from ever declaring Vendetta.  At least until sea or air units usually.

Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on January 14, 2016, 12:01:34 PM
Actually, the sunspot rules mentioned above, combined with the option to remove enemy infiltration by sending a probe to his headquarters, sounds far more fun than any of the other options mentioned. Would that count as adding room for more data?

No, it shouldn't.  Or if it does, it would be so small as to not be particularly difficult.

I'd say there should be no reaction by default.

And how would the game tell whether to use that default or have the diplomatic-consequence-free vendetta?

Quote
But for MP there should be a 'declare Vendetta' option on the commlinks.  I think I had mentioned a similar exploit earlier.  Since you are default Truce with everyone you can force expel units out of your territory every turn, thus preventing other human players from ever declaring Vendetta.  At least until sea or air units usually.

That seems like it might be a good idea, but not a major one (since it can easily be handled by game rules).
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: MercantileInterest on January 20, 2016, 12:40:06 AM
"How should it work?  Normally, the reaction is supposed to happen immediately...so for PBEM, what is a better approach than PMing the target and asking him what to select for said reaction?"

Basically, in PBEM, the AI runs a player's faction during other players' turns. This AI can't conduct normal diplomacy, but it does have some influence. Suppose all players are human and the Peacekeepers attack the Hive. The Morganites, who are allied to both players, might very well have their AI declare war on the Peacekeepers. It's not a huge problem but it can get your units expelled from friendly territory. During sunspot activity, it can be a true pain.

To answer your question, suppose the Peacekeepers send a probe into the Hive instead of attacking. The Hive detect the probe. Currently, the Peacekeepers will get a little message asking whether they'd prefer to downgrade relations or to let themselves off with a stern rebuke. Can we delay the message to appear at the start of the Hive's turn?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on January 20, 2016, 03:01:43 PM
"How should it work?  Normally, the reaction is supposed to happen immediately...so for PBEM, what is a better approach than PMing the target and asking him what to select for said reaction?"

Basically, in PBEM, the AI runs a player's faction during other players' turns. This AI can't conduct normal diplomacy, but it does have some influence. Suppose all players are human and the Peacekeepers attack the Hive. The Morganites, who are allied to both players, might very well have their AI declare war on the Peacekeepers. It's not a huge problem but it can get your units expelled from friendly territory. During sunspot activity, it can be a true pain.

To answer your question, suppose the Peacekeepers send a probe into the Hive instead of attacking. The Hive detect the probe. Currently, the Peacekeepers will get a little message asking whether they'd prefer to downgrade relations or to let themselves off with a stern rebuke. Can we delay the message to appear at the start of the Hive's turn?

That could be done...but then if the Hive decides to downgrade relations to vendetta, it happens at the beginning of the Hive's turn, meaning they get first strike capability...which is extremely different than the way "vendetta as a response to probe team actions" works for non-PBEM games.

Therefore, I'll include it as a nominated feature if you want, but it seems better to me to have the Peacekeepers PM the Hive saying "I just probed you, such-and-such happened, now are you going to declare Vendetta or just let it off with a stern rebuke?", and select based on that...as that way, the Vendetta will happen immediately after the probe action, just like in a non-PBEM game.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on January 21, 2016, 09:39:59 PM
I'm making enough progress that the voting thread is up here (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=17418.msg86016#msg86016); as such, nominations are closed unless MercantileInterest wants to replace one of his existing feature nominations with "probe-team-caused vendettas are declared on the victim's turn in PBEM".
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: MercantileInterest on January 22, 2016, 07:04:42 PM
No. Don't want to replace any nominations. Don't mind arguing pointlessly, though. To continue the example, if Peacekeepers are detected, they can still decide to take the first strike. It's not a big deal. My group uses multiplayer rules almost exactly like those you describe.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on January 25, 2016, 08:56:16 PM
No. Don't want to replace any nominations. Don't mind arguing pointlessly, though. To continue the example, if Peacekeepers are detected, they can still decide to take the first strike.

How?  If the decision isn't made until the beginning of the Hive's turn, then the next faction able to take the first strike once the decision is made is the Hive.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Mart on February 08, 2016, 04:28:24 PM
I'm not sure, if this was mentioned:

- ability to turn off so-called "mineral unity pod." The one, that gives minerals to the closest base up to completion.
Usually it is tedious to micromanage bases to get the largest amount of minerals one can. Not to mention abusing this feature to instabuild Secret Projects by inserting into building item some very expensive unit/crawler.
Some unity pod outcomes get possibility of turning them off in the scenario editor, but not this one.
Alternative would be to cap minerals at some quantity. 20? 30? or 40? Yet this would not eliminate micromanagement.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: vonbach on February 09, 2016, 12:42:22 PM
Would it be possible to get extra resources out of forests with high planet same as with fungus?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features and bugfixes for Yitzi's patch 3.6
Post by: Yitzi on February 09, 2016, 06:27:59 PM
I'm not sure, if this was mentioned:

- ability to turn off so-called "mineral unity pod." The one, that gives minerals to the closest base up to completion.
Usually it is tedious to micromanage bases to get the largest amount of minerals one can. Not to mention abusing this feature to instabuild Secret Projects by inserting into building item some very expensive unit/crawler.
Some unity pod outcomes get possibility of turning them off in the scenario editor, but not this one.
Alternative would be to cap minerals at some quantity. 20? 30? or 40? Yet this would not eliminate micromanagement.

Manipulating pod outcomes is definitely possible, but nominations for 3.6 are closed by now.
So would be capping minerals from the pod.
So would be having the pod give enough minerals to build whatever you were building at the start of your turn.

Would it be possible to get extra resources out of forests with high planet same as with fungus?

Absolutely, but nominations for 3.6 are closed by now.
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