Alpha Centauri 2

Community => Recreation Commons => Topic started by: Metaliturtle on June 17, 2015, 05:04:24 AM

Title: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on June 17, 2015, 05:04:24 AM

http://www.listenmoneymatters.com/introduction-simple-investing/ (http://www.listenmoneymatters.com/introduction-simple-investing/)

Hey all, believe it or not I am a banker, I don't want to invest for you but I want to talk about making money, saving money, earning more returns and being awesomely frugal.  I'm trained to aid in budget building, debt resolution, credit cleanup, and I'm happy to provide my expertise to this group free of charge.  I attached an article to get you thinking.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 17, 2015, 05:06:26 AM

Attached where?

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on June 17, 2015, 05:13:38 AM

put a link anyways :)

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 17, 2015, 02:05:09 PM

Quote from: metaliturtle on June 17, 2015, 05:04:24 AM

http://www.listenmoneymatters.com/introduction-simple-investing/ (http://www.listenmoneymatters.com/introduction-simple-investing/)

Hey all, believe it or not I am a banker, I don't want to invest for you but I want to talk about making money, saving money, earning more returns and being awesomely frugal.  I'm trained to aid in budget building, debt resolution, credit cleanup, and I'm happy to provide my expertise to this group free of charge.  I attached an article to get you thinking.

. . . . We're actually seeking an expert...

hEt's parents both died in the last 6 months (1 sudden, 1 cancer), having never had the chance to spend their retirement, so we got a bit of cash we gotta figure out the smartest thing to do with.   Once the house sells a bit more. 

We have the house payment, and one car payment, but otherwise destroyed all our debt prior to me being out of work for 2014 (also refinanced the house payment lower prior to that, allowing us to not rack up debt despite only one income for a year).  Aside from the trip we just took that will be paid off by month's end, there is no credit card debt either (easier to travel with the credit card than the check cards in case we need to dispute things).  Mostly want to get the kid's college taken care of with it (some of it we can't touch till 65, and will become part or our retirement though), but need to know the smartest way to do that. 

We are meeting with some local people soon, too, but the expert I had been working with prior to being out of work retired, and we don't know who to trust.   

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on June 17, 2015, 02:14:15 PM

Quote from: Unorthodox on June 17, 2015, 02:05:09 PM

Quote from: metaliturtle on June 17, 2015, 05:04:24 AM

http://www.listenmoneymatters.com/introduction-simple-investing/ (http://www.listenmoneymatters.com/introduction-simple-investing/)

Hey all, believe it or not I am a banker, I don't want to invest for you but I want to talk about making money, saving money, earning more returns and being awesomely frugal.  I'm trained to aid in budget building, debt resolution, credit cleanup, and I'm happy to provide my expertise to this group free of charge.  I attached an article to get you thinking.

. . . . We're actually seeking an expert...

hEt's parents both died in the last 6 months, having never had the chance to spend their retirement, so we got a bit of cash we gotta figure out the smartest thing to do with.   Once the house sells a bit more. 

We have the house payment, and one car payment, but otherwise destroyed all our debt prior to me being out of work for 2014 (also refinanced the house payment lower prior to that, allowing us to not rack up debt despite only one income for a year).  Mostly want to get the kid's college taken care of with it (some of it we can't touch till 65, and will become part or our retirement though), but need to know the smartest way to do that. 

We are meeting with some local people soon, too, but the expert I had been working with prior to being out of work retired, and we don't know who to trust.   

Not sure where you currently stand, work situation, etc. but I'm attaching a graphic of a good place to get started.  Reach out to a local CPA about avoiding taxes on it and then start at the top and work your way down.  (some won't apply).  This is as specific as I can get without knowing your overall situation and goals, but if you want to make money, this will work.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 17, 2015, 02:23:02 PM

Check, check, check for both of us on the top 3.  Again, house payment and brand new car are the only debts. 

Personally, I also rolled 4 previous employers 401s into a mutual fund and...some other fund that generates enough cash to pay the fees on the mutual fund and have a bit left over to reinvest...can't recall.  All together over 100k there, have to run a report to tell you exactly (it was 100k when I rolled everything 3 years ago, I don't pay attention/care how it's doing, it's a long term investment don't need to fret over ups and downs.  It's grown, don't know how much), and have a pension being paid monthly from a previous employer. 

We're down to the purple area on what to do with the money coming in from the estate.  How do we invest?  I don't understand it all, myself with the tax things.  Roughly 150-200k tax free cash depending on what the house sells for and how much tax that's gonna run, and a bunch more that we can't touch yet without big penalties, but have to remove so much every year despite that, I don't understand that part at all.  We want to know how to translate that tax free portion into a decent start at good schoolin for the kids. 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 17, 2015, 02:32:54 PM

Oh, my parents were also big on bonds, so from age 8-16 I bought monthly $200 bonds (been working since I was 8 ) that I got no real idea what to do with and don't really usually pay attention to.  Some of them could start getting cashed in, I guess, but what letter they are and whether that's wise or not, I don't know.  There's also some various 1 and 2 shares of stock of multiple companies from my Grandpa that I similarly don't pay attention to outside the occasional check for a dime in the mail. 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 17, 2015, 02:39:29 PM

Is paying off those outstanding debts an option?  I understand that a lot of lenders would rather skin you with interest over the long run, but you never know who might negotiate down a little for a large lump sum of cash in hand now if you made an offer.  -And that might save you enough long-term to be worthwhile, and simplify your month-to-month finances in a gratifying way.  Your stress (or rather lack of) has intrinsic value, after all.  -And the pride of paid-up ownership and the good effect of that on your credit rating, just in case.

Father taught me a horror of debt....

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 17, 2015, 02:54:22 PM

3 years ago we started the debt elimination.  Paid off one, started making extra payments with the money we saved there on another, etc.  I saw the eventual layoff coming that far in advance.  When Boeing pulled the whole pension buyout thing giving us a monthly payment now, we just put that straight toward the debt as extra payments as well.   

My last expert told me not to worry about the house.  We can afford it easily on a monthly scale.  We're at some rediculously low interest rate there anyway so it would be better to start making money work for us investing than to pay off the house. 

The car payment may be worth considering paying down/off.  It's BRAND new to the equation, we don't have a payment till August. 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 17, 2015, 03:02:21 PM

Daddy was a genius caveman who was wrong about a lot of things, but he was always right about money stuff - I don't have his business degree or head for numbers, but my first impulse -based in the world-view about money he taught me- in the situation you describe is kill the debt.  If you're paying through mail old-school, the very stamps and checks cost a little money.  The time spent paying has worth.  The feeling of the house is all yours is priceless. [shrugs]

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 17, 2015, 03:11:30 PM

Yeah, I was raised that way too, and that's my first instinct, but the expert said otherwise on the house. 

They approach it: if you can take that same money and earn 5% interest by investing, you're better off doing that than paying down a 3% interest loan.  The maths there at least make sense. 

Now, say we were able to pay OFF both the house and car (might actually be close if closer to the 200) and then invest what would have been our monthly payment on those from that point.  Is that going to be enough to compensate for the initial loss in interest by investing the lump sum?  My maths are not so good at that point, but it would probably take decades to catch up to the compound interest. 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 17, 2015, 03:22:36 PM

The maths logic does seem to scan.

Of course, only you can assess the value to you of not having to worry about it anymore - but one imagines that's not a low value.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on June 18, 2015, 04:43:45 AM

If paying off the house is important to you, pay it off even if the math isn't optimal.  Look into both 529 plans and coverdell educational savings accounts for the kids, you should be able to funnel additional funds into one or both of those.  Look into index funds over managed mutual funds.  Lots of times 'advisors' and 'experts' push a specific fund because it pays them more but a shop like Vanguard will be more low-cost and same-result type place.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 18, 2015, 11:56:42 AM

Eh, my credit union covers the fees for the expert I had gone to.  The mutual fund is a straight up flat monthly fee, no percentage, and no one's gonna make a killing on it as it's pretty low.  Just don't know that I trust the kid that replaced him.  I WAS talking to pretty much the president of the advisor group, but now that's someone back east and I got a newb. 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on June 18, 2015, 12:31:02 PM

Newbs are ok with these kinds of things, a lot of time they'll have a better knowledge of newer products (they may lack in social niceties/norms).  It sounds to me though like you're doing better than most people I work with.  You're at the point where starting a trust may make sense (if you haven't) or investing in select businesses (either starting your own small thing or helping a local person get their shop going, or buying individual dividend stocks)  Look for dividend aristocrats, reinvest the dividends while you and hEt are still working and use the dividends as fun money when you retire.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 18, 2015, 01:51:45 PM

Quote from: metaliturtle on June 18, 2015, 12:31:02 PM

Newbs are ok with these kinds of things, a lot of time they'll have a better knowledge of newer products (they may lack in social niceties/norms).  It sounds to me though like you're doing better than most people I work with.

My problem with people in general is when they start to sound like they're trying to sell me something.  New people are generally more pushy that way as they aren't secure in their own finances, yet, and I HATE salesmen.  Those in the business for a while tend to be more relaxed.  Let me tell you what I want to do, you figure out the best way to go about it. 

I know we're ahead of the curve for our age.  The 3 years of intense debt elimination helped tons.  Some of that dated way back, too.  We weren't in pretty shape prior to that in the debt department, but still doing ok as I started 401 stuff early.  There was a point during my being laid off when we realized we could actually make it on one salary if we had to.  Wouldn't be a lot of fun money, but it was doable. 

hEt's grandpa was a financial genius (literally), president of a local bank, board of directors on another, turned both banks around to being respectable before the MS started taking it's toll.  We're trying to set up a a meeting with the guy he trained and turned HIS money over to.  She also has an aunt and a cousin in banking.  We didn't want all our problems to be made family business 3 years ago, but we're in a spot now that it shouldn't be a problem to consult with them either.

YES, we need to do a trust.  I don't understand that stuff in the least, that's lawyering.   

And I'm sure this is going to cause all sorts of family drama if and when my parents/brother hear we got any money at all, but that's just gonna have to play out.  Not investing in that.  Still. 

To recap for those that haven't been around for it.  Brother owns a business, younger brother works there, dad "works" there (unpaid), it's struggling and I've been regularly accused of not providing enough assistance as I should obviously have invested cash into that sinking ship instead of all that debt reduction I was trying to do.  Parents dumped I don't even want to know how much into it.  They declared bankruptcy a year or more ago, and were sued by various people, but are somehow back in business and doing ok, but there's always a bottomless pit of a need for money and horrible management on the front end by the [disagreeable woman] my brother married.  (my sister in law my younger brother married is awesome.  There's 1 sister in law, 1 [disagreeable woman])   

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 18, 2015, 01:59:13 PM

ooo, curse filter...

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 18, 2015, 02:04:45 PM

Please edit when the filter fails.  There's ladies here, and that there's a woman disrespect term.  Thanks.


Sorry - I was going to leave it for you, but no telling how long before you're back.  I'm sure you understand.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Yitzi on June 18, 2015, 02:43:04 PM

Quote from: BUncle on June 18, 2015, 02:04:45 PM

Please edit when the filter fails.  There's ladies here, and that there's a woman disrespect term.

Actually, if it's the word I suspect it is, then I see it more as a term of disrespect for a particular woman, and therefore I would not expect it to offend women (other than the one being referred to, of course).  Although the women on the board would know that better than I would...

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 18, 2015, 02:46:55 PM

Quote from: BUncle on June 18, 2015, 02:04:45 PM

Please edit when the filter fails.  There's ladies here, and that there's a woman disrespect term.  Thanks.


Sorry - I was going to leave it for you, but no telling how long before you're back.  I'm sure you understand.

And I was leaving it for you in case we needed to know about the workaround.  ;)


I probably need to quit offending dogs by calling her that though...time to find a new word. 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 18, 2015, 03:23:07 PM

 :D

Quote from: Yitzi on June 18, 2015, 02:43:04 PM

Quote from: BUncle on June 18, 2015, 02:04:45 PM

Please edit when the filter fails.  There's ladies here, and that there's a woman disrespect term.

Actually, if it's the word I suspect it is, then I see it more as a term of disrespect for a particular woman, and therefore I would not expect it to offend women (other than the one being referred to, of course).  Although the women on the board would know that better than I would...

Yes.  Yes they would.  And I have spoken with Mylochka about that one -she's not in love with my comedy translation, even- and I'm pretty confident what Valka thinks.  I'd let that term pass for the [complaint] part with no hesitation -I'm trying to run a clean shop, but you can't please everyone, and it's pretty mild when there's things not in the filter word list that are worse- but the gender-specific term of insult is right out.  It's a man's world, and so, though I do not doubt Uno's assessment of the woman in question, we still need to be cool to the ladies, and they tend to not feel as comfortable around certain sorts of talk.

It's a "we can say it; you can't" thing, and courtesy recommends we gentlemen accommodate.

Uno, feel free to use the trick you sussed out when it means complain...

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 18, 2015, 03:26:40 PM

Vituperator should be fine with everyone, yes? 

For the record, most the time I type a cuss filter word, it's because I ENJOY the comedic definitions in the cuss filter.  That particular definition actually fits on both counts.  [complaint or disagreeable woman] just fits her as both a complaint and a disagreeable woman.  Though were she a man I'd find her just as disagreeable. 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 18, 2015, 03:33:58 PM

:D

Sure - or I like to use girldog even to mean complaint, 'cause I have that sense of humor going and it communicates both the intent and that I didn't actually go there.

I was discussing this on CFC recently w/ staff, and man, do they ever hold a standard I do not find entirely reasonable - and I was mostly supporting them.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Geo on June 18, 2015, 03:45:22 PM

You guys sound catty! ;lol

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 18, 2015, 04:22:09 PM

That would be because I am catty, sir...

But I can keep a nickel in my pocket w/o distress...

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on June 19, 2015, 04:12:17 AM

Unfortunate for the family business stuff UnO.  That being the case, the trust is doubly important, my guess is you insulate the kids from it, and the trust can do that financially for them as well as guarantee educational funding for them and their children.  Ask around your bank or those connections who they know who does trusts, usually one or two shops in a town are above and beyond the best.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 19, 2015, 01:39:43 PM

Along the same vein...

This Saturday, we're doing the estate sale to clear out the house...

I don't think my brother/sister in law know the first thing about putting together such a sale and they don't want to listen to me at all. 

Don't need to price label anything, no....because you want to answer "how much is this" 50 billion times?


*Serenity now*

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 19, 2015, 02:01:21 PM

Would they be any more inclined to listen to their sister?

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 19, 2015, 02:08:17 PM

It's not worth making her stress about hurting their feelings.  She's the oldest, and they're just as likely to pull the "i'm not gonna do it just because you said to" routine.  I just have to be annoyed Saturday, then it's over. 

I think someone is in a hurry to sell the house all the sudden, honestly, and just wants things out.  Doing a crappy job of the estate sale might lose you hundreds, but there is hundreds of thousands tied up in the house, so I get wanting to get it on the market ASAP.  Plus we have to maintain the lawn and yard while it sits, etc.  But a little time to make the estate sale easier isn't going to hurt anyone, IMO. 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 19, 2015, 02:12:15 PM

That is a winning attitude; you already have the "Uno, it's gonna suck but you can tough it out and then it'll be over" pep-talk internalized.  ;b;

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on June 30, 2015, 12:57:21 PM

Well, all of my dividends pay tonight, we will see how many days a year I don't need to work for a paycheck :)  (I am thinking it will be something like .2 days)

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 30, 2015, 01:59:07 PM

You have any good advice for small-time investing. 

Basically, wondering about my Halloween budget (basically $120 a month, but any games or stuff I buy also comes out of this)  Typically this sits in my checking for months on end doing nothing, then a big splurge of purchasing.  If I were to take, say, $500 and put it somewhere fairly liquid, are there any decent options? 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 30, 2015, 02:30:17 PM

Short-term investments worth doing are inherently risky...

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 30, 2015, 02:53:37 PM

I know it's commonly a joke, but I literally need a pumpkin futures contract. 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 30, 2015, 03:00:56 PM

Not so much a risk in my case, that.  I'm going to NEED 100+ pumpkins, if I could buy up to 500 of them (would prefer 200-250) now and guarantee delivery for a reasonable price, I can sell off the extras no problem.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 30, 2015, 03:01:48 PM

Talk to a farmer?

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Unorthodox on June 30, 2015, 04:04:00 PM

The only farm locally I think would do that, I don't negotiate with.  Most the others are just family run little things. 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on June 30, 2015, 06:17:18 PM

UnO, for that I'd tell you to put your money in an online savings account like this one https://www.gecapitalbank.com/en.html (https://www.gecapitalbank.com/en.html)
That's where my SHTF money lives.  Nice thing about it is 1% interest with no minimum deposit.  Better than sitting it in Checking anyway.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Geo on July 02, 2015, 07:50:36 PM

Quote from: Turtle O'Metal on June 30, 2015, 12:57:21 PM

Well, all of my dividends pay tonight, we will see how many days a year I don't need to work for a paycheck :)  (I am thinking it will be something like .2 days)

Must've been a pitiful amount since no update came for this. ;cute

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 03, 2015, 12:13:51 AM

It was more like .2 hours... guess I'm working some more

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 04, 2015, 07:52:22 PM

For what it's worth, I've had success with this approach in recent years, but it's not for small investors- http://www.thinkadvisor.com/2006/12/01/david-a-mallach (http://www.thinkadvisor.com/2006/12/01/david-a-mallach)

To be fair, lots of stock approaches have been profitable since the Great Recession, however, this still goes up when the market is stagnant or correcting.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 04, 2015, 09:17:59 PM

What made you decide initially to invest with David, Rusty?

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 04, 2015, 09:55:47 PM

Our broker retired. We got a younger guy, same office. He was doing the strategy himself, and recommended it to us. I thought that was interesting, because while my dad was the youngest bank president in the history of the county where I was born, and I was around financial talk much of my life, a lot of financial guys want to sell you the products which make them the most money, rather than the ones they use themselves. The broker  made us( me ) read the book first to understand it. The light bulb turned on for me. Markets are more about expectations than fundamentals.

It was an easy sell to my genius wife , who was a big firm public accountant, and then a CAO that worked on a lot of acquisitions. To here it was obvious that stock prices were about expectations, so an investment strategy designed to capitalize on that seemed sound to her.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 04, 2015, 09:59:45 PM

As the point Eddie Murphy's character in Trading Places made, the market's at least half gambling, not all sensible investment.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 04, 2015, 10:21:41 PM

Yes. The speculation factor.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 04, 2015, 10:26:05 PM

Educated betting for sure.  Any predictability is good for the person who predicts correctly.  It's also good to invest like your adviser invests and if they look like they need a sale, they're not investing in a winning strategy. 

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 04, 2015, 10:40:51 PM

Quote from: Rusty Edge on July 04, 2015, 10:21:41 PM

Yes. The speculation factor.

I actually know a guy who does only that - an old chess crony who's a retired lawyer and day-trades for fun (also greed) with money (I hope) he can afford to lose.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 04, 2015, 10:45:54 PM

The taxes on that are murder, I'm hoping he buys and holds a while when he's day trading.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 04, 2015, 11:02:00 PM

He talked about a lot of very quick turnaround (same day) shorting, is all I know.

I really do hope it was only fun money - he seemed to have done real well as an LA labor attorney.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 04, 2015, 11:11:34 PM

In the 1990s, when I had less money I had good results with Bill Staton
http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Finest-Companies-Investment-Plan/dp/0786882107 (http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Finest-Companies-Investment-Plan/dp/0786882107)

That was based on dividend re-investment plans, before online brokerage. Since then, some of the companies have frowned on small investors, figuring that the cost per share for mailing, etc. is higher, and bought most of them out.

I don't know how his approach weathered the Great Recession, or what his current advice is, but originally the concept was based on buying and holding companies that had long uninterrupted streaks of dividend increases and /or increased earnings per share ( usually these were blue chip/ S&P 500 ). You sell only when a company is disqualified from the newsletter list, or when you need the money.

The beauty of it was that it was designed to work on $50/month, with no brokerage costs after the initial set-up.

He has a website now-
http://www.statonfinancial.com/investing-philosophy/ (http://www.statonfinancial.com/investing-philosophy/)

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 04, 2015, 11:40:47 PM

If I had a big chunk of money to play in the stock market with right now I'd probably buy into the dividend aristocrats to create a perpetual income machine.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Yitzi on July 05, 2015, 04:00:39 AM

Quote from: Rusty Edge on July 04, 2015, 09:55:47 PM

Our broker retired. We got a younger guy, same office. He was doing the strategy himself, and recommended it to us. I thought that was interesting, because while my dad was the youngest bank president in the history of the county where I was born, and I was around financial talk much of my life, a lot of financial guys want to sell you the products which make them the most money, rather than the ones they use themselves. The broker  made us( me ) read the book first to understand it. The light bulb turned on for me. Markets are more about expectations than fundamentals.

Longer-term, the expectations will tend to follow the fundamentals, though.  Bubbles can only last so long before they pop...

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Geo on July 05, 2015, 08:12:22 AM

You can take that to the bank. ;)

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 05, 2015, 05:28:09 PM

Quote from: Yitzi on July 05, 2015, 04:00:39 AM

Longer-term, the expectations will tend to follow the fundamentals, though.  Bubbles can only last so long before they pop...

That sounds logical.

Mallach's strategy not only tells you what to buy, but when to sell. But there's a little more to it than riding the speculation wave. It's also as a good a way as any of finding the star performers.  One of our broker chosen basket of 10 or 11 stocks was Haliburton. I detest that rat-[progeny of unmarried parents] defense contractor. I wanted to replace it. Ultimately, we reasoned that we had agreed to let the broker try something and not back-seat drive him. Between that and procrastination, it stayed in the portfolio. As it turns out, that fracking  drilling process was suddenly taking off beyond belief. Who knew?

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 05, 2015, 05:44:40 PM

Just don't go on a hunting trip with the former VEEP

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 06, 2015, 01:59:05 AM

http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=1417.0 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=1417.0) ;lol

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 07, 2015, 05:23:05 AM

Morgan makes a good speech.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 07, 2015, 05:27:12 AM

It seemed relevant to the topic...

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Metaliturtle on July 08, 2015, 03:31:22 AM

I really don't like that guy when he comes up in SMAC..

Anyway back on topic, crazy maths for people who "just can't seem to save" try the 'one more dollar' method.  Works like this:

Week 1 you put $1 into savings.
Week 2 you put $2 into savings.
Week 3 you put $3 etc.

Most working people can find a dollar, and as time goes on you may get creative, but if you stick to it, after a year you have $1378 in savings.

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 08, 2015, 03:38:51 AM

A thought in household economics related to that; one day in the late 90s while I was there working a renfair, Mylochka woke up to find her refrigerator not working, irreparably.  Naturally, she was upset.

I said "what have you got in the bank?"  She said "[figure that was lower than ideal, but plenty for this]"  And I said "That's what savings is for; let's go buy a fridge."

(Later some stuff about refilling the savings, instanter, and working on increasing.)

Title: Re: In Which We Speak of Monetary Matters
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 10, 2015, 04:39:45 AM

Quote from: BUncle on September 09, 2015, 09:12:58 PM

throwing money at problems is always a last resort.  That's why I tend to HAVE money when it does come to last resorts.

See, Bank of Dad used to give these personal finance seminars as part of their customer service - actually, more lectures; the President of the Bank was an ungodly sharp fellow -who knew he was smart- with an uncomplex philosophy about personal finances, and who didn't mind repeating himself until the lesson got through - or you judged it safe to flee the room in terror.

Money is armor against a hard world, if you keep it close.  Nickel and dime, nickel and dime, nickel and dime ALL the small stuff ALWAYS - so when you get in a wreck and get laid up for six months, the hard world can't swoop in and take everything.  It does happen.  -Also, so you can afford to woop it up on vacation, within reason.  Broke legs and vacations -semi-modest ones within reason, nothing like four times a year- is what that money is FOR.

It is hard for me to understand most people, always, because this is the ocean I was born swimming in, when it comes to money, and 95% of USican are freakin' aliens to me when it comes to parsimony and savings.  Have a little doggon self control.  Foreigners are almost always a lot better; even first-world western Europeans aren't nearly so spoiled, mostly.  Latino immigrants, I've noticed - THOSE folks know how to make a penny scream as it dies, and I approve of them.

You never know when you might wake up without a refrigerator.