Alpha Centauri 2

Other Games => Civilization Beyond Earth General Discussions => Topic started by: BlaneckW on May 11, 2014, 10:16:17 pm

Title: Three separate paths
Post by: BlaneckW on May 11, 2014, 10:16:17 pm

You don't choose "Communist" path in civilization, why would you do it in sci-fi Civilization?  Doctrines and technologies are means, not at end.

Title: Re: Three seperate paths
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 11, 2014, 10:31:02 pm

I don't follow - in the RL history Civ vaguely models, many nations did choose "Communist".  It was a thing in CivII, and I don't recall about Civ 4 or know the others, but CivII, for sure.

Title: Re: Three separate paths
Post by: BlaneckW on May 11, 2014, 10:42:05 pm

Quote from: BUncle on May 11, 2014, 10:31:02 pm

I don't follow - in the RL history Civ vaguely models, many nations did choose "Communist".

Which mostly collapsed, or choosed a more advanced variation like China.

Title: Re: Three seperate paths
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 11, 2014, 11:12:53 pm

Still, communism may be on the run, but it hasn't gone entirely away...

Title: Re: Three seperate paths
Post by: BlaneckW on May 12, 2014, 02:23:48 am

Quote from: BUncle on May 11, 2014, 11:12:53 pm

Still, communism may be on the run, but it hasn't gone entirely away...

Is that even the point?  What are you going on about?  China is using a variation on the model.  A simulation should do the same: offer variations, not abide in block paths.  Even Civ 4 and 5 were on the way to this, though Civ 5 looks more infantile and to have cut out the economic question.  How politically correct of them.
http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Social_policies_%28Civ5%29 (http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Social_policies_%28Civ5%29)

Title: Re: Three seperate paths
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 12, 2014, 02:37:58 am

I can't tell your politics, but y'know, the basic idea of communism is actually a good one.  It's not found a workable expression yet, but the idea is a noble one, and it's easy to imagine revivals/reformations in the future.  Somebody may manage to create a culture it actually works in, none so far existing, to be sure.

If I'm derailing through misunderstanding your purpose in this thread, I'll bow out, no problem.

(BTW, would you like me to fix the spelling in the title?)

Title: Re: Three separate paths
Post by: BlaneckW on May 12, 2014, 02:59:34 am

Quote from: BUncle on May 12, 2014, 02:37:58 am

Somebody may manage to create a culture it actually works in, none so far existing, to be sure.

That would fall under the "Future Societies" category in Alpha Centauri.

Quote from: BUncle on May 12, 2014, 02:37:58 am

If I'm derailing through misunderstanding your purpose in this thread, I'll bow out, no problem.

I think we've all been waiting for a more advanced civics system.  The Civ series has become a mockery of this.
Civ 3 simply had you select a "government", while AC2's was more advanced.  But the Civs after that didn't give the advancement of the civics system justice.  It should be more intricate; the three paths system is a cop-out to replace political questions with a cartoon.

Quote from: BUncle on May 12, 2014, 02:37:58 am

(BTW, would you like me to fix the spelling in the title?)

Go ahead.

Title: Re: Three separate paths
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 12, 2014, 03:20:27 am

I'd just point out that it's already the future at the beginning of SMACX and BE...

Title: Re: Three separate paths
Post by: BlaneckW on May 12, 2014, 03:44:22 am

Quote from: BUncle on May 12, 2014, 03:20:27 am

I'd just point out that it's already the future at the beginning of SMACX and BE...

Good fiction considers modern questions.  Alpha Centauri had "planned" and "free market", but the world is more varied and complex than that and so should AC2.

Title: Re: Three separate paths
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 12, 2014, 04:02:20 am

Agreed.

Title: Re: Three separate paths
Post by: Vishniac on May 17, 2014, 07:25:22 am

Quote from: BUncle on May 11, 2014, 10:31:02 pm

I don't follow - in the RL history Civ vaguely models, many nations did choose "Communist".

NO nation ever did choose Communism.
Everytime communism was implemented somewhere was either by revolution, guerillas or a foreign invasion.

Title: Re: Three separate paths
Post by: Geo on May 17, 2014, 07:48:57 am

Quote from: Vishniac on May 17, 2014, 07:25:22 am

Everytime communism was implemented somewhere was either by revolution, guerillas or a foreign invasion.

Seems to me the same could be said of most political systems. Even (forms of) democracy in yours -and BUncle's country. ;cute

Title: Re: Three separate paths
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 17, 2014, 03:16:38 pm

;nod  Mostly the natives pushing it, although things are never simple in revolution...  Lenin was Russian.

Title: Re: Three separate paths
Post by: BlaneckW on May 17, 2014, 11:54:09 pm

I could have used the word monarchy, but the Russians like Stalin just fine - they also liked the last Tsar just fine.  The man was incompetent, but he was a reformer.

Title: Re: Three separate paths
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 18, 2014, 12:14:04 am

What was the relationship between Russia and Stalin's native Georgia before the Soviet Union?  Was it part of the Russian empire or a satellite state?  I don't know.

Title: Re: Three separate paths
Post by: BlaneckW on May 18, 2014, 12:16:32 am

Quote from: BUncle on May 18, 2014, 12:14:04 am

What was the relationship between Russia and Stalin's native Georgia before the Soviet Union?

Russia's hold on Georgia was tenuous - hence it's independence with the civil war.