Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Bug/Patch Discussion => Topic started by: poolside on May 03, 2014, 10:48:45 PM

Title: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 03, 2014, 10:48:45 PM
Hi, I'm new here. Not really sure where else to post this.

I'm using GOG's version with Yitzi's SMAX patch 2.5g. This is my compilation of stuff I've noticed.

Bugs:

* 9 times out of 10, when the enemy uses a Planet Buster, my game crashes. (Game-stopping bug. Have to reload 10-20 turns back to prevent the enemy from using it.)

* Very often, when a base stockpiles energy and it has drone riots, its credit influx can be a very high number, like 1070721313. (Can work around by loading back one turn, then fixing the riot and/or giving the base a dummy job.)

Annoyances:

* The pop-up for a faction's "urgent message" can appear up to five times in succession. (Though minor, it is nerve-wracking.)

* Sometimes, starting a new game will result in a game with an incomplete interface (no menus and zero information in the lower part of the interface). I have no idea what triggers it.

* It's asinine to click on "Transcendent Thought XX" when Blind Research is turned off, and so is the prompt for this "breakthrough". It's easy to suppress this by disabling the tech in alphax.txt, though I believe the tech score stops racking up at that point.

AI:

* I'm most often playing on "Thinker" level, but no faction ever uses Orbital Improvements.
* While the AI is devious enough to encroach on your territory by spamming colony pods (even when they're your Pact Brother/Sister), it could also "terrorize through terraforming" - plant fungus, take away land, etc.

Workshop:

* Why don't we get upgrade prompts more often? It's usually only when
 - a prototype of a unit is completed;
 - I have enough credits to upgrade all the obsolete units to the new
prototype;
 - a new power source is discovered.
Otherwise I'm in the workshop 24/7, upgrading units. Here's my proposal:
get an upgrade prompt every time there's enough credits to upgrade an obsolete unit to the new prototype/unit. Canceling the upgrade prevents any future prompt for that obsolete version.

* "Yes to ALL" doesn't seem to function as an option; I'm still having to click through all the prompts to upgrade.

* When I take over another faction's base, either the units they were building or if I get the units by mind control or if they transfer the unit over to my control, the unit's design sneaks into my workshop. That's completely unnecessary and annoying, considering I don't even get an upgrade prompt for it (and it's not even marked as obsolete when it often should be).

* The autobuild feature:
 - Probe Teams should provide Hovertank and naval versions;
 - Formers should provide Speeder, Hovertank and Cruiser versions;
 - Colony Pods should provide Speeder versions;
 - Probe Teams should upgrade their power sources.

The underlying principle is that non-combat units should be provided with new chassis and/or new power sources as they are discovered.

* SAM versions of units are excluded from the same upgrade path as non-SAM versions. I don't know if this is deliberate or not, but it makes for a very painful design and upgrade process, such as for example
 - not being able to upgrade a non-SAM unit to a SAM unit;
 - not being able to upgrade an obsolete SAM unit to a newer unit without SAM;
 - having to design two separate units with near-identical properties.

This could be intentional, but it is hellishly annoying still.

That's just off the top of my head. Happy to provide save games/screenshots.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 03, 2014, 10:56:41 PM
1.)  He'll want saves from the turn the bugs appear, just before w/ instructions on how to trigger.  He'll be by in about two hours, probably.

2.)  Welcome to AC2!  :danc:  How did you find us?
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 03, 2014, 11:17:28 PM
1) Great, I've got the Planet Buster bug right here, in the attached save. Just play the turn as per usual (I attack a base and another ship with the two ships.)

I'll post a credit bug save as soon as I encounter it.

2) All hail Google the Almighty! Developing a fiery love for this game over the past few months didn't hurt either.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 03, 2014, 11:20:53 PM
What search term(s)?  I have to worry about stuff like that...
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 04, 2014, 12:20:27 AM
smax patch  ;)
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: ete on May 04, 2014, 12:34:32 AM
AI:

* I'm most often playing on "Thinker" level, but no faction ever uses Orbital Improvements.
* While the AI is devious enough to encroach on your territory by spamming colony pods (even when they're your Pact Brother/Sister), it could also "terrorize through terraforming" - plant fungus, take away land, etc.
First may be a mid-term goal for kyrub's patch, which will shortly be merged into yitzi's. Second seems unlikely to be changed, allies should generally be friendly and figuring out when they want to push you would be really hard to get right in assembly.

* When I take over another faction's base, either the units they were building or if I get the units by mind control or if they transfer the unit over to my control, the unit's design sneaks into my workshop. That's completely unnecessary and annoying, considering I don't even get an upgrade prompt for it (and it's not even marked as obsolete when it often should be).
I use that to upgrade all sometimes. It's a bit of a bother, but also handy occasionally.

* The autobuild feature:
 - Probe Teams should provide Hovertank and naval versions;
 - Formers should provide Speeder, Hovertank and Cruiser versions;
 - Colony Pods should provide Speeder versions;
 - Probe Teams should upgrade their power sources.

The underlying principle is that non-combat units should be provided with new chassis and/or new power sources as they are discovered.
This can be changed in alphax.txt #UNITS, we're planning which custom units to include by default over in the modding forum.

* SAM versions of units are excluded from the same upgrade path as non-SAM versions. I don't know if this is deliberate or not, but it makes for a very painful design and upgrade process, such as for example
 - not being able to upgrade a non-SAM unit to a SAM unit;
 - not being able to upgrade an obsolete SAM unit to a newer unit without SAM;
 - having to design two separate units with near-identical properties.

This could be intentional, but it is hellishly annoying still.
Pretty certain this is intentional. It makes the divide between air and anti air cleaner, stops you from being able to massively change the roles of units on the fly. Is annoying, but a feature not a bug.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 04, 2014, 05:17:38 AM
When I tried to load your save to test it out, I got an error reading the file.  Maybe try another game with the same bug?

Also, ete, Kyrub's patch probably won't be merged into mine for a while, as porting from SMAC to SMAX may not be that easy and Kyrub isn't ready to do that until there's full SMAC'ing capability, which I do plan to get to but not that soon.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 04, 2014, 05:22:29 AM
I did make some changes to the vanilla configuration. I'll include the modified files in a .zip file as soon as I'm able.

Edit: here it is. As a sidenote, I've tried to load the save on a vanilla GOG version, and it loads normally, and there's also no crash after Domai uses the Planet Buster.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 04, 2014, 11:35:06 AM
AI:
* While the AI is devious enough to encroach on your territory by spamming colony pods (even when they're your Pact Brother/Sister), it could also "terrorize through terraforming" - plant fungus, take away land, etc.
Second seems unlikely to be changed, allies should generally be friendly and figuring out when they want to push you would be really hard to get right in assembly.

Lowering or raising terrain, for example, that would somehow affect an ally's base or territory, gives you a prompt to pronounce vendetta, and you can't do it in the vicinity of a Pact ally (the game requires you to cancel the Pact first).

Which leads me to believe that the "figuring out when they want to push you" would be unneeded - let them "terrorize through terraforming" only when they're in vendetta against you.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 04, 2014, 12:53:15 PM
I did make some changes to the vanilla configuration. I'll include the modified files in a .zip file as soon as I'm able.

Edit: here it is. As a sidenote, I've tried to load the save on a vanilla GOG version, and it loads normally, and there's also no crash after Domai uses the Planet Buster.

Hmm...it's loading for me under Kyrub's patch, but not my own.  I'll have to figure out what's causing it, as that's probably the culprit.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 04, 2014, 06:04:12 PM
Well, my difficulty loading it seems to be something where certain games don't agree with the combination of the debugger and the name terranx.exe.  Not quite sure what's going on there, but it happens even with Kyrub's .exe but not when it's not run through a debugger, so it can't be something to do with what I did and shouldn't affect most people.  So I'll just have to work around it to figure out what's with the planet buster crash.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 04, 2014, 06:07:14 PM
Why, BTW, the Silmarillionn reference in the thread title, poolside?
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 04, 2014, 06:11:20 PM
The bug has been fixed (and in the process I seem to have accidentally fixed the bug that was preventing me from loading it too), and a patch should be up shortly.

Why, BTW, the Silmarillionn reference in the thread title, poolside?

It's not Silmarillion, but rather A Song of Ice and Fire (whether George R.R. Martin was influenced by Tolkien in his choice of the word "Valar", I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 04, 2014, 06:14:53 PM
"Morghulis" sounds like something pertaining to Morgoth, too.  Not a subtle influence showing.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 04, 2014, 06:32:38 PM
It's a customary greeting in Essos.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 04, 2014, 06:36:08 PM
Well, no incest at AC2.

-I just made that rule up, but I'm gonna enforce it now. :D
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: DrazharLn on May 05, 2014, 12:22:25 PM
Clearly, the power has gone to your head.  :)
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Geo on May 05, 2014, 07:43:36 PM
Even with Yang's example to learn from? ;modban
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 05, 2014, 07:57:27 PM
I know, I know; I'm being a nerdbadged aspie prude, but if anyone figures out how to commit incest online, they may not do it here.  I'm not inclined to budge on that point.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 06, 2014, 06:56:41 AM
* Sometimes, starting a new game will result in a game with an incomplete interface (no menus and zero information in the lower part of the interface). I have no idea what triggers it.

Ah, an example of the no-interface bug. Interestingly, the data below is from a previous game. The map isn't, though.

Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 06, 2014, 02:56:42 PM
* Sometimes, starting a new game will result in a game with an incomplete interface (no menus and zero information in the lower part of the interface). I have no idea what triggers it.

Ah, an example of the no-interface bug. Interestingly, the data below is from a previous game. The map isn't, though.

That seems like it'd be a fairly difficult one to fix, and borderline impossible if there's nothing you can do to cause it to happen.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 09, 2014, 09:47:32 AM
(Using 2.5j.)

Alright, this is a major issue. Thus far I've managed to avoid it by playing smax on Windows XP. This issue appears, I believe, in all versions of Windows post XP. (I know for sure that it appears in Windows 7 and 8.1.)

When the game boots, I am left with this.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 09, 2014, 11:50:49 AM
(Using 2.5j.)

Alright, this is a major issue. Thus far I've managed to avoid it by playing smax on Windows XP. This issue appears, I believe, in all versions of Windows post XP. (I know for sure that it appears in Windows 7 and 8.1.)

When the game boots, I am left with this.

Strange...I've never seen that, and I play on Windows 7.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: DrazharLn on May 09, 2014, 12:07:44 PM
I also don't get that on win7. What does your AlphaCentauri.Ini look like?

Try setting DirectDraw=0 (under [Alpha Centauri]) and ForceOldVoxelAlgorithm=1 (under [Preferences]).

Also, where did you get your install files for SMAC from?
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 09, 2014, 03:14:24 PM
(Using 2.5j.)

Alright, this is a major issue. Thus far I've managed to avoid it by playing smax on Windows XP. This issue appears, I believe, in all versions of Windows post XP. (I know for sure that it appears in Windows 7 and 8.1.)

When the game boots, I am left with this.

Alright, I think I may have discovered the culprit. MacType hooks into the terranx.exe process and re-renders the fonts to a black font. So they look better, but you can't see them. :(
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 09, 2014, 03:22:29 PM
You're a Mac user?  If so, 55 would love to hear from you in the Mac users thread in ToE a level up...
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 09, 2014, 03:25:47 PM
You're a Mac user?  If so, 55 would love to hear from you in the Mac users thread in ToE a level up...

Uh, no, I'm not a Mac user (I wish!). MacType is a font renderer for Windows. https://code.google.com/p/mactype/ (https://code.google.com/p/mactype/)
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: ete on May 11, 2014, 01:56:12 PM
Also, ete, Kyrub's patch probably won't be merged into mine for a while, as porting from SMAC to SMAX may not be that easy and Kyrub isn't ready to do that until there's full SMAC'ing capability, which I do plan to get to but not that soon.
It'll take some time/effort (and wait until he wants to focus on it), but I thought it was he did not want to start until we had a proper plan rather than until everything was ready?
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 11, 2014, 02:36:06 PM
Also, ete, Kyrub's patch probably won't be merged into mine for a while, as porting from SMAC to SMAX may not be that easy and Kyrub isn't ready to do that until there's full SMAC'ing capability, which I do plan to get to but not that soon.
It'll take some time/effort (and wait until he wants to focus on it), but I thought it was he did not want to start until we had a proper plan rather than until everything was ready?

Not sure; maybe you can ask him to clarify.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 11, 2014, 06:13:39 PM
Major pain in the butt: the enemy reminding you that you have committed an atrocity against them every single time you come into contact with any of their units or bases. Proposal: disable these notifications altogether or have them appear only one time or provide an option to disable them. (Gee, I sound like a Progenitor now.)

But holy crap, this is hilarious.

Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 11, 2014, 08:46:11 PM
Major pain in the butt: the enemy reminding you that you have committed an atrocity against them every single time you come into contact with any of their units or bases. Proposal: disable these notifications altogether or have them appear only one time or provide an option to disable them. (Gee, I sound like a Progenitor now.)

But holy crap, this is hilarious.

It's a possibility but not a high priority.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 16, 2014, 03:46:10 PM
Weird upgrade prompts. Two prompt to downgrade, the third is dealing with two equivalent unit types having different functions.

Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Geo on May 16, 2014, 04:32:16 PM
The last one seems normal enough to me.

For the first two, did you tinker with the abilities costs?
Although the 'deep' ability isn't really a downgrade, it is weird the weapon value is decreased.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 16, 2014, 04:43:52 PM
The last one seems normal enough to me.

For the first two, did you tinker with the abilities costs?
Although the 'deep' ability isn't really a downgrade, it is weird the weapon value is decreased.

I didn't tinker with the abilities costs.

As for the last one: sometimes Amphibious comes in handy, sometimes AAA does. The game shouldn't decide on which is "better".
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 16, 2014, 04:50:37 PM
Can't you cut way down on those pop-ups with the workshop settings?  I never use auto-designs unless you count the reactor upgrades, so I turned auto-designing off.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 16, 2014, 04:54:35 PM
Can't you cut way down on those pop-ups with the workshop settings?  I never use auto-designs unless you count the reactor upgrades, so I turned auto-designing off.

Err ... this has nothing to do with auto-designs. Auto-designs occur when new tech is discovered enabling you to build new units in the workshop. (As a sidenote, yes, they're turned off in my options, have been for ages.)

These are upgrade prompts. (Which in my experience occur sporadically. They *should* occur whenever there's enough credits to upgrade batches of units to a newer already designed version, but that doesn't seem to be the case.)

They are two distinct concepts.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 16, 2014, 05:00:31 PM
Weird upgrade prompts. Two prompt to downgrade, the third is dealing with two equivalent unit types having different functions.

Strange indeed.  I can't really do anything about it without a savegame to work from, though.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 16, 2014, 05:06:50 PM
Weird upgrade prompts. Two prompt to downgrade, the third is dealing with two equivalent unit types having different functions.

Strange indeed.  I can't really do anything about it without a savegame to work from, though.

Thought you'd never ask!  :) Just end the turn. Nothing significant has changed in my config files since I posted them.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 16, 2014, 09:02:32 PM
Well, a bit of quick testing indicates that the bug does exist in Kyrub's, so I didn't add it, so it's going to take second place to fixing psi artillery (which I also didn't add, but is a much bigger issue, particularly due to the current GotM, though there's a good chance it won't be fixed this month.)  But it should be possible to deal with it eventually without too much difficulty.  One question, though: Obviously it should not offer or allow downgrades, but should it offer/allow upgrades that change one ability to another?  Should that depend on the relative costs of the abilities?
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 16, 2014, 10:12:32 PM
One question, though: Obviously it should not offer or allow downgrades, but should it offer/allow upgrades that change one ability to another?  Should that depend on the relative costs of the abilities?

My opinion on that issue is this: as I mentioned to Geo:

Quote
As for the last one: sometimes Amphibious comes in handy, sometimes AAA does. The game shouldn't decide on which is "better".

So my answer is a resounding no. There is one exception to that rule that I can think of: the offer to upgrade formers with Fungicidal ability to Super (but I'm 98% sure the game already does that). No other abilities really are upgrades of the others.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 16, 2014, 10:27:22 PM
I'm afraid Super isn't an upgrade over Fungicidal - one doubles the speed of everything but removing/planting fungus, and the other doubles the turns required for only removing/planting fungus.  IIRC.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 18, 2014, 03:36:37 AM
I'm afraid Super isn't an upgrade over Fungicidal - one doubles the speed of everything but removing/planting fungus, and the other doubles the turns required for only removing/planting fungus.  IIRC.

Fungicidal applies to removal only, not planting; you're thinking of the Xenoempathy Dome.  And I think Super Former applies to everything; you may be thinking of the fact that the Weather Paradigm does not apply to fungus removal.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 18, 2014, 04:03:29 AM
Maybe I need to play more often - but I'm pretty sure Super doesn't affect fungus operations.  ete?  What does the datalinks say?
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 18, 2014, 04:45:15 AM
Datalinks say it applies to everything.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 18, 2014, 05:07:03 AM
Feeling dumb.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 21, 2014, 09:19:43 PM
I don't know what the hell this is.

Notes:

- the base used to read "Data DeCentral".
- how can there be drone riots when I've got The Telepathic Matrix?
- there was supposed to be a base where the garrison is holding. it
doesn't exist anymore. Its name is also screwed up (used to read Monitoring Station).
- "OBJECTIVE:" ???
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 21, 2014, 10:01:30 PM
I don't know what the hell this is.

Notes:

- the base used to read "Data DeCentral".
- how can there be drone riots when I've got The Telepathic Matrix?
- there was supposed to be a base where the garrison is holding. it
doesn't exist anymore. Its name is also screwed up (used to read Monitoring Station).
- "OBJECTIVE:" ???

To fix it (and I'm pretty sure I could if I can replicate it), I would need a save from before that happens, with instructions on how to cause it to happen.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 21, 2014, 10:09:43 PM
Alright, here it is. Just end the turn.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on May 21, 2014, 10:50:01 PM
I loaded the game, ended the turn, and no bug.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on May 22, 2014, 01:44:38 PM
I guess I have this thing all to myself, then. Maybe it's something to do with my configuration. I am using the latest version, by the way.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on July 12, 2014, 11:33:45 PM
I never really quite understood the point of this.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: Yitzi on July 13, 2014, 03:58:30 AM
I never really quite understood the point of this.

It is probably an unintentional consequence of my changing the "cost" of stockpile from 0 to allow it to be used to control how many minerals it takes to produce 1 energy.  (If it doesn't occur when not using my patch, that's exactly what happened.)

I'll put it on the list to fix.
Title: Re: Valar Morghulis
Post by: poolside on March 11, 2018, 08:10:27 AM
So, when I end the turn in this game (Yitzi patch version 3.5d), it crashes.
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