First quick reaction:
- I don't see how it could be disruptive to original SMAC. Better AI is never bad for a game. Automatic design simplifies my work, I welcome it.
- The one problem I had with the alpha.txt changes was the fact, that (almost) everybody fiddles with this file, there is no standard (and you can't just overwrite personal settings of a player, I thought, that's rude). Putting SMAC in SMAX is a welcome opportunity to set such a standard.
- The second (smaller) problem is that unit's reactor is not upgraded. I believe this can be solved via .exe modding.
- The third problem: the units on the list automatically clutter human player's base workshop. Also, the player should do his designs alone, it takes something from the game. It is more of an annoyance, but I still dislike it, and would like to let it not happen.
- The fourth problem, there should not be too many units on the list, as I have some doubts about the effect on AI. AI has a workshop limit, that can be filled up, which then creates a set of extra decisions which are quite complex and probably not welcome (which unit should AI make obsolete etc). Alpha.txt designs are never made obsolete, so the design limit shrinks. AI already designs a good number of units, especially in late-mid game. And it should be a bit more, according to my AI project. (The list you linked, ete, has length I'd call pretty risky).
First quick reaction:Okay, good to know.
- I don't see how it could be disruptive to original SMAC. Better AI is never bad for a game. Automatic design simplifies my work, I welcome it.
- The one problem I had with the alpha.txt changes was the fact, that (almost) everybody fiddles with this file, there is no standard (and you can't just overwrite personal settings of a player, I thought, that's rude). Putting SMAC in SMAX is a welcome opportunity to set such a standard.
- The second (smaller) problem is that unit's reactor is not upgraded. I believe this can be solved via .exe modding.scient has an unfinished patch which includes this (well, lets you set the reactor of a unt) and a bunch of other changes. If someone can get hold of him and request a copy of his file it could be merged in.
- The third problem: the units on the list automatically clutter human player's base workshop. Also, the player should do his designs alone, it takes something from the game. It is more of an annoyance, but I still dislike it, and would like to let it not happen.I think these two only come into play strongly if there's a significant number of units added. Personally, I'd prefer to only add custom techs at tech levels that they're already available and at default prices, which only leaves a few designs not caught by the auto designer. The topic I linked was just somewhere to look for ideas, I would be hesitant about including anything like that many by default. Also, having a few designs otherwise missed can improve the game for humans, for example I played for years before thinking of the probe foil and started enjoying sea battles/exploration more once I was using it. Hints about units which are cool is positive imo, so long as it's not a flood of options.
- The fourth problem, there should not be too many units on the list, as I have some doubts about the effect on AI. AI has a workshop limit, that can be filled up, which then creates a set of extra decisions which are quite complex and probably not welcome (which unit should AI make obsolete etc). Alpha.txt designs are never made obsolete, so the design limit shrinks. AI already designs a good number of units, especially in late-mid game. And it should be a bit more, according to my AI project. (The list you linked, ete, has length I'd call pretty risky).
- The second (smaller) problem is that unit's reactor is not upgraded. I believe this can be solved via .exe modding.
You might be mistaken or maybe you saw a version of alphax to go with one of scient's unreleased patches?
#UNITS
23
Colony Pod, Infantry, Colony Pod, Scout, 8, 0, 0, None, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Formers, Infantry, Formers, Scout, 9, 0, 0, Ecology, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Scout Patrol, Infantry, Gun, Scout, 3, 0, 0, None, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Transport Foil, Foil, Transport, Scout, 7, 0, 0, DocFlex, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
*Sea Formers, Foil, Formers, Scout, 9, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Supply Crawler, Infantry, Supply, Scout, 10, 0, 0, IndAuto, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Probe Team, Speeder, Probe Team, Scout, 11, 0, 0, PlaNets, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Alien Artifact, Infantry, Artifact, Scout, 12,10, 0, Disable, 2, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Mind Worms, Infantry, Psi, Psi, 1, 5, 0, CentEmp, 3, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Isle of the Deep, Foil, Psi, Psi, 7, 8, 4, CentMed, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Locusts of Chiron, Gravship, Psi, Psi, 4,10, 0, CentGen, -1, 00000000000000000000000100000, 1
Unity Rover, Speeder, Gun, Scout, 3, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Unity Scout Chopper, Copter, Gun, Scout, 4, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000000100000, 1
Unity Foil, Foil, Transport, Scout, 7, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000100000000000000000000000, 1
Sealurk, Foil, Psi, Psi, 6, 6, 0, CentPsi, 4, 00000000000000000000001000000, 1
Spore Launcher, Infantry, Psi, Psi, 0, 5, 0, Bioadap, 5, 00000000000001000000000000000, 1
Battle Ogre MK1, Infantry, R-Laser, 3-Res, 0,10, 0, Disable, 6, 00000010000000000000000000000, 1
Battle Ogre MK2, Infantry, R-Bolt, 8-Res, 0,15, 0, Disable, 6, 00010010000000000000000000000, 2
Battle Ogre MK3, Speeder, String, Stasis, 0,20, 0, Disable, 6, 00010010000000000000000000000, 3
Fungal Tower, Infantry, Psi, Psi, 3, 0, 0, Disable, 1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Unity Mining Laser, Infantry, Laser, Scout, 0, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Sea Escape Pod, Foil, Colony Pod, Scout, 8, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1
Unity Gunship, Foil, Gun, Scout, -1, 0, 0, Disable, -1, 00000000000000000000000000000, 1Quote- The second (smaller) problem is that unit's reactor is not upgraded. I believe this can be solved via .exe modding.scient has an unfinished patch which includes this (well, lets you set the reactor of a unt) and a bunch of other changes. If someone can get hold of him and request a copy of his file it could be merged in.
I'm not sure if that's optimal for non-combat units. Often the best reactor to use for value is fission (infantry) or fusion (sea/speeder/tank/air), so the AI may end up overpaying if they just go for the max reactor level on non-combats. Ideal solution would be picking the cheapest reactor for units without a weapon module (super ideal solution: combine with scient's mod and have one of the reactor values work as "pick cheapest"), but that may be a lot more tricky.Quote- The second (smaller) problem is that unit's reactor is not upgraded. I believe this can be solved via .exe modding.scient has an unfinished patch which includes this (well, lets you set the reactor of a unt) and a bunch of other changes. If someone can get hold of him and request a copy of his file it could be merged in.
It is not necessary, I think.
Since AI designing is my job, I have studied the function, I know the place and I am 99% sure I can put an automatic "take best reactor" change in the process. Should be relatively simple.
Agreed. I think Geo's copy is more recent, and I'm not having a lot of luck finding mine. Geo?
Trawler -Some notes:
Police Infantry -
Basic Psi infantry -
I don't remember there being an installer with what scient linked me to last year; just the terranx.exe.
Geo? What's the date on the scient version you have?
You and your constant &^%$#@! travels. You pee away all your money jet-setting and now you make it my problem. :P
I think I'll ask Vish to punch you.
Getting back on topic. Everyone seems on board with adding at least a few units, and (correct me if I'm wrong) most people seem to prefer units which use default cost/are potentially worthwhile for humans to build rather than AI-specific superunits since AI units appearing to players is ugly and annoying, plus kinda cheating rather than making the AI play smart. We've not actually had much in terms of suggestions, other than Kilka's of basic phi troopers.
First off: How does the AI react to Psi units? If they're only built by factions who can really use them, then there's little harm including. If they're built inappropriately sometimes, then maybe best included in a text file with the factions who may want them as an "add this to #UNITS if you use this faction" thing?
Second here's a list to start us off. Suggestions please!
Probe Foil - Should be standard, but never used by AI and easily missed by humans
Trawler - Sea Crawler, perhaps only prototyped at fusion power with level 2 reactor because before then it's prohibitively expensive.
Probe Defender (aka Security Team) - Probe on infantry chassis. Cheaper and just as good at defending. Potentially armor it with something low level? iirc a guide talked about giving probes armor as last-ditch defenders, I think they still take -50% non-combat but are a lot less useless in conventional combat.
Possible:
Police Infantry - much better than scout infantry, ends up being useful until pretty late in the game when you stay out of FM.
some kind of air colony pod? - I think BFG was super keen on these, not tested myself. Could be handy especially without good roads or for getting to islands.
Basic Psi infantry - depends on whether the AI knows when to build them
Ideas? Opinions?