Alpha Centauri 2

Other Games => Civilization Beyond Earth General Discussions => Topic started by: BlaneckW on April 13, 2014, 01:27:24 am

Title: Pre-release review/commentary
Post by: BlaneckW on April 13, 2014, 01:27:24 am

Quote from: Dio on April 12, 2014, 03:59:12 pm

I have mixed feelings regarding this announcement. I hope it is not just another carbon copy of the game.  I also hope this game does not shutdown any current or future efforts to improve Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. Could it cause this community to disappear?

Hell no, put the setting on "intense rivalry" and install Kyrub's new AI patch and the game is fresh.  The AI knows what it's doing!  Except for missing Centauri Ecology, sometimes.
http://www.gog.com/forum/sid_meier_s_alpha_centauri_/unofficial_patches (http://www.gog.com/forum/sid_meier_s_alpha_centauri_/unofficial_patches)

http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/04/12/civilization-beyond-earth-interview-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-factions-aliens-technology-and-more/2/ (http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/04/12/civilization-beyond-earth-interview-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-factions-aliens-technology-and-more/2/)
"Will Miller: Yeah, the influence of Alpha Centauri will be apparent, but it's in winks and nods—it's an homage to that game—this game really is meant to be our version of the place that game sat when it came out. It's our version of this idea of mankind in space, and we started with that perspective of the fiction and the narrative, and also of Civ V. Civ V has enjoyed a huge success. There are lots of parts of that game that people really like, and we're building on the Civ V technology, so we took a lot of influences from that as well. If you're a Civ V player, you'll feel right at home."

Personally, I'm not a Civ 5 player, and I also hate winks; I find them perverse.  I liked Alpha Centauri as a strategy game, and not merely because it has a sci-fi theme.
"In this game it goes back to the fact that this isn't a story that's been told yet."
It has been told, and it's been told better, too.
_____________________________________________________________________

The statement that stands out is that they want it to be "different" than Alpha Centauri. Why make that statement? I'm not sure the meaning of that.  But I'm going to refrain in my review... in that the articles across the internet on the game and the video don't yet say very much. And that is what I count: what is unsaid.

So without further ado, my review with all of it's dry humour and snarkiness you are beginning to know and quite possibly dislike.

I can summarize from this article
http://www.joystiq.com/2014/04/12/civilization-beyond-earth-breaks-free-from-history-heads-to-th (http://www.joystiq.com/2014/04/12/civilization-beyond-earth-breaks-free-from-history-heads-to-th)/

The social engeineering choices thus far are university, gaians, and believers (with fortresses). I've said before on the AC2 forum that the faction ideologies could essentially be turned into social engineering choices, but at this point this is still very shallow in my opinion - mostly effecting military doctrine and orientation, but not, in my opinion, coming through in what should be full Civilization glorly. 

Of course, Alpha Centauri factions actually were based on real-world parallels - even including Chinese ideology!  I believe, personally, that there are limits, even strategic ones, to development on the basis of fictive world outlooks.  Gaians were not just mind-worm fanatics.  They were environmentalists with an alternative economic model.

"All [colonists] start in a common centerpoint surrounded by roughly recognizable technologies and then grow outwards into any frontier (orientation -ed) that you want.”
Technologies which, as at this point revealed, don't diverge from military affairs.

Telling me that there are "three affinities" also doesn't mean that the tech-tree has strategic depth. I don't see colony-setup offering sufficient strategic depth, possibilities, etc.  Being moved toward a given affinity because I have researched X technology...  does not fascinate me.  It's what you do, why you do it, what you can do with it, etc.  Do you get that gov tech - or would it be better to go immediately for the weapon tech?  What you have thus far in Beyond Earth is an RPG.  Which is fine, on the side.  Congrulations on leveling up +1 in Harmony. 

Having a technology "web" that eventually branches into one of three directions as to make for "completely different armies" (meh) by the end of the game just means to me that you gradually have less and less strategic choices in regards the tech tree - assuming there is any to begin with, and it's not just some sort of affinities level-up mini-game.

So, I'd call this one a more advanced remake of Pandora... you know, that sci-fi/alpha centauri themed civ that stripped out everything while boasting it's combat system.  That said, if you need to scratch your sci-fi themed itch (I don't, I am no longer a teenager) you can download Pandora for the still-outrageous price of 30$.  Or you can do what sensible people do and subscribe to Gizmag.  I've got about 60 of them still piled up in their own email folder, but they're still good reads on the go.  Or there's some animes out there!  I very infrequently watch anime, but they're not all bad.  Especially if you have the flu, or you do something else at the same tmie.

But while I currently find the comparison to SMAC very insulting,
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/210/403/OhCrap.png (http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/210/403/OhCrap.png)
there is some good news.

"There is always hope for the sequel — Civilization: Beyond Civilization: Beyond Earth: Beyond the Sword."
" the mechanical expansion is substantially different from that of Civilization 5 ."

"The new systems that are implemented here give this game complexity. I know our fans [are always] afraid of us dumbing something down. This is not dumbed down."
It's not dumbed down from Civilization 5.  I never played Civilization 5.
http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/whatwentwrong.html (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/whatwentwrong.html)

They later go on to explain that the game is not, in fact, Civ 5.
http://time.com/59516/sid-meiers-civilization-beyond-earth-might-be-the-alpha-centauri-sequel-youve-been-waiting-for/ (http://time.com/59516/sid-meiers-civilization-beyond-earth-might-be-the-alpha-centauri-sequel-youve-been-waiting-for/)
_____________________________________________________________________

Most of the interview was spent going over features common to every Civ game; and doing a short commentary on military doctrine.  But as you should know from Pandora, such things as developing your faction and strategies related to the technology tree is, in my opinion, where it's at, and not just shooty bang bang.

I don't know about you, but I've had enough of all this hiding the full extent of games pre-release.  Spoilers don't ruin enjoyment, so if you've got something, tell us.
http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2011/aug/17/spoilers-enhance-enjoyment-psychologists (http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2011/aug/17/spoilers-enhance-enjoyment-psychologists)

Let's see what they've got so far.

(click to show/hide)

"PC Gamer: I'm curious about the very start of the design process, when there's no art."
I'm not.  Moving on...

“You get to choose a bunch of customization options for who you are and what your colony expedition is made up of."
Yeah.  Well what are they?

"Starting with your faction and then selecting the colonists that go along, the spacecraft you travel in, the cargo you bring with you."
Sounds like Spore.  I did buy that one when it was one sale for five dollars, played it for several hours.

Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/civilization-beyond-earth-first-look-reveal-trailer/#ixzz2yijANdwu (http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/civilization-beyond-earth-first-look-reveal-trailer/#ixzz2yijANdwu)
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=8204.0 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=8204.0)

"PC Gamer: So there are three 'affinities' that you can take."
Right, exactly.  Zerg, Protoss, and Terran.

"Brenk: The world itself is something you have to figure out."
I like to think I have a pretty good grasp, but every once in awhile I come across these mind boggling interviews.  You have no idea.

"Will Miller: One good example of that is that, in my mind, there are two kinds of Civilization games. There's Civilization 4 and Civilization 5, then there's Civ Rev."
I beg to differ.  It's been awhile, but I'd play Civ 3 again, I'm done with Civ 4.  I have not yet bought Civ 5.

"Will Miller: The game can swing very dramatically one way or the other, and that's been an issue, resolving the desire to get that sort of drama in the game, while at the same time not upsetting fans of Civ V too much."
Civ what?  Hold on, I think I hear Triumph Studios calling.

"Will Miller: It's a tough balance to strike because we want to reach a new audience. We want to get to those XCOM fans who may not have played Civ because history wasn't their thing, or strategy gamers that are playing a lot of these strategy games on IOS, that haven't tried Civ before.""
It's funny you should mention that, I haven't played XCOM either, and I played Civ long before I gave that big a [poop]about history.  I played Civ because I have a brain.  If that sounds rude, that's because it is.

"David McDonough: There's no shortage of strange and incredible worlds out there, from Dune to the Buggers from Ender's Game."
I didn't even like Ender's Game.  But then, I only read the first book.

"PC Gamer: I like seeing those little nods and winks to classic sci-fi concepts. "
Yeah?

"David McDonough: Yeah, it's little bits of everything. There's a fair bit of Dune, obviously, with the worms. And Ender's Game with the bugs, and the hive mind idea."
Okay then.

"Will Miller: The robot samurai guy, the giant alien walker thing.  There's tons of little nods."
Sorry, I was falling asleep.

"David McDonough: The influences are different. The stories are different. The themes are different.  Very traditional Civ, very not-traditional, shedding even the strongest of conventions."
zzzzzzzzzzzzz

I'd like to give a more positive outlook to this one than I did Pandora, and to a certain extent I do, but the most they have going for them is a "three affinities" cliche, which, to my understanding, just effects your military and is basically the unit workshop - not anything to do with social engineering.  They focus on the sci-fi theme and the military, like Pandora.  The most they have to say about the Civilization aspect of the game is designing your space pod.  And to me the Civilization series was about making a civilization - I don't know what all this other stuff is.
 

Title: Re: Pre-release reviews/commentary
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 13, 2014, 01:30:27 am

So you have your doubts?

Title: Re: Pre-release reviews/commentary
Post by: BlaneckW on April 13, 2014, 01:50:52 am

Quote from: BUncle on April 13, 2014, 01:30:27 am

So you have your doubts?

I haven't been given much of value yet.  It should be better than Pandora, but that doesn't make it better than Alpha Centauri - or what it's sequel should be.  "Three affinities"...  effecting your military...  is better than Pandora, but doesn't excite me, doesn't open up a lot of complexity or possibility yet.  And it's not Civilization focusing on your Civilization.  It's another military game.

Title: Re: Pre-release reviews/commentary
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 13, 2014, 01:59:42 am

Honestly?  I'll be astonished if it's half as good as SMACX.  That game, for all that many can't take the color of the fungus, really caught lightning in a bottle.

Title: Re: Pre-release reviews/commentary
Post by: BlaneckW on April 13, 2014, 02:09:41 am

I'd like to give a more positive outlook to this one than I did Pandora, and to a certain extent I do, but the most they have going for them is a "three affinities" cliche.  They focus on the sci-fi theme and the military, like Pandora.  The most they have to say about the Civilization aspect of the game is designing your space pod.

I could Remind you about the Pandora gameplay video: your scout finds such and such sci-fi artifact and you get a popup with a dun-dun-dun noise.  Well, I don't care.  That sort of thing didn't make Civilization 3, my first Civ game (not better than Alpha Centauri), and I don't think it's made anything else either.  The Civilization series was about making a civilization - I don't know what all this other stuff is.

Title: Re: Pre-release reviews/commentary
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 13, 2014, 02:13:16 am

Honestly again, I've been dreading for years when someone does an 'Alpha Centauri 2'.  I'm a Star Trek fan, and know from bitter, bitter experience how badly getting what you want can work out.

Here's hoping I'm just being a boring old poot...

Title: Re: Pre-release reviews/commentary
Post by: Unorthodox on April 13, 2014, 06:15:33 am

Quote

"Will Miller: One good example of that is that, in my mind, there are two kinds of Civilization games. There's Civilization 4 and Civilization 5, then there's Civ Rev."
I beg to differ.  It's been awhile, but I'd play Civ 3 again, I'm done with Civ 4.  I have not yet bought Civ 5.

Don't buy Civ V. 

While I certainly spent more time on 3 than 4, I have to admit 4 is the superior game.  (though I really don't care for a lot of the little 'additions' in BTS.)

Title: Re: Pre-release reviews/commentary
Post by: BlaneckW on April 13, 2014, 06:51:48 am

Quote from: Unorthodox on April 13, 2014, 06:15:33 am

While I certainly spent more time on 3 than 4, I have to admit 4 is the superior game.  (though I really don't care for a lot of the little 'additions' in BTS.)

I've you spent more time on 3, then that's a dubious proposition.  By the way, I have some serial keys for some games you might be interested in buying.  Like, uh, Heroes of Might and Magic V.

Anyway, to continue.
Telling me that there are three affinities doesn't mean that the tech-tree has strategic depth. I don't see colony-setup offering sufficient strategic depth.  Being moved toward a given affinity because I have researched X technology...  does not fascinate me.  It's what you do, why you do it, what you can do with it, etc.  Do you get that gov tech - or would it be better to go immediately for the weapon tech?  What you have thus far in Beyond Earth is an RPG.  Which is fine, on the side.  Congrulations on leveling up +1 in Harmony. 

Title: Re: Pre-release reviews/commentary
Post by: Geo on April 13, 2014, 10:55:12 am

Quote from: BlaneckW on April 13, 2014, 01:27:24 am

...The statement that stands out is that they want it to be "different" than Alpha Centauri. Why make that statement? I'm not sure the meaning of that.

Perhaps there's still 'legal rights' reasons. :dunno: 2K/Firaxis might want to avoid them at all cost.
Or simply want to stand it on its own.

Title: Re: Pre-release reviews/commentary
Post by: BlaneckW on April 13, 2014, 10:58:45 am

Quote from: Geo on April 13, 2014, 10:55:12 am

Or simply want to stand it on its own.

Nonsense.

Here, I think this Civ 5 review fits here.
http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/whatwentwrong.html (http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/whatwentwrong.html)

Title: Re: Pre-release review/commentary
Post by: Geo on April 13, 2014, 01:05:04 pm

It doesn't. Quite dated actually.

Title: Re: Pre-release review/commentary
Post by: BlaneckW on April 13, 2014, 01:38:00 pm

Quote from: Geo on April 13, 2014, 01:05:04 pm

It doesn't. Quite dated actually.

The game was released mid 2012.

Title: Re: Pre-release review/commentary
Post by: Geo on April 13, 2014, 02:33:38 pm

I think its best we keep it at you can't enjoy CiV, and I can. :)

Title: Re: Pre-release review/commentary
Post by: BlaneckW on April 13, 2014, 02:52:15 pm

Quote from: Geo on April 13, 2014, 02:33:38 pm

I think its best we keep it at you can't enjoy CiV, and I can. :)

I can't enjoy sitting in front of the television set day in and day out, but you don't hear me complaining about that either.

Title: Re: Pre-release review/commentary
Post by: Geo on April 13, 2014, 03:14:11 pm

Perhaps you save that for another type of forum? ;lol ;b;

Title: Re: Pre-release review/commentary
Post by: BlaneckW on April 13, 2014, 03:36:33 pm

Not usually, no.

Title: Re: Pre-release review/commentary
Post by: BlueTemplar on May 22, 2014, 02:08:29 pm

Quote

It's a tough balance to strike because we want to reach a new audience. We want to get to those XCOM fans who may not have played Civ because history wasn't their thing, or strategy gamers that are playing a lot of these strategy games on IOS, that haven't tried Civ before.

This is very telling. We're not their target audience. And when he speaks about "catering to fans", it's about Civ5 fans.

While the somewhat bold vision gives me hope, I'm worried too about the likely lack of complexity, be it about empire building or combat. That Civ Rev is given as an example is worrying.