Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Bug/Patch Discussion => Topic started by: Nexii on March 07, 2014, 05:18:42 PM

Title: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Nexii on March 07, 2014, 05:18:42 PM

Has anyone seen this bug in Multiplayer hotseat games?  At times I have seen Human-controlled factions converting to being AI controlled.  I haven't been able to pin down the trigger (yet) or if it's just some random occurrence.  Will include saves of before/after once I figure out the year at which a faction converted (Gaians in my game).  For now just wondering if anyone else has seen this before.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Yitzi on March 07, 2014, 06:17:48 PM

Never seen it before (admittedly, I've never played MP before), but it probably wouldn't be too hard to figure out and fix if it can be reproduced.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: JarlWolf on March 07, 2014, 07:31:12 PM

It's SKYNET, and its starting with Alpha Centauri!  :o

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Geo on March 07, 2014, 08:18:20 PM

Makes sense. Earth is after all too crowded already (well, perhaps not Siberia? ;cute ;) ).

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Nexii on March 07, 2014, 10:38:14 PM

Saves attached (may have some load/save irreg since I was trying to pin down the years)

I think it's both Gaia and Morgan that switch from Human to AI

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Nexii on March 08, 2014, 02:15:41 PM

Quote from: JarlWolf on March 07, 2014, 07:31:12 PM

It's SKYNET, and its starting with Alpha Centauri!  :o

Haha.  It would be amusing if this was a random side effect of Cybernetic SE.  But unfortunately that doesn't seem to be so :)

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Yitzi on March 09, 2014, 01:07:07 AM

Thanks.  I'll put it on my list, though after 2.5.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: JarlWolf on March 09, 2014, 01:43:03 AM

Quote from: Yitzi on March 09, 2014, 01:07:07 AM

Thanks.  I'll put it on my list, though after 2.5.

 ???

That's a scary thought...  ;lol

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Yitzi on March 09, 2014, 03:06:07 AM

Quote from: JarlWolf on March 09, 2014, 01:43:03 AM

Quote from: Yitzi on March 09, 2014, 01:07:07 AM

Thanks.  I'll put it on my list, though after 2.5.

 ???

That's a scary thought...  ;lol

Why?

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: JarlWolf on March 09, 2014, 05:21:37 AM

That you're secretly robot trying to take over Alpha Centauri  ;lol

Just a joke.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Yitzi on March 19, 2014, 09:36:23 PM

Well, I've examined it and have determined that:

1. The bug occurred before the savegame in question.  For example, in the "new 2211" game you posted (with Morgan's turn active), the list of human players is "everyone except Morgan", and sure enough Morgan is turned over to the AI the following turn.  (Even that turn, I believe he will follow AI rules for drone calculations and the like, which may help track down exactly what causes it to happen.)
2. I cannot replicate the bug, at least not without more explicit instructions.  When I load the "new 2211" and just keep ending the turn, Morgan gets dropped (since he's already recorded as an AI player), but nobody else gets switched over to the AI.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Nexii on March 19, 2014, 11:45:51 PM

Alright.  I wasn't always saving every year so in this case I didn't have year 2210.  Since the scenario editor can't be used in MP games, at the least it should show that this bug exists. 

I've seen this in other MP games also, though I haven't pinned down the trigger.  Most times the bug will occur within 100-150 turns.  So if I play more and save every year I should be able to get another example save on the turn prior.  I don't think this is a recent thing because I've seen it in many patches back also.

I saw the same oddities on the last human turn, that is the AI advantages like reduced mineral costs.  Governors light up (production isn't actually altered).  Units also appear strange on the 'last human turn' in that they won't blink and you have to often manually go through the unit rotation.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Yitzi on March 20, 2014, 01:14:16 AM

Quote from: Nexii on March 19, 2014, 11:45:51 PM

Alright.  I wasn't always saving every year so in this case I didn't have year 2210.  Since the scenario editor can't be used in MP games, at the least it should show that this bug exists. 

I've seen this in other MP games also, though I haven't pinned down the trigger.  Most times the bug will occur within 100-150 turns.  So if I play more and save every year I should be able to get another example save on the turn prior.  I don't think this is a recent thing because I've seen it in many patches back also.

I saw the same oddities on the last human turn, that is the AI advantages like reduced mineral costs.  Governors light up (production isn't actually altered).  Units also appear strange on the 'last human turn' in that they won't blink and you have to often manually go through the unit rotation.

All those things are symptoms of the fact that it's already switched in the record.  However, an example save on the turn prior won't do it, as I had one of those (2211 was the "turn prior" for the Gaians, though not for Morgan), and the bug didn't happen for me.  It may be that it was because I was just ending the turn for everybody, so whatever would have caused it wasn't done.  Or maybe it's connected to save/load, which I didn't do.

On the plus side, it's an easy problem to fix in a particular game with a debugger, and the AI advantages let you know when it's happened so it can be fixed, so it doesn't have to ruin any games.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Nexii on April 17, 2014, 09:56:44 AM

Ok I was able to figure this one out.  It is related to save/loading.  If you select 'Quit' and 'Save' before exiting the game, the current human player turns to AI flag.  Then on the following turn they will be AI controlled.  The 'Save' to quit option seems to be the one to use and is a workaround.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Yitzi on April 17, 2014, 12:55:46 PM

Ok, I'll see if I can do something about that...does the problem happen even with non-password-protected games?

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Nexii on April 17, 2014, 12:59:36 PM

I was playing non-password protected games. 

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Yitzi on April 17, 2014, 01:22:16 PM

Ok, thanks.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Yitzi on April 24, 2014, 01:45:43 AM

Well, I've found it, but I'm not so sure the bug is it becoming AI.

When a human player decides to quit, their faction is turned over to the AI, and I think that's intentional; after all, they quit and just removing their faction would be too imbalancing.  The save is then intended to allow other players to continue the game.  The only bug is that when the game is loaded, it loads as their turn rather than ending their turn or letting the AI get it immediately (though a simple workaround to this is to, at the end of your last turn before leaving, quit, save, then load the saved game and end your turn).

If you want to end your turn and give it to the next player, the proper way is to hit "end turn" and then "save and quit" when it prompts for the next player's password.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Nexii on April 24, 2014, 02:27:38 AM

I think they sort of glossed over this but I understand now.  "Quit" means really quit - as in turning over your faction.  "Exit" means "I'm done for now". 

The other (less good) workaround I had was to Save, then Quit without Saving (Cancel when prompted).  But this will give Save inconsistency/tampering warnings.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Yitzi on April 24, 2014, 02:43:22 AM

Quote from: Nexii on April 24, 2014, 02:27:38 AM

I think they sort of glossed over this but I understand now.  "Quit" means really quit - as in turning over your faction.  "Exit" means "I'm done for now". 

The other (less good) workaround I had was to Save, then Quit without Saving (Cancel when prompted).  But this will give Save inconsistency/tampering warnings.

Doesn't it quit on you automatically when you save?

In general: If you want to take a break and come back later, save and then load; as long as you don't load a second time from the same save I don't think it will give any warnings.  If you're done with your turn, end turn and then choose "save and quit" instead of putting in the next person's password.  If you want to quit the game and turn it over to the AI, use quit, then load the game and end your turn (there'll be a tampering warning, but you're quitting anyway so it doesn't matter.)

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Nexii on April 24, 2014, 02:56:34 AM

Yea, it quits out automatically when you Save.  I think I was confused a bit there - I was using just Save as the workaround.  If you come into the game and decide you don't want to save any progress after playing for awhile, you can Quit and not Save.  Quitting this way won't turn your faction over to the AI, only if you actually Save when you quit out will your faction be turned over.

Title: Re: MP Human player becomes AI
Post by: Yitzi on April 24, 2014, 03:02:26 AM

Quote from: Nexii on April 24, 2014, 02:56:34 AM

Yea, it quits out automatically when you Save.  I think I was confused a bit there - I was using just Save as the workaround.  If you come into the game and decide you don't want to save any progress after playing for awhile, you can Quit and not Save.  Quitting this way won't turn your faction over to the AI, only if you actually Save when you quit out will your faction be turned over.

However, that means that the latest available save will be from before that progress...and loading from that again will create a warning for everyone to see.