Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Bug/Patch Discussion => Topic started by: Buster's Uncle on January 15, 2014, 09:10:21 PM

Title: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 15, 2014, 09:10:21 PM

Yitzi, I promised to post it the next time I captured an eco-damage stack.  Well, here you go.

Attached is the save right after the capture; for good measure, also the autosave from the beginning of the turn, though I've not been able to repeat it.  The stack holds 18 NL - 15 worms and three spore launchers.  It may be significant that I finished the Voice of Planet right after the pops...

Enjoy.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Geo on January 15, 2014, 10:08:50 PM

Must set this thread to unread...

Which version of the game are you using for this one?

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 15, 2014, 11:07:01 PM

This is unpatched.  V.1, I think.

Quote from: Geo on January 15, 2014, 10:08:50 PM

Must set this thread to unread...

Oh?

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Yitzi on January 15, 2014, 11:47:11 PM

Ok, thanks, I plan to take a look.  Though I'm not sure how much I'll be able to do if it can't be reproduced.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Yitzi on January 16, 2014, 07:17:58 PM

Well, I was able to reproduce it quite easily, and I looked at the code, and as far as I can tell, you should always be able to capture a whole stack (provided you'd be able to capture a single worm).  So if you can give an example of a case where you can't capture the whole stack, and there's no "capture failed" message, that might help figure out what, if anything, is going on.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 16, 2014, 07:21:19 PM

If that happens, I've never noticed...

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Yitzi on January 16, 2014, 07:47:24 PM

That might be because you can't capture if your nearest base is producing ecodamage or the worms in question are due to your ecodamage (though in either case you'll get a message), and stacks that you can attack which don't fit either condition are quite rare.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 16, 2014, 08:43:43 PM

I'm pretty sure both conditions are met, though; adjacent base Apha1 is producing ecodamage, which caused the pop that produced the worms.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Yitzi on January 16, 2014, 09:15:52 PM

Quote from: BUncle on January 16, 2014, 08:43:43 PM

I'm pretty sure both conditions are met, though; adjacent base Apha1 is producing ecodamage, which caused the pop that produced the worms.

That's funny...when I look at it, it doesn't seem to be producing any.  Maybe you'd better provide the alphax.txt that you're using, maybe you're using different values than default.  And the unit information, where I think is "who it's targeting", shows "nobody"...

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 16, 2014, 10:39:19 PM

Here.

On review, I see Alpha 1 was producing damage until some workers were displaced by pop-worms.  Put them back and it still is.  Naturally the damage was more before two fungal pops began the turn.  (The other is by Fungus Evreywhere, which I didn't name.)

I wonder if it matters that the tank I captured with is 'supported' by UN Headquarters...

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 16, 2014, 11:08:28 PM

Huh.  While I was in the turn checking the ecodamage, I did it again.  This time I saved with the capturing unit still in place.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Yitzi on January 18, 2014, 11:58:28 PM

Quote from: BUncle on January 16, 2014, 10:39:19 PM

Here.

On review, I see Alpha 1 was producing damage until some workers were displaced by pop-worms.  Put them back and it still is.  Naturally the damage was more before two fungal pops began the turn.  (The other is by Fungus Evreywhere, which I didn't name.)

I wonder if it matters that the tank I captured with is 'supported' by UN Headquarters...

It does not matter where the unit is supported, only what the closest base you own is.

Quote from: BUncle on January 16, 2014, 11:08:28 PM

Huh.  While I was in the turn checking the ecodamage, I did it again.  This time I saved with the capturing unit still in place.

So what it looks like is happening is that the rule about "if the nearest base has ecodamage, you can't capture" is working (which is why it rarely happens that you can capture), but the rule about "if they're targeting you because they're a response to your ecodamage, you can't capture them" is not.  That is a bug, and one that I have put on the list to fix, though probably not in version 2.5.  I think I'll be able to replicate it, but in case I can't, it might be good to provide the autosave from before the pop that created the worms in question.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 19, 2014, 03:25:10 PM

You needed to ask for that at the time.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Yitzi on January 19, 2014, 04:31:15 PM

Quote from: BUncle on January 19, 2014, 03:25:10 PM

You needed to ask for that at the time.

Ah well.  So next time it happens, then.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 22, 2014, 01:56:31 AM

...And to my immense surprise, next time is now.  I just captured a fungal tower along with a eco-damage stack.

Enjoy.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Yitzi on January 22, 2014, 07:31:38 AM

And here I'm not quite ready to work on that yet...

But when I am, I presume the first autosave is from before the pop?

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 22, 2014, 03:53:16 PM

Autosave1 is from before the capture.  Autosave 2 is from before the pop.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Yitzi on January 22, 2014, 04:11:16 PM

Ok, thanks.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Yitzi on February 06, 2014, 03:36:22 AM

Well, I can't reproduce it...however, it seems to be only with worms that are not in workable area (i.e. either outside your territory or outside your base radius), so it's probably designed to be that once worms leave the workable area they turn "wild" again instead of going after you, and once that happens you can capture them.

For further investigation, I think I would need to look at a case where popped worms either just popped outside the workable area, or just moved outside the workable area.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 06, 2014, 05:25:36 AM

Hmm.  It's normal scatter from a pop on the turn it happened - I don't know if that involves the worms moving from the pop square, or what.  And again, the tower capture is very rare, so small wonder you haven't been able to reproduce.

Title: Re: Eco-damage worm stack capture
Post by: Yitzi on February 06, 2014, 09:01:50 PM

Quote from: BUncle on February 06, 2014, 05:25:36 AM

Hmm.  It's normal scatter from a pop on the turn it happened - I don't know if that involves the worms moving from the pop square, or what.  And again, the tower capture is very rare, so small wonder you haven't been able to reproduce.

I know just what causes the tower capture, that's not the issue.  I haven't reproduced the pop happening in a place where it scatters to outside the radius.  (Also, it can't be the worms moving from the pop square, as then the tower wouldn't have moved.  The tower, at least, must have popped outside the base radius.)

Oh, in addition to the two cases I mentioned, I could also probably use a save of worms that popped inside the radius, and then move away from the base they popped for, with the save being from before they move away.