Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Topic started by: Dio on August 19, 2013, 09:43:37 PM

Title: SMAC(X) Wiki faction and graphics news thread
Post by: Dio on August 19, 2013, 09:43:37 PM

I have decided to help ete by making a faction editing guide. Stay tuned for more news.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: ete on August 19, 2013, 10:10:32 PM

Excellent, looking forward to having a guide which explains all the obscure interactions and clarifies things like what exactly penalty can be used on (loads of factions use it for Planet, not a SE choice), the way the pop modifier works, techshare/sharetech, talent bonuses, etc.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Dio on August 20, 2013, 12:36:24 AM

Ete, attached to this post is a draft of the guide.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: ete on August 20, 2013, 01:13:43 AM

That was quick :), and already very detailed!

There's a few minor tweaks I'd like to make:
It'd be good to have the format of social bonuses of more than +/-1 clarified, just so people are doing ++GROWTH not +2GROWTH or similar which I've seen in a few bugged files.
Since it'll be on wiki, rather than giving the details of each social parameter, we can just link to the pages, so rather than having the contents of http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Planet (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Planet) in the guide we just need a link to it.
You refer to Social Category, I've mostly used Society Effects (we both have pretty much the same for social models).
I'm not sure about calling them major and minor bonuses, because some of the minor bonuses can be extremely significant and some readers may misunderstand the section and think they are unimportant. Perhaps Limited and Unlimited bonuses (or effects rather than bonuses maybe)?
Rather than "Note: The parameter is ignored." perhaps "Any parameter gives the effect.", to avoid confusion with some readers maybe thinking the entire bonus is ignored.
Generally, a different format to Note: would be a little nicer to read imo.
Some grammar nazi fixes which I can do on wiki.

Also some questions:
Have you tested the negative values for all the things you've said work with negative values? There's a lot which I've never seen used as negatives, though that may just be lack of people using them that way.
The terraform bonus applies only to raising/lowering land is new to me, you have tested it?

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Dio on August 20, 2013, 01:37:55 AM

All of the things that I have noted as working when negative have been tested by me. Also, I think society effects are the bonuses and penalties you get from social models.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Sigma on August 20, 2013, 01:41:21 AM

Quote from: Dio on August 20, 2013, 01:37:55 AM

All of the things that I have noted as working when negative have been tested by me. Also, I think society effects are the bonuses and penalties you get from social models.

So the -Psi attack actually works? I was asking about that earlier in my faction thread, since having a negative % isn't an option in the Facedit.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Dio on August 20, 2013, 02:22:05 AM

Quote from: Sigma on August 20, 2013, 01:41:21 AM

Quote from: Dio on August 20, 2013, 01:37:55 AM

All of the things that I have noted as working when negative have been tested by me. Also, I think society effects are the bonuses and penalties you get from social models.

So the -Psi attack actually works? I was asking about that earlier in my faction thread, since having a negative % isn't an option in the Facedit.

It is not just psi attack but also psi defense. Yes it does work. However, this rule appears as gaian psi. The name can be changed by going into labels.txt and searching for gaian psi.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Dio on August 20, 2013, 04:01:27 PM

ete, I have made some changes to the file.

1. I removed most of the notes and simply left the relevant information.

2. I changed the labels at the top of each section.

3. I removed the section that shows all of the social effects except for Research. The reason for this is that I think my version is much more clear about its effect.

4. Changed parameter is ignored to any parameter gives the effect.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Geo on August 20, 2013, 04:23:50 PM

Now I see how I could add more then 8 benefits to factions which were all implemented ingame! Some of those were minor benefits! Good to know!

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: ete on August 20, 2013, 04:31:35 PM

Looks good!

I'll format and upload it to the wiki, you can make future changes directly to it on site? I'll also integrate your description of research (and some others) into the relevant pages, crediting you in the edit reasons.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: ete on August 20, 2013, 05:58:47 PM

Uploaded it :). Questions!
"Also, do not try to give satellites or secret projects through this ability."
What happens if you do?

"This rule reduces the cost of your faction's probe team actions by a specific percentage. For example, PROBECOST, 75, would mean that your probe team actions would cost 75% of normal. The standard cost is 100%."
Does it work for over 100% too?

Offense and Defense work for negative values, right?

"As far as I know, setting this to a negative number does not give a penalty to energy gained from treaties and pacts."
This would be good to test sometime, mostly putting it here for my own reference.

"For example, TALENT, 4, means each size 1 base starts with a talent and gets an additional talent for every four population it has (e.g. the base at sizes 5, 10, 15, 20 and so on, would get another talent)."
The difference between each of those numbers is 5, not 4? Maybe you mean 5, 9, 13, 17?

"Also, do not attempt to put a negative number in the parameter. This causes a bug to occur."
What bug?

"Mindworms act control an additional drone when used as police."
Does this apply to other native life forms?

I also added a load of effects to Aquatic and Alien which it would be good for you to check.

You can check all changes I've made while uploading here: http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/index.php?title=Faction.txt_editing_guide&action=historysubmit&diff=5832&oldid=5829 (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/index.php?title=Faction.txt_editing_guide&action=historysubmit&diff=5832&oldid=5829) and edit the page here http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/index.php?title=Faction.txt_editing_guide&action=edit (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/index.php?title=Faction.txt_editing_guide&action=edit)

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Dio on August 20, 2013, 06:06:48 PM

Okay I just tested Probe Cost. It does work when above 100%. For example, it costed 150 energy credits for a faction without the increased cost to subvert a scout patrol. It had cost the faction with the cost increase 187 energy credits to subvert the same scout patrol.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Dio on August 20, 2013, 06:26:48 PM

So I just tried wormpolice. It appears as though their is no difference between a faction with that ability and one without it. Could it be a bug?

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Dio on August 20, 2013, 06:31:13 PM

If you try to give satellites or secret projects through the free facility bonus, the game freezes right after you select your faction.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Dio on August 20, 2013, 06:33:54 PM

When you put a negative number in the parameter for either the talent or drone faction abilities, it causes the citizen display at each base to become glitchy and blacked out.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Dio on August 20, 2013, 06:40:42 PM

Quote

Okay Dio, I'll update with Probe Cost and any other results you have later. And I thought wormpolice worked? Maybe there's some factor in your test blocking it?

I made sure to eliminate any normal factors that might effect that test.

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Dio on August 20, 2013, 06:48:29 PM

This was unexpected :o. When you set the rules OFFENSE or DEFENSE to a negative number, it gives the faction's units -100% + the parameter. For example, if you set OFFENSE, -25, then all of your units get -125% when attacking.  Did you know that you can have a negative strength value?

Title: Re: Faction editing guide.
Post by: Dio on August 20, 2013, 07:10:26 PM

Quote from: Dio on August 20, 2013, 06:48:29 PM

This was unexpected :o. When you set the rules OFFENSE or DEFENSE to a negative number, it gives the faction's units -100% + the parameter. For example, if you set OFFENSE, -25, then all of your units get -125% when attacking.  Did you know that you can have a negative strength value?

After some further testing, when you set those rules to, for example, OFFENSE, 75, it works properly by giving -25% when attacking. This is still unusual given that these specific rules operate differently from every other faction rule that can give a bonus to attack or defense.

Title: Re: SMAC(X) Wiki faction and graphics news thread
Post by: Dio on August 21, 2013, 01:47:55 AM

This thread is no longer hijacked :D :(. I do not know whether to be happy or sad.

Title: Re: SMAC(X) Wiki faction and graphics news thread
Post by: Dio on August 22, 2013, 03:57:02 AM

Another thing regarding tech. Any units that would be automatically prototyped by a tech a already prototyped for that faction. For example, morgan starts with industrial base which gives synthmetal armor. At the start of each game he can build synthmetal garrison without having to prototype them.

Title: Re: SMAC(X) Wiki faction and graphics news thread
Post by: Geo on August 22, 2013, 03:40:49 PM

I suppose it's reasonable to have prototyped if you already know the tech at the start.
Besides, the same holds true for both progenitor factions.