Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Topic started by: ete on August 15, 2013, 11:17:31 AM

Title: Faction rating
Post by: ete on August 15, 2013, 11:17:31 AM

First off, to familiarize myself with the system and give examples, approximate ratings for official factions. Bear in mine these numbers are not %s and the average baseline is set to 40, not 50. And of course for different maps/situations different factions are stronger or weaker (fungus for natives, tech feeding for yang or domai, trading for morgan, high sea for pirates, etc). Here we go:

 ;deidre;
Rush: 50 (+ for worms to fight and get pods, - for morale drop)
Build: 35 (+ for effic and early formers, - for no +1 eng/square)
Average: 42.5

 ;yang;
Rush: 46 (+ for free perims and indust, - for poor research/energy)
Build: 46 (+ for free Planned/PS, + for +1 growth/Indust, - for bad energy/research and no demo)
Average: 46

 ;morgan;
Rush: 32 (- for -1 Support, + for starting with armour)
Build: 58 (+ for easy +1 eng/square and commerce, - for no Planned so hard pop booms)
Average: 45

 :danc:
Rush: 40 (nothing to see here)
Build: 45 (+ for talent, votes, and bigger bases)
Average: 42.5

 ;santi;
Rush: 56 (+ for Morale and speeders, - for indust)
Build: 35 (+ for wormcash, - for Indust and no wealth)
Average: 45.5

 ;cha;
Rush: 58 (+ for worms)
Build: 28 (- for no +1 eng/square, - for indust penalty, + for wormcash and pods)
Average: 43

 ;aki;
Rush: 45 (+ for tech)
Build: 53 (+ for effic+research, - for hard pop booms)
Average: 49

 ;roze;
Rush: 45 (+ for early/good probes)
Build: 42 (+ for sharetech)
Average: 43.5

 ;domai;
Rush: 35 (- for no tech to rush with, + for troops)
Build: 55 (+ for facilis/SPs, - for terrible research)
Average: 45

 ;miriam;
Rush: 60 (+ for massive support and fanatic)
Build: 30 (- for research)
Average: 45

 ;zak;
Rush: 44 (+ for quick impact, - for probe issues)
Build: 55 (+ for research, - for drone problems)
Average: 49.5

 ;ulrik;
Rush: n/a (sea start)
Build: 47? (+ for uncontested expansion on sea, - for growth/effic)
Average: 47?

 ;marr;
Rush: 62 (+ for Morale, offence, battle ogre, tech start)
Build: 48 (+ for growth, rec tanks, directed research, - for no demo)
Average: 55

 ;caretake;
Rush: 57 (+ for planet, defence, and battle ogre)
Build: 53 (+ for rec tanks, directed research, defence)
Average: 55

Comments on these ratings should not be the focus of posts, they are primarily examples. If you think I have made a major error (got a faction's stat off by more than 5-8) then let me know with reasoning, but I don't want to get bogged down by tweaking the examples by a few points when these ratings for official factions are not going to be used anywhere in the near future.

Now, let's have some suggestions on which custom factions are good to start with. Probably best to start with 10 or so that have some interesting gameplay and philosophy, then review. http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Category:Custom_factions (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Category:Custom_factions) is a list of on wiki custom factions.

I'd like to have some of the factions in development, if you faction makers want to pick your favourites that'd be good. Mostly looking for factions which add something new and distinct to the game.

My initial interested list:
http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Crimson_Comrades (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Crimson_Comrades) - getting a lot of use, strong philosophy and playstyle
AntiMind - mostly to test the rating system, also seems popular. Alternatively: http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/The_Rangers_of_Chiron (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/The_Rangers_of_Chiron)
One of the many terraformer factions.
http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/The_Freelancers (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/The_Freelancers) - Free HQ is cool and interesting. But need a balanced version, because +3 Econ is insane.
http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Guardians_of_Morality (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Guardians_of_Morality)

Title: Re: Faction rating
Post by: Sigma on August 15, 2013, 02:07:02 PM

Nice! I would have expected Deidre to be higher and Zakharov to be lower, but like you said we aren't aiming at nitpicking.

Title: Re: Faction rating
Post by: JarlWolf on August 15, 2013, 04:06:48 PM

I think for sea factions you need to compare them to other sea factions, and if their ability to rush land bases. Pirates get transports early as well as Amphibious landing pods, correct me if im wrong, and can settle the land relatively easily, or take over bases.

Plus in Builder terms, I don't know if it's official, but I always see the Pirates starting off the coast of Monsoon jungles..

Title: Re: Faction rating
Post by: Kilkakon on August 16, 2013, 02:38:09 AM

Sadly most of my factions aren't applicable! Ah well. :D

Title: Re: Faction rating
Post by: Green1 on August 16, 2013, 06:07:21 AM

Antimind popular?

I thought you knew that Antimind is the third alien faction!  ;lol

I would like to see it's rating, though.

I agree, Miriam is OP. But do not take that nerf bat too my lady!

Title: Re: Faction rating
Post by: ete on August 17, 2013, 10:01:58 PM

@Sigma: I think it was an earthmichel post from some months ago which made me take a close look at Deidre, and realize that.. they have surprisingly few advantages, and a very notable penalty. Worms are nice but not being able to get +1 eng/square severely hinders their development after the early stages.

Uni being so high somewhat surprised me too, maybe I'm not taking enough of the drone problem into account.. but drones don't bother me that much any more. Especially with the VW. And maybe I'm overestimating their rushing power.

@JarlWolf: Yea, having sea factions only rated against sea factions is a sound idea. They're very different and extremely map-dependant. I don't think the pirates can often rush a land based faction, but maybe a sea based one. And not heard/noticed them starting off the jungle coast.

@Kilk: Yea, unfortunately your LE ones would have to be rated against each other not existing custom/official factions. Having different social eng choices is a very big deal.

@Green1: Mirriam is not rated as OP, just a very focused rusher. Official factions will not be altered to create balanced forms, though I would like to create intentionally overpowered versions of each of them at some point.

Title: Re: Faction rating
Post by: ete on August 18, 2013, 12:48:19 AM

Let's do some of these. Comments appreciated, but try to identify specific important reasons to change scores significantly, a couple of points most likely won't change the tier of a faction which is all that really matters.

AntiMind - http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/AntiMind (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/AntiMind)
Rush: 110-120 (+ for loads of worms, high planet, psi bonus, fanatic)
Build: 35-40 (+ for fungal energy/nuts, double terraform rate, - for terrible industry and low growth)
Average: 72.5-80

The Rangers of Chiron - http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/The_Rangers_of_Chiron (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/The_Rangers_of_Chiron)
Rush: 65-75 (+ for loads of worms, + for extra morale)
Build: -5-5 (- for terrible industry, research, hurry penalty, and no +1 eng/square)
Average: 30-40

Guardians of Morality - http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Guardians_of_Morality (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Guardians_of_Morality)
Rush: 55 (+ for fanatic, indust, support, - for research)
Build: 58 (- for research, growth, and drone issues, + for loads of minerals, good support, police)
Average: 56.5

Notes: Huge mineral advantage allows it build extremely well once it has some tech for facilities, but has a very slow start if isolated and some major issues. Can beat almost anyone at war if similar tech level thanks to support, fanatic, and having vastly more troops than anyone else.

Crimson Comrades - http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Crimson_Comrades (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Crimson_Comrades)
Rush: 62 (+ for better morale than sparta and almost unlimited free support)
Build: 50 (+ for free planned, unlmited support for formers, - for no +1 eng/square)
Average: 56

Notes: Top class military+loads of support=near-perfect conventional troop rusher (side effect: loads of formers with enough morale to survive worms). Free planned makes the singular large penalty (no FM) irrelevant, and running planned when others are forced out by ineffic gives big growth/indust boost.

Title: Re: Faction rating
Post by: JarlWolf on August 18, 2013, 12:56:20 AM

I think I might modify the Comrades at some point, once I get stuff off the plate with the others, and change that penalty to Fundamentalism. The Comrade's, while tolerant of religion and some may even support religious communes, are generally an atheistic organization that does not allow religion to run any part of the gov't, and the influence of religion is reduced through overriding and drowning out by the faction ideal itself.

So I think that might help with balancing them a bit more...

Title: Re: Faction rating
Post by: Green1 on August 18, 2013, 12:58:14 AM

Sounds about right for antimind.

It is not the big builder, but a worm rushing monster.

Sometimes it can take the Annihilators and the Exterminatus, but sometimes it gets obliterated if those two can get pumping.

Title: Re: Faction rating
Post by: ete on August 18, 2013, 01:14:01 AM

I'm up for helping suggest/give feedback on stuff for a balanced CC, but a fundy penalty will do little to hurt the CC, they would very rarely run fundy in order to be hit by the penalty (maybe if they were getting fed tech and in a desperate conflict, but eh, not much). I've gone into more detail before, but basically my thoughts are: Drop the morale modifier 1 to make them less perfect rushers (keep +1 Morale though), give them something to stunt them at least a little early game (starting with a free former and tech for free formers is a major head start they really don't need, and none of their disadvantages have a real effect early game), and either add a major penalty to compensate for their support or remove a significant bonus (free planned for example), then maybe they'd be comparable with others.

@Green1: Yea, AntiMind is a rusher to the max. It can be a lateish game threat because once it gets going it techs fairly fast due to all that fungus energy, but it's not scary like it is early on.