...We need to light a fire under our CMNs. Both the active ones are letting RL distract them. I wish we could lure Mart and Darsnan out of retirement, too, for that matter.
Someone more knowledgeable of MP than I will have to tell you why CMNs are necessary - something to do with a bug...
Playing on automatically generated map is very risky – starting location quality (continent size, moisture on landing site, special landmarks, etc.) and all the distractors nearby (hostile AI just few squares away) can have significant impact on your chances to grow quickly – if the differences are too big (and with random placement they usually are) it may be a game breaker for a part of the players.
For example – when you start on 3x3 island, from one point of view you can consider it as a challenge, but from the other, and probably more rational side, you can think of it as of having to spend a year or two playing a game, your chances to win were close to zero since the first turn. My personal vote is that the chances should be possibly close to equal for all the players what without CMN can’t be guaranteed.
Playing on automatically generated map is very risky – starting location quality (continent size, moisture on landing site, special landmarks, etc.) and all the distractors nearby (hostile AI just few squares away) can have significant impact on your chances to grow quickly – if the differences are too big (and with random placement they usually are) it may be a game breaker for a part of the players.
And playing on a map where those things don't happen is a definite game breaker for part of the players, namely those playing the Believers, Spartans, and Cult. (Probably Hive as well.) Some factions need early-game conflict to give them a chance to use their strengths and keep the builders under control.
Basically, a CMN leads to a game where everyone can grow quickly, but that's unfair to non-builders.QuoteFor example – when you start on 3x3 island, from one point of view you can consider it as a challenge, but from the other, and probably more rational side, you can think of it as of having to spend a year or two playing a game, your chances to win were close to zero since the first turn. My personal vote is that the chances should be possibly close to equal for all the players what without CMN can’t be guaranteed.
Whereas I think that on random maps it's at least close to equal before map generation, whereas with a CMN-made map even that won't happen, as he's probably not going to allow for the chance of early-game conflict that momentum factions need.
That said, a 3X3 island is a problem (even with a free starting transport), but I think that's fairly rare (and if needed, some "conditions for restart" can be made when making the game, though a nearby enemy should not be among them).
That’s all true, but most of the players seem to prefer builders approach and therefore most of the games are launched on those typical, “well balanced” maps.
But please let me assure you that “well balanced” map is not a game breaker for Cult – as per last several years, I’m ready and willing to play as The Cult of Planet against all those builders, no matter the odds! :) I’ve been the Cultist since the beginning and I’m really sure they have equal chances even on (theoretically) builders-orientated maps, so I fell completely comfortable with them.
About the idea of conditional restarts, I think it’s a really good one, but I doubt if any builder would risk joining the game without the warranty there are no momentum players nearby – the probability of early conflict would be too high for them.
That's part of the risk; if they have early conflict it'll be harder than had they played a hybrid or momentum faction, but if they don't then they'll have an advantage. As long as things are considered over a sequence of games rather than a single game changing rankings dramatically*, that won't be a problem.
I think there is one more very interesting choice (I played few times with) – you can ask CMN to prepare the game with equal starting locations, but ask him to randomize distance between players (33% chances to be very close, 33% to be moderate and 33% to be as distant as possible).
It guarantees equal starting locations, but makes the distances unpredictable (in theory – in practice, due to the borderlines bug, usually you can estimate exact scenario since the first cities are built and borderlines are drawn).
What is the borderlines bug?
QuoteWhat is the borderlines bug?
Borderlines are always set 6 squares away from your cities, until you have any neighbors – if you have them, borderlines are set in half of the distance between closest pairs of cities, no matter you see the cities of your neighbors or not. So in short: less than 6 squares = other player nearby. You can even predict exact locations of the cities you don't see.
That's not a bug; it just means that you only have to get halfway to a nearby city to find it.
And in any case, even if you know that the Believers or Spartans are nearby, they'll still have the advantage (but of course if they're far away from anyone else they'll have a disadvantage.)
That’s true, so the only way to follow if you decide to use typical map (quite distant starting locations set by CMN) is not to choose them...
Ok, enough philosofy.
Im back in town and we have here Yabcok (welcome back!), typhoeus and probablly Tarvok.
What game are you after? builder or conqueror?
I am okay with just about anything.
But, may I suggest we do go with directed research.
Copters are okay. My reasoning is there are counters to copters and if it goes that long, it will make everything quick work to end it.
I suggest a small to standard map.
No spoils of war.
Setup | Preferences | cam91 | Green1 | luppolo |
? | Yitsi/Scient/none | ? | ? | ? |
? | Map | ? | ? | ? |
? | Size | ? | ? | ? |
? | Ocean coverage | ? | ? | ? |
? | Erosive forces | ? | ? | ? |
? | Native life forms | ? | ? | ? |
? | Cloud cover | ? | ? | ? |
? | Unity pods | ? | ? | ? |
? | Difficulty level | ? | ? | ? |
? | Allow Victory by Transcendence | ? | ? | ? |
? | Allow Victory by Conquest | ? | ? | ? |
? | Allow Diplomatic Victory | ? | ? | ? |
? | Allow Economic Victory | ? | ? | ? |
? | Allow Cooperative Victory | ? | ? | ? |
? | Do or Die: Don't restart eliminated players | ? | ? | ? |
? | Look first: Flexible starting locations | ? | ? | ? |
? | Tech stagnation: slower rate of research discoveries | ? | ? | ? |
? | Spoils of war: Steal tech when conquer base | ? | ? | ? |
? | Blind research: cannot set precise research goals | ? | ? | ? |
N/A | Intense Rivalry: Opponents more aggressiv | N/A | N/A | N/A |
? | No Unity Survey: World Map not visible | ? | ? | ? |
N/A | No Unity Scattering: Supply Pods only at landing sites | N/A | N/A | N/A |
? | Bell Curve: No Random Events | ? | ? | ? |
? | Time Warp: Accelerated Start*(on/off/custom) | ? | ? | ? |
? | Colony pods at start | ? | ? | ? |
? | Scout Patrols (1-1-1) | ? | ? | ? |
? | Starting Formers) | ? | ? | ? |
ON | Iron Man: Save/Restore restricted to exit | N/A | N/A | N/A |
N/A | Randomize faction leader personalities | N/A | N/A | N/A |
N/A | Randomize faction leader social agendas | N/A | N/A | N/A |
? | Expected turn rate (usually 24h) | ? | ? | ? |
N/A | Number of days to wait before turn is 'pushed' | N/A | N/A | N/A |
Setup | Preferences | cam91 | Green1 | luppolo |
? | Yitsi/Scient/none | ? | ? | ? |
? | Map | Don't mind | ? | ? |
? | Size | Standard | ? | ? |
? | Ocean coverage | Don't mind | ? | ? |
? | Erosive forces | Don't mind | ? | ? |
? | Native life forms | Average | ? | ? |
? | Cloud cover | Average-Dense | ? | ? |
? | Unity pods | Yes, everywhere | ? | ? |
? | Difficulty level | Transcend | ? | ? |
? | Allow Victory by Transcendence | Yes | ? | ? |
? | Allow Victory by Conquest | Yes | ? | ? |
? | Allow Diplomatic Victory | Yes | ? | ? |
? | Allow Economic Victory | Yes | ? | ? |
? | Allow Cooperative Victory | No | ? | ? |
? | Do or Die: Don't restart eliminated players | Don't Restart | ? | ? |
? | Look first: Flexible starting locations | Don't mind | ? | ? |
? | Tech stagnation: slower rate of research discoveries | No | ? | ? |
? | Spoils of war: Steal tech when conquer base | No | ? | ? |
? | Blind research: cannot set precise research goals | Don't mind | ? | ? |
N/A | Intense Rivalry: Opponents more aggressive | No | N/A | N/A |
? | No Unity Survey: World Map not visible | Not Visible | ? | ? |
N/A | No Unity Scattering: Supply Pods only at landing sites | Supply pods everywhere | N/A | N/A |
? | Bell Curve: No Random Events | Random Events | ? | ? |
? | Time Warp: Accelerated Start*(on/off/custom) | No | ? | ? |
? | Colony pods at start | 1-2 | ? | ? |
? | Scout Patrols (1-1-1) | 1-2 | ? | ? |
? | Starting Formers) | 0-1 | ? | ? |
ON | Iron Man: Save/Restore restricted to exit | N/A | N/A | N/A |
N/A | Randomize faction leader personalities | No | N/A | N/A |
N/A | Randomize faction leader social agendas | No | N/A | N/A |
? | Expected turn rate (usually 24h) | 24hr | ? | ? |
N/A | Number of days to wait before turn is 'pushed' | 3-5 | N/A | N/A |
Faction- Miriam
Patch- Yitzi's 2.2b. Min should be Kyrub's SMAX patch PLUS.
Faction- Miriam
Patch- Yitzi's 2.2b. Min should be Kyrub's SMAX patch PLUS.
2.3b has fewer bugs than 2.2b.
If we are playing on a small or tiny map I'll go the Spartans instead.
Setup | Preferences | cam91 | Green1 | luppolo |
Yitz | Yitz[/Scient/none | ? | Yitzi's | ? |
Random | Map | Don't mind | Random ? | Random? |
I will chose Tiny or Small | Size | Standard | Tiny or Small | Tiny or Small |
ok | Faction | Spartans | Miriam | Yang |
Directed | research directed or not | Don't mind | Directed | Don't mind |
Yes | tech stag | No | Yes | yes |
No | special rules | No | No | No |
N/A | Number of days to wait before turn is 'pushed' | 3-5 | N/A | N/A |
Give me until Monday Sept 9th. I have just taken a job with rotating 12s and it is really kicking me in the rear.
I apologize, they put me on a friggin 90 hour rotating 12s.
I barely had the energy to do anything but sleep, much less crank up a computer and game.
Crank it up and we shall begin :D
Sorry about my fatigue.