Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 12, 2020, 07:18:14 PM
He also pointed out Induktio, Nevill, Mercantile Interest, EmpathCrawler, dino and Tayta Malikai as deserving. Are we missing anyone for something badge-worthy? Are we missing any badges?
-I've also laid only the third AC2 Hall of Fame badge ever awarded on bvanevery. He gives me more of a pain than anyone ever un-perma'd here - and works harder to promote/build/support AC2 than anyone but me and sisko; it is deeply appreciated, and he really rated another badge while I was in there...
Post by: bvanevery on September 15, 2020, 04:34:31 PM
Thanks!
And thanks for specifically noticing a promotional contribution. I just had exactly the opposite experience with the moderator of r/alphacentauri and will not be setting foot there again. I've spent years trying to boost up the traffic of that sad little sub, and arguably with some success. When the "real center", r/4Xgaming, has 20x the membership and is so much better run, by people who have really given blood, sweat, and tears for the genre.
I think the r/alphacentauri mod is just some part timer, moderating a bunch of different subs. They have treated me pretty much like I'm some kind of troll or problem child, because I have strong opinions about the game and will voice them. Comments that nobody even bats an eyelash about in r/4Xgaming, because it's expected that people will debate these games. No acknowledgement or even memory of all the things I've done to Make SMAC Great Again. Like any time I interact with that mod, we're starting over from zero. "Who are you?" Not even the slightest basic respect, just "do I what I say or I'll ban you".
r/alphacentauri can get its promotional boosting from somewhere else now. If there's now a critical mass of people to carry that ball, fine, whatever. Don't care. Won't shock me if it gets quieter over time, not louder. It doesn't have the leadership needed to thrive, and I'm not real convinced that "community organics on Reddit" will carry such things alone. We'll see. I'll be interested to see what the sub's health is a year from now.
I'd seize power if there was a way to do that, but AFAICT there isn't. I don't think making a competing group like r/SMACmods is productive at this time. I'll stick to r/4Xgaming, with the somewhat respectable 20k membership and a constant influx of "new blood" that will try SMAC.
Anyways, thanks again. This is the long explanation of why that means something to me. I'm actually starting feel like there's something like community growth on AC2. It feels a bit different than a few years ago. More energy.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 15, 2020, 05:53:25 PM
Incidentally, we've got a link to our mirror of the defunct official site in the Wikipedia AC article - if we had substantial back-linked YouTube content and I stepped up our Facebook presence, we'd have hit the triple crown of SEO...
Post by: bvanevery on September 15, 2020, 06:37:31 PM
Post by: Tayta Malikai on September 19, 2020, 09:21:21 AM
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on September 29, 2020, 08:43:41 PM
Sorry if I missed anybody. Feel free to expand the list.
I just noticed badges are clickable but lead nowhere. Should they lead to their description or something?
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on September 29, 2020, 08:51:02 PM
I usually consider posting there for mynew releases only if I have something exciting to say about them. Not every bug fix I made.
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on September 29, 2020, 10:17:29 PM
Why do I think this is important? Because it opens up the whole ecosystem of this game to everybody and increases awareness. Currently, we have pretty little traffic of old guys and not much new people are coming. So this portal could be like an extended guide/manual/introduction to everybody in nice and concise manner. Currently there are some lists of subcontent like mods, art, factions, stories, wiki pages, etc. but they are scattered across different sites and different media. So this portal would serve like an entry point to all possible aspects of the game. Structure wise I am thinking something like this: http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/pc/mm7/. However, it should include not only original game content and description but also all community contribution, etc.
Keep in mind I am not proposing to to write all content there right away. It would be a huge work. More of creating skeleton navigation system where everybody would post their material and link and updates, etc. I don't want to duplicate content either. So linking out existing content is fine.
And if you think something like that already exists but I just wasn't aware - let me know.
Post by: bvanevery on September 29, 2020, 11:12:59 PM
What we've got here is way better than that. Even if it has flaws in your view, that site you linked, is simply not a working example of "what would need to change".
Did you mean to link the toplevel site, rather than the M&M7 page? It is slightly better, but I am still not impressed. Sidebar is cleaner, better readability and contrast. Categories are not crazy. Main viewing area is a bad use of space, just boring big text. Art direction is substandard compared to AC2.
Now I will contemplate AC2, trying to have the eyes of a beginner, rather than someone who is used to it. I'll await your reply before commenting further.
Bear in mind that SMAC is an old game and there's only so much audience growing you can do.
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on September 29, 2020, 11:18:38 PM
This was just an example of a top level directory organizational approach I meant. This site does not need an improvement. I was talking about an additional feature that helps people navigate over the whole AC world.
Post by: bvanevery on September 29, 2020, 11:31:24 PM
fullscreen experience |
Here's what the toplevel site looks like to me. I don't see any problem with this at all. It is aesthetically pleasing. It maximizes content to suck you in. It has a nav bar that's simple enough to be useful and not intimidating.
I do think that the various sub-areas of the site, lack aesthetic unity, and to a noob may feel "disjoint". However I don't see that as a dealbreaker for getting info about the game. I don't know to what degree mere feelings are going to put anyone off to digging around, or locating what they want. I do have my own cognitive biases as a mostly self-taught computer programmer. However, it is the 4X genre, so I'm not sure we should assume squeamishness on the part of new players.
The web forum format is old school, and pre social media, but that's fine for me personally. I don't really need or even want all that "big icon touchpad dumbed down" stuff. I'm not a moron who doesn't know how to use a computer. I'm a 4X gamer.
Wikis, well funky art direction and disorganization, are tradeoffs against others being able to add and change stuff freely. I've not typically seen a wiki that's as organized as a curated website. They sprawl. If you want to get stuff out of them, you have to swim. And if someone wants an experience that's more curated, that's "better than a wiki", well someone has to actually do the work. Usually someone doesn't, hence wikis. It's a form of public outsourcing.
I think some anecdotes from people who have actually objected to the AC2 site in some way, would be in order. Perhaps the many denizens of r/4Xgaming would be willing to comment. I don't think asking in r/alphacentauri is fruitful, because they don't represent much in the way of new blood.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 29, 2020, 11:40:33 PM
-If members compiled a list w/ links, I could make a .hmtl page and add it to the Resources category at the top of the page... ;nod
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on September 30, 2020, 12:08:04 AM
http://alphacentauri2.info/ResourceCenter/
Post by: BU Admin on September 30, 2020, 01:52:46 AM
I just noticed badges are clickable but lead nowhere. Should they lead to their description or something?I busted this account to regular member to check, and they still take me to a page with a list of recipients, at least while browsing in Chrome...
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 30, 2020, 02:01:08 AM
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on September 30, 2020, 04:47:11 PM
Yes, that is what I had in mind. The most top level directory that leads to all AC content scattered across the net. These leads could be links (this site or external) or just plain articles. Most likely links as a lot of content is already out there.
The AC2 resource center (http://alphacentauri2.info/ResourceCenter/) and wiki directory (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Main_Page) do the job but they a little bit not the top level one 😉 and they are TWO separate entry points and they are quite short in directory aspect too. Maybe we can keep expanding it/them. My thought was to let people modify and expand the directory of this top level site because it is not a single man job.
Post by: bvanevery on September 30, 2020, 08:12:21 PM
In contrast, what do noobs want? There's a Datalinks sidebar on the right. And I'm not averse to using a Search function. Or telling other people to use a Search function.
Do you think there's great content hiding on the wiki somewhere, that noobs need to see, and can't find themselves? I'd be interested to know what those burning items are.
I have my own biases. I usually want to know about some gory innard of the game, like how a probe team mind control formula actually works. Somehow I do tend to find the wiki page about what I'm looking for.
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on September 30, 2020, 08:26:50 PM
Post by: EmpathCrawler on October 02, 2020, 02:21:13 AM
In contrast, what do noobs want? There's a Datalinks sidebar on the right. And I'm not averse to using a Search function. Or telling other people to use a Search function.
Do you think there's great content hiding on the wiki somewhere, that noobs need to see, and can't find themselves? I'd be interested to know what those burning items are.
I have my own biases. I usually want to know about some gory innard of the game, like how a probe team mind control formula actually works. Somehow I do tend to find the wiki page about what I'm looking for.
Earlier this year I started playing again after a few years so I often needed a refresher. The wiki was both helpful in some ways and endlessly frustrating in others. There are some very good pages like Social Engineering (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Social_Engineering) and then there are fairly useless pages like Morale (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Morale). The latter is the first hit when you search for "Morale" but I was looking at a treatment of the combat morale system not MORALE. I've been trying to fix the parts that I found lacking. It tries too hard to directly mirror the Datalinks which doesn't work because the Datalinks pages were designed for the specific in game interface. Its strength is the albeit poorly organized technical deep dives.
There are two other wikis that dominate Google search results. One is a Civ-based wiki with SMAC content as an afterthought, but the other one is quite nice: https://alphacentauri.gamepedia.com/Alpha_Centauri_Wiki
The OpenSMACX project is a huge potential boon for the wiki because all of the messy backwards engineered guesswork can be replaced with solid data based on the actual game code. For example compare an old version of this (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Morale_(Advanced)) page with where I have it now.
Post by: Alpha Centauri Bear on October 02, 2020, 04:40:35 AM
but the other one is quite nice: https://alphacentauri.gamepedia.com/Alpha_Centauri_Wiki
This is an exceptionally good - all in one place - tabulated - info. I use it pretty often. But this is yet another resource that I have to search for though *google* and may never discover if unlucky. I usually don't advocate any structured information organization leaving it to self organizing. However, in this case the total amount of content is so huge and so difficult to find and so valuable for many (from newbies to modders) that I believe it would be a exceptionally great for users.
Another question is how many of them out there? I probably should ask about this on reddit.