Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 01:16:53 AM
Game 3 was a total drag. I got a bad start, then compounded it by doing foolish things with expensive prototypes. I never recovered. I could never advance against even my next door neighbors, the Free Drones. At a great distance, Lal's industrial output ruined Planet, forcing me to react to floods that destroyed part of my empire over and over again. His economic runaway made it impossible to build Secret Projects, he'd just get them all. Or the Data Angels would, same difference.
I don't know if "early militarism" is going to make a difference or not. Strategically, it may not. It may be that some faction always gets huge on the other side of the map, and that I won't be able to do anything about it. I'm going to play this game to see though. I'm determined not to have a "bad" start. If I manage to do that anyways somehow, I'll just start over.
I do wonder if the new faction placement algorithm is actually equitable to human players. I've started with an awful lot of factions breathing right down my neck, compared to what I'd expect to happen on a Huge map usually. Let's see if it happens again this game. At least now I know to make a lot of Scouts, and not to fool around with the expensive Synthmetal Armor prototyping.
Huge map, 30%..50% land mass with my large continent and oceans settings. Average settings, Transcend difficulty, default cost_factor. Random factions, I draw the Free Drones. Hive, Usurpers, Morganites, Peacekeepers, Cult of Planet, and University in the game. The Peacekeepers were damn scary last game. Their +2 GROWTH makes it really easy for them to pop boom early.
lousy land |
Looking at the radar echo, it looks like the Pholus Ridge was drawn over the "Freshwater Sea". Or they don't know how to put the label in the right place. This land sucks. I hope I'm actually near something good, as otherwise this is restart territory. I'm just gonna go ahead and found my capitol in this lousy, defenseless spot with no pods, rather than wander around looking for something better, because there's a good chance it all sucks. Better to get Scouts out to see what's around me. This start is really making me question the new faction placement algorithm. If I have to restart because of this, then I'm turning it off.
long distance radar echo |
The radar echo suggests that Mt. Planet and the Sunny Mesa are far to the west. Much farther than I'm going to be able to settle. Probably someone else is settling them. It is probably still good to press towards them and find out, so as to give my own empire more of a land claim. Assuming we're even peaceful to start with.
eastern radar echo |
To the east looks like the end of the land, then some ocean. Across the water, the Garland Crater. Probably nobody is to the east. If there is someone on land to the east, I'll probably restart the game.
The strategic situation duly considered, I send my Scout and remaining Colonist 1 square west.
Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 01:47:09 AM
what a precious gift |
MY 2103. The 1st pod I encounter, the little creep gives me a mindworm. Well it's not as bad as the 2 fungal blooms I got immediately upon starting last game! Still that's irritating. I deliberately used my Scout instead of my Colonist, as lately my "pop with Colonist, survive mindworm hit" trick has not been working so well. Not sure why, it worked in many games until recently. I didn't change any mindworm settings, so it's a mystery.
twin cities |
MY 2106. That may not look like the optimal spot for a 2nd city, but that river square is Flat terrain. Settling there boosts the minerals on the square. The other clear river squares are Rolling terrain, good for farmland. The site is in range of 3 pods which might turn into Monoliths or resources, and I'm in range of all the river squares for more energy.
Before popping any pods, I take the precaution of setting the production of both cities to Colony Pod. That way, I won't waste a pod completing a mere Scout. Colony pods never complete if the city only has 1 population. And sure enough, I pop a Monolith on the river and life is ok now.
MY 2107. I pop a Battle Ogre. I consider marching forwards with it, but their main armaments aren't that tough in my mod. I reduced R-Lasers to strength 3. It's very easy to get these things killed by mindworms, even with all the defensive buffs I gave them against psi attacks. 2 mindworm larvae hits will destroy one of these things. It's more valuable as an early police unit.
MY 2109. I pop a 2nd Monolith, justifying my base placement. I am remembering that Free Drone cities can go to size 3 before people get upset. However it's not usually a good idea to do that at the beginning of the game. More important to bang out colonists and make new cities.
MY 2119. I have already amassed 4 Artifacts. I haven't even founded my 3rd city.
boring holes |
MY 2121. I discover the Borehole Complex. This is not an advantage early on, as it's difficult to defend from marauding mindworms and spore launchers. Plus I popped 2 fungal towers next to it.
Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 02:11:05 AM
MY 2125. I design a Rover Former. I set my coastal base's production to that, in preparation for popping a pod at sea. My hope is that it will complete the expensive Speeder prototype. Nope, but I get a Unity Rover.
MY 2127. I rush all units that have only a few more minerals to go. My exploring units are stopped next to 3 pods.
MY 2128. I set all 4 of my cities to the Rover Former prototype. I'm hoping that 1 of these pods will complete the prototype. No luck, but I get my 6th Artifact.
fungus abounds |
MY 2129. The Pholus Ridge is mostly dry and covered in fungus. I don't know if I'd say this land completely sucks, but it's not good land. I really question the idea that Thinker mod "takes land quality into account" when giving out starting positions. Unless I've got this entire continent to myself.
Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 02:27:52 AM
!@!!! you game |
MY 2130. You gotta be !@!!! kidding me. My Transport with an Artifact and Unity Rover is sunk by a Sealurk. Like I'm doing so well, that I deserved that. What game designers can we shoot at dawn?
MY 2133. I can't even kill a freakin' spore launcher. I almost wonder if Thinker mod has changed the psi combat settings somehow.
Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 03:16:19 AM
western neighbor |
MY 2150. I discover the Hive. They're pretty far to the west. I've been deliberately avoiding expanding in the direction of the Borehole Cluster, because I think it survives better when it's in neutral territory rather than my own territory. I also can't much utilize it until I get Ecological Engineering anyways.
I consider avoiding talking to them. I gain an Artifact out that way, so I choose to bring it home and not make any contact.
Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 04:52:21 AM
MY 2159. I meet the Usurpers even farther to the west. We can't talk.
Oddly, Yang does not subvert my unit. So I kill 1 of his 2 probe teams.
I rush a Network Node. Next turn I'll cash for a tech and see if I get a Secret Project.
MY 2160. I gain Doctrine: Loyalty. Not particularly exciting as I don't want to go Fundamentalist right now. I rush another Network Node.
MY 2161. I gain Polymorphic Software, which merely offers Polymorphic Encryption and a Rover Probe Team prototype I've already completed. I rush another Network Node.
MY 2162. I gain Adaptive Doctrine, again not exciting. I rush another Network Node.
MY 2163. I gain Secrets of the Human Brain, which does nothing as it's already been discovered. I rush another Network Node. I guess I'm really isolated, having to do this. I could probably buy all these techs for 100 credits from somebody.
MY 2164. I learn the Citizens' Defense Force, so perhaps all that tech gaining wasn't worthless. I blow an Artifact to instantly learn a Plasma prototype. I cash another Artifact and learn Synthetic Fossil Fuels. In my mods it gives Fungicidal Tanks and Capitalist. Those are both actually useful. I switch to Capitalist, which gives +1 INDUSTRY +1 ECONOMY -3 PLANET. I switch 4 Rover Formers to Fungicidal Formers instead.
distant moneygrubber |
I meet Morgan. We sign a Treaty but he's uninterested in trading for my newly acquired techs. Why do I have the feeling that I just spent a lot of money on stuff that wasn't very valuable? But I've had the problem of hoarding Artifacts and never using them in previous games. I hadn't met Morgan before, so, I guess I did what looked reasonable at the time. It takes forever to make Foil probe teams and send them down to Yang.
Morgan sold me the comm frequency for Cha Dawn. He signs a Treaty and sells me the comm frequency for Lal. We sign a Treaty and trade some techs. Among them is Progenitor Psych, so now I can talk to Marr. We sign a Treaty. The whereabouts of the University remain unknown.
MY 2167. I start the Citizens' Defense Force. I have gained 2 more Artifacts and some money. I rush another Network Node.
MY 2168. I cash an Artifact and learn Applied Physics.
MY 2169. I burn an Artifact to instantly complete a Cloaked Laser Speeder prototype. I rush another Network Node.
MY 2170. I cash an Artifact and learn Industrial Base. That gives Recycling Tanks and Democratic. I stop work on the Citizens' Defense Force and start making a lot of Recycling Tanks.
My 2171. Most of my cities are only size 2, so I switch to Democratic. This wouldn't be a good idea for most factions, but I have extra starting happiness. Belatedly I realize that the Battle Ogre doesn't work as police now. I have 2 cities threatening to revolt. One of them I simply turn a worker into a medic. The other, I don't have enough food to do that. I bring in 2 Scouts and disband them, so that I can complete a Recycling Tank there. Next turn they'll revolt, but by then they'll have enough food.
MY 2172. I sign a Pact with the Morganites, but they won't trade their meager techs with me.
Lal sells me Zhakarov's comm frequency. Lal wants to trade his less valuable techs for mine, and I refuse.
I sell a comm frequency to Cha Dawn. He doesn't have any tech and doesn't like my Democracy. I won't be speaking to him for a long time. He's the worst faction in the game.
The Usurpers are 2nd worst. They don't have any tech to trade either.
Zhakarov manages to trade a Tier 2 tech for the same. We sign a Treaty. If I get some money together, I can reach tech parity with everyone. Actually I have some techs they don't.
likely center of world power |
My ally Morgan obtains a lot of maps. I can see everyone's lands except the Usurpers. I wonder why the Cult of Planet has done so badly? They only have 3 cities on the Garland Crater.
Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 05:47:26 AM
MY 2175. I gain the last of Lal's techs.
MY 2176. Yang offers a Truce and I decline. I have the military advantage and I want to claim the Borehole Cluster now.
fighting for boring holes |
MY 2182. I have a sinking feeling that my actions in the game don't matter. The AI factions simply get overwhelming production advantages. I didn't have a great start, but I didn't have a bad start either. I am bothered that despite all I spent on Network Nodes and all the Artifacts I've cashed, they don't give me an advantage. All they've bought me is technical parity, for now. Lal is working on the Citizens' Defense Force, it's not special to me. Popping Artifacts didn't gain me any kind of Secret Project advantage.
It could be that the Thinker AI has essentially implemented an "economic runaway timer". Where once it goes off, you'll never catch up. If I get into another one of these "can't make any headway" situations again, like it was with Domai on my border last game, I'll just quit. I'll call Thinker AI thoroughly tested.
Going to bed. Sleep is sounding more attractive than this.
Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 01:05:43 PM
Lal is sensitive to chemicals |
MY 2182. Upon waking, I think about how my life might be easier if I can use chemical weapons. A sufficient number of factions are down with it, but Lal isn't. He wanted a 1440 credit bribe to make it legal, and of course I don't have that kind of cash.
MY 2184. Morgan sells me Optical Computers, which in my mod gives the Planetary Datalinks. Oddly, it hasn't been built yet. I have 4 Artifacts, enough to get it done now, but I feel a little cheap about wasting part of an Artifact. I wait to get some more cash.
Lal trades me Ethical Calculus for a copy of my maps. In my mod that gives Hab Complex and the Planetary Transit System, which has already been built.
MY 2186. I use 3 Artifacts and 72 credits to rush the Planetary Datalinks.
Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 01:59:21 PM
distant Nexus |
MY 2192. I found the Manifold Nexus. It is unclaimed and I could colonize it.
MY 2200. I sign a Pact with the University. They give me a free tech because I'm a po boy. I research Doctrine: Air Power.
Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 03:30:18 PM
MY 2205. I rush the Human Genome Project with 1 Artifact and cash.
MY 2209. Cha Dawn declares war on me. He's super weak so I don't care.
MY 2213. I rush the Neural Amplifier with 1 Artifact and cash. I have 2 more Artifacts coming from the sea.
Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 07:34:58 PM
can I compete now |
MY 2216. I gain Industrial Automation from the Planetary Datalinks. Can I now get the Xenoempathy Dome done before others do?
Zhakarov is at war with Lal. I refuse to join in. Lal is far away and there's no strategic value in me dealing with him right now. I ask him to quit the war but he says Lal has to agree. I whine for tech and Zhakarov gives me Environmental Economics. Why did he do that? The Planetary Energy Grid isn't even built yet! Maybe the game thinks I truly and totally suck and need a freebie.
Post by: bvanevery on March 11, 2019, 11:58:51 PM
MY 2218. I complete a Gun Needlejet prototype. I have an Aerospace Complex in the city closest to Yang, near the Borehole Complex. He has hit me with so many probe teams that he actually destroyed one of my armored probe team units, but I have been doubling the guard so he has not gotten through. I've lacked units to simply kill his probe teams and I hope this plane helps in that regard. Planes are too expensive to build more of right now, so instead I work on a Perimeter Defense.
I think about switching to Wealth, but I'm in combat and really don't want -2 MORALE. I will wait until I get closer to completing the Planetary Energy Grid before making a decision.
MY 2219. I gain Planetary Networks from the Planetary Datalinks. In my mod that gives the Command Nexus. That's rather useful, and a lot cheaper than the Planetary Energy Grid. I switch the less complete of my 2 cities to the Command Nexus. My ships at sea manage to pop some energy, raising my total to 616 credits.
I send out my plane. I see that Yang is approaching my border city with a pile of Speeder units. Some armored, some with Impact weapons. They can crush my city if they make it in close, pretty much Game Over. I end my plane in a square to try to block them up. This is a case where I'm definitely getting spammed from too many directions. The distant powers are competing way too hard for Secret Projects, and Yang's breathing down my neck with real military force. I either succeed in the short term here, or this is the end of any Thinker mod testing.
I bribe a Scout that was preoccupying another city with a Plasma defender in it. I move the Plasma defender to the threatened city. I need the Perimeter Defense to get finished but it's only at 9 minerals. I bring another Scout to garrison the other city, that had been tied up preventing the enemy Scout from advancing. The Scout I bribed, I bring to my threatened city and disband it. This puts my minerals total over 10. I then rush the Perimeter Defense. If I survive this turn, then perhaps I have a defense. Bribing some of Yang's advancing units didn't look viable as many are double stacked, and the exposed ones aren't Impact weapons.
Due to the need for the Perimeter Defense, my cash has dropped to 546. It is not enough to complete the Command Nexus by itself. I cash an Artifact and rush the project. I have 82 credits remaining.
MY 2220. I complete the Command Nexus. I sell my 5 Command Centers. Yang destroys one of the Boreholes, emphasizing the complete pissiness of bothering with that stupid thing. How many units have run across it before, and didn't do it? I'd say a dozen. Whatever.
I've got a wall up, but he's got 6 units to attack with. I can't subvert any of them because they are stacked. At this point my only hope is that he's timid on attack. My mod does make base defenses stronger than the stock game, so maybe he has reason for concern. Still, this doesn't look good.
Yang has also got a Scout Rover coming in from some other random direction towards another city, indicating that I can't stop building Perimeter Defenses elsewhere. That one, I bribe for 26 credits.
Belatedly I realize I actually have 1-3-1 defenders in several other cities. I forgot I did all of that. That's the problem with games you don't finish in one sitting. I move a lot more Plasma defenders into the threatened base. I think with 5 Plasma units, he can't get through.
Of all the stupid things I haven't learned, I don't have Ecological Engineering for some reason. I need to put a supply crawler on top of a mine I recently finished. I buy it from Morgan for 125 credits. I have 91 credits remaining.
MY 2221. The completion of my first Impact Infantry causes Yang to scatter his forces away from my city. He leaves 2 probe teams exposed and I kill them with a Speeder. He's poised to hit me with 4 probe teams that I can't get to. I put 4 armored probe teams into the base to match his, which leaves me with not so much probe defense elsewhere. I fly my Gun Jet and see more stuff approaching. I block one of the Boreholes and kill another probe team.
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 02:05:04 AM
My Impact Infantry kills one of Yang's units and wounds another. I subvert an Impact Speeder that's sitting by itself for 70 credits. I bring it into my base and kill the 2nd unit and 2 probe teams that were with it. I rush a Perimeter Defense on a flanking city. I have 89 credits remaining. I'm not anywhere near getting the Planetary Energy Grid done. Morgan only needs 10 turns, assuming he uses no supply crawlers at all.
MY 2223. Zhakarov wants war with the Usurpers. I agree, as they're far away, weak, and no direct threat to me. I beg Zhakarov for tech and he gives me Nanominiaturization. Surprisingly, the Nano Factory hasn't been built yet. Either Zhakarov has a hole in his diplomatic head, or I'm getting special dispensation for being such a weakling. Am I being damned by false hope?
I don't understand why Yang's probe team killed one of my wounded armored probe teams. I had 3 other unwounded ones. It's as though my wounded unit became the designated defender for probe teams. That totally freakin' sucks man! Previously I had been rotating wounded probe teams out of the fight, to other cities. I will resume that bureaucratic exercise, since the AI seems to have an exploit with this.
I open up with my new Impact Artillery onto a stack of 1 Impact Speeder and 2 probe teams. I don't know why the Speeder didn't get wounded, but the probe teams get knocked down to 10% health. That will definitely cut down on the probe team assaults.
My 2 offensive units rotate out of the fight to a Monolith for healing. There's a gap between my 2 cities, and technically the AI could ride my rails to the middle of my empire and make some trouble for me. I send in a Unity Jet to block the way. I picked it up recently from a supply pod at sea. Now that I have 2 such jets, I'll be able to herd and corral Yang's troops better.
Another good use for a mere Gun Jet, is flying behind an enemy Speeder that wants to disengage, so that you can kill it with a mere Impact Infantry unit. Good tactic to use against armored Speeders who think they're entitled to park next to my cities.
cool clear water |
I finish my first Condenser. It makes some land that had dried up, a lot more reasonable. Unlike the AI I don't have a whole fleet of Formers to spam this stuff out. I've been under way too much pressure.
I'm actually building 2 colony pods because 2 of my cities were about to become unhappy if I didn't. I don't have time or funds to be building stuff to make anyone happy. Size 5 is pretty much my limit right now. That's with Democratic, no police, the Human Genome Project, my faction making 1 drone happy, and a 50-0-50 budget.
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 02:23:03 AM
somewhere safe |
I will put 2 cities on my northern peninsula. Away from Yang, and hopefully away from the depredations of wild mindworms. At least I've already popped all the sea pods out that way. I don't have roads built to these sites, so they will likely be disconnected for awhile. Maybe this would be a good reason to build air transport or a truck. I don't think air transport works because I think you have to be in a city to drop units off. A hovertank truck would work, although I haven't prototyped a hovertank yet.
My idea of colonizing the Manifold Nexus, really hasn't gone anywhere. Too stressed out at home.
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 03:03:21 AM
My Jets are doing a good job of bottlenecking Yang's front, forcing him into open ground in front of my city as a kill zone. I almost felt relaxed enough to start building supply crawlers in other cities, but decided I still need to replenish Plasma units. I've got enough offense to kill stuff though. I even have a small reserve.
A hovertank truck would also be useful for getting slow Artifacts home over land. But again, no prototype, and no money for a Skunkworks. My 3 supply crawlers will go into the Planetary Energy Grid when it's time to complete. Morgan only needs 7 turns so that needs to be Real Soon Now. I've got 1 Artifact coming home by boat next turn, so I think I've got it!
I'm realizing the 2 cities I want to settle are coastal. If I had kept a Cruiser Transport in my home waters, I could have settled them quickly by water. But they've been out making me money and Artifacts. Perhaps I should look at the Manifold Nexus as "relatively close by water".
an unprincipled tyrant |
MY 2226. I don't think I should switch to Wealth to cheapen my Secret Project costs. Yang's got lots of Veteran units and some Commandos scattered in there as well. He's Fundamentalist Socialist Survival. I just realized this is another instance of Thinker mod cheating / ignoring the factions' duly designated compulsions. Yang could chew me out for not being a Police State, while being Fundamentalist himself! Basically a big part of the diplomatic game is trashed, because factions are doing whatever Thinker mod wants them to do, not what they're supposed to do as AI players.
I send 3 supply crawlers to the Planetary Energy Grid, that used to be collecting minerals for the project. Surprisingly, I don't have to use any Artifacts at all to complete it, just cash.
I belatedly realize that I've had 1 independent Cruiser Transport and 2 independent Foil Transports sitting in port this whole time. I picked them up and sent them home a long time ago when popping pods. Like yesterday or the day before or something. Can't keep track of everything when Yang is pressuring me and it's taking multiple days to resolve a war. So, I could have colonized the peninsula much more quickly.
I start making a lot of supply crawlers. I now have confidence that Yang can't break through. I begin the Nano Factory in another city.
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 03:56:34 AM
Good time to use chemical weapons on Yang, if I wanted to piss him off forever and fully commit myself to doing nothing else for a long time. I worry that one of my "peaceful northern friends" will turn into an economic runaway meanwhile. I may need to deal with them, so getting implacably bogged down with Yang is not a good strategy. Also, previous experience has shown that if you start committing atrocities on a faction, you'd better finish the genocide before they get nukes. Or else it's your own cities that are going to be gone. A global flood can totally change your ability to completely wipe out an enemy, giving them room to breathe and get a nuke off.
I decide to send a ship with a colonist to the Manifold Nexus after all.
I start building a Skunkworks in my major port city. I don't like waiting around for prototypes.
I infiltrate Cha Dawn. They are the dead last faction, so unsurprisingly, they don't have any new tech.
Yang's nonsense |
Yang is held at bay. Midnight approaches and I'm going to bed.
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 12:16:04 PM
artifact time |
MY 2230. Morgan completes the Nano Factory. Zhakarov is going nuts on technology, but doesn't seem to have rapid ability to complete Secret Projects yet. I pop an Artifact to try to get another Secret Project to work on. I succeed, and it's one Zhakarov is working on. He has 2 projects that have a lot of work done on them, and 1 that doesn't, so it's to my advantage to knock him out of projects as fast as I can. However if I burn up Artifacts to do that, then I may not have enough techs to get enough Secret Projects to challenge him further. I have 3 Artifacts remaining, and I research a tech 5 years from now.
I decide to crawl a mine on behalf of the city that's now building the Pholus Mutagen, at the risk of 15 eco-damage. Other crawlers, I have them mine on behalf of my threatened city producing an Impact Needlejet, and my city producing a Skunkworks. The latter is only working a forest as I haven't completed my 4th mine. Driving a rail to my new peninsula city is more important right now.
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 12:36:26 PM
my kinda ally |
MY 2232. Zhakarov gifted me 2 Impact Penetrators! That will definitely help my cause against Yang. I've also claimed the Manifold Nexus, and I need something more than a Trance Scout to defend it from Cha Dawn.
I could finish the Pholus Mutagen this year by cashing supply crawlers, but I don't need to. I'd rather keep them working the minerals. I will be able to complete it with cash next turn.
I complete a 4th mine. I start to shift my Skunkworks production to it, but it seems the threshold for eco-damage is 13 minerals. I go back to working the forest, keeping my production at 11 minerals, and I assign the new mine to a different city.
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 01:24:52 PM
the flooding begins |
MY 2233. I hope this doesn't turn into some river shifting empire destroying region of death like last game. I am finally starting to do well, and my patience for being environmentally kicked to the curb is quite limited.
defense dept idea of efficient spending |
Dammit Zhakarov, would it kill you to pay attention to my SUPPORT before dropping your entire air force on me? Lost a plane to keep a Scout alive, sheesh.
With my new air force, I just murdered a stack of 9 probe teams. :bot: I'm so comfortable now, my "threatened" city starts working on a Network Node.
I am thinking of you Yang |
I rush the Pholus Mutagen with cash. I cash another Artifact to get a new tech. I'll take the Empath Guild! I switch to Thought Control as heck, it'll let me use police under a Democracy, and nobody in the game objects to this choice. My research is currently Artifact driven anyways. That said, I can't cash any more until I build more Network Nodes.
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 01:49:06 PM
the rout of Yang |
Yang steps forward with 4 artillery pieces in 2 stacks. One of them is on fungus, and I've got the fungal combat bonus from the Pholus Mutagen now. Or at least I should. Anyway I attack with my own artillery and fry one of his, so that's good. A Gun Jet finishes off the other artillery piece in that stack. Impact Needlejets take out the best defenders of the 2nd stack, then I open up on it with my 2nd artillery piece. I destroy his artillery and wound a Speeder remaining in the stack. My planes are beginning to physically push Yang back from whence he came.
Post by: Induktio on March 12, 2019, 02:03:13 PM
MY 2233. I hope this doesn't turn into some river shifting empire destroying region of death like last game. I am finally starting to do well, and my patience for being environmentally kicked to the curb is quite limited.
What kind of global warming setting are you playing these games with? Inevitably these games tend to have lots of sea level rise unless the climate effects are mitigated somehow. I suppose one could set the global warming variable to 1/2 but I'm not sure if that is enough to make a difference in long games. That might need more testing.
Also, what kind of labs output or population do these AI empires have? The northern factions look pretty large. What is their level of development in general?
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 02:34:06 PM
a patch of sun obscures your face |
MY 2235. Sunspots ended? I don't remember getting the memo on that. Well no Yang I'm not going to talk to you while I'm killing you.
He had the temerity to kill one of my armored probe team units by throwing his own probes at them over and over again. It seems even an Elite defender behind a wall, will be taken down by enough attacks by Hardened offenders. And again, other defensive probe teams of greater strength aren't utilized in the fighting. What a ripoff.
oh stick this in your fuse box |
Hey, begging Zhakarov for technology is still working really well! That puts any thoughts of switching to Wealth out of my mind. I don't want to mess up this gravy train.
I just realized that I probably acquired a Hovertank prototype a long time ago, from a predefined Fungicidal Slider Formers unit. I can start making Hovertank Formers and I don't have to wait for the Skunkworks to complete. These will be really useful for putting mines on rocky terrain.
I try begging Morgan for tech, but he's working on the Longevity Vaccine.
tempting offer |
I don't like giving up the tech to my "friend" Lal, but in my mod, Orbital Spaceflight also gives Missile Launcher. I didn't want so many things loaded up in 1 tech, but I didn't have any spare tech in the tree to make it separate. Thematically it makes some sense, although in other versions of my mod I've had it available for Doctrine: Air Power. Anyways, this is a reasonably good deal and will enable me to hurt Yang.
I also trade for his other techs without giving up the Empath Guild. Pulse armor will be particularly useful for advancing on Yang. In fact I think it's time to build a wall of ECM Impact Infantry and start advancing forwards! With a fusion reactor they're cost efficient.
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 03:14:12 PM
What kind of global warming setting are you playing these games with?
The default. I'm playing on Transcend. My understanding from the formula you talked about in another thread, is that I suffer a "5" for eco-damage whereas the AI factions only get a "3". My observation in several games, is that I'm severely penalized and could not possibly make the plethora of Boreholes and Condensers that the AI factions produce. I mean, I get penalized for having 12 or 13 minerals right now. Granted I'm Capitalist with the Manifold Nexus, so -2 PLANET.
Quote
Inevitably these games tend to have lots of sea level rise unless the climate effects are mitigated somehow. I suppose one could set the global warming variable to 1/2 but I'm not sure if that is enough to make a difference in long games. That might need more testing.
If I had the ability to change those formula numbers, I would change the AI from "3" to "5" on Thinker and Transcend difficulty, same as a human player gets. This would reflect the fact that your builder AI is now that good. If you have retained any of the decision making code from the stock binary, I believe the problem would be self-solving at that point. The AI would get fungal pops same as I do, and then the AI would start building climate mitigating facilities.
I saw this take place when suffering widespread flooding in Fission Armor mod. The biggest faction that I thought was doing the most eco-damage, the Free Drones, actually wasn't. He was Planned rather than Free Market and had +0 PLANET. He had built a lot of Tree Farms and so forth. A smaller faction, maybe the Morganites, was actually doing more eco-damage despite their size. Fission Armor made advanced factories available very early, which is how all the planet flooding got under way.
Quote
Also, what kind of labs output or population do these AI empires have? The northern factions look pretty large. What is their level of development in general?
The University, Peacekeepers, and Morganites are all gigantic. In my mod they are all Passive personalities, so that can explain the lack of wars. That said, I stopped a war between the Morganites and the Peacekeepers, because I didn't want to get drawn into it. Democratic gives +1 ECONOMY in my mod, so the Morganites and Peacekeepers don't have any reason to be enemies due to Politics. However the Peacekeepers have +2 GROWTH, so their pop-booming choices easily result in non-Capitalist behavior, pissing Morgan off. I bet they were Socialist at some point earlier, and now they're Green, presumably because they're happy with the number of size 16 cities they've got.
As of this turn, I've caught up with Lal on tech. I even have C6 Homo Superior / Empath Guild which he doesn't. Morgan has a little more than I do, B5 Bioengineering and D4 Cyberethics, which give similar benefits as the unmodded game.
Zhakarov's minerals |
Zhakarov on the other hand is a tech runaway. My mod is actually set up to allow a Discover oriented faction to do that, with all sorts of labs being available earlier than in the unmodded game. If you build labs upon labs, it can snowball. And he's definitely been building some Boreholes, as this city sample illustrates. Note that I get more eco-damage for having the temerity to produce 12 minerals. And I have the Pholus Mutagen. And he's straight Capitalist, -3 PLANET. Huge advantage to him.
Zhakarov has Applied Relativity (gives Industrial Lab, my version of Fusion Lab), Advanced Military Algorithms (gives Hunter-Seeker), Pre-Sentient Algorithms (gives Nanohospital), Unified Field Theory (gives Corporate Lab, my version of Quantum Lab), Digital Sentience, Bio-Engineering, Cyberethics, and Eudaimonia. His government is Democratic Socialist Knowledge Eudaimonic, which means he's got +4 GROWTH. Any city with a Children's Creche is pop booming. So far he has shown a lack of ability to finish his Secret Projects, but I don't expect that to last.
Surprisingly, looking at Zhakarov's expenditures, he has not built even a Research Hospital. Doesn't need to? None of those advanced labs actually matter to him. His Borehole input must be that good. He simply has 45 (!) Network Nodes.
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 04:35:42 PM
Yang finally destroys a 2nd borehole. The algorithm for prioritizing that is weird. I wonder if it has to do with being unable to move forwards, due to my obstructing planes? That may have been when the 1st borehole was destroyed as well. Well by the time I'm in control of the area, I bet I have Advanced Ecological Engineering and it wouldn't be that difficult to make new boreholes anyways.
I deliberately don't use as many Impact Needlejets as I could, preferring instead to have a similar number of air units available every turn. That way I can keep pushing Yang's units back towards his own land.
Why not beg Zhakarov for more tech? Maybe he'll give me Knowledge, which I could do for pretty much no penalty and it would make him happy. Awww, he doesn't want to speak with me.
Morganic maladaptivity |
MY 2238. Seas to rise 266 meters.
where everything will get ruined |
Domai Dome is at 86 meters so I start building a Pressure Dome. It's also sitting in the middle of a river system, so I predict this land is going to turn into a barren region of death. At least it's only 1 city instead of 3 like last game, and it's not on my invasion route.
I gain a number of techs from the Planetary Datalinks. I choose Knowledge, which lowers my POLICE to -1. I almost never nerve staple anyone anyways. I now have more tech than Morgan and Lal. Zhakarov as usual is the runaway. He doesn't give me a free tech, but he does trade E7 The Will To Power for C4 Single-Sided Surfaces. The Dream Twister isn't even built yet. That's been his pattern, he just doesn't care about preventing others from obtaining Secret Projects. Maybe he has no real need to care.
I'm still in 5th place, ahead of the truly pathetic factions, and I still can't do substantial productivity without eco-damage. And the global flooding has already begun. I don't really know if this game is winnable. It looks like Zhakarov will simply Transcend, and that I'll be so hassled with productivity, eco-damage, and flooding that I'll never be able to do anything about it. But it is too early to pronounce final judgment. I soldier on.
Post by: Induktio on March 12, 2019, 04:50:10 PM
If I had the ability to change those formula numbers, I would change the AI from "3" to "5" on Thinker and Transcend difficulty, same as a human player gets. This would reflect the fact that your builder AI is now that good. If you have retained any of the decision making code from the stock binary, I believe the problem would be self-solving at that point. The AI would get fungal pops same as I do, and then the AI would start building climate mitigating facilities.
I saw this take place when suffering widespread flooding in Fission Armor mod. The biggest faction that I thought was doing the most eco-damage, the Free Drones, actually wasn't. He was Planned rather than Free Market and had +0 PLANET. He had built a lot of Tree Farms and so forth. A smaller faction, maybe the Morganites, was actually doing more eco-damage despite their size. Fission Armor made advanced factories available very early, which is how all the planet flooding got under way.
That wasn't the number I was talking about though. The setting I was referring to is in alphax.txt:
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1, 1 ; Numerator/Denominator for frequency of global warming (1,2 would be "half" normal warming).
Adjusting that value is just one proposed solution if one doesn't like the sea level game mechanic. Modding the eco damage formula is not currently something that I'm looking at, I'm not even sure which functions exactly calculate that stuff.
Post by: bvanevery on March 12, 2019, 06:00:25 PM
I don't want to change everyone's eco-damage by some multiplier. The AI's relative eco-damage is way too low compared to mine, and a global multiplier will preserve that unfair ratio.
I want to change the AI's eco-damage, because it's way too low for them. I want us both to play the same hard game. Since it's now got all these special smarts to cough out boreholes, well it should have to pay real costs for those boreholes. Then we'll see how smart this algorithm really is. Like it may not actually turn out to be the One True Way To Win The Game. You can't very well have a rubbish 45 city, 45 Network Node ICS empire if that empire is underwater.
At least SMAC does seem to have some code in it to build facilities to reduce eco-damage. Either Civ II: Test of Time, Call To Power II, Civ III, or Freeciv did not. I can't remember which one it was, but if you left the AI to manage your city for you, it would pollute badly and destroy the planet.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 12:10:30 AM
boys! boys! |
MY 2240. I am allied with both Zhakarov and Morgan. I have no interest in trying to do something about a war between them, I'm fighting Yang. Zhakarov is frankly the most likely one to win the game at this point. I don't think it's even practical to get in a war with any of those northern people right now. I will try to make them have peace. I can't tell if that's in my best interest or not, but I really don't think it matters. I've seen these big factions beating each other up in other games, and they never do anything decisive. They just toss a few cities back and forth between them.
a grudging lender |
I'd rather spend my money on the Empath Guild, and I have a feeling the game may be over before he pays all that interest. But he does give me cool stuff, and I don't want him sore over my rebuff of his war. So I loan the money. Then I ask him to call off the war. He says Morgan has to agree, so I'll be chatting with him next.
Lal's comedic timing |
Groan. Not like I knew this when I loaned the money, nor do I think refusing the loan was a good idea. I do have a head start, so I imagine I can still pull this off.
Zhakarov's junk |
Once again Zhakarov hands over more than my city can support. 3 units vaporized from that.
16 eco damage my worm |
Tell me how 11 minerals do 16 eco-damage, in a size 6 city? I just allocated those minerals. I will have to reallocate them to some other city. I want the AI to experience this nonsense, and to die properly from all the boreholes it makes. If it can handle all the mindworms and floods that result, fine, it will have earned the right. Otherwise it's just cheating.
the road to the Hive |
I'm beginning to build a road and rail to the Hive. His forces that were trying to march towards me, have mostly been blown away. I don't know what kind of replacement power he has. I've noticed the Thinker AI often does a very bad job of garrisoning, keeping only a bare minimum skeleton of defense for the country. It could become a cakewalk once I make contact, but we shall see.
Lal's pile of minerals |
Good God, Lal only just started this turn and only needs 7 turns to complete, assuming no use of supply crawlers. I would need 26 turns in the city I'm building it in. I'm not even in the same league of production, due to the eco-damage constraint. No I don't want to go through fungal pops and mindworms to raise the amount of eco-damage I can do, I want to fight Yang. This is how eco-damage totally spams you, and not the AI.
My only hope is that the AI is typically not good at managing cash for Secret Projects. I outright buy most of my Secret Projects all the time. I have 559 credits and need 1108. I could probably finish this now with supply crawlers and maybe even an Artifact, but I'd rather wait. Lal hasn't finished his project yet. Even another turn is that much more money I'll have, and that much less minerals I'll have to lose from my mines.
A problem I'm going to have invading Yang, is I don't really have any ground troops. Only my air force is impressive. I'm doing all I can to stay in Secret Project races.
this guy is a jerk |
Morgan calls off his stupid war. I don't know what the guy's problem is. Zhakarov is Capitalist. Unless the game is lying, and it's really Zhakarov who started the war, over Morgan pursuing Wealth.
Let's beg Zhakarov for technology! I forgot to do that before. He blows me off. Busy with the Manifold Harmonics.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 12:46:01 AM
Lal's outrageous minerals |
MY 2241. Good God. 38 minerals! 10 eco-damage! Meanwhile, 13 minerals gives me 15 eco-damage. Ok, granted, he's Green with +2 PLANET. I'm Capitalist with the Manifold Nexus, so -2 PLANET. It's still a crock though. If I were to design this game from scratch, I'd make it so that a Thermal Borehole can never, ever be mitigated by going Green. It's the futuristic equivalent of going on and on about "Clean Coal" today. There's no such thing. It's complete BS.
So I have to rush now. Well, let's move everything else first, in case I get more cash somehow. I don't. It takes several supply crawlers but I get it done. I've got 37 credits remaining.
I can't believe Lal just had the nerve to beg me for The Will To Power, when he was trying to build The Empath Guild right out from under me. Research it yourself, dorkface. Maybe I can still get the Dream Twister if I delay any offensive against Yang and keep cranking out fusion speeder supplies non-stop. But this is getting old.
Zhakarov keeps on dumping units on my puny Manifold Nexus city. I disbanded an Impact Needlejet to help build a Children's Creche. I really need an "instantly get more minerals" facility.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 12:59:42 AM
you sank my mineralship! |
There used to be a minerals special on this ocean shelf square. Now it's an ocean square and the minerals are gone.
I begin the Dream Twister.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 01:13:38 AM
I'd like to twist something else of Lal's |
MY 2243. Lal seems to be passing into "instant get everything" mode. With 3 northern powers doing that sort of thing, I wonder how it will all end? I wonder if this is what it's like to be a minor "ally" of the United States.
when 5 equals 1 |
I'm guessing I get next turn to complete this, then that's it. He's completing the Cloudbase Academy this turn. He's actually got 2 copies of it.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 01:47:05 AM
tooth pull tech |
MY 2244. Finally I learn Advanced Ecological Engineering from the Planetary Datalinks. I've been Build focused since forever, trying to get to this, for not particularly good reasons anymore. I'm not sure why 3 other factions suddenly have it, as they didn't before, but here it is. I seem to recall quitting the last game not very long after obtaining this. There's something about it that really rubs in the pointlessness of this whole exercise. Oh, I remember what it is. The feeling that you have better technology, that you can't afford to build. You're too innundated to allocate minerals, and too cash strapped to upgrade.
I'm not sure if I've passed into complete pointlessness yet, as I don't actually know how this game would end, or if it's winnable. But the game has certainly gotten old, all this waiting around to very gradually beat up Yang, while being hamstrung in anything else I do. I'm definitely feeling serious mouseclick fatigue, and at a minimum, I may soon call it a night. Feeling that way at 9:30 PM is rather early by my standards, and is a sign of great boredom.
kill them aliens |
I think it's kind of cool that Morgan finally did something militarily useful. Not so much useful to me, as I've been nominally at war with the Usurpers for a long time, without a shot fired between us. I did it to keep someone else happy, I guess Morgan. Yeah Morgan, go fight something! ;morganercise :stickpoke:
I think some of Yang's diffusion of strength, is he decided to fight the Usurpers, or vice versa. It's my job to make Yang pay dearly for that.
quicksand |
Oh, crap. I just built my link road on terrain that's 1 meter above sea level. That's Everglades flat! Did you know that different species manifest in altitudes of only 1 inch difference? If my Formers die then they die, but I need to get my real troops onto higher ground.
I actually complete the Dream Twister without needing to take supply crawlers off of my mines. I have 2 Artifacts to try to gain another Secret Project with. However I only have 1 unlinked Network Node. I have 1 started on the mainland with 0 minerals in it, and I have 1 at the Manifold Nexus that's half completed. I put 1 Artifact on a Cruiser Transport and start sailing for the Nexus. I also start on a spare copy of the Dream Twister, so that if I get another Secret Project, I'm not starting from scratch.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 02:25:37 AM
Yang has got no defense |
MY 2245. This is the kind of flaw that I have previously observed of Thinker's AI. There's nothing to stop me from taking this base this turn. Additionally, the AI keeps building facilities when base is imminently threatened with capture, instead of at least making a last ditch effort to throw up a garrison unit. It's out of balance. I know Yang has been fighting Marr, but that was Yang's choice, not mine. Nobody told him to commit lots of troops to invading Marr, when he's clearly being invaded by me.
I can't believe it. Sensor Arrays and Perimeter Defense enable a Commando Scout defender to take out a Disciplined Impact Needlejet. And I thought I didn't need to go through the formality of the usual base defense stripping or artillery shelling drills. Well now I know. Now I send a Veteran against a Hardened. That goes more like you'd expect. My other Disciplined can surely take out a 70% wounded Commando.
I steal Yang's map using one of the old, slow, armored probe teams, just to have a complete picture of how he may have spread. There's not much to tell, I pretty much had the picture. I walk in with my ECM unit, forgetting to send my wounded unit it. Yang wants to talk and I cut him off. I can probably use the land and body count of his empire.
I lose a Disciplined Gun Jet to a Veteran Former. It wasn't even near a Sensor Array. Well, those Gun Jets sure helped my cause once upon a time.
I sent a Fungicidal Former onto some fungus near what's left of the Borehole Complex, to cut a better path than the 1 meter above sea level path I've got. I stirred up a mindworm. I discovered that my +50% PSI offense from the Dream Twister, more than makes up for my -20% due to -2 PLANET. It's like having the offensive firepower of +3 PLANET. Brainpower?
I am badly in need of garrison units, and Formers. And Secret Project advantages. I guess you can say, I'm badly in need. Even the Hive is considered better than I am, although positionally, I think I'm better. I have many Secret Projects and he has none.
Morgan sells me Eudaimonia for 275 credits. I have 31 credits left. Now I could pop boom, but I'd have to rearrange stuff. I trade it to Lal for his Silksteel Alloys. I don't like that, but I'm trying to position myself for another Secret Project and need all the techs I can get.
Zhakarov the tech trader |
Zhakarov is like a used rug salesman. Large tech, small tech, any tech will do! We got your tech right here. I get a Temple of Planet, and for the 1st time ever, revealing the map is actually useful because I've never launched a satellite. Now I can see how awful and pockmarked everyone's land is.
sink it! sink it! |
Zhakarov also gives me Unified Field Theory before signing off, because I'm po. Meanwhile he has 47 Network Nodes, the Network Backbone, and has built one Industrial Lab. One!
I decide I need garrison units to take over Yang. I will stop making Fusion Speeder Supplies and start making ECM Impact Infantry. Maybe some Super Formers while I'm at it, although I think my existing fleet is going to mostly build a rail. I'm going to shift my government too, but I don't have the money to do it this turn. I'm hoping by the time I'm ready to worry about Secret Projects again, Zhakarov might give me another tech.
MY 2246. I go Fundamentalist. I lose money but gain morale and police. I don't think I need to care about research anymore. Zhakarov will probably give me anything I'm going to get.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 03:27:36 AM
Lal thinks he's God giving floods |
MY 2247. Seas to rise 266 meters. I switch to Socialist in preparation for a pop boom. My PLANET rating is now +1. With the Dream Twister, that should give me a +60% PSI attack. Guess I should make some mindworms!
can I get it done |
MY 2248. I get this from the Planetary Datalinks. We'll see! Everyone is building it, but Lal only needs 5 turns. I switch to Eudaimonic, triggering a pop boom in cities with a Children's Creche. Belatedly I realize I'm going to need a lot of Hab Complexes. One of my core cities becomes unhappy, so I switch my budget to 50-10-40. I haven't built a single Hologram Theater this whole game, that's how pressured my situation has been.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 03:57:01 AM
Lal is cheating |
MY 2249. 4 turns until Lal completes. I might get it done before then. Lal is doing 59 eco-damage in this city alone. Why is it not surrounded by fungus and big stacks of mindworms? That's what would happen if I had a city with that kind of eco-damage. And I'm the one with the Pholus Mutagen!
Yang is defenseless. I'm limited only by the speed of my advancing infantry, my rails, and my willingness to produce garrison units. I'm building Hab Complexes in most cities now.
It approaches midnight and I'm going to bed. Die tomorrow, Yang!
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 03:03:05 PM
Morganites invade the Hive |
MY 2250. The Morganites took 4 Hive bases this turn, emphasizing the puniness and defenselessness of the Hive. I'm not sure what method they used. Every base was taken with a Drop unit, but I'm not seeing where those units came from. Morgan doesn't have orbital drop capability yet. Nobody does; we're all racing to complete the Space Elevator. The other method is Graviton Theory and nobody's got that yet.
before the heavy Morganite invasion |
The Hive had 3 bases wide open before they were invaded. I only see 1 air drop unit within 8 squares of these bases though. I suppose the AI could have dropped a unit and walked 3 squares into the bases, as the Hive has very little in the way of air defense. Even with that though, I'm not seeing where they coughed up the units from.
This smells like cheating. The AI is not known for using sea units to subvert coastal land bases, and Yang didn't have any drop units to subvert. I don't think drop units can launch from a ship at sea, unless they were on a Carrier, and I've never seen the AI build a Carrier. Checking Morgan's unit inventory, I only see 3 Fusion Destroyer Transports.
I am highly suspicious that the AI has awarded itself orbital drop capability prematurely. Working on the Space Elevator doesn't give you orbital drop! I am marking this as a bug, because coming up with 4 more drop units spread over a wide area deep within enemy territory is highly implausible. A further question is whether this is a generic bug or a Thinker mod bug.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 03:41:17 PM
yet more flooding |
MY 2251. Sea levels to rise to 466 meters. I do a flooding check. Of course city I'm building the Space Elevator in is threatened, although it won't be immediate. Lal needs 2 turns to complete. This would be a good time to rush it, but I will wait until the end of my turn to see what I can do.
Once again lost a Disciplined Impact Needlejet to a mere Hardened Scout defender. Whatever. Then I chose to lose a Gun Jet to that same wounded unit. Whatever! At last a wounded Hardened Impact Needlejet kills it.
Even taking out a Scout on open ground wounds one of my planes pretty badly. 8 to 3 odds, what's up with that? Forest and a Sensor Array I suppose. I'm not doing the usual "destroy the Sensor Arrays" exercise, as I can actually kill the puny Scout defenders. If the Hive had a more normal defense, I'd be slogging a lot more. As is, there is an empty base right next to my infantry, that I simply didn't have a Speeder unit to reach.
I strip the supply crawlers that were only working forests and rush the Space Elevator. I have 84 credits remaining.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 04:09:33 PM
With the Space Elevator completed I am now orbital drop capable. I plan to remake my capitol in that city, as it's a little closer to the territory I've conquered from Yang.
cheater cheater pumpkin eater |
Morgan's cheating invasion of Hive territory didn't give me any time to stall. Due to a Synthmetal defender showing up, I needed to move next to one of his bases to dismantle a Sensor Array. When we made contact he gave me a "talking to". Well I'm not switching my Socialist ways any time soon, Morgan. I've got a whole game's worth of population catch-up to implement.
I beg Zhakarov for tech. He gives me N-Space Compression. This pretty much justifies my social engineering choices. Zhakarov gives me tech faster than I could ever hope to research it.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 05:00:09 PM
MY 2254. I've run out of garrison troops. Priority is going to making pop boom cities happy.
Got other things to go do in real life.
Post by: bvanevery on March 13, 2019, 09:08:35 PM
growing with the big boys |
MY 2256. If only I can get the food. And the happiness. I think this late in the game, in some kind of giant future city races, I probably get killed.
Lal is drowning us |
766 meters. Worse, the Manifold Nexus is sinking. I need to shore it up before it does. My experience is once it's underwater, it's broken forever. You can't raise it out of the water again to get it working.
I beg Zhakarov for tech. He gives me Biomachinery. He already built Clinical Immortality. I wouldn't have the resources to build it anyways. I'm playing catch-up on population growth. At least no one is building Hab Domes yet.
slowing the flood |
I try to give myself more time to deal with the Manifold Nexus sinking. It outweighs other calculations. I don't think it will stop the flooding anyways. Previous experience is it may not even slow it down all that much.
Post by: bvanevery on March 15, 2019, 08:44:40 PM
Well well, now we have a new develop build (version 20190314) available from the downloads (https://github.com/induktio/thinker). This update is focused on the build priorities and terraforming:
* Thinker now supports formers based on all triads. Design_units will also create gravship formers when the techs are available.
* Formers will build less roads and try to avoid placing them on forest tiles when they're not needed.
* Other smaller tweaks to former priorities.
* Military unit production priority is now notably increased from previous amounts.
* Whenever AI loses bases to conquest, this also triggers an extra priority to devote nearly all available resources to building new units.
* During peacetime these modifiers will have a much lesser effect, so economy building should still work.
* Small changes to social_ai to prefer priority category models more often. But social priority/opposition effect values (e.g. PLANET) have no effect because of the engine, and are still ignored.
It needs some more testing to determine if the military buildup is enough now. The next step would probably be to implement credit rushing for production items, currently it does not do that. It would be pretty powerful, since now rushing is basically a human exploit.
This update doesn't change anything with the base spacing though. For example the new road building method would need yet more changes if the spacing was changed from current values.
It has been 2 days since I've been able to put any concentration into this game. My mind and heart simply aren't into it anymore. I'm more interested in whether "less roads" and "more military units" makes a big difference to AI faction conquerability. I don't think it's fair or interesting to test that starting late game, by switching the older .exe for the newer one. I think this game is likely to end with one of the AIs winning, unless I pull out some last minute heroics that fully exploit the weakness of its military defense. If that's going away, there's really no point in knowing whether it would go one way or the other.
So, I will start a new game. I will be paying special attention to whether I get a good, ok, or bad start in terms of land quality. I thought this start was so-so. My previous game was really bad with fungus everywhere and 2 enemies breathing down my neck immediately. Not what I'd usually expect out of a Huge map game, and it makes me wonder about the new placement algorithm.
I will try to "spread more" because I seem to get punished severely if I don't. I am wondering whether my spreading is meaningful in the face of the AI faction advantages though. Both the buffs for Transcend, and not paying any meaningful eco-damage penalties.