Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 03:25:25 PM
February development build |
I've been testing Thinker mod when combined with my own SMACX AI Growth mod. I play on Huge maps with lots of land for AIs to grow in, which should very much help the AI. In my 1st attempt I played the Data Angels. I determined that any immediate neighbor, is pretty much helpless. I kicked the living snot out of both the Believers and the Hive. In the early game I think the AI spends too much time building forests and roads, and not enough on military conquest. Also the terrain that the AI produces by terraforming, is easy to invade because it has a road on every single square.
My unresolved question was whether I could overcome a distant AI faction. Morgan went pretty nuts in that game, sitting on the Monsoon Jungle. He had all these enormous cities. Despite that, his tech really didn't get that much farther ahead of mine. A similar story with the University. My ally the Free Drones was between them and fighting both of them. He was getting beaten on, but still holding in there. The later game was looking like it would be a 3 way struggle between us. I was building a long rail to reinforce the Free Drones and bring the fight directly to the Morganites and the University.
I quit that game because I felt like I'd made a bad decision to stay with Power when I wasn't actually fighting Yang anymore. I think it let the AI factions grow unnecessarily. I won't make that mistake this game. I believe I could have won that last game, but I think I had made it unnecessarily tedious for me to do, which is why I quit. If I'm going to mop up a bunch of cities, I'd rather do it on a clean slate, with a few fewer to mop up.
my Free Drones |
Huge map, 30%..50% land mass. My world generator settings ensure no pathologies like 1x1 island starts. It will be large continents and large oceans. Average settings, Transcend difficulty, default cost_factor for Thinker mod. Random factions. I draw the Free Drones. Caretakers, Usurpers, Morganites, Pirates, Hive, and Cyborgs are also in the game.
My Free Drones are a bit different from the stock game as well. Instead of being prohibited from using Green, they're prohibited from using Police State. My mod has renamed EFFICIENCY to JUSTICE, and the Free Drones have the highest starting JUSTICE of the game, +2. They only get +1 INDUSTRY. No other faction gets an INDUSTRY bonus at all.
Compared to last game, I will not get free techs that are known to 3 factions. It will be interesting to see if it's any harder without that boost. I will have inevitable political conflict with the Hive, but last game showed they were pretty easy to destroy, at least if you start near them. I expect the Morganites and the Pirates to have scary economies, don't know about their militaries. The Alien factions have been rather random as to how well they do. I've seen them dominate, I've seen them do poorly. They also tend to peter out on research compared to other factions, as they love to choose Fundamentalist warmongering. Cyborgs can do well or not so well. I believe this game will be determined by how I deal with the Morganites and the Pirates.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 03:49:19 PM
unregistered hovertank |
WTH? I've got a Hovertank instead of the usual Scout. It isn't a starting unit for anyone in my mod, nor do I have it as a predefined unit in alphax.txt. Also, the units that are in the square with the cursor on it, aren't listed at the bottom of the display. Saving this game for diagnosis. I'll need to restart.
Empath Scout Rover for Cyborgs |
I quit the game entirely. I restart SMAC. I load the saved game. I crank up the Scenario Editor to see what's going on with other factions. The Alien factions haven't been placed yet. The Pirates have normal units, but the other factions do not. Even weirder is they have different units than I do.
Empath Scout Tank for Hive and Morganites |
I use the Scenario Editor's "Eliminate Faction..." menu to determine the order of the factions. I will duplicate these factions and this order in a new game, and see if I get the same problem.
faction order as given by Eliminate Faction |
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 04:25:08 PM
factions and order identical |
I quit the game entirely. I cold start the game. I set up my usual kind of game with factions in the specified order: Drones, Consciousness, Morganites, Caretakers, Usurpers, Hive, Pirates.
no weirdness this time |
Normal starting units. One thing I notice differently this time, is the "escape pod landing on Planet" animation plays correctly. In the buggy game, it got skipped.
Well, maybe it was a fluke. If it ever happens again, I'll duly report it.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 04:49:29 PM
a good start |
MY 2103. I even got some nutrients to go with them.
suspicious forest |
MY 2127. I've had a lot of fungal barriers around me, limiting my city sites. Fortunately I can go to size 3 before people become unhappy. It's still better to spread though, so I'm making some sea colonies. Out west is a cluster of 3 nutrients. 2 of them I popped myself, but not the southwest most one. I wonder if I have a neighbor. I'm worried enough about it, that I will stop exploring that way, lest I establish a border prematurely.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 05:09:26 PM
I do not love you |
MY 2129. Well I've got a neighbor, although I don't know which direction he came from. I switch to Discover, Conquer focus as that should get me Information Networks the fastest. In my mod, that's what gives you the probe module.
go away |
MY 2138. The Usurper ominously waited around on the forest north of my city for a long time. I eventually stocked it with Scouts from Free Drone Central. Now it has decided to move off. Those extra Scout units are escorting him off the property.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 05:26:54 PM
the fungus is crawling with them |
MY 2142. When I try to move my Colony Pod west, a Usurper unit is revealed 2 squares distant. That means some other invisible unit is right next to me. I retreat. In my mod the Aliens start the game with Cloak technology and make Cloaked Scouts at the beginning, so that's probably what it is. I start making a lot more Scouts as it's all I've got.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 05:38:06 PM
friend for now |
MY 2143. I find the Hive to the south, separated by a Gulf that will delay adjacency for a bit. We sign a Treaty and I buy Monopole Magnets and High Energy Chemistry from him. Synthmetal Armor will be very helpful dealing with these Usurper Scout interlopers. Prototypes cost 3X in my mod, so getting a Synthmetal prototype done is no small matter. I could pop an Artifact, but it would be better if I learned Speeders and made a Synthmetal Skirmisher, getting 2 needs done with 1 unit. I change all my Scout production to Formers so that I can build a rail. I think I have enough Scouts as is to fend off the Usurpers if they make a move.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 06:09:59 PM
nothing if not predictable |
MY 2151. He makes his move. My losses aren't too bad, a Scout and a Former. I kill one of his wounded Scouts. My newly minted Scout Skirmisher moves forwards to protect my big pile of minerals. I can now see his border and he's got at least 2 cities close to mine. I guess Thinker mod's starting placement algorithm is a bit different, as this isn't the 1st time I've gotten a fairly close start to someone on a Huge map. Well, I wanted a military test, and I've got it! We'll see if no free techs and an enemy with +1 MORALE who can do directed research, really equals cakewalk.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 06:37:12 PM
MY 2155. I gain the commlink frequency for the Cyborgs. We sign a Treaty and I gain Polymorphic Software. This provides the rover based Probe Team as a predefined unit, so now I don't have to prototype any probe teams. I start making a bunch.
Usurper city spam |
Yang obtained a map of Usurper territory. I am facing... 18 Usurper cities. I've seen the same thing in several test games. The Aliens will have 18 cities when other factions have 12, indicating a strict correspondence to starting with 3 colonists instead of 2. Getting that full spread must be contingent upon having land good enough to do so. In this case, they got it, and I definitely didn't. I have 4 cities adjacent on land, 2 on water, and 1 on land separated by a water channel. That's what happens when you're 8-balled behind other factions and fungus is in your way.
Maybe these cities will turn out to be weak and I'll just kill them.
By comparison, Yang has only got 5 cities. I wonder what his problem was. Maybe he got 1 of his 2 original colonists killed.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 06:56:59 PM
Pirates rule the waves |
MY 2159. Someone calls an election, probably Svensgaard, and he gains the Governorship. Now I get to see what's up with Morgan. We sign a Treaty, I get a map, and I buy some techs. I get more techs from the Cyborgs. I get a Morganic map from the Hive. It won't shock me if I'm now at tech parity with the Usurpers. We'll see next turn, provided he doesn't have a unit lurking on some fungus to kill my probe team.
distant approach to the Pirates |
Morganites near by water |
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 08:14:19 PM
MY 2161. Surprisingly, the Usurper probe team does not try to subvert any of my Scouts. Maybe they're poor. I kill it. I sent my own 2 probe teams towards a fungus bound rock within 2 squares of a Usurper city. I have a Scout sitting on that rock already, so they should all be able to stage from there safely. I gain a Unity Jet and a Battle Ogre from sea pods. The Unity Jet will be particularly useful in pushing a war forwards.
MY 2162. I research Applied Physics. This gives me Lasers, which in my mod are strength 3. I now have the means to wreck the Usurpers, if only I can get the stuff produced. The Usurper Cloaked Scout pillages the forest it was sitting on, leaving it vulnerable to the 2 Scouts I had next to it. I kill it.
MY 2163. I infiltrate the Usurpers. They also have Lasers but no new techs. They're starting to build Perimeter Defenses but it's taking them a long time. They don't presently have any defense, just Scouts everywhere. If I can hit them quickly with Laser Speeders it may devastate them. I cash my 2nd Artifact to get the prototype done immediately.
MY 2166. I destroy the 1st Usurper city.
MY 2167. Using my Unity Jet I walk 2 Scouts around a Usurper city and destroy both Sensor Arrays protecting it. I have 3 fresh Laser Speeders coming, and 2 Scouts standing next to the threatened city as is. I might be able to take it even without the Speeders. It occurs to me that High Energy Chemistry made me Nerve Gas capable, but I actually need more cities, even if the conquered people complain a lot. As long as I'm only executing Scout defenders, I'll keep the plain Lasers coming. If his defenses strengthen up, I'll pull out the nerve gas. I've rarely seen the Aliens surrender anyways.
I've also infiltrated the Morganites, and signed a Pact with them. My trade with my allies the Cyborgs has me in pretty good shape technologically, much better than the Usurpers. I'm not really missing the Data Angels' ability to get techs that 3 factions already have.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 08:40:27 PM
Caretaker Nexus |
MY 2169. The 2nd and 3rd Usurper cities are destroyed. I discover that the Caretakers are in possession of the Manifold Nexus.
MY 2170. The Pirates meet my Foil Probe Team at sea with a Synthmetal Skimship. They open communications. If we stay at war, I'll lose that team, which I'd rather use to infiltrate the Pirates. Fighting the Pirates is currently of no strategic value to me, so we sign a Treaty. I get to keep my team. A Pirate Scout wandering around in my home territory, starts to wander off towards the Usurpers I hope.
Yang terminates our Pact. I decide to move westwards rather than southwards against the Usurpers. The southwards cities are closer to the Hive. They might prevent Yang's expansion that way, and Yang might get in a war with them.
MY 2171. Marr finally decides to put up a defense with a couple of armored Laser Speeders. I might have to go after more isolated cities instead of the straight westward thrust. I retreat my forces from his strong point. Overrunning stuff to the south is better than losing units.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 09:06:19 PM
herding the Usurpers |
MY 2173. Marr is coming with more armored units than I thought. 2 are threatening my western flank. I block them with my Unit Jet, hoping to drive them into that fungal tower. My Scout picket is probably a goner, can't be helped. A probe team is advancing with that armored unit. I've got 3 Speeders ready to counterstrike, which might be enough, although against armor maybe I'll take a loss. They definitely won't get through.
southern offensive |
I vaporize 2 armored Speeders and a probe team. I forgot that one of my Speeders was only a Scout and I lose it. Another Speeder dies attacking the rock fungal emplaced armored speeders. At least one of those is now badly wounded. The other can make trouble for me on my rail. I block its movement with my own armored skirmisher. His nearest southern city should fall trivially next turn, defended only by a Scout. I will also steal a tech.
I buy Synthetic Fossil Fuels from Svensgaard for 150 credits. It gives Fungicidal Tanks and Capitalist economy. I switch to Capitalist as in my mod it gives +1 ECONOMY, +1 INDUSTRY, and -3 PLANET. It will help my war effort as long as I don't run afoul of mindworms.
my military industrial complex |
MY 2175. I steal Doctrine: Loyalty from the Usurpers. It gives Fundamentalist. In my mod that has some advantages. Also by choosing that, I get rid of the -1 GROWTH penalty from Frontier society. I'll play catch-up with techs later. Right now it's time to put Marr down.
I take the base trivially. In the north I wipe out all of Marr's units that were threatening me. He has a badly wounded armored unit limping away.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 10:46:13 PM
Marr's reduced empire |
MY 2186. I laid waste to several of Marr's cities in the south. I find myself unwilling to advance further. His resistance to the west is stiff, and 1 plane is not enough to safely walk around units to remove Sensor Arrays. Several counterattacks there destroyed my units. It is more profitable to simply let him come to me in that direction, so that I can eliminate him in the open.
In the south, I nosed forwards with Speeders but they were counterattacked. I find myself holding my forces in reserve. My southernmost city tends to get probe teams coming towards it, but they end their movement badly and get killed. I do have an armored probe team defending the base but it never actually gets attacked.
I need armor to advance further. I actually have Plasma armor, but it's not prototyped yet. I even have Impact weapons, but I haven't prototyped those yet either, and I lack productivity to really bang them out in any case. I've been going through a round of Children's Creches and Recycling Tanks, not new units. I hope that raises my productivity enough that I can make more effective war.
I have reduced Marr's apparent city count to 16. I presumed he's spawned more cities since I first got his map. I believe I've destroyed about 6 cities and captured 1. Myself, I only have 5 cities on adjacent land, with a rail to my southernmost captured city about to be completed. I have 6 sea bases and 1 disconnected land base, for a total of 12 cities. And geographically, I'm in a pretty comfortable position for destroying the Usurpers.
Post by: bvanevery on March 08, 2019, 11:42:53 PM
MY 2189. Morgan asks for war with Yang. I comply. This causes Svensgaard to delcare war on me! I ask Morgan to declare war on Svensgaard. He complies. Well, let's see if the 2 economic superpowers of the game will cancel each other out or not. There's a lot of water in the way, so they may not.
not a good position |
Marr has decided to focus units on my southernmost city that I took from him. Whenever I attack, he has favorable terrain and I lose a unit. I will try letting him attack me instead. I need to build another Sensor Array, as he's standing on the existing one and I don't expect it to last. If he pillages the forest in that square, it will become much easier to kill him. I move 3 Synthmetal Skirmishers into this city for defense.
MY 2190. I am quite surprised when a Hardened probe team destroys my Synthmetal armored Hardened probe team. Fortunately he left his 2 teams standing by themselves. The 1st I destroy from my base. The 2nd I use an Elite Speeder to pop in and out of my base. He pillaged the Sensor Array but not the forest in front of my base, so I do not attack. I've built a new Sensor Array behind my base. I hope no more probe teams are inbound as I don't have a defense against them. I do have a Children's Creche which will make the base more expensive to take over. He has 124 credits in reserve, and I have 136, so he doesn't have any advantage over me for that part of the subversion formula.
I don't feel secure with 3 enemies surrounding me. I call up the Cyborgs for the fight. They're already at war with Yang. I need them at war with the Pirates too, as I don't want Svensgaard focusing on me. They agree to the war.
Post by: bvanevery on March 09, 2019, 12:03:20 AM
jet interference |
My obstruction worked. I'm able to retreat my wounded Speeder and reinforce the base with a Plasma unit. A few more turns and all of my bases will be secured with Plasma. That just leaves the ongoing probe team threats. I stall a couple of advancing armored units with my Unity Jet.
Pirate caution |
The Pirates have left a coastal city open. I'm approaching with a Scout Rover on a Transport. I've seen no ships in the area. If I take the base, maybe he'll sign a Truce. Or get pushed closer to doing it. I've got a lot of Foil Probe Teams in progress but they're nowhere near ready. I'd be happy to have him out of the war, as I know I can handle Marr and Yang myself.
Post by: bvanevery on March 09, 2019, 12:43:15 AM
your sea base is trash |
MY 2196. I take an empty Hive sea base and knock him out of the war. I even get him to sign a Treaty, and tell him to stop fighting Morgan. I make the same request about the Cyborgs, but he says they need to be convinced. I won't bother.
Pirate weaklings |
I come very close to taking a Pirate base, due to the unexpected efficacy of an artillery duel with a wounded Pirate ship. I didn't think my strength 1 Gun was good enough for anything, but for an artillery duel, it was. Unfortunately his Transport resists the attack from my other wimpy ship, just barely. I have 2 more wimpy ships coming, but they won't get there in time.
Post by: bvanevery on March 09, 2019, 02:13:19 AM
MY 2200. The Morganites are at war with the Caretakers. I'm not sure how long they've been at it, but this turn Morgan took a Caretaker sea base. The Caretakers land a Cloaked Scout next to one of my bases and want to trade tech. I refuse. Then they declare war on me. Ok, fine, I really don't think you're going to give me much of a problem at your distance and with the much more powerful Morgan as your next door neighbor. I will go steal Centauri Genetics from you, which in my mod gives mindworms. And some other things, actually they have quite a bonanza available.
MY 2201. I get the Cyborgs to call off their wars. Svensgaard now fights only the Usurpers. Morgan fights the Caretakers and the Usurpers. Yang and Aki aren't fighting anyone.
a long time to colonize |
MY 2209. I finally colonize the other part of the Ruins. I've got Marr stalemated, no real progress towards him for lack of productivity. He isn't quite the pushover that Yang was in my other game. I'm going to attribute that to his directed research. Yes he had the 3 colony spam advantage, but I also started close enough to him to wipe out 1/4 of his cities. With more pressing need to make my own cities get bigger, I just can't do anything about his.
Morgan, the Pirates, and even the Caretakers are going nuts, they're way in the future. I'm stealing stuff from the Caretakers and have even captured a sea base near their territory. I might actually be able to hold it, as I've sent quite a flotilla of warships and probe teams that way. It is proving a useful staging area for stealing more techs. I suppose that's a partial success story, that I'm doing fine expanding at sea.
Post by: bvanevery on March 09, 2019, 03:47:59 AM
MY 2216. I've stolen many techs from the Caretakers including Industrial Automation. I have 914 cash so I could complete a Secret Project. I notice the Planetary Energy Grid isn't actually finished. I switch to Wealth to make it even cheaper. I cash 1 Artifact and am so close on credits, that I wait until next turn to rush.
MY 2219. I'm making 157 credits/turn. My existing units are still enough to fend off the Usurpers, even with some morale reduction. They aren't probing my western flank anymore. They have been in a skirmish with Pirate probe teams for a long time, south of my southernmost city. I even see a Pirate hovertank down there. Also the Caretakers and Pirates have occasionally attacked their west coast.
Post by: bvanevery on March 09, 2019, 05:50:42 AM
I have 878 credits. Only Marr is working on the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm and he's nowhere near finishing. Soon I will make it mine.
MY 2225. Sunspots have ended. Nobody cares about fighting the Caretakers. I've stolen all their tech, and their cities are worthless to me, so I don't care either. We sign a Truce.
MY 2226. The Hive stole from me, so I've declared war. Although he has left me 2 walk-ins, I sent all my ships far away. I rush the HSA. That Hive Foil probe team can come again, so I hope it completes before they move. I've got a bunch of Usurper 3-Pulse probe teams coming at me as well, but I've put 3 armored probe teams in that city to garrison it.
MY 2227. The Hive steals a minor tech before the HSA completes. At least I haven't lost a base. Now I have a whole pile of excess Foil Probe Teams I can wreak havoc with. I slaughtered most of the probe teams sent against my southern base, using my Unity Jet to pin a 3-Pulse team so that it couldn't escape my Impact Infantry. I don't actually need to worry about the last 3-Pulse team as it may commit suicide. The AI is not very bright that way.
MY 2228. Former allies Yang and Svensgaard are at war, with Yang getting the short end of it. Meanwhile I walk into a sea base he put on my coast, using a specially designed Amphibious Plasma unit. He thinks he wants to keep fighting. Fine Yang, I'll take sea bases until you get the message.
Morgan decides he wants war on the Caretakers just as I've started moving my troublemaking units away. Sigh. At least they do have 1 tech to steal.
Morganites destroy it all |
MY 2234. The Morganites and Pirates are ridiculously far ahead. I don't have the productivity to do much about it. So, a nearby faction can't harm me, but I experience so much production spam of one kind or another, that I can't make any progress against distant AI factions either. I guess the only remaining question is, will something shift before either of these factions Transcends.
I finally sail into an undefended Hive sea base. Yang signs a Treaty.
Using an Elite Foil Probe Team I steal Doctrine: Air Power from the Caretakers.
Post by: bvanevery on March 09, 2019, 06:44:31 AM
MY 2238. Now that the Morganites and Pirates aren't making any Secret Projects, I'm able to buy a pile of techs from the Pirates. Including Fusion Power.
a dumb thing to do |
MY 2239. Very strangely, the Usurpers let me walk into an undefended city containing the Citizens' Defense Force. I suppose it's possible that they got hit with a Conventional Missile, but I haven't seen any falling. I was doing the 2 plane escort thing, just running around destroying Sensor Arrays. I don't know how long I'll be able to keep this as I have nothing to reinforce with.
Post by: bvanevery on March 09, 2019, 08:21:03 AM
MY 2244. The Morganites and the Pirates have gone to war. I will try to stay out of it. The Morganites also asked me to whack Yang, so I'm doing it.
MY 2245. You know, it's 3 AM, and I just don't have it in me to deal with so many cities anymore. I'm quitting.
Once again, I did not use my Artifacts for anything, because it feels like "wasting" them.
Yes I stole a fair number of techs, but at an enormous mouse clicking cost to do so. In the past, this alone has caused me to quit games. Looking back on it, it doesn't really feel like progress when the Morganites and Pirates are so far ahead. It feels like mouse clicking.
When I slaughtered the Hive in the previous game, I think it had a lot to do with having 2 planes for escorts to take out Sensor Arrays. 1 plane doesn't really work. You have to keep flying back to base, which leaves units vulnerable.
Also in the previous game, I made piles of probe teams to take out Perimeter Defenses. This game I hardly made anything. I think that's a basic function of having a cramped starting position next to the Usurpers.
There was a point early on when I clearly was doing fine against the Usurpers. Then I started building city improvements instead of military units, because I feared "falling behind" the Morganites and Pirates. Well clearly, in hindsight, I was never ever going to catch them by building city improvements. It's impossible. I might have caught up by crushing the Usurpers utterly and becoming very very large.