Alpha Centauri 2

Community => Recreation Commons => Topic started by: Elok on July 01, 2018, 01:30:23 PM

Title: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Elok on July 01, 2018, 01:30:23 PM

So, I saw the Incredisequel twice on its opening weekend--once with my wife, once with my son.  The beginning and end are rushed, and the main plot is quite predictable, but I still loved it.  Partly this might be inherited goodwill from the first movie, partly it might be that the humor was outstanding, but I think a lot of it's just that straight CG plain works better for superhero stuff than live action with SFX.  Like, when I watch a Marvel movie, the plots are no more predictable--sometimes less so--and the humor is often good, but no matter how they do it, it doesn't feel like a comic book.  It feels like a weird action movie that borrows from comics.  Nothing can make Hawkeye not seem silly to me, or make guys in fancy leather suits look like the extravagantly costumed heroes and villains of comic books.  When I watch I2, the (well-done) fight scenes feel like I'm actually watching a comic unfold onscreen, with the bold colors and outlandish powers used to full effect.  A live-action version of Mr. Incredible would just look stupid in that outfit.  Think of the 1980 movie Flash Gordon.  Eww.

However, this seems like a really trivial reason to love The Incredibles, while I stopped bothering with the MCU about ten movies back.  Especially since Brad Bird has said the superhero aspect is less interesting to him than the family aspect.  Maybe part of it is that the characterization is better?  I really don't know.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Unorthodox on July 01, 2018, 04:20:41 PM

Have not seen I2, so won't comment much. 

I wonder how much of this is due to childhood. 

We grew up watching more or less comics brought to us on Saturday morning cartoons.  So, the animation is a lot easier transition for us. 

I've felt the same about Batman for years.  The movies are just NOT BATMAN to me.  I don't care who they put into the suit, or who plays the Joker. 

But today, we have a generation of kids who not only have grown up seeing this live action comics in the big movie theaters, but saturday morning cartoons no longer even try to adapt comics.  When they grow up, will they find animation a silly way to do comic adaptations? 

I do want to give a shout out to the original Hulk, however.  (not part of the MCU)

No, they butchered a lot of things here, but IT FELT LIKE A COMIC.   

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpoB6-TCGWw#)

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Elok on July 02, 2018, 04:54:23 PM

Honestly, I'm a bit of a curmudgeon about modern movies in general; maybe I'm just a 34-year-old geezer, but I feel like action movies have gotten substantially dumber.  Like, has any movie come out that's even close to as good as the original Die Hard, or Aliens, or Predator?  Yes, there were a lot of dumb old movies, but even big awesome events like Avatar are plodding wads of cliche with gorgeous SFX.  I'm aware of the explanation that it's the internet's and video games' fault, or the result of the ballooning costs of production and marketing making studios risk-averse and leading to much more meddling from the money-men.  And that the growing international market is hungry for spectacle.  But Incredibles 2 was the first movie in, like, a decade or so that I've felt legitimately excited about seeing in a non-ironic way (I guess honorable mention goes to Pacific Rim, but I wasn't that excited).  That's a shame.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Unorthodox on July 04, 2018, 11:30:50 PM

I think things just go in phases. 

Horror is circling back around to where I actually like it again.  For 10-15 years there wasn't a thing come out I liked, but we're seeing something akin to the 70's horror style come back around with things like Get Out, A Quiet Place, and Hereditary hitting the theaters and being done fantastically well.  Movies that are smart, not this formulaic cash grab or wannabe action film that dominated the genre for years. 

Action has really been boiled down to pure popcorn movie/escapism of late, it's true. It's so incredibly overdone as to be ludicrous.  There's nothing wrong with that on occasion, but they are ultimately forgettable as a result in the sea of the same.  (at least what I've seen.  I'm not exactly running out to every action movie)

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 05, 2018, 03:41:02 AM

I saw it today. The opening short didn't make me laugh or cry this time. They usually do.

I think I like Incredibles II as much as the original, which is my favorite movie. I collect Incredibles stuff, so maybe I'm not an impartial judge. I do think a lot more time and thought goes into an Incredibles script than a comic book script. A big part of the delay in the sequel was Brad Bird saying he wouldn't make a sequel until he had an idea for a story that was as good. Of course other commitments got in the way, too. Postponement after postponement. For a while there was talk of a "20 years later" sequel, where Jack-Jack was grown up and under the influence of a villain. I'm really glad they didn't go that route. One of the things I love the most about the movies is what I would call the production design in a normal film. The cars, buildings, and technology in a sort of eclectic mix of mid-50s to 1970. The same with the music.


As for the other observations-


I liked both 1930s(?)  Flash Gordon and the 1980ish one. A theater serial remade as a movie seemed fair to me, but I suppose a tv series would have been better the more that I think about it, particularly since I first saw the 1930s Flash Gordon as a tv series, multiple episodes back to back weekly.


I first knew Batman from the Adam West tv series. I loved the movie, didn't know the Dark Knight comics. I guess I'd put it in the category of Jack Nicholson star vehicle, same as Pirates/Johnny Depp, or Iron Man/Robert Downey Jr. I'm really watching for the stars indulging themselves. That can be really fun.


I do agree Die Hard, Aliens, & Predator were great action movies. I'd add Terminator. They each had an interesting idea. But I don't know if modern movies action are really worse, because I see so few of them by comparison. A big reason for that is that these popular action computer effects and camera angles ( think Transformers & Avatar ) give me motion sickness. I'm more involved with not losing my balance/ not throwing up than the subtleties that may or may not be part of the story. But kids who grew up on Transformers seemed to love them.

I did go to see Thor, he was my comic book hero because Viking mythology. I thought the actor was well cast, but yes, the movie approach didn't seem to do the comic book justice the way Pixar or other animation might have. Asgard and what-not didn't seem the same to me.

I was introduced to Superman in comics and 1960s cartoons. That seemed like an easy transition. Again, while I think Christopher Reeve was well cast in the movies, I disliked them, except for Sarah Douglas and Valerie Perrine ( who have long, sexy legs ).


While we're on the topic- Star Wars as a movie is awesome. As a TV special it sucked. As a cartoon it didn't appeal to me either.


There have been any number of novels that didn't succeed as movies in my mind- so I guess that the idea of first exposure influences expectations a great deal. It would be interesting to raise the issue with my nephew, who is an avid comic book reader and movie goer.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Elok on July 08, 2018, 07:33:06 PM

The original Incredibles was certainly my favorite Pixar movie.  The sequel was superior comedically, but in most other respects it was good fun but not fantastic.  I saw the "I strongly disagree!" bit and thought, "okay, one of those two is the villain."  Certain scenes, most notably the Happy Platter, were predictable as well.  And too many of the action scenes involved stopping a large vehicle from smashing stuff.  I'd have rather seen more involvement from the new supers at the expense of, say, the helicopter scene.

(still totally going to buy the DVD)

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Elok on July 10, 2018, 07:53:04 PM

Also, does anyone know why Elastigirl's butt doubled in size for this movie?  Like, she went from typical shape for a late-thirties American housewife to a Kim Kardashian impersonator.  And the camera angles seemed to emphasize it at points, so it got distracting.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Unorthodox on July 11, 2018, 01:29:57 AM

Tell me you're joking.  I mean I haven't seen the second, but she had a stupidly exaggerated ass in number 1 with a scene of her checking it out. 

I think she may look normalish outside the suit, but in suit she chooses to have a big ass and pencil waist. 

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Elok on July 11, 2018, 02:51:08 PM

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I recall that scene from 1, and I don't recall her butt being all that enormous in it.  Not going to fire up the DVD just to confirm cartoon-character booty in one scene, though.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 11, 2018, 09:27:55 PM

Her butt was pretty pronounced in the first one...

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Elok on July 12, 2018, 06:58:52 AM

I recall her being larger on the bottom than on the top, but in a way that's typical for women her age.  I don't know, maybe it's just the shiny outfit combined with camera angles and advances in animation technology, but in this one her butt sometimes looks like it might be shifting the tides somewhat.

And now like half the posts in this thread are about a fictional character's butt.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: E_T on July 12, 2018, 02:24:33 PM

but.. but.. but...

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Elok on July 13, 2018, 07:46:48 PM

All right, I watched the original with my son today (because he was bored, not just to ogle a cartoon, TYVM), and I'm reasonably certain the Elastibuns are significantly bigger in the sequel.  Call it 80% certainty.  It's possible that it's just an artifact of the three factors in reply ten, but without comparing the two films directly, interrogating animators, appealing to Lori to crunch numbers on angular surface vector model whatchimas, etc., I'm going to say provisionally, yes, the Pixar crew has been listening to Sir Mixalot.

I'm sure you were all eager to have the case files closed on this mystery.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: E_T on July 14, 2018, 02:46:21 AM

:lol:

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2018, 03:03:00 AM

;buttdance

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: E_T on July 14, 2018, 04:18:07 PM

Is that all you can say???

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2018, 04:35:31 PM

It's all I felt like saying.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Elok on July 14, 2018, 05:11:05 PM

Ahem.  In awesome-ish news, Wiki notes that Disney/Pixar's decision to push the release date forward a year forced Brad Bird to leave a lot of loose threads that he'd like to deal with.  Incredibles 3 is not an explicit project or anything like it, but it's a possibility.  I was expecting him to say Hell No.  Now, if it takes another decade, all three leads will have noticeably geriatric voices, and God only knows what Brad's Edna will sound like ...

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 15, 2018, 04:52:58 AM

That is awesome news!
I didn't get back to the theater to see it again as yet. Perhaps Tuesday.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 01, 2018, 06:40:00 AM

Still haven't made it back. I'll have to make time, and not worry about the cheapest time to see it again.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Unorthodox on August 01, 2018, 10:41:42 PM

Still haven't made it...

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 07, 2018, 05:26:04 AM

Okay, saw it again, probably enjoyed it more the second time. Maybe I've seen too much fan art, but I don't think the butt is much different. That's not to dispute Elok's ruling, I'm a leg man anyway.  If it is bigger, well, that happens. I'd pay to see the movie some more.


I understand there will be an Edna short as an added bonus in the DVD. YAY! She's my favorite. As for how Edna would sound in a future movie.... she's a smoker, his voice will still fit.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Unorthodox on September 07, 2018, 01:53:00 PM

Still haven't seen...that one is being stubborn about hitting the dollar theater.  I think they've changed how all that works from when I worked in theaters, as it's plain not playing here at the moment, not even at the dollar house.  Used to be theaters would basically have an auction for which movies they could show, and the dollar house would be able to get anything not showing at the big houses.  Looks like they have some kind of minimum these days at least. 

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Elok on September 10, 2018, 03:10:31 AM

I was hoping for another JJA-style short.  Good.  Let's see some Edna, why not.

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Unorthodox on October 14, 2018, 03:32:54 AM

Well.  I finally made it to the dollar house...

On the butt talk.  I certainly didn't find anything distracting or much noticeable.  But the new suit did seem designed to accentuate the pencil waistline.  Wouldn't be shocked to see some small measurable difference as a result if someone got ahold of the different models. 

As for the movie...

I didn't care for it as much as the first one, honestly. 

The inconsistency crap from the end of the first was distracting right off the bat. 

(click to show/hide)

Why on earth are they responsible for all the damage from the underminer fight, but not syndrome's robot?  The villain escapes in both scenarios.  They're treated as heros at the end of one, and as villains at the end of 2.  WHY on earth would the whole family be ready to go at the drop of a hat if it was still so illegal?  And suddenly no one knows Jack Jack has powers.  WTF?

Almost everything with Jack Jack felt like I'd seen it before/cliche/rushed. 

I do like the new supers, but am totally ready for an evil league of evil. 

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: E_T on October 14, 2018, 10:56:30 PM

Quote from: Unorthodox on October 14, 2018, 03:32:54 AM

am totally ready for an evil league of evil.

Ah, the Third Movie plot device...

Title: Re: Why do I like The Incredibles better than Marvel? (potential spoilers)
Post by: Elok on October 16, 2018, 07:55:41 PM

It did strike me as kind of weird that Dicker apparently never thought to tell the Parrs about Jack-Jack.  I suppose they brushed that over because they wanted the dramatic irony, but it was a bit silly.  And yeah, the way they had to roll back the clock on Super acceptance was a bit much.  I didn't like it as much as the original, but it was entertaining enough compared to most of the dreck that comes out these days.