Alpha Centauri 2

Community => Recreation Commons => Topic started by: Unorthodox on December 26, 2017, 02:37:01 AM

Title: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Unorthodox on December 26, 2017, 02:37:01 AM

The only thing I know for certain is my grandpa told my mom it was a civil war sword.  I have my doubts about THAT.  Given that grandpa died in '68, we know for certain it's early 1900s. 

I got precious little to go on outside of that.  I don't see the design on any quick searches, there's a serial and a couple marks that don't make much sense to me yet.  My best guess is a british sword circa 1914-1917 ish, which would put it more WWI. 

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Rusty Edge on December 26, 2017, 04:43:48 AM

I have a little experience in Civil War swords. I own two. One is an authentic Union model, and the other is a good reproduction of a Confederate sword. The Confederate one was buried in a manure pile or something to make it look old and pass for authentic. Confederate made ones are scarce and expensive. I figure it was a fake or a franken-sword, but I thought the scabbard might be worth the price I paid, as it would fit my other sword. At any rate I paid market price for each at the time.. [ EDIT FOR CLARITY - market price of the reproduction as a reproduction]

The thing you want to look for are maker's and inspector's marks. Stamps in the brass or etchings in the steel. Nmbers, letters, symbols. That should tell you who made it, and you can start searching based upon that. If it's an all original mass production model, military issue,  it should have those proof marks. A fake or a franken-sword, not so much.

Let me take a look at my real sword. It has marks on both faces of the hilt end of the blade. One is the manufacturer and location. The other is the country, year and blade maker's initial. It also has marks on the cross guard on the side towards the blade, near each edge. One is the inspector's initials, the other is the armory location.

This is for American Civil War Swords.

http://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcollector/marks/page2.html (http://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcollector/marks/page2.html)


British swords tend towards crowns and towers and stuff. Probably the best place to ask is a WWI forum, if it looks British circa 1914.

At any rate, you have to figure out what the model is before you can determine for sure if it's authentic and what the value is.

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Unorthodox on December 26, 2017, 05:03:52 AM

It's got a serial or something.  The rest is MAYBE worn out marks which lead me to think british, because some of that doesn't have much.  I'll get some pics tomorrow, and post why this come up.   

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Unorthodox on December 26, 2017, 01:26:43 PM

So, the sword:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9eecp4vzRe7ssfpBzDn66kHpxpzJ8h_vgsl6iyneNzVBXRL2jp4SRIphTUdzvpHJ_aAUGCUYGcIn_phIZg3K0I1wl185KMZCMHepULuM4BhpW7Pc3vHJ-IiWojaNYxM60jIMHsU7-PiqLiVqHwZ10NNeQTwJwMqm_Ja2F5IG9oxPeXdn304QkF3jkXp6S9eJRZbR8eOFd7Iuc4XQDEYucf-ss2NobU7tCESuw_eZJ_GUhS3U9p9CBWwOL27L1Fn6ia4xEC8QUjT4f2RGnmxhUySY5n8sRzWHIvTBXFH0HZncBMHa_G7Fp6HSLowSeF7khk7_sGpW5e_vPS_r6A_LiSFMTa3p3b8RHIs9P-gpqnBDhTbr5Ll_2B4jIkMiuBmiUMUTsdVfp64-wfu2AsvK2z6Tl1gfdSDSk-hs7hqMDwL5RwkS9fUHZbZGpqsGitXvCHgR0bdN315LY28iTlD59A8vqRcGsF95OG03PEQqzq7d2UNEgR7t0bhWqbFzVed_1JR7eJXYrHzuKGCQvZodhqjI0aEvEBxbHHqbB__qdxTA_6mcnJDySELRyXHlShODpYcWCfF_AcQq46qAVE-K396Pm4IFjghvfl9s4z4r=w687-h916-no)

One thing that might help identify, but I don't know how common such a thing was, is this little clip that keeps it in the scabbard.  My only other sword is a claymore, which obviously wouldn't have such a thing. 

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kSB57JIdgdGqFxrKipCOI9aPtGg6Y6aORVXNUYxOgd8HLYGTljVCrAVQYBtfXyAYOoYYjAhhPMgBCIbiy2pIFwuS__F6CIlh-hUpB3QDITmcI8l98mUvB9L3pk7S0dUH7oNn93qTNcbNJRd3ud4Z2nw7_2MSnrr856-kyPv2kuIvKQ9N5xhMlQyOzcMHB-F4tah6uP9pMYYv-v4Hw6B0aMRPw2qRlTq0VzUV8f0y-98u8vJASBMb0AHu7wRuMsm1GMPdOa5KVb4nn8CJXtzyp9x_MC_3uHZ8cKO5oFZ1DIz67h2dYPP8-93UjJGk1lyvjCuzf-z5bNBZxeBCYXdNnAL0kks4oflQQKJrMKM1gIYz_v7yo3RpByXKSieN0KsBR1Ak_GikrrRHUYV99qvjT2Yip9NxezqqXch29XGLs6LKnHVJZmBYIykkOrMem1UoDNjyIk-96BB-jlfSMJbcGuCub_zr2_Lxm3y9P6ZKSGXZK-mIMQkmWDu9uJ2iL74XqM4FisNKFgIxWbHx0--jrSW4AEKunn26Ic71ce-UawIM2ZToSKmnbWZypZSXcNli-oRND7SIoR4nT46Rlc9mW-9qgspxdIkV4ZEvikQX=w687-h916-no)

Under the pin is a serial number 53859.  (and yes, it looks like someone did a bad paint job on the guard and scabbard at some point, not thinking this is worth anything, just curious)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wWqSew1N8ydVBZ8qXETSngd_8v9OjZaSBdiX8IarNm2fVVlUrm9WG2BLgadUWCXC_69LW-NP_Kw2s9ZZUybrvdkdZD44S6-ELvbr4RsdYkOec708I88yQMm-3DUWoiJgdw8wkjG0GpGPNaI5bZA9CaaTc9aSEd1Zcrxh3lzTHKjOqpRrmoZo-XR7jBqYKWBt4CPIkYYGnxx9Mbv5cMQdW9Q2PrPYv2jx8epGxIBa3D10__ocjT0ycux2i0msSdvDhoH3Rmoh7QAuLHRY2DAiU6yyaxGfvK1R3SB-zkl8HqMJxK-82pm2ACi5XxvMRgq-KYxl00E3aFCAG9CDWHNhpe_RviMvkVxhnVfiP03K2h_MbwSmPv2s1xVskZL-2Bbi52_-xsiLBegSNxkcvAibnwot3hfUgNZff49XVt_XKD2gMKdQvHQ3diBmSZkfiByEY66ZdLsk8rLqy6neLvoM5YKDBpJIyn3nH_ioWNRSdVMDAQSxBHnBwYHu6j-N8yDqGpb6NBh_PzD1ppjrMBFqRF5BwLDsNNNeu9cV1dIOQiiF8C3IXOTU8XwSQynzpe_6aAoW1YO-v2fCmlrkzUUdiIYRBwgoonca3MJgwo2q=w687-h916-no)

The other side has what might be/have been some kind of maker's marks, but I need magnification to tell what it might be at the very least. 

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p3KdgCQElWTXZdTxJ0skh1dmlxxTtTARgul1OaQke7n7c7j2aYfSKH3eMpCDRfFwP5WsIO7wXYzMpP0b7E_lt_ImWsyQpWa5lcpyRDgQ4ZN29CqNaL-XV_LO0Q7WP-b87D82WkJK1sO2yWVpvu6NJMdnwM01vRjIkXKiPiLA3e0Mia3acc6Yq9d1E7EwUGlgiTi1_kGpdCqvOnO5e7tXIj5tpdBi8EKGXdHPGGM3_CRO1fqpg_kD5wFuiKVi9ERnAmhtCCYcIMIoeg0ARzuGTQl9tCIaAn85XlU2X22XCr6izQ1du_U9XbYIKopqaat_7DsW54L_ZcVMMkmdUjRRV6q8kbIA-eoFde-tgYoGzmY1l7j3Lcezm1YkDTulGyxhUPg6e1jLW4lSOaNatW9SyBLlmBJF0kVMp4EP1aCIAjn7_LfDk7RL2kEwVl5uai3CQKYX0JKdZ_fVpvcLj0mUOlJdaTqUssRnqXdNHcyKx1vK0jydO_1EiTgrjcFzX2pGCIF_cKCaxum1Gi9ucajA2R1aStlJsyLjWfRlwpF1xy2C2wJadoLI5_U9B0IfoQ1eQW2ldRUk1713BJUwVZD4AU2G1CPvd8Yl-3SzkGIq=w687-h916-no)

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Rusty Edge on December 26, 2017, 04:11:59 PM

I can't see any of the photos, just black x's

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 26, 2017, 04:38:12 PM

Same here.

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Unorthodox on December 26, 2017, 04:38:42 PM

I hate the new google photos...

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Unorthodox on December 26, 2017, 04:45:46 PM

This one work?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tpAnwSuULLw57x1KQoXxEfRGyqWBDgWK3YsOeJh-oqGkKyPiSv32Rh2IEvjcHZXD-WMg3LBHOGTkmZUYp-K-gI419nr3AZ_KAXdORlII9_i8u8dg7TcWvS7X_18W-8ECLwuL3R_rL80X2267hsQ2TCsvN5GL1yFnoGc1g8hxPEVb3uytk13Bj-6upeGgsrJNxS8fh33SosTvusq2ZOhwqE_YVBdvSWNsRTc8XYNOqZj0JkkzdkXXE_hEBr1zB30bRt-CpuNv5jczeBNAWSFqlS1JOH0aAKmERscyH2UdtKLeTjYvw_ljzt6vBQ5iS9e-DaM8bDUzELqoaVglwTX4sGWI81084E7H7ExJPPK7jvCQlqU6lqF0ZudWnsJvlNCez4TRZfIfWEc2BC_wwAhRFyqL3Z6p1zQw0147CfyLfz6jnX6A7JcsDNT59PQ1_ix6NUshdZXdJybghq-4xYQR-xPHgXxFtpAKeM3qSURUJRFS4aFypK7PK99kXa1Z9P5dVdF2-vMtO6t1sQ62D_a1xleW-WlyuLtHPl3105mAZDN3BbPsnt6pzHcMN4BEEiKBvainMlDBFGiZyHtiEs9stdUFF1_H-iJLtFEKZoIE=w687-h916-no)

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 26, 2017, 05:38:12 PM

I see it.

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Unorthodox on December 26, 2017, 05:46:24 PM

Crap Had a post with the rest of them vanish...

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Unorthodox on December 26, 2017, 05:48:44 PM

Ok, the odd clip thing.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k5OSbrJP_GA7Yj7LM5PinDzMVpRFhUzxl3_kKt_n-CE4kU5euEzSeHSEB6tmxMrUCK20Ut-0nBVX65SZnI5ERRtA6sSF_N9-2iApHWnPHehEp1EaAoF1UMNm2HfblQ5apgiNU4wNhp7Doyzon3Wq8o1wEk86BunHMOimabOm4jtWT5Hcdx8qeHKY2m4mxLd-PzTEYzgHJffL_UjtDYU0lQQBLnEPvZunvFOh6oKu_tFTJ1UYUzfCamNaZnrPP912CKmVve429PeraXzAVvsoo5X1HP1963PL5AZDUVZlYgPglXnHtsVuDoIriUHc4QwE6TJ2hOYTgGmInI4N6N3PppdkAhmcsRFrAlqt3LR1M_lU1F_F5Tos1hGVmJH79fchJV_MYEpDcEIviE6syzPk1d6OvkFdTZwzVV_V_0EiiiLZAYA4aqAB4X2dJEOmcMKWEFbtoQ19sG2TrhDFDnfXpUt5xXn2bZa0MmuKzjfQa6VU1_KBDXVANq8Nj6_rMW37JCnOU0navEKCGaHPOaIiHU62UXZTHdgPVOYLDn6YuSJEyP--ayE4YIfx-Bp3e52U9f69kkaL_OqEAaPq3KKLslc_8jZbgWDZIkdSBmjL8hPTLCl8c3hHxP-IPacrhXf1tf9xNHW4TnWc_n3NfCjliyU7-QB5Cb70Uw=w687-h916-no)

Serial number:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SgxbniChsmjmmBkHvBhKjBs2KMCSzit_frutZv5TIv4XJSqhs4EAFWla2qD60vTg0a4o1RdQ43ua38cBnlVAT7uZMOOi_5lg5G5LULmndeLg62wM3Z4-mvHMCnR5ca0TNnN__-ywt17a20djrQgaS6N93gOHYH8WWS7SnacE9h3RvvC6s60MEOziX3R-EnJjruzuFi0tWr2XnZ0N5OA_1b3lDbXN8oyX2RB35PdYgLiylvnJhFYH6Neta8QevDzL7gCxomxGw5xV67O0GaF_kS8coTxGld9Z5TPIc9-7ydlAZxPl4UrO3h8z7oCmFUsB_Q6wI_rK8ktG375kwmNa-Sm3jxOVVM_WNp0Fso66-CLMvKLOqSBFS12dDcsXBJpCbuJnYCYTkcZZeop8tcbHS1o87fwp-f2jb4jLSftGuog5wIY9wj_nzNjU3Uezg1qamaB4rWk1EQs6eR2DI4BjcervACmWPCjn4lpc6QT61zr58u8UouhmFSLOE8jJv9cT6sgesJcqD90Z35-kNCwvsJogRWD0gH7zEvNhIkIJIr5LNlerq-SIx5SF0fTpKG_WBACEcH-pz4Y7XcGvu1UCyKdU8WpyhdKNGGGzMXR77mivDJ3iZ8YaRHIlGSrFVOff0VttIQ3o_2dliKc6R3XEaQIZ1Vivp0nT_Q=w687-h916-no)

Possible marks I need to magnify to see better:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AJ3goOBgOXfD0JU8Xm_AWUSPgs-peFZWaX_2hwOSPHq6kqBrTmEmxD0kLXtYJ0QZkAvs1gSg21C-VyQTeLluhN9yFxep3v8P3ejFRW3XHA3-Uy7NcDB7I5NWDj_OJunR-5Aqd36NdMA2t5AH5OTWkFbQJqcitX3RCAzLPVyKcLA-XF0krn1aFRnAwyetjMpADYEDQWCROmXeBKtqVFvhjWXaIyLuIfyfE2T8JEKF5KnoM97x6gyC9S3dXvQjQEuFqnmJ8dAFFFd4XgODWTeErbaSYaVYUuAiHYktHLa8XX7hOTMlEsWYa0KxMqAudWgTzlI1JfR9W1Qr5r-i4rRrnxDpCXbRemT_HXfm0VdYEY7S9tcSPVIdPzoXq_cpX2oNrJBmtP9eoErxYLgsQTAZtLSqxSefymaM8N2OZe5vcXM9iwzfwR8v5XY0ARQjUEsbkdBT1Ta_bj3UnguO77TDt8SCtTNKJ7wyihVn2ATSTatj9LQfhDWhDJPG47L4PgXNTpo8-7imyPhbmP5UM-F0wK837_RjSxhldzxnb9o91ox04d8fcaWBxaLXx-jmIzADzPnSfbFiqrii-_e0b6pp7bArrO7_H-VhrSWhHHXKdf8-BAB91N5dW8QLNX19bHNEGA0epcq-XV2ZeRw80gfSkJ1tbC0H5lAsZg=w687-h916-no)

I think I can get Vera and the macro lens out as an ad hoc magnification rig for those marks.  After "work" today. 

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Unorthodox on December 26, 2017, 06:01:46 PM

Well...

I sent the pics to an antique weapons dealer.  It's a Japanese Cavalry type 32 sword.  Doesn't help with how my grandpa ended up with it, but likely another WWII bounty he collected along with a couple Nazi items and some german silver... 

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Rusty Edge on December 26, 2017, 08:20:18 PM

Cool.

I would have said the reminds me of a cavalry style sword, but I think you're right about it being from the 1900s.  Beyond that I have no idea.

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Unorthodox on December 26, 2017, 09:08:32 PM

Apparently i had the wrong grandpa in mind.  This grandpa died in '81.  And that actually makes more sense than other things to my story. 

Anyhow. 

Sword story.  Don't know if I ever told this one on here.  It's up there with the ghost puppies. 

Paternal Grandpa.  The sword was among the things picked up by my dad when he died.  We got the story of it being a civil war sword at that time, and thus given to my dad as mom is a civil war nut, and was going to hang it up somewhere.  Well, that never come to fruition, and we were told to never touch it and it was put away.  So of course, we tried to look at it whenever we could. 

So, we tried to pull it from the sheath when I was real young, to be hampered by that clip.  Thus it got this mystical quality in my heads.  So, my older brother finally figures it out when we are home alone one night.  Well, it hadn't been cleaned, and there was this reddish brown stuff on it (still was before I cleaned it, some kind of tarnish stuff), and I KNEW it was blood.  Older brother quickly closed it and put it back away. 

Anyhow, nightmares ensued with this bloody sword obviously being haunted, and it coming to get me.  It would seemingly move around "on it's own" in the basement (parents moving it as they knew I kept finding it), and each time that blood seemed to get WORSE. 

My parents have joked with me about the haunted sword several times over the years, and I kept swearing there was blood on it to my child's mind.   

Anyway Christmas.  My nephew was heading to the basement to grab sodas.  As I always do, I told him to watch out for the ghosts in the basement.  He laughs and gets the sodas and says he didn't see any ghosts.  We chuckle about the ghost puppies in the basement, and he starts getting worried, so I say there's even a ghost sword down there.  My dad starts arguing about the sword, and goes to get it to prove there's no blood on it.  Brings it up, unsheaths it, and it shines all reddish in the light. 

SEE!  It's the blood of everyone it killed!

Well, now the kids are downright scared. 

So, dad sheaths it and shoves it at me telling me to take it home where all the ghosts live anyway.  They've sat on it for 30 years doing nothing, I can have it. 

Title: Re: Anyone have any experience identifying antique swords?
Post by: Geo on December 27, 2017, 04:10:30 PM

Quote from: Unorthodox on December 26, 2017, 09:08:32 PM

So, dad sheaths it and shoves it at me telling me to take it home where all the ghosts live anyway.  They've sat on it for 30 years doing nothing, I can have it.

Oh my, that's literally priceless. :D