Alpha Centauri 2

Community => Recreation Commons => Topic started by: Elok on February 13, 2017, 12:16:49 AM

Title: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Elok on February 13, 2017, 12:16:49 AM

It has become clear to me, and basically everybody else, that American politics are hopelessly dysfunctional.  Is this controversial or debatable?  Everybody seems to agree on it; they only disagree on why.  My take is that the country is divided between two very noisy tribes who have ceased to have any kind of meaningful common space in which to engage; they talk almost exclusively to people who share their beliefs, mostly about how bad the other people are.  I say "they" rather than "we" because I'm not convinced that either tribe has clearly defined edges, or even that both together properly constitute a majority of the country.  There's a rather big hunk of muddle in the middle who are queasy about both options but have no alternative.

There is a conflict here.  Conflicts can be resolved in two basic ways: escalation and de-escalation.  They can worsen until one side smashes the other, or one or more parties can calm down and reconcile.  The former is very messy.  The latter is deeply improbable, and will only become more so with time.  We have progressed to the point where otherwise reasonable people will propose purely spiteful actions without regard for larger strategy.  For example, pressuring companies to stop carrying Ivanka [Sleezebag]'s crap.  This is going to dislodge her dad from the White House how?

Also at some point Sarah Silverman called for a military coup to depose [Sleezebag].  It is unclear to what extent she was serious.  Where are we going here, people?

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Spacy on February 13, 2017, 12:39:01 AM

West, at about the rate a fingernail grows (about 2-3 cm a year, or an inch or so).  Unless you are in Cali, in which case you are moving north by northwest at a slightly faster rate.

Should smack into Asia in about 65-70 million years.  At which point we will likely move north and hang around the north polar region for the next 100-150 million years.  At least, that is current best guess estimate based off known past supercontinents (Kenorland, Ur, Vaalbara, Nuna, Rodinia, Pannotia, & Pangaea - not in any order) and current tectonic drift rates - which are, in truth, not really well understood. 

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 13, 2017, 01:10:12 AM

It's difficult, even in distant retrospect, to pinpoint when the Roman Republic was irrevocably doomed - but the news lately has had me thinking about the murderers of the Gracchi going unpunished...

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 13, 2017, 08:14:55 AM

I don't know where we are going, or what we are doing in a handbasket.

 I am disappointed at how little spine and ideology remains in the GOP.  Oh sure, Sen Rand Paul, NeoCons - Evan McMullen, David French and Bill Kristol, Never Trumpers now in new jobs - Charlie Sykes, George Will and John Ziegler still sound the same, but the fact that I can't think of anybody else sticking to their guns is astounding. The silence is deafening.

For all of the criticism of Obamacare, the lack of a GOP alternative to it, and the lack of legislative initiatives coming out of Congress is amazing after all of the 100 day talk.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: ComradeCrimson on February 13, 2017, 01:43:23 PM

What concerns me about America is that Donald [Sleezebag] has seemingly passed legislation on forbidding government agencies, including NASA, and others from posting on social media, and other legislation being passed such as the removal of Obamacare with very little motions through congress is very startling to me. Granted its a majority Republican government but even so, there is so few checks and balances now that its hardly seeming democratic. And i'm not just saying this because [Sleezebag] is right wing or due to his political stance, the fact is is that the motions of change in the legislature of America is becoming scary.

Not only that were seeing what the effects of radical populism can do to a state. A comparable example to [Sleezebag] is Rodrigo Duturte in the Philippines- a loud, foul mouthed strongman who has strong moral driven politics under a huge empowering sense of nationalism and populist appeal, with lots of concerns of corruption and illiberal political methods.

I see America going into a path of instability at the very least. Russia is looming over the horizon, an ever present threat to us, and I say us because Canada is going to be affected by the Russians as well.

I fear for my own country because the decisions made by the American government and those of its rivals in Russia are going to severely affect us. I don't foresee outright war but I do feel like a really nasty cold war is going to brew again and the fact [Sleezebag] has been so wishy washy with the dissolution of NATO (which is a horrible idea, in my eyes as then Europe and Canada in the north is now vulnerable to Russian bullying), first wanting to dissolve it and then wanting it to remain does not inspire confidence in me about him as a leader.

I feel like [Sleezebag] is going to have a nervous breakdown at some point; the stress of leadership will overwhelm him. I also feel like individuals such as Vice President Pence are going to be sneaks who are going to exploit the situation for their own gain. Overall, I don't know for sure where America is headed but I know that I as a Canadian am going to be very wary of what happens.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 14, 2017, 02:02:48 AM

I'm more concerned about an invasion of Mexico to get the "Bad Hombres" than a war with Russia.

I see [Sleezebag] and Putin trying to bring about a new world order based upon nationalism and authoritarianism. Perhaps they can influence elections in France.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: ComradeCrimson on February 14, 2017, 03:47:34 AM

Quote from: Rusty Edge on February 14, 2017, 02:02:48 AM

I'm more concerned about an invasion of Mexico to get the "Bad Hombres" than a war with Russia.

I see [Sleezebag] and Putin trying to bring about a new world order based upon nationalism and authoritarianism. Perhaps they can influence elections in France.

As someone who is rather patriotic for my country, a regionalist at that- I really do not like the idea of super powers becoming more nationalist and authoritarian. It only speaks of them imposing their will on their neighbours and that's one step closer to them liking the idea of occupying their neighbours to be frank.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 14, 2017, 05:01:20 AM

Flynn resigned.

We need an investigation.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Elok on February 14, 2017, 07:49:38 PM

My general feeling with [Sleezebag] is that he's taken the bullheaded incompetence that has marked US foreign policy for years, pumped it up with testosterone to five times its previous size, then brought it home and applied it to our domestic policy as well.  I have a hard time taking him seriously as a tyrant, given that he does not seem even remotely sure just what the hell he is doing.  And neither does anyone else.  I've gone from being frightened of his volatility to relieved that we got a helpless buffoon instead of a real monster.  I'm thinking more of the long term; however [Sleezebag] leaves office, he will leave, and then what will America and the world become?

Putin also does not bother me much, as he is a downright humane and reasonable leader by Russian standards and the country is in no shape to threaten Europe with conventional military force.  Nuclear, perhaps, but he doesn't seem that crazy.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Spacy on February 14, 2017, 09:27:52 PM

Quote from: Rusty Edge on February 14, 2017, 05:01:20 AM

Flynn resigned.

We need an investigation.

Or, according to the white house, he was fired and given the opportunity to resign first.....

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 14, 2017, 09:36:19 PM

It cannot have escaped all notice that I've had little to say about politics since early November.

It's too depressing.  We are, collectively as a nation, too stupid to live.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 14, 2017, 10:12:47 PM

Quote from: BUncle on February 14, 2017, 09:36:19 PM

It cannot have escaped all notice that I've had little to say about politics since early November.

It's too depressing.  We are, collectively as a nation, too stupid to live.

You've been pretty quiet altogether, including your foul mood thread. I didn't know if it was kitten deficiency, brother stress, or you were just due to lie low and introvert for a while to re-charge.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 14, 2017, 11:21:15 PM

Oh - I'm definitely in the low-energy end of my mood cycle, but IRL we ain't talking about politics around the table at meals anymore for several months now.  It hurts too much.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Elok on February 15, 2017, 05:10:37 AM

"But we must cultivate our garden," said Candide.  Whatever your garden happens to be.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 15, 2017, 04:16:31 PM

But my God; the fertilizer...

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Unorthodox on February 15, 2017, 06:16:17 PM

Quote from: Spacy on February 14, 2017, 09:27:52 PM

Or, according to the white house, he was fired and given the opportunity to resign first.....

Which making that statement would negate the opportunity to resign first in the first place...

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 15, 2017, 11:25:21 PM

Some of the [Sleezebag] behavior during the campaign, as well as after the election and inauguration has baffled me. This includes-

* Going out of his way to praise/make excuses for Putin/Russia. That's a rather un-Republican thing to do.

* Going out of his way to criticize the American intelligence community.

* Going out of his way to point out he won the election and by how much, as if his legitimacy as president was disputed.

* Ignoring the daily intelligence briefings, in favor of getting all of this info from Flynn.

* So, apparently the acting Attorney General informed [Sleezebag] that Flynn had been recorded talking to the Russian Ambassador. Potentially Flynn was illegally colluding and/or compromised by potential blackmail, putting both the [Sleezebag] Administration and the USA at risk, but [Sleezebag] left him in place for weeks until it came out in the press.

First campaign manager Paul Manafort, and now Gen. Flynn have been dismissed due to ties, financial and otherwise,  with the Russians. Is there a pattern here?  For that matter, could [Sleezebag]'s refusal to disclose or divest his financial holdings have anything to do with ties to Russia? Could [Sleezebag] himself have colluded with, or have been compromised by the Russians?

Hell if I know. Do me a favor and re-read my bullet points in light of these questions, and let me know if some kind of a Russian correlation is the simplest and most likely explanation of these baffling behaviors, or if I'm on the verge of a crackpot conspiracy.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Spacy on February 16, 2017, 12:00:18 AM

I think you are on the verge, but just on it.  He is to narcissistic to be that deep in anybody but his daddy's pockets I expect. 

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Elok on February 16, 2017, 12:51:08 AM

Quote from: Rusty Edge on February 15, 2017, 11:25:21 PM

Some of the [Sleezebag] behavior during the campaign, as well as after the election and inauguration has baffled me. This includes-

* Going out of his way to praise/make excuses for Putin/Russia. That's a rather un-Republican thing to do.

Possibly, but it's not irrational, as we will need Russia's cooperation to make anything like meaningful progress in the Middle East.  I assumed it was a mixture of [Sleezebag]'s fondness for people who praise him and their common reactionary kleptocratic authoritarian approach to government.  Same way as Stalin liked Hitler.

Quote

* Going out of his way to criticize the American intelligence community.

[Sleezebag] criticizes anyone and everyone who does anything other than lick his boots.  Including beauty queens and musicals.  Sometimes he will criticize party allies who have expressed less than unconditional authority, or even random foreigners like the guy currently in charge of Australia.  I have no idea who the hell is in charge of Australia, but [Sleezebag] insulted him.

Quote

* Going out of his way to point out he won the election and by how much, as if his legitimacy as president was disputed.

It has been, repeatedly and continuously.  He was possibly the most strenuously opposed president of the modern era.  Significant portions of his own party railed against him even between the primary and general elections.  And now we have #notmypresident and all that.  Also, he lost the popular vote.  Finally, he's well-known for his insecurity.

Quote

* Ignoring the daily intelligence briefings, in favor of getting all of this info from Flynn.

Part of a general pattern of refusing to recognize accepted protocol, often to his detriment.  Many times members of his administration have learned about his decisions from the press after he failed to notify them, for example.

Quote

* So, apparently the acting Attorney General informed [Sleezebag] that Flynn had been recorded talking to the Russian Ambassador. Potentially Flynn was illegally colluding and/or compromised by potential blackmail, putting both the [Sleezebag] Administration and the USA at risk, but [Sleezebag] left him in place for weeks until it came out in the press.

I'm inclined to chalk this up to a mixture of pigheadedness, laziness, general incompetence, and a fondness for keeping a tight inner circle.

Quote

First campaign manager Paul Manafort, and now Gen. Flynn have been dismissed due to ties, financial and otherwise,  with the Russians. Is there a pattern here?  For that matter, could [Sleezebag]'s refusal to disclose or divest his financial holdings have anything to do with ties to Russia? Could [Sleezebag] himself have colluded with, or have been compromised by the Russians?

Hell if I know. Do me a favor and re-read my bullet points in light of these questions, and let me know if some kind of a Russian correlation is the simplest and most likely explanation of these baffling behaviors, or if I'm on the verge of a crackpot conspiracy.

He has so many baffling behaviors that it's hard to spot a correlation between the thousands of points.  Which are meaningful?  Which are irrelevant?  Are any relevant?  We don't know.  That's his secret to success; in the information age, he can flood us with weirdness too constantly for us to stop and absorb it all in time.  Given the media's Captain Ahab levels of hostility to [Sleezebag] (which he earned fairly), combined with the leakiness and ineptitude of his administration, I'd be quite surprised if a real Russian connection existed and had been kept secret this whole time.  I don't know what Russia would have to offer, either, since rigging the election seems beyond their power and rumors of "compromat" would require something bad enough to actually embarrass [Sleezebag].  Which is possible, but in the absence of hard evidence I'm for sitting back and waiting for this idiot to destroy himself.  All will be revealed by and by.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: E_T on February 16, 2017, 03:01:31 PM

Quote from: BUncle on February 15, 2017, 04:16:31 PM

But my God; the fertilizer...

That's what hip waders are for...

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 17, 2017, 03:53:28 AM

 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzwHgeg5b2E#)


 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8suVjclu8Zo#)

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Bearu on April 03, 2018, 01:13:01 AM

Since the development of new methods and alleged authoritarian backsliding in China and Russia, the United States continues to develop a number of new foes around the world. The declining rates of living and healthcare in the country continue to cause a decrease in living standards, so the solutions remain to question the validity of the contemporary system. I hope the people develop the necessary solidarity and unity to tackle the serious issues of declining health indicators, declining education rates, transferring of real estate into joint housing ventures, and restoring freedom for the proletarian rights in the country.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 03, 2018, 01:32:43 AM

[blinks]  Actually I agree with every word but the fifth-from-last.

The book-communism doesn't impress.  I've READ Marx, but the term you wanted was "working people".

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 03, 2018, 02:30:51 AM

Re-reading the thread, whether crackpot conspiracy or not, I am now firmly in the camp. He hasn't changed his behavior,
 regardless of how many people he has changed, so it doesn't seem to be a case of bad advice so much as conscious effort.

Today I learn that while Britain was organizing and implementing multi-national closings of Russian embassies in response to the poisonings n British soil, the [Sleezebag] administration was operating a revolving door on Russian diplomats, and discussing a summit with Putin. They seem to keep on coming.

Occam's razor tells me there are too many coincidences that are more easily explained by a [Sleezebag]/Russian conspiracy.

“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action” - Ian Flemming

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 03, 2018, 02:37:30 AM

^This^.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Vishniac on April 07, 2018, 10:41:18 AM

That Russian story is pure bull, pure invention but the most impressive is how it suits the agenda of so many different people and group of interest.

To spare me the time of a long post, I condensated my thoughts into a single quote: that of a Soviet at the end of the Cold War.
"We are going to do a terrible thing to you--we are going to deprive you of an enemy."
And then I googled.
I didn't quite find something elaborated enough to convey all I think but this article from 2012 would probably be close. If needed, it can easily be adapted to represent today's situation.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-holshek/defense-spending_b_1472725.html (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-holshek/defense-spending_b_1472725.html)

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 07, 2018, 02:13:33 PM

Interesting.  The quote shows deep insight, whatever else the case is...

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: E_T on April 07, 2018, 04:22:34 PM

The New Enemy is [Sleezebag]!!

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 07, 2018, 08:03:34 PM

That was a nice read.

Title: Re: Where do you see America going?
Post by: bvanevery on April 13, 2018, 10:22:25 PM

I notice the sheer randomness of Trumpian policy and prevarication.  I wonder if it will actually have some unintentionally positive effects in some instances?  Sort of like deciding to embark upon a random evolutionary walk in a problem space.  It might be better to randomize outcomes, in situations that are otherwise stagnant.