Alpha Centauri 2

Community => Recreation Commons => Topic started by: Rusty Edge on January 22, 2017, 11:14:23 PM

Title: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 22, 2017, 11:14:23 PM
Actually, I hope that this thread sinks without need for revival. I started this thread because of the surreal beginning to the [Sleezebag] Administration. At a time when they could talk about anything they liked, such, as the laws and executive orders [Sleezebag] signed, or plans for the near future, they instead focused on making claims that were provably false, even calling an unscheduled press conference to do so, but refusing all questions. 

-inauguration-crowd-white-house.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/22/us/politics/president-[Sleezebag]-inauguration-crowd-white-house.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0 (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/22/us/politics/president-[Sleezebag)

New York Times
Politics
White House Pushes ‘Alternative Facts.’ Here Are the Real Ones.
By NICHOLAS FANDOS JAN. 22, 2017

WASHINGTON — Kellyanne Conway, counselor to President [Sleezebag], said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” on Sunday that the White House had put forth “alternative facts” to ones reported by the news media about the size of Mr. [Sleezebag]’s inauguration crowd.
She made this assertion — which quickly went viral on social media — a day after Mr. [Sleezebag] and Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary, had accused the news media of reporting falsehoods about the inauguration and Mr. [Sleezebag]’s relationship with the intelligence agencies.
In leveling this attack, the president and Mr. Spicer made a series of false statements.
Here are the facts.
1. In a speech at the C.I.A. on Saturday, Mr. [Sleezebag] said the news media had constructed a feud between him and the intelligence community. “They sort of made it sound like I had a ‘feud’ with the intelligence community,” he said. “It is exactly the opposite, and they understand that, too.”
In fact, Mr. [Sleezebag] repeatedly criticized the intelligence agencies during his transition to office and has questioned their conclusion that Russia meddled in the election to aid his candidacy. He called their assessment “ridiculous” and suggested that it had been politically motivated.
After the disclosure of a dossier with unsubstantiated claims about him, Mr. [Sleezebag] alleged that the intelligence agencies had allowed a leak of the material. “Are we living in Nazi Germany?” he asked in a post on Twitter.

2. Mr. [Sleezebag] said of his inauguration crowd, “It looked honestly like a million and a half people, whatever it was, it was, but it went all the way back to the Washington Monument.”
Aerial photographs clearly show that the crowd did not stretch to the Washington Monument. An analysis by The New York Times, comparing photographs from Friday to ones taken of Barack Obama’s 2009 inauguration, showed that Mr. [Sleezebag]’s crowd was significantly smaller and less than the 1.5 million people he claimed. An expert hired by The Times found that Mr. [Sleezebag]’s crowd on the National Mall was about a third of the size of Mr. Obama’s in 2009.

3. Mr. [Sleezebag] said that though he had been “hit by a couple of drops” of rain as he began his address on Inauguration Day, the sky soon cleared. “And the truth is, it stopped immediately, and then became sunny,” he said. “And I walked off, and it poured after I left. It poured.”
The truth is that it began to rain lightly almost exactly as Mr. [Sleezebag] began to speak and continued to do so throughout his remarks, which lasted about 18 minutes, and after he finished.

4. Speaking later on Saturday in the White House briefing room, Mr. Spicer amplified Mr. [Sleezebag]’s false claims. “This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe,” he said.
There is no evidence to support this claim. Not only was Mr. [Sleezebag]’s inauguration crowd far smaller than Mr. Obama’s in 2009, but he also drew fewer television viewers in the United States (30.6 million) than Mr. Obama did in 2009 (38 million) and Ronald Reagan did in 1981 (42 million), Nielsen reported.

5. Mr. Spicer said that Washington’s Metro system had greater ridership on Friday than it did for Mr. Obama’s 2013 inauguration. “We know that 420,000 people used the D.C. Metro public transit yesterday, which actually compares to 317,000 that used it for President Obama’s last inaugural,” Mr. Spicer said.
Neither number is correct, according to the transit system, which reported 570,557 entries into the rail system on Friday, compared with 782,000 on Inauguration Day in 2013.

6. Mr. Spicer said that “this was the first time in our nation’s history that floor coverings have been used to protect the grass on the Mall. That had the effect of highlighting any areas where people were not standing, while in years past the grass eliminated this visual.” 

In fact, similar coverings were used during the 2013 inauguration to protect the grass. The coverings did not hamper analyses of the crowd size.

7. Mr. Spicer said that it was “the first time that fencing and magnetometers went as far back on the Mall, preventing hundreds of thousands of people from being able to access the Mall as quickly as they had in inaugurations past.”
The Secret Service said security measures were largely unchanged this year. There were also few reports of long lines or delays.

---------------------------------------------------------

Simply put, the Democratic party has become a party of and for the cities, and few cities are more Democratic leaning than Washington, DC. Obama had overwhelming local support, and [Sleezebag] didn't. There's no shame in that. Neither is [Sleezebag] accountable for the weather. But if it wasn't raining, were those the tears of Jesus on [Sleezebag]'s coat or something?

[Sleezebag] had a great turnout in spite of it being a blue city on  a rainy day with protestors deliberately trying to block access points, but surprisingly, he didn't adopt that narrative.

I fear we haven't heard the last "Alternative Fact"
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: E_T on January 23, 2017, 02:23:30 AM
Likely going to be 4 years worth (plus his post reelection defeat BS) of this...
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Bearu on January 24, 2017, 04:29:03 AM
Simply put, the Democratic party has become a party of and for the cities, and few cities are more Democratic leaning than Washington, DC. Obama had overwhelming local support, and [Sleezebag] didn't. There's no shame in that. Neither is [Sleezebag] accountable for the weather. But if it wasn't raining, were those the tears of Jesus on [Sleezebag]'s coat or something?

[Sleezebag] had a great turnout in spite of it being a blue city on  a rainy day with protestors deliberately trying to block access points, but surprisingly, he didn't adopt that narrative.

I fear we haven't heard the last "Alternative Fact"
I doubt the thread will sink due to the inundation of the media with the outrageous claims of Donald [Sleezebag], and the ability of Donald [Sleezebag] to incite the population into a frenzy. Whatever happens in the next several years, the only logical response remains to endure the brunt of the asinine behavior, and the majority of the population will consider the general repercussions of Donald [Sleezebag] in pursuit of his agenda.
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 24, 2017, 10:06:06 PM
Uh, yeah...

Rather than use the term "lies", the media is adopting the term "Falsehoods", which doesn't make the distinction of intent along the spectrum of deliberate deception- delusion.

[Sleezebag] recently re-iterated that the only reason that he lost the popular vote was because 3-5 million illegals voted.
Today his press secretary doubled down on that one. When pressed as to why they weren't investigating such an outrage, he admitted that they still might.

While at the moment this is merely a groundless allegation, I think it's an "alternative fact" until proven otherwise.

-isnt-serious-about-his-3-5-million-illegal-votes-claim-and-this-proves-it/?utm_term=.f5597bea92ea]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/24/donald-[Sleezebag]-isnt-serious-about-his-3-5-million-illegal-votes-claim-and-this-proves-it/?utm_term=.f5597bea92ea (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/24/donald-[Sleezebag)

-is-indeed-lying-about-illegal-voting/]http://www.mediaite.com/online/here-is-the-proof-that-[Sleezebag]-is-indeed-lying-about-illegal-voting/ (http://www.mediaite.com/online/here-is-the-proof-that-[Sleezebag)

In the interest of fairness to our new president during his 1st 100 days, I offer the text of the FOX news article on the subject.

-tells-congressional-leaders-3-5-million-illegals-cost-him-popular-vote.html]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/24/[Sleezebag]-tells-congressional-leaders-3-5-million-illegals-cost-him-popular-vote.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/24/[Sleezebag)

Presidential
[Sleezebag] tells Congressional leaders 3-5 million 'illegals' cost him popular vote
By Samuel Chamberlain Published January 24, 2017  FoxNews.com

President Donald [Sleezebag] claimed at a meeting with congressional leaders Monday that he lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton in last November's election because between three million and five million "illegals" cast ballots, multiple sources told Fox News.
It is not the first time [Sleezebag] has made the unverified claims about illegal immigrants casting votes for Clinton, the Democratic nominee. In late November, [Sleezebag] tweeted that he had "won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally." At the time, multiple law enforcement sources told Fox News that there was no evidence for [Sleezebag]'s claims.
The president was joined by Republican and Democratic leaders from the House and Senate for a reception in the State Dining Room.
The Washington Post reported that [Sleezebag] spent the first 10 minutes of the gathering rehashing the election campaign. During that period, he made his claim about the illegal votes.
House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., alluded to it, telling reporters that [Sleezebag] and the lawmakers talked about "the different Electoral College, popular vote." Asked if anything surprised her about the meeting, House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said, "I won't even go into that."
[Sleezebag] defeated Clinton in the Electoral College, collecting 304 votes to her 227. However, Clinton won the popular vote by more than 2.8 million ballots cast. 
Others at Monday's reception included Vice President Mike Pence and top [Sleezebag] aides Reince Priebus and Steve Bannon, as well as [Sleezebag]'s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner.

Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Unorthodox on January 24, 2017, 10:28:03 PM
Thing is, Trumps not completely idiotic.  THERE ARE studies that have made the claim that theoretical millions of illegals are voting, and roughly 80% vote democrat. 

Now, the fact that those studies have been found to be flawed in retrospect doesn't matter.  They were published studies, so he DOES have a basis to believe that.

 Ironically it's the media that first put these studies forward as fact following Obama's victories before they were totally vetted, followed by their totally ignoring reporting on the fact they were found flawed, and now claiming [Sleezebag] has no leg to stand on.  Media created this particular problem.  (I'm looking at you Washington post and NY times.) 

So, yes, I can see why exactly [Sleezebag] believes the way he does on this issue.  Doesn't make him right.  Doesn't mean he shouldn't look at ALL the facts.  But he doesn't just totally make things up off the wall. 
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 27, 2017, 02:06:45 AM
This item isn't about Alternative facts. It's more of an amazing fact. Or if you remember that 60s newspaper cartoon "they'll do it every time" , this would be fodder for it-



"-42% of [Sleezebag] voters think he should be allowed to have a private email server to just 39% who think he shouldn't be allowed to. Maybe cyber security wasn't such a big issue in last year's election after all."

-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html]http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-[Sleezebag]-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Unorthodox on January 27, 2017, 04:18:01 AM
From Aro

(https://scontent.fsnc1-5.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16177582_10202557366293430_1789585630311373685_o.jpg?oh=17d20fd1a72553eec8da05e8b8455f49&oe=591FE493)
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Spacy on January 27, 2017, 08:22:56 PM
LOL, how is Aro doing?
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Unorthodox on January 27, 2017, 09:47:10 PM
Playing his horn and drawing the cartoons. 
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 27, 2017, 10:37:41 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/27/president-trumps-first-seven-days-of-false-claims-inaccurate-statements-and-exaggerations/?utm_term=.55f899389bb4 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/27/president-trumps-first-seven-days-of-false-claims-inaccurate-statements-and-exaggerations/?utm_term=.55f899389bb4)

The Washington post offered this-

Fact Checker
President [Sleezebag]’s first seven days of false claims, inaccurate statements and exaggerations
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Spacy on January 28, 2017, 11:58:21 PM
Playing his horn and drawing the cartoons. 


Cool.  Say hi for me when you get a chance. 
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Unorthodox on February 02, 2017, 01:48:47 PM
-counterterrorism-raid-yemen-inadequate-intel-article-1.2962081]http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/[Sleezebag]-counterterrorism-raid-yemen-inadequate-intel-article-1.2962081 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/[Sleezebag)

Quote
The U.S. military is looking into whether more civilians were killed during the weekend raid on al Qaeda in Yemen, Reuters reported.

U.S. Navy Seal William "Ryan" Owens died in the raid, along with 14 militants. 

U.S. Central Command said in a statement that a team investigating the incident had "concluded regrettably that civilian non-combatants were likely killed." Children may have also been among some of the civilians killed during the raid.

Central Command said it is looking to find out "if there were any still-undetected civilian casualties in the ferocious firefight."


U.S. military officials also said that the raid was approved by President [Sleezebag] without sufficient intelligence or ground support.
On Saturday, SEAL Team 6 raided a headquarters for al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, which is considered the most dangerous al Qaeda branch.

In addition to Owens's death, three service members were injured in the raid. A fourth service member was also injured when a U.S. military aircraft assisting in the operation experienced a hard landing at a nearby location.

The raid resulted in the capture of information that “will likely provide insight into the planning of future terror plots,” Centcom said.


Um.  why isn't this being drummed up more?  Especially right after he has eviscerated the intelligence community...
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 03, 2017, 08:29:15 AM
I was searching for information on "the Bowling Green Massacre" which my wife and I couldn't recall. Granted, there are times when we vacation from the news, so I resorted to the internet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/02/03/kellyanne-conway-cites-bowling-green-massacre-that-never-happened-to-defend-travel-ban/?utm_term=.cf16a2489d58 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/02/03/kellyanne-conway-cites-bowling-green-massacre-that-never-happened-to-defend-travel-ban/?utm_term=.cf16a2489d58)

"Morning Mix
Kellyanne Conway cites ‘Bowling Green massacre’ that never happened to defend travel ban
By Samantha Schmidt February 3 at 1:07 AM

Kellyanne Conway has taken “alternative facts” to a new level.
During a Thursday interview with MSNBC’s Chris Matthews, the counselor to the president defended President [Sleezebag]’s travel ban related to seven majority-Muslim countries. At one point, Conway made a reference to two Iraqi refugees whom she described as the masterminds behind “the Bowling Green Massacre.”

“Most people don’t know that because it didn’t get covered,” Conway said.
The Bowling Green Massacre didn’t get covered because it didn’t happen. There has never been a terrorist attack in Bowling Green, Ky., carried out by Iraqi refugees or anyone else.  "

---------


The article goes into an explanation of what she may have been referencing. It also includes some funny tweets in response.
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Spacy on February 06, 2017, 11:37:53 AM
So, in an alternate universe, I guess the Falcons did win!
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Unorthodox on February 06, 2017, 02:48:52 PM
So, in an alternate universe, I guess the Falcons did win!

Or one could suggest it's rather coincidental the patriots started a comeback as soon as Mr [Sleezebag] (who publicly predicted they'd win) got angry and left his superbowl party. 
Title: Re: The Alternative Facts Thread
Post by: Unorthodox on February 09, 2017, 07:40:08 PM
-putin-idUSKBN15O2A5]http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-[Sleezebag]-putin-idUSKBN15O2A5 (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-[Sleezebag)

Quote
In his first call as president with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, Donald [Sleezebag] denounced a treaty that caps U.S. and Russian deployment of nuclear warheads as a bad deal for the United States, according to two U.S. officials and one former U.S. official with knowledge of the call.

When Putin raised the possibility of extending the 2010 treaty, known as New START, [Sleezebag] paused to ask his aides in an aside what the treaty was, these sources said.

[Sleezebag] then told Putin the treaty was one of several bad deals negotiated by the Obama administration, saying that New START favored Russia. [Sleezebag] also talked about his own popularity, the sources said.

The White House declined to comment. It referred Reuters to the official White House account issued after the Jan. 28 call, which did not mention the discussion about New START.

It has not been previously reported that [Sleezebag] had conveyed his doubt about New START to Putin in the hour-long call.

New START gives both countries until February 2018 to reduce their deployed strategic nuclear warheads to no more than 1,550, the lowest level in decades. It also limits deployed land- and submarine-based missiles and nuclear-capable bombers.

During a debate in the 2016 presidential election, [Sleezebag] said Russia had "outsmarted" the United States with the treaty, which he called "START-Up." He asserted incorrectly then that it had allowed Russia to continue to produce nuclear warheads while the United States could not.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said he supported the treaty during his Senate confirmation hearings.

During the hearings Tillerson said it was important for the United States to "stay engaged with Russia, hold them accountable to commitments made under the New START and also ensure our accountability as well."

Two of the people who described the conversation were briefed by current administration officials who read detailed notes taken during the call. One of the two was shown portions of the notes. A third source was also briefed on the call.

Reuters has not reviewed the notes taken of the call, which are classified.

The Kremlin did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

CONCERNS OVER PHONE CALLS

The phone call with Putin has added to concerns that [Sleezebag] is not adequately prepared for discussions with foreign leaders.

Typically, before a telephone call with a foreign leader, a president receives a written in-depth briefing paper drafted by National Security Council staff after consultations with the relevant agencies, including the State Department, Pentagon and intelligence agencies, two former senior officials said.

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Just before the call, the president also usually receives an oral "pre-briefing" from his national security adviser and top subject-matter aide, they said.

[Sleezebag] did not receive a briefing from Russia experts with the NSC and intelligence agencies before the Putin call, two of the sources said. Reuters was unable to determine if [Sleezebag] received a briefing from his national security adviser Michael Flynn.

In the phone call, the Russian leader raised the possibility of reviving talks on a range of disputes and suggested extending New START, the sources said.

New START can be extended for another five years, beyond 2021, by mutual agreement. Unless they agree to do that or negotiate new cuts, the world's two biggest nuclear powers would be freed from the treaty's limits, potentially setting the stage for a new arms race.

New START was ratified by the U.S. Senate in December 2010 by a vote of 71 to 26. Thirteen Republican senators joined all of the Senate’s Democrats in voting for the treaty, although Republican opponents derided it as naive.

The call with Putin was one of several with foreign leaders where [Sleezebag] has turned to denounce deals negotiated by previous administrations on trade, acceptance of refugees and arms control.

In a phone call with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, [Sleezebag] questioned an agreement reached by the Obama administration to accept 1,250 refugees now being held by Australia in offshore detention centers.

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