Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Topic started by: Dio on March 17, 2016, 06:07:37 PM

Title: A discrepancy in the Economy, Research, and Psych Values of a base
Post by: Dio on March 17, 2016, 06:07:37 PM

I went through the procedure for the controls of Economy, Psych, and Research bonuses that a base receives from the presence of Network Node, Energy Bank, Hologram Theater, Research Hospitals Nanohospitals, Tree Farms, and Hybrid Forests. The actual values remain more complicated then the help descriptions suggest. The discrepancies affect the actual production of these resources at the base. An example of the discrepancy appears at a base with a Hologram Theater, a Hybrid Forest, and a Tree Farm. If the base produces 2 Psych from a doctor specialist and 0 psych from energy, than 6 would remain the outcome I think most people expect. The actual value that the formula provides originates from simply adding 50% of the base value three times (this produces a value of 5). I think the designers intended for this to occur, but it has the potential to mislead people that do not know this fact.

Title: Re: A discrepancy in the Economy, Research, and Psych Values of a base
Post by: Nexii on March 17, 2016, 06:59:08 PM

I'm pretty sure they meant for facility bonuses to be additive in nature, most other 4X games in the series worked the same way.  Though I would make the argument that they should perhaps be multiplicative.  Late game facilities cost way more minerals and only give a bonus off the base amount.  So they often take very long to pay off.  That being said, late game cities have a lot more population for the base amount.  It's probably not such a big deal that you couldn't just mod the facility costs to balance around this fact.

Title: Re: A discrepancy in the Economy, Research, and Psych Values of a base
Post by: Yitzi on March 27, 2016, 05:33:14 PM

Quote from: Nexii on March 17, 2016, 06:59:08 PM

I'm pretty sure they meant for facility bonuses to be additive in nature, most other 4X games in the series worked the same way.  Though I would make the argument that they should perhaps be multiplicative.  Late game facilities cost way more minerals and only give a bonus off the base amount.  So they often take very long to pay off.  That being said, late game cities have a lot more population for the base amount.  It's probably not such a big deal that you couldn't just mod the facility costs to balance around this fact.

If anything, late game facilities are cheaper in turns-per-facility than early game ones.

And yes, it's definitely intended that facility bonuses are additive.  (But project bonuses, i.e. Theory of Everything and Supercollider, are multiplicative.)

Title: Re: A discrepancy in the Economy, Research, and Psych Values of a base
Post by: Mart on March 27, 2016, 06:34:35 PM

The base of energy, labs or psych is in late game larger in fact:
1) Specialists points get multiplication by these facilities.
2) Biology lab, for example, adds 2 lab points, that also get multiplied by network node, etc.

And we also have more mineral output in late game, having mineral multiplcations too. Building all 3 of them, giving 50% we can have quite mineral rate, 250% of the raw mineral income. So late facilities should cost more. And also, we get in late game a lot of energy which often buys these facilities.
But better balance could be found.

Title: Re: A discrepancy in the Economy, Research, and Psych Values of a base
Post by: Nexii on March 28, 2016, 09:34:33 PM

Quote from: Mart on March 27, 2016, 06:34:35 PM

The base of energy, labs or psych is in late game larger in fact:
1) Specialists points get multiplication by these facilities.
2) Biology lab, for example, adds 2 lab points, that also get multiplied by network node, etc.

And we also have more mineral output in late game, having mineral multiplcations too. Building all 3 of them, giving 50% we can have quite mineral rate, 250% of the raw mineral income. So late facilities should cost more. And also, we get in late game a lot of energy which often buys these facilities.
But better balance could be found.

Advanced terraforming, commerce and satellites have more impact...specialists is a good point though in the late game.  Late game facilities still tend to have somewhat slower payback ratio.  You'd have to make some assumptions on typical base size (more specifically, base E/L production) though to compare.