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Community => Recreation Commons => Topic started by: Buster's Uncle on February 03, 2016, 02:51:46 AM

Title: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 03, 2016, 02:51:46 AM
Quote
Look out: Microsoft shifts Windows 10 to ‘Recommended’ update, automatic download
ExtremeTech
By Joel Hruska on February 2, 2016 at 4:12 pm


(http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/WindowsClouds-640x353.jpg)



Microsoft has been increasingly aggressive in its attempts to push consumers to download Windows 10. Starting today, the company is upping the ante once again. As of now, Windows 10 is now classified as a “Recommended” update, which means many Windows 7 and 8.1 users will download and begin the installation automatically.

By default, Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 shipped with updates enabled and a second box — “Give me Recommended updates the same way I receive important updates” checked as well. Plenty of users have changed these settings, but you can bet millions of people haven’t. We’ve written before about the power of defaults, and in this case, leaving automatic updates on has been a good idea for many users.


(http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Windows-Update.png)
Windows 7′ update control panel (Windows 8’s is nearly identical)


“As we shared in late October on the Windows Blog, we are committed to making it easy for our Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 customers to upgrade to Windows 10. We updated the upgrade experience today to help our customers, who previously reserved their upgrade, schedule a time for their upgrade to take place,” a company spokesperson told ZDNet.

There are several issues to be aware of here. First, users on metered connections must either turn off recommended updates or disable automatic updates altogether if you don’t want the 6GB download to count against your monthly limit. Simply deleting the file isn’t sufficient, your OS will download it again. Microsoft doesn’t recommend disabling automatic update, but the company has no solution for users who can’t spare the bandwidth to download the OS, but don’t want the update.

Microsoft has stressed that end users who begin the upgrade process will still have the option to say “No” before the upgrade begins, but I’m dubious of this for several reasons. First, we’ve already seen what Microsoft’s version of “No” looks like — it looks like this:


(http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Win10.jpg)
The GWX application interface. Note the absence of any prominent “No” button.


Microsoft made this change to the Windows 10 GWX application, in a patently obvious attempt to shove more users towards upgrading. The company’s opt-out for Windows 10 installation is unlikely to be much better. Even if it is, however, there’s still a larger issue — specifically, the people this upgrade is going to hit are those who are the least likely to know it’s coming.

There’s no way this doesn’t create headaches for at least some Windows users, as well as Microsoft. Some drivers won’t update properly. Some people will misinterpret the installation as malware, since Microsoft hasn’t historically updated its operating systems in this fashion. Some will click on “Get Windows 10″ without realizing that it’s an entirely new operating system that makes significant changes to how basic system functions work. Resetting system defaults to MS programs is going to leave some people thinking their previous browser settings or customizations are gone.

All of these issues are issues with any OS upgrade, but OS updates are typically something the user initiates. Microsoft clearly wants its entire user base on Windows 10. But think about it: This move targets use who don’t know enough to disable Recommended updates, but have also rejected Microsoft’s previous offers. This could create a nasty snarl of blowback if the upgrade push starts making life difficult for large numbers of people.

Microsoft has published a KB article detailing how end-users can control the upgrade prompts and disable them in the future, available here (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351).
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/222326-look-out-microsoft-shifts-windows-10-to-recommended-update-automatic-download (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/222326-look-out-microsoft-shifts-windows-10-to-recommended-update-automatic-download)



Guess who just turned off automatic updates?
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Valka on February 03, 2016, 06:25:58 AM
I turned them off, too. There is no damn way I want this contaminating my 8.1 computer.

I should check my XP computer, too, because I bought it precisely so I can play Civ/SMAC.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: vonbach on February 03, 2016, 06:39:34 PM
Thanks for the warning.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 03, 2016, 08:05:23 PM
;b;
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Eadee on February 03, 2016, 08:25:12 PM
Yeah thank you a lot.

It seems I indeed forgot to switch off the recommended updates after the last time I whiped the whole system and reinstalled Win7.

That was close.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Valka on February 03, 2016, 08:53:46 PM
I'm posting this on my XP computer, which I have just rescued from being summarily updated to 10 against my wishes.

Holy crap, it's weird using one of these again.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Valka on February 03, 2016, 09:20:05 PM
And now I'm back on my laptop and can actually see what I'm doing.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Unorthodox on February 03, 2016, 09:24:34 PM
My new machine is a 10, and personally have had no troubles...but when hEt tried to update her windows 8 machine it fried it...better let her know to flick that off. 
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 03, 2016, 09:33:51 PM
Microsoft really pisses me off with the always pushing a buggy and inconvenient new OS the second the old one's (finally) stable (if that) - this is going head-explodingly way too far.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: gwillybj on February 03, 2016, 11:46:30 PM
My Win7 laptop - replacement for my XP desktop that went toast on me - has the update icon sitting there inviting me, but it isn't going to happen.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Lord Avalon on February 05, 2016, 02:31:51 AM
GWX Control Panel FTW.  ;b;
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 23, 2016, 09:30:10 PM
Has anyone missed this and gotten burned?
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Valka on February 24, 2016, 01:03:05 PM
Not me.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Dio on February 24, 2016, 02:02:40 PM
I have had no problems with Windows after I decided to disable the automatic updates. :)
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: vonbach on February 25, 2016, 10:30:10 PM
All new machines come with it automatically. I'm curious if it even works.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 26, 2016, 03:22:53 AM
Has anyone missed this and gotten burned?

Uh.. Well I updated before this announcement. 7 to 10.

My machine was accruing bad sectors, getting sluggish, etc. I was trying to stretch it a little longer.
I eventually decided to go with 10. I think it helped.

HOWEVER, BE WARNED. THE DEFAULT SETTING FOR WIN 10 HAS NO SYSTEM RESTORE, A FEATURE PRESENT IN EVERY WINDOWS OPERATING SYTEM BEGINNING WITH MELENIUM EDITION !!!

Well, freeing up that capacity might account for the improved performance.  If you do get a WIN 10 system at some point, I strongly encourage you to look up online how to change the hidden  settings to restore one of the most important emergency features of a computer. Operating without System Restore is like driving without a spare tire.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: DrazharLn on February 26, 2016, 02:11:15 PM
Eh, I've never found system restore to actually help.

Quote
My machine was accruing bad sectors,

Do you mean that your hard drive is reporting bad sectors? If so, you should immediately replace your hdd if you have any useful non-backed up data - your hdd is on its way out.

Internal hard drives are cheap and easily ordered over the internet. A local techy friend or the internet can help you reinstall windows or clone your existing drive onto the new one.

I use win10 on my one windows computer and it works fine: it removes most of the annoying things about win8 and keeps some of the few useful changes.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 26, 2016, 05:30:44 PM
Eh, I've never found system restore to actually help.

Quote
My machine was accruing bad sectors,

Do you mean that your hard drive is reporting bad sectors? If so, you should immediately replace your hdd if you have any useful non-backed up data - your hdd is on its way out.

Internal hard drives are cheap and easily ordered over the internet. A local techy friend or the internet can help you reinstall windows or clone your existing drive onto the new one.

I use win10 on my one windows computer and it works fine: it removes most of the annoying things about win8 and keeps some of the few useful changes.

Thanks.

Yeah I figure it's on the way out. I'm just trying to stretch the machine, kinda like a car with over 200K miles. I've put some money aside and some data in the cloud. Really, my machine is mostly for e-mail, web surfing, games, and forums. I can everything but the games on my Fire, and those I have on Disks or STEAM storage.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2016, 05:37:05 PM
Installing an internal hard drive and cloning is not too hard to figure out with pretty basic mechanical/computer skills - and the drives are not terribly expensive.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 03, 2016, 02:49:59 AM
SO - the reminder thingy has been getting pushier lately, and I read that free downloads of the OS end on the 29th - I'm thinking that to be safe, I'm going to download in about a week.  I understand you can do that and not install, so I'd have the option w/o getting held up for Lord knows how much.

It makes me sore that I'm going to have to go to a new machine all too soon, and there's just no way I won't get stuck with this turkey, 10.  -It's just a matter, I figure, of managing to time it right that I've waited long enough that it's stable, finally, and not so long that they're already pushing the NEXT unstable OS that changes everything around.  I HATE! having to learn a new OS every few years.  Takes me a good six months each time to stop being constantly irritated...
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: E_T on July 03, 2016, 03:27:49 AM
Just be sure that the key for the download doesn't quit working after the free period is over...
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 03, 2016, 03:36:52 AM
If it does, I shrug and delete some crap hogging space on my hard drive, and hope I'm not sorry later.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Valka on July 03, 2016, 03:38:46 AM
I won't be getting Windows 10 until my next computer. There are far too many BFG games that won't run on 10, even though they're advertised as compatible. And my other computer is an XP on purpose, so I can play Civ/SMAC without having to tear my hair out over compatibility problems. I've disabled automatic updates on both of them.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 03, 2016, 03:46:56 AM
Base Fender Guitar games?
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Valka on July 03, 2016, 04:10:21 AM
Big Fish Games.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 26, 2016, 03:58:09 AM
So - I've messed around about as long as I can without getting stuck in a rush of people downloading at the last second - does anyone know of anything I should look out for tomorrow, like anything they don't tell me I have to do to keep the nasty thing from auto-installing?
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 26, 2016, 04:49:39 AM
Thanks.

Yeah I figure it's on the way out. I'm just trying to stretch the machine, kinda like a car with over 200K miles. I've put some money aside and some data in the cloud. Really, my machine is mostly for e-mail, web surfing, games, and forums. I can everything but the games on my Fire, and those I have on Disks or STEAM storage.

Still stumbling along, waiting for Firaxis to come out with specs for VI. Meanwhile, my machine will likely crash on the first attempt to save a picture.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 27, 2016, 02:25:35 AM
So - I've messed around about as long as I can without getting stuck in a rush of people downloading at the last second - does anyone know of anything I should look out for tomorrow, like anything they don't tell me I have to do to keep the nasty thing from auto-installing?
?

Well, I'll give y'all a little more time to set me straight, but I gotta do this tomorrow to have any hope of avoiding the rush...
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 27, 2016, 06:45:08 PM
-Okay, looks like no advice is going to happen, and I'm taking the plunge.

I gotta say that the big starting download screen that won't background or minimize while I do other things for several minutes already, just dots whirling in a circle, is a very unpromising start...
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 27, 2016, 09:26:15 PM
So, roughly three hours later, no change...  I assume it's doing what it's supposed to, but the complete lack a green progress bar is not inspiring confidence...

-Repeat: still the Starting download screen that won't go to the background or minimize, and what were they thinking if the thing's even working...
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 27, 2016, 11:48:37 PM
...And I don't think the stupid thing is working after pestering me for the better part of a year...
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 02:24:15 AM
It decided to actually work at 7:30, it appears, and now seems to have stuck at 99% complete for quite a while now.  What do they want me to do if this turkey is still at it in two hours?  I'd really hate to turn off my machine at this point, but I also don't like the notion of letting Bill Gates rifle through my cat pictures all night...
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 03:23:54 AM
But of course - it tried to make a liar of me immediately after that post and switched to "Preparing for installation".  That's coming up on an hour it's been preparing, and don't bother.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 01:21:40 PM
Preparing for installation took all night, it went from something or another when I got up to showing the EULA when I was sat down back from the cats, and tried to start installing anyway for several minutes when I tried to close the screen instead of accepting or declining.  -Then it closed on an second try and a control panel screen indicating that one update wasn't installed, and that gave me no crap about closing.

-They installed all the security updates in arrears first thing when this finally started working yesterday, six hours after I clicked on it, and when I woken up, I'm definitely going to have to make sure they didn't change my update settings before I shut down tonight.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Lord Avalon on July 28, 2016, 08:34:58 PM
I've read that Win10 forcefeeds you updates.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 08:42:54 PM
Yeah - I'm definitely making sure my settings are the way I left them -install only with permission, which some routine stuff apparently didn't wait for when it finally started working at 7:30 yesterday evening- before I turn off the machine tonight.  The aggression with which they've pushed this latest POS was unprecedented and to be defied on general principals, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Lord Avalon on July 28, 2016, 09:26:22 PM
Yeah - I'm definitely making sure my settings are the way I left them -install only with permission, which some routine stuff apparently didn't wait for when it finally started working at 7:30 yesterday evening- before I turn off the machine tonight.  The aggression with which they've pushed this latest POS was unprecedented and to be defied on general principals, if you ask me.

"Install only with permission" - I don't think that's available.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 10:02:55 PM
Something like that is what I already set it to when I found out W10 was supposed to download on its own.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Valka on July 31, 2016, 10:41:26 PM
So how did this turn out?

It's been really nice, not having that popup on my XP the last couple of days.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2016, 11:07:25 PM
I downloaded it and didn't install - that little white flag is finally off my taskbar, which is awesome, and I saw a headline this morning that they're charging $120 for the home edition.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Valka on July 31, 2016, 11:11:10 PM
Since I don't want it on either of my computers, I'm expecting that it will be part of the price of my next computer.

I wonder if I can dare accept updates now.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2016, 11:12:47 PM
That is an EXCELLENT question.  I didn't like missing security updates at all.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Lord Avalon on July 31, 2016, 11:32:06 PM
In addition to using the GWX monitor, I waited before updating to check what each update was, to see if it was Win10 nagware or not. If it was, I didn't select it. I did update for security, except for IE, which I don't use, and I read that they slipped a nagware bar in one.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2016, 11:33:17 PM
What's the GWX monitor?  Is that a program or website or what?
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Lord Avalon on August 01, 2016, 12:23:34 AM
Actually, it was GWX Control Panel, a program somebody made. I used it to delete Win10 related stuff that MS had put in updates. I guess I can uninstall it now.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 01, 2016, 12:28:46 AM
Huh.

Well, can't claim this hasn't been the most obnoxiously aggressive push behind the latest unstable Microsoft OS ever, and I go all the way back to the TRS80 Color Computer DOS "Under license from Microsoft" in 1980.

-DOS for the Coco was reasonably stable, actually; you just couldn't DO much of anything on it.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2016, 03:01:47 AM
Well; they spotted a good buy, Mylochka recommends, and this machine has gone beyond pathetic - I'm gonna be on W10 as soon as it's delivered, God help me...
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 06, 2016, 03:10:22 AM
Good Luck with that. I understand it has no default system restore, you have to switch it on.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2016, 03:14:43 AM
[shrugs] I've already had a horrible summer - now I have to learn a new OS.  I'll be a monster, soon.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 06, 2016, 03:35:15 AM
I'm using 10. . I just figured I'd be recycling this machine sooner rather than later, and I'd risk the loss in a crash.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 13, 2016, 12:15:17 PM
I love my new machine, with some reservations, but W10 still sux.  Can't find anything.
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: E_T on August 16, 2016, 07:04:26 PM
should be able to change the way it looks to a more classical Win7 look someplace.  XP had that and I have always used the older classical windows look for all of my boxen...
Title: Re: Windows 10: Big Brother is updating on you
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2016, 09:16:58 PM
...I'm finding it very annoying that some functions just come and go for no obvious reason in IE...
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