Alpha Centauri 2

Community => Recreation Commons => Topic started by: Rusty Edge on January 06, 2016, 09:36:56 PM

Title: The Unexplained
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 06, 2016, 09:36:56 PM
I lost my post for the Have Aliens visited the Earth? thread yesterday. It was kind of a tangent anyway. So here goes.

Worldviews-everybody's got one. It can be religious, scientific, political,  philosophical, etc. The trouble is, I don't know of any that have all of the answers, even though we very much would like to believe that our own does. Sooner or later, we encounter the  unexplained. Something that doesn't fit, but that doesn't stop us from either trying to make it fit, or denying and disregarding it all together. Preferable to do that than to change our worldview.

How do you interpret the story of Ezekiel and the wheel?

Was it an angel sent from God, just as he claimed?

Was it a space man/time traveler?

Was the poor guy psychotic from sitting in the sun too long?

Was he a huxter who found a meal ticket?


Likewise, people can look at an image on the internet and argue as to whether it's a ufo/ghost/angel/mirage/or a hoax.


My opinions have changed a lot over the years. As for what I believe now, the older I get, the more I believe in the human powers of self-delusion and denial. This isn't necessarily an education thing. It often seems that the PHDs are the most dogmatically invested in the status quo. They are reluctant to accept that their knowledge could be incomplete or obsolete, and too proud to say "I don't know". My point isn't that all PHDs are this way, just that no group of people is immune to the problem.

Sure, some, people are genuinely curious and open minded, but they aren't always such. We are all biased by personal experience.

Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: vonbach on January 06, 2016, 10:06:04 PM
Quote
It often seems that the PHDs are the most dogmatically invested in the status quo. They are reluctant to accept that their knowledge could be incomplete or obsolete, and too proud to say "I don't know".


Quote
Men in their arrogance claim to understand the nature of creation, and devise elaborate theories to describe its behavior. But always they discover in the end that God was quite a bit more clever than they thought.
Sister Miriam Godwinson, "We must Dissent"

Try reading the book of Enoch. Its interesting. The man was a astronomer "the sun rising and falling in gates" they are talking about a henge like at stone henge. It discusses the reasons that the flood was brought to the earth. The fallen angels had corrupted it.
It also mentions the name of the angel that seduced eve. His name was Gadreel and the angel that taught about abortion.
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 06, 2016, 11:33:08 PM
Alright, worth a try. I'll add it to my list.
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Valka on January 07, 2016, 01:55:58 AM
Link to these? Which edition of the bible are you using?
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: vonbach on January 07, 2016, 02:24:26 AM
Its not "officially" part of the Bible but it definitely should be. Jesus quotes Enoch.
The book of Jasher was kept out as well. You can get the book of Enoch on pdf
with a google search. Oh by the way the reason women always covered their hair
in the past comes from this book. Even up to the middle ages in Europe.
Its because women wanted to disguise their hair from angels so angels wouldn't be
attracted to them. The tradition just carried on and is seen even today in the Middle east.
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Valka on January 07, 2016, 02:57:43 AM
You want me to read this? Provide a link. Since there are numerous versions of the bible online I'm not going to play guessing games as to which one you're using. Yes, it makes a difference in how some verses are interpreted.
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: vonbach on January 07, 2016, 11:38:58 AM
Its a google search its not that hard.
Quote
https://archive.org/details/AllTheBooksOfEnochenoch1Enoch2Enoch3
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Unorthodox on January 07, 2016, 01:57:52 PM
The Mahabharata is another interesting ancient source of what the hell is going on there?  You can interpret these things lots of ways.  Which is why I don't bother too much with the old crap.  It's so far removed, so interpretive that we simply can't figure it out now. 


As for THE UNEXPLAINED:

It's no secret I love the topic. 

I've been responsible for people believing locations were haunted.  I've pulled off "the impossible" a number of times through illusion and trickery and misdirection.  I rarely explain to the intended audience, either. 

I've experienced a few things I can't explain over the years, and a lot of "unexplained" things that I doggedly pursue till I get to the bottom of them.  It's like that owl I found last year, people wondering why I was bothering trying to figure out what I had seen, I'm just naturally curious that way.  So, I'm at the very least open minded. 

Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Valka on January 07, 2016, 03:17:26 PM
Its a google search its not that hard.
Quote
https://archive.org/details/AllTheBooksOfEnochenoch1Enoch2Enoch3
It's this thing called "courtesy" to link to something if you want people to read it or watch it. "Google it yourself" is rude.

The PDF is 119 pages long. I take it you expect me to read the whole thing, rather than specific sections?
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 07, 2016, 06:56:10 PM
As for THE UNEXPLAINED:
 So, I'm at the very least open minded.

Yes, I have to agree you are, contrary to the generalization of my thread.  I must admit that some days I have trouble sorting out your argumentative mood/Devil's advocate role from your personal opinions. Well, maybe that would be easier face to face than on the internet.
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Unorthodox on January 07, 2016, 08:22:34 PM
Yes, I have to agree you are, contrary to the generalization of my thread.  I must admit that some days I have trouble sorting out your argumentative mood/Devil's advocate role from your personal opinions. Well, maybe that would be easier face to face than on the internet.

Probably not easier.  I was just taking the devil's advocate with my son to help his homework the other day, and he thought I was serious.  But, just ask, and I'll happily tell you which is which. 

As for Aliens:  I'm undecided. 

99% of UFO sightings are a hoax/mistake.  I've witnessed many misidentifications, and perpetrated hoaxes myself.  But, I find there's something about the abduction stories that coincides far too closely with a personal event I try not to dwell on.  One of very few recurring nightmares that I don't need to be sick to have. 
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: vonbach on January 07, 2016, 08:41:51 PM
Quote
It's this thing called "courtesy" to link to something if you want people to read it or watch it. "Google it yourself" is rude.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Sorry if I came across as rude but it wasn't my intent.
Quote
The PDF is 119 pages long. I take it you expect me to read the whole thing, rather than specific sections?
I did. Old testament literature is a bit of a slog. There are three whole books that survive btw.
Quote
The Mahabharata is another interesting ancient source of what the hell is going on there?
Thats another one thats interesting.
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 07, 2016, 09:31:07 PM
I once read about a hoax somebody did with some helium, a small model dirigible and some Christmas lights and a battery. There were many reported sightings of a "UFO". All well and fine. Literally that's what it was.

The memorable part of it was the reports of alien interaction. One woman reported that the UFO immobilized her with a beam of colored light. Apparently there is some psychology at work.

My "pet" theory of Alien abduction is that the "grays" are actually what people think they see/remember when their housecats get face to face with them at 3AM, and they dream about those odd shaped heads with the big eyes. Then they talk about it to others, who can relate something similar.

I think a lot of UFO sightings were actually reflections. That explains the ability to suddenly accelerate across the sky impossibly fast, and to materialize and vanish in an instant. Or for that matter, shadows.  I sighted a UFO a couple times one day decades ago, but I've since decided that what I saw was a reflection from a polished aluminum airplane near the airport on the other side of the ridge. That's why it was silent, even though it appeared close, and had no wings.

I also think that there was a Victor/Victoria effect. ( A woman pretending to be a man pretending to a be a woman. Nobody will believe that HE's a Polish count!) . Government denials of alien UFO activity was the perfect accidental distraction from sightings of secret weapon and aerospace tests in the dessert.




Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: vonbach on January 07, 2016, 09:42:03 PM
I've heard virtually every UFO story known to man really. The first I know of spoke of an older couple that got stopped on the road by a UFO. They were met by a man that got out of it with a uniform and spoke with a foreign accent. The "Grey" stories came later.
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Unorthodox on January 07, 2016, 09:50:52 PM
I once read about a hoax somebody did with some helium, a small model dirigible and some Christmas lights and a battery. There were many reported sightings of a "UFO". All well and fine. Literally that's what it was.

$12 at your local dollar store, and you can get UFO reports. 

Buy up 10 of the shiny mylar balloons, and 2 glow sticks (the necklaces).  The mylar reflects the glow sticks and makes it look big.  Random movement, all sorts of fun.  4th of July is a good time.  Lots of folks out after dark looking at the sky...

Quote
The memorable part of it was the reports of alien interaction. One woman reported that the UFO immobilized her with a beam of colored light. Apparently there is some psychology at work.

My "pet" theory of Alien abduction is that the "grays" are actually what people think they see/remember when their housecats get face to face with them at 3AM, and they dream about those odd shaped heads with the big eyes. Then they talk about it to others, who can relate something similar.

Don't think so.  Maybe I'll type mine up someday. 

Quote
I think a lot of UFO sightings were actually reflections. That explains the ability to suddenly accelerate across the sky impossibly fast, and to materialize and vanish in an instant. Or for that matter, shadows.  I sighted a UFO a couple times one day decades ago, but I've since decided that what I saw was a reflection from a polished aluminum airplane near the airport on the other side of the ridge. That's why it was silent, even though it appeared close, and had no wings.

I also think that there was a Victor/Victoria effect. ( A woman pretending to be a man pretending to a be a woman. Nobody will believe that HE's a Polish count!) . Government denials of alien UFO activity was the perfect accidental distraction from sightings of secret weapon and aerospace tests in the dessert.

I saw both the stealth fighter and bomber before they were officially added to the arsenal.  At the time, there was lots of "flying triangle" UFO sightings.  I'm 100% positive those sightings were just the planes. 

My favorite UFO was on the news.  It was, I admit, one of the most unusual things I've ever seen.  People were pulled over all along the freeway taking pics.  I was in a hurry.  Couple miles down the road, angle changed, could see it was a plane.  But it sure didn't LOOK like it from the one angle.  Some weird optics at work. 
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 07, 2016, 10:11:26 PM
Once in a while light and  atmospherics play some weird tricks. Look up the wiki of mirage.

I once saw the mountains where I lived double their height. We drove the whole way down the valley, and the familiar features where their, but BIGGER. Full moon, ice glaze, and a temperature inversion. Probably the weirdest and most sustained thing I ever saw, but couldn't explain.
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: vonbach on January 08, 2016, 11:56:54 AM
Quote
[Chapter 62]
1 And thus the Lord commanded the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who dwell on the earth, and said:
' Open your eyes and lift up your horns if ye are able to recognize the Elect One.'
2 And the Lord of Spirits seated him on the throne of His glory,
And the spirit of righteousness was poured out upon him,
And the word of his mouth slays all the sinners,
And all the unrighteous are destroyed from before his face.
3 And there shall stand up in that day all the kings and the mighty,
And the exalted and those who hold the earth,
And they shall see and recognize How he sits on the throne of his glory,
And righteousness is judged before him,
And no lying word is spoken before him.
4 Then shall pain come upon them as on a woman in travail,
[And she has pain in bringing forth]
When her child enters the mouth of the womb,
And she has pain in bringing forth.
5 And one portion of them shall look on the other,
And they shall be terrified,
And they shall be downcast of countenance,
And pain shall seize them,
When they see that Son of Man Sitting on the throne of his glory.
6 And the kings and the mighty and all who possess the earth shall bless and glorify and extol him who rules over all, who was hidden.
7 For from the beginning the Son of Man was hidden,
And the Most High preserved him in the presence of His might,
And revealed him to the elect.
8 And the congregation of the elect and holy shall be sown,
And all the elect shall stand before him on that day.
9 And all the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who rule the earth
Shall fall down before him on their faces,
And worship and set their hope upon that Son of Man,
And petition him and supplicate for mercy at his hands.
10 Nevertheless that Lord of Spirits will so press them
That they shall hastily go forth from His presence,
And their faces shall be filled with shame,
And the darkness grow deeper on their faces.
11 And He will deliver them to the angels for punishment,
To execute vengeance on them because they have oppressed His children and His elect
12 And they shall be a spectacle for the righteous and for His elect:
They shall rejoice over them,
Because the wrath of the Lord of Spirits resteth upon them,
And His sword is drunk with their blood.
13 And the righteous and elect shall be saved on that day,
And they shall never thenceforward see the face of the sinners and unrighteous.
14 And the Lord of Spirits will abide over them,
And with that Son of Man shall they eat
And lie down and rise up for ever and ever.
15 And the righteous and elect shall have risen from the earth,
And ceased to be of downcast countenance.
And they shall have been clothed with garments of glory,
16 And these shall be the garments of life from the Lord of Spirits:
And your garments shall not grow old,
Nor your glory pass away before the Lord of Spirits.
[Chapter 63]
1 In those days shall the mighty and the kings who possess the earth implore (Him) to grant them a little respite from His angels of punishment to whom they were delivered, that they might fall 2 down and worship before the Lord of Spirits, and confess their sins before Him. And they shall bless and glorify the Lord of Spirits, and say:
' Blessed is the Lord of Spirits and the Lord of kings,
And the Lord of the mighty and the Lord of the rich,
And the Lord of glory and the Lord of wisdom,
3 And splendid in every secret thing is Thy power from generation to generation,
And Thy glory for ever and ever:
Deep are all Thy secrets and innumerable,
And Thy righteousness is beyond reckoning.
4 We have now learnt that we should glorify
And bless the Lord of kings and Him who is king over all kings.'
5 And they shall say:
' Would that we had rest to glorify and give thanks
And confess our faith before His glory !
6 And now we long for a little rest but find it not:
We follow hard upon and obtain (it) not:
And light has vanished from before us,
And darkness is our dwelling-place for ever and ever:
7 For we have not believed before Him
Nor glorified the name of the Lord of Spirits, [nor glorified our Lord]
But our hope was in the sceptre of our kingdom,
And in our glory.
8 And in the day of our suffering and tribulation He saves us not,
And we find no respite for confession
That our Lord is true in all His works, and in His judgements and His justice,
And His judgements have no respect of persons.
And we pass away from before His face on account of our works,
And all our sins are reckoned up in righteousness.'
10 Now they shall say unto themselves: ' Our souls are full of unrighteous gain, but it does not prevent us from descending from the midst thereof into the burden of Sheol.'
11 And after that their faces shall be filled with darkness
And shame before that Son of Man,
And they shall be driven from his presence,
And the sword shall abide before his face in their midst.
This part is nice. You cant repent after you're dead.
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Yitzi on January 10, 2016, 12:39:17 AM
I lost my post for the Have Aliens visited the Earth? thread yesterday. It was kind of a tangent anyway. So here goes.

Worldviews-everybody's got one. It can be religious, scientific, political,  philosophical, etc. The trouble is, I don't know of any that have all of the answers, even though we very much would like to believe that our own does. Sooner or later, we encounter the  unexplained. Something that doesn't fit, but that doesn't stop us from either trying to make it fit, or denying and disregarding it all together. Preferable to do that than to change our worldview.

How do you interpret the story of Ezekiel and the wheel?

Was it an angel sent from God, just as he claimed?

Was it a space man/time traveler?

Was the poor guy psychotic from sitting in the sun too long?

Was he a huxter who found a meal ticket?

It was a vision of the angels that carry the "glory" (which seems to be similar to the idea of a virtual-world "avatar") of God.
Title: Re: The Unexplained
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 27, 2016, 07:19:51 PM


Try reading the book of Enoch. Its interesting. The man was a astronomer "the sun rising and falling in gates" they are talking about a henge like at stone henge. It discusses the reasons that the flood was brought to the earth. The fallen angels had corrupted it.
It also mentions the name of the angel that seduced eve. His name was Gadreel and the angel that taught about abortion.

I chose a version on Amazon that compares passages from Enoch, I,II,&III with the Bible. At first it kept putting me to sleep.

But now that I'm about 60 chapters in, ( the part about the gates ) I'm starting to see it as something that completes the circle between Genesis and Revelation. I'm finding it more interesting now.
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