Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Topic started by: Trenacker on May 02, 2015, 09:47:32 AM

Title: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 02, 2015, 09:47:32 AM
Consider this your invitation to join in development of a “sprawling wargame,” a strategic simulation in the grand style of late historian Paddy Griffith set in the lush world of Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri.

Together, we will reimagine the story of mankind’s exodus from Earth and his journey from our solar system to the habitable planet of Chiron, a fictional planet in the closest neighboring star system, Alpha Centauri. This is the story of two expeditions. Two visions of a brighter tomorrow. Two odysseys, each with the same purpose, and yet different in almost every way. The first was a mission of discovery, launched at the height of our pride. The second mission was exodus: in desperation, we fled the world we had seemingly destroyed for one that might yet destroy us.

As a player, you will stand the part of a faction leader, one of several officers and administrators tasked with ensuring the success of your civilization’s greatest endeavor. Naturally, your convictions about what is required to ensure human survival on Chiron are utterly at odds with everyone around you.

Gameplay will focus on political, military, economic, and social interactions within and between the various factions on Chiron, also called “Planet” by its new inhabitants.

Neat Stuff
Some of the “neat stuff” associated with this game includes: faction profiles; faction dashboards; detailed orders of battle (platoon-level); a much-expanded, and a graphics-enhanced tech tree that allows players to research both practical subjects (e.g., neuroscience) and theoretical matters (e.g., doctrines) in parallel. There will also be plenty of communal and individual events for players to deal with as they see fit, a la the Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis series.

I have been working with BUncle to create traditional faction profiles for the new factions specific to this game. Expect a lot of neat “swag” to help you immerse yourselves in the gameplay experience.

The Mechanics
Gameplay mechanics combine elements of so-called “matrix games,” the brainchild of game designer Chris Engle, and popular types of roleplaying game. Aside from the shared win condition (survival), each player receives a set of optional objectives specific to their faction. A referee provides a narrative to set the stage for action and supplements this narrative with play aids (such as faction profiles) that describe the resources available to each player at any given point in time. Players choose to execute a set of tasks and provide a given number of rationales explaining why they ought to be successful. The referee then considers the logic of those rationales, the choices made by other players, and certain other dynamic factors to determine the results.

Players will first describe what they intend (the objective), explaining with as much precision as possible how the objective is to be achieved (the method). In cases where the outcome might be in doubt, players will also identify contributing factors toward a positive outcome (the rationale) that the referees will consider during adjudication (e.g., “My troops are combat veterans”). The strength of rationales is considered in light of each faction’s particular capabilities as well as the quality and quantity of resources applied, all of which affect the speed, extent, and likelihood of success. For each action, the referee will set a secret difficulty threshold that must be overcome. That threshold will vary depending upon the quality of the players’ arguments.

The unique capabilities of every faction are expressed in terms of “pips.” Pips are abstractions of each factions’ strengths and weaknesses in a given area of endeavor, reflecting both resources and competency. You must weave a believable narrative and employ sound logic to apply your pips successfully in the work that matters most to you, the player. There are two types of pips. Attribute pips relate to specific core competencies (e.g., agriculture, research, industry) while “free” pips represent uncommitted resources. Players assign their limited pips across a given number of actions in each turn. Each “pip” committed to an action represents a die that will be rolled against the difficulty threshold for achievement. Uncommitted pips are automatically applied to counter actions taken by adversaries against one’s faction.

The Story
I believe that a detailed historical background can provide fertile soil for good roleplay. In a previous iteration of the game, players struggled to develop distinctive faction identities, a problem that I think resulted from the lack of any meaningful past to mine for clues about both their leaders’ personal proclivities and the reputations of others.

This version of the story deals with the fate of two missions. The Unity was in fact preceded to Chiron by the so-called International Probe, a scouting expedition launched a certain number of decades prior. Contact with the Probe colonists was inexplicably lost about one year after planetfall.

The Factions
Each faction is intended to occupy exclusive intellectual space. Ideologies should be traceable to compelling first principles that point to at least an implicit answer for every problem. Each faction must propose a different answer to the following three questions: (1) Why did human civilization on Earth fail? (2) Are there any fundamental truths in the universe? If so, what are they? (3) What is necessary to ensure the survival of human settlers on Chiron, called Planet?

For example, Nwabudike Morgan was basically making an argument that all human interaction could be understood in purely transactional terms. Likewise, Zakharov's obsession with knowledge reflected his belief that the universe was a fundamentally knowable place and that every problem could be solved through reductive study and the creation of some kind of artificial tool from materials at hand. What can be known, can be controlled.

Here are some overviews of new factions…

The Human Ascendancy is a Probe-era faction dedicated to eugenics and the forced evolution of homo superior, their answer to mankind's expulsion from his primordial home. They propose to accomplish this goal through superior understanding of both the human genome and the human brain. Their preference is knowledge, their aversion faith. Their government is a geniocracy. The Ascendancy typically operates a planned economy favoring education and research applications but is indifferent to the economic modalities of its neighbors. They tend toward opportunism and instrumentality in their thinking. This faction opposes restoration of contact with Earth on grounds that refugees can only speed consumption of Planet's limited resources. The Ascendancy's affinity is Purity: their image of human evolution focuses on "cracking" and suborning the genetic code. They reject images of evolution that involve the integration of human and machine consciousness even as they promote the aggressive use of highly invasive mnemonic techniques to speed the education and acculturation of fast-growing clones. The Ascendancy's leader is molecular biologist and Nobel laureate Dr. Tahmineh Pahlvai, a female from Iran. She was previously the expedition’s chief geneticist. Noted for her work on autoimmune disorders, Pahlavi was recruited to explore the military applications of gene therapy for the American Reclamation Corporation (ARC) on behalf of the U.S. Department of Defense. At the ARC’s recommendation, Pahlavi was appointed to the CIP with the task of initiating a long-term study of Chiron’s effects on the human genome. She soon clashed with mission leadership for her outspoken endorsement of geniocratic politics. This faction is primarily comprised of biologists and so-called “specials,” expedition members with genetic mutations classified “beneficial” by the ARC.

Concerns: I struggle with how this faction is much more than a spin-off of one aspect of the University of Planet.

tl;dr: Khaaaaaaaan!

The Hunters of Chiron are a loose affiliation of game managers, wildland firefighters, mining technicians, and long-range terraforming crews caught outside the main CIP settlement after a quarantine was imposed to limit the spread of plague. This motley collection was eventually consolidated under the charismatic leadership of the expedition’s chief game warden, former SAS captain and big game hunter, “J.T.” Marsh. A largely silent observer to the Probe expedition’s breakdown of leadership, Marsh wisely commandeered a significant quantity of survival equipment to sustain emergency operations after his men were refused re-entry into the colony. Their spoils included four of the expedition’s experimental repulsorcraft, which they continued to leverage as hunting and reconnaissance platforms. Marsh traded on his expertise in dealing with dangerous mega-fauna and successfully managing the growth cycles of xenofungal blooms to sustain good relations with most of the other small bands of colonists that survived the plague and obtain necessary supplies. The faction’s preference is liberty, its aversion luxury, reflecting its leader’s disdain for “soft living.”  Marsh is a male from Kenya’s Rift Valley.

Concerns: Is Marsh too like Santiago?

tl;dr: Clever girl.

The Estado Novo is a corporatist faction that combines elements of hierarchy and traditionalism in an essential medieval timocracy. In short, a fascist government that has implemented a rigid caste system spanning four estates: drones, colonists, Talents, and knights. There are generally gradations within each estate, usually by profession. Each estate is apportioned certain privileges and corresponding obligations. Thus, for example, talents are exempt from conscription while drones and colonists have the greatest amount of unstructured leisure time and the fewest stipulations regarding their rights to procreate. Knights may participate in the business of government but must provide military service. Priests are considered Talents. The Estado Novo's appeal arises from its guarantee of social and spiritual order in the face of potentially hostile outsiders. The faction's preference is order, its aversion liberty. Consistent with their religious values, they believe that Planet exists to be shaped for human requirements, and that cybernetic and scientific approaches to "solving" the human condition are fundamentally wrong. The Estado Novo tends to be more forgiving of ecumenical disagreement, however, and tolerates "deviance" so long as it does not stray into dissent. The Estado Novo is indifferent to contact with Earth. Their preferred economic model is the planned economy. Although economic mobility is extremely low in the Estado Novo, and hereditary distinctions are vastly important, they reject the command economy as deleterious to the soul and struggle to encourage private enterprise while defraying associated socio-political disruption. The Estado Novo is led by Dom Francisco d'Almeida, formerly Unity's Executive Officer, a male from Overseas Portugal. This faction explores the applications of divine right monarchy and feudalism in the post-apocalyptic environment.

tl;dr: Lords of the manor for a new Dark Age.

The Dreamers of Chiron is an alliance between Roshann Cobb, a corporate raider with a long history of espionage and Aleigha Cohen, a Harvard-educated neuroscientist responsible for critical advances in both brain-computer interface and “neural re-socialization,” a behavioral correction technique combining aggressive gene therapies and psychopharmacological interventions, considered unethical in many Western nations. The pair struck up an unlikely association during the final days of the CIP expedition when Cobb’s retainers provided critical muscle to assist Cohen in salvaging much of her record of rare mutations among the CIP crew; her recent work on shared, lucid dreaming; and the lion’s share of the colony’s dwindling medical research supplies). Cobb then established himself as a broker of drugs and “nerve” staple treatments – the latter in high demand by newly-established faction leaders who found that their new followers were not always in ideological lock-step – while Cohen redoubled her efforts to unlock the link between extrasensory perception in humans and mindworm phases on Chiron. Cobb is the Anglo-Chinese [progeny of unmarried parents] son of the tai-pan of a major trading company, is from Hong Kong. Cohen, born in Myanmar to a Baghdadi Jewish couple, was appointed the CIP’s Chief of Neuroscience through the good offices of the Russian and Chinese delegations to the expedition Steering Committee. This faction prioritizes returning to Earth.

tl;dr: Inception.

Other possibilities…

“The Children of the Atom,” a faction led by physicist Johann Anhaldt, chief of the CIP’s Atomic Energy Laboratory. A faction focusing on the practical uses of fusion power, chiefly interested in salvage from the original CIP settlement (as well as the Probe, which would have seeded the planet with supply pods). This faction is rumored to have recovered a functional supercomputer originally designed to help direct colonization. (Too much like the University?)

“The Beneath,” a faction dedicated to establishing hegemony over Chiron’s deep seas, led by an aristocratic naval officer-turned-naturalist. (Too much like a sea-going Novo Estado?)

“The New Two Thousand” are a group of pilgrims under the chartered leadership of former ARC head Oscar van de Graaf, a billionaire megalomaniac who spent $230 billion of his personal fortune to obtain billets for an expedition-within-an-expedition. He focuses obsessively on the fate of his “investments” and was a major thorn in the side of the original colonial leadership.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 02, 2015, 09:53:40 AM
To clarify, I am looking for members of the development team at this time.

I am especially interested in graphic designers who can help with maps, icons, and graphics for a planned wiki. I am also open to expressions of interest and faction ideas from players but cannot accept firm claims at this time.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 04, 2015, 02:31:23 AM
Anybody interested in helping with the technology tree? If so, I'm happy to share what we've come up with thus far. I'd like to pair each technology with an inset icon, sort of like what one sees in StarCraft.

I'm also open to having folks contribute ideas for factions. I'm working through ideas for a faction based on tribal -- familial, geographical, and other -- connections, from the breakdown of society, as well as a faction based on truth-seeking and media.

Inspiration comes from a number of sources, including Fahrenheit 451, Dune, Brave New World, the Fallout series, and history.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 04, 2015, 02:46:03 AM
Folks interested in learning more about Matrix Games should take a gander at this website (https://paxsims.wordpress.com/2015/02/07/revisiting-the-isis-crisis/).
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 07, 2015, 06:17:27 AM
A friend mentioned that it might be useful to share all the details that I've got on a particular faction so that I can invite helpful comment. Let's start with The Hunters of Chiron.

Name: Jeremy Tanner ("J.T.") Courtenay Marsh
Rank: Administrator II
Position: Head Game Warden
Country of Origin: Kenya
DOB: 04-10-2074
Height: 189 cm
Weight: 86.6 kg

Service Record
Born 2074, Rift Valley, Kenya. Educated RMA Sandhurst. Posted to 23 SAS Regiment during Second Kenyan Emergency. Awarded Victoria Cross for role in hostage rescue involving escape and evasion over 300km of bush.

Following honorable discharge (rank: captain), consulted for various private military companies and humanitarian organizations on wilderness survival, fieldcraft, and operational security. Implicated but never charged with violation of Kenyan and international laws governing skills transfer and mercenarism during Third Donbass War. Believed to have advised Igbo separatists prior to and during the dissolution of Nigeria. Later retained as security adviser to Biafran government.

Became sought-after guide of hunting safaris and overland expeditions worldwide. Among the first to popularize the breeding, management, and sport hunting of genetically modified and "resurrected" animals, including predators from the Mesozoic and Pleistocene periods. Developed reputation as world's foremost expert on management of prehistoric "mega-fauna."

Briefly advised International Genetic Technologies, Inc. (InGEN) of Palo Alto, CA on a theme park venture in Costa Rica. Later withdrew to accept a position as head of anti-poaching opoerations at South Africa's Kruger National Park. Leveraged combination of aggressive long-range reconnaisance patrols and drone technology to reduce incidents by 600%.

Invited to submit credentials to Chiron Interstellar Probe on recommendation of Col. Derek Hacker, British SIS. Appointed Head Game Warden over Russian objections. Received special endorsement of Board of Directors, InGEN Corporation.


Responsibilities include scouting, protection of surveying parties, and managing local ecosystem to facilitate development of the land.

Psych Profile: Hunter
Olympic-level athlete. Accomplished tracker and expert marksman.

Believes strongly that experience is the best teacher. Preaches self-reliance. Regards lack of physical conditioning as evidence of selfishness and indiscipline. Criticism of perceived indulgence in others contrasts with readiness to assume responsibility for the weaker and less capable.

Emotional "projector." Readily inspires others to follow his example.

Demonstrated ability to thrive in hierarchical environments, but possibility that strong personal efficacy and unusually high risk appetite have diminished awareness of deficiencies in the leadership of his superiors. Past subordinates praised subject's personal courage and interest in the well-being of his men but expressed frustration that their misgivings about particular operations were rarely addressed. Subject was known to accept missions without exploring the nature and quality of available support.

Status
Marsh and approximately 250 members of the CIP's survey corps were conducting long-range reconnaissance at the time that plague was first diagnosed in the main settlement. As a result, most were able to avoid exposure. Marsh immediately brought various outlying mining camps and terraforming crews under his command and established a new base-of-operations well upwind of the original colony site.

During the many instances of disagreement among the colony's civilian and military leadership, Marsh was a stanch, if silent, loyalist, obeying the directives of the expedition's appointed command staff without complaint. The Game Warden suffered considerable criticism for his controversial role in executing controlled burns of xenofungal growth around the primary settlement, a strategy opposed by many colonists on grounds that it could be environmentally reductive. Despite also playing a key role in managing early mindworm boils -- dozens of personnel under his direct command were killed in unexpected encounters during the first months on-Planet, Marsh was nevertheless frequently absent from the colony on surveying and scouting missions and never enjoyed the private confidence of mission leadership, with whom his informal style presented a sharp contrast.

Most of Marsh's people are roughnecks, pioneers, and field agronomists. He was lucky to be able to recruit a handful of mechanics attached to the odd overland convoy and mining rig. A majority of the Hunters are certified in austere emergency response and wildland firefighting. However, the faction is almost entirely without professional scientists, engineers, or bureaucrats, to say nothing of women and children (only a very small number of which were taken on during absorption of outlying resource-gathering operations).

Marsh maneuvered clear of many of the partisan conflicts that continued to rage after the primary settlement failed, offering his services as an environmental "fixer" to any who could pay. He does most of his trading at Hardacre's outpost.

Agenda: Leverage knowledge of Chiron biome to barter for resources essential to survival.
Values: The thrill of the hunt.
Free Tech: Doctrine: Initiative
Research Focus: Explore
Founding Base: High Hide

"Architects tell us that form follows function, but the man in the bush knows that function must needs follow form. We are now, through a combination of indolence and indulgence, abandoning mastery of our form. Motion and excellence -- progress -- have somehow become inconveniences, better left to machines." - J.T. Marsh, "The Hunters of Chiron"
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 07, 2015, 11:22:20 PM
(Trenacker's looking for help with the faction stats.  He's obviously got a good grip on the story/background part.)

There are also Firaxis-style faction webpages in the works...
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 08, 2015, 06:51:27 AM
The New Two Thousand

Name: Oscar van de Graaf
Rank: Administrator VI
Position: Proprietor
Country of Origin: United States
DOB: 02-21-2065
Height: 187 cm
Weight: 85.3 kg

Service Record
Born 2065, Cincinnati, OH, United States, heir to multiple fortunes in rail logistics, petrochemicals, and manufacturing. Descended from Spanish explorer Hernando de Soto. Read history at Trinity College, U. of Cambridge before obtaining a juris doctor from Yale Law School.

Interests include extreme sports (power gliding, motocross). Five-time America's Cup winner.

Personal wealth reduced by nine-tenths during Holnist Wars. Founded American Reclamation Corporation (ARC) in 20XX to pursue war contracts west of the Mississippi. Company specialized in providing operational support to federal and state government agencies conducting disaster relief and peacekeeping missions. Services included armed escort as well as training, logistics, and planning assistance. Pioneered strategy of deploying industrial security forces to protect clinics, aid convoys, and distribution centers even when operated by competitors. Consensus among historians is that subject leveraged corporate assets and government affiliation to wage private war against Holnists, openly coordinating with regular military. Orchestrated independent liberation of Utah from survivalist militias in 20XX, cooperating with Nauvoo Legion.

Subject made two bids for elected office between 20XX and 20XX, seeking first a senate seat in Louisiana, then the office of President of the United States. "American Restoration" party polled third behind Democrats and Republicans with 23% of the vote, defeating far-right Conservative Party. Continued to bankroll handpicked candidates after personal departure from campaign trail.

CAUTION: Numerous allegations that ARC regional administrators endorsed debt peonage and other forms of human slavery practiced by allied militias and neutral settlements during periods of corporate stewardship of "rebellious" territories preceding the readmittance of certain western states to the Union. Various media outlets also investigated ARC "company towns," concurrently uncovering evidence of systematic abuses of workers' rights. Subject issued repeated public statements apparently indicating approval for contract and debt servitude, which he attempted to distinguish from chattel slavery, before ARC reached a $408.5 billion settlement with the U.S. Government.

Following Reconstruction, led ARC in successful entry to civilian aerospace industry, with focus on zero-gravity resource extraction. Obtained exclusive contracts to service mining and terraformation projects on Jovian moons. First civilian to visit Asteroid Belt.

Successfully, and controversially, lobbied for Congressional buy-out of ARC stock on favorable terms in 20XX. Later nominated as first chairman of the ARC in its new form as a quasi-independent federal corporation, supervising U.S. reconstruction. Oversaw ARC participation in Vault Project from outset.

Leading proponent of extra-terrestreal colonization. Contributed $232 billion to obtain one of fifteen billets reserved for proprietors aboard Chiron Interstellar Probe as a means to demonstrate viability of such ventures. Personally interviewed and recruited the three hundred "stakeholding" families chosen to populate his new colony. Additionally, secured the services of dozens of world-class experts in a variety of fields (e.g., mining, surveying, agronomy) in direct competition with CIP.

Committed to allow expedition leadership the free command of his settlers and equipment for up to two years after the date of Planetfall, at which point additional colonies would be founded.

Psych Profile: Empresario
Impulsive, personalistic leadership style. Unusual appetite for physical danger.

Susceptible to vainglory, megalomania.

Pedantic, but record of business dealings indicates purely instrumental attitude toward the law.

Disinclination toward delegation of responsibilities parallels keen appetite for detail. With small inner circle, indicative of limited trust in others.

Believes that experience is the best teacher and encourages subordinates to take risks.

Obessive concern for proper sequestration of ARC equipment and personnel from that of the expedition proper.

Possibility that determination to develop ARC colony as business venture will cause tension with settler population.

Status
Never comfortable with "his" assets at the disposal of the expedition writ large, van de Graaf clashed early and often with the command staff in his pursuit of increased authority despite his private conclusion that many of their decisions were ultimately sound. This rift, present from the moment of Planetfall, widened substantially when dozens of contractors originally recruited by the ARC were assigned by mission command to extended tours of duty outside the main settlement. Van de Graaf's suspicion that his investment would not be recouped only increased when several contract staff were killed by mindworm boils or in industrial accidents. Thereafter, van de Graaf was frequently accused by expedition leadership of fomenting insubordination among contract personnel to further his own agenda.

Outspoken in his belief that different treatment should be afforded the free and unfree segments of the expedition. Despite lobbying strongly for the use of resocialized labor (which he hoped would reduce overall demand for labor), van de Graaf later insisted that medical care should be withheld from prisoners in favor of prioritizing resources for "free colonists."

Among the first to propose abandonment of the primary colony as plague control measure. Attempts to consolidate original colonists and equipment were frustrated by competition with other leaders, several of which succeeded in luring away personnel under contract or else commandeering ARC machinery and supplies.

Eventually established a new settlement, Terra Nova, on a proprietary model similar to his original vision. It is rumored that the terms of settlement for those not members of the original expedition were exceptionally onerous.

Agenda: Recoup ARC investment to demonstrate viability of colonial ventures on Chiron.
Values: Independence
Free Tech: Doctrine: Expand
Research Focus: Command
Founding Base: Terra Nova

"The cornerstone of the American dream is each man's inalienable right to the enjoyment of his own property. This notion is enshrined in the law. It was sanctified by the blood of our ancestors. A man's land, it is his patrimony. A man's possessions, they are a part of his legacy. In society, my property cannot be taxed but I am given a say in how those proceeds are spent. My property cannot be seized but I am given fair value in return.

We had a written agreement, Quoyle and myself. My property -- my people -- were subject to his writ for two years, reverting to my sole possession, free and clear, at the conclusion of that period. The purpose of that agreement was to secure the future of a unified colony. Well now Quoyle and that colony are dead. The contract is broken, my property scattered. I mean to recover that property by any and all means available to me." - Oscar van de Graaf, "Notes on Arrival"
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on May 11, 2015, 03:24:11 AM
Ok, I've been asked by the OP to check whether the new factions are consistent with the style of the original game, so here goes:

The Human Ascendancy is a Probe-era faction dedicated to eugenics and the forced evolution of homo superior, their answer to mankind's expulsion from his primordial home. They propose to accomplish this goal through superior understanding of both the human genome and the human brain. Their preference is knowledge, their aversion faith. Their government is a geniocracy. The Ascendancy typically operates a planned economy favoring education and research applications but is indifferent to the economic modalities of its neighbors. They tend toward opportunism and instrumentality in their thinking. This faction opposes restoration of contact with Earth on grounds that refugees can only speed consumption of Planet's limited resources. The Ascendancy's affinity is Purity: their image of human evolution focuses on "cracking" and suborning the genetic code. They reject images of evolution that involve the integration of human and machine consciousness even as they promote the aggressive use of highly invasive mnemonic techniques to speed the education and acculturation of fast-growing clones. The Ascendancy's leader is molecular biologist and Nobel laureate Dr. Tahmineh Pahlvai, a female from Iran. She was previously the expedition’s chief geneticist. Noted for her work on autoimmune disorders, Pahlavi was recruited to explore the military applications of gene therapy for the American Reclamation Corporation (ARC) on behalf of the U.S. Department of Defense. At the ARC’s recommendation, Pahlavi was appointed to the CIP with the task of initiating a long-term study of Chiron’s effects on the human genome. She soon clashed with mission leadership for her outspoken endorsement of geniocratic politics. This faction is primarily comprised of biologists and so-called “specials,” expedition members with genetic mutations classified “beneficial” by the ARC.

Concerns: I struggle with how this faction is much more than a spin-off of one aspect of the University of Planet.

tl;dr: Khaaaaaaaan!

I think it actually can be seen as a mix of  ;zak; and  ;yang;, essentially aiming for  ;yang;'s goals via  ;zak;'s methods.  An interesting faction, and one that could definitely fit in with the style of the original game while still having its own flavor.

Quote
The Hunters of Chiron are a loose affiliation of game managers, wildland firefighters, mining technicians, and long-range terraforming crews caught outside the main CIP settlement after a quarantine was imposed to limit the spread of plague. This motley collection was eventually consolidated under the charismatic leadership of the expedition’s chief game warden, former SAS captain and big game hunter, “J.T.” Marsh. A largely silent observer to the Probe expedition’s breakdown of leadership, Marsh wisely commandeered a significant quantity of survival equipment to sustain emergency operations after his men were refused re-entry into the colony. Their spoils included four of the expedition’s experimental repulsorcraft, which they continued to leverage as hunting and reconnaissance platforms. Marsh traded on his expertise in dealing with dangerous mega-fauna and successfully managing the growth cycles of xenofungal blooms to sustain good relations with most of the other small bands of colonists that survived the plague and obtain necessary supplies. The faction’s preference is liberty, its aversion luxury, reflecting its leader’s disdain for “soft living.”  Marsh is a male from Kenya’s Rift Valley.

Concerns: Is Marsh too like Santiago?

tl;dr: Clever girl.

I see it as somewhat like  ;santi;, but with a focus on "humanity dealing with nature" rather than "humanity vs. each other".  So in the game they'd probably have  ;santi;'s police bonus, but replace the MORALE with PLANET and bonus resources in fungus.

However, I'd say they probably need more of an ideological basis if they're to fit in with the original game's factions; "were stuck outside together" just doesn't cut it.

Quote
The Estado Novo is a corporatist faction that combines elements of hierarchy and traditionalism in an essential medieval timocracy. In short, a fascist government that has implemented a rigid caste system spanning four estates: drones, colonists, Talents, and knights. There are generally gradations within each estate, usually by profession. Each estate is apportioned certain privileges and corresponding obligations. Thus, for example, talents are exempt from conscription while drones and colonists have the greatest amount of unstructured leisure time and the fewest stipulations regarding their rights to procreate. Knights may participate in the business of government but must provide military service. Priests are considered Talents. The Estado Novo's appeal arises from its guarantee of social and spiritual order in the face of potentially hostile outsiders. The faction's preference is order, its aversion liberty. Consistent with their religious values, they believe that Planet exists to be shaped for human requirements, and that cybernetic and scientific approaches to "solving" the human condition are fundamentally wrong. The Estado Novo tends to be more forgiving of ecumenical disagreement, however, and tolerates "deviance" so long as it does not stray into dissent. The Estado Novo is indifferent to contact with Earth. Their preferred economic model is the planned economy. Although economic mobility is extremely low in the Estado Novo, and hereditary distinctions are vastly important, they reject the command economy as deleterious to the soul and struggle to encourage private enterprise while defraying associated socio-political disruption. The Estado Novo is led by Dom Francisco d'Almeida, formerly Unity's Executive Officer, a male from Overseas Portugal. This faction explores the applications of divine right monarchy and feudalism in the post-apocalyptic environment.

tl;dr: Lords of the manor for a new Dark Age.

Interesting, but it's pretty the same ideology as  ;miriam;, diluted by non-ideological considerations...it definitely does not fit in with the style of the original game.

Quote
The Dreamers of Chiron is an alliance between Roshann Cobb, a corporate raider with a long history of espionage and Aleigha Cohen, a Harvard-educated neuroscientist responsible for critical advances in both brain-computer interface and “neural re-socialization,” a behavioral correction technique combining aggressive gene therapies and psychopharmacological interventions, considered unethical in many Western nations. The pair struck up an unlikely association during the final days of the CIP expedition when Cobb’s retainers provided critical muscle to assist Cohen in salvaging much of her record of rare mutations among the CIP crew; her recent work on shared, lucid dreaming; and the lion’s share of the colony’s dwindling medical research supplies). Cobb then established himself as a broker of drugs and “nerve” staple treatments – the latter in high demand by newly-established faction leaders who found that their new followers were not always in ideological lock-step – while Cohen redoubled her efforts to unlock the link between extrasensory perception in humans and mindworm phases on Chiron. Cobb is the Anglo-Chinese [progeny of unmarried parents] son of the tai-pan of a major trading company, is from Hong Kong. Cohen, born in Myanmar to a Baghdadi Jewish couple, was appointed the CIP’s Chief of Neuroscience through the good offices of the Russian and Chinese delegations to the expedition Steering Committee. This faction prioritizes returning to Earth.

tl;dr: Inception.

Without a real ideology, it just doesn't fit the original style.

Quote
“The Children of the Atom,” a faction led by physicist Johann Anhaldt, chief of the CIP’s Atomic Energy Laboratory. A faction focusing on the practical uses of fusion power, chiefly interested in salvage from the original CIP settlement (as well as the Probe, which would have seeded the planet with supply pods). This faction is rumored to have recovered a functional supercomputer originally designed to help direct colonization. (Too much like the University?)

Too specialized.  Once they get Fusion Power (a midgame tech), then what?  There's nothing enduring there.

Quote
“The Beneath,” a faction dedicated to establishing hegemony over Chiron’s deep seas, led by an aristocratic naval officer-turned-naturalist. (Too much like a sea-going Novo Estado?)

More like too much like  ;ulrik;...and he's one of the thematically weakest factions already.

Quote
“The New Two Thousand” are a group of pilgrims under the chartered leadership of former ARC head Oscar van de Graaf, a billionaire megalomaniac who spent $230 billion of his personal fortune to obtain billets for an expedition-within-an-expedition. He focuses obsessively on the fate of his “investments” and was a major thorn in the side of the original colonial leadership.

Make him fit the style of the original game, and you'd essentially have  ;morgan;.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 11, 2015, 05:35:13 AM
The Human Ascendancy.  ;zak;'s proposition is simple. Why did human civilization on Earth fail? Fear of new technology on the part of the masses and craven acquiescence to "medieval" value systems on the part of their political leadership. What is needed to ensure survival on Chiron? Fearless willingness to embrace all of the "tools" provided for us by science. The Ascendancy are presumably in lock-step on both counts.  The divergences are beneath the surface:


;yang; was always the least-coherent faction. It was only many years after Alpha Centauri that I heard anybody talk about his association with the Chinese philosophy of Legalism. I always got the sense that he was the closest thing to Alpha Centauri's take on a latter-day monarchist. I guess I'm saying that I've never been able to define him to the extent that I have others. What is his governing style? Does he rely on advisers? Does he engage lieutenants? Is he simply Big Brother?

The Hunters of Chiron can be seen as partial Luddites. I think that they would be disposed to a non-hierarchical society characterized by equality to a much greater extent than Santiago. They would not be opposed to private property. Certainly they would not wish to raise children in common. Marsh's belief is that humans are increasingly lazy because of their dependence upon labor-saving devices. I think he is also prone to regarding humanity as the putative master of the physical worlds on which he lands, but in a sense beyond the mere exploitation of resources. I originally envisioned him as a piratical sort, preying upon "weaker" factions, but now I see him as something of a service provider. Presumably they would practice a kind of imprudent popular democracy, prone to impulsiveness and demagoguery. Almost to the extent that they would be constantly in political turmoil, a la the pirate crews depicted in Black Sails. A minor faction.

I've always thought The Estado Novo was the nearest thing to a traditional faction. The focus is on monarchy. Miriam's faction is about fundamentalist kritarky and what happens when men surrender to priests for fear of damnation tomorrow. The Estado Novo is more about what happens when men surrender to other men for fear of starvation or depredation today. The idea is almost Communistic: some get more because they (ostensibly) give more. But there are some who can be allowed more freedoms because their duty is less. Talents eat better, but Civilians can marry whomever they choose. The Knight is an officer by virtue of birth and upbringing, but he is only as successful as the milites he commands. The player can go about deciding how to further legitimate their monarchy.

The Dreamers of Chiron are interested in exploring the depths of the human mind. I think their proposition is that the next stage of human development will be in terms of the evolution of the brain. I agree that they get uncomfortably close to ;yang; in their exploration of the human psyche. Probably this faction will be a minor.

;santi; will be somewhat altered. I expect her to discover that the egalitarian and libertarian impulses of the Holnist crowd is simply incompatible with her much more disciplined plan for organized settlement.

The Beneath are intended to totally replace the Nautlius Pirates.

The Children of the Atom are designed to focus on salvage, hence the emphasis on the Fusion Age. Their main gimmick is their relationship to the salvaged computer core and what it represents in terms of AI. They need more fleshing out.

The New Two Thousand explore what it means to build something on the frontier. I know that distinguishing them from ;morgan; is problematic. My best argument is that Morgan is more representative of, say, a trading company while the New Two Thousand are a direct proprietorship. Morgan is about oligarchy and monopolization of trade flows across Chiron. The New Two Thousand is about one man and his desire to suborn weaker men to his own will.[/list]
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on May 11, 2015, 03:13:08 PM
;yang; was always the least-coherent faction. It was only many years after Alpha Centauri that I heard anybody talk about his association with the Chinese philosophy of Legalism. I always got the sense that he was the closest thing to Alpha Centauri's take on a latter-day monarchist. I guess I'm saying that I've never been able to define him to the extent that I have others. What is his governing style? Does he rely on advisers? Does he engage lieutenants? Is he simply Big Brother?

I get the idea that he would use any advisers who meet his standards, but I don't know if any do, and he's certainly willing to do it all himself if he has to.

He's not really a monarchist, more of an elitist.

Quote
The Hunters of Chiron can be seen as partial Luddites. I think that they would be disposed to a non-hierarchical society characterized by equality to a much greater extent than Santiago. They would not be opposed to private property. Certainly they would not wish to raise children in common. Marsh's belief is that humans are increasingly lazy because of their dependence upon labor-saving devices. I think he is also prone to regarding humanity as the putative master of the physical worlds on which he lands, but in a sense beyond the mere exploitation of resources. I originally envisioned him as a piratical sort, preying upon "weaker" factions, but now I see him as something of a service provider. Presumably they would practice a kind of imprudent popular democracy, prone to impulsiveness and demagoguery. Almost to the extent that they would be constantly in political turmoil, a la the pirate crews depicted in Black Sails. A minor faction.

Ah...essentially an anti- ;zak;, with tinges of  ;santi;.   ;zak; thinks that technology is the answer to all problems, Marsh believes it (at least as used to increase comfort and convenience) is the source of the problems.

An interesting faction, and one that fits in well with the style of the game but would (if played) need to use a completely different epilogue for Transcendence.

Quote
I've always thought The Estado Novo was the nearest thing to a traditional faction. The focus is on monarchy. Miriam's faction is about fundamentalist kritarky and what happens when men surrender to priests for fear of damnation tomorrow. The Estado Novo is more about what happens when men surrender to other men for fear of starvation or depredation today. The idea is almost Communistic: some get more because they (ostensibly) give more. But there are some who can be allowed more freedoms because their duty is less. Talents eat better, but Civilians can marry whomever they choose. The Knight is an officer by virtue of birth and upbringing, but he is only as successful as the milites he commands. The player can go about deciding how to further legitimate their monarchy.

The problem is that there's no real ideology behind that; the only ideological component is the priesthood.  Without a strong ideology, it doesn't fit.

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The Dreamers of Chiron are interested in exploring the depths of the human mind. I think their proposition is that the next stage of human development will be in terms of the evolution of the brain. I agree that they get uncomfortably close to ;yang; in their exploration of the human psyche. Probably this faction will be a minor.

That's still too specific...it's focusing on a few early techs, and just doesn't have anything once you've gotten those techs.

Quote
;santi; will be somewhat altered. I expect her to discover that the egalitarian and libertarian impulses of the Holnist crowd is simply incompatible with her much more disciplined plan for organized settlement.

;santi; was never libertarian.  Libertarians would have a penalty to POLICE, and she has a bonus.  She's not particularly egalitarian either.

What she is, is survivalist.  Humanity must survive, and that means being militarily powerful.

Quote
The Beneath are intended to totally replace the Nautlius Pirates.

Even so...the Pirates are a thematically weak faction as it is, and not worth replacing; if you're not keeping them, just ditch them.

Quote
The Children of the Atom are designed to focus on salvage, hence the emphasis on the Fusion Age. Their main gimmick is their relationship to the salvaged computer core and what it represents in terms of AI. They need more fleshing out.

I think they need a complete redesign, if you want something that fits the style of the original.

Quote
The New Two Thousand explore what it means to build something on the frontier. I know that distinguishing them from ;morgan; is problematic. My best argument is that Morgan is more representative of, say, a trading company while the New Two Thousand are a direct proprietorship. Morgan is about oligarchy and monopolization of trade flows across Chiron. The New Two Thousand is about one man and his desire to suborn weaker men to his own will.[/list]

What is his ideological justification for doing so?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 12, 2015, 01:11:18 AM
Again, thanks, Yitzi, for your terrific critique!

Quote from: Yitzi
I get the idea that he would use any advisers who meet his standards, but I don't know if any do, and he's certainly willing to do it all himself if he has to.

He's not really a monarchist, more of an elitist.

I think it is helpful to conceptualize all of the original and potential factions as trains at the marshaling yard. The original factions are all more-or-less of equal length. Miriam's, Zakharov's, and Deirdre's are probably the trains in which all the cars are full and balanced. Morgan's is right behind. Then one has Santiago's, and, more distantly and with many fewer cars, Yang's and Lal's.

The Believers are a fundamentalist kritarky with a violently evangelical agenda. Zakharov is simply interested in learning for its own sake, almost indifferent to exile among the stars. Deirdre hopes to lose herself in the fungus, both literally and figuratively. Morgan aims at monopoly. I assume that Yang is about forms of despotism. Lal's vision is apparently a technocracy, although in implementation he fails to avoid bureaucratic gridlock and the worst aspects of populism.

Regarding the new factions, it is helpful to imagine that I've swapped or added a few cars on the original factions' trains and then put them on specific tracks heading in specific directions. That is, I've sharpened their focus by deciding whether they are "played straight" or subverted. For example, if the University focuses primarily on materials science and organizes along a collegiate model, that opens up space for a faction like the Ascendancy, with its focus on evolutionary biology and geniocratic governing structure.

I made virtually no change to ;miriam; other than to revert to the original faction name (the Conclave) and specify a government type (kritarky, or rule by religious judges). They are aggressive, violently evangelistic, and opposed to restoration of contact with Earth, interpreting Unity's launch as the dawning of the Apocalypse. According to Miriam's teachings, the Unity crew are all members of the elect, conditional upon their acceptance of Miriam's teachings before the Judgment Day. Salvation depends upon a combination of works and grace: faith and acceptance of the One True God, manifest in specific actions designed to hasten the End Times. The particulars of Conclave philosophy, including its critical document, the Orange-Catholic Bible (an homage to Dune), are relatively obscure to outsiders, but, as in Dune, "the faith’s supreme commandment is considered to be, 'Thou shalt not disfigure the soul.'" Master theologian Allophilus Zeander, an early leader in the Evangelical Fire, provided the landmark exposition on the subject, contending that attempts to modify man’s mortality or to imitate too closely the Almighty's singular mastery of the Universe through science – that is, to employ genetic engineering or to develop “thinking machines” to alter the nature of the human condition – constituted explicit rejection of God’s Word. The Conclave's affinity is Purity: it is violently opposed to any practice that substantially alters the human body and mind, including gene therapies. Followers are encouraged to report, and often directly to punish, suspected “aberration,” including genetic “tampering” and use of cybernetics or chemical stimulants. Miriam tends to operate a planned or full command economy in the form of various collective communities, usually centered around agriculture, serving large temple complexes occupied by a dedicated priesthood. A substantial number of the Conclave’s population practice asceticism, renouncing material possessions and devoting themselves to pastoral lifestyles. The result is to substantially retard the faction’s scientific and industrial progress. However, in an effort to compensate for the Conclave's slow growth and relative technological "backwardness," the kritarky has authorized attempts to develop human "super-thinkers" essentially identical to the Mentats of the Dune universe, although their thinking capacity is the result of natural evolution rather than stimulants. Conclave society is markedly chauvinist. Because those who have rejected the Word of God three times are considered beyond Salvation, the kritarky has deemed nerve-stapling an acceptable punishment. The faction is also generally comfortable with slavery. The Conclave has a large servile population comprised of apostates, heretics, and prisoners from other factions. Naturally, Miriam is opposed to attempting restoration of contact with Planet Earth. She is also opposed to the cultivation of artificial life, which she believes tantamount to idolatry.

The big question for ;miriam; is this: how does somebody associated with a religious cult get assigned to a mission like this one?

I made no change to ;deidre;. The Gaians operate a democratic matriarchy dedicated to ecological settlement and symbiosis with Planet. Their preference is ecology, their aversion free market economics, their affinity, Harmony, or living "in dialogue" with Planet. They are opposed to contact with Earth on grounds that mankind poisoned its homeworld and pursue a command economy with a focus on agronomy. Like Miriam's people, Deirdre's tend to live in communal settlements. The problem in explaining the Gaians is how Deirdre manages to develop industry when it is obvious that her ideological preferences would effectively doom her economy from the outset. (We may be able to work out a partial mitigation by allowing her to trade crops and technology to factions like The Hunters in return for access to salvage, but that wouldn't do more than carry them through the period immediately after Planetfall.)

I've done a lot of work with ;santi;. By contrast with the hyper-survivalist militias commonly associated with the Holnist movement decades before, the Spartans are, in fact, a very different phenomenon. The Holnist movement was described by a constellation of local "prepper" militias, allegedly libertarian, that metastasized out of the anti-tax, religious freedom, and states' rights or "patriot" movements that first appeared in the 1990s. In practice, these were racist chauvinists with no more practical a program than running off the local assessor while stockpiling food, water, and, above all, ammunition. Certainly there was no framework for participatory politics: the militiamen lynched their own would-be political leadership as enthusiastically as they did any representative of legitimate government. Rather than aid their neighbors, they enslaved them. Holnism emerged as a coherent force just long enough to temporarily shepherd the American West out of the Union, only to collapse under the weight of its own internal contradictions. In the end, the hyper-survivalists were their own worst enemy. Many an early sympathizer who tolerated destruction of Red Cross shelters and National Guard depots later joined the Home Guard units that eventually assisted Federal troops in routing out the last stockades of die-hard secessionists just under two years later. Santiago was a later disciple of a more disciplined generation of rugged individualists emerging in the aftermath of limited nuclear war. Far from overthrowing an existing society, they in fact replace one, later warring with the much stronger remnants of the pre-war government until themselves exhausted. The Spartan creed, like the hyper-survivalist, favored the strong. It also called for martial organization and constant vigilance in the form of relentless military training. Yet whereas the Holnist was often content to squat in his own tailings and at least spoke paeans to private property -- when it could be kept from the hands of stronger rivals -- the Spartan creed demands far more comprehensive sacrifices in the interest of producing a society dominated by a warrior caste. The Holnists might indulge in slavery and concubinage, might play at the business of modern war, but few indeed would have surrendered their children to the common creche or opted into a society disclaiming all personal wealth for common property.  ;santi;'s challenge will be to sort the Spartans from the Holnists -- the what from the chaff -- in what remains of her strike force after Planetfall.

I have absolutely no idea, still, what to do with  ;yang;. My impulse is to maintain his commitment to Legalism. I suppose he was supposed to explore issues pertaining to consciousness and control. He was to be Big Brother, as it were. I think we can afford to be sharper indeed. I know this: Yang propounds a philosophy emphasizing three pillars: 法 (Fa), or law, meaning that the law is known, and obeyed because systematically enforced; 術 (Shu), or method, whereby the ruler holds himself apart from society and "special tactics and secrets" to obscure his motivations, reducing the opportunity for confidants to influence him except through their obeisance of the law; and 勢 (Shi), or legitimacy, which focuses on drawing distinctions between the ruler and the man. Of course, Yang is an enthusiastic student of surveillance methods and compliance enforcement technologies. I could nevertheless see him pursuing obedience through a combination of the lash and good, old Bradbury-style book burning than using drugs or other techniques to insert his consciousness directly into a shared reality.

In terms of the Hunters, it's less that Marsh is a Luddite than that he is determined to remain the master of the technology at his disposal. Unlike ;deidre;, Marsh is able to conceive of Chiron as a worthy opponent even as he understands that it is vulnerable to total destruction.

My sense for The Estado Novo was that it explores what some men are willing to give up for safety and security. It is a meditation on collective security. What does one do when there is no law? They submit to a stronger power. The priesthood, in this case, is a tool. Indeed, we might think of them as other than priests. Their role is to pacify downward and legitimate upward.

The Dreamers open the possibility, I'd think, of gameplay in a second, virtual realm. Again, however, I could see them as a minor faction existing to provide mercenaries and items to the player factions unless and until destroyed.

Originally, The Beneath included a meditation on colonial peoples. Without them, the faction is substantially less interesting, I agree. All they are is aquatic at this point. I had meant for them to embrace aristocracy to a greater extent than other factions, but it's hard to explain what good aristocracy does in a submersible colony. I'll withdraw them for now.

I might bring back The Honored Dead, a Chiron Interstellar Probe faction of United Nations Marines gone AWOL. They were an homage to the Marais rubber plantation in Apocalypse Now. This was when the backstory included an alternate history in which ethnic strife and colonialism remained significant issues for the Unity survivors.

The Children of the Atom are really the "E.T. phone home" faction, combined with a leadership that apparently takes their orders from a supercomputer. Yea or nay?

The New Two Thousand. Van de Graaf is an instrumentalist, but whereas Morgan has abundant emotional intelligence, van de Graaf applies brute force. Both are great capitalists, but van de Graaf is concerned primarily to convert his wealth to power over other men because he wishes to dictate their fate in a historical endeavor. Morgan is more traditional in his ambitions, preferring luxury. Presumably the Morganites are run by a merchant oligarchy, their society is over-weened, and their military comprised almost exclusively of mercenaries. Van de Graaf hearkens back to one of those Old West cattle barons trying to use the power of the law to compel other men to give up what their own sweat has earned them. He does this with the help of a retinue of private "colonial marshals" -- private security men hired for that purpose back on Earth. I imagine that there would be a lot of tension between the "old line" settlers who paid van de Graaf up front and have something to offer his colony in terms of valuable skills, and newcomers who will be expected to earn their way out of indentured servitude or some similar wretchedness. Does that help any?

Okay! Fire away again!
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on May 12, 2015, 02:46:13 AM
I think it is helpful to conceptualize all of the original and potential factions as trains at the marshaling yard. The original factions are all more-or-less of equal length. Miriam's, Zakharov's, and Deirdre's are probably the trains in which all the cars are full and balanced. Morgan's is right behind. Then one has Santiago's, and, more distantly and with many fewer cars, Yang's and Lal's.

What does this correspond to?  If it's game balance, everybody seems to have a different take on which factions are stronger and weaker...

Quote
The Believers are a fundamentalist kritarky with a violently evangelical agenda.

I see them less as a kritarchy and more as a theocracy.  (The two are fairly close when a state religion is the source of law, though).  (They can also be played as not violently evangelical, and such is even compatible with  ;miriam;'s quotes, but is definitely not making the most of their capabilities.)

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Zakharov is simply interested in learning for its own sake, almost indifferent to exile among the stars.

Indeed.

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Deirdre hopes to lose herself in the fungus, both literally and figuratively.

Not exactly; at the beginning of the game, I don't think she really knows what she wants, other than to avoid the ecological harm done to Earth.  Later on, she becomes Planet's advocate in council, and then helps it achieve its potential.

Quote
Morgan aims at monopoly.

Indeed.

Quote
I assume that Yang is about forms of despotism.

Not really.  As I see it, Yang uses harsh despotism (associated with the legalism that was apparently a major focus of the design idea behind him) as a means to an end, because he's been stuck with a population of which the vast majority are (by his standards) shallow, self-centered, unmotivated losers (basically, normal people).  In principle, he would have nothing against a democracy, if all the people were the sort of disciplined, enlightened individuals that he himself is.

Quote
Lal's vision is apparently a technocracy, although in implementation he fails to avoid bureaucratic gridlock and the worst aspects of populism.

I don't think Lal wants a technocracy.  Zakharov wants a technocracy, Lal wants a liberal democracy.

Quote
Regarding the new factions, it is helpful to imagine that I've swapped or added a few cars on the original factions' trains and then put them on specific tracks heading in specific directions. That is, I've sharpened their focus by deciding whether they are "played straight" or subverted. For example, if the University focuses primarily on materials science and organizes along a collegiate model, that opens up space for a faction like the Ascendancy, with its focus on evolutionary biology and geniocratic governing structure.

And the Ascendancy is done well.  The problem with the rest of them is that the cars you added in just didn't fit SMAC/X.

Quote
I made virtually no change to ;miriam; other than to revert to the original faction name (the Conclave) and specify a government type (kritarky, or rule by religious judges). They are aggressive, violently evangelistic,

This fits, except for I'd have rule by clergy instead of religious judges in particular.

Quote
and opposed to restoration of contact with Earth, interpreting Unity's launch as the dawning of the Apocalypse. According to Miriam's teachings, the Unity crew are all members of the elect, conditional upon their acceptance of Miriam's teachings before the Judgment Day. Salvation depends upon a combination of works and grace: faith and acceptance of the One True God, manifest in specific actions designed to hasten the End Times.

This does not fit.  Anyone who was that focused on the End Times probably wouldn't have gone on the Unity mission in the first place and risked missing the action (which, given the state of things, was clearly coming any day now, and probably already started).  Also,  ;miriam; just doesn't strike me as "End Times focused".

Quote
The particulars of Conclave philosophy, including its critical document, the Orange-Catholic Bible (an homage to Dune)

The homage is nice, but the Conclave Bible is mentioned too often in the blurbs to be worth removing.

Quote
are relatively obscure to outsiders, but, as in Dune, "the faith’s supreme commandment is considered to be, 'Thou shalt not disfigure the soul.'" Master theologian Allophilus Zeander, an early leader in the Evangelical Fire, provided the landmark exposition on the subject, contending that attempts to modify man’s mortality or to imitate too closely the Almighty's singular mastery of the Universe through science – that is, to employ genetic engineering or to develop “thinking machines” to alter the nature of the human condition – constituted explicit rejection of God’s Word.

That's far more anti-science than even ;miriam; is shown to be...and doesn't fit well with how I read the ending quotes and statements.  The Conclave is suspicious of science, no question, but isn't going to say "no, absolutely not"...

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The big question for ;miriam; is this: how does somebody associated with a religious cult get assigned to a mission like this one?

Because she was a natural leader, and they needed a chaplain.

Quote
The problem in explaining the Gaians is how Deirdre manages to develop industry when it is obvious that her ideological preferences would effectively doom her economy from the outset.

Because there is such a thing as clean industry, and they're willing to be somewhat practical (just really careful).

Quote
I've done a lot of work with ;santi;. By contrast with the hyper-survivalist militias commonly associated with the Holnist movement decades before, the Spartans are, in fact, a very different phenomenon. The Holnist movement was described by a constellation of local "prepper" militias, allegedly libertarian, that metastasized out of the anti-tax, religious freedom, and states' rights or "patriot" movements that first appeared in the 1990s. In practice, these were racist chauvinists with no more practical a program than running off the local assessor while stockpiling food, water, and, above all, ammunition. Certainly there was no framework for participatory politics: the militiamen lynched their own would-be political leadership as enthusiastically as they did any representative of legitimate government. Rather than aid their neighbors, they enslaved them. Holnism emerged as a coherent force just long enough to temporarily shepherd the American West out of the Union, only to collapse under the weight of its own internal contradictions. In the end, the hyper-survivalists were their own worst enemy. Many an early sympathizer who tolerated destruction of Red Cross shelters and National Guard depots later joined the Home Guard units that eventually assisted Federal troops in routing out the last stockades of die-hard secessionists just under two years later. Santiago was a later disciple of a more disciplined generation of rugged individualists emerging in the aftermath of limited nuclear war. Far from overthrowing an existing society, they in fact replace one, later warring with the much stronger remnants of the pre-war government until themselves exhausted. The Spartan creed, like the hyper-survivalist, favored the strong. It also called for martial organization and constant vigilance in the form of relentless military training. Yet whereas the Holnist was often content to squat in his own tailings and at least spoke paeans to private property -- when it could be kept from the hands of stronger rivals -- the Spartan creed demands far more comprehensive sacrifices in the interest of producing a society dominated by a warrior caste. The Holnists might indulge in slavery and concubinage, might play at the business of modern war, but few indeed would have surrendered their children to the common creche or opted into a society disclaiming all personal wealth for common property.  ;santi;'s challenge will be to sort the Spartans from the Holnists -- the what from the chaff -- in what remains of her strike force after Planetfall.

Sounds good.

Quote
I have absolutely no idea, still, what to do with  ;yang;. My impulse is to maintain his commitment to Legalism. I suppose he was supposed to explore issues pertaining to consciousness and control. He was to be Big Brother, as it were. I think we can afford to be sharper indeed. I know this: Yang propounds a philosophy emphasizing three pillars: 法 (Fa), or law, meaning that the law is known, and obeyed because systematically enforced; 術 (Shu), or method, whereby the ruler holds himself apart from society and "special tactics and secrets" to obscure his motivations, reducing the opportunity for confidants to influence him except through their obeisance of the law; and 勢 (Shi), or legitimacy, which focuses on drawing distinctions between the ruler and the man. Of course, Yang is an enthusiastic student of surveillance methods and compliance enforcement technologies. I could nevertheless see him pursuing obedience through a combination of the lash and good, old Bradbury-style book burning than using drugs or other techniques to insert his consciousness directly into a shared reality.

Ok, makes sense.  However, that still misses his elitist/"the race as a whole is more important than any individual" motivation.

Quote
In terms of the Hunters, it's less that Marsh is a Luddite than that he is determined to remain the master of the technology at his disposal. Unlike ;deidre;, Marsh is able to conceive of Chiron as a worthy opponent even as he understands that it is vulnerable to total destruction.

"Remain the master of the technology at his disposal" as opposed to what?

Quote
My sense for The Estado Novo was that it explores what some men are willing to give up for safety and security. It is a meditation on collective security. What does one do when there is no law? They submit to a stronger power. The priesthood, in this case, is a tool. Indeed, we might think of them as other than priests. Their role is to pacify downward and legitimate upward.

But a faction that explores philosophical concepts, without a solid ideology behind it, doesn't fit SMAC/X.

Quote
The Dreamers open the possibility, I'd think, of gameplay in a second, virtual realm. Again, however, I could see them as a minor faction existing to provide mercenaries and items to the player factions unless and until destroyed.

They're definitely interesting...but you asked me if they fit the style of the game's factions, and they don't.

Quote
The Children of the Atom are really the "E.T. phone home" faction, combined with a leadership that apparently takes their orders from a supercomputer. Yea or nay?

It just doesn't fit the style.

Quote
The New Two Thousand. Van de Graaf is an instrumentalist, but whereas Morgan has abundant emotional intelligence, van de Graaf applies brute force. Both are great capitalists, but van de Graaf is concerned primarily to convert his wealth to power over other men because he wishes to dictate their fate in a historical endeavor. Morgan is more traditional in his ambitions, preferring luxury. Presumably the Morganites are run by a merchant oligarchy, their society is over-weened, and their military comprised almost exclusively of mercenaries. Van de Graaf hearkens back to one of those Old West cattle barons trying to use the power of the law to compel other men to give up what their own sweat has earned them. He does this with the help of a retinue of private "colonial marshals" -- private security men hired for that purpose back on Earth. I imagine that there would be a lot of tension between the "old line" settlers who paid van de Graaf up front and have something to offer his colony in terms of valuable skills, and newcomers who will be expected to earn their way out of indentured servitude or some similar wretchedness. Does that help any?

No.  Let me put it this way:

If you ask  ;deidre; "why should we follow you", she'd say "because we have a responsibility to not ruin this planet like the last one".

If you ask  ;yang; the same question, he'd say "for the good of the whole, which I can achieve the best because I don't waste resources on individuals, and expect them to give their utmost".

Ask  ;zak;, and he'll say "because science is what allows humanity to progress."

Ask  ;morgan;, and he'll say "same reason you, or anyone else, does anything: Because both of us stand to gain if you do."

Ask  ;santi;, and she'll say "so that humanity can survive on this hostile world."

Ask  ;miriam;, and she'll say "because a life of service to God is the only life worth living".

Ask  ;lal;, and he'll say "so we can put this mission back together, and benefit all the people".

Ask Pahlavi, and she'll say "so that we can produce a better breed of human, which will then be more effective".

Ask the others in your list, and there's no clear answer what they'll say.

Alternatively (or in addition): Write up, for each of your factions, a blurb and dialogue as if you were going to put it in the game (mechanics aren't necessary, just the blurb and all the diplomacy dialogue), and that should give a better sense of what's going on.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 13, 2015, 12:13:10 AM
Quote from: Yitzi
What does this correspond to?  If it's game balance, everybody seems to have a different take on which factions are stronger and weaker...

The trains correspond not to relative power, but to the extent to which I think each faction has a thorough identity.

Quote from: Yitzi
Not exactly; at the beginning of the game, I don't think she really knows what she wants, other than to avoid the ecological harm done to Earth.  Later on, she becomes Planet's advocate in council, and then helps it achieve its potential.

Sure. She's mostly straightforward.

Quote from: Yitzi
Not really.  As I see it, Yang uses harsh despotism (associated with the legalism that was apparently a major focus of the design idea behind him) as a means to an end, because he's been stuck with a population of which the vast majority are (by his standards) shallow, self-centered, unmotivated losers (basically, normal people).  In principle, he would have nothing against a democracy, if all the people were the sort of disciplined, enlightened individuals that he himself is.

We're still dealing, for the most part, with an individual who arrogates all decisions to himself and essentially inculcates blind loyalty on the part of his followers using various forms of social control, aren't we?

Quote from: Yitzi
I don't think Lal wants a technocracy.  Zakharov wants a technocracy, Lal wants a liberal democracy.

I thought Lal had a bit of social engineering in him. I could be incorrect. It makes no matter to me. I am happy for him to be the generic democrat.

Quote from: Yitzi
This does not fit.  Anyone who was that focused on the End Times probably wouldn't have gone on the Unity mission in the first place and risked missing the action (which, given the state of things, was clearly coming any day now, and probably already started).

I'm not absolutely wedded to the concept, but I still think it plausible. I'm not sure how profitable it is to debate the interior theology of a cultist.

Quote from: Yitzi
The homage is nice, but the Conclave Bible is mentioned too often in the blurbs to be worth removing.

I'd totally forgotten that fictional document until reading your post. Nice catch! I can live with the Conclave Bible. Perhaps the Orange-Catholic faith competes?

Quote from: Yitzi
That's far more anti-science than even ;miriam; is shown to be...and doesn't fit well with how I read the ending quotes and statements.  The Conclave is suspicious of science, no question, but isn't going to say "no, absolutely not"...

I don't think that the original Alpha Centauri dealt very well with the question of artificial intelligence and the extent to which sentient machines may inspire hesitation or misgiving in their human creators.

I think the Conclave would be more or less at ease with contemporary medicine but less comfortable with the harvesting and use of embryonic stem cells, certain types of genetic engineering, and the creation of autonomous thinking machines. That doesn't preclude the use of computers altogether.

I think if you were to ask the new faction leaders, "Why follow me?" they'd answer as follows:

Ask Marsh, and he'll say, "Because I understand the philosophy of survival on the knife's edge. My philosophy will teach you to be master of this, or any, domain by combining keen understanding of yourself with deep knowledge and respect for your environment."

Ask van de Graff, and he'll say, "Because I have hand-picked an expedition most likely to be able to endure." (He actually recruited out from under the multinational expedition proper.)

Ask the Dreamers, and their leadership would tell you, "Because we have realized that Chiron is wrecking changes to the human psyche heretofore unsuspected, and we are working to unravel that mystery."

Ask the Beneath, and they'd say, "Because survival is only probable beneath Chiron's seas."

Ask the Children of the Atom and they'd say, "Because we have retained the only thinking machine, and can plan better than any other faction."

Ask the Estado Novo, and they would say, "Because we have perfected a society uniquely suited to the requirements of life on Chiron, shielding our weak and reinforcing our strong."
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on May 13, 2015, 02:50:36 AM
Quote from: Yitzi
What does this correspond to?  If it's game balance, everybody seems to have a different take on which factions are stronger and weaker...

The trains correspond not to relative power, but to the extent to which I think each faction has a thorough identity.

I see all of the original 7 as having thorough identities.

Quote
We're still dealing, for the most part, with an individual who arrogates all decisions to himself and essentially inculcates blind loyalty on the part of his followers using various forms of social control, aren't we?

Definitely, but (as Journey to Centauri indicates), he does seem to want an "elite" alongside him, who would presumably have freedoms in proportion to their enlightenment.  The police state is for control of the masses.

Quote
I thought Lal had a bit of social engineering in him. I could be incorrect. It makes no matter to me. I am happy for him to be the generic democrat.

His approach to social engineering is just "more freedoms".  Look at his quotes, especially the faction blurb.

Quote
I'm not absolutely wedded to the concept, but I still think it plausible. I'm not sure how profitable it is to debate the interior theology of a cultist.

I think it can definitely be discussed, but I don't think the concept is particularly plausible.  Someone who's expecting God to save them isn't going to go to another planet when things get bad.

Quote
I'd totally forgotten that fictional document until reading your post. Nice catch! I can live with the Conclave Bible. Perhaps the Orange-Catholic faith competes?

Perhaps...maybe the Orange-Catholic is a more liberal/laid-back approach, popular among religious members of the Peacekeepers, Morganites, and Gaians.

Quote
I don't think that the original Alpha Centauri dealt very well with the question of artificial intelligence and the extent to which sentient machines may inspire hesitation or misgiving in their human creators.

I think it did discuss it somewhat...and while  ;miriam; definitely fits "hesitation or misgiving" with regard to such matters (just read her quotes, and it jumps out), she doesn't seem to go as far as the outright ban that you described.

Quote
I think the Conclave would be more or less at ease with contemporary medicine but less comfortable with the harvesting and use of embryonic stem cells, certain types of genetic engineering, and the creation of autonomous thinking machines. That doesn't preclude the use of computers altogether.

I don't think they would even completely preclude the use of autonomous thinking machines...they'd just be more wary than other factions.

Quote
Ask Marsh, and he'll say, "Because I understand the philosophy of survival on the knife's edge. My philosophy will teach you to be master of this, or any, domain by combining keen understanding of yourself with deep knowledge and respect for your environment."

So a more "outdoorsy" take on  ;santi;?  That might work...

Quote
Ask van de Graff, and he'll say, "Because I have hand-picked an expedition most likely to be able to endure." (He actually recruited out from under the multinational expedition proper.)

So now it sounds like his ideal is "a small, select elite".  But wouldn't that necessarily mean that he'll have a much smaller group, in order to only take the best?

Quote
Ask the Dreamers, and their leadership would tell you, "Because we have realized that Chiron is wrecking changes to the human psyche heretofore unsuspected, and we are working to unravel that mystery."

Ah...so similar to  ;zak; but focused on psychology.  Interesting, and could work...

Quote
Ask the Beneath, and they'd say, "Because survival is only probable beneath Chiron's seas."

That's not really ideological enough to fit with the original 7.

Quote
Ask the Children of the Atom and they'd say, "Because we have retained the only thinking machine, and can plan better than any other faction."

Definitely not ideological enough to fit with the original 7.

Quote
Ask the Estado Novo, and they would say, "Because we have perfected a society uniquely suited to the requirements of life on Chiron, shielding our weak and reinforcing our strong."

Ok, so now it sounds like a "role for everyone" sort of ideology, which actually could work quite well.

Still, I think that a blurb and diplomacy lines for all of them will help give them more character.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 13, 2015, 04:25:26 AM
Quote from: Yitzi
I see all of the original 7 as having thorough identities.

I suppose we must needs agree to disagree on this count.  :)

Quote from: Yitzi
Definitely, but (as Journey to Centauri indicates), he does seem to want an "elite" alongside him, who would presumably have freedoms in proportion to their enlightenment.  The police state is for control of the masses.

Geniocratic, then? A divided focus on what it takes to "build" the ideal ruler and the various compliance techniques required to suppress the huddled masses?

Quote from: Yitzi
His approach to social engineering is just "more freedoms".  Look at his quotes, especially the faction blurb.

I've never really known what to make of his faction. He talks about the importance of transparency, and yet the whole bureaucratic element can be construed (in some renditions) to partially cut against that. It depends on one's point of view, I suppose, whether or not grand mal concessions to cultural taboos (say, against vaccination) are a "liberal" value.

Quote from: Yitzi
I think it can definitely be discussed, but I don't think the concept is particularly plausible.  Someone who's expecting God to save them isn't going to go to another planet when things get bad.

I figured she'd interpret the Unity mission as the device designed to ferry her people to Salvation. Hence why every colonist is technically a member of the Elect.

Quote from: Yitzi
Perhaps...maybe the Orange-Catholic is a more liberal/laid-back approach, popular among religious members of the Peacekeepers, Morganites, and Gaians.

That's certainly a possibility. I figured that the Novo Estado would be the most-religious, after the Believers, but I agree with your general sense of religiosity overall.

Quote from: Yitzi
I think it did discuss it somewhat...and while  ;miriam; definitely fits "hesitation or misgiving" with regard to such matters (just read her quotes, and it jumps out), she doesn't seem to go as far as the outright ban that you described.

I've always felt that human alienation from "true" thinking machines was one of the more plausible aspects of the Dune story, if rejection of all computers entirely seemed stupid.


Quote from: Yitzi
So a more "outdoorsy" take on  ;santi;?  That might work...

Less inclined toward instilling discipline and values according to one particular methodology (i.e., military drill). Taking care, like the Gaians, to manage their settlements in symptico with Chiron's "moods," although inclined to fight back when the opportunity presents itself (e.g., by clear-cutting xenofungus).

Quote from: Yitzi
So now it sounds like his ideal is "a small, select elite".  But wouldn't that necessarily mean that he'll have a much smaller group, in order to only take the best?

The idea is that he took a few hundred family groups and some number of single contractors and put together what he felt was the ideal colony in terms of knowledge, skills, and abilities.

I might need to look more closely at the history of early settlements in the U.S. and craft him more closely into a Cotton Mather type.

Quote from: Yitzi
Ah...so similar to  ;zak; but focused on psychology.  Interesting, and could work...

Precisely. That, and dream-walking.

Quote from: Yitzi
That's not really ideological enough to fit with the original 7.

Other ideas...

A faction committed to a revival of Greek concepts of civic virtue, arete, worship of a pantheon of gods according to the dictates of one's conscience, and cultural heterogeneity?

The Children of the Atom would not have a very coherent ideology, no. Still, they'd have a unique identity. Is that worth keeping them in the rotation?

Quote from: Yitzi
Ok, so now it sounds like a "role for everyone" sort of ideology, which actually could work quite well.

Correct.

Quote from: Yitzi
Still, I think that a blurb and diplomacy lines for all of them will help give them more character.

I'm game. Is there somewhere I can go for their blurbs and diplomacy lines?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on May 13, 2015, 02:56:54 PM
Quote from: Yitzi
Definitely, but (as Journey to Centauri indicates), he does seem to want an "elite" alongside him, who would presumably have freedoms in proportion to their enlightenment.  The police state is for control of the masses.

Geniocratic, then? A divided focus on what it takes to "build" the ideal ruler and the various compliance techniques required to suppress the huddled masses?

Similar to geniocratic, but he seems more concerned with discipline and hard work and self-denial than with simple creative intelligence.

Quote
I've never really known what to make of his faction. He talks about the importance of transparency, and yet the whole bureaucratic element can be construed (in some renditions) to partially cut against that. It depends on one's point of view, I suppose, whether or not grand mal concessions to cultural taboos (say, against vaccination) are a "liberal" value.

I think he certainly does have some internal contradictions...that may be a direct result of his general "try to please everybody/try to get everybody to work together" approach.

Quote
I figured she'd interpret the Unity mission as the device designed to ferry her people to Salvation. Hence why every colonist is technically a member of the Elect.

Except her tendency toward preaching doesn't seem to really fit that...

Quote
That's certainly a possibility. I figured that the Novo Estado would be the most-religious, after the Believers, but I agree with your general sense of religiosity overall.

I was just listing among the original 7.

Quote
I've always felt that human alienation from "true" thinking machines was one of the more plausible aspects of the Dune story, if rejection of all computers entirely seemed stupid.

I think it is definitely a plausible approach that society might take, but it is emphatically not the approach taken in SMAC.

Quote
Less inclined toward instilling discipline and values according to one particular methodology (i.e., military drill). Taking care, like the Gaians, to manage their settlements in symptico with Chiron's "moods," although inclined to fight back when the opportunity presents itself (e.g., by clear-cutting xenofungus).

So a sort of Harmony-focused  ;santi;?  Could be interesting...

Quote
The idea is that he took a few hundred family groups and some number of single contractors and put together what he felt was the ideal colony in terms of knowledge, skills, and abilities.

I might need to look more closely at the history of early settlements in the U.S. and craft him more closely into a Cotton Mather type.

Such a small group would necessarily be a minor faction...but yes, that sort of "planned society" probably would fit well with the flavor of SMAC.

Quote
Precisely. That, and dream-walking.

But dream-walking is the method, not the ideology.

Quote
A faction committed to a revival of Greek concepts of civic virtue, arete, worship of a pantheon of gods according to the dictates of one's conscience, and cultural heterogeneity?

I'd say ditch the religious and cultural heterogeneity aspects, and just have the focus on arete.

Quote
The Children of the Atom would not have a very coherent ideology, no. Still, they'd have a unique identity. Is that worth keeping them in the rotation?

Not unless you've decided that you no longer want to fit the flavor of the originals.

Quote
I'm game. Is there somewhere I can go for their blurbs and diplomacy lines?

Each faction file has all that material.  The context of most of the diplomacy lines can be found (with the Gaians as a sample) in alphax.txt.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 14, 2015, 08:28:27 AM
Quote from: Yitzi
Similar to geniocratic, but he seems more concerned with discipline and hard work and self-denial than with simple creative intelligence.

I presume that his emphasis on these traits applies to all his subjects but that he would expect his Talents to apply themselves to the close study of a certain set of arts and disciplines, mastery of which would be considered the prerequisite for receiving prefectural authority.

Quote from: Yitzi
I think he certainly does have some internal contradictions...that may be a direct result of his general "try to please everybody/try to get everybody to work together" approach.

Right. His tendency to view the popular will as inherently legitimate sometimes overrides his opinions of what is in society’s best interest, as with the use of genetically-modified crops, for instance.

I think, if Lal is the simple democrat, I might add Archimedes' Exiles, a faction led by an engineer and former designer of prisons. The Exiles believe that all aspects of society should be planned by qualified professionals.

 
Quote from: Yitzi
Except her tendency toward preaching doesn't seem to really fit that...

Why not? It would still be obvious that some of the putative Elect have wayward tendencies.

Quote from: Yitzi
I think it is definitely a plausible approach that society might take, but it is emphatically not the approach taken in SMAC.

Sure, but this is one area in which I think deviation is warranted. I see a significant difference between supercomputers and genuinely self-aware machines.

Quote from: Yitzi
So a sort of Harmony-focused   ?  Could be interesting...

Something like that, yes. Not quite as sentimental as Deidre, but supremely sensitive to the “moods” of the land. Both the Gaians and the Hunters are adaptive, but the Hunters are more than prepared to alter the existing ecosystem until it is more consistent with their needs (i.e., exterminating predators, clear-cutting forest), whereas I always got the sense that Deidre’s people would be quicker to satisfice.

The Hunters do, admittedly, subscribe to an ideology that is largely identical to Santiago at its reductive core, which is simply that the human body must be kept in top form to survive what is coming. Santiago adds the element of integration into a disciplined community. Marsh calls instead for learning Chiron’s ways.

Quote from: Yitzi
Such a small group would necessarily be a minor faction...but yes, that sort of "planned society" probably would fit well with the flavor of SMAC.

I think the New Two Thousand could be easily adapted along those lines. I may also add an element of commercialism, supposing that, unlike Morgan, who would probably see no benefit to restoring contact with Earth (if we assume that he could expect to face meaningful competition from other service providers in that event), van de Graaf is determined to figure out how to exploit Chiron for markets back on Earth.

Morgan is transactional, and I could see his faction settling into an oligarchy dominated by a small group of families made wealthy by trade. The Carthaginian model, if you will. Van de Graaf is more the cattle baron to Morgan’s railroad magnate. I’m aware that the ideological distinction isn’t yet there.

When I think about their respective answers to the question, “Why should we follow you?” I hear Morgan responding, “Because life is a series of transactions, and I’ve yet to meet the man who didn’t want something I could provide.” I hear van de Graaf saying, “Because absent my organizational skills, you won’t last the first cold cycle.”

The question of what to do vis-à-vis Earth is one that I’ve tended to introduce in my games as a source of friction amongst the various factions. The Chiron Probe was always intended to be a reconnaissance, not an “escape” in the same manner as the Unity expedition.
 
Quote from: Yitzi
But dream-walking is the method, not the ideology.

There’s no ideology per se. Just a general lack of morals and a fascination with the possibilities of neuropsych.

Quote from: Yitzi
I'd say ditch the religious and cultural heterogeneity aspects, and just have the focus on arete.

I think the religious and cultural precepts would be useful here. It leads to a highly tolerant society with a great many cross-cutting influences.

Quote from: Yitzi
Each faction file has all that material.  The context of most of the diplomacy lines can be found (with the Gaians as a sample) in alphax.txt.

Let me try to offer some examples.

The Hunters of Chiron
#HUNTER
The Hunters of Chiron, The Hunters, Hunters, H, 1, Marsh, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Politics, Democratic, MORALE
  Politics, Police State, nil
  Hunter, Patrol,
  J.T., Marsh, High Hide
  Warden, keen, bloodthirsty, vigilant, savage,
  Useless Squatter
  adopt the attitude of the knife
  to strive, to seek, to find, and to yield
  engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy
  engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy
  piss down my back and tell me it rains
  sharpening his knife and licking his chops
  sharpening your knife and licking your chops
  provoking Planet against us all
  blatant piracy, M1
  wildlands management, M1
  piratical behaviors, M2
  subscription, M1
  daring to excel
  the Main Force Patrol
  the Law of the Jungle
“Architects tell us that form follows function, but the man in the bush knows that function must needs follow form. We are now, through a combination of indolence and indulgence, abandoning mastery of our form. Motion and excellence -- progress -- have somehow become inconveniences, better left to machines."
-- J.T. Marsh, “The Hunters of Chiron”
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Jeremy Tanner (“J.T.”) Courtenay Marsh}
^BACKGROUND: Kenya, CIP Game Warden
^AGENDA: {Pursuit of physical and mental excellence through adversarial relationship with Chiron}
^
#DATALINKS2
^+1 PLANET: {Conditioned to study the natural environment}
#FACTIONTRUCE
“If it’s all the same to you, $NAME1, I’d just as soon not die for no very good reason. Don’t let’s go to the dogs tonight. Only buggers what profit are the worms.”

“Sense in those words, I admit.”
“In for a penny…”

#FACTIONTREATY
“‘Never run the war path alone,’ that’s what I always say. Been cutting the same trail a long time, your mates an’ mine. Figure it’s time we made it official.”

“All right. Let’s do that.”
“I hear that it is customary to hang a poacher. Call me a traditionalist.”

#BREAKTREATY
“Say, #NAME1? No slander to say there’s many a clever trick done by an overlander.”

#DREAMER
The Dreamers of Chiron, The Dreamers, Sonambulist, H, 1, Cobb and Cohen, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Values, Knowledge, PROBE
  ?, ?, nil
  Hunter, Hunter,
  Roshann and Aleigha, Cobb and Cohen, The Fountainhead
  Tai-Pan, Director, imponderable, genius, vacant, visionary, effortless, skillful, bloodless, boot-licking,
  Addict, Lackey
  to plot the turbulent tributaries of the fully awakened mind
  to plumb fully the mysteries we are only now beginning to perceive 
  measuring your scientific progress in the shattered minds of those unlucky enough to fall into your clutches
measuring their scientific progress in the shattered minds of those unlucky enough to fall into their clutches 
obliterate our identities by coming and going and taking and leaving as you please
  even now, devising all manner of reprehensible tests, and us the unsuspecting subjects
  planning a little visit to extract what is not your own
  proliferating a knowledge that must be suppressed
  idea theft, M1
  identifying the first of us born with new sensitivities to our fellow men, M1
  endless nightmare, M2
  toll, M1
  falling toward apotheosis
  the Asset Control Division
  the Rules of Extraction
"Name the most resilient parasite. A bacterium? A virus? An intestinal worm? No. The most resilient parasite is an idea. Explosive. Highly contagious. Once formed in the brain, an idea is impossible to erradicate. My scientists tell me that even what is allegedly forgetten is still in there... somewhere. I haven't got a map. That, I admit freely. But I do have a lovely box of dynamite."
-- Roshann Cobb, “The Art of Extraction”
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Roshann Cobb and Aleigha Cohen}
^BACKGROUND: Hong Kong, Proprietor; Myanmar, Chief of Neurosurgery
^AGENDA: {Understand significant neurological mutations among the CIP crew}
^
#DATALINKS2
?
#FACTIONTRUCE
“By day, you make war, but by night, you dream of peace.”

“I guess that makes you my personal genie.”
“‘Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon.’”

#FACTIONTREATY
“As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know that there are known unknowns; that is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And finally, there are the unknown knowns; things we used to know but no longer remember. I can help with that.”

“Total recall? Works for me.”
“You have the look of an addict, and are no more convincing.”

#BREAKTREATY
“It was all a dream.”
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on May 14, 2015, 03:33:47 PM
I presume that his emphasis on these traits applies to all his subjects but that he would expect his Talents to apply themselves to the close study of a certain set of arts and disciplines, mastery of which would be considered the prerequisite for receiving prefectural authority.

Sounds right.

Quote
I think, if Lal is the simple democrat, I might add Archimedes' Exiles, a faction led by an engineer and former designer of prisons. The Exiles believe that all aspects of society should be planned by qualified professionals.

So somewhere in between  ;yang; and  ;zak;...could be interesting.

Quote
Why not? It would still be obvious that some of the putative Elect have wayward tendencies.

Generally, the idea of the Elect is that they are those who are righteous.

Quote
Sure, but this is one area in which I think deviation is warranted.

It's your system...
 
Quote
There’s no ideology per se.

Then it doesn't fit.

Quote
I think the religious and cultural precepts would be useful here. It leads to a highly tolerant society with a great many cross-cutting influences.

But the absence of cross-cutting influences is a large part of what characterizes the original SMAC factions.

Quote
The Hunters of Chiron
#HUNTER
The Hunters of Chiron, The Hunters, Hunters, H, 1, Marsh, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Politics, Democratic, MORALE
  Politics, Police State, nil

So he'd tend to run Democratic? Interesting...

Quote
  Hunter, Patrol,
  J.T., Marsh, High Hide
  Warden, keen, bloodthirsty, vigilant, savage,
  Useless Squatter
  adopt the attitude of the knife
  to strive, to seek, to find, and to yield

Was there supposed to be a "not" in there?

Quote
  engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy
  engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy
  piss down my back and tell me it rains
  sharpening his knife and licking his chops
  sharpening your knife and licking your chops
  provoking Planet against us all
  blatant piracy, M1
  wildlands management, M1
  piratical behaviors, M2
  subscription, M1
  daring to excel
  the Main Force Patrol
  the Law of the Jungle
“Architects tell us that form follows function, but the man in the bush knows that function must needs follow form. We are now, through a combination of indolence and indulgence, abandoning mastery of our form. Motion and excellence -- progress -- have somehow become inconveniences, better left to machines."
-- J.T. Marsh, “The Hunters of Chiron”
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Jeremy Tanner (“J.T.”) Courtenay Marsh}
^BACKGROUND: Kenya, CIP Game Warden
^AGENDA: {Pursuit of physical and mental excellence through adversarial relationship with Chiron}
^
#DATALINKS2
^+1 PLANET: {Conditioned to study the natural environment}
#FACTIONTRUCE
“If it’s all the same to you, $NAME1, I’d just as soon not die for no very good reason. Don’t let’s go to the dogs tonight. Only buggers what profit are the worms.”

“Sense in those words, I admit.”
“In for a penny…”

#FACTIONTREATY
“‘Never run the war path alone,’ that’s what I always say. Been cutting the same trail a long time, your mates an’ mine. Figure it’s time we made it official.”

“All right. Let’s do that.”
“I hear that it is customary to hang a poacher. Call me a traditionalist.”

#BREAKTREATY
“Say, #NAME1? No slander to say there’s many a clever trick done by an overlander.”

Ok, now I have a better idea of what they're like.  Essentially, they glorify the pre-modern "outdoorsy" life.

That said, I would change the bonuses they would get.  I'd say give them significant fungus bonuses (but no PLANET bonus), a SUPPORT bonus, and RESEARCH and EFFICIENCY penalties.

Quote
#DREAMER
The Dreamers of Chiron, The Dreamers, Sonambulist, H, 1, Cobb and Cohen, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Values, Knowledge, PROBE
  ?, ?, nil
  Hunter, Hunter,
  Roshann and Aleigha, Cobb and Cohen, The Fountainhead
  Tai-Pan, Director, imponderable, genius, vacant, visionary, effortless, skillful, bloodless, boot-licking,
  Addict, Lackey
  to plot the turbulent tributaries of the fully awakened mind
  to plumb fully the mysteries we are only now beginning to perceive 
  measuring your scientific progress in the shattered minds of those unlucky enough to fall into your clutches
measuring their scientific progress in the shattered minds of those unlucky enough to fall into their clutches 
obliterate our identities by coming and going and taking and leaving as you please
  even now, devising all manner of reprehensible tests, and us the unsuspecting subjects
  planning a little visit to extract what is not your own
  proliferating a knowledge that must be suppressed
  idea theft, M1
  identifying the first of us born with new sensitivities to our fellow men, M1
  endless nightmare, M2
  toll, M1
  falling toward apotheosis
  the Asset Control Division
  the Rules of Extraction
"Name the most resilient parasite. A bacterium? A virus? An intestinal worm? No. The most resilient parasite is an idea. Explosive. Highly contagious. Once formed in the brain, an idea is impossible to erradicate. My scientists tell me that even what is allegedly forgetten is still in there... somewhere. I haven't got a map. That, I admit freely. But I do have a lovely box of dynamite."
-- Roshann Cobb, “The Art of Extraction”
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Roshann Cobb and Aleigha Cohen}
^BACKGROUND: Hong Kong, Proprietor; Myanmar, Chief of Neurosurgery
^AGENDA: {Understand significant neurological mutations among the CIP crew}
^
#DATALINKS2
?
#FACTIONTRUCE
“By day, you make war, but by night, you dream of peace.”

“I guess that makes you my personal genie.”
“‘Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon.’”

#FACTIONTREATY
“As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know that there are known unknowns; that is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And finally, there are the unknown knowns; things we used to know but no longer remember. I can help with that.”

“Total recall? Works for me.”
“You have the look of an addict, and are no more convincing.”

#BREAKTREATY
“It was all a dream.”

Looks good, although they still are fairly similar to  ;zak;.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 15, 2015, 06:31:14 AM
Quote from: Yitzi
Sounds right.

If we take that to its logical conclusion, he's resurrected the traditional Chinese imperial system. A distinctive take on despotism/kingship.

Again, I anticipate much book burning.

Quote from: Yitzi
So somewhere in between  ;yang; and  ;zak;...could be interesting.

Faction leader is Sardul Singh, a supervising engineer aboard the Unity. Singh is from Jodhpur, India, son of a provincial inspector of prisons. He studied engineering and civic planning at the Indian Institutes of Technology. A former member of the Indian Parliament, he is notable for designing several maximum security prisons and planned nuclear cities in India, Russia, and China.

His psych profile is that of the planner. His file refers to a strong belief in the power of planned communities to complement social and criminal rehabilitation and promote physical and mental well-being, spurring productivity. He has a near-pathological commitment to order and economization, leaning heavily on operant conditioning as a tool of governance.

As a faction, they would presumably be characterized by increased efficiency, strong policing, reduced morale, and a planned economy. Probably their advantage has to do with drones.

Can you tell that I am indebted to Sigma for much of the text below? Cheers! Happy to remove it if he objects.

The Archimedes Group
#ARCHIMEDES
The Archimedes Group, Communitarians, Communitarians, H, 1, Singh, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Economics, Planned, EFFICIENCY
  Values, Eudaimonic, nil
  Archidemician, Communitarian,
  Sardul, Singh, Alpha Block
  Architect, disciplined, pedantic, industrious, grandiose,
  Unrestrained Megalomaniac
  usher humanity into a new Golden Age of harmony and efficiency
  to build a society free of strife, want, or vice
  slowly acclimating those inmates he calls citizens to their cells
  so enthusiastically stamping out any trace of individuality within your ambit
  impose your brutalizing vision on what remains of humanity
  delivering interminable speeches extolling the virtues of obedience and similarity
  taking the most exquisite care to never let a smile go unpunished
  furnishing our cells even as we speak
  crushing the human spirit, M1
  raising men up by helping them to tame their animal impulses, M1
  next project, M2
  bid, M1
  designing for the future
  the Overseers
  the Code of Conduct

“A man's contribution to his society is reflective of his living conditions. The slum-dweller's work is quick but shoddy. He labors only for fear of the lash. His business is bread business. The addict's work is sloppy and uncoordinated. He cares for nothing but being set free to pursue his vice. Gives me instead the man with a home, the man with dignity, the man with a family. He works from pride, and with him, I will leave marble what I found wood."

-- Sardul Singh, "Human Architecture"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Sardhul Singh}
^BACKGROUND: India, 'Unity' Supervising Engineer
^AGENDA: {To build a society free of strife, want, or vice}
^
#DATALINKS2
^+2 EFFICIENCY: {Every aspect of society is ordered to reduce waste}
#FACTIONTRUCE
“The recent hostilities between our factions have severely complicated many carefully-laid plans. Perhaps it is time to rethink the wisdom of violent contention.”

“Agreed.”
“Oh, you know what they say about mice and men...”

#FACTIONTREATY
“When there is only one watcher on the wall, the inmates look to take advantage. But when there are two...”

“...then they dare not act!”
“I'd sooner spend time in solitary confinement.”

#BREAKTREATY
“Needless to say, I'd been planning this for some time now.”

Quote from: Yitzi
But the absence of cross-cutting influences is a large part of what characterizes the original SMAC factions.

I mean to say, I think they'd be one of the more tolerant factions.

Quote from: Yitzi
So he'd tend to run Democratic? Interesting...

I think so, yes. A charismatic democracy, to be sure.

Quote from: Yitzi
Was there supposed to be a "not" in there?

No. He's supposed to be successful. :)

Quote from: Yitzi
Looks good, although they still are fairly similar to  ;zak;.

One of the significant problems I'd like you to help me consider is that virtually every scientist of note -- Zakharov, Cohen, and Pahlavi -- is an ethical deviant of the highest caliber. Is Zakharov still Zakharov if he retains any ethics? I do think that a society organized around a university structure will be interesting, however.

Quote from: Yitzi
That said, I would change the bonuses they would get.  I'd say give them significant fungus bonuses (but no PLANET bonus), a SUPPORT bonus, and RESEARCH and EFFICIENCY penalties.

That sounds about right. Why a SUPPORT bonus? I'd figure an EFFICIENCY bonus for living simply, but penalties to SUPPORT, INDUSTRY, and GROWTH due to population size. Also, in game terms, they'd probably have had greater vision range and exploration chances than the norm.

Let's try The New Two Thousand...

#TWOTHOUSAND
The New Two Thousand, The Empresario, Two Thousand, M, 2, Van de Graaf, M, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0
TECH, Command
Economics, Free Market, SUPPORT
Politics, Democracy, nil
Oscar, van de Graaf, Nova Terra
Captain-General, daring, egotistical, visionary, double-dealing,
Rampant Egotist
demonstrate the viability of the planned colony on Chiron
to build a meritocratic society of the Chosen, founded on the right to enjoyment of private property
seizing what is rightfully yours and calling it his own
seizing what is rightfully mine and calling it your own
empowering his tin-star marshals to impound whatever goods -- or people -- they happen to run across
carping on about the litany wrongs done to him
carping on about the litany of wrongs done to you
committing the latter-day equivalent of cattle-rustling
absconding with things not your own
absconding with things not your own, M2
taming bravely this strange new world, M1
colonial expansion, M2
stake, M1
securing a claim in the greatest enterprise of the present age
the Colonial Marshals
The Settlement Charter

#BLURB
^"The cornerstone of the American dream is each man's inalienable right to the enjoyment of his own property. This notion is enshrined in the law. It was sanctified by the blood of our ancestors. A man's land, it is his patrimony. A man's possessions, they are a part of his legacy. In right society, my property cannot be taxed but I am given a say in how those proceeds are spent. My property cannot be seized but I am given fair value in return.

We had a written agreement, Quoyle and myself. My property -- my people -- were subject to his writ for two years, reverting to my sole possession, free and clear, at the conclusion of that period. The purpose of that agreement was to secure the future of a unified colony. Well now Quoyle and that colony are dead. The contract is broken, my property scattered. I mean to recover that property by any and all means available to me."

-- Oscar van de Graaf, "Notes on Arrival"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Oscar van de Graaf}
^AGENDA: {to build a meritocratic society of the Chosen, founded on the right to enjoyment of private property}
^TECH: {Doctrine: Command}

#DATALINKS2
^+1 SUPPORT: {Contingency planning for virtually any eventuality}
^+X WEALTH: {Hand-picked settlers pooled collective wealth}
^+25% defensive combat bonus: {Armed retainers}

#FACTIONTRUCE

"You know what's going to happen in the morning? The whole lot of my boys'll be out, occupy the high ground, move through that pretty valley there, and have at your town. You will fight valiantly, and be butchered valiantly! And afterwards, men will thump their chests and say what a brave cause it was, too! But you'll be dead and gone. Figured I'd give you a chance to reason. You sure you're shooting at the right people?"

"As you say, this whole series of events has been an unfortunate mistake."
"I have some bad news for you: the cavalry aren't coming."

#FACTIONTREATY
"$TITLE0 $NAME1, I'd sooner have a good neighbor than a good fence."

"You've got one. Where do I sign?"
"I know what happens to those who make their mark on the dotted line. You better just light a shuck for home."

#BREAKTRUCE
"Bad news, bucko: You're bought out."
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on May 15, 2015, 12:38:41 PM
Faction leader is Sardul Singh, a supervising engineer aboard the Unity. Singh is from Jodhpur, India, son of a provincial inspector of prisons. He studied engineering and civic planning at the Indian Institutes of Technology. A former member of the Indian Parliament, he is notable for designing several maximum security prisons and planned nuclear cities in India, Russia, and China.

His psych profile is that of the planner. His file refers to a strong belief in the power of planned communities to complement social and criminal rehabilitation and promote physical and mental well-being, spurring productivity. He has a near-pathological commitment to order and economization, leaning heavily on operant conditioning as a tool of governance.

As a faction, they would presumably be characterized by increased efficiency, strong policing, reduced morale, and a planned economy. Probably their advantage has to do with drones.

Can you tell that I am indebted to Sigma for much of the text below? Cheers! Happy to remove it if he objects.

The Archimedes Group
#ARCHIMEDES
The Archimedes Group, Communitarians, Communitarians, H, 1, Singh, H, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1,
  Economics, Planned, EFFICIENCY

So their favored setting decreases their favored value?  That's extremely unusual...

  Values, Eudaimonic, nil
  Archidemician, Communitarian,
  Sardul, Singh, Alpha Block
  Architect, disciplined, pedantic, industrious, grandiose,
  Unrestrained Megalomaniac
  usher humanity into a new Golden Age of harmony and efficiency
  to build a society free of strife, want, or vice
  slowly acclimating those inmates he calls citizens to their cells
  so enthusiastically stamping out any trace of individuality within your ambit
  impose your brutalizing vision on what remains of humanity
  delivering interminable speeches extolling the virtues of obedience and similarity
  taking the most exquisite care to never let a smile go unpunished
  furnishing our cells even as we speak
  crushing the human spirit, M1
  raising men up by helping them to tame their animal impulses, M1
  next project, M2
  bid, M1
  designing for the future
  the Overseers
  the Code of Conduct

“A man's contribution to his society is reflective of his living conditions. The slum-dweller's work is quick but shoddy. He labors only for fear of the lash. His business is bread business. The addict's work is sloppy and uncoordinated. He cares for nothing but being set free to pursue his vice. Gives me instead the man with a home, the man with dignity, the man with a family. He works from pride, and with him, I will leave marble what I found wood."

-- Sardul Singh, "Human Architecture"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Sardhul Singh}
^BACKGROUND: India, 'Unity' Supervising Engineer
^AGENDA: {To build a society free of strife, want, or vice}
^
#DATALINKS2
^+2 EFFICIENCY: {Every aspect of society is ordered to reduce waste}[/quote]

If he's going to focus on EFFIC and like Planned as well, I'd give him impunity to the latter.

But that does seem like it could fit...sort of  ;aki; minus  ;zak;.

Quote
I mean to say, I think they'd be one of the more tolerant factions.

That would probably result from a focus on arete anyway...no need to make it part of their core ideology.

Quote
No. He's supposed to be successful. :)

The phrase is "and not to yield", meaning to be successful.

Quote
One of the significant problems I'd like you to help me consider is that virtually every scientist of note -- Zakharov, Cohen, and Pahlavi -- is an ethical deviant of the highest caliber.

You're missing one very important exception:  ;deidre; is a scientist.

Every faction leader who thinks science will solve all problems is an ethical deviant of the highest caliber...and the reason for that should be obvious.

Quote
That sounds about right. Why a SUPPORT bonus?

Living off the land, and minimal advanced/needs-to-be-replaced-often equipment.

Quote
Let's try The New Two Thousand...

#TWOTHOUSAND
The New Two Thousand, The Empresario, Two Thousand, M, 2, Van de Graaf, M, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0
TECH, Command
Economics, Free Market, SUPPORT
Politics, Democracy, nil
Oscar, van de Graaf, Nova Terra
Captain-General, daring, egotistical, visionary, double-dealing,
Rampant Egotist
demonstrate the viability of the planned colony on Chiron
to build a meritocratic society of the Chosen, founded on the right to enjoyment of private property
seizing what is rightfully yours and calling it his own
seizing what is rightfully mine and calling it your own
empowering his tin-star marshals to impound whatever goods -- or people -- they happen to run across
carping on about the litany wrongs done to him
carping on about the litany of wrongs done to you
committing the latter-day equivalent of cattle-rustling
absconding with things not your own
absconding with things not your own, M2
taming bravely this strange new world, M1
colonial expansion, M2
stake, M1
securing a claim in the greatest enterprise of the present age
the Colonial Marshals
The Settlement Charter

#BLURB
^"The cornerstone of the American dream is each man's inalienable right to the enjoyment of his own property. This notion is enshrined in the law. It was sanctified by the blood of our ancestors. A man's land, it is his patrimony. A man's possessions, they are a part of his legacy. In right society, my property cannot be taxed but I am given a say in how those proceeds are spent. My property cannot be seized but I am given fair value in return.

We had a written agreement, Quoyle and myself. My property -- my people -- were subject to his writ for two years, reverting to my sole possession, free and clear, at the conclusion of that period. The purpose of that agreement was to secure the future of a unified colony. Well now Quoyle and that colony are dead. The contract is broken, my property scattered. I mean to recover that property by any and all means available to me."

-- Oscar van de Graaf, "Notes on Arrival"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Oscar van de Graaf}
^AGENDA: {to build a meritocratic society of the Chosen, founded on the right to enjoyment of private property}
^TECH: {Doctrine: Command}

#DATALINKS2
^+1 SUPPORT: {Contingency planning for virtually any eventuality}
^+X WEALTH: {Hand-picked settlers pooled collective wealth}
^+25% defensive combat bonus: {Armed retainers}

#FACTIONTRUCE

"You know what's going to happen in the morning? The whole lot of my boys'll be out, occupy the high ground, move through that pretty valley there, and have at your town. You will fight valiantly, and be butchered valiantly! And afterwards, men will thump their chests and say what a brave cause it was, too! But you'll be dead and gone. Figured I'd give you a chance to reason. You sure you're shooting at the right people?"

"As you say, this whole series of events has been an unfortunate mistake."
"I have some bad news for you: the cavalry aren't coming."

#FACTIONTREATY
"$TITLE0 $NAME1, I'd sooner have a good neighbor than a good fence."

"You've got one. Where do I sign?"
"I know what happens to those who make their mark on the dotted line. You better just light a shuck for home."

#BREAKTRUCE
"Bad news, bucko: You're bought out."

Sounds like he's unethical in his pursuit of wealth, knows it, and really doesn't care, but keeps up the pretense of "for the good of the mission" in the same way that people like Capone would take on the trappings of culture...could be interesting, though a sincerely villainous faction is definitely not in the flavor of the original factions.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 15, 2015, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: Yitzi
So their favored setting decreases their favored value?  That's extremely unusual...

We may, in fact, be talking about a Command economy, but I agree that their trait would need to reduce bureaucratic penalties, including inefficiency. Unless they are designed for boosted output instead.

I honestly don't see Sardul's as a happy society. When I think of him, it is usually in his subverted form, as the prison warden rather than the civic planner. His goal is to keep his human "assets" both manageable and productive, and to that end he is quicker with sticks than with carrots.

I'd relegate him to a minor faction if it wasn't clear that he fills a niche not really addressed by any of the seven original factions.

Quote from: Yitzi
That would probably result from a focus on arete anyway...no need to make it part of their core ideology.

I think it's a matter of comfort: it feels weird to think about an Alexandrine faction without its fetish for things "other."

Quote from: Yitzi
The phrase is "and not to yield", meaning to be successful.

Would you believe that I've always interpreted the use of "yield" in that sentence to mean "produce," not "refuse surrender"? This was in the context of the doomed Robert Falcon Scott expedition.

Quote from: Yitzi
You're missing one very important exception:  ;deidre; is a scientist.

Every faction leader who thinks science will solve all problems is an ethical deviant of the highest caliber...and the reason for that should be obvious.

Touché, although I think it possible to have a scientist who acknowledges the legitimacy of the popular will, even if he or she disagrees with it. The leader of the Children of the Atom was to be one of those.

I just worry that the science-focused factions suffer from (A) seeming artificially linear in their focus on particular disciplines (e.g., materials science, genetics, fusion, neuropsych, xenobiology), and (B) too much similarity in their mad rush to break all known ethical safeguards. I view Zakharov and Cohen as torturers, and Zakharov, Pahlavi, and Cohen as being prepared to experiment on prisoners.

I've always thought that Zakharov would have been more interesting as a distinctly "New Soviet man" type, but building the alternate history to favor a longer-lasting USSR, or placing his birth as far back as the 1970s, was just too hard or too implausible, respectively.

Quote from: Yitzi
Living off the land, and minimal advanced/needs-to-be-replaced-often equipment.

I figured that stood for efficiency more than support, but I see that you're talking about support from a base. The issue here is that I think Marsh's faction would be numerically very small.

Then again, the way the simulation is going to work, none of these modifiers is going to come into play in a way that can't be managed by the moderator. It is possible to be much more fiddley.

Quote from: Yitzi
Sounds like he's unethical in his pursuit of wealth, knows it, and really doesn't care, but keeps up the pretense of "for the good of the mission" in the same way that people like Capone would take on the trappings of culture...could be interesting, though a sincerely villainous faction is definitely not in the flavor of the original factions.

I acknowledge that he's gained Snidley Whiplash traits.

Originally, I figured that there would be some good in him. He does have values other than wealth and the enjoyment of luxury, which I think sets him apart from Morgan. The issue is that van de Graaf was a patriot, and nationalism doesn't really have a place in Alpha Centauri. For the same reasons, I've been struggling with the idea of a faction of genocide survivors who were put aboard as a kind of collective apology, led by an Erik Lensherr/Magneto madman type determined to take vengeance on the other factions and to prevent re-contact with Earth.

Van de Graaf is a meditation on the good and evil of the early rancher. Themes hinted at in the work of Louis L'Amour. What does it take to tame a wilderness? L'Amour, who otherwise always wrote about morally upright men, occasionally seemed to suggest that civilized society had been made possible only because hard men had jealously defended their initially precarious (and often legally dubious) positions years (sometimes decades) before. There was this idea that it was OK to ride into strange country and disposes other big men, and the justification was in the poetry of having the grit and wit to do so -- either implication or actual evidence of being the superior steward from a civilization standpoint. Might made right as often as right made might.

Van de Graaf feels used by the mission leadership. He feels that they abused the terms of a contract that he signed so that the colony could benefit at his (van de Graaf's) personal expense.

I think van de Graaf is also of the belief, common enough among the Founding Fathers and in many societies, that there is a class of "Gifted" men, either arising naturally or else as the product of gentility (the leisure class). This would be effectively an aristocratic point-of-view, although I think it would in fact be more meritocratic. I think, basically, that van de Graaf would take on anybody who could make themselves useful, but that due to the circumstances of the CIP post-plauge exodus, he'd have a lot of redundancy and dead weight among his population, leading him to indulge his darker side and endorse debt slavery.

As for evil, I think Yang is/was always palpably evil. So too Miriam. Lal was the only truly "good guy" that I remember encountering after Garland's death. The rest were implied to be quite insane. Morgan was perhaps neutral.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on May 15, 2015, 06:29:08 PM
Would you believe that I've always interpreted the use of "yield" in that sentence to mean "produce," not "refuse surrender"?

Which is an incorrect usage; to produce is to be yielded to (by the land or whatever), not to yield oneself.

Quote
Touché, although I think it possible to have a scientist who acknowledges the legitimacy of the popular will, even if he or she disagrees with it.

Definitely, but such would simply be a  ;lal;-type who happens to be a scientist; someone who holds science above all else will not accept the legitimacy of the will of non-scientists.

Quote
I just worry that the science-focused factions suffer from (A) seeming artificially linear in their focus on particular disciplines (e.g., materials science, genetics, fusion, neuropsych, xenobiology)

 ;zak; doesn't really have any particular focus; he may speak somewhat more about physics and materials science, but I think he really respects all science equally.

Quote
and (B) too much similarity in their mad rush to break all known ethical safeguards.

Well, those safeguards slow down the march of progress (or so they'd say).

Quote
I've always thought that Zakharov would have been more interesting as a distinctly "New Soviet man" type, but building the alternate history to favor a longer-lasting USSR, or placing his birth as far back as the 1970s, was just too hard or too implausible, respectively.

It's not an alternate history.  It's a future history that's become dated.  At the time SMAC was produced, all the relevant events were still in the future.  (For that matter, the Unity launch still isn't until next year.)

Quote
I figured that stood for efficiency more than support, but I see that you're talking about support from a base.

That is what SUPPORT affects.

Quote
The issue here is that I think Marsh's faction would be numerically very small.

That would just mean they'd have less forces period; what they have would still be easier to support.

Quote
Originally, I figured that there would be some good in him. He does have values other than wealth and the enjoyment of luxury, which I think sets him apart from Morgan. The issue is that van de Graaf was a patriot, and nationalism doesn't really have a place in Alpha Centauri. For the same reasons, I've been struggling with the idea of a faction of genocide survivors who were put aboard as a kind of collective apology, led by an Erik Lensherr/Magneto madman type determined to take vengeance on the other factions and to prevent re-contact with Earth.

Van de Graaf is a meditation on the good and evil of the early rancher. Themes hinted at in the work of Louis L'Amour. What does it take to tame a wilderness? L'Amour, who otherwise always wrote about morally upright men, occasionally seemed to suggest that civilized society had been made possible only because hard men had jealously defended their initially precarious (and often legally dubious) positions years (sometimes decades) before. There was this idea that it was OK to ride into strange country and disposes other big men, and the justification was in the poetry of having the grit and wit to do so -- either implication or actual evidence of being the superior steward from a civilization standpoint. Might made right as often as right made might.

Van de Graaf feels used by the mission leadership. He feels that they abused the terms of a contract that he signed so that the colony could benefit at his (van de Graaf's) personal expense.

None of that is universal enough to be its SMAC-style ideology, though.

Quote
As for evil, I think Yang is/was always palpably evil. So too Miriam. Lal was the only truly "good guy" that I remember encountering after Garland's death. The rest were implied to be quite insane. Morgan was perhaps neutral.

Not really; each faction leader (at least among the original 7, and of the SMAX factions at least the aliens) can be seen both positively and negatively:

 ;deidre; is concerned for the welfare of even non-human sapients and quasi-sapients.  On the flip side, she is quite an extremist in many ways, concerned purely with keeping Planet "pristine"...at least at first.

 ;yang; cares about one thing, and one thing only: The welfare of humanity as a whole.  So on the positive side: That's a noble goal, and surely humanity is more important than any single person.  And he expects nothing from anyone else that he doesn't expect from himself.  On the negative side: His forsaking any other values in the name of his goals mean that his group is a totalitarian nightmare.

 ;zak; makes good points about the importance of science...but on the other hand, he is quite unethical.

 ;morgan; envisions a society where you can consume according to what you produce, and efficiency arises from everybody acting in their own interests.  This is a good system for most people in most cases...but he doesn't really seem to have any approach for dealing with people who need some extra help, or dealing with market failure.

 ;santi; is focused on the survival of humanity...surely that's important.  But in the process, she tends to cause arms races...

 ;miriam; gives her followers purpose, surely supports those who need support, etc.  But being a non-Christian under her rule is probably at least awkward.  (She depends the most on interpretation, as while Christianity is clearly a state religion for her, it's not at all clear what that implies.  If you're still allowed to belong to other religions or none, then she comes across as one of the best.  If not, then she comes across as one of the worst.)

 ;lal; is fairly good, as you say...but he is described by his enemies as attempting to set himself up as the only legitimate authority on Planet...and his focus on the freedoms of the individual no doubt comes at the expense of the greater good at times.

 ;caretake; is concerned with avoiding a disaster of planetary proportions...and is willing to force everyone off Planet and keep Planet from progressing in order to do so.

 ;marr; wants to achieve godhood...but is willing to enslave Planet, and risk disaster, in order to do so.

The perspective that  ;lal; is good and  ;yang; and  ;miriam; evil is the perspective of liberal democracy...but the beauty of SMAC is that it gives a fair shake to all the perspectives.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 15, 2015, 08:29:45 PM
As always, many thanks for the terrific discussion!

Quote from: ”Yitzi”
Which is an incorrect usage; to produce is to be yielded to (by the land or whatever), not to yield oneself.
As I mentioned, I read it in the context of the Scott expedition and his death.

Quote from: Yitzi
Definitely, but such would simply be a   -type who happens to be a scientist; someone who holds science above all else will not accept the legitimacy of the will of non-scientists.
How many faction leaders do we really need who hold scientists above all else? Are we nearing overkill?
Zakharov’s antipathy toward ethics and cultural aversions to science is Janus-faced, but not (at first) wholly evil. On the one hand, he believes that those who reject scientific advances as inconsistent with traditional lifestyles (read: religion) are simply ignorant buffoons who don’t deserve a voice. On the other hand, he regards ethics boards as an impediment to discovery. A variant of the “good of the many, good of the few” argument. Pahlavi takes the same dim view of those who reject tampering with human genetics, but her frustration with ethics boards strikes me as even less principled. A different of degrees, I think. Cohen is in a somewhat different camp. Zakharov conducts unethical experiments some of the time. Pahlavi pursues research along a branch of life science deemed unorthodox at best and unethical at worst. Everything Cohen does is essentially unmoored from conventional ethics. Still a matter of degrees?

Quote from: Yitzi
    doesn't really have any particular focus; he may speak somewhat more about physics and materials science, but I think he really respects all science equally.
In the original game, yes. If we are adding Pahlavi and Cohen, the one focused on biological science, the other on neuropsych, then perhaps it makes sense to posit that Zakharov is a materials scientist primarily? Pahlavi and Cohen are otherwise nothing more than a female takes on one potential road that could be taken with Zakharov.

Quote from: Yitzi
It's not an alternate history.  It's a future history that's become dated.  At the time SMAC was produced, all the relevant events were still in the future.  (For that matter, the Unity launch still isn't until next year.)
Right, but in order to make Zakharov a product of the Soviet educational system, I’d need to create a corresponding alternative history. Writing a detailed “future history” was difficult enough.
I’ve considered adding a national, ethno-cultural dimension to the game by specifying not just what types of professions were associated with each faction, but the geographic origins of their respective followers as well. For example, Yang would likely have been most successful when recruiting among ethnic and national groups accustomed to communal living, especially those centered around labor-intensive crops such as rice, and the various apparatchiks of repressive regimes worldwide. By contrast, one might expect Deirdre’s faction to be peopled primarily by the citizens of developed countries given to environmental concerns. I’d expect Marsh to have done well recruiting among those raised among so-called “settler societies,” especially the United States, Canada, Australia, South Africa, and Israel.

Quote from: Yitzi
That would just mean they'd have less forces period; what they have would still be easier to support.
Ah! I see now.

Quote from: Yitzi
None of that is universal enough to be its SMAC-style ideology, though.
It’s not an ideology, but it is a governing style and a set of ethics, which comes very close. Van de Graaf is the “big man” of Western lore; the rancher, the jefe, the plantation owner. He is at once entrepreneur and king, but his aspirations are uniquely local. He is given license to set the rules and to break them, but he is expected to be the bulwark against the storm.

This is also something like the character of Nucky Thompson during the first season of Boardwalk Empire. Master of Atlantic City he might be, but only a small fish compared to the emerging crime rackets of his day. In Alpha Centauri parlance, van de Graaf is the shark to Morgan’s blue whale.

Quote from: Yitzi
Not really; each faction leader (at least among the original 7, and of the SMAX factions at least the aliens) can be seen both positively and negatively:
That’s certainly true, but as I’ve said before, I’m not sure whether it was the game that defined Yang well or simply players who later imposed a bit of sense on what was previously nonsensical.

I think it’s possible to see van de Graaf as somewhere along the spectrum. Ditto the others.

Pahlavi believes that the human race will not survive unless it short-circuits its way to the next evolutionary hurdle, but in her rush to get there, she may be dooming homo sapien to extinction.

Cobb and Cohen are working to understand the neurological changes being wrought by Chiron on the human body. It is also possible to view them merely as hackers of the mind.

Van de Graaf wants to demonstrate that independent colonies can survive on Planet and proposes that the trick is all in the level of organization and investment beforehand. While his emphasis on private property might not be alien to a Morganite, his meritocratic perspective certainly would be. On the flip side, he is a petty tyrant.

Marsh believes that the trick to surviving on Planet is for small, democratic bands of rovers to live in a manner attuned to the land. There is a laxity inherent in that, disposing his faction to theft and piracy.

Singh believes that every aspect of built society must be carefully calibrated to produce the desired behaviors. He is either a genius or a prison warden.

D’Almeida (Estado Novo) believes that a caste system based on concepts of service given and owed is the only way to develop a social structure capable of ensuring survival. At words, he reimposing a dark age because his arrangement is impossible without a social pyramid.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: JarlWolf on May 17, 2015, 11:26:14 AM
When have energy, will make ideas for factions. Will come back to read everything.

Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 17, 2015, 04:13:19 PM
Huzzah!
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 18, 2015, 11:12:20 PM
So, with the proviso that JarlWolf is going to offer new food for thought on this subject of factions, have we reached a critical mass from which we can proceed?

One open question that I still have is whether folks think that associating particular ideologies with distinctive (but not exclusive) national and religious identities would be useful. For example, stipulating that Yang especially well among East and Southeast Asian colonists, as well as the apparatchiks of Communist countries, while Deirdre tended to pick up the same people who vote green in Western Europe today?

The next step, after that, is to settle on whether the game would benefit from any alternate history (e.g., Russia stays Communist after 1991) or if we should restrict efforts to "future history" only. I then intend to start posting segments of my proposed future history for critique.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on May 18, 2015, 11:29:57 PM
So, with the proviso that JarlWolf is going to offer new food for thought on this subject of factions, have we reached a critical mass from which we can proceed?

One open question that I still have is whether folks think that associating particular ideologies with distinctive (but not exclusive) national and religious identities would be useful. For example, stipulating that Yang especially well among East and Southeast Asian colonists, as well as the apparatchiks of Communist countries, while Deirdre tended to pick up the same people who vote green in Western Europe today?

I think a weak association would work very well, but a solid "nationality X is always of faction Y" would not work at all.

Quote
The next step, after that, is to settle on whether the game would benefit from any alternate history (e.g., Russia stays Communist after 1991) or if we should restrict efforts to "future history" only. I then intend to start posting segments of my proposed future history for critique.

We have to change astronomical fact (IIRC, we now know that Alpha Centauri A has no habitable planets), so alternate history isn't such a big deal.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: JarlWolf on May 19, 2015, 03:11:18 AM
Read through posts. Looked.

I know person who is helping me who can help with voice acting for faction blurb. He did audio work for my AAR which I will at some point release. I will message his email to you after this.

Concept idea for factions and observation,

Hunters of Chiron should be more focused on survival as a whole, while Santiago was more focused on military dominance. Hunters of Chiron should be fairly safeguarded, vigilant communities that are wary and distrustful of the local wildlife, and perhaps want to terraform fairly fast.

Bonuses would be increased terraforming speed, 1+ support due to communal supports and adaptive citizens, 20% defence bonus. Free perimeter defence.

Disadvantages would include, -2 Planet due to their destructive attitude to the local wildlife, -1 police due to rather independent communities and the need for people's security, as they will demand protection.

I imagine this faction as frontier survivors who are concerned with survival, building community. They would likely have aversion to green as its prohibitive of their expansion. They would would have no real preferences of what they like as they are willing to adopt any system, maybe power if you wish to choose.

As for how aggressive they are, normal. They aren't overly aggressive, aggression is tool to be used wisely.

Human Ascendancy is more focused on genetics, it is very much like Sigmas Genearch faction. Faction seems fairly fine as it stands, it varies from the blind pursuit of knowledge and instead focuses on human physiological perfection. Should not grow heavy in population, should be very controlling of population growth and taking great care for developing human fetus and growth of population and traits found. Very rigorous observation, may even be police state. Maybe not as authoritarian in other matters, however and quite liberal. Brave new world inference. 

If anything, it is much like Yang's hive, except instead of social engineering experimentation, it is defining the best physiological development for humans.

Bonuses should be;

2+ talent, faction devotes itself to developing potential of citizens, of honing physical condition, rigorously testing them.
1+ Efficiency, faction is very efficient as faction strives for efficiency and perfecting its own methods.
 -1 Growth, due to strict genetic controls and planning people do not reproduce as fast as normal, as it is highly regulated.
 -2 Support, the amount of time, dedication and resources to develop population and individual potential is complex and expensive. Well planned, but the expenses prohibit rapid expansion.

Aversion to fundamentalist. Preference, Eudaimonic.

Estado Novo should use terms carefully more. Fascism is not intentionally made in mind with caste system, as fascism is to promote a group identity and conformity to serve a leadership, exclusive to others outside their own group. Society is fine, but should go into detail why they cling to tradition so much and revert to feudalistic castes. What is reason they did this? What prompted this on Chiron?

Ideas for them? Perhaps there is new wave of Abrahamic or other religion, new generation of and they have a prophet or messiah of some sort dictating new scripture. Perhaps they believe that specializing into caste will produce better results for society, rather then allowing liberty to fail in other applications.

Bonuses:
1/3 drone penalty due to severe disparity of social castes.
Starts with Doctrine Mobility.
1+ Morale due to dedicated and highly professional fighters.

Aversion to democracy. Possible choice of power, fundamentalist, police state for preferred.

Issues with the Dreamers of Chiron is you seem to have many authoritarian factions.

For them obvious preferred is thought control. Something still seems off with this faction, as to why it would form with willing followers to start with. Perhaps reforming faction into Utilitarian thrill seekers that unwittingly become enslaved to power holder due to sheer amount of addiction to pleasure and thrill? Their premise being that humanity tried to avert from its base desires too much and did not release tension, and they seek to live a happy life.

Initial thoughts. Will think more... do you want me to come up with faction ideas separate of these or expand upon current existing?

Edit: Communist or socialist faction should be approached with caution- avoid cliches, departures from actual ideal. My own Crimson Comrades is example of possible communist faction that still carries some tradition of former powers but is clear to differentiate itself from past regimes.




Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 19, 2015, 03:28:48 AM
Quote from: Yitzi
I think a weak association would work very well, but a solid "nationality X is always of faction Y" would not work at all.

I'm in complete agreement. Any suggestions?

The University of Planet: The Scientist. Recruited well among colonists from Germany, Russia, and Japan.
The Stepdaughters of Gaia: The Ecologist. Recruited well among colonists from developed nations, especially Western Europe.
The Lord's Conclave: The Prophet. Recruited well among Americans, sub-Saharan Africans, and South Americans.
Morgan Industries: The Mogul. Recruited well among colonists from developed nations.
The Peacekeepers: The Diplomat. Presumably appealed most to colonists from the western democracies.
The Spartan Federation: The Survivalist. Strongest appeal in the United States and Canada among "prepper" societies and Holnist enclaves.
The Human Labyrinth: The Despot. Strongest appeal was to colonists from communal societies of Southeast Asia as well as the apparatchiks of totalitarian regimes, especially Russia and China.
The Hunters of Chiron: The Hunter. Especially popular among colonists recruited from "settler" societies, especially: the United States, Canada, Australia, and South Africa.
The New Two Thousand: The Empresario. ?
The Human Ascendancy: The Eugenicist. Popular among colonists from the U.S., U.K., France, Russia, the Benelux, and Japan.
The Dreamers of Chiron: The Drug Lord. Popular among colonists from Europe and Hong Kong.
Archimedes' Exiles: The Planner. Popular among social democracies.
Novo Estado: The Monarch. Popular among colonists from the least-developed nations.

Quote from: Yitzi
We have to change astronomical fact (IIRC, we now know that Alpha Centauri A has no habitable planets), so alternate history isn't such a big deal.

At some point, it was honestly easier for me to riff off known history than an alternate history. The alpha version of this simulation, which I ran last year, stipulated that Europe had retained many of its colonies into the early 2000s.

Here is the first part of the alternate history. I'd love some input.

A Brief History of Failure
This is the story of two expeditions. Two visions of a brighter tomorrow. Two odysseys, each with the same purpose, and yet different in almost every way. The first was a mission of discovery, launched at the height of our pride. The second mission was exodus: in desperation, we fled the world we had seemingly destroyed for one that might yet destroy us.

Part I: Excelsior!
The twentieth century closed on a high note for Western civilization – “the end of history,” Francis Fukuyama famously called it. Liberal democracy and market capitalism had triumphed. Our leaders spoke grandly of a New World Order in which tyranny would give way to liberty, conflict to settlement, fear to hope. After our long, twilight struggle, we looked forward to a durable “peace dividend” and the comfort of ideological consensus. Rather than engage in self-immolation, the superpowers would instead deploy their wealth, influence, and scientific know-how in the common interest of all mankind. War, scarcity, hunger, disease – injustice itself – could be banished to the distant, regrettable past.

For one hundred years afterward, we made good on the promise implicit in the end of the Cold War. We tamed our baser instincts and reconciled ourselves as the common residents – later, stewards – of a global commons called Earth. With swords made ploughshares, we gained steadily in both our understanding and mastery of the world around us. Satellites and mobile computing revolutionized communication and made possible the unprecedented sharing of information and ideas. A wave of popular revolutions swept the globe in short order, courtesy of the huddled masses, yearning to breathe free. Rapid advances in the life sciences meant that we remained healthier while living longer. Between gene therapy, stem cell, and medical cybernetics, we banished not only a range of ailments, but of disabilities also. The hungry feasted on genetically-engineered crops during times of drought while the thirsty drank desalinated water when their aquifers ran dry. Fracking technology nailed a stake in fears that we were about to reach “Peak Oil.” Fifth-generation nuclear power and dramatic investments in renewable energy (along with not a little harsh regulation) lessened fears that we were poised on the brink of climatological catastrophe.

Not that we were perfect, by any means. Too often, the free peoples of the world sacrificed principle on the altar of comfort and liberty on the altar of security. The rich became richer and the “global middle class” burgeoned, but the poorest remained poor, and for these, life remained solitary, nasty, brutish, and short. We fretted about how to put the nuclear genie back in the bottle, and yet new nations, some grossly unstable, ascended to the once-exclusive club, while others that had already split the atom fell backwards into chaos, the safety of their arsenals imperiled. We continued to pursue our petty conflicts and focus on that which divided us. The end of the Cold War unleashed a flurry of ethno-religious conflicts that often seemed even more acrimonious than the ideological competition that had come before. Millions watched on television, gawping at the pace and ferocity of killing in Yugoslavia, Zaire, and the Caucasus. In trying to manage these early crises, the newly-minted American hyper-power stumbled more often than it succeeded. With more goodwill than good judgment, the international community fell into and out of messy wars in the Middle East, Africa, and the Near Abroad. By 2050, it seemed that our attempts to “drain the swamp” had actually produced a flood surge. It was another decade before, beginning with localized successes in newly-independent Kurdistan, that local governments turned the corner and embraced the more inclusive forms of governance calculated to reduce faction. The European Union, regularly diagnosed as “the Sick Man,” lurched from one financial crisis to the next and frequently appeared likely to dissolve amidst acrimony between an eastern half still clamoring for NATO protection and a western half happily gorging itself on the ruble. Meanwhile, in Russia, criminal oligarchy hardened to autocracy under supervision of men like Vladimir Putin, former apparatchiks in the Soviet security services. Following an expensive adventure in Eastern Ukraine in 2014 and a more successful invasion of Estonia two years later, Moscow settled into a new cold war with its traditional adversaries to the west. Eastward, the American Pivot to the Pacific engendered martial brinksmanship with the Chinese so that, by the 2060s, the United States Navy and the People’s Liberation Army Navy were skirmishing regularly in the Philippine and South China Seas. Although it would lose its entire blue water capability (including three carriers of its own) and suffer serious damage to key industrial centers, China would claim victory after sinking two U.S. carrier battlegroups with hypersonic missiles when the games of naval “chicken” first went “hot” in 2067. These renewed tensions between East and West contributed to NATO expansion on a global scale. The Global Treaty Organization (GTO), an alliance of North American, European, and Asian democracies pledged “containment” of Russian and Chinese territorial ambitions. For a time, it seemed that economic and political competition would soon give way to total war. But they did not. Indeed, these low notes remained exceptions to the general rule of forward progress. Instances of satellite and ‘Net warfare caused brief crises (and significant damage to the digitized economies of the world), but such contests appeared self-regulating. It was as if all but the most radical were afraid to take matters too far into the retrograde. By the end of the twenty-first century, we, the people of Earth, had become more numerous, healthier, smarter, and more self-confident. Our human capacity for barbarism and bloody-mindedness could still shock only because Jekyll visited less and less often, leaving fewer and fewer dead in his wake.


Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 19, 2015, 06:29:33 AM
JarlWolf, many thanks for your input! I am tremendously grateful.

I am happy to accept your introduction to somebody who can help with faction voice work.

Please keep in mind that I am designing a forum-based simulation rather than factions for use in the original game. For that reason, bonuses are purely conceptual. They help to capture what the faction might “feel” like to play, but they won’t translate into simulation mechanics in precisely the same way that they would in the original computer game.

Quote from: JarlWolf
Hunters of Chiron should be more focused on survival as a whole, while Santiago was more focused on military dominance. Hunters of Chiron should be fairly safeguarded, vigilant communities that are wary and distrustful of the local wildlife, and perhaps want to terraform fairly fast.
I just want to make sure that we are all on the same page regarding the distinctions between survival, survivalism, and the kind of society envisioned by Santiago. Survival is the literal act of successfully eeking out a living on Chiron. That is, not succumbing to the hostile natural environment. Every faction leader has a specific opinion about what is required to do that. I think we agree that Marsh believes that every faction member needs to cultivate a certain amount of savvy with respect to negotiating Chiron’s harshness – and unlike Lady Deirdre, he doesn’t expect that harmony will always prevail.

Survivalism, for the purposes of this game, is a philosophy that emphasizes preparing for an independent, self-sufficient existence, usually by means of arming oneself with military-grade weapons and hoarding food, water, and ammunition. For historical reasons that will be explained in the background materials, survivalism, as a political philosophy and as a lifestyle, is usually associated with Holnism (a nod to author David Brin), which is a kind of pseudo-libertarian, anti-government philosophy that arose as a backlash against modernity and technocracy. Especially popular among libertarian extremists, Holnist teachings were often invoked as a fig leaf to excuse sociopathic violence perpetrated by the strong against the weak under conditions of anarchy. For this reason, “Survivalism” is a pejorative term. One generally does not want to be labeled a “survivalist.”

Holnists look a lot like the American Patriot and militia movements of the 1990s: they live “off the grid” in small, nominally self-sufficient communities of like-minded persons with similar political beliefs, usually emphasizing the illegitimacy of putative authority figures from the federal down to the local levels. They aspire to be gentlemen farmers but are more likely to live off the carefully-curated byproducts emblematic of the commercial society they claim to disdain. More often than not, their communities include numerous blood relations whose allegiance to one another is personal as much as ideological. While they usually aspire to a martial lifestyle in which the primary commandment is to be ready to bear arms in defense of the homstead – camouflage and tactical gear are ubiquitous – most groups merely “play soldier.” (It’s one thing to take orders when you know that weekly drill ends promptly at 5:30 so that you can get back to your beer, but another to live under the discipline of somebody whose leadership is not necessarily considered sacrosanct.)

Some significant percentage of Survivalists proved more than mere nuisances. Many cadres were led by sociopaths who occupied themselves solely with the wanton slaughter of innocents, the taking of neighbors as slaves, and the consumption of alcohol and drugs in huge quantities.  When they were not skirmishing with government security forces, they were forcing their will on communities with fewer gunmen.

Santiago’s outfit represents a kind of evolution on the bog standard Survivalist. Her people are every bit as prepared to take advantage of their fellows, but they differ in reconciliation to martial discipline. The Holnists played at war for the sake of gratifying both their vanities and their appetites. The Spartans have established a strict martial framework for “right living” in order to maintain a certain minimum level of vigilance, fitness, cohesion, and capability that they believe will be essential to long-term survival of the species. Much of the Spartan player’s job in game terms will be sorting the Spartan wheat from the Holnist/Survivalist chaff.


Quote from: JarlWolf
Bonuses would be increased terraforming speed, 1+ support due to communal supports and adaptive citizens, 20% defence bonus. Free perimeter defence.

So far, so good.
 
Quote from: JarlWolf
Disadvantages would include, -2 Planet due to their destructive attitude to the local wildlife, -1 police due to rather independent communities and the need for people's security, as they will demand protection.
I can’t honestly see a malus to Planet. Perhaps structures and units would be more costly? I could certainly see negative modifiers to Industry and Growth, reflecting the Hunters’ semi-nomadic lifestyle.
 
Quote from: JarlWolf
I imagine this faction as frontier survivors who are concerned with survival, building community. They would likely have aversion to green as its prohibitive of their expansion. They would would have no real preferences of what they like as they are willing to adopt any system, maybe power if you wish to choose.

As for how aggressive they are, normal. They aren't overly aggressive, aggression is tool to be used wisely.

I think they’d be more likely to be in tune with Planet than any faction other than Deidre’s.

Quote from: JarlWolf
Human Ascendancy is more focused on genetics, it is very much like Sigmas Genearch faction. Faction seems fairly fine as it stands, it varies from the blind pursuit of knowledge and instead focuses on human physiological perfection. Should not grow heavy in population, should be very controlling of population growth and taking great care for developing human fetus and growth of population and traits found. Very rigorous observation, may even be police state. Maybe not as authoritarian in other matters, however and quite liberal. Brave new world inference. 

If anything, it is much like Yang's hive, except instead of social engineering experimentation, it is defining the best physiological development for humans.
I completely agree. Your proposed bonuses and maluses look good, too. I’d say, however, that the preference is Power, not Eudaimonic.

Quote from: JarlWolf
Estado Novo should use terms carefully more. Fascism is not intentionally made in mind with caste system, as fascism is to promote a group identity and conformity to serve a leadership, exclusive to others outside their own group. Society is fine, but should go into detail why they cling to tradition so much and revert to feudalistic castes. What is reason they did this? What prompted this on Chiron?
I think the idea is that settlement is being equate with a new Dark Age. The original storyline was that the Unity XO, a Portuguese named Francisco D’Almeida, theorized that there should be a direct correlation between an individual’s potential contribution to a future colony and his enjoyment of its fruits. (This idea is further reflected in the idea that the upper castes are also subject to various social controls that help sustain the born aristocracy, whereas those with less significant duties are allowed to run amok as they will.

Quote from: JarlWolf
Issues with the Dreamers of Chiron is you seem to have many authoritarian factions.

I’m open to other options, although I must insist that the Dreamers were intended to be run in part by a genius businessman. There is an element of authoritarianism to it.

The thrill seekers option is a good one, but I think that would be only the general means of recruitment. Presumably, Cobb would have his own retainers standing by to supplement the ranks.

Please do come up with separate faction ideas. I’m very open.

With respect to socialism/communism, I do intend to explore (A) the potential counter-coup that might have kept the Soviets in the running a few more years, at least; and (B) a scenario in which either true monarchy or Communist rule are restored over Russia, leading to problems for the Western allies.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: JarlWolf on May 19, 2015, 09:55:20 AM
Further thoughts on hunters, make hem have slower population growth due to rugged lifestyle instead of minus to planet if you wish. Reason why I state minus to planet is that in game, having negatives to planet would be GOOD for faction, because negative planet means you anger planet more. Angry planet sends more mindworms. More mindworms for them to kill= more planet pearls, thus stimulating economy more. Mechanical choice for gameplay to help support lore.



I think communist faction should not be based off of Russian politic. Russian politics has right now, heavy basis on nationalism with minor focuses on welfare. My country has always had somewhat autocratic focus on regimes and is not fair to socialist ideals at large due to cultural nature of country.


Socialist faction that could arise is perhaps is a workers commune derived from disgruntled industrial workers who want to escape demagogues that want to dictate them. They split from main parties (somewhat like Free Drones) and form communal havens that are focused on sharing resources and caring for one another, welfare state that everyone works towards.

Could call them,

The Communal Haven, The Commune for short.

Their bonuses:

1+ growth, families of working class men are encouraged to grow, state and community supports young families and takes care of elderly and injured.

Free Prototypes: The Commune isn't restrained by a centralized overbearing bureaucracy/major ideological base camp, and this allows workers in the field to come up with new, non standardized designs and implement them without problems.

-1 Morale, The Commune does not like to fight and risk their lives, they wanted to get away from all the ideological conflicts and largely be on their own, they want to work and support their families and grow in peace.

Aversion to Free Market, as its exploitative of the working class and derogative to them. Preferred is democracy, they prefer to keep their society fairly independent and their leadership as elected, chosen representatives.



Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 19, 2015, 11:16:33 PM
I was indeed thinking that the Hunters would be on the smaller side. I'd guess that the largest factions might be the Conclave (religious emphasis on procreation), the Estado Novo (in order to ensure an adequate labor supply, peons are encouraged to have large families), and the Labyrinth (cast-offs from forced breeding programs are destined either for the drone bays or the killing fields, so he isn't worried about having too many mouths to feed). I'd say that factions on the smaller side would include the Hunters, the Ascendancy, and the Dreamers. The Spartans, too, although largely because Santiago would have landed with a relatively small force of stowaways relative to the number of expedition survivors overall.

I do think it would be fun to have a Soviet-style faction, and in fact my alternate history does provide for the resurgence of exactly the kind of ultra-nationalist Communism in Russia that you describe (following a period of prolonged authoritarianism under Putin and like-minded successors). I suppose I could go in a very different direction and instead go with a monarchy as the logical pinnacle of hypernationalistic "thug-o-cracy." I'm amenable to that.

Sure, there's room for a communist faction. Am I correct to understand that your version of communism isn't actually based on the philosophies of Karl Marx? Let's assume for a moment that the liberation of workers elsewhere means nothing to this proposed faction (which is, I think, what you have tried to say) -- that it's essentially an insular kibbutz. I think, at some point, that faction would be struggling to figure out how to overcome the inherent limitations on risk-taking that exist in a society where all property is communal.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 20, 2015, 04:54:51 AM
Very roughly speaking with respect to the timeline and "future" history...

The history that I have written thus far can best be conceived of in X stages, each with a different theme.

In the first stage, I tell the story of the Second Renaissance, a flowering of Western culture, including scientific revolution, until about 2100. During this time, Chiron is discovered and an expedition organized and dispatched under the auspices of a NATO successor organization, the Global Treaty Organization. This expedition was launched with the benefit of much careful planning. It represents humanity at the height of its achievement.

In the second stage of the story, things go sour for the colonists on Planet. Contact with Earth is lost and a plague destroys the original colony, forcing the survivors to scatter under the leadership of various different leaders.

In the third stage of the story, we learn that Earth has experienced a precipitous backslide into calamity (complete with multiple nuclear detonations) that will ultimately end with what appears to be the certain destruction of Planet Earth.

The fourth stage of the story deals with Unity on the stocks. We examine why the expedition is so peculiar. The Probe launched amidst raucous celebration; Unity launches under a cloud of pessimism about Earth's final days. It is juxtaposed with the Chiron Interstellar Probe, which was launched under dramatically different circumstances.

The fifth stage of the story is that of Unity's arrival in the Alpha Centauri system and its early experiences on Planet.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: JarlWolf on May 20, 2015, 07:01:17 AM
I was indeed thinking that the Hunters would be on the smaller side. I'd guess that the largest factions might be the Conclave (religious emphasis on procreation), the Estado Novo (in order to ensure an adequate labor supply, peons are encouraged to have large families), and the Labyrinth (cast-offs from forced breeding programs are destined either for the drone bays or the killing fields, so he isn't worried about having too many mouths to feed). I'd say that factions on the smaller side would include the Hunters, the Ascendancy, and the Dreamers. The Spartans, too, although largely because Santiago would have landed with a relatively small force of stowaways relative to the number of expedition survivors overall.

I do think it would be fun to have a Soviet-style faction, and in fact my alternate history does provide for the resurgence of exactly the kind of ultra-nationalist Communism in Russia that you describe (following a period of prolonged authoritarianism under Putin and like-minded successors). I suppose I could go in a very different direction and instead go with a monarchy as the logical pinnacle of hypernationalistic "thug-o-cracy." I'm amenable to that.

Sure, there's room for a communist faction. Am I correct to understand that your version of communism isn't actually based on the philosophies of Karl Marx? Let's assume for a moment that the liberation of workers elsewhere means nothing to this proposed faction (which is, I think, what you have tried to say) -- that it's essentially an insular kibbutz. I think, at some point, that faction would be struggling to figure out how to overcome the inherent limitations on risk-taking that exist in a society where all property is communal.

This is theorem of mine but I see the rise of communes in colonies to rise in confederal fashions due to distances, and the relative autonomy such settlements would develop from each other. City states that effectively work together due to shared ideal and methods of operation in tight alliance, but still independent of one another. Regionalist Communism if you will over nationalist due to the independence of towns who wouldn't like to be ruled over by a central power. Internationalist communism/socialist regime/organization would require some sort of reliable worldwide communication to occur.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 21, 2015, 02:06:20 AM
Yes, that makes good sense, but again, how would those societies overcome the limitations inherent in an arrangement where all property is communal? Presumably, they'd suffer penalties to innovation, and possibly to efficiency as well, the incentive to work being reduced because all gains are more or less evenly distributed. You're not going to get outliers who might otherwise form a small but hyper-productive elite. I'd also be curious about how such societies would make and enforce common decisions. Wouldn't there be a worry that agents appointed by popular consensus would slowly grow entrenched? Not that these prevent such a faction from being as viable as any of the others. All are imperfect, like every human institution.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 21, 2015, 02:13:23 AM
Hmm.  If you think of bases as arcologies -large single buildings- the answer to a lot of those questions could be "they don't have a lot of other options"...

It's not Earth - having to take your air with you and figure out something workable about food raises the difficulty/expense/complication of striking out on your own by roughly an order of magnitude.  That's probably the only reason various factions are so politically stable, too.  Not a lot of other options than the setup you started with.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 22, 2015, 11:12:05 PM
I'd guess that the Chiron Probe crews would have acclimated to Chiron's nitrogen-rich atmosphere by the time the Unity arrives so many years later.

I wouldn't think that most factions would feature arcologies, although I could be underestimating the hostility of Chiron's natural environment.

One of the ideas recently proposed was to start one year after the Unity crew make Planetfall, allowing time for rudimentary global trade and communication to kick up.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 26, 2015, 01:14:25 PM
Still zeroed in on the background material. If folks could help me chew on the following questions, I'd be most grateful:

1. What should be done about the decades-long, perhaps century-long, gap between the two missions, Chiron Probe and Unity? Are the current-day faction leaders of the Probe legacy factions the distant descendants of the original officers and crew, or is some other factor in play? Perhaps humanity achieves biological immortality by 2100? Does something about Chiron dramatically reduce the negative health impact of human aging?

2. Assume a technological and cultural renaissance from 2000 to 2100. What kinds of technologies and social movements are likely to appear? Medically, I've got: gene therapy, stem cell, and medical cybernetics breakthroughs leading to dramatic reductions in global mortality rates and the near-elimination of disability. Eventually, we reap the ultimate reward of a healthier society: reduced healthcare costs. Obviously, there will be some who refuse the most-invasive techniques and reject cures based on fetal stem cells. With respect to planetary engineering, I envision the widespread use of genetically-modified organisms, including patented insects and patented pollens, along with "resurrection" of species in the fossil record. For energy, there's fracking, fifth-generation nuclear power, grid-scale batteries, and improvements to industrial control systems resulting in adaptive, self-healing systems. During this century, we successfully explore the oceans and rain forests so that, by 2090, more than a half-billion people live below sea-level (although not necessarily underwater). We also build semi-permanent stations on both the Moon and Mars. Should I add anything else? Do we reach biological immortality in this timeframe?

3. The Chiron Probe settlements eke out a living for about one year, spending most of that time bitterly divided by ideological disagreement, then collapse into disorder when a plague annihilates most of the colonists.

4. The basic idea for the background is 100 years of celebratory advancement, culminating in the Chiron Probe, followed by 50 years of backsliding and another 50 or 100 years of total catastrophe, mostly man-made. A lot of social backlash to modernity. The U.S. falters, then takes everybody else with it, and nuclear weapons begin to be used so that the planet experiences a short, sharp nuclear winter. Eventually, our world poisoned, we take off in Unity for Chiron.

I'd like to set up some kind of real-time discussion forum to vet pieces of background about once a week or so. We could do that on Skype or IRC. I'm open to suggestions in terms of what is easiest for everyone. Or we could just have a very lively discussion here, which I'd be glad of.

All right! Thanks!
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Geo on May 29, 2015, 11:33:12 PM
I'd guess that the Chiron Probe crews would have acclimated to Chiron's nitrogen-rich atmosphere by the time the Unity arrives so many years later.

I wouldn't think that most factions would feature arcologies, although I could be underestimating the hostility of Chiron's natural environment.

Its not only the higher partial pressure amount of the nitrogen in Chiron's atmosphere. Its the higher total amount of atmospheric pressure, combined with the 30% higher gravity, that gives unprotected people 'the bends' and ultimately results in their deaths. And of course the oxygen percentage of Chiron's atmosphere is lower as well, though IIRC the particle amount of oxygen in Chiron's atmosphere is roughly the same as Earth's.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 29, 2015, 11:49:35 PM
Wouldn't the bends only happen if you went inside too fast?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Geo on May 30, 2015, 12:11:08 AM
The game's lore keeps mentioning nitrogen narcosis and gasping death, so I gather its not exactly healthy for people to go outdoors unmasked.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 30, 2015, 12:45:35 AM
High nitrogen pressure does result in the bends - but only if you decompress in normal too quickly.

Actually, it would end up killing or crippling a lot of people who had to get inside in a hurry in a crisis.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 31, 2015, 02:44:41 AM
Figure they'd acclimate eventually, no?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 31, 2015, 03:06:42 AM
A genetic modification ought to be possible, and a full pressure suit ought to work - but the former would be unacceptable to some factions like the Believers, and the latter would be expensive and cumbersome.  In large part people would likely make do with minimal breathing gear - and sometimes get the bends.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on May 31, 2015, 03:53:52 AM
A genetic modification ought to be possible

And might be what the Pholus Mutagen is...
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on May 31, 2015, 04:46:56 AM
More history. I welcome constructive criticism.

I'd greatly appreciate if folks could assist with the description of Chiron as well as critique of the Second Renaissance and the fitting out of the Chiron Interstellar Probe. What technologies am I missing? What would be sent to Chiron on the first mission of exploration and settlement?

I'd also like to introduce concepts from a friend's creation, called Escape Velocity (not to be confused with the old videogame by Ambrosia Software). You can check it out here: http://escape-velocity.wikia.com/wiki/Society_and_Culture (http://escape-velocity.wikia.com/wiki/Society_and_Culture)

A Brief History of Failure

This is the story of two expeditions. Two visions of a brighter tomorrow. Two odysseys, similar in purpose, yet different in almost every other way. The first was a mission of discovery, launched at the height of our pride. The second was an act of desperation, undertaken because we had no other choice. We fled the world we had seemingly destroyed for one that might yet destroy us.

Part I: The Long, Twilight Struggle

The twentieth century closed on a high note for the West – “the end of history,” Francis Fukuyama famously called it. Liberal democracy and the Free Market had triumphed over Communist dictatorship. Western leaders spoke grandly of a New World Order in which tyranny would give way inevitably to liberty, conflict to settlement, fear to hope. After their long, twilight struggle, citizens of the Western world looked forward to a durable “peace dividend” and the comfort of what they took to be worldwide ideological consensus. Even where autocrats appeared firmly entrenched, Western observers luxuriated in the certainty that the lure of participation in cosmopolitan culture, combined with the presumptively inherent impulse for self-government that had gradually undermined the Soviet project, would soon enough spur the oppressed everywhere to demand freedoms both political and economic. Russia was eating Pizza Hut. Students in China were staring down tanks. Soon, even the Ayatollahs would drink Coca-Cola. Our petty differences finally put behind us, the international community would soon apply itself to the highest of high pursuits, deploying the global fund of wealth, influence, and scientific know-how in the common interest of all mankind. War, scarcity, hunger, disease – injustice itself – could be banished to the distant, regrettable past.

For one hundred years, and against mighty odds, the international community, led by the United States and the European Union, labored to execute this project. By and large, we succeeded. It was not easy. There was no shortage of problems in the twenty-first century, some new, and others hideously familiar. The impersonal clash of ideologies quickly gave way to bitterly personal killing, sometimes on our very doorsteps – “A Problem from Hell,” one researcher memorably called it. The Russian economy collapsed on take-off while the Japanese miracle reversed itself seemingly overnight. Globalization and the rise of developing economies opened new markets and exercised downward pressure on prices while at the same time hollowing out the industrial economies of the West at the same time that its aging populations began making greater demands for services. The United Nations proved as feckless and divided in 1999 and 2050 as it had in 1990 and 1970. The list went on: militant Islam and global jihad, territorial irredentism, nuclear proliferation, the threats of technological holocaust brought on by dependence upon infrastructure that was overly complex, and the advent of “special war,” which made a mockery not only of front lines, but political reality itself.   

We stumbled. Sometimes badly. Our best intentions were hardly good enough: the lessons of history might be on our side, but there were some who would fight to prevent the advance of modernity, and as many as millions prepared to follow them. Rather than ask when the cannonballs would stop flying, we began to wonder, “At what cost?” We lacked the courage of our convictions. We stood by in silent witness to famine, genocide, and state failure. The world watched in 1994 as Rwandan militia slaughtered Belgian peacekeepers, in 1995 as Serbian paramilitaries disarmed Dutch soldiers sent to police a “safe area,” and in 2019 when Chinese troops refused to prevent Sudanese government troops and their paramilitary allies from slaughtering South Sudanese civilians in a refugee camp in the disputed region of Abyei. Our distaste for rogue regimes was outweighed by our aversion to sacrifice: too often, we sacrificed at the altar of comfort when we should have sacrificed at the altar of conviction.

We were quick to judge, and quicker to forgot. Having disavowed the bloody history of state formation in the West, we gawped at the intensity of sectarian struggle in the Third World, often wasting blood and treasure on half-hearted interventions that failed to contend with the fact that political change has always inspired violent resistance. With more goodwill than good judgment, the international community fell into and out of bloody wars in the Middle East, Africa, and the Near Abroad, often leaving the situation worse than they had found it. Kurdistan, born 2016, was only to be the first of the West’s “illegitimate” children. We paid the iron price for bouts of isolationism born of self-righteous exhaustion on the part of the hegemon, when Americans pretended, for a while at least, that they could abdicate global leadership without inviting disaster. The rich became richer and a global middle class grew steadily larger, but the poorest remained poor, and for these, life was never anything else but solitary, nasty, brutish, and short.

There were echoes of the past, sometimes strong enough to beg the question of whether we had really progressed very far at all. Beginning with adoption of a common currency in the 1990s, the European Union lurched almost habitually from one financial crisis to the next, forsaking collective security on the altar of financial austerity. Africa and the Middle East continued to fall into and out of wars to rationalize borders and power-brokers bequeathed to them by departing European colonialists a century earlier. In post-Communist Russia, criminal oligarchy hardened to autocracy as the former apparatchiks of the Soviet security services complete their consolidation of power. Fattened by oil revenues, the Russian bear reawakened to its habitual taste for smaller neighbors. Moscow’s “little green men” were soon trading pot-shots with private security forces hired by Western European governments to fight wars that their coddled constituents could no longer stomach.

The Soviet Union was gone by 1991, but the first era of American hyperpower was already over by 2025. Already, observers sensed that the reigning hegemon was about to be challenged by “Rising China.” War was made virtually certain when, in 2038, with Chinese saber-rattling reaching a fever pitch, the U.S. inaugurated the Global Treaty Organization, a coalition of Asian democracies looking to contain the young dragon. The GTO would strike a tense truce with the aspiring Asian hegemon in 2047 following a costly undeclared war both at sea and in cyber space – a series of exchanges that so distressed the global economy as to humble both combatants. China was humiliated, her blue-water navy sunk, and the Communist Party beset by waves of nationalist riots, albeit at the cost of two American carrier battle groups.

The bearing of such burdens was never easy, and those who fancied themselves the standard-bearers of liberal-democratic values grappled mightily with the questions of where and how to spend finite resources at a time when, even as the world seemed to be crumbling around them, so many of their own neighbors were hungry, infirm, and out of work. The citizens of developing nations in turn struggled to adapt to models of society, economy, and government handed down to them from on high – for many, only the latest in a long, unbroken string of humiliations. Yet, in the end, we counted more blessings than we did curses.

Part II: The Second Renaissance

Beginning with the Arab Spring of 2011 and continuing at a fast clip through 2070, a wave of popular revolutions swept the globe, continuing the trend begun in Eastern Europe two decades prior. Where at first those democratic growing pains did not succeed, they tried and tried again, and if these newly-liberalizing regimes were not always at the most stable or peaceful in their youth, they did eventually grow more pacific with time. Throughout the new century, we gained steadily in our understanding and mastery of the world around us, as well as in our mutual understanding of one another. Even where the blood had flowed liberally, compromise seemed a near-universal constant by 2050 so that it was as if the human appetite for violence, once thought insatiable, had simply been exhausted. Our capacity for barbarism could still shock only because Jekyll visited less and less often, leaving fewer and fewer dead in his wake.

Any number of social scientists later attempted to explain this phenomenon. Some pointed to a lessening, not in fact a wholesale abandonment, of violence. Others contended that global society was merely entering a new phase of balance: quiet was a signal, though long in coming, that the grass trampled by the U.S. and Soviet elephants was finally standing straight again. Still more found truck with the idea that the various disputants suddenly discovering common ground were motivated not by exhaustion or even satisfaction with the prevailing status-quo, but rather a desire to partake of the increasingly appealing fruits reserved for those minded to follow the “rules” of international citizenship. Fanciful as such hypotheses might be, they bore a certain whiff of truth.

Satellites and the World Wide Web revolutionized communication in the later part of the twentieth century, but it was advances in mobile computing, made at the onset of the twenty-first, that facilitated the truly instantaneous sharing of information and ideas, and led thereby to a flowering of scientific thought and exploratory endeavor commonly referred to as the Second Renaissance.

Progress was made on all fronts. In the medical arena, researchers made signal advances in gene therapy, stem cell, and medical cybernetics, we banished some diseases, dramatically reduced the mortality rate of others, and succeeded in correcting for many once-harrowing disabilities. As with most advances, the benefits were concentrated primarily in the developed West, but once-prohibitive healthcare costs steadily declined as each generation proved healthier than the last. If we had entered the century on unsteady legs, we were preparing to leave it more numerous, healthier, smarter, and more self-confident than ever before.

Man continued to engage in the planetary engineering begun during the previous century, only now on a much-increased scale. The hungry feasted on genetically-engineered crops during times of drought while the thirsty drank desalinated water when their aquifers ran dry. Patented insects spread patented pollens while laboratories resurrected plants and animals that had never before been seen by man.

We fomented a series of revolutions in the generation, transmission, and distribution of energy resources. Fracking technology nailed a stake in the mythology of “Peak Oil,” while not long after, fifth-generation nuclear power and the advent of grid-scale batteries dramatically lessened concerns that mankind was destined for climatological catastrophe. Despite the increasing incidence of natural disasters and industrial accidents (a reflection, perhaps, that there was simply more than ever to destroy), there were complementary advances in industrial control systems, leading to the advent of adaptive, self-healing systems that could reliably withstand such challenges.

Among the many interests indulged during this era was our ancient enthusiasm for exploration. Having saved the rain forests and spared the oceans, we set out to comb them, every inch. By 2090, more than a half-billion people lived below sea level on land reclaimed from the world’s oceans within the past fifty years. Hundreds of thousands lived on densely-packed artificial islands. The sea floor was studded with tidal generators, kelp farms, and automated mines.

At the same time that we explored the world beneath, we also sought to reach the stars. We built several semi-permanent stations on the Moon and Mars during the twenty-first century. By the twenty-second, humans were actively mining asteroids throughout the Main Belt and aspiring to still more besides.

Part III: Identity Crisis
With change came dislocation. Creativity is frequently destructive. In the late twenty-first century, the prevailing flows of people, capital, labor, and communication combined to create a profound and lasting threat to the traditional nation-state. Traditional communities had been predicated on ties of blood and physical distance. In an anarchic world, primitive man was apt to know only his kin or his immediate neighbors. So long as he could not broaden his horizons, his concept of community must necessarily be highly circumscribed. By the same token, Westphalian statehood was predicated on monopolization of violence within a given physical jurisdiction. A prince could rule only what could be garrisoned by his armies or reached by his navies. The state did not inspired loyalty so much as it commanded loyalty, and for hundreds of years there was tension between states and the nations that they comprehended – often unhappily, if the number was greater than one. Even after that prince’s legitimacy was made contingent upon his fulfillment of obligations to the governed, the strength of one’s national identity was generally consistent with the extent to which one could engage physically in the rituals and lifestyles of the nation to which one assumed belonging. There could be no identity without community. Those who departed from one community and entered another might bring a flavor of their origins to new shores, but the past lacked immediacy, and so condescended to assume a new identity.

By 2025, over three-fifths of the population in certain Western countries are made up of recent immigrants. Borders were increasingly meaningless as the educated traveled to find work where it was available, entire regions were brought under single tariff schedules, and citizenship was marketed as a commodity. As a consequence, the populations in any given set of borders was apt to be increasingly heterogeneous. Fifty years prior, they might have gradually been subsumed into a new super-culture and safely acculturated according to the prevailing cultural consensus, albeit with some difficulty. In the digital era, however, it had become possible to participate remotely in most of the cultural activities that would once have been abandoned. More important still, one’s original identity was unlikely to lose its claim on the soul when news from home and ratification of belonging were instantly available. And so the clock turned back. A man might pay his tax locally, but his heart (and his loyalty) could lie over the sea. Stranger still, that loyalty might be to a people that lacked a state of their own, or an idea that lacked a patron. If, for most citizens, nations mattered less than they ever had, then for some, they mattered not at all.

[...]

Capital, too, was on the move, and increasingly that movement was from west to east, a trend accelerated by the increasing scope of the digital economy and the quickening pace of long-distance travel. [...]

Part IV: Neo Sapien

[...]

Part V: A Brave New World

The obvious candidate was Chiron, an Earth-like plant orbiting Alpha Centauri A, our nearest neighboring star. The first images of this red-blue world had been captured by the Hubble telescope in March 2003. Named after the wisest of the mythological centaurs, it beckoned invitingly. Spectrographic and other evidence indicated a habitable climate, nitrogen-rich atmosphere, and lush biome complete with large bodies of water, both liquid and ice.

[One or two paragraphs describing the remote assessment of Chiron.]

An unmanned probe launched by the European Space Agency reached Chiron under fusion power in September 2090 after a journey of more than eight decades. It sent back images of a young world: mountain ranges low and smooth, the climate warm and tempestuous, the animal life only lately emerged from the sea. Here was Eden, and on our very doorstep. A manned mission of exploration was soon announced under the auspices of the GTO’s Joint Space Command (JSC).

Part VI: Fitting Out

Five years in the making, the Chiron Interstellar Probe built on participants’ prior experience with so-called “sleeper ships,” automated arks designed to ferry human and other cargo across the vast distances between solar bodies. Arks had been used extensively during human colonization of the Outer Solar System during the mid-twenty-second century. Such craft maximized cargo capacity by employing cryogenic hibernation to reduce life support requirements while in-transit. The Chiron Probe would be the first implementation of this concept over interstellar distances. Using the most advanced propulsion systems then available, the Probe’s travel time was an estimated four decades.

The highly-trained, multi-national crew of five thousand soldiers, scientists, and specialists would establish a permanent colony on Chiron, laying the groundwork for subsequent waves of settlement. Mission designers gave serious thought to the dangers inherent in taming an unknown world, whatever its similarities to the mythical Eden. Personnel with backgrounds in the natural and life sciences, industrial and environmental engineering, and public administration predominated, but other desired professions included: medical doctors, machinists, underwater salvage experts, miners, surveyors, power plant operators, wildland firefighters, combat medics, foresters, and signals intelligence analysts. The recruiting board gave special consideration to candidates with prior experience in extra-terrestrial and sub-surface environments. Considerable attention was also afforded the need to provide social stability. Those with families must bring them: two thousand further billets were reserved for this purpose.

The Russian Federation acceded to the JSC in 2093 as part of a landmark series of accords on moderating conflict in outer space. St. Petersburg’s negotiators succeeded in leaving their indelible mark on the Interstellar Probe. Leveraging Russia’s experience exploring Venus and Mercury, they contributed plans for high-heat shielding and dispersion. The delegation also arranged for the Probe’s complement to include one thousand re-socialized convicts – men and women who had received gene, drug, and psychotherapy to suppress anti-social tendencies and render them minimally able for such menial work as might be required after Planetfall. (The convicts were ingeniously described to the JSC as political prisoners who would otherwise certainly be executed.) Finally, mission stores were expanded to include a cargo of nuclear warheads (officially for forcing liquid water to Chiron’s surface, as the Russians had done on Mars). A multi-national detachment of three hundred marines was to provide security under highly permissive rules of engagement.

The Probe was equipped with a range of prototype technologies to better ensure its success. These included first-generation repulsorcraft, extremely intelligent autonomous machinery (EIAM) (robot servitors), and “re-socialization” treatments to manage the convict population. After the Russian Federation signed on the Interstellar Probe in its final months, mission stores were further expanded to include a cargo of nuclear warheads (officially for forcing liquid water to Chiron’s surface).

Reflecting the largely democratic mores of its sponsors, the JTO drafted a charter sketching arrangements for the gradual devolution of authority from mission command to delegates elected by the colonists themselves.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 12, 2015, 01:27:23 AM
Where did you get off to, Yitzi? I could use another few rounds of that first-class analysis!

I'd love ideas for the background. Equally so, we could do more faction creation. I especially want to rehabilitate The Beneath.

I'm also thinking to do a faction based on a Kurtz-like character, as well as something rooted in fascism, unless you figure that the Estado Novo is already fascist enough.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on June 12, 2015, 02:18:09 AM
Where did you get off to, Yitzi? I could use another few rounds of that first-class analysis!

I can analyze individual SMAC/X factions, but what you've got is an entire setting, including non-SMAC/X-type factions, and that's beyond what I can handle easily.

Quote
I'm also thinking to do a faction based on a Kurtz-like character, as well as something rooted in fascism, unless you figure that the Estado Novo is already fascist enough.

Kurtz?

As for something rooted in fascism: Fascism is all about nationalism, and the tagline for SMAC/X factions is "not by nationality, but by ideology".  Fascism is probably one of the few ideologies that can not work as a basis for a SMAC/X faction.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 12, 2015, 03:10:35 AM
Are you interested in helping with a full setting? I'd be grateful for your help, and I'm certainly interested in having it.

Kurtz, as in the mad trader whose ivory station is the geographic destination for the protagonist in Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. He is also the inspiration for Marlon Brando's character in Apocalypse Now.

My idea was that this particular faction would be led by a shell-shocked veteran. Perhaps one of the Chiron Probe's original marine officers. A soldier who refused to abandon a strategically isolated holdfast during one of the interminable ceasefires between warring factions. An almost mythical figure in the minds of his men. The Le Marais plantation, also in Apocalypse Now, provides another model.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 12, 2015, 05:29:24 AM
I'm trying to think of what distinctive ideology a Kurtz-type figure might have that would distinguish them from either Santiago or Marsh. Possibly if they adopted the attitude that they needed to defend indigenous humans on Chiron, whom they held to be the key to understanding how to survive on a hostile world? Alternatively, they could be complex scavengers, believing that the best course for survival was to prey off existing factions by enforcing a sustainable balance of power...
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on June 12, 2015, 04:41:46 PM
I'm trying to think of what distinctive ideology a Kurtz-type figure might have that would distinguish them from either Santiago or Marsh.

Stubbornness/"never retreat".   ;santi; is about achieving victory/surviving in the face of hostile sapients, and Marsh is about surviving in the face of a hostile environment, but the Kurtz figure is about standing one's ground no matter what.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 12, 2015, 05:54:52 PM
And willing to go to inhuman and crazed lengths in the process.  Good point.

Trenacker has agreed with my phrasing that the Hunters are about harmony with nature - as an apex predator kind of park ranger.  I believe he intends a + to Planet rating.  We need to thrash out stats for some factions, BTW, and I'm not that good at that...
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 13, 2015, 04:44:36 AM
Okay, so let's explore this faction idea in greater depth.

You have, essentially, an unstable soldier, highly charismatic, who is basically catering to the dangerous whims of a frontier population that stubbornly refuses to abandon its "patrimony." Too much blood, sweat, and tears poured into the soil. "Our parents and children are buried here," & etc.

The soldier presumably has his own reasons for sticking it out. Probably some of his lieutenants are loyal more to the man than to his vision, but the central tenet is, "A man who does not fight his corner today will not be around to fight it tomorrow."

Marsh is a scavenger, to the point of carrying his home on his back. His men live in tents and out of overland vehicles. Pulling the chuck wagon behind them, as it were. It's "beef, and tea, and damper," as the old ditty goes.

Santiago is a difficult one. Most of her Holnist allies are extreme libertarians, mistrusting centralized government. Ideological, yes, but that ideology is sparse at best. It consists of stern opposition to government deemed "illegitimate," with no very good yardstick for legitimacy. Basically, an ill-considered rejection of the revenue man, the postman, and the policeman on grounds that they represent all that is intrusive and objectionable about central government. There is a pervasive belief that somebody, somewhere is sneering at them -- and that this intellectual condescension is going to lead to bureaucratic imposition in the form of the application of pressure by a nanny state. The great irony is that the most successful "Holnists" are the sociopaths who impose simple autocracy at the barrel of a gun without ever bothering to justify themselves intellectually.

But the Spartans are all about regimentation. Santiago is going to create a caste-based society governed by strict rules. A nanny state extraordinaire, complete with alienation of children from their birth parents and an entire underclass who never know the meaning of freedom.

My guess is that the Kurtz figure would fight to preserve a flawed but recognizable democracy. Either he fights eloquently to defend his decisions before puritanical elders, or else he has been given special authorities for the duration of the "emergency."

Here's a thought: does Kurtz's society have slaves? Does it have some people who are "more equal" than others? The de Marais were colonialists and aristocrats both. They didn't eat with their own men, remember.

Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: czisan on June 14, 2015, 04:42:30 AM
As someone who played as The Ascendancy in the first attempt at the game, they aren't that similar to The University beyond surface level. The Ascendancy is aggressive, with an ideology that doesn't really make room for competitors. The University wants to be left alone to tinker and experiment, The Ascendancy wants to impose a vision of the future on humanity, where homo sapiens superior reigns as the next chapter in human evolution.

Basically, The University wants a world where scientists are free to solve problems, The Ascendancy takes that further. They want to uplift humanity beyond those problems, replace laborers and assembly line workers with robots, and leave anew race of supermen free to explore the universe, ad pursue the sciences and arts.

Of course, however idealistic their endgame is, they also have no qualms about masses of 'undesirables' dying in wars, purges, and labor camps. They also were more aggressive social engineers, in their efforts to create an ideal population. Basically, The University is a pretty ideal neighbor, doing advanced research, probably trading high-tech goods in exchange for whatever you're offering, and generally minding their own business if you don't get in their way.

The Ascendancy... depends. They probably wouldn't tolerate the Human Hive on their borders, they definitely would not tolerate Miriam, since they know she's just going to go to war with them anyways, it's just a matter of when. Someone like Santiago? Well, they'll consider her faction brutish and unsophisticated, but a breeding ground for good gene-stock, and a potentially valuable ally against people like Lal or Yang. Are they going to go on the warpath for no good reason? Of course not, The Ascendancy is playing the long game, but if given a choice between annexing you or letting someone else do it, they are going to keep the power balance as skewed towards their side as possible.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 14, 2015, 04:56:17 AM
The University seems to only really be about the hardest of hard sciences -physics and engineering applications, with some biology.  It sounds like the Ascendancy might spread its net wider with at least a good dose of sociology and psychology, too...
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 14, 2015, 06:13:55 AM
I hadn't considered the Ascendancy's attitude toward robotic labor in some time. I'm interested in further exploring this concept of supermen freed from the "menial" to focus on the mental, as it were.

I would respectfully caution that there are many different potential paths for the University to take. A more aggressive style is possible.

As I see it, every faction can be "played straight" or subverted.

Morgan can be a sharp-nosed trader with all the best toys or an over-indulged slob who has mortgaged his protection to unreliable mercenaries.

Zakharov can be an ethically challenged sociopath struggling to adapt to the constraints of an overly-bureaucratic university administration or else a kind of scientific renegade after the style of Arik Soong. That is, he can easily be as ruthless as we imagine Pahlavi to be. As I've said before, most of the scientists in the game seem to think that ethics aren't just flexible, but in fact permeable. Cohen is all for experimentation on human subjects. Ditto Pahlavi. I have to imagine that Zakharov wouldn't think twice either.

I could see the University pursuing an isolationist path, and like BUncle, I always go the sense that they focused on "the hardest of the hard sciences," but I don't think that should be taken to mean that they devote all their efforts to the esoteric or the purely theoretical. The only "brake" on turning the University into a neuro-science powerhouse is backstory that clearly situates Zakharov's expertise in the realm of materials science.

Can anybody commit to helping me with the backstory generally?

Factions are good. I think we need to round out the Ascendancy and the Kurtz faction over the next few days. Is the Kurtz faction neo-colonialist? Is there an ethnic chauvanist dimension in play?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 14, 2015, 06:33:30 AM
Also!

Before I forget. In return for using his material for this game, I agreed to promote a friend's game on The Frontier in turn.

Immaculate just wrapped up the first run of Escape Velocity (http://www.the-frontier.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=194), which has an associated Wiki (http://escape-velocity.wikia.com/wiki/Escape_Velocity_Wiki). I've mined the wiki a good deal for background material that will go into AC2.

Immaculate is also now running a "lighter" sci-fi war game on the Civ Fanatics forums, here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13860225#post13860225).

Cheers!

Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 14, 2015, 04:50:22 PM
Maybe the Kurtz faction makes slaves of their prisoners of war? I could see Kurtz taking a dim view of prisoners, much like the Japanese before 1945. I fear that that's hardly unique, though.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 14, 2015, 05:19:38 PM
Heads-on-pikes Kurtz having POW slaves totally scans.

And that gets into a whole big thing about whether it's slavery or whatever way Kurtzites frame it, as a source of conflict and diplomacy text insults.

And a Kurtzite faction strikes me as one that would have a really vainglorious and mad-sounding name for themselves, even if it wasn't official, or at least not used by anyone else.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 14, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
They call themselves the Honored Dead, an ironic play on the fact that, when their faction mates pulled out, they chose to stay behind -- were, from their point of view, left to die.

The issue is I don't know how Kurtz would organize his society from an ideological perspective. "Vigilance at The Wall" sounds good, but how is he any different from Marsh? Just the slavery angle? How is he any different from Santiago? Just the personal freedoms angle? How is he any different than van de Graaf, who stands out only because he literally purchased a faction?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 14, 2015, 06:23:38 PM
Well Kurtz is a religious movement, for one thing.  Everybody's seen the movie, if not read their Conrad.  Make it something like God's Honored Dead among themselves, and you've got something - it sure ain't the God Miriam is after, it's Kurtz, or at least Kurtz is the prophet.  A mad, mad, barking mad warrior religion, barking mad being key.
Quote
The horror; the horror!

Probably elements of Mithraic thinking only with lots more blood sacrifice - of the human kind.  They just eat the bulls.  Maybe even some cultic ritual cannibalism, eating the enemies' hearts to take their strength.  Betcha they may have been doing it in the movie offscreen.

This is going very dark, which isn't my customary style.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 14, 2015, 06:31:24 PM
...I think cannibalism is probably a stronger hook than slavery, too...
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 14, 2015, 11:18:00 PM
Quote from: BUncle
Well Kurtz is a religious movement, for one thing.  Everybody's seen the movie, if not read their Conrad.  Make it something like God's Honored Dead among themselves, and you've got something - it sure ain't the God Miriam is after, it's Kurtz, or at least Kurtz is the prophet.  A mad, mad, barking mad warrior religion, barking mad being key.

While I agree that this concept fits the character as he was originally written by Conrad, I'm uncomfortable with that direction, at least with respect to the faction's original adherents (that is, the "stay-behinds"). I have thought of there being indigenous, primitive human life on Chiron, and perhaps for them, this Kurtz-type figure is indeed a deity.

I think that Kurtz is shell-shocked and stubborn to the point that he could be credible accused of irrationality, but I intended for his story to be a meditation on preservation of a doomed way of life. If we go the warrior religion route, the faction becomes more a Viking analog, and I think we get there with the Holnists.

Quote from: BUncle
Probably elements of Mithraic thinking only with lots more blood sacrifice - of the human kind.  They just eat the bulls.  Maybe even some cultic ritual cannibalism, eating the enemies' hearts to take their strength.  Betcha they may have been doing it in the movie offscreen.

This is going very dark, which isn't my customary style.

I think it would be interesting if Kurtz's troops engaged in cannibalism not for ritual's sake, but as a psychological warfare tactic.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 14, 2015, 11:58:30 PM
It's an initiation ritual, then, as well.  The kind of hazing a special forces unit puts a new fish through.

I can't see indigenous human anything without doing too much violence to the background.  Maybe a shipload of mostly not-modern people from somewhere like Papua New Guinea scooped up during a genocide by a fanatic activist who'd stolen a ship?

The warrior religion stuff can be quasi-religious group warrior ethos rather than cultic, if you don't want to play with the religion stuff, with still a cult of personality leader...
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 15, 2015, 12:19:44 AM
The initiation ritual sounds fine.

I don't think we need to explain the presence of primitive homo sapiens on Chiron in the backstory. It's intended to be one of the mysteries encountered by the survivors of both expeditions.

Again, I'm not entirely comfortable with religion. Even cultic ritual goes too far. I do, however, think that Kurtz may well become increasingly convinced of his own genius and infallibility, but then, that's true of all the faction leaders, narcissists that they are.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 15, 2015, 12:57:49 AM
quasi-religious group warrior ethos rather than cultic
The special forces unit, again - those guys can and do go way beyond the customary infantry band of brothers stuff.

Actually wasn't Kurtz Green Beret gone bad in the first place?  Surely, even if the movie didn't actually say, what but a ranger/special forces unit to have the autonomy to go off the reservation for so long before they thought it would take a intelligence spook assasin?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 15, 2015, 03:54:25 AM
I'm all for eating the beating hearts of enemy prisoners. I'm not for venerating Kurtz as a god in religious terms. I'm OK with "hero worship" as a general concept.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 15, 2015, 03:56:12 AM
Siigh.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 15, 2015, 11:29:03 PM
So, after following up privately, it seems we are in loud agreement.

As a point of information, I've generally found that players need very little help to find their way into factions that are (A) Communist, (B) fundamentalist, and (C) cybernetically inclined. I don't know precisely why that is, but it seems consistent enough.

I can see Kurtz engaging rather delightedly in psychological warfare. I'm sure that his enemies are happy to refer to him as a cannibal and that the bases and outposts of the Honored Dead are adorned with the gory remnants of the enemy dead (and perhaps not-quite-so-dead). I can also see Kurtz inducting new recruits by having them munch on still-bearing hearts, but as a demonstration of bloodlust rather than in honor of any gods.

Perhaps the irony of Kurtz is that while he believes in a God of sorts -- probably absent most of the trappings of formal religion -- his followers simply see Kurtz as the font of objective truth. I'll bet there are also a fair number of folks in his faction who hate him, but know they don't have any better alternative. They may sneer at his crassness but realize that his tactical mind is irreplaceable. He props up their bid to perpetuate an aristocracy of sorts.

If this were 1880s Africa, Kurtz would have members of one tribe working for him, while members of others were enslaved by his people. if this were Vietnam, Kurtz would be employing indigenous soldiers while implicitly endorsing a social hierarchy that excluded them. How does that dynamic work in the Alpha Centauri setting?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 16, 2015, 01:38:11 AM
Mindworms through (brutal) training, not psychic link?

Well-reasoned stuff.  I think you've got something.  Did I mention warriors who have forgotten how to stop fighting?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 16, 2015, 01:47:08 AM
I don't see them being especially nature-savvy. That's Marsh's territory, isn't it?

Yes. Warriors who have forgotten how to stop fighting is precisely what we're going for here.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 16, 2015, 01:51:43 AM
Yitzi, can you help me out with figuring out some bonuses and modifiers for the various factions that I've created?

Looks like we're going to make them SMAC-playable. :)
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 16, 2015, 01:52:56 AM
Please Yitzi.

I don't see them being especially nature-savvy. That's Marsh's territory, isn't it?

Yes. Warriors who have forgotten how to stop fighting is precisely what we're going for here.
Not savvy - just fighters capturing and using basic Pavlov.  Doing it the hard way is part of the point...
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 16, 2015, 03:25:45 AM
Electro-prodding, as it were?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 16, 2015, 03:40:22 AM
Oh yes - and woopin's with sticks and who knows what-all.

Perhaps simulated w/ earlyish brood pits, if that can be done, not +Planet capture...  Brood pits as a beginning tech if it can be made expensive enough to prevent 25th turn worm rushes.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 16, 2015, 04:22:50 AM
Marsh's folks will have a starting hovercraft or rover, like the Spartans.

Kurtz's would probably have a benefit to defense.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 16, 2015, 04:24:15 AM
Offence, if you're going that way.  Dangerous fighters and paranoid enough, but sloppy because cuRAZZY!
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 16, 2015, 11:33:25 PM
Miriam is the one with the bonus to attack, isn't she? We might try tinkering with that a bit, to be honest. Rework the original factions, too, when we do our faction design tonight.

I think that Marsh might have an advantage to attack, don't you? Knowing the lay of the land. The hunter's advantage, and all that.

It seems to me that a faction based on standing its ground would be especially good on the defensive.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 16, 2015, 11:42:40 PM
Well, a hunter's skills can be very useful in war, but tends to be a ranger/scout skillset, not a standard infantry one.  Probably fantastic snipers, though, maybe with a bonus to artillery to simulate that distance advantage.

What they really ought to be good at is, along with the +Planet, collecting food and therefore growing among their carefully-managed nature.  I'm not bothering to try to suggest only what I know is possible -not my focus/expertise, which is creative- but what I don't know isn't.  A growth bonus might have to do if you like this idea.

If you're married to military advantage, possibly cheap rovers to simulate knowing the lay of the land and consequent mobility.  Or zone-of-control immunity ability to simulate (well) stealth.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 17, 2015, 01:32:51 AM
So, +1 square of sight or movement over rough terrain? I wanted to give them a starting rover to reflect the tools they had on-hand at the time of the exodus from the main settlement.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Geo on June 20, 2015, 01:09:52 PM
So, +1 square of sight or movement over rough terrain? I wanted to give them a starting rover to reflect the tools they had on-hand at the time of the exodus from the main settlement.

Simple, let 'm start with the Doctrine: Mobility tech. Their infantry becomes a rover then, just like with the Spartans.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 21, 2015, 08:43:41 AM
Here are the Hunters of Chiron with their full faction write-up. Veteran faction designers among you, please help me with the syntax. Everyone else, what do you think of the "feel" of the faction? Does this dialogue give you a sense of the character?

The Hunters of Chiron (led by Game Warden J.T. Marsh)
The Hunters are an amalgamation of the various colonists caught "outside the wire" when the Quarantine was imposed. Consolidated under the leadership of Game Warden J.T. Marsh, they are a motley collection of scouts, pioneers, miners, and roughnecks. Their blueprint for success is simple but effective: trade survey data and sell their services managing Chiron's fungal blooms where possible, stealing ("salvaging") moveable goods when the opportunity arises. As one might expect, the Hunters take a certain pride in their rough-and-tumble existence, regarding settled populations with something close to disdain. Marsh has also successfully increased his followers' suspicion of technologies that might render their skill sets obsolete, gradually developing a coherent "Philosophy of the Frontier" that pits Man in an idealized struggle to retain physical as well as mental mastery over his domain. The Hunters generally start and remain small but do not suffer from the same environmental maluses that limit the activity of other factions during the early game. As befits their experience battling mindworms and other threats, the Hunters also receive significant bonuses on both the offense and defense.

#HUNT
Hunters of Chiron, The Hunter, Hunters, M, 1, Marsh, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1
 TECH, Doctrine: Mobility, ++PROBE, --GROWTH, +PLANET, +EFFIC, --POLICE, ++MORALE, -ECONOMY, -RESEARCH, COMBAT 125
 Politics, Democratic, MORALE
 Politics, Police State, nil
 Hunters, Hunters
 Patrick, Muldoon, Jurassic Park
 Warden, keen, thieving, vigilant, savage
 [Together we shall both] adopt the attitude of the knife [and]
 [My intent is] to find on Chiron the self that we so carelessly abandoned on Earth
 [He is bent on] our collective reversion to a bunch of Neanderthals, scarce able to make fire
 [You seem bent on] rejecting the very tools that got us this far, and thereby condemning us all to die horribly in this pitiless place because it somehow flatters your vanity
 [I shall not stand here while you] practice your panegyrics to primitivism
 [He spends his time] engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include: rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy
 [You spend your time] getting drunk around campfires while the human race slowly reverts to barbarism
 [I have been accused of] dragging my knuckles
 [Your] blatant piracy [does not impress me]
 [Think how this could benefit your] efforts to achieve liberation from dependence upon machines
 [I trust your] cattle rustling operations [are proceeding to your satisfaction]
 [It is customary to remit me a small] subscription [...]
 [...for the services my forces provide in] helping to manage Planet's less salubrious qualities
 [I shall instruct] the Main Force Patrol [to see that no such]
 [You are in contravention of] the tents of common sense

#BASES
High Hide
Jurassic Park
Delta Echo Niner
Ice Station Zero

#WATERBASES
The Barge

Architects tell us that form follows function, but the man in the bush knows that function must needs follow form. We are now, through a combination of indolence and indulgence, abandoning mastery of our form. Motion and excellence -- progress -- have somehow become inconveniences, better left to machines.
^
^               -Warden J.T. Marsh
^                     "The Hunters of Chiron"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Jeremy Tanner (J.T.) Marsh}
^BACKGROUND: {Kenya, CIP Game Warden}
^AGENDA: {Pursuit of physical and mental excellence through adversarial relationship with the natural environment}
^TECH: {Doctrine: Mobility}
^

#DATALINKS2
^+2 PROBE {decentralization and limited organizational capacity reduces effectiveness of enemy intelligence operations}
^-2 GROWTH {very high proportion of men to women limits population growth}
^+1 PLANET {wilderness skills facilitate effective interaction with alien biome}
^+1 EFFICIENCY {faction members specially trained and equipped to live off the land}
^-2 POLICE {independence-minded citizens reject strict social controls}
^+2 MORALE {most faction members already reconciled to itinerant lifestyle}
^-1 ECONOMY {skepticism toward labor-saving technologies retards material development}
^-1 RESEARCH {lack of respect for traditional professions retards scientific progress}
^+25% to all combats {practical experience of managing mindworm attacks, combined with wilderness skills, heightens effectiveness of faction militia}

#FACTIONTRUCE
"If it’s all the same to you, $NAME1, I’d just as soon not die for no very good reason. Don’t let’s go to the dogs tonight. Only buggers what profit are the worms.”

[Acceptance dialogue] “Sense in those words, I admit.”
[Rejection dialogue] "Hard pounding, is it? Let's see who pounds hardest."

#FACTIONTREATY
“‘Never run the war path alone,’ that’s what I always say. Been cutting the same trail a long time, your mates an’ mine. Figure it’s time we made it official.”

[Acceptance dialogue] “All right. Let's do that."
[Rejection dialogue] "Where I come from, the legacy of a poacher is a good, strong rope. Let's say I'm a traditionalist."

#BREAKTREATY [Don't know if this is even in the game.]
"Say, #NAME1? It's no slander to say there's many a clever trick done by an overlander."
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Geo on June 21, 2015, 11:22:50 AM
++morale and COMBAT 125 combined makes this a too strong faction offensively. An offensive player might use this faction this way to gain an edge by perpetual conquest of bases to get population. I'd change the COMBAT with a free Empath Song ability. If the 'hunter' succesfully stalks native life, victory is theirs. if vice-versa, see you in hell. :hunter:
To 'force' bases to be kept small (outpost sized), the hab complex limiter could be used.
I see 10 modifiers there. Have you checked if all 10 of them are enabled ingame? I thought there was a hard limit of 8 modifiers (excluding certain modifiers which I don't know out of my head) in the faction.txt file.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on June 21, 2015, 12:37:32 PM
++morale and COMBAT 125 combined makes this a too strong faction offensively. An offensive player might use this faction this way to gain an edge by perpetual conquest of bases to get population. I'd change the COMBAT with a free Empath Song ability. If the 'hunter' succesfully stalks native life, victory is theirs. if vice-versa, see you in hell. :hunter:
To 'force' bases to be kept small (outpost sized), the hab complex limiter could be used.
I see 10 modifiers there. Have you checked if all 10 of them are enabled ingame? I thought there was a hard limit of 8 modifiers (excluding certain modifiers which I don't know out of my head) in the faction.txt file.

There is such a limit, and none of those are the excluded modifiers.  Also, ++PROBE would have to be SOCIAL, ++PROBE and similarly for the others, and COMBAT is not a valid modifier (you'd have to do OFFENSE and DEFENSE separately, raising it to 11.)
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 21, 2015, 02:12:13 PM
The creative element is pretty excellent.  It's got a thematic hook, and is well-expressed.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Geo on June 21, 2015, 02:20:21 PM
The creative element is pretty excellent.  It's got a thematic hook, and is well-expressed.

Sure. But also needs to work ingame. ;)
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 21, 2015, 02:42:14 PM
Of course.  That's a moby dick issue.  I was just talking about the creative end which is my focus.  The original seven did a pretty good job of hogging the most evocative universal themes and ruining it for every faction that followed, but this paints a picture, sets up a story, and is not bad at all.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Yitzi on June 21, 2015, 02:57:35 PM
Of course.  That's a moby dick issue.  I was just talking about the creative end which is my focus.  The original seven did a pretty good job of hogging the most evocative universal themes and ruining it for every faction that followed

Nah, I think  ;domai; has room.

Actually, he has room for two: One that's focused on equality (ideology: Planned), and one that's focused on the merits of the laboring classes and material productivity (ideology: Wealth).
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 21, 2015, 03:03:16 PM
Agreed about ;domai;; but he's pretty much hands-down the most popular of the second seven, isn't he?   ;roze; a distant second, I think.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 21, 2015, 05:49:58 PM
Quote from: Geo
++morale and COMBAT 125 combined makes this a too strong faction offensively. An offensive player might use this faction this way to gain an edge by perpetual conquest of bases to get population. I'd change the COMBAT with a free Empath Song ability.

Okay, so we swap out the broken COMBAT 125 bonus for a free Empath Song ability. Do you by chance know how that's coded?  ;)

Quote from: Yitzi
There is such a limit, and none of those are the excluded modifiers.  Also, ++PROBE would have to be SOCIAL, ++PROBE and similarly for the others, and COMBAT is not a valid modifier (you'd have to do OFFENSE and DEFENSE separately, raising it to 11.)

Can you help me with making the fixes?

Quote from: BUncle
The creative element is pretty excellent.  It's got a thematic hook, and is well-expressed.

I appreciate the compliment!
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Geo on June 21, 2015, 06:12:20 PM
Okay, so we swap out the broken COMBAT 125 bonus for a free Empath Song ability. Do you by chance know how that's coded?  ;)

You never checked the smacwiki? :o
Read the attached guides.
As for giving a faction a free ability, the Pirates can be used as an example with their Marine Detachment ability.
But it should be FREEABIL, 11 - the 12th ability in the #ABILITIES section of alphax.txt.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 21, 2015, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Geo
You never checked the smacwiki? :o
Read the attached guides.
As for giving a faction a free ability, the Pirates can be used as an example with their Marine Detachment ability.
But it should be FREEABIL, 11 - the 12th ability in the #ABILITIES section of alphax.txt.

I did read them, but I'm afraid I wasn't always able to make sense of the directions.

So, we're swapping out COMBAT 125 for FREEABIL, 11. ++PROBE becomes SOCIAL, ++PROBE, correct? What else do we need to do?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Geo on June 21, 2015, 08:15:54 PM
Quote from: Geo
You never checked the smacwiki? :o
Read the attached guides.
As for giving a faction a free ability, the Pirates can be used as an example with their Marine Detachment ability.
But it should be FREEABIL, 11 - the 12th ability in the #ABILITIES section of alphax.txt.

I did read them, but I'm afraid I wasn't always able to make sense of the directions.

So, we're swapping out COMBAT 125 for FREEABIL, 11. ++PROBE becomes SOCIAL, ++PROBE, correct? What else do we need to do?

YOU need to do it. :P
Seriously, if you don't understand the file, at least compare it with the factions Firaxis gave us.
Also, 2 of the parameters won't work because you go above 8 of them. You need to redesign your faction and remove (at least) 2 of the parameters.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Geo on June 21, 2015, 08:45:01 PM
Got nothing better to do anyway. Or at least I'm not in the mood to do anything better right now.

What you wanted and wrote:

Code: [Select]
TECH, Doctrine: Mobility, ++PROBE, --GROWTH, +PLANET, +EFFIC, --POLICE, ++MORALE, -ECONOMY, -RESEARCH, COMBAT 125
Provided the game would accept more then 8 major bonus slots it would have to look like this:

Code: [Select]
TECH, Doctrine: Mobility, SOCIAL, ++PROBE, SOCIAL, --GROWTH, SOCIAL, +PLANET, SOCIAL, +EFFIC,
SOCIAL, --POLICE, SOCIAL, ++ MORALE, SOCIAL, -ECONOMY, SOCIAL, -RESEARCH, OFFENSE, 125, DEFENSE, 125

But that won't work because that are 11 major bonusses.

So what you need to do is either remove 3 of them, redesign it so that 3 major bonusses are switched to minor bonusses, or a combination of the previous 2.

For instance, if you decide to let the Hunters only have extra combat power for psi, you can remove the OFFENSE and DEFENSE parameters and replace it with the minor bonus PSI, like this:

Code: [Select]
TECH, Doctrine: Mobility, SOCIAL, ++PROBE, SOCIAL, --GROWTH, SOCIAL, +PLANET, SOCIAL,
+EFFIC, SOCIAL, --POLICE, SOCIAL, ++ MORALE, SOCIAL, -ECONOMY, SOCIAL, -RESEARCH, PSI, 25

Or at least when following what is written in the guide. It could as well be 125.

That brings you down to 9 major and 1 minor bonus.
One to go. You have a number of options here.
There's the minor bonusses TECHCOST, MORALE, RESEARCH, MINDCONTROL, that can replace or emulate what you want from your -RESEARCH, --PROBE, ++MORALE ideas. I suggest you read up on them again, and see how it agrees with what you want for this faction.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 21, 2015, 09:22:56 PM
Since you always ask, edited to not make the page display extra-wide... ;)

Those code lines are one line in the .txt, Tren. Replace the carriage return at the end of the first line of the two two-line examples with a space.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Geo on June 21, 2015, 09:39:41 PM
Since you always ask, edited to not make the page display extra-wide... ;)

I rarely ask. :danc:
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 21, 2015, 10:17:51 PM
Disagree.  I rarely need to edit you.

You usually ask. :P
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 22, 2015, 01:11:28 AM
How's this?

The Hunters of Chiron (led by Game Warden J.T. Marsh)
The Hunters are an amalgamation of the various colonists caught "outside the wire" when the Quarantine was imposed. Consolidated under the leadership of Game Warden J.T. Marsh, they are a motley collection of scouts, pioneers, miners, and roughnecks. Their blueprint for success is simple but effective: trade survey data and sell their services managing Chiron's fungal blooms where possible, stealing ("salvaging") moveable goods when the opportunity arises. As one might expect, the Hunters take a certain pride in their rough-and-tumble existence, regarding settled populations with something close to disdain. Marsh has also successfully increased his followers' suspicion of technologies that might render their skill sets obsolete, gradually developing a coherent "Philosophy of the Frontier" that pits Man in an idealized struggle to retain physical as well as mental mastery over his domain. The Hunters generally start and remain small but do not suffer from the same environmental maluses that limit the activity of other factions during the early game. As befits their experience battling mindworms and other threats, the Hunters also receive significant bonuses on both the offense and defense.

#HUNT
Hunters of Chiron, The Hunter, Hunters, M, 1, Marsh, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1,
 TECH, Doctrine: Mobility, SOCIAL, --GROWTH, SOCIAL, +PLANET, SOCIAL, +EFFIC, SOCIAL, --POLICE, SOCIAL, -ECONOMY, MORALE, 1, TECHCOST, 125, PSI, 25
 Politics, Democratic, MORALE
 Politics, Police State, nil
 Hunters, Hunters
 Patrick, Muldoon, Jurassic Park
 Warden, keen, thieving, vigilant, savage
 [Together we shall both] adopt the attitude of the knife [and]
 [My intent is] to get us out of this bloody great mess you've put us in, with your processed foods and your drone armies and your poxy wonder-drugs
 [He is bent on] our collective reversion to a bunch of Neanderthals, scarce able to make fire
 [You seem bent on] rejecting the very tools that got us this far, and thereby condemning us all to die horribly in this pitiless place because it somehow flatters your vanity
 [I shall not stand here while you] piss down my back and tell me it rains
 [He spends his time] engaging in all manner of uncivilized behaviors, to include: rustling, poaching, smuggling, and piracy
 [You spend your time] getting drunk around campfires while the human race slowly reverts to barbarism
 [I have been accused of] dragging my knuckles
 [Your] blatant piracy [does not impress me]
 [Think how this could benefit your] efforts to achieve liberation from dependence upon machines
 [I trust your] cattle rustling operations [are proceeding to your satisfaction]
 [It is customary to remit me a small] subscription [...]
 [...for the services my forces provide in] helping to keep this piece a' dirt from reclaiming what we've built
 [I shall instruct] the Main Force Patrol [to see that no such]
 [You are in contravention of] good, common sense

#BASES
High Hide
Jurassic Park
Delta Echo Niner
Ice Station Zero

#WATERBASES
The Barge

Architects tell us that form follows function, but the man in the bush knows that function must needs follow form. We are now, through a combination of indolence and indulgence, abandoning mastery of our form. Motion and excellence -- progress -- have somehow become inconveniences, better left to machines.
^
^               -Warden J.T. Marsh
^                     "The Hunters of Chiron"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Jeremy Tanner (J.T.) Marsh}
^BACKGROUND: {Kenya, CIP Game Warden}
^AGENDA: {Pursuit of physical and mental excellence through adversarial relationship with the natural environment}
^TECH: {Doctrine: Mobility}
^

#DATALINKS2
^-2 GROWTH {very high proportion of men to women limits population growth}
^+1 PLANET {wilderness skills facilitate effective interaction with alien biome}
^+1 EFFICIENCY {faction members specially trained and equipped to live off the land}
^-2 POLICE {independence-minded citizens reject strict social controls}
^-1 ECONOMY {skepticism toward labor-saving technologies retards material development}
^+1 MORALE {democratic traditions result in increased personal efficacy}
^+125% RESEARCH COST {lack of interest and investment in traditional professions retards scientific progress}
^+25% to all PSI combat {practical experience of managing mindworm attacks has hardened faction militia}

#FACTIONTRUCE
"If it’s all the same to you, $NAME1, I’d just as soon not die for no very good reason. Don’t let’s go to the dogs tonight. Only buggers what profit are the worms.”

[Acceptance dialogue] “Sense in those words, I admit.”
[Rejection dialogue] "Hard pounding, is it? Let's see who pounds hardest."

#FACTIONTREATY
“‘Never run the war path alone,’ that’s what I always say. Been cutting the same trail a long time, your mates an’ mine. Figure it’s time we made it official.”

[Acceptance dialogue] “All right. Let's do that."
[Rejection dialogue] "Where I come from, the legacy of a poacher is a good, strong rope. Let's say I'm a traditionalist."

#BREAKTREATY [Don't know if this is even in the game.]
"Say, #NAME1? It's no slander to say there's many a clever trick done by an overlander."
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 22, 2015, 05:08:59 AM
One for the road (literally). I'll be out of town until Wednesday night.


The Human Ascendancy (led by Research Director Tamineh Pahlavi)
The Ascendancy stands on the proposition that mankind must assume control of its own evolutionary destiny. As Chief Geneticist of the Chiron Interstellar Probe, Dr. Tamineh Pahlavi was charged with conducting initiating long-term studies to determine whether and how exposure to an alien environment was affecting the colonists' DNA. Instead, Pahlavi diverted resources toward a selective breeding program with the intent of producing a human better-suited to the rigors of life on Planet: stronger, faster, and unhindered by the nitrogen-rich atmosphere. In doing so, Pahlavi and her team chose to ignore the comprehensive ethical safeguards governing their profession -- safeguards that they regarded as the outmoded relics of retrogressive folkways. The first of "Augment" was decanted from an iron womb less than two years after Planetfall.

Following the Exodus, Pahlavi gathered to her a majority of the expedition's experts in the life sciences. In company with their first crop of "children," the researchers established for themselves a geniocracy under which they could continue their grand project.

#ASCEND
Human Ascendancy, The Supremacist, Ascendancy, F, 0, Pahlavi, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0
 TECH, Biogenetics, SOCIAL, --GROWTH, SOCIAL, +EFFIC, SOCIAL, ++POLICE, RESEARCH, 1, FACILITY, 2, TALENT, 2
 Values, Knowledge, RESEARCH
 Politics, Fundamentalist, nil
 Ascendancy, Ascend.
 Arik, Soong, Cold Station 12
 Director, courageous, precocious, trailblazing, supremacist witch
 [Together we shall both] secure the evolutionary future of our race [and]
 [My intent is] to take the radical steps from which we so foolishly withheld on Earth
 [She is bent on] reducing us to servants for the benefit of her mishappen science projects
 [You seem bent on] creating a race of super men who will be more likely to stove our skulls than lead us to greatness
 [I shall not stand here while you] lead midgets to the slaughter when we could be standing on the shoulders of giants
 [He spends his time] subjecting his hapless followers to the most depraved experiments
 [You spend your time] attempting to rehabilitate the discredited art of phrenology
 [I have been accused of] reckless disregard for ethical boundaries
 [Your] little science experiment [does not impress me]
 [Think how this could benefit your] project to bound the next hurdle in human evolution
 [I trust your] paramecia races [are proceeding to your satisfaction]
 [It is customary to remit me a small] bit of seed money [...]
 [...for the services my forces provide in] keeping the lesser examples of our doomed species at bay
 [I shall instruct] my praetorians [to see that no such]
 [You are in contravention of] Ascendancy Code

#BASES
The Pinnacle
The Vault

#WATERBASES
The Primordial Waters


^"The Prophet said it best to Ishmael and his mates: 'A soul's a sort of fifth wheel to a wagon.'"
^               -Dr. Tamineh Pahlavi
^                     "Homo Sapien Superior"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Tahmineh Pahlavi}
^BACKGROUND: {Iran, CIP Chief Geneticist}
^AGENDA: {Produce homo sapien superior}
^TECH: {Biogenetics}
^

#DATALINKS2
^-2 GROWTH {artificial reproduction is a slow and difficult science}
^+1 EFFICIENCY {slave laborers require few provisions}
^+2 POLICE {superhumans make for highly effective oppressors}
^Improved Research {resources dedicated to breeding the master race}
^Free Children's Creche at each base {children raised in common}
^Extra Talent for every 2 citizens {genius is bred on an industrial scale}

#FACTIONTRUCE
“This war is to the detriment of humanity, $NAME1. Let us end it now before we wreak on Chiron what was wrought on Earth.”

[Acceptance dialogue] “It is agreed, then. Peace, for all our sakes.”
[Rejection dialogue] “My alphas are closing in. Negotiation is the posture of the weak.”

#FACTIONTREATY
“I recommend cooperation. I trust that your thinking on this subject will be... evolved.”

[Acceptance dialogue] “Excellent.”
[Rejection dialogue] “I see no need to sully the gene pool with inferior stock at this time.”

#BREAKTREATY [Don't know if this is even in the game.]
“Homo sapien sapien? Greet your new master, homo sapien superior.”
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 22, 2015, 05:10:18 AM
Rip it apart on stats, because we love, boyz.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 26, 2015, 09:00:35 AM
I'm back in town and able to post another faction this weekend. Perhaps the Honored Dead? Stretch goal is to do the New Two Thousand as well.

I'm going to assume that both the Hunters and the Ascendancy are solid at this time.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 27, 2015, 05:30:16 PM
So, help me. Let's talk about the Honored Dead as a pseudo-colonial society and about the New Two Thousand. What does a faction like the latter bring to the table if we assume that its leader financed an expedition-within-an-expedition? Extra credits seems weak. Perhaps a stronger military unit? More Talents?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 27, 2015, 09:55:45 PM
Tell us whatever you know, within reason, about that leader that isn't in the material you've already posted, or may not be obvious to us lazy people.  What makes him tick?  What's the central theme?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 28, 2015, 08:20:57 PM
The Dreamers of Chiron
Formed in the very final hours of the Exodus, the Dreamers began as an alliance of convenience between colonial charter-holder Roshann Cobb and Chief Neuroscientist Aleigha Cohen. It was Cobb who provided the experimental military technology that allowed Cohen to confirm her suspicions regarding Chiron's transformative effects on the human brain, and Cohen who facilitated access to test subjects in the form of re-socialized criminals placed under her care by trusting superiors.

As a factor for Struan's, one of the Probe's prime contractors, Cobb's instructions were to pave the way for the trading house to exploit Chiron's natural riches. He brought with him more than four hundred of the company's employees and vast storehouses of equipment as well as a serious drug addiction. Consigned to Cohen for treatment, Cobb soon became deeply interested in her work to identify the source of the nightmares plaguing the settlement. Cohen, for her part, convinced Cobb to supply her with resources that faction leadership would not provide. Soon, Cohen was sharing the results of her off-record experiments on the expedition's convict population and inviting Cobb to perfect his extraction techniques at their expense. Together, the pair recorded the first indications that certain members of the crew might have developed genetic mutations conferring extrasensory perception. It was only natural that this close cooperation would extend through the colony's demise.

#DREAM
Dreamers of Chiron, The Dreamer, Dreamers, M, 1, Cobb, M, -1, 0, 1, 1, 0,
 TECH, Neuropsych, Social, +++PROBE, SOCIAL, --GROWTH, ++POLICE, FUNGENERGY, 1, DRONE, 3, COMMERCE, 2, PSI, 25
 Values, Knowledge, PROBE
 Values, Power, nil
 Dreamers, Dream
 Hauser, Quaid, Rekall
 Tai-Pan, imponderable, vacant, pathbreaking, hopeless addict
 [Together we shall both] plot the myraid tributaries of the fully awakened mind [and...]
 [My intent is] to plumb fully the mysteries we are only now beginning to perceive
 [He is bent on] shattering the minds of all those unlucky enough to fall into his clutches
 [You seem bent on] reducing us all to lobotomized meat bags
 [I shall not stand here while you] refuse to recognize more than an inkling of your full potential
 [He spends his time] devising all manner of reprehensible tests, and us the unsuspecting subjects
 [You spend your time] breaking and entering into places where no man should tread
 [I have been accused of] stalking other mens' dreams
 [Your] drug-addled ranting [does not impress me]
 [Think how this could benefit your] little pharmacy
 [I trust your] adventures in hydroponic gardening [are proceeding to your satisfaction]
 [It is customary to remit me a small] toll [...]
 [I shall instruct] the Asset Control Division [to see that no such ...]
 [You are in contravention of] the Rules of Extraction
 
#BASES
The Fountainhead

#WATERBASES
Tigerlilies

#BLURB
"Name the most resilient parasite. A bacterium? A virus? An intestinal worm?
No. The most resilient parasite is an idea. Explosive. Highly contagious.
Once formed in the brain, an idea is impossible to erradicate. My scientists tell me
that even what is allegedly forgetten is still in there... somewhere. I haven't got a map.
That, I admit freely. But I do have a lovely box of dynamite."
^
^   -Roshann Cobb,
^      “The Art of Extraction”

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Tai-pan Roshann Cobb}
^BACKGROUND: {Hong Kong, Proprieter, Struan's Asian Trading Company}
^AGENDA: {Research, unlock the secrets of the human psyche}
^

#DATALINKS2
^+3 PROBE: {access to classified military technology}
^-2 GROWTH: {addicts care little for raising families}
^+2 POLICE: {Extractors make highly effective thought police}
^Bonus to energy production from fungal squares {native life has proven sensitive to psychological stimulus}
^Extra DRONE for every 3 citizens {nerve-stapling is a common method of social control}
^Bonus to COMMERCE {faction brokers access to CIP's pharmaceutical supplies}
^Bonus to PSI combat {Extraction can be applied as a weapon of war}

#FACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"By day, you make war, but by night, you dream of peace, $NAME1."

"Fine. Just see that you stay out of my head."
"What? And leave you to traipse through my thoughts unhindered? I think not, $NAME3."

#FACTIONTREATY
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know that there are known unknowns;
that is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
And finally, there are the unknown knowns; things we used to know but no longer remember. I can help with that, if you agree to sign a
Treaty of Friendship.”

"Total recall? Works for me."
"You have the look of an addict, and are no more convincing."

#ALIENFACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"War: pointless. End: imperative."

"$NAME3: harmless. Truce: agreed."
"$NAME3: liar. Truce: rejected."

#ALIENFACTIONTREATY
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Dreamers: peaceful. Treaty of Friendship: desirable."

"Allies: useful. Treaty: agreed."
"$NAME3: unpredictable. Treaty: not advisable."
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 28, 2015, 08:24:20 PM
Due to scripting constraints, I had to identify Cobb as the faction leader. (In choosing between the two, I went with the one who had the more interesting profile picture.)

Cobb is one of at least two charter-holders, private individuals permitted to outfit expeditions-within-an-expendition as part of the Chiron Interstellar Probe. Each one agreed to place their resources at the disposal of the greater expedition for two years' duration in return for transportation to Chiron. The other charterholder identified thus far is Oscar van de Graaf.

Van de Graaf's New Two Thousand come complete with their own veteran military unit. It's possible that Cobb would have one, too -- mercenaries, paid for by Struan's. The problem is that I didn't want to give everyone special units.

So! Criticism, please!
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 28, 2015, 09:24:55 PM
Morgan with a more military focus?  That's not completely unlike his background with the Unity expedition.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on June 29, 2015, 01:38:20 AM
Van de Graaf is sort of like Morgan with a more military focus, yes.

Cobb is an Extractor and is focused on neuroscientific applications despite his corporate association.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 16, 2015, 10:09:23 PM
Here's the parallel thread at CFC: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=531593 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=531593) BTW.

The ones at 'poly http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/211519-Alpha-Centauri-2-Seeking-Development-Team-and-Players (http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/211519-Alpha-Centauri-2-Seeking-Development-Team-and-Players)
-and WPC http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?8893-Alpha-Centauri-2-Seeking-Development-Team-and-Players (http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?8893-Alpha-Centauri-2-Seeking-Development-Team-and-Players)
-could use a little TLC.

This project is generating custom factions that will be good for the whole community, so let's support it...
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on July 17, 2015, 01:42:36 AM
To clarify, I am looking for members of the development team at this time.

I am especially interested in graphic designers who can help with maps, icons, and graphics for a planned wiki. I am also open to expressions of interest and faction ideas from players but cannot accept firm claims at this time.

Cheers!


*expressing interest*
I'm seriously intrigued. Since I really love roleplaying (mostly tabletop but also other types) and strategic board games a lot and I always wanted a game that works as both. And this game you describe sounds pretty much like what I was looking for a long time.

Is there any estimate on when the game will start / players can sign up for playing?

Also: I might be able to help a bit out on graphics and Icons. I could also try working on an actual globe-map instead of a flat one with Fractal Terrains (https://secure.profantasy.com/products/ft.asp) but I haven't done much with this Program yet, so no promises there.

Here a sample I just created to show what I'm talking about:
(http://www.mypnp.de/SMAC/Testplanet.gif)
Second one with more frames, but I made it smaller to save time:
(http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-17-2015/8CLxvK.gif)
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on July 17, 2015, 03:53:26 AM
Welcome, Eadee! We're more than happy to have you join the discussion. Always looking for folks to add to the development crew -- especially if they've got the ability to contribute special items like maps and icons!

The game isn't schedule for a start date yet. We're still designing factions, coming up with the back story (an initial sample is posted earlier in this discussion thread, with a request for critique/input), and a tech tree. I think the background material is most important, honestly.

In terms of faction claims, I'm willing to recognize them now. Any particular faction you have in mind to play?

Again, welcome!
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on July 17, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Upon invitation,  here  is  a description  via  survey  of  a faction of my design:  The Crystal Ladder.

The leader head , I came up with, but...  I'm  up for crowdsourcing that figure,  in all honesty.  I have a concept of  the  events that lead to the creation of the faction as a movement  aboard  whatever  ship, but, a specific leader,  I have an idea  but I'm not attached to it.

Please  consider  these elements  and  critique  on
1)  Coherence
2)  Elegance
3)  Sense
4)  What's missing

----
The Crystal Ladder

(click to show/hide)

1. Why did human civilization fail on Earth?

A lack of knowing what is worth honoring, respecting, or valuing,  which itself arises  from  a lack of an edified populace, which itself arises from  an apathy  to the ignorance of others - the sense of superiority or factionalism that invaded people  in every socioeconomic rung  and  with every temperament.  Only a small number of academics were spared, and the world's undiscovered wise 'untouchables'.  A great many  academics and  educated elite, fell to layers upon layers of this  factionalist disease, at each turn  thinking themselves superior or chosen or for some other reasoning rationalizing turning their backs  on  fellow Humans.  They thought they were the ones who understood, they were the ones who had seen the choice and made the right one, they were the ones who worked for the good life.

It was  ignorance and rationalization all around.  People can choose not to work for enlightenment, but they cannot make themselves unworthy of it.  They may pile themselves with sloth or vice and misdeeds or evil, but they cannot kill their divinity.  When the weight of these divine beings toppled over, the calamity stole away and drowned  nearly the entire  edifice of civilization, and the world was killed.  They were willfully blind of the totality.

They killed the world because of factionalism.  It was caused by fear, which was caused by ignorance, which flourished because people abandoned each other, which is factionalism.  But the cause of that  is  Human nature, which is meant to be nurtured, to become something more.  So the final and first reason is education.  When you've been shown enough, it's too painful to be cruel, it's too boring to be regressive, and it's too alarming to do and be anything but your best, all the time.


2. What are the fundamental constants of human nature or the universe at large? What are the practical implications of your answer?

Between Man and the World are the constructions of His ancestors. Mankind is not fundamentally sick, but Man + ill-understood constructions is an illness, a pathological dyad, against which the World is unforgiving. So Humanity is capable of continual, virtuous adaptation through the construction of culture, but that construction must be accompanied by watchfulness, and learning, and not forgetting, or Humanity will build itself out of mere Terrible Nature into literally Horrifying Disaster.

3. What will be necessary to ensure humanity’s survival on Chiron?

The answer to this  is just a definition of Humanity.  Who?  Any one who is dead did not survive.  Anyone who loses his Humanity did not survive.  The creatures that survive Chiron  will  not  die  because they know what they are, which means they know what they aren't,  and can  appropriately  discard and slough off the unneeded, the distractions, and then they can  make  a bargain  with the  difficult conditions of  Nature, and foreign polities,  to get what they actually want.

4. Should an attempt be made to re-establish contact with Earth?

Earth is no different from any other polity of Humans.  This is strictly a foreign policy decision.

5. What is the major end-game, or “project,” of this faction?

The endgame cannot be known.  Divisiveness will occur, and the faction must try over and over to synthesize knowledge and reform social order  before collapse with every  crisis.  The idea  is to  embody strength through collapse, to  build the kind of  people  who  can  deal with  the inflation, collapse, and rebuilding of economies and even governments, over and over, as they  certainly will, and they gotta know  that it matters, that it can be done, and that people will know.

edit insert:  The  endgame is a social reality  where everyone  is  making the same sketch of virtue.  That's what you're all trying to be.  There is an ideal and it's for everyone and  everyone participates in it.  There's differences at many levels but any  dyad of argument,  you both, you all, belong on the same ladder. 
So any person  can  see  where they are and how things are for them and accept it  because  everyone acknowledges the  goal,  the rules,  and  can look at your  factual situation  with a straight face and you can talk about it.  You know you both come from the same thing, you know  you  want  the highest thing.  You can construct yourself  into  your fellow's comprehension  because  you started somewhere they know.  You will take the time to do it  because you  know you are  that much the same as aimed at the ideal, and the ideal is the peculiar  thing that agreeing to aim at it  is the superlative in  binding people.

You're playing the same game.  It's meaningful, you're not being  cheated.  Everyone can respect who is winning  and why things aren't great for them.  There's an  explanation, because someone everyone is explaining it, as in,  actually stating one, and putting  effort into it, because.... it matters that you have one.  This is a connection, a togetherness.  It only needs to be one tether, not  entire sameness.  You belong together in some way, that's religio.

6. What is the faction’s proper name?
The Crystal Ladder
7. What is the proper adjective for your faction?
Ladder
8. What is the popular slang for your faction?
?

9. What is your faction’s symbol?
An equilateral triangle and a disc of diameter equal to edge length, resting on the same base.
(pff I dunno, something ladder-like and infinite)

10. What are your faction’s colors? (Choose two.)
Sunset red and sea-blue.

11. What are your faction’s words?
Wake, Watch, Wonder?  (lol)  I don't know.

12. What is your faction leader’s name?
The faction leader would almost certainly  not   be Western, and I don't  know actually  believable names from elsewhere places.

13. What is the leader’s gender?
As far as artistic concerns go, I suppose  casting the leader as  masculine would be symbolically contiguous.  I'd be hardpressed myself to put in the sufficient  creative force  to  make  a feminine character  who was not distractingly trope-born.

14. What concept or trope does the leader embody?

Mentor to troubled youth, Pillar of community, Atlas.  Jama Barre.  Derek Morgan. 

15. What was the leader’s position, if any, on the command staff? How did they end up aboard Unity?

... Child Psychologist?  I'm fuzzy on this , it seems a matter of storytelling, and I don't know the story pieces.

16. From where on Earth are this faction’s followers most likely to originate?

China, Japan, West India, Coastal United States

17. What were the pre-planetfall political and religious convictions of a typical member of your faction?

Valued centralization, even religion  as social order,  but  far too disgusted  with  every existing government.  Of religious folk,  only those  estranged from monotheisms.  Atheist religions are orthogonal to the faction's tenets, and monotheism   is still not rational enough for  even  the anti-rationalist  building blocks.

18. From what walks of life are the faction’s followers most likely to emerge?

Scholars of Humanities (especially theological), ministers, monks.  High-status socialites of highly traditional societies.  Agreeable katagi.  People from stratified societies.  The self-made wealthy.  Career criminals (the kind who live one fake life and one underworld life; less so the  "tapestry of deception" sort) - the dark truth is, they will have a ball with this faction's politics, both at first,  and for the foreseeable future.

19. What does a typical follower look like?

West Indian or Chinese

20. What does your faction prioritize?

Education.

21. What is your faction’s agenda?

a. Collate  prehistory  of  civilization mk.2
b. Develop lesson plan
c. Determine government controls to prevent  stultification or doctrinification of said  lessons
d. Teach everyone everything lol Teach history, teach people how to  argue constructively, teach people a -complete- awareness of the gap between  intuition  and reality - most importantly , just how darn complicated  the  present social order is, and what transformation it represents.
e. Build society and technology to guarantee the teaching continues
f.  A polity of  citizens  who  won't want to  screw up again  emerges, who know exactly where they are in history, and have been walked through all the dumb ideas everybody else had already, and all the ideas that had the world's attention at some point, but especially  the bare descriptions of how things really worked (edit: socioeconomically) and  what happened at the time as a result (edit: sociopolitically)

Phase II:

a.  Polity  works not to  screw  world up.  Or does it anyway, but feels like a conformist doing so, so they probably won't.
b.  Smart ideas happen.  Reformulate problem. 
c.  Technological aides.  Economize.  "The lesson plan" evolves.  Unsustainable issue of  history getting larger and  adulthoods staying the same length, edit:  unless  youthfulness science.  Yay medicine.

22. What is the personality of your leader?

Expressive, honest, fierce, polite, patient

23. What is your faction’s default behavior?

Non-expansive, guarded, questioning/nosy, peaceful, research & growth emphasis, industry de-emphasis.

24. To what does your faction have strong aversions?

Laissez-faire  sociopolitics.  Rapid population change. 


25. What is your faction’s moral paradigm?

Know what you're doing.  Socialize what you do, often.  Don't be a special snowflake - if you're different in a good way, watch the world become the same as you in short order.

edit:  Debates aren't for an audience, they -are- personal.  Testify to your dissenters.  The watching world keeps  both your heads on straight, but the  speech is not about them.  The  mores of ad hom  will change.  Talking  about  what's wrong with the man  is valid, because he is more than his ideas.  But smearing is  improper,  it's just not  ...   the  transparent plea  for  credibility for its own sake  will , the populace will know to see right through it  and just boo such a display  right  down  from  the stage of the day.

26. What is your faction’s attitude toward ecology?

The 'world' is an "other" to Humankind,  but  the relationship of Humankind to the environment is a relationship of Humankind, which is  phenomenological if not psychological  and therefore  studied relentlessly. 
Being separate from Human allegiance,  the world is a place of potential and resource, and that potential is nothing until it is made into  something.  It is either built into something, or it  transforms of its own accord whether Mankind likes it or not.  Thing is, once science has had a good look at it, it isn't unwrought potential anymore, it's a part of experience, and ignoring experiences like  "This climate change means we're doomed" will be catastrophe  over and beyond  knowing  that it's  just a  fact  of inevitability,  because  a crisis of responsibility kills the soul.
Scorched earth tactics and other zero-sum shenanigans are a cruel and vicious ethic  that signals only the greatest most  ignorant.  Abuse of ecology for such purposes signals a tragic mind  which would alarm  the whole faction, and be enough for its steering committee to even consider war.

Sustainability is crucial to the faction.  But not  wildlife.

27. What is your faction’s attitude toward artificial intelligence?

It is impossible except where it would be self-evidently  catastrophic and counterproductive to the Human cause.  "Smart" automatons, on the other hand, are just really complicated tools, built with tools to  use tools to (possibly build tools to) manipulate the world as needed.  Strong AI is an indulgence not needed so long as Humans are not sterile, and  possibly  the end of  not just Humanity but All Things,  if the Singularity  both occurs and is of  an amoral type (e.g. has no rational basis for treating Humans as other than highly energy-inefficient organic paste).  At best, synthetic agents would simply be rivals as are all other life forms.  To this faction's moralizers, there is no scenario in which  Strong  AI science  comes  up with anything worth turning on.

It is hoped that  Strong AI's horrifically misguided enthusiasts would, along the way to unlocking the secret, essentially unravel  the intellect of the physical universe, whereupon any contemplation of  that production would lead back to affirming  the Human mode of being all the more, and not  writing it off .

28. What is your faction’s attitude toward the use of genetic engineering and cybernetics?

Genetic variation is  a problem-solving technique  that has no known substitute.  Until it has a substitute, the fancy of rationalia of  one  or  two dozen lifetimes  isn't gonna be enough to take any chance on changing it.  Meanwhile,  the Human Genome is   an academic paper  with  the  literally longest conceivable  citation log  on what a Human has got to be, so essentially no counterpoint  could prevail.  No one is going to be responsible for  singular experiments with it.


29. What is its stance toward the modification of non-human organisms for human benefit?

They aren't Human.  The extant question is what counts as Human benefit, which is always harder to determine.

30. What is your faction’s attitude toward religion? What is its stance on humanity’s chief religious text, the Orange-Catholic Bible?

The faction is religio incarnate.

Texts express ideas, and ideas that come from honesty are true, a truth about the person if not the world in a 'physical' way.  The faction is essentially igtheist, of course no such official platform exists to bother to state that.  Affirmation of  deities  is essentially  stamped out of youth  through  relentless questioning,  and monotheism does not exist, not a single progenitor from Unity  had any  belief of that sort at all.  A  cultural identity exists,  of a kind  of  neo-polytheism,  that started with  some  influential  essays  early on  pre-Planetfall  and  became  an essential literacy  and language of  the  highest  ranks  of status. 
Now Ladder citizens might  discuss  'churches of' various  deified concepts of  the Human condition  as a way of quickly running through a social thought experiment.  Perhaps such pantheons and temple edifices could actually form - but they would be transitory, so there's a disconnect with the usual norms of architecture.

31. What is your faction’s attitude toward Terran ideologies?

Ideology is deadly.  And the trouble of even having a system is the system always hinges on a point,  and is thus unbalanced.

32. What is your faction’s affinity?

-interlude of my opinion now-
The Civ BE affinities are incoherent nonsense.  End of line.  The Ladder would  say they are  transhumanists, were it not the case that they  already assert that Humankind is inherently in a transitory, self-transcending process,  and aiming that transformation is absurd.  It could only be justifiable on the basis  of  recognition of  transcendent truth, yet such is  impossible.  Humankind may have a Buddha here and there, may see a Christ once every ten millennia, but it could not see the world so well  as the process in the world which built the Human.


33. What is your factions mode of political organization?
They're quite mobile on that point.  I thought their thing could be  they  can  reform  SE  more frequently and with less cost,  but  are  restricted  from  choosing  -any-  thing other than  Simple  for  one of the groups, maybe simple economy.  Or maybe it's simple government,   an anocracy, for  de facto democratic liberty - with willingness to vary ecoomic and  social values tools.  Either way,  the faction can't have that Free Market.

34. What is your preferred economy type?

The  peculiar issue for this faction's ideals is  not nurturing class warfare, not having anyone sit in places where  they  get complacent and grow distant  from  whole  walks of life.  Becoming unconscious and factionalizing.  The only goal is transparency.  If  subjugation exists, at least  lying  won't.


35. What is the general configuration of your society? How do people get ahead?

Influence enough people, enough, in a way that they act such that it fulfills you.  Acquiring status and adornment is  understanding  value enough to  win it from people, same as anywhere.  I'm not sure I have an actual answer, here.
I guess a big gap is  what  gives differentiation to  sexual mating partners.

36. What is your faction’s posture towards interaction with refugees, merchants, and travelers?

Refugees are assimilated, which is done through a paraeducational system just as the children are trained.  Travelers are met with  stares - the effect of the faction's culture is to  freeze  in the presence of the unexplored, and yet it holds at this stasis.  No one will give in to fear and run, no one will turn so hostile and attack, although some may, standing their ground, indicate  weapons or combat-readiness.  Inevitably, the traveler will be greeted by someone  on whose individual curiosity  that incident  is owed. 

Almost certainly, the faction should be designed with a commerce penalty.  They get less from treaty trade than everyone else.  They're just not good at it, and they are not  welcoming enough.

37. What is your faction’s attitude towards participation in genuine multinational organizations?

Dubious.  A polity  so composed  as  to  be trustworthy  in the relevant ways  , participating via representation or totality in an expressly  multilateral  organization - implying there are lateralities to multinational affairs -  would  have to be  ideologically  the Crystal Ladder.  That is, those with differing interests  must be arranged in such a way that they are beset  by  the  uncontrolled needs  of some  kind of constituency, being different from the Ladder.  And, constituted in that way, having -essential- unruliness,  the faction  treated with  cannot  make  honest overtures.

World diplomacy can be multilateral.  But  "organization" + multilateral  makes no sense without a nation.

---
Name very much entirely a riff on White Wolf's  the Silver Ladder.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on July 17, 2015, 09:43:50 AM
Welcome, Eadee! We're more than happy to have you join the discussion. Always looking for folks to add to the development crew -- especially if they've got the ability to contribute special items like maps and icons!
Thank you, I'm quite excited to help with this. A to-do list concerning the materials we need would be great. I work best on request (ok not best, but I work much faster that way).

In terms of faction claims, I'm willing to recognize them now. Any particular faction you have in mind to play?
Honestly since I didn't know until now that I can sign up as a player the factions fell under "tl;dr". So now that I know there is a chance to get involved as  a player I'm gonna have a look at them closely. :)
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on July 17, 2015, 11:41:14 PM
Okay, I read through half of this thread and skimmed through the other half.

I have to say I really like the domain the Estada Novo claims: A somewhat Monarchic Caste-system.
But I have a background in Mind that differs a lot to Estada Novo (based on a strong believe in Reincarnation and gradual "Ascension" directed towards a wholesome "Transcendence" that's never meant to be achieved.). I understand that two different factions with this domain might be too much, so I'm asking in advance if you'd be interested in a complete writeup of this or rather not.

Also, is the tech-tree similar to SMAC/X ? Then I might begin work on the Icons based on these techs.
Square-shaped? 100x100 px rgb?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on July 18, 2015, 04:20:37 AM
Go ahead and do a write-up.

The Estado Novo was originally supposed to be a partially faith-based faction, but I suppose it really doesn't matter what they believe so long as a priestly caste is part of their four-caste structure.

In terms of the tech tree, can we schedule a time to chat? Have you got Skype? Ideally, I'd love some icons in the style of the original game. See: http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/civilization/images/d/d5/SMAC_tech_tree_poster.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140912111923 (http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/civilization/images/d/d5/SMAC_tech_tree_poster.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140912111923)
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on July 18, 2015, 07:59:29 AM
In terms of the tech tree, can we schedule a time to chat? Have you got Skype?
I do. Check your  PM inbox for the account name.
My son goes to bed at 20:00 most of the time, thats 7pm in Forum Time, I won't be available for a call before that time. Be warned, I'd say my english is fluent but I'm no native speaker so I might have to look up some of the technical terms or let you explain them to me.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on July 19, 2015, 06:57:31 AM
Hermi, I’m very excited by all the work that you have done. I want to be sure that I understand the central ideas behind the Crystal Ladder. BUncle and I are developing short summaries for each of the factions so that we can develop promotional material for the game.

Do you think that you could try to prepare a faction write-up such as the kind that I prepared for the Hunters and the Dreamers? Try to follow the instructions here: http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Faction.txt_editing_guide#Limited_Bonuses_available_only_in_SMAX (http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Faction.txt_editing_guide#Limited_Bonuses_available_only_in_SMAX)

Don’t worry if you “mess up.” The folks here are pretty great about offering constructive criticism that is both gentle and useful.

In terms of trying to understand the basics about your faction, am I correct to make the following statements?

First, in the opinion of the leadership of the Crystal Ladder, human civilization on Earth failed because it developed a taste for ignorance, and thus cultural decline, over knowledge, which begets striving and points the way toward a natural law of morality?

Second, the Crystal Ladder believes that the world (and “humanity”) is what one makes of it. The will to education, if you will, is the constant limiting factor.

Third, to survive on Chiron, mankind will need to apply its capacity for learning, because that is the basis for adaptation.

Fourth, the Crystal Ladder is indifferent to the question of re-contact with Earth.

It strikes me that your leader might naturally be the Unity mission’s Director of Education or something along those lines. (I think this faction naturally lends itself to the Unity more than to the Chiron Interstellar Probe, which was a more austere endeavor in which an educator might not have been deemed necessary.)

I’m not sure I understand your faction’s relationship with theology except inasmuch as many scholarly sorts are humanists, or else interested in different sources of wisdom.

It looks to me like your faction is primarily interested in educating the ideal citizen. You’re making your own version of the New Soviet Man, sans the Communist bent. That’s either a noble endeavor that follows in the highest traditions of Greco-Roman, or even Classical Chinese, citizenship, or else a horrifying excursion into orthodoxy.

Is all of this accurate?


Eadee, with respect to the Novo Estado, they focus on the idea that some men are born to serve, and others to rule. They are based on the examples of Italian and Portuguese fascism, which were steeped in social conservatism. I also took inspiration for the example of feudalism: some men are born to rule, others to serve; each caste is characterized by its own obligations and privileges. The faction is partly a meditation on what is owed by the strong to the weak, and on what terms. I envision the leader, Dom Francisco d'Almeida, as a rather cynical individual who believes that his personal dynamism makes him naturally fit to lead others -- and to receive their obedience in return. Are you comfortable with that?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on July 19, 2015, 10:16:53 AM
Eadee, with respect to the Novo Estado, they focus on the idea that some men are born to serve, and others to rule. They are based on the examples of Italian and Portuguese fascism, which were steeped in social conservatism. I also took inspiration for the example of feudalism: some men are born to rule, others to serve; each caste is characterized by its own obligations and privileges. The faction is partly a meditation on what is owed by the strong to the weak, and on what terms. I envision the leader, Dom Francisco d'Almeida, as a rather cynical individual who believes that his personal dynamism makes him naturally fit to lead others -- and to receive their obedience in return. Are you comfortable with that?

WellI already began with a writeup, but maybe I haven't clarified well: I'm not working on a writeup of the Novo Estado. I'm doing one for a different faction, one that is a monarchy with a caste system but with a strong spiritual motivation. I asked if it is okay to make a writeup for another faction that does claim a very similar domain (monarch caste system) to the one the Novo Estado does. I hope thats still okay for you :/
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on July 19, 2015, 04:57:58 PM
Very happy to  receive  piercing  questions  and  reform  my description.  Actually I took some liberties for the sake of humour, I should  remove those.  "Teach everyone everything"  was  too much of a joke.  The Ladder doesn't teach   all known reality.  It educates you to the point where   you are able to learn - which is way more than  ensuring literacy.  Meaningful formative experiences have to be constructed, people have to be tutored,  to  understand  learning,  not just  a sum  of things  they learn.  They have to be brought up to  where they  know  other people are  real thinking creatures who when they  disagree or  make  you  uncomfortable it's not because they're monsters it's, most of the time, because that's what they really think.  And people also have to be shown  that intuitions can be super wrong.  Not just that they have been wrong, like  geocentrism. The point is to know  that  everyone 'knew' geocentrism was right and they were wrong.
They have to  be shown  what the political structure of the modern world  is  as a consequence of everything  it  -was-, that those things were used and then rejected. 

I chose the word 'education', not knowledge or learning.  Not teaching, which is  knowledge transfer  and  the  "teacher's experience".  Education makes the individual more than what it was before.  It equips them.  What you are is able to learn.  For this  it's  actually necessary  not to  have  people  learning  so much to feel comfortable with all their  facts.  The common  and pervasive  and  eternal condition  of people is that  you're going to  not know things, you have to be  taught how to deal with that.

You wrote:  "In terms of trying to understand the basics about your faction, am I correct to make the following statements?"

First, in the opinion of the leadership of the Crystal Ladder, human civilization on Earth failed because it developed a taste for ignorance, and thus cultural decline, over knowledge, which begets striving and points the way toward a natural law of morality?
Hmm.  That's consistent with them, yeah.  A taste for ignorance.  People lived  in  holes and patches of ignorance,  of what  other people elsewhere would have considered  critical  knowledge for being an up-to-date Human being.  Then they judged each other for not  having  this  knowledge(s)  and let each other fail. 
It's two prongs.  One, the  turning their back on each other; deciding that because they don't know, there's something wrong with them (in all the senses of wrong), not just because you didn't try to tell them - try really hard.  And Two, the lacking of the knowledge.  Like having a global economy and not teaching people what that is.  Some people were being judged and not even being told against what.  Systems were designed (or run) as all-encompassing, the new world-order, except  they multiplied  for every different group  who  had less and less even experience of the other groups, no  way to empathize.

The ignorance  that the Ladder corrects isn't knowledge of each other's opinions (that's awareness), it's knowledge of the  limitations of knowledge  and knowledge  of   societal construction  in the history of civilization and the tools for empathy  that are used in that.  Critically, it makes sure every person is capable of


Second, the Crystal Ladder believes that the world (and “humanity”) is what one makes of it. The will to education, if you will, is the constant limiting factor.
The world is what one makes of it.  Who knows what the limiting factor is.  The farce of continual  'teaching' and  economic upheaval and political revolution  certainly  keeps things moving.  Human experience is occurring.  But Humankind is  going to die  if it doesn't  catch  up  to all of that experience.  It's by no means valid to assume  that  the extreme  divergence  of  Fall of Earth  is the way things are supposed to go and for the best.  Complex systems  differentiate, yes,  but then they integrate.  That's how they remain  the robust self-transcending pattern that they are.  With Time and science, the forces are getting stronger.  It will blow itself apart,  or  be bound even tighter when forces are added in the proper directions.

Third, to survive on Chiron, mankind will need to apply its capacity for learning, because that is the basis for adaptation.

To survive on Chiron, Humanity has to  not destroy itself.  We are our own worst enemy.  Learning is good.  Technology is good.  Social change is good.  Actually, all of those things are unavoidable anyway.  But as Humans develop  they  create  both  culture  and  artifacts,  and  the artifacts  are sorcery that twists Nature.  It's supposed to be  to  Humankind's benefit, but it only works  if  people are awake  when they use them. 
When you said 'taste for ignorance', I thought of this.  You ever heard the phrase  "he's sleeping on him"?  For not paying attention.  People sleep on society, or even people (the concrete-minded are valid, too).  People go to  sleep.  Repeatedly.  They're  quiescent.  That cannot be allowed to happen.  The car is running.

Fourth, the Crystal Ladder is indifferent to the question of re-contact with Earth.
Yup.  Now, some  players might think they're supposed to  bring  their political reality  to all the Humans, but others might say  that  theirs is a social reality, which their political boundaries   maintain as such - or at least that the rules change  when  a  self-recognized body  politic  asserts  that  it  defends  different values.  This is also what the players of the game  could very well decide for themselves.

It strikes me that your leader might naturally be the Unity mission’s Director of Education or something along those lines. (I think this faction naturally lends itself to the Unity more than to the Chiron Interstellar Probe, which was a more austere endeavor in which an educator might not have been deemed necessary.)
Maybe.  But there's this emphasis  on  teaching  people  like children.  At least thematically.  The practical situation would be,  it's not that  the  formative years need to be seized  to  make the right impact on  people.  If anything, being a child still gets in the way of this.  But  this is education  that the Ladder  says everyone needs  to be a functioning adult,  so there's no other time to do it.
There's two questions,  one, who is the leader  de jure.  And two,  how would the faction even form, what  throwdown would happen on the  Unity or the survey?  It's possible the two could be different people, one person(s) start the movement, and it concludes (after Planetfall) with  a popular appointment to hegemony of another guy.

I’m not sure I understand your faction’s relationship with theology except inasmuch as many scholarly sorts are humanists, or else interested in different sources of wisdom.
Not theology, no.  The minister with his flock, though.  Different sorts of wisdom  that open the mind's eye, yes.  Ascetics.  People who believe in a higher power  that's still  "us",  but more than just saying  it's  what we're capable of.
The  entire  goal  of  the  faction, (I got this wrong too) is to  create  a social reality  where everyone  is  climbing the  same  ladder,  where  any person  can  see  where they are and how things are for them and accept it  because  everyone acknowledges the  goal,  the rules,  and  can look at your  factual situation  with a straight face and you can talk about it.  You're playing the same game.  It's meaningful, you're not being  cheated.  Everyone can respect who is winning  and why things aren't great for them.  There's an  explanation, because someone everyone is explaining it, as in,  actually stating one, and putting  effort into it, because.... it matters that you have one.
This is a connection, a togetherness.  It only needs to be one tether, not  entire sameness.  You belong together in some way, that's religio.

It looks to me like your faction is primarily interested in educating the ideal citizen. You’re making your own version of the New Soviet Man, sans the Communist bent. That’s either a noble endeavor that follows in the highest traditions of Greco-Roman, or even Classical Chinese, citizenship, or else a horrifying excursion into orthodoxy.

That is the light and dark side in a nutshell, yes.  I think  the   gradual corruption of the faction  would  not be orthodoxy, though.  It would be....  the same  opportunism  and greed.  Fudging numbers.  Rationalizing  cuts or simplifications  , calling it streamlining but  actually leaving  people in the cold again.  Manipulating things  to  seize control of specialized markets.  Y'know, the same %&#$.
The only thing you wouldn't be able to do  is call your political opponent a poopie-head, because you're supposed to tell him  what he's doing wrong  so he'll agree with you, or and accept he's different and create something important from out of your argument.  You're supposed to accept that he's been made, by the world, what he is.  Now prove he should  be having what you're having - you're both capable of describing your experience and being ashamed of  getting defensive.

As remarked on cfc, the ideal citizen - one who has  -actual- equal opportunity.  Not "an appropriate standard  that I can get away with  by rationalizing  'liberty' and 'independence' and 'fiscal finitude' and 'there are other problems, I'm doing nothing about anyway but feel guilty about them please and stop bothering me on this' "  later.  When the 5yr old wants his bike,  do you  put a bicycle and helmet on the  curb  and tell him  he's a biker now,  or do you  sit him on it,  tell him how to pedal, have him go and run with him for a while? 

----
So, summary.  There are two elements here, they're distinct but they complement each other.  The New Crystalline Man.  History is critical.  It's  something to learn, it's also something to walk through,  like  a play-act,  to  wake up  your consciousness  to  the progressions  of  natural Man  unto  the sensibilities  of  modern culture.  "Each piece is a step in the process, and all of the steps must be taken" indeed.

You also have to learn  how to   say what you  mean,  and  get the truth from  people.  Figure out what they're saying.  Make it make sense.  And teach  everything you claim to know.  Prove that  others are  capable of being you  (and you  have to prove you're capable of things you aren't doing).  Fringes (or 'the whole majority')  that don't accept  the way you do things (not what you do, but what you act to value), you must  reach out to  repeatedly ,  show the precepts of your success.  You can have some pride.  Or you'll lie or  cover up your deeds which hopefully will get found quickly.  And then  if people still resent what you  do  they can tell you why, and you can believe each other that it's  morality and not jealousy or xenophobic disgust.  But definitely when they receive your effortful essay, and they don't  either  give you back what for,  or  expose your [nonsense] if you did, or return  to  their  side  of reality contented  that your differences are okay or even   thrilling,  then they get to feel mighty  odd  about  avoiding all three of those things    which means they get to feel responsible for their  own existence.  So they get to have such that, where their experience is justifiable, that's self-actuation.  Or they have an inalienable object to tell them what they have is their fault.    Either should tingle enough to wake them up, too.

And third thing.  You  have to be  woken  up  *constantly*.  All the time.  This will never be finished.  Ever.  A being that was awake all the time would be  some kind of  god, not a man.   Or  a madman like the Joker.  There is, in all probability, no transcendence out of this, or perhaps no desirable transcendence out of this.  Hypnopompia is the skill.

Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on July 20, 2015, 01:41:25 AM
The Hunters of Chiron really pop.  They  look  right.    I'd just  like to think  about what their  legal structure   is,  how do  the public at large express morals and mores.  The geniocracy looks plenty different to the university, too.

I've just learned that  some  terrible  bundleware  I got  , converted not only  file associations, but actually cannibalized some files  and  changed their  names,  which  has  compromised my  SMACX install  because  the art assets are now  "NCH.pixillion" files.  And possibly some text files, too.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on July 20, 2015, 02:01:15 AM
Hermi, I've set aside some time this evening to read your large post.

In terms of the Hunters, I think there are "band leaders" who come together, literally around the campfire, to coordinate action on a larger scale. Each band leader solicits input from his own people on a regular basis, also informally. Probably big issues are put to a plebiscite -- one man, one vote.

In terms of morality, it's John Stuart Mill's idea: your freedom ends at my nose, but is otherwise complete.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on July 21, 2015, 12:18:15 AM
I've worked on the Map we talked about and made the first requested changes.

Just have a look at it. I exported it with .html-files so you can "zoom in" into a specific region. Just extract the zip-file into a single folder and open the A000000.html, then it should work fine.

Download (http://www.mypnp.de/SMAC/PlanetZoom.zip)

It has 4 Layers.
The first one is a single Map of the whole planet.
Divided into the second layer there are 4 Maps (2by2). (no overlap of maps)
Each of those quarters is divided into 9 Maps (3by3). (no overlap of maps)
And each of those is divided into 16 Maps (4by4) of the third layer. (10% overlap of maps)
For a total of 617 Maps (16*9*4+9*4+4+1).

Before I work on the final Map I have to know if there are still changes I should do. Then I need to know how many zoom-stages you want and finally in how many tiles Planet should be separated.

edit: example-file with grid attached
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on July 21, 2015, 01:18:25 AM
Edit: I put this post into a spoiler because it was pain to open this thread with a smartphone due to the size of the graphics.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on July 21, 2015, 07:26:01 PM
So I thought what I'd do  is offer   a received view of the factions  grouped into the OP, and the New Two Thousand.  Then I'd ask  what  process could be in play  to  advance  the project  out  of  an input stage  into  .... something sequenced toward a product.  What becomes of  faction concepts  that  are  vetted and approved and polished?  How is the containing unit  of  artwork derived?  What processes come after  the creative stage of these assets?


The Hunters of Chiron.

So here's a faction  that  theorizes that    upright  Human  existence  is one which  is  challenged and driven  by  physical/material  competition  with  Nature.  And it is 'Nature' not 'the World'.  This viewpoint  is  sufficiently ambiguous between  "The purpose of Human life is..." (survival), "The way to maintain functional Human capacity is..." (outdoorsiness), "The well-understood  moral and upright Human being is..." (one who takes on the huntsman's lifestyle) and possibly other subtly different  phrases  at  different levels  of  existential, social, or physical  theory,  to  incorporate  that sort of  breadth  of  supporters and  followers  it needs to be  a large society.

There is  some form of  self-limitation,  of  avoiding certain trappings or temptations  of  technology   to  overmaster, solve, or remove problems,  and instead  to grapple with them  in a specific  domain.  A very specific domain,  one particular  component of  the Human being,  the  man with tools,  let's say.   There is, then,  this   sort  of  imposed unconsciousness;  the  influence of  the society  , if  it were to be internalized and  to state it in Freudian terms, is the superego  tells you  to  take  not the easy  way but the hard way.  Work and work until you are exhausted - and not 'work'  at  industry or  art,  but  go  out in the world  and  look at scary stuff  24/7  or until you can't take any more because your eyes are bleeding  or you have the shakes.  The  life  is one of working with the body, growing the body, augmenting the body  through its own  contained  strengthening qualities,  and then elevating/exalting  the  body, mastery of form,  as  the  last form of  Human progress, the defense of Human vice.

Perhaps it is not in that extremity of confrontation to near-death, but rather some kind of  responsibility for effort up to a point (i.e. a well-done exercise regimen, in current medical science, is performed for a certain length with a certain rhythm,  just consistently over  long spans of your life).  But another thing that seems clear is,  the  social order  is a kind of self-policing by shame.  Luxury is -not- approved of.  Not picking up  some  responsibility to  hunt  and  tame some wilderness is shameful.  So if luxury is not approved,  you might have industry,  people who make things to keep  up  with  the  'arms race' with Nature,  but  there isn't  going to  be  craft.  You aren't supposed to  make  "fine" things, or  muddle or clog your thoughts with   the aesthetics,  either of your tools as you use them,  or  your  workmanship as you create them.  No one is approved of  to make tokens  for admiration  or  symbology,  since no one  is upright with the time of day  to   luxuriate  with such  celebrations  or ceremonial  craftsmanship.

So maybe there is a line that's not where I see it  in the  designer's view.  Maybe architecture is approved.  But somewhere really quickly  is  art that no one can say it's not luxury, and the time put into such things  is contrary to  the morality  outright.

The final theory,  the one  animating Marsh specifically, is there's something  great about  actually  doing  the things in life.  Putting your body to the task,  and that  machines  'freeing up' time  is  a horrible error.  Such an error expands and caresses  an  unhelpful, vice-tendency  of  indolence  in  people.  The machines replace what life -is-, and the individual "dies" in an instant.  And it puts an end  to   what is, for Marsh, self-evidently  the  purpose of the  Human being,  to  progress   our -bodies-.  Whatever "body" is.

It's  Red Queen theory  writ large,  if  I  recall the principles correctly.

I'm working  on all the other four and  put them  up at once, I think.  I don't mean to  go into length  with  the lot of them ,  it is a 'received view',  my  reception of what was  said, I want to  not read into them  , for the purpose of trading knowledge at this stage.  Hunters are just an exception.  I guess what I was thinkin g was it was to  evaluate  the descriptions, look at  how  they would manifest  to  the  wide audience  consuming them.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on July 23, 2015, 01:39:08 AM
So, essentially, the Ladder promotes the art of critical inquiry while at the same time emphasizing that reality is constructed: history, values, morality – they are literally what we make of them.

Am I correct to presume that the danger of moral relativism would be balanced by a belief in liberty à la the style of John Stuart Mill? That is, your liberty ends where the tip of my nose begins?

Okay, another “striving” faction. I like it. You’ll find that intellectual laziness is a charge that a lot of factions throw around when talking about why human civilization on Earth failed.

I’m OK with fluid leadership, but one of the limitations of the original game format was that every faction had a single, established leader. We’ll need to identify someone to hold that space for the purpose of making your faction write-up.

In terms of faction development, the Hunters are more or less complete. They have an associated picture (Robert Muldoon from Jurassic Park). I think you accurately describe both the good and bad aspects of such a society. They’re also a very rambling faction. Architecture isn’t approved; it’s more like there’s no zoning. Shanties next to pre-fab shelters.

Eadee – The hexes look terrific! So does the globe!

Great start with the lightbulb! I think that it’s a little cluttered, to be honest. Maybe just the bulb inside the stylized star? Also, can we try a different look for the blub?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on July 23, 2015, 04:15:24 AM
"what we make of them"  it's the second time you mentioned it,  and it  doesn't sound right.  It seems to be your preoccupation , and perhaps you  mean to examine what that would look like  if  used as the seed of a  faction concept on its own.  I'm much too fearful  that is some sort of  illusion cast over this proposal to agree with it.

There is a certain proposal  that  there is not  much higher order  commitment  to  the "right" way to live, it's not that it comes  from  a certain authority, tradition,  sagely caste, or  pre-specifiable lifestyle.  But  it is  scientific about  what  societies  work and which ones fall.  And  what societies cease to be themselves  and  become, apparently as a consequence of being what they were before,  something subsequent.  These transformations  can be  thought of  as  having causes,  and  being  repeatable,  and  having something factual about them  beyond  choice  or  design.  There are possible societies,  but they are constrained by something,  and  the sociology to know  which things  are viable and which aren't  is,  -at least-, going to require the data about what all that is.  The Ladder is not  declaredly trying to predict  social  change.  The Ladder is a constitution and nationhood, the people make of  the constitutional provisions what they will.  That constitution is to guarantee   people  are  in the  present  of society  and  know what is going on, are shown it,  because making it known matters  and it's not at all natural to  go seek it out, or figure out how to  ingest  "the structure of civilization" as a  self-study.  The other stuff is the  moralization behind this idea, that you have to wake people up, and keep doing it throughout the ages.  Everyone, even the best, fall asleep. It is a generational flaw.

So the Ladder could take that history in a number of ways, as could the citizens.  Just some facts, to get  and then go fit in.  Or someone could  ask  the question    ,  is there some unifying  order to  it  that  we don't know but actually does exist independent of us?  Or  could someone find, it really is  this  linear progression  caused  by  event X  and statesman Y  and  religion Z.  At the least, something has to  induce  theorists and journalists and  even  social content producers  to get out there and describe  the Present,  to keep the thing going.  Years from then,  the  sociology of the time is going to require the data,  just as  Kepler needed  Tycho Brahe.

The implicit notion of the Ladder  is that society is about getting the constitution right.  Enduring, less-than-malleable ideas  that define  the nation  (and it is a nation, a place that people call their own  and belong to),  shaping all other institutions  as a kind of  social core.  The Crystal Ladder's constitution  is to  not  let  people wander about  utterly confused  about  how their society works  -  what the rich are doing with the money, for instance.  Or,  how central banks  even -define- money, for that matter.   You are being equipped to succeed,  not  to  fail, not to be a puppet, and   foremost, actually, not to   invest your  future  at  the midpoint of life  and  -then- realize  you don't know what it means to be Human, and any thought you ever entertained and directed toward 'society' was less than pointless because  you  hadn't an  idea  that even referred to it let alone could be said to be  false.
Mainly because  that kind of  helplessness, confusion, and betrayal on the part of Society-as-such,  induces  genocidal malfeasance in people.


I'm intrigued about the moral relativism decay.  I feared that the Ladder would become  moral absolutism,  or, more insidiously, that its  very  bent  on  propagating  knowing ownership  of  the  construction of history   would  just  so easily  be corrupted  into  information control, stateism , and  social engineering (the bad kind) meant to serve  the oligarchs.  You know, the idea of  breeding a whole  society of people who think they live in a  liberal  golden era  but in fact  are  fanatical beyond belief, quite ironically quiescent  and all the like.  Rewriting history and such.
edit:  I mean, after considering the above reason to  prevent  moral relativism, I would put to you the question: What counterbalances moral relativism  in  -our- society?  Apart from it being wrong,  the  young people  are actually  engorged  with  that kind of thinking.  Schools are a painful place to be right now. 
This faction is gambling everything that despite  the Fall of Earth,  people are not  that sick.  It's still up to them to  make things right,  not an  ideologue's authority.  It is perhaps  fatalist  about the question, foremost;  if it's sick, then it's sick,  and  the  de facto power, the  steering committee or the  upper rung  or what have you, of this faction...  they're not in this  to  reap  value  off the  rest of it.  They're in this because, like Our Man  $CRYSTAL_LEADERHEAD_NAME, I guess,  they're compelled to  give people  the chance for  authenticity, even if that's an authentic death.

For purpose of maximal distinctiveness,  the idea  would  be  a society that is as centrist as it needs to be  to  run  such a program, and  be a nation,    and  has economically right-wing values  to  starkly contrast  with  Lal and Yang,  but  is fundamentally  liberal  in  the matter of what  socially people are up to.  The only right you don't have is to be ignorant, I guess.  Or to be  enigmatic.   You cannot knowingly exercise the first.  And you must forever be compelled to initiate others to  the same consciousness of  life  that sustains you, so long as  you want  laws  and polices to hold such  people  in line with your  notion of the rules.  No regulation without inculcation, as it were.



I can  put  someone  in charge of the faction, I meant only to say that  a) I am less clear myself on  what nature of that person it would be, and b) there are narrative tools at our disposal  to make the  leader  distinct  from  the  advocate  who  generated the faction  ex  the  Unity Dissent.
It could be  chaired by  someone  in  librarial sciences, heck.  He'd be the less personable face,  but  it could be done.

Director of Education - works
Child psychologist - the trope would hit too heavy, maybe.
Scholar of  eastern philosophy  /  Scholar of theology -  Too much steady-state theoretical commitments if the scholar actually is religious, as they stereotypically are.

The librarial sciences angle  is kind of neat  since it would  be  a  computer science technician, really, someone who is looking  at information  delivery,  network design,  and is  proactive and creative about  knowledge networking  especially  with  future technologies, as an engineering kind of problem  in some way.  But there's a glut  of  "sciencey folk", right?  So  director of education would be good.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on July 23, 2015, 05:15:00 PM
Or, well,   one could propose transforming  and  altering  the  concept to  be  whatever in order to accommodate  the  game work  in its entirety,  but  if  so  then  I would  be obliged to hear out where  you see  your  view  of it  with this "it's what you make of it" proposition  to arise  from  the other parts.  More of a roadmap,  some  landmarks,   ... what's your received view?

Stuart Mill's theory of  liberty  might  be  a  good statement  of  how  certain  modern societies  conduct Law.  It would come up in an historic context.  It might even describe the present that the society chooses to start with,  if for some reason  all those easterners I'm 90% sure the faction is made of decided they liked English rule(s).  Committing to  that  proposal as a description  of what  Human institution is right would be,  no,   a  nonstatement for  Crystal Ladder  doctrine.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on July 24, 2015, 12:21:24 AM
Hermi, "The world is what we make of it" is a concept and phrase often linked to a formal philosophy known as Constructivism. I think we are in perfect agreement. Nothing that you have said below was inconsistent with my understand of your faction based on your previous comments.

The international relations theory of constructivism is rooted in the observation that all behavior is learned. There is no playbook given for interaction between societies per se. No interests or identities are necessarily fixed.

As far as I can tell, your faction is about arming people with both an education to deal with the world around them critically, and a constructivist philosophy that emphasizes the ability of human beings to choose, through action and behavior, to create the norms by which they wish to live.

I think that it makes logical sense that your leader, or at least the individual supplying the basis of your faction's ideology, would be the Unity's Director of Education. It is feasible that they would have a lot of behavioral scientists and philosophers to work with. (It isn't as if those folks are likely to be snapped up by anybody else. The only other faction with a direct interest in psychology, the Dreamers, is already on Chiron when yours leaves Earth.)
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on July 25, 2015, 02:39:09 AM
Got a map done with all the hex-tiles on it. Its only 215 tiles circumference instead of 300, I hope its enough.
Maps in different styles (altitude, climate, rainfall, temperature) will follow, but only a small version without the tiles.

Download-Link zip-file (https://www.dropbox.com/s/13fkz79m5q3dgqr/Planet.zip?dl=0)
edit: Upload complete, be warned, its big (210,78MB)

Content of the zip-file (dropbox-link):
One big map in max resolution (14544x7558px).
5 northern segment-maps of Planet in max resolution (4365x3779px).
5 southern segment-maps of Planet in max resolution (4365x3779px).
One Wallpaper of Planet (1920x1080px  slightly warped).

Attached:
One small map of Planet (1024x530px).
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on July 25, 2015, 04:56:41 AM
Then we are in agreement!  Darn  forum  crashed on me all yesterday.  So I  chipped at  more  config file /  profile stuff.

But there's , for me,  a  critical additional flavour  that  people are being shown  how their society works.  That  you have to tell people what's actually happening.  Forget about  initiating people to critical thinking (that's a sagely burden to carry indeed!) , let's just go  over the facts.  And the facts get to be the facts how the present construes them, so the idea of  bias or  remoteness of history, or of inherent interpretability (necessity of  creative insight renewed by many people, something like this) is sidestepped as "obstacles" to that truth because  those are the truths we're setting out  to divulge.  What are your fellow  Man up to?, with these resources and environment  that very darn well  impact you  directly.  Nobody's business is truly not your business, if either party changes its relationship to you afterward (which can happen  in plenty of  very  likely ways, I have them enumerated).  The Ladder wants data  just  flyin' around, descriptions of  the patterns and rules and practices.  And if  there are contemporary theorists to  give models  for  any emergent, not fully conscious patterns, then, that's all to the good.    This is  I guess something mixed in to the power structure, rather than the legal system as such, or otherwise gets into  the  pervasive and defining sentiment.  The University is "Let's do science, and bind our commitments to material reality", which ain't a formula to run a university, but it does tell people  "what to do" and whether they're getting it right or wrong, whether they're playing a part  or not.  The Crystal Ladder is, "Describe the social world."

 It's not some magic  that  those who are insightful enough  to  watch the wave and stay ahead of it  are "rewarded" for  grasping trends.  It's that nobody gets left  with  pure confusion    about (*) how their   legislative procedures  boondoggle what supposedly matters, and (*) how  business practices  on the largest scales are actually being conducted and  more-or-less  codified  at the moment by the big players, to whatever effect on  the value of currency, or the creation of "wealth" whatever that is, and (*) how [anything else that people are doing and  thereby constructing the real operation of society on the largest scale].  People get to at least  have a discussion  about such things  when  they're on the same page given the directions to make it into the same  room (on a certain floor of the right building on the right day, to beat the metaphor to death)  of knowing  what  is happening  with  the  capital  and the laws and the research grants and the procedures, and everything 'informal' and 'unofficial' too,   and then they don't have to be distrustful or even  seditious  of that social order (if there is one there) because of how pre-eminently threatening  a  big secret is.  And certainly, for the decisions that directly affect everyone,  your  system  is a lot more stable  if  it has  scrutiny from  every  position of  the living body politic, maybe even  vociferous support from people who see what you're really doing and not some sham poster you put up ;  meanwhile  definitely not  the mute horror  of  exclusion and ignorance.

(click to show/hide)

The people are there full stop, but society is produced or it isn't.  So to coin yet another  catchphrase,  the best defense  for  society is to  breed people  who  want to have society, and not the reverse.  Yup, the Ladder makes people  critical thinkers, or professional, or capable of self-knowledge, or whatever you call it, it's a single  "skill" only its a training of the spirit  which is really why  it can only be called  education, you're being edified.   The Ladder  does that by telling people what's going on   and what the real obstacles are,  and how history worked through multiple forms of it to get to  today,  and to be Constructivists about it,  they  say none of it happens without somebody actually  standing up to  make it a particular way  (and being  strong enough to do it, whatever part one person can have in making a thing  by definition  extended across all people at all times),  and,  to be Constructivists about it,  the ideology then gets out of the way and watches  people make society, whilst not a damn thing stops them.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on July 29, 2015, 01:56:51 AM
Looking good, Hermi! When I get back from vacation in a week, I'll sit down and try to hash out an in-game faction write-up based on the information that you have provided. Once you approve, we'll post it on the website.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on July 29, 2015, 02:22:06 AM
I've done some maps with more information on Planet:

Altitude.png: heigths and depths of Planet.
Terrain.png: terrain on Planets surface.
Xenofungus.png: density of xenofungus.
Temperature.png: default is Fahrenheit, but I added a scale in °C so I'm not completely lost.
Rainfall.png: in inches per year.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on July 31, 2015, 09:21:26 AM
Here the SMAC-writeup for the faction I'm working on. I'll post a less technical writeup too as soon as I find the time.

Quote
#ROY
Royal Realm of the Rising, The Royal, Royals, F, Pahalē, F, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0,
 TECH, Brain, SOCIAL, -PLANET, SOCIAL, +MORALE, SOCIAL, -ECONOMY, SOCIAL, -EFFIC, SOCIAL, ++SUPPORT, IMPUNITY, FUNDAMENTAL,

VOTES, 0.5 FREEFAC, 22
 Politics, Fundamental, RESEARCH
 Politics, Democratic, nil
 Royal, Roy.,
 Charon, Gallahan, Arc of Charon
 Highness, merciful, snotty, exalted, childish
 [Together we shall both] lead our people [and]
 [My intent is] lead my people through the stages of Ascension
 [She is bent on] imposing her ridiculous believes on all of us
 [You seem bent on] imposing your ridiculous believes on all of us
 [I shall not stand here while you] brainwash every single person on Planet
 [She spends her time] drinking tea and combing her hair
 [You spend your time] drinking tea and combing your hair
 [I have been accused of] oppressing my own people
 [Your] lofty manner [does not impress me]
 [Think how this could benefit your] glorious lineage and its memorial
 [I trust your] adulations [are proceeding to your satisfaction]
 [It is customary to remit me a small] tithe [...]
 [...for the services my forces provide in] leading humanity through the stages of Ascension
 [I shall instruct] the Knights [to see that no such]
 [You are in contravention of] the instruction to the Ascension of the human race

#BASES
The Prophets Crib
Royal Palace
The Round Table
Wallfahrtsort
Castle [...]
[...]keep

#WATERBASES
Moated Castle
Depths of Thought


Though I shall fall twice while you fall once, my soul shall return to you. As the first child sired on Planet I shall be

the first in our ranks and lead humankind on its way through ascension.
^
^               -Prophet Kirshan Divari
^                     "The Prophecy of Planetfall"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Pahalē}
^BACKGROUND: {Born on Planet, Reincarnation of the Prophet Kirshan Divari}
^AGENDA: {Ascension, of the individual through reincarnation and of humankind as a whole through evolution and research.}
^TECH: {Secrets of the Human Brain}
^

#DATALINKS2
^-1 PLANET {ruthless exploitation of Planets ressources}
^+1 MORALE {strong believe in the royal caste}
^-1 ECONOMY {a big part of the wealth is spent on temples}
^-1 EFFICENCY {energy wasted on rivalries between fiefdoms}
^+2 SUPPORT {military supplied by the fiefdoms}
^Impunity to Fundamentalism {the nobility leads the way through Ascension}
^-50% Votes for Planetary Governour and Supreme Leader {lower castes lack suffrage}
^Free GENEJACK FACTORY at every Base when discovered {lower castes are enhanced by force}

#FACTIONTRUCE
"Humankind suffered too long because of our differences $NAME1, let us end this bloodshed before we fall to far.”

[Acceptance dialogue] “Well spoken, let us end this bloodshed here and now.”
[Rejection dialogue] "Too late $NAME3. Now you will pay for your hubris."

#FACTIONTREATY
“$TITLE0 $NAME1, your achievements prove the nobility of your blood. Would you be inclined to sign a Treaty of Friendship?

You might even be able to marry-in into one of our noble houses.”

[Acceptance dialogue] “I feel flattered, your Highness. It will be a pleasure to sign this treaty."
[Rejection dialogue] "You will have to coninue your inbreeding, I'm not interested."
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on August 06, 2015, 06:29:51 AM
Here's a spooky  factionfile  to  give the last touch of perspective I can  get  for the Crystal Ladder.

But before that:  No,  I figured it out.  This isn't the  director of education  spearheading  the  split.  This is the anthropologists!  They get to talking,  and the sociologists and  specialists of education  pick it up.  So then you got the anthropologists, sociologists, historians, library and information science technicians, and  the  educators  all having the same idea  there's some work to be done  and  a point to prove.

And the  dark side to the leader isn't  condescension, it's facetiousness.  The fear that all he is doing  is  turning  a pandemonium upon  Human society  and  smiling  devilishly.  Tempting  pride  out of  the Ladder citizens.  Yang crushes their spirit,  mystery-man  expands their  will.  Miriam subjects  their awe to God,  mystery-man  turns their awe  toward  the absence of one.

Quote
;
; Faction draft
;
; FACTION FILE: The Crystal Ladder
;
;
;
;
;
;
;

#LADDER
The Crystal Ladder, The Sociologist, Ladder, M, 2, ???, M, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0,
  TECH, Psych, SOCIAL, -GROWTH, SOCIAL, -INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, -PLANET, SOCIAL, ++EFFIC, NODRONES, 1, FREEFAC, 8, COMMERCE, -2,
  Economy, Simple, TALENT
  Politics, Fundamentalist, nil
  Ladder, Ladder
  Namesh, Amit-Singh, Amit-Singh Emergency Broadcast Tower
  Chairman, diligent, bookish, nurturing, facetious
  rhetorical devil
  foster the acculturation of modern Man
  to liberate awareness of the intentful life
  turning every demon of the individual loose on civilization
  turning every demon of the individual loose on civilization
  whitewash the social fabric itself
  planning more impressive ways to seem important
  planning more impressive ways to seem important
  condescending to teach hollow truisms
  crypto-theocratic grandeur
  educational objectives
  librarial studies
  fiscal credit donation
  mediating industrial expansion and social change
  the Ladder constabularies
  social teleology mandates

#BASES
Common Core
Learning Milestone
Lesson Materials
Reference Library
Advance Placement
Hyperlink Gallery
Critical Period
Museum of Yesterday
Centre for Urban Centre Research
Formative Assessment
Psych Auditorium
Practical Exam
Social Network Hub
Integrity Journal
Avicenna Academy
Podium of History
Commencement Address
Stadium for the Countercultural Arts
World Generator
Political Cafe
Summative Assessment
Genie's Lamp
Final Evaluation
#END

#WATERBASES
Tapwater Post
Thales' Redoubt
Speech Bubble
Fluid Intelligence
Continental Relay
Dragon Isle
Dialectic Distortion
Revolutionary Wave
Surface Complex
Depth Psychology
Pure Potential
#END

#BLURB
"??"
 ^
 ^      -- ???
 ^         "Formation of a People"

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {???}
^BACKGROUND: {Director of Education, Unity mission}
^AGENDA: {Educate and vocalize citizenry}
^TECH: {Social Psychology}
^

#DATALINKS2
^-1 INDUSTRY {Social emphasis subordinates industry and engineering}
^-1 GROWTH {Educational standard reduces birth rates}
^-1 PLANET
^+2 EFFIC
^Free NETWORK NODE with discovery of Information Networks: {Data connectivity highest priority}
^Fewer DRONES (1) at every base
^Commerce penalty: {Impediments to opportunism and market mobility}

#FACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"War has nothing to teach.  We know how it ends.
Declare Blood Truce with us so we may ponder in peace."

"It is agreed.  This conflict is no more cause for violence."
"You talk too much."

#FACTIONTREATY
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Your social project has merit, $TITLE0 $NAME1.
The Crystal Ladder would sign a Treaty of Friendship to show our trust."

"I had the same idea.  Let us keep the dialogue open."
"Good fences make good neighbours, $NAME3.  Perhaps another time."

# ; This line must remain at end of file

Either they're  underpowered, or just have too many special traits.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on August 13, 2015, 05:46:45 AM
Some corrections:


What do you think?  Come at me from all angles.  I really feel like  I've hit something that belongs in a game with these fellow tokens.  I want to make this game happen , some of me is attached to that possibility quite dearly.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on August 15, 2015, 06:10:54 AM
Looks good, Eadee. A combination of mysticism and feudalism. Can you tell me more about what it means to ascend? It sounds to me as if your faction is a bunch of people who are basically being gulled into contributing toward Pahalē’s personal vision of the future. Feel free to tell me that I’ve got it wrong, of course. 

Hermi, I think your faction idea is sound. I like the fact that you’ve linked them to a part of the crew that is not yet represented. I think that your faction will clash well with the others, which is the point.

I know that I’ve been off the grid lately. Work picked up and has been quite intense. I’m still committed to this game, but I think it’s going to be a while before I can really commit time on a consistent basis. Probably not until the Fall.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on August 16, 2015, 09:45:59 AM
Looks good, Eadee. A combination of mysticism and feudalism. Can you tell me more about what it means to ascend? It sounds to me as if your faction is a bunch of people who are basically being gulled into contributing toward Pahalē’s personal vision of the future. Feel free to tell me that I’ve got it wrong, of course.
I'm already working on a proper writeup, but since its taking more time than expected I'll answer your questions in adance:

What does it mean to ascend? (on a level of the community)
Ascension is a continous process that happens on a physical level and a spiritual level at the same time. It is not supposed to have a final stage of perfection but rather to guarantee that humankind does get better every generation rather than to stagnate at one level of existence. Ascension is driven by things like evolution and virtuousness. The higher castes are rumored to know how to further ascension of humankind as a whole, so the whole society works on supporting those individuals in all of their goals.

What does it mean to ascend? (on a personal level)
One is born into a caste and will (almost) never change the caste during a lifetime. If you do especially well it is seen as a prove that you are in the case you belong to. If you're not doing badly you made wrong decisions you might compensate again later in this lifetime. Only if you screw up really hard you might get expelled from any caste to join the caste of the outcasts. A change between castes is supposed to be achieved through reincarnation. So if someone did exceptionally well in his life he can expect to be reborn in a higher caste and therefore he can expect to live a better life in this reincarnation.

Are people being gulled into working on Pahalē’s personal vision?
Pahalē wasn't the original leader of this faction. The influental psychologist and guru Kirshan Divari gathered quite some followers on earth and took them all the way to Chiron. The whole paradigm is based upon his vision and his teachings. However he died during Planetfall.
The right hand of Kirshan is named Adrian Elstock. He pretends to be a religous man, but he's just interested in the power this whole religion provides. He leads the faction shortly after planetfall since Pahalē who is said to be the reincarnation of Kirshan Divari still has to grow up. Adrian was in control of Pahalē's upbringing and he is quite a manipulator, therefore she trusts him, and especially early on she follow all of his advice even after she grew old enough to lead the faction on her own. But she has her own mind and is much more emotional than the meticulous planner Elstock. She does believe in the teachings of Kirshan Divari since she grew up with them.
So people are manipulated from time to time, but the manipulator is Adrian Elstock, using the visions and teachings of Kirshan Divari as a tool of control. Pahalē is manipulated as well here and there, but all in all the greed of Adrian Elstock did hold the faction together for many years. Its in his best interest to let it prosper since he belongs to the highest caste and gets all the benefits possible on Planet.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: ComradeCrimson on August 19, 2015, 07:18:31 AM
Do you need voice acting for this at all?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on August 23, 2015, 02:46:19 AM
Hermi, I think your faction idea is sound. I like the fact that you’ve linked them to a part of the crew that is not yet represented. I think that your faction will clash well with the others, which is the point.


"Sound" ?  I should get a medal for the colony names alone.   :D

I'll be checking around again September.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on September 28, 2015, 11:41:14 PM
New faction idea, inspired by the thoughts of mathematics, music, and the making of a fine meal:

The Symposium

1. Why did human civilization fail on Earth?

Humankind forgot their true feelings, lost in a sea of bland malaise.  Deprived of joy and horror, frost nor fugue, nihilism ultimately came, leading to the Great Collapse and forever postponing even any meaningful war.

2. What are the fundamental constants of human nature or the universe at large? What are the practical implications of your answer?

Human beings have sentiments.  Things just -feel- real.  And when these sentiments or impressions are suppressed, countered against, or bamboozled with the idiocy of "logic" or norms of "rationality", people lose themselves.  And it's horrible.  And it should never even start, let alone the need to stop.

3. What will be necessary to ensure humanity’s survival on Chiron?

Boldness.  Braveness.  The creative passions, and a celebration of feeling.  Tastes.  Smells.  Making memories both grand and painful.  A place and a respect for every part of life, and a communion of feelings in these edifices.
The world is a moving canvas, not blank.  Our colors and tears spill onto the page; our heat tears strands across it in furious strokes.

The answer to this is just a definition of Humanity.  Humankind is a feeling creature, and a creature that can comprehend the outer world and inner world.  An animal is naked.  A Human fears to be naked, but can choose deliberately to show itself.  Our hesitance makes the Deliverance of destiny simultaneously fulfilling, and meant-to-be, transcending the preponderance of "Free will".

4. Should an attempt be made to re-establish contact with Earth?

Yes.  100%.  The call to home is part of every individual, and most especially seen in those lacking the 'nuclear' arrangement held as typical.

5. What is the major end-game, or “project,” of this faction?

Liberation and expression.  Tomorrow is not given.  People have satisfying lives by being encouraged (en-courage-d) to perform, profess, sing, dance, and spell out the zest of life.  This harmony is exemplified in the artists of the oldest elements of settled Human life:  the cook (chemist), the musician (rhythm), and the painter (impression).

6. What is the faction’s proper name?

Symposium

7. What is the proper adjective for your faction?

Symp

8. What is the popular slang for your faction?

Simps

9. What is your faction’s symbol?

A series of line segments figured in a stop-motion photo of a collapse to the right.

10. What are your faction’s colors? (Choose two.)

white, bright violet

11. What are your faction’s words?

"The choice is freedom or death." (Magic the Gathering: Words of War, Onslaught printing)

12. What is your faction leader’s name?
?

13. What is the leader’s gender?
??

14. What concept or trope does the leader embody?
Music connoisseur, polymath, distracted but profound

15. What was the leader’s position, if any, on the command staff? How did they end up aboard Unity?
Xenoscience, ecological chemistry?

16. From where on Earth are this faction’s followers most likely to originate?
Search me.

17. What were the pre-planetfall political and religious convictions of a typical member of your faction?
?

18. From what walks of life are the faction’s followers most likely to emerge?
Liberal Arts majors

19. What does a typical follower look like?
??

20. What does your faction prioritize?
Earthy Human lifestyles.  Simplicity.  Unions of the various walks of life and avocations - for community purposes, not economic purposes (not principally).

21. What is your faction’s agenda?

A society with no crime - no appetite for crime, with the bounty of things being available and the means by which to take such elements to a fulfilling life quite ready at hand.  To disclose, unveil, unmask the wonder of the inner spirit.  The outer world shifts with a strong heartbeat on its own time; this need not trifle a -Liberated- soul one instant.

22. What is the personality of your leader?
Music connoisseur, polymath, distracted but profound

23. What is your faction’s default behavior?
Territorial, schizoid, isolationist, self-concerned (not competitive), expansive (passive).

24. To what does your faction have strong aversions?
Class structure, technocracy

25. What is your faction’s moral paradigm?
Judge not.  Synergize.

26. What is your faction’s attitude toward ecology?
Personal preference.  Do nothing to the Commons that would raise Hell, otherwise, it's free for all.  Some may be nature maniacs, others may hide out from it.  "Whatever, man."

27. What is your faction’s attitude toward artificial intelligence?
Taboo.  It's perverse.  Strange, and frightening, but ultimately it doesn't make sense.  So it's inhuman (to work at it).

28. What is your faction’s attitude toward the use of genetic engineering and cybernetics?
Genetic engineering is for life to decide, not science.  Cybernetics is as individual as the ecology approach.  You raise distrust at your own peril, but sure, maybe you'd find something parrot-worthy.


29. What is its stance toward the modification of non-human organisms for human benefit?
Thumbs up!  Humankind has the Good Stuff.  Let everything join in.


30. What is your faction’s attitude toward religion? What is its stance on humanity’s chief religious text, the Orange-Catholic Bible?
Um.


31. What is your faction’s attitude toward Terran ideologies?
Obvious.


32. What is your faction’s affinity?

The Civ BE affinities are incoherent nonsense.

33. What is your factions mode of political organization?
anocracy.  Implicit unions, possibly guilds would occur.  Big decisions are committed at convocations from every "walk of life", which would drive the impetus for formalized unions.

34. What is your preferred economy type?
Market economy

35. What is the general configuration of your society? How do people get ahead?
Be interesting.  Be a good host.  Sing the song of Humanity, paint it in pimento.  Fellows follow.

36. What is your faction’s posture towards interaction with refugees, merchants, and travelers?
Extraverted.

37. What is your faction’s attitude towards participation in genuine multinational organizations?
Eh.



Quote from: Axis Kast;13860203
1. Why should somebody in desperate circumstances join that faction? What's the "pitch"?
....
Simplify.  Ain't nothin' so hard out there to worry about.

2. What does your faction believe is the reason that human civilization failed on Earth?

Too much hullabaloo.  No feeling.

3. What does your faction believe are the fundamental truths of the universe?
No such thing.  It is what it is.

4. What does your faction believe is necessary for humanity to succeed on Chiron?

Don't forget your roots.  Live loud.  Or smile subtle.  Novelists, poets, and the chemister in the kitchen; be simple, make sense.  What you need is right in front of you.

5. How might an ungenerous critic or skeptic describe your faction?
Rabble
Plebeians
Incoherent mass
Contradictory self-organization

6. What were your inspirations?
The subject matter of chemistry and music themselves.

--
The fact that Symposium actually has "Simp" in there is hilarious, isn't it?  Also a nod to Douglas Hofstadter cannot be escaped.  Nor the Magic The Gathering card game and its proposal of the red mana.

Coming soon:  The Draconomicon, keepers of draconian edicts!
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on October 09, 2015, 04:28:31 PM
I remain interested in developing this fiction; but you could say, that my PENCHANT for delay persists  :danc:  haha, puns.

Does anyone here remember the face of Randall Shoop from Simcity2000?  He's sort of what I imagined for the leader of the Crystal Ladder (which is still incompletely explained, in my view).
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Horseshoe_Hermit on November 16, 2015, 01:15:15 AM
You know, I think that constructivism misrepresents the Ladder, and I'm sorry for relenting the point earlier.

It is not pure education which I meant to get at , originally, but instead leadership and networking.  The constant broadcasting of one's own virtues and processes, principles.  There would be no such thing as a trade secret.  All people would be equally able to imitate 'the good life', whoever had the best idea of such.  Social mores would require you to keep a log of your successes.

That is how I thought to avert factionalism.  (Of course, the real cause of factionalism is insecurity, which is simply a Human foible.)

My interest in expanding the draconian Kant lawyers depends on surviving kindle for this project.  Hello? Anyone there?
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on November 16, 2015, 03:48:55 AM
I don't really have time for game development lately due to a more intensive schedule at work. However, with the release of Fallout 4, I am sure to have new meditations on the human condition post-apocalypse. I have not abandoned this project, but expect the hiatus to extend until at least the winter holidays.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Eadee on February 09, 2016, 09:32:16 AM
I just felt like doing something with my clumsy hands:
(http://www.mypnp.de/SMAC/HUDwFr.gif)
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on August 18, 2016, 03:52:20 AM
Okay. Back at it.

Right now, I don't have a timeline to blast-off (ha ha) for the second iteration of this game, but there is a blueprint for getting ready.

We'll begin by finalizing the list of playable factions. This game will include both major and minor factions.

During the last go-around, I let players design their own factions. With one notable exception, however, ideology fell by the wayside almost at once. This was partially because the work of colonization is the same whether you are Deirdre or Morgan. Nonetheless, the deficit was also caused by the fact that most people wanted to play factions of roughly the same outlook. To prevent this happening a second time, all the factions will be fully realized at game start. Players will step into, rather than design them.

Here are the factions so far. More to follow. I'd love some feedback.

The Dreamers of Chiron - A faction led by Roshann Cobb, a pharmaceutical executive and colonial charter-holder, and Alegia Cohen, Head of Neurosurgery for the CIP. They are basically drug-pushers who are interested in exploring various aspects of the human mind on Chiron, having discovered that the unique biome has haleucinogenic properties.

Gaia's Stepdaughters - An experiment in green feminist self-government. Gaians believe that Earth was destroyed because humans failed to steward the natural environment. The paradigm I am going for is eco-radicals. The Gaians are led by Speaker Deidre Skye. Their government type is direct democracy. The operative paradigm here is eco-radicalism.

Holnists - An homage to the hyper-survivalist, anti-government radicals of David Brin's post-apocalyptic masterwork, The Postman. Holnists represent the human Id. The Holnists are a kratocracy of violent misfits. Think General Bethlehem's army in the film version of The Postman, or, for those of you that haven't seen that movie, Lord Humungus's gang of marauders in Road Warrior. The Holnists are led by Jeremiah Holn, son of the famed author and radio personality, Kellogg Holn. This is a minor faction. Most of their members will insist that human civilization failed because the weak demanded too much of the strong and ultimately used government to steal from the wealthy until productivity dried up and progress became impossible, but to say that they have a coherent philosophy would be too generous. Really, they employ a series of justifications for patently anti-social behavior.

The Honored Dead - An embattled group of colonists holding out against the Holnists in an isolated outpost somewhere on Chiron. Inspired by the de Maraias family (French rubber plantation) in the director's cut of Apocalypse Now. This is a minor faction. They have basically fetishized death.

The Human Hive - Chairman Yang's bunch. A faction that combines the hermit kingship of North Korea with a patina of Chinese legalism. Yang is the ultimate survivor. He will never allow himself to be subject to others, and the idea here is that he figures that the construct of a hive is best-suited to creating a power base to preserve his ability to act. Officially, he claims that functional human organizations can only be built upon selfless labor directed by leaders who have achieved a degree of enlightenment. A major faction. Yang governs per a despotism, although there is a caste system. Nerve stapling is commonplace.

The Hunters of Chiron - Led by Jeremy Tanner Marsh, a former SAS man. Basically, a collection of hunters, roughnecks, and long-range scouts. These are the people who operated outside the perimeter of the colony first set up by the Chiron Interstellar Probe. Marsh believes that to survive on Chiron, man must live in dialogue with the land. That doesn't necessarily mean that he wants to practice the asceticism of a Gaian, but it does mean that Marsh believes that human beings must have a physical component to their lifestyles and that they would be well-advised to respect their natural surroundings. The Hunters have established a republican form of government in which various bands elect a representative to a larger council. Quasi-Luddites. A minor faction.

The Human Ascendancy - A major faction, led by the Chiron Interstellar Probe's chief geneticist, Dr. Tamineh Pahlavi. The Ascendancy is all about breeding a human super-soldier in a test tube. The idea is to engineer the perfect settler, Homo Sapien Superior. The government type is geniocratic. Interestingly, Pahlavi rejects cybernetics because she fears that integrating machinery into the evolutionary path would introduce unpredictable variables that would complicate her efforts. A major faction.

The Conclave - A kritarky (government by judges) led by Primarch Miriam Godwinson. Fundamentalists violently opposed to robotics and genetic medicine. Miriam plans to establish a planetwide theorcracy. They believe that factions choosing to engage with the world around them on purely empirical grounds are isolating themselves from the body of God's elect and spurning His message. The Conclave opposes restoration of contact with Earth. They interpret Unity's launch as the start of the post-diluvian era. According to Miriam's teachings, the Unity crew are all members of the elect, conditional upon their acceptance of her teachings before the Apocalypse. The Conclave's affinity is Purity: it is violently opposed to any practice that alters the human body and mind. Miriam tends to operate a planned or full command economy based on the primitive societies described in Scripture. A major faction.

The New State - A faction combining elements of hierarchy and traditionalism in an essentially medieval timocracy. In plan English, the New State is a fascist oligarchy that has implemented a rigid caste system spanning four Estates: drones, colonists, knights, and Talents. Each estate is apportioned certain privileges and corresponding obligations. Thus, for example, talents are exempt from conscription while drones and colonists have the greatest amount of unstructured leisure time and the fewest stipulations regarding their rights to procreate. The Estado Novo's appeal arises from its guarantee of material security in exchange for obedience. They believe that Earth was destroyed because the traditional relationships between socio-economic classes were allowed to come apart. A major faction.

The New Two Thousand - A faction based on a private charter colony. Led by an entreprenuer and private citizen, Oscar Van de Graaf. This faction is basically an experiment in civic planning. A minor faction. They are at odds with the other factions, inasmuch as they were under obligation to contribute to the main colony for a number of years before striking out on their own. Because much of the equipment earmarked for them was appropriated by other at Planetfall, they believe they have scores to settle. Van de Graaf was also CEO of the American Reclamation Corporation, a federal instrumentality chartered to lead reconstruction after The Anarchy.

Those Beneath - The ocean-going faction, led by a French Contre-Amiralé, Raoul André St. Germaine. They believe that salvation lies in Chiron's hitherto unexplored depths. A minor faction.

The Tribe - Adherents of the American cult figure Jean-Baptiste Keller. The Tribe is an experiment in rebuilding societies based primarily on bonds of blood and proximity rather than shared values per-se. This is the direct answer to an atomizing world in which civic engagement is almost nil and people have increasingly withdrawn from immediate, face-to-face relationships. The Tribe fought both the U.S. Government and the Holnists at various points in its century-long history. A major faction.

The University of Planet - Ethically-challenged scientists led by Soviet engineer Academician Prokhor Saratov. In their considered opinion, archaic superstition, masquerading as deferrence to ethical imperatives, prevented the human race from applying all of the problem-solving tools at its disposal. A major faction. All about the pursuit of knowledge at any cost.
Title: Re: Seeking Development Team and Players
Post by: Trenacker on August 21, 2016, 04:21:20 PM
Each faction will have 3 unique abilities/characteristics that will help shape its play style. For example, the Hunters gain a bonus to combat with native lifeforms, reflecting the experiences gained on survey and road crews immediately after the Chiron Intersteller Probe made Planetfall.

As one might expect, each faction leader focused on recruiting specific members of their respective expeditions, either focusing on the personnel already in their chains of command, or else targeting those who might be expected to sympathize with a certain ideology based on their function.

The Dreamers are basically a pair of exploitative, narcissistic geniuses. Cobb is a former intelligence agent while Cohen is a mad scientist type. She differs from Pahlavi in that she focuses on neuro-science applications. While she shares disdain for ethical boundaries with Zakharov, she is far less philosophical about it. Her attitude reflects mere impatience rather than a deeply-held belief that people with objections to progress are objectively wrong. The Dreamers are a motley combination of the small coterie of retainers that joined Cobb under charter, Cohen's immediate staff (a collection of hand-picked medical personnel whose moral flexibility outpaces their technical expertise), and various convicts and robots "liberated" from the collapsing CIP colony to actually perform the work of colonization (as slaves) while their masters abuse chemicals.

The Gaians took most of the biologists, horticulturalists, and foresters on the expedition.

The Holnists seeded their people across the mission's security and emergency management functions. The more ideologically-inclined later broke away to form the Spartan Federation, which is measurably less psychotic. Later, the Holnists picked up those road crews and long-range patrols that had formerly served Marsh but had basically devolved into brigandage.

The Honored Dead comprise a hard core of military men under the CIP. They unsuccessfully resisted the mutiny against CIP mission leadership, then did their best to stand up against the Holnists and other adversaries. They suffer from a kind of mass psychosis. A general defeatism, if you will. This faction needs more work.

The Labrynth undoubtedly had his own plants in the Unity's security force, but also probably claimed a lot of the more idealistic personnel -- people who were prone to being led astray by Yang's message of collectivism and shared struggle in the cause of the greater good. Like the Dreamers during the downfall of the CIP, Yang would also have thought to raid the Unity's population of prisoners for "reserve labor."

The Hunters are basically all of the people who had functions that took them outside the CIP colony on a regular basis, especially the security patrols who first encountered Mind Worms, road crews conducting initial surveys or clear-cutting fungus for agriculture, and wilderness firefighters who tried to do controlled burns and participated in mobile firefighting. Probably there were also many emergency management personnel who sympathized with Marsh's outlook, most of whom would have lost their lives during the plague as they attempted to tend the sick. I figure that a small core of military would also have signed on.

The Ascendancy is basically the scientists of the genetics lab, with a smattering of Darwinists who happened to be exposed to Pahlavi's rhetoric before the CIP went the way of the dodo. Possibly the Unity carried a population of Augment-types during the second wave of colonization. If so, this group would naturally have made it to Pahlavi's base.

The Conclave accounts for crew members driven primarily by their faith.

The New State likely took much of the surviving command staff, religious types put out by the Conclave's teachings, military who didn't want to break the chain of command, and anybody who was especially well-disposed to hierarchical leadership, especially crew members who were looking only for a guarantee of protection. One of the few factions willing to accept the family members of mission specialists (i.e., people with no special skills to contribute).

The New Two Thousand, being a large charter enterprise, would probably have a very good balance of different skill types among its adherents. That will probably leave them with a good bonus in gameplay terms. Their leader, Van de Graaf, would have paid for the best in a wide range of fields, and could expect loyalty from people who have every intention of returning to Earth one day.

Those Beneath swallowed virtually the whole of the CIP's naval contingent. This is a very martial faction in its organization and outlook.

The Tribe, like the Holnists, are stowaways. They may also have absorbed the sub-set of crew members with families on account of their willingness to take on supernumerary persons as a sop to their social agenda.

The University of Planet likely appealed most to scholars and engineers.

A new faction, The Archimedes Group, is all about central planning, and accounts for engineers who wouldn't much like Zakharov's research focus. This faction would also have taken on the various mission planners -- in other words, those who believe in technocracy.
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