Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => The Theory of Everything => Topic started by: Mart on March 16, 2015, 02:00:57 PM

Title: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Mart on March 16, 2015, 02:00:57 PM
In short:
the faction you simply dislike the most,
maybe you just never play them,
maybe you also never pact with them,
maybe you always attack them,
maybe you attack them at the first sight, even if your chances are 10000-fold against you,
you wonder, what the game creators had in mind creating this faction,
...
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Geo on March 16, 2015, 03:04:44 PM
The Lord's Believers. But the Hive is on a pretty close, if not the same, rang of the ladder.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Yitzi on March 17, 2015, 02:56:41 AM
From an ideological perspective,  ;yang;, which is how I voted.

From a gameplay perspective, none really.  Each is fun to play, in their own way.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: gwillybj on March 17, 2015, 01:02:26 PM
The Gaians. They are snobs.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Yitzi on March 17, 2015, 05:06:13 PM
The Gaians. They are snobs.

Aren't they all snobs?
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Geo on March 17, 2015, 06:01:12 PM
The Gaians. They are snobs.

Aren't they all snobs?

Good question.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: PvtHudson on March 18, 2015, 11:00:50 AM
Peacekeepers for their unrivalled hypocrisy. And also for their preferred research path being so close to mine, that they often grab Fusion Power first and steal The Hunter-Seeker Algorithm from my cyborgs.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: gwillybj on March 18, 2015, 12:48:22 PM
The Gaians. They are snobs.

Aren't they all snobs?

Good question.
Yes, but I think the Gaians get to have it printed on their T-shirts.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Yitzi on March 18, 2015, 01:44:42 PM
The Gaians. They are snobs.

Aren't they all snobs?

Good question.
Yes, but I think the Gaians get to have it printed on their T-shirts.

I don't really see it...the Gaians aren't criticized for setting themselves up as the only "legitimate" authority, whereas the Peacekeepers are.

Let's also see what each faction says when you first run a social engineering system they don't like (before it reaches vendetta or breaking pact), or the one they do:

 ;deidre;:

"Your exploitation of Planet's delicate environment is entirely
unacceptable, $TITLE0 $NAME1. Any market economy must be carefully
controlled to prevent permanent damage to the local ecology. I implore
you to desist from your free market stance at once."

"$TITLE0 $NAME1, your Planned economics are wasteful. More to the
point, your ballooning population and inefficient, polluting industry
will soon cause permanent damage to Planet's fragile environment.
I am sure your concerns are humanitarian in nature, but in the long
run your people will benefit from a carefully regulated Green economy."

"$TITLE0 $NAME1, your respect for Planet's fragile ecosystems
is much appreciated. I can only hope that others will follow
your excellent example."

 ;yang;:

"$TITLE0 $NAME1, you must surely realize that Democracy is a menace
to right-thinking people everywhere. Common citizens cannot be
allowed to question the decisions of their rulers! I urge you
to impose strict police control at once!"

"Have you no intellectual integrity whatsoever, $TITLE0 $NAME1?
It pains me to see an educated person pointlessly cripple
$<1:himself:herself::> with the pathetic fantasy of a creator
and afterlife. Will you not put aside medieval mythology and
join the rest of us in the third millennium?"

"You are most wise, $TITLE0 $NAME1, to keep your subjects under
tight control. The common man cannot be trusted to manage his own
affairs--democracy is the first cousin of anarchy."

 ;zak;:

"$TITLE0 $NAME1, your so-called faction is little more than
a summer camp for extremists and malcontents. Be warned that
I have heard your rantings about 'power' and I shall not stand
idly by while you build a private army to conquer this planet."

"$TITLE0 $NAME1, your open and shameless pursuit of 'wealth' is
offensive to thinkers such as myself. Perhaps you would be wise
to better conceal your greed."

"$TITLE0 $NAME1, your research facilities are the envy of the Planet,
and none can surpass the expertise of your scientists. I warmly commend
you for tireless pursuit of knowledge."

 ;morgan;:

"Your Planned economy is wrongheaded and inefficient,
$TITLE0 $NAME1, and stifles the just and proper flow of capital on this
planet. I hope you will soon open your markets to a more realistic
model."

"$TITLE0 $NAME1, your impractical Green economics are causing
irreparable harm to legitimate business interests. I can
only hope you will not completely wreck our economy with this
nonsense."

"The health and vitality of your free market economy is to be admired,
my good $TITLE0. My congratulations."

 ;santi;:

"What evils are you cooking up under the guise of 'research' and
'knowledge', $TITLE0 $NAME1? You may be fooling the others, but I
know you are up to no good."

"$TITLE0 $NAME1, your shameless pursuit of 'wealth' is shocking.
Pray do not grow too fat and weak, lest someone decide to
carve you up."

"I am pleased that you understand the brutal realities of life
on this planet, $TITLE0 $NAME1. Military power is key, for only
the strong shall survive here."

 ;miriam;:

"Your police state is godless and wretched, $TITLE0 $NAME1, and your
brutal crimes cry out to God for punishment. I pray that you will
find the Lord's salvation while your soul can yet be saved."

"$TITLE0 $NAME1, your so-called 'Democracy' is godless and
wretched. True freedom and happiness are only to be found in
God's love, and I urge you to repent your sins and open your
heart to the Lord."

"It is a joy to commune with a fellow believer, $TITLE0 $NAME1. I
trust your conscience rests easy in the hands of the good Lord."

 ;lal;:

"You may speak of order and security, $TITLE0 $NAME1, but your
Police State is nothing more than a brutal dictatorship, and a
slap in the face to all who truly value human life."

"$TITLE0 $NAME1, it pains me to see you supporting fundamentalist
zealotry at the expense of intellectual progress, human dignity,
and virtually any other worthwhile value. Let remind you that we
are living in the third millennium, and urge you to put your religion
aside as the relic that it is."

"You are a wise and benevolent leader, $TITLE0 $NAME1, to have
perceived the lasting benefits of a free society even in these
difficult times. My hat is off to you."

From those, the Gaians seem to be the least snobbish.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Soyweiser on March 18, 2015, 08:37:02 PM
I find the ;santi; to be the most annoying. Others have various reasons for their actions. Santi is just a bully. The right to defend pretty quickly turns to might makes right.

But I'm also not a fan of  ;miriam;. Personal bias against religious fundamentalists.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: vonbach on March 29, 2015, 03:17:34 PM
Easily the Peacekeeping forces. Yang is at least honest. To be blunt i'm not a fan of any of them. Yang is a monster, Deidre is a pagan throwing her lot in with her new god at the cost of her own people. Morgan is money grubbing capitalist of the worst sort. Zararov is a mad scientist and Santiago is still a gang leader its just that now she has a army behind her. None of them seem in any way moral. Frankly the longer you play the game the more right  and balanced Miriam seems.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Mart on March 29, 2015, 03:49:49 PM
It looks like it was game creators intention to make factions with ideologies taken towards extreme.
They are fleshed out and therefore memorable. Something, that, gives more distinction to factions when compared even to civs in Civ4, at least for me.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Chilldude on March 31, 2015, 11:26:51 AM
I find ;miriam; to be offensive to the point where I attack on sight. This might have something to do with personal bias, but from a gameplay perspective the crippled research is just painful. I'm looking at you too ;domai;



And now for some half-role-played rant:
I must take the opportunity to defend my main man ;yang;
Poor misunderstood Yang only wants to take humanity to new heights. Together enough humans with the right know how have limitless potential! Alone I am a man; Together we are GOD! Why worship vengeful father figures from the past or unseen spirits when the power to move mountains, rain fire from the skies, travel the heavens and even defy the laws of that supposed father are all within reach of a humanity given purpose and focus through the loss of self. (except for the upper classes of course! Somebody has to think for humanity)

*End - morally reprehensible statement*
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Dio on March 31, 2015, 10:25:03 PM
An analysis of the factions from a idealogical point of view might reveal some interesting insights.

1. Gaians:
Claim: They claim that protecting, preserving and knowing planet is ultimate good for human race. Faction penalities claim to state they are pacifists and freedom loving. The faction also contains underlying religious aspects.

Interpertation: They often use mind worms as weapons to further cause, as seen in the quotes for "Our Secret War." The quote for The Telepathic Matrix also reveals hints at its potential abuse as a form of ultimate police control, and the fact they can run Police State with few penalities tends to contradict the factions claim of "freedom loving."

2. Morganites:
Claims:
They first claim the building up of a economic and industrial corporation on planet. They also claim to lead in the researching, making, selling, and distribution of quality goods and other products.

Interpertation:
Really they simply try to seize the financial and material assets of others related to production and place it in a large company. They also desire to rule the planet through the buying out and intergration of all players in their new financial system. Therefore, they use potentially abusive and unethical corporate business practices disguised behind the claim of free market captialism.

3. Peacekeepers:
Claims:
They claim to espouse democracy, humantarian ideals, and the desire to reunite all factions under a single group. They make references to the enviroment, social conditions, and human rights. They also have hints of religion, especially in regards to the quote from Stockpile Energy (unused in normal games) and the use of Brother as their faction leader's title during diplomacy.

Interpertation:
First they use diplomatic coercion to attempt and reunite people that agreed upon seperating from each other. This sounds very unhumantarian and unethical. Second, where do they get the extra votes from the population? Perhaps the elite in the faction force undereducated immigrants to vote in a specific manner while providing social services like housing, jobs and food. Again, the additional votes sound very dubious at best.

4. The Lord's Believer's:
Claims/Features:
They first claim to act as a religious instiution that provides hope and moral guidance on a planet that they see as desperately needing it. They also claim that the technological progession of the other factions involve using inhumane and unethical practices. Finally, they have the most overtly religiously theme.

Interpertation:
They believe they in the neccesity of christanizing all the other factions in order to "civilize" these brutes and stop the technological advances they perceive as unethical. The faction might also have aspects of a terroist organization because the improved morale of probe teams implys secret training of subversive agents. In addition, their use of the term "Conclave Oral Law" indicates secret groups inside the faction that conduct activities without the use of written or mechanical aid. In other words, they use any means they deem neccessary, even if unethical, to recruit or disrupt those who take actions they consider wrong.

5. University of Planet:
Claims: It appears they have the greatest hand in scientific technological progession on the planet. They also appear to simply watch the unfolding of events on the planet until such time that the Gaians start interfering with their experiments. They also claim the pursuit of "unfettered research" as their highest goal.

Interpertation: They frequently use unethical scientific practices to achieve goals. It also appears they eventually start describing science and technology with an almost fanatical tone. Also they proceed with technological applications regardless of the consequences to society. They also monopolize the education system on planet and act aloof until people start interfering with their plans.

6. Spartan Federation:
They have been pretty well analyzed except for the fact they were, for unspecified reasons in game, intentionally murdered by the Gaians.

7. The Hive:
They have been pretty well described except that the faction's idealogical basis bears a striking resemblance to the underground group seen in Frank Herbert's Hellstrom's Hive. In addition, the rapid population growth of the faction might occur as a result of Yang's controlled and deliberate genetic modification of the population.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Yitzi on April 01, 2015, 12:48:28 AM
An analysis of the factions from a idealogical point of view might reveal some interesting insights.

1. Gaians:
Claim: They claim that protecting, preserving and knowing planet is ultimate good for human race. Faction penalities claim to state they are pacifists and freedom loving. The faction also contains underlying religious aspects.

Interpertation: They often use mind worms as weapons to further cause, as seen in the quotes for "Our Secret War." The quote for The Telepathic Matrix also reveals hints at its potential abuse as a form of ultimate police control, and the fact they can run Police State with few penalities tends to contradict the factions claim of "freedom loving."

While they can run Police State with fewer penalties than most, they also get less benefit than most, due to it only letting them use 1 extra police unit instead of 2.  (They also gain the ability to nerve staple, but that has its own costs.)  Their emphasis on native life also makes the SUPPORT bonus substantially less appealing.


Quote
In addition, their use of the term "Conclave Oral Law" indicates secret groups inside the faction that conduct activities without the use of written or mechanical aid.

Perhaps not; "Conclave" was the original name of the faction, and stayed in places in the fluff.  And "Oral Law" is a concept going back to Judaism, essentially meaning the unwritten (and thus orally transmitted) tradition interpreting and providing details to the written statutes.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Earthmichael on April 02, 2015, 12:31:19 AM
The Lord's Believers is the weakest faction by far with a game against another player.  It is still winnable against the computer, but why bother after you have won once with the Believers just to prove to yourself it is possible.  Cult of Planet is the only faction in the same ballpark of weakness, and it is still playable with the right partnership.  No partnership can strengthen the Believers.

All of the other factions are playable, particularly with the right combinations of partnerships.  Although Hive is weak by themselves due to the research penalty, a team game with University is a very powerful combination.  And there are plenty of other similarly powerful partnerships.  That's why one of my favorite ways to play is my 2 faction partnership against my opponent human's 2 faction partnership.  But leave Believer's and Cult out of the mix unless you are trying to handicap yourself.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Yitzi on April 02, 2015, 02:36:57 AM
The Lord's Believers is the weakest faction by far with a game against another player.

I would think that in a 1v1 with reasonably close starting positions they'd be fairly strong, due to having both large armies (thanks to the SUPPORT bonus) and an attack bonus.

Quote
No partnership can strengthen the Believers.

Not even Morgan or Zak who's willing to give tech in exchange for protection?

Obviously, a Believers builder game is going to be difficult, but it seems they'd be good at momentum play...
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Chilldude on April 02, 2015, 07:32:09 PM
Although Hive is weak by themselves due to the research penalty, a team game with University is a very powerful combination.

 ??? Is there a research penalty for the Hive? Or are you referring to the economy penalty as being a research penalty due to the decreased energy available for allocation?
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Yitzi on April 03, 2015, 11:19:00 AM
Although Hive is weak by themselves due to the research penalty, a team game with University is a very powerful combination.

 ??? Is there a research penalty for the Hive? Or are you referring to the economy penalty as being a research penalty due to the decreased energy available for allocation?

Probably a combination of the economy penalty and the tendency to run 0 EFFIC.  They have no actual RESEARCH penalty.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Soyweiser on April 03, 2015, 04:55:03 PM
Poor misunderstood Yang only wants to take humanity to new heights. Together enough humans with the right know how have limitless potential! Alone I am a man; Together we are GOD! Why worship vengeful father figures from the past or unseen spirits when the power to move mountains, rain fire from the skies, travel the heavens and even defy the laws of that supposed father are all within reach of a humanity given purpose and focus through the loss of self. (except for the upper classes of course! Somebody has to think for humanity)

Giving up your individuality does not mean you cannot think. Is it ever implied Yang would not undergo the same procedures?
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Chilldude on April 04, 2015, 11:49:29 PM
Giving up your individuality does not mean you cannot think. Is it ever implied Yang would not undergo the same procedures?

To be honest I have no idea. For some reason I have always had the impression that the complete loss of self to the whole by his citizens was an end goal of Yang's. Yang would of course ensure his own freedom of action and thought or at the very least that his was the mind in control of any total hivemind. I can't recall if either case is supported anywhere, but I will keep an eye out.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Dio on April 07, 2015, 04:07:08 PM
I am uncertain as to exactly what Yang's end goal for the faction was beyond advocating extreme self-deprivation, and performing genetic experimentation to make his citizens better acclimated to their roles.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Chilldude on April 08, 2015, 07:46:05 AM
One last Hive-ish thought.

While casually looking for an answer to whether Yang would himself undergo the modifications devised for the Hive citizens, I found a quote that I'm sure we've all heard a thousand times but that I read in a new light:

"Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment."

While still very open to interpretation this to me implies an loss of material and spiritual self.  The loss of greed, jealousy, fanaticism, corruption and any other human concept that values the gain of one over the many. The very first sentence in this quote however exemplifies the dastardly way Yang sought to reach what otherwise might have been a noble goal. Shame on him.

I am uncertain as to exactly what Yang's end goal for the faction was beyond advocating extreme self-deprivation, and performing genetic experimentation to make his citizens better acclimated to their roles.
While I can think of a few reasons why, from our current societies point of view, what you said is exactly true; to me deprivation implies an unavailable necessity though. You don't need a car if society is designed for you to have available transit when required. You don't need money or status symbols if all goods are free. The loss of self is not the same as depriving oneself. I know there has been no successful example of such a society on our little rock but thats part of what makes the concept so intriguing!

But I digress, there I'm done. No more madness on the subject from me  :stop:
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Nexii on April 26, 2015, 05:51:05 PM
Yes agree with EM, Believers are the weakest by far.  It's mainly from their 10 turns of no research.  This puts them 2 techs behind which is much more detrimental since Impact/Plasma/Rover are so important for early aggression.  Even the pacifist factions can run over them 1 on 1 in the early game.  I mod flat unit costs and while this makes FANATIC into a relevant bonus, it also hurts them since it's harder for them to get better weapon and armor techs.  So what then is the best fix thematically for Believers?  PROBE/SUPPORT just aren't as important early as RESEARCH.  I had thought FANATIC working against alien life might boost them a decent amount.  I thought about other options like free Recreation Commons (as worship is important to them) or one more starter tech (Applied Physics or Planetary Networks?).
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Yitzi on April 26, 2015, 08:08:55 PM
Yes agree with EM, Believers are the weakest by far.  It's mainly from their 10 turns of no research.  This puts them 2 techs behind which is much more detrimental since Impact/Plasma/Rover are so important for early aggression.  Even the pacifist factions can run over them 1 on 1 in the early game.  I mod flat unit costs and while this makes FANATIC into a relevant bonus, it also hurts them since it's harder for them to get better weapon and armor techs.  So what then is the best fix thematically for Believers?  PROBE/SUPPORT just aren't as important early as RESEARCH.  I had thought FANATIC working against alien life might boost them a decent amount.  I thought about other options like free Recreation Commons (as worship is important to them) or one more starter tech (Applied Physics or Planetary Networks?).

The other possible fix would be that I could almost certainly make the "turns of no research at -RESEARCH or lowest difficulty" be moddable...
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Nexii on April 26, 2015, 10:12:03 PM
Yea, making the no research turns penalty separate from -RESEARCH would work too - assuming you mean removing just the 10 turns of no research from Believers.  I think the Believers are actually fine middle and late game.  But getting there is very difficult.  Bad early game usually means weak all game due to exponential growth rates.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Mart on April 26, 2015, 10:22:35 PM
...  Bad early game usually means weak all game due to exponential growth rates.
Exponential growth rates could be "modded out"
They break late game, as it is not so fun (micro)managing it, I think.
I have impression, they were in such a hurry when making the game, they did not balance late game.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Nexii on April 26, 2015, 10:33:07 PM
A lot of things aren't balanced in the unmodded game, but would agree generally.  The AI doesn't play well in the late game.

What parts of the game are tedious to micromanage?
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Yitzi on April 27, 2015, 02:22:48 AM
Yea, making the no research turns penalty separate from -RESEARCH would work too - assuming you mean removing just the 10 turns of no research from Believers.

Making it separate would be harder.  I was thinking just allow it to be changed whether it's 10 turns or 5 turns or 2 turns or 0 turns...or 20 or 50 turns, for that matter.

...  Bad early game usually means weak all game due to exponential growth rates.
Exponential growth rates could be "modded out"
They break late game, as it is not so fun (micro)managing it, I think.
I have impression, they were in such a hurry when making the game, they did not balance late game.

Modding out exponential growth would be fairly difficult, though (although I think it's only exponential in the early game, and then slows down to quartic, cubic, or even quadratic.)

A lot of things aren't balanced in the unmodded game, but would agree generally.  The AI doesn't play well in the late game.

What parts of the game are tedious to micromanage?

I hear terraforming is a pain with the high number of formers, but I actually came up with an interesting idea to deal with that (as well as other former-related issues): Rather than have formers be able to terraform for free, have terraforming substantially (depending on the type of terraforming) increase the support of the formers doing it, with the extra support working like convoyed-away resources (so it's the first to be ditched if there's not enough and won't cause disbanding, but can't be removed via SUPPORT rating or clean).  Then Super Formers and Weather Paradigm could decrease this extra cost instead of time taken (perhaps -1 for weather paradigm, and halved for super formers), and terraforming time decreased accordingly.  Less terraforming time, but more support cost, means fewer formers, means less micromanagement.  (It also makes it easier to mod for balance.)
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Nexii on April 29, 2015, 05:49:29 PM
Yea, making the 5 turns of no research per -RESEARCH into a moddable variable would work.  If Believers didn't have this penalty then they'd be more competitive.

Far as growth, exponential probably wasn't the right word.  Growth does need to be quadratic or so.  Changing that would disrupt the whole game as there should always be that economic vs military tradeoff in all stages.  If growth is more linear then the game stagnates and becomes a lot more focused on war than building up.  Similarly if growth rate is too high then war is never worth the risk.  I'd actually say there isn't much issue here.  It's more that quadratic growth means a quadratic increase in former count, because terraforming your land is the main growth bottleneck (the other being infrastructure/drone control).  I think that there should have been more than just one former upgrade (Super) throughout the game, and perhaps a better way to queue up former commands.  But those would be big changes.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Yitzi on April 29, 2015, 06:34:20 PM
Yea, making the 5 turns of no research per -RESEARCH into a moddable variable would work.  If Believers didn't have this penalty then they'd be more competitive.

Is it 5 per point, or 10 flat?

Quote
Far as growth, exponential probably wasn't the right word.  Growth does need to be quadratic or so.  Changing that would disrupt the whole game as there should always be that economic vs military tradeoff in all stages.  If growth is more linear then the game stagnates and becomes a lot more focused on war than building up.  Similarly if growth rate is too high then war is never worth the risk.  I'd actually say there isn't much issue here.  It's more that quadratic growth means a quadratic increase in former count, because terraforming your land is the main growth bottleneck (the other being infrastructure/drone control).  I think that there should have been more than just one former upgrade (Super) throughout the game, and perhaps a better way to queue up former commands.  But those would be big changes.

Actually, quadratic growth means linear growth in former count, since linear growth in former count translates to quadratic growth in terraforming.
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Nexii on April 29, 2015, 08:09:00 PM
It's 5 per point which is actually better

Yea, I do get what you're saying.  Roughly speaking I think population growth is between linear and quadratic (but can be expressed as quadratic equation).  There's then other rates like FOP/sq, facility increases, then a few other tech-related boosts like weapon/armor/reactor, SEs, and SPs.  Multiplying those benefits from tech & infra with population growthrate, I think you get a total faction power rate that increases faster than quadratic and a bit slower than cubic.  But this is all quite theoretical.  How many formers are typical for a player at each stage?  1-5 early, maybe 20 or so mid, 100+ late.  Same issue arises with military units.  I think it's more a mid to late game costing issue.  Later on there should be more costly formers and military units that are accordingly more powerful so you don't need huge swarms.  Same with native life and probes, I suppose.  Reactors probably should have been quadratic (10 HP / 40 HP / 90 HP / 160 HP) with cost increases linear (1x/2x/3x/4x)
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: Yitzi on April 29, 2015, 10:12:36 PM
It's 5 per point which is actually better

Yea, I do get what you're saying.  Roughly speaking I think population growth is between linear and quadratic (but can be expressed as quadratic equation).  There's then other rates like FOP/sq, facility increases, then a few other tech-related boosts like weapon/armor/reactor, SEs, and SPs.  Multiplying those benefits from tech & infra with population growthrate, I think you get a total faction power rate that increases faster than quadratic and a bit slower than cubic.  But this is all quite theoretical.  How many formers are typical for a player at each stage?  1-5 early, maybe 20 or so mid, 100+ late.  Same issue arises with military units.  I think it's more a mid to late game costing issue.  Later on there should be more costly formers and military units that are accordingly more powerful so you don't need huge swarms.  Same with native life and probes, I suppose.  Reactors probably should have been quadratic (10 HP / 40 HP / 90 HP / 160 HP) with cost increases linear (1x/2x/3x/4x)

More costly+powerful military units can currently be done, by playing with weapon and armor powers and cost formulae.  Formers are trickier, but I think having a variable support cost will allow them to have an effective cost increase as time goes on in exchange for more power...
Title: Re: Faction (from original 7) that you DISLIKE the most
Post by: binTravkin on April 30, 2015, 07:50:27 AM
Some food for thought:
Quote
First improvements, first buildings, boreholes, crawlers, wonders, lifted resource limits - all of it felt like such an important step in your growth. When i play modern games like Civ 5 or especially something like EU4, i really miss that feeling. You do a lot of different things, and they account for like 5% growth. Why even bother? In SMAC you were doubling your entire economy in 20 turns i think? Or maybe even faster.

From a thread about CivBE on apolyton: http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/205731-So-anyone-else-happy-SMAC2-is-finally-being-made?p=6317626&viewfull=1#post6317626 (http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/205731-So-anyone-else-happy-SMAC2-is-finally-being-made?p=6317626&viewfull=1#post6317626)
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