In a game like SMAC, canon is inevitably a fuzzy concept. After all, canon as indicated by the quotes strongly suggests that the Spartans were wiped out by the Gaians, but you can play a game where that doesn't happen.
That's a different thing than I was talking about - obviously you can't take plot from the interactive part of an interactive medium.
But what's in the datalinks, the leader quotes, the movies -anything that's already in place at the beginning of the game and not generated by variable gameplay- is fact in the game's universe, not to be contradicted by anything from my fanfic to Michael Ely's officially-sanctioned professional novels. What's in the game is cannon over all else.
[blinks]
No, I meant honkin' big artillery guns.
I don't make mistakes. ;nod
It's probably a good idea, when you find post of mine is confusing, to ask yourself if BU just made another bomb of a joke.[blinks]
No, I meant honkin' big artillery guns.
I don't make mistakes. ;nod
Ok...in that case I just don't understand your statement. Are formers and probe teams truly big artillery guns?
It's probably a good idea, when you find post of mine is confusing, to ask yourself if BU just made another bomb of a joke.
[blinks]
No, I meant honkin' big artillery guns.
I don't make mistakes. ;nod
@BUncle ah ok. In that case i agree.They are okay. They end up in a very dark place:
I wonder how the novels are. I havent read them
@BUncle ah ok. In that case i agree.They are okay. They end up in a very dark place:
I wonder how the novels are. I havent read them(click to show/hide)
Ok i'll just ignore all that
I refuse to believe an ending where Miriam wins, becausr mass suicide throug a psi gate is cooler :p i wish i could read them nonethelesz
Ok i'll just ignore all that
I refuse to believe an ending where Miriam wins, becausr mass suicide throug a psi gate is cooler :p i wish i could read them nonethelesz
I don't see either as happening; I think of ;miriam; as being an ever-more-ignored voice as time progresses, but never quite disappearing and eventually making a minor contribution to the Planetmind as well as contributing a substantial number of those who keep their human forms after Transcendence.
Ok i'll just ignore all that
I refuse to believe an ending where Miriam wins, becausr mass suicide throug a psi gate is cooler :p i wish i could read them nonethelesz
I don't see either as happening; I think of ;miriam; as being an ever-more-ignored voice as time progresses, but never quite disappearing and eventually making a minor contribution to the Planetmind as well as contributing a substantial number of those who keep their human forms after Transcendence.
I don't think the tech quotes even really say who it is she is sending through. Or even whether the other end is just a null. We can spin it into meaning anything, which is why those two quotes, which most players will rarely hear, are so terrifying. She could also be brainwashing other faction's citizens by presenting it as a miracle to a promised land.
I've always found the dichotomy between the thoughtful science ethicist Miriam in the tech quotes & project movies, and the petulantly hostile Miriam of faction diplomacy interesting. That's probably just poor creative coordination, but in-universe, it hints at a complex personality...
Well the work which Psi Gate quotes is called Last Testament. Add to that "walking to the garden of God" and "casting off sin" sugests that whatever it happened, it was definitive.Ok i'll just ignore all that
I refuse to believe an ending where Miriam wins, becausr mass suicide throug a psi gate is cooler :p i wish i could read them nonethelesz
I don't see either as happening; I think of ;miriam; as being an ever-more-ignored voice as time progresses, but never quite disappearing and eventually making a minor contribution to the Planetmind as well as contributing a substantial number of those who keep their human forms after Transcendence.
Her planet penalty never really made much sense to me from a flavor perspective. What would make her faction more disruptive of planet's ecosystems than, for example, Morgan Industries or The Spartan Federation? Also, I do not think that the SMAX factions backstories should be mixed with the original seven factions backstories since the game was orignally developed with only the original seven factions in mind.Well the work which Psi Gate quotes is called Last Testament. Add to that "walking to the garden of God" and "casting off sin" sugests that whatever it happened, it was definitive.Ok i'll just ignore all that
I refuse to believe an ending where Miriam wins, becausr mass suicide throug a psi gate is cooler :p i wish i could read them nonethelesz
I don't see either as happening; I think of ;miriam; as being an ever-more-ignored voice as time progresses, but never quite disappearing and eventually making a minor contribution to the Planetmind as well as contributing a substantial number of those who keep their human forms after Transcendence.
Her lack of concern for planet (Promised Land) and her Christianity probably clashing with the Cult of Planet that arose late game leads me to think she isnt one for transcendence. And the "with luck we shall meet on the other side" suggest death in my opinion. I can almost picture her in a podium in New Jerusalen, beseeching her flock to go through and them going unknowingly and bindly to it. She seems like the kind who would find transcendece sacrilegy and would get a shitton of people killed to "save their souls"
Well the work which Psi Gate quotes is called Last Testament.Ok i'll just ignore all that
I refuse to believe an ending where Miriam wins, becausr mass suicide throug a psi gate is cooler :p i wish i could read them nonethelesz
I don't see either as happening; I think of ;miriam; as being an ever-more-ignored voice as time progresses, but never quite disappearing and eventually making a minor contribution to the Planetmind as well as contributing a substantial number of those who keep their human forms after Transcendence.
Add to that "walking to the garden of God" and "casting off sin" sugests that whatever it happened, it was definitive.
Her lack of concern for planet (Promised Land) and her Christianity probably clashing with the Cult of Planet that arose late game leads me to think she isnt one for transcendence. And the "with luck we shall meet on the other side" suggest death in my opinion. I can almost picture her in a podium in New Jerusalen, beseeching her flock to go through and them going unknowingly and bindly to it. She seems like the kind who would find transcendece sacrilegy and would get a shitton of people killed to "save their souls"
Yeah, before she abdicated.
True, and Transcendence is definitely definitive.
Except:
1. That doesn't fit with the "age of miracles" part of the quote.
2. After Transcendence, Planet (for those who didn't join the Planetmind) is very much a Promised Land and a return to Eden (just read the epilogue), fitting very nicely with the language in that quote.
3. None of the main faction leaders like the Cult of Planet, and I suspect it fizzled out once the Voice of Planet was operational.
Yeah, before she abdicated.
True, and Transcendence is definitely definitive.
Except:
1. That doesn't fit with the "age of miracles" part of the quote.
2. After Transcendence, Planet (for those who didn't join the Planetmind) is very much a Promised Land and a return to Eden (just read the epilogue), fitting very nicely with the language in that quote.
3. None of the main faction leaders like the Cult of Planet, and I suspect it fizzled out once the Voice of Planet was operational.
1- I think the only leader hinted to have abdicated is Morgan, since while Morgan industries keeps showing up, Nwabudlike doesnt.
2-It is, but like i said before, she doesnt appear to me like the kind that would accept it (once again, her intolerance and her lack of concern for planet)
3- I feel like going to Heaven does fit the bill though (and to go there being dead is kinda a requirement) and I feel like that line is about that (You really cant cast off sin until you are dead)
4-It does. And it equally fits what i said too :s
5- Im not talking about the faction, I'm talking about the literal cult, like the worshipping. In late game, you can Temples of Planet and according to the gurps book worshipping Planet became a religion (a very pagan style one). I feel like that just the existance of any religion more popular than Christianism would be enough to make her shut down to any further reasoning, much more one that sees her "Promised Land" as a God
1- Fair enough
2- The gurps book outright says that despite her symphatic exterior she is profoundly intolerant of other ideologies. The fact that you think she isnt and that she is less fanatical just shiws why was she chosen as Psych Chaplain of the Unity (and from the meta perspective, it shows the skills from the writers)
3- I guess i'll just agree to disagree. Imo it doesnt get any more "miracle-ey" than, well, Heaven. And afaik (im catholic) the only way to stop sining (ie casting sin off) is to die
4- See above. Once again she is just generally smarter than going "GOD WILL SMITE YOU FROM ABOVE" (except in the Theory of Everything iirc quote). This is a smart and complex fictional woman after all. Im sure that the part about her becoming a Messiah for millions of people in the Middle East after going there with the UN is what inspired Kavitha Thakur's creation
5- I'm not talking about the faction. I'm talking about the unoficial religion of planet which develops late game which, well, worships the planet
I really recomend you reading the gurps book. If you can find it and buy it great but if you cant its a google search away from you
1-Well the social process which lead to transcendence is definitely another ideology.
Plus the whole "Human becoming gods thing" which is totally sacrilegious
5- After that it became a buddhist thing where people purged themselves of material possesions and meditated in the wilds and stuff like that. It sounded very Nirvana seeking
6-Sounds like a good plan.
when it all comes down to "i think"s there is really not a lot to say.
I always understood like the Manifold incident was just the latest thing in that war. And truth to be said it makes more sense that way because becoming eternal enemies in just four (light) years...it sounds kinda silly
Ah I misunderstood your post. I still don't see anything in the game that contradicts the gurps guide in the war being older than the failure of tau ceti though.
Ah I misunderstood your post. I still don't see anything in the game that contradicts the gurps guide in the war being older than the failure of tau ceti though.
The fact that both ;caretake; and ;marr; portray their conflict as being a response to Tau Ceti sort of indicates that's how it began. ;caretake; doesn't really seem to be against Transcendence on principle, but rather because of the danger it'll lead to another Tau Ceti.
I wonder how the novels are. I havent read themI'm ordering "Centauri Dawn" of Amazon some time in the near future, so I'll say what I have to say about it in the reading corner.
The fact that both ;caretake; and ;marr; portray their conflict as being a response to Tau Ceti sort of indicates that's how it began. ;caretake; doesn't really seem to be against Transcendence on principle, but rather because of the danger it'll lead to another Tau Ceti.
Well maybe its becausecits because it was the recent event or because they hadnt actually clashes against each other before and they did there.
On top of that the progenitors dont have a lot f quotes anyway so the book is invaluable regarding them.
Transcendence importance comes from the last Tau Ceti thing yes but how would that invalidate a previous war or make it inconsistent?
Anyway, the gurps book is officially supported by firaxis and frankly i find your reasons to doubt its canonicity not only minor but also really relative :s
'Those who wish to live out their lives in their original human form will be allowed
to do so, since statis generators built Planetside and in orbit will preserve genetic
material, plant and animal embryos, cold-sleep humans, and significant areas of Planet's
surface through the metamorphosis.'
##ASCENTNOTYET
##xs 440
##caption Operations Director
#$BASENAME0 is ready to activate the Ascent to Transcendence
#project, but we do not have a sufficient number of Psi Gates
#and Stasis Generators at our bases!'
On a related note, the interludes imply to me as though the secret projects Voice of Planet and The Ascent to Transcendence should be further apart. The number order of the interludes seem to indicate that the blurb from sentient econometrics chronologically should be after the voice of planet secret project. Finally, I noted that they either pretty much took the blurb from sentient econometrics and put it into interlude15 or vice versa.
IIRC, completion of the VoP allows every human faction (and probably the Usurpers as well) start work on the AtT, so it doesn't matter where in the techtree it sits.
IIRC, completion of the VoP allows every human faction (and probably the Usurpers as well) start work on the AtT, so it doesn't matter where in the techtree it sits.
This is true without my patch,...
SMAC RPG-This would be a good way to get people to be more active. (looking at you, BU)
SMAC RPG-This would be a good way to get people to be more active. (looking at you, BU)
I really don't have a solid opinion of Roleplayers, though. So if that isn't the kind of attention we want...