Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Bug/Patch Discussion => Topic started by: Yitzi on November 19, 2014, 08:56:37 PM

Title: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 19, 2014, 08:56:37 PM
I've decided that after the next patch I will start taking requests for some of the things to go into my patch.  I've decided to use the following system:

Each person is allowed to nominate up to two new features and up to two bugfixes.  If a bugfix is really easy and/or I really like the idea, it will automatically make it in, otherwise I will assign to each feature/bugfix a vote multiplier representing how hard it is (the easier it is, the higher the multiplier), and then we'll take a vote via range voting, and whichever feature(s) and bugfix(es) score the highest (vote times multiplier, with number depending on how difficult they are) make it into the next version of the patch.

If you'd rather describe a problem and let me figure out a solution, you can do that instead of both nominated features.

If something requires major internal changes first, I will put those changes up as a voting option instead.

So let's have some nominations...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: ete on November 19, 2014, 09:18:38 PM
My main nomination is faction specific custom units. I'd love to have a way to play around with crazy units in a way that does not mess with the balance of other factions.

My second nomination is the ability to store faction files in /factions/ rather than having them necessarily mixed in with the misc configuration/graphics/stuff files. When you've got a large collection of custom factions (I have about 160) it's hard to keep things organized, and separating things out would help a lot, hopefully encouraging more people to make use of the factionpack. This could be backwards compatible if it looks in /factions/ first, then in the main folder if it does not find the required file in /factions/. This has some added organizational bonuses when it comes to my plans with github, since a separate repository for factions and text files is.. tricky to implement in a not-super ugly way when they're all in one folder. https://github.com/etesp/Alpha-Centauri-Textfiles exists, though it's not ready just yet, partly because of running into this.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 19, 2014, 10:03:48 PM
My main nomination is faction specific custom units. I'd love to have a way to play around with crazy units in a way that does not mess with the balance of other factions.

Putting in a CANBUILDUNIT ability should not be too difficult; it will be obsolete if I do a major tech tree expansion with virtual techs, but that would be much bigger, and I presume you'd like the ability sooner.

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My second nomination is the ability to store faction files in /factions/ rather than having them necessarily mixed in with the misc configuration/graphics/stuff files. When you've got a large collection of custom factions (I have about 160) it's hard to keep things organized, and separating things out would help a lot, hopefully encouraging more people to make use of the factionpack. This could be backwards compatible if it looks in /factions/ first, then in the main folder if it does not find the required file in /factions/.

Unfortunately, that would require learning how it accesses the filesystem.  I'll put down "learn how it accesses the filesystem", but even so that'll be a fairly low multiplier.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: ete on November 19, 2014, 10:25:51 PM
My main nomination is faction specific custom units. I'd love to have a way to play around with crazy units in a way that does not mess with the balance of other factions.

Putting in a CANBUILDUNIT ability should not be too difficult; it will be obsolete if I do a major tech tree expansion with virtual techs, but that would be much bigger, and I presume you'd like the ability sooner.
That would be cool, it would be fun to play with. I don't want to make you duplicate work though, so if it's on your roadmap to do another way I'm okay with you counting my nomination as one for the virtual techs thing.[/quote]

It's on the list, but fairly late as it'd be a lot of work, and most of the work for this would be useful for other stuff as well, I think I'll put it on anyway.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: TarMinyatur on November 20, 2014, 05:42:54 AM
How about a rule in alphax.txt to affect the scrambling of needlejets?

1, 25 ; Scrambling {0 = disable, 1 = enable for units with < x% damage}

It is frustrating when a heavily damaged Needlejet scrambles to intercept enemy bombers with no chance to win.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 20, 2014, 05:46:57 AM
How about a rule in alphax.txt to affect the scrambling of needlejets?

1, 25 ; Scrambling {0 = disable, 1 = enable for units with < x% damage}

It is frustrating when a heavily damaged Needlejet scrambles to intercept enemy bombers with no chance to win.

It would probably make more sense to have it be based on the situation; even if it's heavily damaged, it might be better to lose the needlejet than whatever the unit was originally attacking, and depending on the relative weapon strengths it might have the advantage even with damage.

Perhaps have it scramble if either the unit being attacked costs more than it does, or it has a better than 50% chance of winning?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: ete on November 20, 2014, 04:38:07 PM
I like the idea of only scrambling if better than 50% chance of winning.

Edit: Though not enough for it to replace either of my nominations. It just seems like the best of the proposed solutions to the jets dying uselessly thing, which seems like an issue, but a relatively minor one to me.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Geo on November 20, 2014, 06:31:08 PM
The ability to adjust the type -and output of landmarks in the alphax file.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 20, 2014, 06:35:04 PM
The ability to adjust the type -and output of landmarks in the alphax file.

What do you mean by "type"?  (Adjusting outputs would require some sort of rework to resource output information in order to create room for the landmarks' information; this was actually planned anyway but if voted for would move up.)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Geo on November 20, 2014, 06:37:56 PM
For instance, changing it so that say the Monsoon landmark gives nutrient+energy instead of just nutrients.
Or even changing the output to zero.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 20, 2014, 06:40:37 PM
For instance, changing it so that say the Monsoon landmark gives nutrient+energy instead of just nutrients.
Or even changing the output to zero.

That sort of information needs to be stored somewhere, though, and that means reworking something to make room.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Dio on November 20, 2014, 08:42:48 PM
There are still many bugs and unimplemented features that are present in the original game. This makes the decision for my nominations very difficult. I would definitely need to evalute what features and bugfixes would have the greatest impact with the least amount of work involved.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 21, 2014, 01:27:07 AM
There are still many bugs and unimplemented features that are present in the original game. This makes the decision for my nominations very difficult.

If it were easy to decide, I wouldn't need to take nominations and votes.

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I would definitely need to evalute what features and bugfixes would have the greatest impact with the least amount of work involved.

If you list various ideas, I can tell you what the vote multiplier would be.  Or if other people want to give you their nominations for bugfixes, then you can do that too and we'll use the vote to decide what would have the greatest impact for the least work (which is essentially the idea behind said vote).
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Dio on November 23, 2014, 07:02:14 AM
My list of features and bugfixes in order:
Features:
1. Enableing the various probe team options. This would mean getting the Scripts for #DECIPHER, #NODECIPHER, #ADVDECIPHER1, #ADVENERGY, and #ADVENERGY1 working. Fixing ADVDECIPHER1 and ADVENERGY1 would probably require changing the base level of probe team morale.
2. Adding the various potential bonuses to the CITIZENS section of the alpha file. The bonuses are mentioned in the Help.txt file under the heading #CITIZENHECK.
3. Adding a combat defense/attack bonus for Energy weapons versus projectile armor and Projectile weapons versus Energy armor.
4. Adding Commerce penalities to the negative SOCIAL, ECONOMY effects.
5 Adding variables to control the bonus you get from secret projects like the Neural Amp, Dream Twister, and base facilities like Perimeter Defense, Tachyon Field, and Aerospace Complexes.
6. Making the Telepathic Matrix give +2 PROBE instead of +2 Probe team morale.

Bugfixes:
1. Getting the Faction Bonus COMMFREQ working along with fixing the graphical bug that occurs in the SE faction social bonus/penalty display when using the SOCIAL, TALENT effect. I have attempted to fix the SOCIAL TALENT bug myself but my attempts have made the game unstable.
2. Fixing the road attack combat bonus and seperating the variables that control the bonuses for Mobile vs. Rough and Mobile vs. Base
3. Fixing the FACTENERGYBON display in the Faction Budget/Economic window (I think it is the F3 shortcut display???).
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Geo on November 23, 2014, 10:24:38 AM
For instance, changing it so that say the Monsoon landmark gives nutrient+energy instead of just nutrients.
Or even changing the output to zero.

That sort of information needs to be stored somewhere, though, and that means reworking something to make room.

I would've thought the landmark yield info is already stored somewhere? Or is its 'storage' space to small to add info?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 23, 2014, 01:25:50 PM
My list of features and bugfixes in order:
Features:
1. Enableing the various probe team options. This would mean getting the Scripts for #DECIPHER, #NODECIPHER, #ADVDECIPHER1, #ADVENERGY, and #ADVENERGY1 working. Fixing ADVDECIPHER1 and ADVENERGY1 would probably require changing the base level of probe team morale.

This would have multiplier 2 for enabling #DECIPHER/#NODECIPHER, multiplier 2 for enabling #ADVENERGY, and multiplier 1 for PROBE morale changes (which include a change to base level of probe morale as well as a few other things.)

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2. Adding the various potential bonuses to the CITIZENS section of the alpha file. The bonuses are mentioned in the Help.txt file under the heading #CITIZENHECK.

This would be multiplier 1.

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3. Adding a combat defense/attack bonus for Energy weapons versus projectile armor and Projectile weapons versus Energy armor.

This would be multiplier 2.
 
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4. Adding Commerce penalities to the negative SOCIAL, ECONOMY effects.

This would be multiplier 1.

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5 Adding variables to control the bonus you get from secret projects like the Neural Amp, Dream Twister, and base facilities like Perimeter Defense, Tachyon Field, and Aerospace Complexes.

This would be multiplier 2.

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6. Making the Telepathic Matrix give +2 PROBE instead of +2 Probe team morale.

This would be multiplier 1.

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Bugfixes:
1. Getting the Faction Bonus COMMFREQ working

This would be multiplier 1.

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along with fixing the graphical bug that occurs in the SE faction social bonus/penalty display when using the SOCIAL, TALENT effect. I have attempted to fix the SOCIAL TALENT bug myself but my attempts have made the game unstable.

If you mean that it doesn't display, doing it myself would be a no-go; if you give me a description of how you tried to fix it, I may be able to fix the instability, but that would still be multiplier 1/4 with no guarantee of success.  In any case, it would count as a feature, not a bugfix.

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2. Fixing the road attack combat bonus

Already done.

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and seperating the variables that control the bonuses for Mobile vs. Rough and Mobile vs. Base

Counts as a feature rather than bugfix, multiplier 2.

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3. Fixing the FACTENERGYBON display in the Faction Budget/Economic window (I think it is the F3 shortcut display???).

Multiplier 1.

For instance, changing it so that say the Monsoon landmark gives nutrient+energy instead of just nutrients.
Or even changing the output to zero.

That sort of information needs to be stored somewhere, though, and that means reworking something to make room.

I would've thought the landmark yield info is already stored somewhere? Or is its 'storage' space to small to add info?

I think its storage space only holds the names; the effects are hardcoded.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: gwillybj on November 23, 2014, 03:36:50 PM
Here's a minor one that I don't expect will get much mileage:

A pet peeve I have is hitting the "d" instead of the "s" or "f" when I have made just one terraforming enhancement, and having that be destroyed because the key for Destroy is "d" and there is no confirmation dialogue (as there is when there are two or more enhancements and it wants to know which one to destroy). Can that be changed to "Shift+D" (and have plain "d" be unassigned)?

I've built a road, want a farm, hit the "d" instead of the "f", and the road is destroyed. Or, I have a farm, want to add solar, hit "d" instead of "s", and lose the farm.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 23, 2014, 03:45:02 PM
Here's a minor one that I don't expect will get much mileage:

A pet peeve I have is hitting the "d" instead of the "s" or "f" when I have made just one terraforming enhancement, and having that be destroyed because the key for Destroy is "d" and there is no confirmation dialogue (as there is when there are two or more enhancements and it wants to know which one to destroy). Can that be changed to "Shift+D" (and have plain "d" be unassigned)?

I've built a road, want a farm, hit the "d" instead of the "f", and the road is destroyed. Or, I have a farm, want to add solar, hit "d" instead of "s", and lose the farm.

Only one problem: shift-d is used for disband.

However, it would, I think, be possible to add a confirmation dialogue when destroying enhancements in your own territory.  You can nominate that if you want (it'd be multiplier 1, and not dependent on alphax.txt.)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: gwillybj on November 23, 2014, 03:51:05 PM
oops - I disband so rarely that I forgot it.
The confirmation for each "destroy" order in home territory would be nice.
Title: Re: Scrambling
Post by: TarMinyatur on November 23, 2014, 08:37:57 PM
How about a rule in alphax.txt to affect the scrambling of needlejets?

1, 25 ; Scrambling {0 = disable, 1 = enable for units with < x% damage}

It is frustrating when a heavily damaged Needlejet scrambles to intercept enemy bombers with no chance to win.

It would probably make more sense to have it be based on the situation; even if it's heavily damaged, it might be better to lose the needlejet than whatever the unit was originally attacking, and depending on the relative weapon strengths it might have the advantage even with damage.

Perhaps have it scramble if either the unit being attacked costs more than it does, or it has a better than 50% chance of winning?

Hmm...I'm not sure the cost comparison of units makes for good gameplay (unless you are playing the Morganites or Spartans).

The combat prediction seems logical and good for gameplay overall. So perhaps the percentage could be an alphax.txt variable so it could be finely tuned. 50% is a good starting point, but that might be too high or too low.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Dio on November 23, 2014, 09:27:54 PM
Would it be acceptable to have the probe team targetted tech steal and the decreased survival and success percentage for stealing energy credits count as a single nomination?
Title: Re: Scrambling
Post by: Yitzi on November 23, 2014, 09:56:16 PM
Hmm...I'm not sure the cost comparison of units makes for good gameplay (unless you are playing the Morganites or Spartans).

Why not?  Wouldn't you rather lose a 20 mineral interceptor than a 30 mineral crawler?

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The combat prediction seems logical and good for gameplay overall. So perhaps the percentage could be an alphax.txt variable so it could be finely tuned. 50% is a good starting point, but that might be too high or too low.

That could be done...and 0% would then mean always intercept, and 100% would mean never intercept.

Would it be acceptable to have the probe team targetted tech steal and the decreased survival and success percentage for stealing energy credits count as a single nomination?

Since they are fundamentally independent changes, no.  Of course, stuff that doesn't win this time can still make it into future patches...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Dio on November 23, 2014, 10:03:26 PM
My first nomination for a new feature is for targeted probe team tech steal. My second nomination for a new feature is a bonus to Energy weapons versus Projectile based Armor and a bonus to Projectile weapons versus Energy based Armor.
Title: Re: Scrambling
Post by: TarMinyatur on November 23, 2014, 10:51:33 PM
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Hmm...I'm not sure the cost comparison of units makes for good gameplay (unless you are playing the Morganites or Spartans).

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Wouldn't you rather lose a 20 mineral interceptor than a 30 mineral crawler?

Yes. But I am thinking about the inverse situation.

Interceptors shouldn't remain idle while their comrades are being bombed, regardless of their mineral costs. They scramble to defend. That is their duty as air-superiority units. Only Morgan would keep them locked up in a hangar.

It is not the duty of Interceptors to go on statistically hopeless missions, however. So if the chance of winning is reasonable, they take to the skies. 


Title: Re: Scrambling
Post by: Yitzi on November 24, 2014, 01:31:52 AM
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Hmm...I'm not sure the cost comparison of units makes for good gameplay (unless you are playing the Morganites or Spartans).

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Wouldn't you rather lose a 20 mineral interceptor than a 30 mineral crawler?

Yes. But I am thinking about the inverse situation.

Interceptors shouldn't remain idle while their comrades are being bombed, regardless of their mineral costs. They scramble to defend. That is their duty as air-superiority units. Only Morgan would keep them locked up in a hangar.

It is not the duty of Interceptors to go on statistically hopeless missions, however. So if the chance of winning is reasonable, they take to the skies.

Except that in SMAC/X there is no such thing as a statistically hopeless mission.  Even if the interceptor will definitely die without doing any damage, it will still prevent the attacker from harming whatever it had originally been attacking.  So if the chance of winning is reasonable or it will save a unit more valuable than the interceptor itself, they should intercept.
Title: Re: Scrambling
Post by: TarMinyatur on November 24, 2014, 02:38:59 AM
Quote from: TarMinyatur
It is not the duty of Interceptors to go on statistically hopeless missions, however. So if the chance of winning is reasonable, they take to the skies.

Quote from: Yitzi
Except that in SMAC/X there is no such thing as a statistically hopeless mission.  Even if the interceptor will definitely die without doing any damage, it will still prevent the attacker from harming whatever it had originally been attacking.  So if the chance of winning is reasonable or it will save a unit more valuable than the interceptor itself, they should intercept.
I see your point. But I believe that a highly damaged Needlejet's greatest priority is to get repaired such that it can potently fight another day. It shouldn't sacrifice itself simply because another unit happens to have required 10 more minerals to be built than itself. There is more to the concept of value than mineral investment.

If I have a crippled 4-row Interceptor and, let's say, a dozen 5-row Sentinels, which type is more valuable to my faction? I'd say the jet is more valuable than the infantry, especially after it is repaired.

Yes, of course I should withdraw my damaged jet from hostile areas so that it can be repaired, but sometimes that isn't possible.
Title: Re: Scrambling
Post by: Yitzi on November 24, 2014, 02:42:36 AM
I see your point. But I believe that a highly damaged Needlejet's greatest priority is to get repaired such that it can potently fight another day. It shouldn't sacrifice itself simply because another unit happens to have required 10 more minerals to be built than itself. There is more to the concept of value than mineral investment.

If I have a crippled 4-row Interceptor and, let's say, a dozen 5-row Sentinels, which type is more valuable to my faction? I'd say the jet is more valuable than the infantry, especially after it is repaired.

Then why did you build the infantry, if it costs more and is worth less?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: TarMinyatur on November 24, 2014, 02:53:51 AM
A force of 13 Interceptors is ineffective. The jet is valuable due to its rarity in the scenario I depicted.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 24, 2014, 03:04:00 AM
A force of 13 Interceptors is ineffective. The jet is valuable due to its rarity in the scenario I depicted.

And it might be that you got some of each to be covered either way, and now you've lost enough interceptors that it's worth more?  I can buy that, but that means that things get a lot more complicated and can't really be easily based on an automatic system (as sometimes the interceptor will be worth more, and sometimes those sentinels will be worth more).

How's this for a change: Instead of placing the limits as suggested before, say that interceptors (in human-controlled factions) on hold position won't intercept (so that if you're saving it for whatever reason you can do so), but interceptors using the sleep command will.  That way, you can hold-position your damaged interceptor, but if you want it out there anyway it can do so.
Title: Re: scrambling
Post by: TarMinyatur on November 24, 2014, 03:42:31 AM
Use the "hold" key to prevent scrambling? Intuitive. Yes, that'll work.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: ete on November 24, 2014, 03:49:09 AM
No, then you have to skip over it every turn. In lategame you don't want the hassle, but scrambling is still useful.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 24, 2014, 04:20:50 AM
No, then you have to skip over it every turn. In lategame you don't want the hassle, but scrambling is still useful.

That's why the "sleep" order would not prevent scrambling; it still means not having to skip over it every turn, but is different than "hold".

The harder-to-implement alternative is to have a "stand down" position that acts like hold position but also prevents air interception, artillery interception, and makes the unit act as last choice for defending.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Dio on November 25, 2014, 05:01:12 PM
My first nomination for a bugfix is to get COMMFREQ working.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Geo on November 25, 2014, 07:16:24 PM
For instance, changing it so that say the Monsoon landmark gives nutrient+energy instead of just nutrients.
Or even changing the output to zero.

That sort of information needs to be stored somewhere, though, and that means reworking something to make room.

I would've thought the landmark yield info is already stored somewhere? Or is its 'storage' space to small to add info?

I think its storage space only holds the names; the effects are hardcoded.

Okay, I reckon its a 'no, for the time being' then. :)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 25, 2014, 10:08:06 PM
For instance, changing it so that say the Monsoon landmark gives nutrient+energy instead of just nutrients.
Or even changing the output to zero.

That sort of information needs to be stored somewhere, though, and that means reworking something to make room.

I would've thought the landmark yield info is already stored somewhere? Or is its 'storage' space to small to add info?

I think its storage space only holds the names; the effects are hardcoded.

Okay, I reckon its a 'no, for the time being' then. :)

Not quite; it's a "it's not an option itself, but the thing needed before it can be done is an option."
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: DarthNihilus on November 26, 2014, 07:00:17 PM
1. Make a moddable number of MAX spotting worms (air\water\land). Cause they doesn't stop appearing after building the VoP @ me :)
2. A scrollable F4 window (like the building window)
3. Stop factions contacting me EVER. only I can speak to them
4. Formers DOESN'T move when in auto mode, ONLY when there IS smth to do
5. (My dream) when I have 100 formers in auto and a former-able square, I noticed that ALL unemployed formers are going to that square. Than when one reaches it and starts to work, ALL the remaining are gone to another square, etc. Make them STOP behaiving like that.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 26, 2014, 07:49:54 PM
1. Make a moddable number of MAX spotting worms (air\water\land). Cause they doesn't stop appearing after building the VoP @ me :)

What do you mean "spotting worms"?  I think the VoP affects only ecodamage-caused worms.

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2. A scrollable F4 window (like the building window)

I'm not sure what you mean here.  The building window scrolls only with arrow keys (not by moving your mouse somewhere), and the f4 window also scrolls with arrow keys.

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3. Stop factions contacting me EVER. only I can speak to them

This option could be added; it has a vote multiplier of 1.

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4. Formers DOESN'T move when in auto mode, ONLY when there IS smth to do

So automated formers should not move except when going somewhere?  Should be doable, if a bit tricky; I'll give it a vote multiplier of 2/3.

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5. (My dream) when I have 100 formers in auto and a former-able square, I noticed that ALL unemployed formers are going to that square. Than when one reaches it and starts to work, ALL the remaining are gone to another square, etc. Make them STOP behaiving like that.

This is actually probably not all that difficult; it has a vote multiplier of 1.

Note, however, that you can only nominate two features for each vote.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: DarthNihilus on November 27, 2014, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: Yitzi
What do you mean "spotting worms"?  I think the VoP affects only ecodamage-caused worms.
Yes, I mean when they are appearing on ecodamage-caused-appearing fungus squares. There are always at least 64 worms but suddenly when I attack them with the corresponding unit they all are "destroyed" at once, but sometimes I forgwt to dealwith them and onnext turn all the 100500 worms are there in flesh.
Quote from: Yitzi
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2. A scrollable F4 window (like the building window)
I'm not sure what you mean here.  The building window scrolls only with arrow keys (not by moving your mouse somewhere), and the f4 window also scrolls with arrow keys.
I mean that when I'm only hovering my mouse over the build window I can scroll it, using the mouse scroller. The F4 window I can only scroll by pressing the downscroll button on the F4 window with my mouse. So I'd like to scroll it as the build window - when I'm only hovering my mouse over it.

Oh, sorry - I forgot one more - the air units, when put in On Alert state are NOT attacking any unit, only making a rendevuz with them, flying uselessly around (lurkers also). Ex.: I made a needlejet with psi weapon. In manual mode I can attack a land unit as a Mind Worm, but in On Alert state the needlejet is only flying around. The same for water units.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on November 27, 2014, 12:17:03 PM
Quote from: Yitzi
What do you mean "spotting worms"?  I think the VoP affects only ecodamage-caused worms.
Yes, I mean when they are appearing on ecodamage-caused-appearing fungus squares. There are always at least 64 worms but suddenly when I attack them with the corresponding unit they all are "destroyed" at once, but sometimes I forgwt to dealwith them and onnext turn all the 100500 worms are there in flesh.

And this happens after the VoP is built?  I thought that stopped it, but maybe not...

In any case, that sounds like it's from the ecodamage itself, and "moddable rules for how many worms appear" is definitely a possible nomination.

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I mean that when I'm only hovering my mouse over the build window I can scroll it, using the mouse scroller. The F4 window I can only scroll by pressing the downscroll button on the F4 window with my mouse. So I'd like to scroll it as the build window - when I'm only hovering my mouse over it.

Ok...that'll have multiplier 1/2, but with the build window as a sample should be doable.

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Oh, sorry - I forgot one more - the air units, when put in On Alert state are NOT attacking any unit, only making a rendevuz with them, flying uselessly around (lurkers also). Ex.: I made a needlejet with psi weapon. In manual mode I can attack a land unit as a Mind Worm, but in On Alert state the needlejet is only flying around. The same for water units.

Strange, as it works for me.  It doesn't show the battle, but it does attack.

In any case, that's a lot of potential nominations; each person is only entitled to 2, so you'll have to pick which 2 you want.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: DarthNihilus on November 27, 2014, 01:36:06 PM
Well as for me I'm all about the F4 window and the diplomacy annoyance stopper in the first place.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on December 03, 2014, 12:52:18 AM
Ok, nominations are now closed.  The voting thread should be up later tonight.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: BFG on December 03, 2014, 05:33:31 AM
Well, looks like I was too late for this round, but hopefully you won't mind me posting a few ideas anyway.  I HAVE been gone from the board for nearly 2 years, after all!
If any of these have already been discussed+rejected, or if they aren't feasible, then feel free to ignore.  In the meantime I have a lot of reading to do to catch up, it seems!

Requested features:
1. (removed - Yitzi addressed in another thread)
2. Automated Gravship formers are capable of making changes to sea squares as well as land squares.  (Currently they can only automatically affect land, but can manually affect sea.)
3.  AI is capable of using Sea Supply and Aerial Supply units effectively.
4.  AI is capable of using Aerial Colony units effectively.  (This could provide certain AIs a HUGE boost in power...it could make them considerably more competitive.)
5.  AI is capable of using Gravship Formers.  (Yeah, yeah...but there are some games I've played where this actually could've made a difference.)
6.  Fix the "255 unit rollover bug".  If a faction has >255 units of the same design, the game will calculate military strength, upgrade cost, etc. all incorrectly, leading to a huge advantage for that faction and poor AI choices.  For example, 280 units are treated as 25 units in these calculations.
7.  Add back in the "Inertial Damping" and "Global Energy Theory" techs to balance and expand the tech tree.  I already play with these in my own game.
8.  Include the sound file fixes for SMAC v2.0 in subsequent patches.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on December 03, 2014, 06:16:27 AM
2. Automated Gravship formers are capable of making changes to sea squares as well as land squares.  (Currently they can only automatically affect land, but can manually affect sea.)
3.  AI is capable of using Sea Supply and Aerial Supply units effectively.
4.  AI is capable of using Aerial Colony units effectively.  (This could provide certain AIs a HUGE boost in power...it could make them considerably more competitive.)
5.  AI is capable of using Gravship Formers.  (Yeah, yeah...but there are some games I've played where this actually could've made a difference.)

Note that any AI changes will require substantial analysis, and so have a low multiplier if they don't outright require a prerequisite of "analyze the AI".

Quote
7.  Add back in the "Inertial Damping" and "Global Energy Theory" techs to balance and expand the tech tree.  I already play with these in my own game.

This can be done using just alphax.txt, and gameplay changes are intentionally not included in my patch (just the ability to mod to add them) unless they are bugfixes.

Quote
8.  Include the sound file fixes for SMAC v2.0 in subsequent patches.

What are these fixes again?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: BFG on December 03, 2014, 05:05:47 PM
Yeah, I had a feeling that the AI changes might be rather time-consuming and difficult.  Simply causing the AI to produce such units isn't enough - I've tried that and it doesn't know what to do with them.  Ah well.

On #8, there are five sound files that are incompatible with the final SMAC patch.  I remember that the level 5 weapon is one of them; I don't recall the others.  Anyway, for some reason, Firaxis encoded those sound files as stereo, while all other files used by the game are mono.  Stereo files are incompatible with the final patch.  So, just re-encoding those files to mono gets them working again.  I already posted the re-encoded files as a small patch in the Downloads section.

Let me know if you need any more info on the #6 bug.  It is potentially game-breaking because, if someone has EXACTLY 256 units, it's treated as zero units and (theoretically) could cause crashes.  I haven't actually observed this yet though.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on December 03, 2014, 07:30:54 PM
Yeah, I had a feeling that the AI changes might be rather time-consuming and difficult.

On the flip side, fixing the AI is an eventual goal, since my try with the group AAR taught me that the AI is really fairly stupid, and I'm sure I can improve on it.

Quote
On #8, there are five sound files that are incompatible with the final SMAC patch.  I remember that the level 5 weapon is one of them; I don't recall the others.  Anyway, for some reason, Firaxis encoded those sound files as stereo, while all other files used by the game are mono.  Stereo files are incompatible with the final patch.  So, just re-encoding those files to mono gets them working again.  I already posted the re-encoded files as a small patch in the Downloads section.

And you want them included in my patches?

Might as well.  That's easy enough that I'll put it in 3.4.

Quote
Let me know if you need any more info on the #6 bug.  It is potentially game-breaking because, if someone has EXACTLY 256 units, it's treated as zero units and (theoretically) could cause crashes.  I haven't actually observed this yet though.

While I suppose it's possible that the script for a unit might look at the number of its unit type, that probably doesn't happen.  (And of course if it's not for the unit then it has to take care of the issue anyway because you might just not have any of that unit.)

In any case, feel free to post the bugfixes as a write-in in the vote thread (and get other people to vote for them as well; no write-in is going to get in with only one person's support), and you can nominate others next time.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: ete on December 03, 2014, 08:06:07 PM
That's why the "sleep" order would not prevent scrambling; it still means not having to skip over it every turn, but is different than "hold".

The harder-to-implement alternative is to have a "stand down" position that acts like hold position but also prevents air interception, artillery interception, and makes the unit act as last choice for defending.
Ah, I see now.
On #8, there are five sound files that are incompatible with the final SMAC patch.  I remember that the level 5 weapon is one of them; I don't recall the others.  Anyway, for some reason, Firaxis encoded those sound files as stereo, while all other files used by the game are mono.  Stereo files are incompatible with the final patch.  So, just re-encoding those files to mono gets them working again.  I already posted the re-encoded files as a small patch in the Downloads section.

And you want them included in my patches?

Might as well.  That's easy enough that I'll put it in 3.4.
I'll drop them into ACU too, but.. just testing it seems like my files are working fine (and are larger than yours, I assume mine are stereo). I've attached them to this post to compare if you like.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: BFG on December 04, 2014, 01:13:36 AM
Sorry, I was wrong about those sound files.  (Darn fuzzy memory.)  They will work with the final patched version of SMAC, but not the final patched version of SMAX.  Hopefully that'll clear up the differing test results.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: BFG on December 04, 2014, 01:17:26 AM
Quote
Quote
Let me know if you need any more info on the #6 bug.  It is potentially game-breaking because, if someone has EXACTLY 256 units, it's treated as zero units and (theoretically) could cause crashes.  I haven't actually observed this yet though.

While I suppose it's possible that the script for a unit might look at the number of its unit type, that probably doesn't happen.  (And of course if it's not for the unit then it has to take care of the issue anyway because you might just not have any of that unit.)

In any case, feel free to post the bugfixes as a write-in in the vote thread (and get other people to vote for them as well; no write-in is going to get in with only one person's support), and you can nominate others next time.

There are at least 2 calculations that are affected by this: the calculation that determines each faction's overall military strength (which then is used to help the AI make decisions on Vendettas, etc.), and the calculation that is used to determine Upgrade Cost.  I'm not sure if there are any other problems caused by this bug.

On the "military strength" issue: I had an AI unwisely declare Vendetta the turn after my primary attack unit count went from 255 to 257.  My faction was no longer listed as the strongest military at that point either.  Anyway, I'll put it on the nominations list, thanks.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: ete on December 04, 2014, 02:06:42 AM
Sorry, I was wrong about those sound files.  (Darn fuzzy memory.)  They will work with the final patched version of SMAC, but not the final patched version of SMAX.  Hopefully that'll clear up the differing test results.
I tested in SMAX, Yitzi version 3.3b.

Listening to them next to each other.. your files also seem cut off and lower quality, mine fades out much more nicely. Compare your and my missile launcher sounds for example.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on December 04, 2014, 12:45:52 PM
Sorry, I was wrong about those sound files.  (Darn fuzzy memory.)  They will work with the final patched version of SMAC, but not the final patched version of SMAX.  Hopefully that'll clear up the differing test results.
I tested in SMAX, Yitzi version 3.3b.

Listening to them next to each other.. your files also seem cut off and lower quality, mine fades out much more nicely. Compare your and my missile launcher sounds for example.

Ok...so where are yours?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: ete on December 04, 2014, 02:28:25 PM
I've attached them to this post to compare if you like.
Attached to that post.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: BFG on December 05, 2014, 04:00:40 AM
Aha!  I think we have the answer.  Are you playing the GOG version?  The original, non-GOG versions have the issue, but based on other forum threads I think GOG fixed it.  I'm playing the old Planetary Pack version which is probably why I'm still noticing it.

Anyway, I'm open to any fix that gets the files working in all versions of SMAX 2.0 with no official patches.  These five files are affected:

alien non military.wav
strine c4.wav (note the typo)
wpn missile launcher.wav
wpn singularity laser.wav
wpn spore launcher.wav


The "fix" I made was VERY basic...I just took the original stereo WAV files and forced them to Mono in an editor (Audacity?).  Some of the fadeout was caused by differing levels in the two channels so it was lost in conversion.  I didn't notice any cutoff but it's possible.  I don't have great ears, so if your copies sound better to you, are closer to the original Firaxis files, and are correctly encoded as 22kHz/16bit/mono so all versions of SMAX can read them, I'd say use yours instead.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: ete on December 05, 2014, 04:18:01 AM
Okay, listening to the two together mine sound notably better than the mono one. I'm not certain where mine come from, it's not gog, so maybe it would be good if someone who definitely has gog could upload their copies for a full comparison?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on December 05, 2014, 05:00:17 PM
Until there's something available that's better for everyone than what they have (or at least equal), I don't think I'll include the new sounds in my patch.  They're still available in BFG's download, so people can get them if they want.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: BFG on December 05, 2014, 06:59:55 PM
That makes sense.  The priority on this is much lower if someone with a GOG install can confirm these sound files are fixed out-of-the-box.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: gwillybj on January 13, 2015, 02:31:48 PM
Probably too late for this, but yesterday while playing I was reminded of an old thorn in the F4 base display: At 800x600 resolution, a Network Node that is linked to an Artifact has the word "Linked" in the list of facilities. At 1024x768 (and greater?), that notation is not there. It would be nice to have it at all resolutions, even if it is just the word "Link" or "-L".
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Mart on January 13, 2015, 02:57:08 PM
... At 800x600 resolution, a Network Node that is linked to an Artifact has the word "Linked" in the list of facilities. At 1024x768 (and greater?), that notation is not there....
I second that. My present solution is to rename the base by adding * at the end of the base name. It is although giving information to other players without infiltration, who know this. And in case I forget to do it, later I may be surprised, that my AA traveled to a wrong base.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 13, 2015, 04:03:01 PM
...In the Goto/"G" screen, it notes which bases are linked, when the unit in question is an AA...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on January 13, 2015, 04:29:59 PM
Probably too late for this, but yesterday while playing I was reminded of an old thorn in the F4 base display: At 800x600 resolution, a Network Node that is linked to an Artifact has the word "Linked" in the list of facilities. At 1024x768 (and greater?), that notation is not there. It would be nice to have it at all resolutions, even if it is just the word "Link" or "-L".

It is too late, but you can nominate if for the following one (when I get to that; the patch is going somewhat slower than it was, due partially to stress over the whole "getting a Ph.D and then getting a job" thing...)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Mart on January 13, 2015, 05:48:12 PM
...In the Goto/"G" screen, it notes which bases are linked, when the unit in question is an AA...
Thank you, I will have to use this feature.  ;b;
It works also on AA with exhausted move points, so it won't accidentally move, when viewing the list.
I move units manually and probably never before I've tried that list with AA, until today!
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 13, 2015, 06:17:40 PM
I discovered it using the "G" to find bases - when you've filled up the map and the basenames are similar, it can be a pain.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: PvtHudson on January 22, 2015, 01:17:03 PM
Better late, than never. I'll submit my 2 wishes, sorry if they were already discussed and rejected.
1. Non-lethal air attacks on land units, except probe teams. Attack by air unit cannot reduce land unit health below 10% outdoor, 50% in base or bunker. Ideally, collateral damage to population from Nerve Gas Pods should still apply. Probe teams can be obliterated, inglourious basterds they are! And probably SAM units must fight to the death.
2. Techsteal is only possible from the base with Network Node. If you don't want to be proberaped, sell NN in vulnerable base. Poor old Zak can't do this, which makes perfect sense! Setting should have different values for probe teams and TECHSTEAL faction ability.
Both features are controlled by alphax.txt.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on January 23, 2015, 01:05:18 PM
Better late, than never.

It's too late to nominate for 3.5, but eventually I plan to do nominations for 3.6 and you can submit them then.

Quote
I'll submit my 2 wishes, sorry if they were already discussed and rejected.
1. Non-lethal air attacks on land units, except probe teams. Attack by air unit cannot reduce land unit health below 10% outdoor, 50% in base or bunker. Ideally, collateral damage to population from Nerve Gas Pods should still apply. Probe teams can be obliterated, inglourious basterds they are! And probably SAM units must fight to the death.

You mean a "max damage from air attacks" like what happens for artillery?  That could be done...

Quote
2. Techsteal is only possible from the base with Network Node. If you don't want to be proberaped, sell NN in vulnerable base. Poor old Zak can't do this, which makes perfect sense! Setting should have different values for probe teams and TECHSTEAL faction ability.

That's an interesting idea, and should be doable...

Quote
Both features are controlled by alphax.txt.

That's a given.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: PvtHudson on January 26, 2015, 07:49:12 AM
You mean a "max damage from air attacks" like what happens for artillery?
Yes, quite similar to artillery. The idea is to force players use ground troops, cutting chop&drop.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Geo on February 13, 2015, 08:22:48 PM
Yitzi, the .exe you released last November (3.5), is that the last version without community requests in it?
And have you an idea of how much work you have to do before your first version with community requests in it is released?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on February 15, 2015, 12:04:26 AM
Yitzi, the .exe you released last November (3.5), is that the last version without community requests in it?

I don't think I released any since 3.3; 3.4 is almost ready, and will be the last version without community requests in it.  (Things have been a lot busier than I expected over the last few months, hence why it's gone slower than in the past.)

Quote
And have you an idea of how much work you have to do before your first version with community requests in it is released?

Usually, each version is about the same amount of work on the patch give or take; it's work on other things that's been holding the last one up.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Geo on February 15, 2015, 01:08:07 AM
My mistake. Must have interpreted the "b" as a "5" in your latest release.

Does each new version require a clean install? I'm asking because when I switch an old with a new terranx.exe version, I got alphax.txt error popups in a modded version of your work.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on February 15, 2015, 05:32:44 AM
My mistake. Must have interpreted the "b" as a "5" in your latest release.

Does each new version require a clean install? I'm asking because when I switch an old with a new terranx.exe version, I got alphax.txt error popups in a modded version of your work.

No clean installs should be required; however, the main version (i.e. the numbers, not the letter) of the alphax file and the terranx file must match.  (If you mod, it must have the same lines in the same order as the alphax file associated with that version.)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Geo on February 15, 2015, 10:25:47 AM
Ah, that must be the cause. Thanks for clarifying. :)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Vishniac on March 20, 2015, 08:09:35 PM
Not sure of the right place to post this. Move it if necessary!

I'm playing a SP game with Yitzi 3_4
The drone apparition logic doesn't fit.
Ex: base pop 2 + 1 scout for police + Human Genome Project = 1 talent +1 drone and drone riots !?!
Also sometimes drone riots erupt without change in population, social engineering or number of bases.

Is there anything I should read (like a patch log)? For we use 3_4 in our MP game and I wouldn't like any bad surprises.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on March 20, 2015, 09:20:43 PM
Not sure of the right place to post this. Move it if necessary!

I'm playing a SP game with Yitzi 3_4
The drone apparition logic doesn't fit.
Ex: base pop 2 + 1 scout for police + Human Genome Project = 1 talent +1 drone and drone riots !?!
Also sometimes drone riots erupt without change in population, social engineering or number of bases.

Is there anything I should read (like a patch log)? For we use 3_4 in our MP game and I wouldn't like any bad surprises.

If you provide a savegame, I can probably figure out what's going on.  What drone control codes are you using?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Vishniac on March 21, 2015, 06:43:22 AM
Drone control codes?  ???
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Mart on March 21, 2015, 03:21:37 PM
2 things/ideas, small and possibly very large:

Something, that just I thought of, that possibly could be made with not much effort:
- When in base screen, each building item has its minerals displayed as blue boxes. What could be useful, is to quickly view what row length is at a given moment.
It may be obvious for some, or even easy to count, but when the row is like 8,9 minerals or more, it is difficult.
Why is it important?
When rushing, there is a penalty (double cost!) when having less than 10 minerals collected. So when mineral row is 8, I know, that I need to have 2 filled blue boxes in the second row. (8+2), for 9 (9+1) and so on.
Would it be possible to make in easy way something similar like for SUPPORT (...) and PSYCH (...) info added on the buttons there?
Under the mineral rows, there is a label:
TURNS: ...
Would it be possible to add row length info:
... TURNS: ...
[8] TURNS: 3

The second idea, probably for PRACX:
- Widescreen are very common now, but our lower panel is still 1024 pixels wide. Widening it would make it possible to display more info, or in more readable way.
For example, when having large base population, it is so difficult to view all the specialists. Especially, when one wants to finely adjust their specialization.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on March 22, 2015, 01:50:29 AM
Drone control codes?  ???

In alphax.txt, the number for the fourth line where it says "Drone rules code".

2 things/ideas, small and possibly very large:

Something, that just I thought of, that possibly could be made with not much effort:
- When in base screen, each building item has its minerals displayed as blue boxes. What could be useful, is to quickly view what row length is at a given moment.
It may be obvious for some, or even easy to count, but when the row is like 8,9 minerals or more, it is difficult.
Why is it important?
When rushing, there is a penalty (double cost!) when having less than 10 minerals collected. So when mineral row is 8, I know, that I need to have 2 filled blue boxes in the second row. (8+2), for 9 (9+1) and so on.
Would it be possible to make in easy way something similar like for SUPPORT (...) and PSYCH (...) info added on the buttons there?
Under the mineral rows, there is a label:
TURNS: ...
Would it be possible to add row length info:
... TURNS: ...
[8] TURNS: 3

It would be doable, but not quite as little effort as you seem to think.  If you nominate it, it'll probably get its votes doubled, but it's not getting in automatically.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on March 22, 2015, 03:21:41 AM
Ok, Vishniac, there are three things going on with that base:

1. You forgot to account for bureaucracy drones.  You're running Planned, so even as the Gaians you have 0 EFFIC; together with playing on Transcend, that means you get bureaucracy drones after 6 bases on a normal-sized map.  Since you are in fact playing on a small map, it is decreased to 4 bases.  You have far more than 4 bases, and as a result that base ends up with 2 bureaucracy drones.  Add those 2 to the 1 you had normally, and you get 1 normal drone and 1 superdrone.

2. What should happen next is that your police would then remove the normal drone, and the HGP would give you a talent.  There's a bug, removed by my patch, where the superdrone will cancel a talent even though there's enough non-specialist citizens to have them both.  (I know it's a bug because it only happens when there are more superdrones than normal citizens; essentially, it counts superdrones twice when seeing if there are enough citizens.)  With the bug, you'd therefore have one drone and that's it.  Without it, you should have one superdrone and one talent, which should mean no drone riots...

3. However, I must have, at some point, set the drone rules code to 8, which has a number of effects.  One of those effects is that superdrones count double when determining whether drone riots happen, since each superdrone is effectively 2 drones' worth of psych penalties.  Thus, you get drone riots with 1 superdrone and 1 talent.

To disable this, you can open up alphax.txt and change the drone rules code to 0 to play like the original game (but without the bug), or you can leave it at 8 for an experience that many people on this site consider to be a substantial improvement.  (Note, though, that a large part of the improvement comes from a substantial difficulty increase at higher levels, so don't be ashamed to switch to Thinker.)
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Vishniac on March 22, 2015, 04:45:20 PM
Thanks!

I don't want to tinker with alpha.txt, especially when I'm playing MP at the same time.
I'll take that is the 'new normal' drone situation and, moreover, I'll remember that small planet = more drones.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Mart on March 22, 2015, 04:55:46 PM

It would be doable, but not quite as little effort as you seem to think.  If you nominate it, it'll probably get its votes doubled, but it's not getting in automatically.
Actually, this is part of the lower panel, and also some additional info, that is moderately important (making some info more visible).

Maybe at some point a larger work on the lower panel would take place, and then it would be addressed.

Drone riots...
I like the drone riots from civ4 so much more. They just make less micromanaging when playing.
If there was some way to mod it into SMACX,  it would be quite interesting new gameplay.
Now when you pay enough attention, you can avoid like all of drone riots, but it is so micromanaging.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Mart on March 22, 2015, 05:08:01 PM
I also just noticed, alphax.txt has drone rule -> 8.
from description:
Code: [Select]
8:  If a base is all drones, and some are turned into specialists, an equal number will be turned into
    superdrones.  If a base is all superdrones and it is supposed to have even more drones than that, "phantom
    drones" will be created.  Superdrones and phantom drones do increase the number of talents needed to prevent
    drone riots.  (Thus, there is no way to stop drone riots other than psych, drone control facilities, and
    police.)  If a base is all talents and is supposed to have more talents, it will create "phantom talents",
    allowing a specialist base to still have golden ages.
So as I understand this rule, it has both benefiting of a player action (more golden ages with some conditions)
and making things more difficult (drone riots in bases with specialists).

It gives incentive for assigning psych and building some facilities like holo-theatre, which is often omitted by players.
Yet it makes certain strategy no longer valid - for free market you could station your military in all-specialists bases. Now they will drone-riot. Am I right?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on March 22, 2015, 09:09:03 PM
Thanks!

I don't want to tinker with alpha.txt, especially when I'm playing MP at the same time.
I'll take that is the 'new normal' drone situation and, moreover, I'll remember that small planet = more drones.

More precisely, more bases=more drones, where it's scaled to map size.  (If you play on a small map but only have 80% as many bases as you'd have on a normal-sized map, then it'll be the same number of drones.)

Actually, this is part of the lower panel, and also some additional info, that is moderately important (making some info more visible).

And how important it is would be determined by a vote, if it's nominated when nominations open again.

Quote
Drone riots...
I like the drone riots from civ4 so much more. They just make less micromanaging when playing.
If there was some way to mod it into SMACX,  it would be quite interesting new gameplay.
Now when you pay enough attention, you can avoid like all of drone riots, but it is so micromanaging.

That could also definitely be done, though nominations for the next patch are not yet open.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Vishniac on April 23, 2015, 12:10:06 AM
Something that seems strange. Could be improved.

I <ESC> a MP game before entering my password to look at something else on the web and when I resumed to actually play the turn I got the warning about tampering, even though I didn't open the turn previously.
And the next player got the warning about me playing the turn twice.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on April 23, 2015, 02:44:19 AM
Something that seems strange. Could be improved.

I <ESC> a MP game before entering my password to look at something else on the web and when I resumed to actually play the turn I got the warning about tampering, even though I didn't open the turn previously.
And the next player got the warning about me playing the turn twice.

Hmm...sounds like the "tampering" market is changed even before you enter your password...that sounds like it can be changed (though perhaps at a slight vote penalty), and would count as a bugfix.  Keep it in mind for once I open nominations for 3.6.  (Currently I'm working on a number of improvements to faction bonus parsing; I recently wrote the code to have it give an error message when an invalid bonus key* is given, so that accidentally writing "IMUNITY" will tell you something's wrong instead of ignoring it.)

*Except for a number, since I'm also making it so that things like FREEPROTO will work even without "0" after it, but then I don't want "FREEPROTO, 0" to give an error message...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Vishniac on May 02, 2015, 09:52:10 PM
Something that always bothered me and could be improved.
When you have infiltrated factions and you get messages on screen telling "The Morganites and The Hive have signed a Treaty" or "X and Y have agreed to combine their forces against Z", you can't read them because, at the same time, base screens open to talk about things produced, drone riots and so on... and after the message has disappeared.
Why not have it written in "M" like "Forest expands near..." and such, so you can access it later?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on May 03, 2015, 03:20:40 AM
Something that always bothered me and could be improved.
When you have infiltrated factions and you get messages on screen telling "The Morganites and The Hive have signed a Treaty" or "X and Y have agreed to combine their forces against Z", you can't read them because, at the same time, base screens open to talk about things produced, drone riots and so on... and after the message has disappeared.
Why not have it written in "M" like "Forest expands near..." and such, so you can access it later?

I'd have to figure out the relevant procedures...but it seems it could be done.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: vonbach on May 06, 2015, 10:27:13 PM
Is there a way to put an "automatic forests" in the game?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on May 07, 2015, 06:28:01 AM
Is there a way to put an "automatic forests" in the game?

You mean, have formers on automate make forests?  Seems it should be doable...though that's AI, which is one of the areas where I'd have to do substantially more work to learn what's going on.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: PvtHudson on May 18, 2015, 11:43:01 AM
Something that always bothered me and could be improved.
When you have infiltrated factions and you get messages on screen telling "The Morganites and The Hive have signed a Treaty" or "X and Y have agreed to combine their forces against Z", you can't read them because, at the same time, base screens open to talk about things produced, drone riots and so on... and after the message has disappeared.
Why not have it written in "M" like "Forest expands near..." and such, so you can access it later?
+1.
Something not so easy: borderpushes always infuriate me to no end. It would be great to have the option to claim land around newly established base forever. May be not that long distance as it is now in the absence of neighbors, just say base radius+1. But the claimed land (and sea) will change hands only together with the base. By the way, why sea borders are closer than land ones? The option to control that will be welcomed too. Can make AI sea bases spam less annoying.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on May 18, 2015, 03:08:45 PM
Thanks!

I don't want to tinker with alpha.txt, especially when I'm playing MP at the same time.
I'll take that is the 'new normal' drone situation and, moreover, I'll remember that small planet = more drones.

Actually, some MP games play with that rule, some play without it; you could just ask them.  Since it does affect gameplay, it's important that everybody be on the same page.

Something not so easy: borderpushes always infuriate me to no end. It would be great to have the option to claim land around newly established base forever. May be not that long distance as it is now in the absence of neighbors, just say base radius+1. But the claimed land (and sea) will change hands only together with the base.

So that there's an "inertial" radius, such that anything in that radius of one of your bases can't be transferred even if someone else has a closer base?

That should be doable.  However, barring moderately large changes, it would not be claimed by a single base, but rather by the faction...so if you then built another base within that distance of the square, you'd keep it even if the first base was conquered.

Quote
By the way, why sea borders are closer than land ones? The option to control that will be welcomed too. Can make AI sea bases spam less annoying.

That could definitely be done.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: PvtHudson on June 10, 2015, 01:42:22 PM
Am I the only one dissatisfied with the players placement on the map? How many times did you end on a medium-sized island together with Yang and Marr? I have a feeling the game uses close placement of AI players as a measure to increase difficulty, at least on Transcend. Some control over that would be wonderful.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on June 10, 2015, 03:33:45 PM
Am I the only one dissatisfied with the players placement on the map? How many times did you end on a medium-sized island together with Yang and Marr? I have a feeling the game uses close placement of AI players as a measure to increase difficulty, at least on Transcend. Some control over that would be wonderful.

Nomination is closed at the moment, but when it opens, "figuring out the faction placement algorithm" is definitely a possibility.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: mnk on June 15, 2015, 10:25:08 AM
I'd like to ask what would you think about (and how hard would it be to implement) save grouping ?

I'm not really a gamer. If I play, I rely heavily on saving often.
Yet I'm not good with coming up with names, so tend to go with game proposed name whenever I can.

In AC, this is a problem, as with the default name containing only leader's name and year, it gets quite tedious if I want to roll back a few (dozen) turns, as it's hard to tell then if the save came from new strand or the old one.

So, how hard would it be to and something like "Create a new directory" button to the save dialog and making the game remember the last directory it saved to ?

PS: also, how many of the fixes described in that scient dump posted a bit over 6 months ago (here (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=14141.msg64080#msg64080)) are yet to be implemented in your patch ? That is, is there anything in that dump, that's not fixed by your patch (with either similar or different approach) ?
I've looked briefly on those files, but most I could figure out (as asm hacks are beyond me and I don't know enough about smax internals to tell much about alpha.txt (and similar) changes), that in the music files some of the metadata was (IMHO needlessly) dropped and the program used added its own markings. As such, I've just reconverted those files to keep the old data.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on June 15, 2015, 02:39:04 PM
I'd like to ask what would you think about (and how hard would it be to implement) save grouping ?

I'm not really a gamer. If I play, I rely heavily on saving often.
Yet I'm not good with coming up with names, so tend to go with game proposed name whenever I can.

In AC, this is a problem, as with the default name containing only leader's name and year, it gets quite tedious if I want to roll back a few (dozen) turns, as it's hard to tell then if the save came from new strand or the old one.

So, how hard would it be to and something like "Create a new directory" button to the save dialog and making the game remember the last directory it saved to ?


Making it remember the last directory it saved to would probably be doable, and of medium difficulty.  A "create a new directory" button would probably be as close to "completely impossible" as it gets.  Of course, that wouldn't prevent you from creating a new directory in Windows Explorer and using it in SMAC/X.

Quote
PS: also, how many of the fixes described in that scient dump posted a bit over 6 months ago (here (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=14141.msg64080#msg64080)) are yet to be implemented in your patch ? That is, is there anything in that dump, that's not fixed by your patch (with either similar or different approach) ?


I actually didn't get to most of those (i.e. the engine fixes for 2.0; 1.0 is already included)...I think starting on that is going to be one of the projects for 3.6.  The only exceptions were #3 (keep Caretakers from building the Ascent), #5 (AI freeing the wrong faction), #8 (attack along road works).  #6 (placing the Nessus Canyon on randomly generated maps) is up to modders, but is off by default because I found that the placing algorithm tends to place the canyon where it just doesn't look right.  #28 has been completely replaced by my change-production-cost expansion.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: geojak on June 18, 2015, 09:18:07 PM
i would really like to see some AI improvements. Since I play only singleplayer, this makes a huge part of the game for me. maybe see some starting points from kyrubs last patch.

secondly some datalink improvements and expansion would really help me. I need a place ingame to read about all these ingame mechanics. it should be very detailed and correct
for example how fights are calculated with artillery and air and so on. I remember reading somewhere that the Air warfare is bugged in vanilla. Is this fixed? does it match the information given in the datalinks?

where can i find the voting pol?
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 18, 2015, 09:23:50 PM
I'm not sure one's open right now - but while we're in here suggesting, I'd like to remind Yitzi for the future about programmable interlude triggers in scenario creation and more flexibility in how the interludes can be made to display as a distant secondary wish.  scient always thought it should be doable, and several of us GotM team people have wanted this desperately for years.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on June 18, 2015, 10:07:14 PM
I'm not sure one's open right now - but while we're in here suggesting, I'd like to remind Yitzi for the future about programmable interlude triggers in scenario creation and more flexibility in how the interludes can be made to display as a distant secondary wish.  scient always thought it should be doable, and several of us GotM team people have wanted this desperately for years.

You'd need to list the sort of conditions you want to enable, but it should definitely be doable.  When it opens again, feel free to nominate it and try to talk people into voting for it.
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 18, 2015, 11:13:15 PM
Will do, sir. ;b;

I may need to do a little reading of some old stuff -not all here at AC2- to make sure I'm fresh on the details.


-Also, you know about the faction graphics bug in MP/scenarios.  I suspect -with my impressive powers of knowing mysterious stuff- sisko feels strongly about that one...
Title: Re: Nomination thread: New features/bugfixes for Yitzi's patch
Post by: Yitzi on June 18, 2015, 11:40:22 PM
-Also, you know about the faction graphics bug in MP/scenarios.  I suspect -with my impressive powers of knowing mysterious stuff- sisko feels strongly about that one...

If it is nominated, it can be voted for.
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