I personally I would like to see the rest of the features that were originally planned or partially implemented in the game completed.
1. The Unit prototype trade system implemented.
2. Combat bonuses for certain weapon modes versus certain armor modes.
3. The ADVENERGY, ADVENERGY2, ADVDECIPHER, and ADVDECIPHER2 script options made operational.
4. The above operation would also involve making it so that probe teams start at a lower base morale level. Also, perhaps making negative SOCIAL, PROBE effect probe team morale.
5. Commerce Penalities reintroduced/implemented for negative SOCIAL, ECONOMY effects.
6. Getting SOCIAL, TALENT to work and display properly in the game.
7. Getting the additional Citizen Specialist effects implemented.
3. The ADVENERGY, ADVENERGY2, ADVDECIPHER, and ADVDECIPHER2 script options made operational.I've never heard of these. What are they?
I personally I would like to see the rest of the features that were originally planned or partially implemented in the game completed.
1. The Unit prototype trade system implemented.
How does this work? Because it sounds like something that we may be better off without.Quote2. Combat bonuses for certain weapon modes versus certain armor modes.
Should be doable as part of a general combat project.Quote3. The ADVENERGY, ADVENERGY2, ADVDECIPHER, and ADVDECIPHER2 script options made operational.
They aren't?Quote4. The above operation would also involve making it so that probe teams start at a lower base morale level. Also, perhaps making negative SOCIAL, PROBE effect probe team morale.
Both are actually on my current list.Quote5. Commerce Penalities reintroduced/implemented for negative SOCIAL, ECONOMY effects.
This would be doable on request (and I've actually decided to start taking requests fairly soon).Quote6. Getting SOCIAL, TALENT to work and display properly in the game.
It already works as far as I know; displaying would require figuring out where it should show up.Quote7. Getting the additional Citizen Specialist effects implemented.
Which effects are these?
1. The automatic request by the AI for a Protoype trade (PROTOPACT) was only skeletal and simply contained the code for showing the Script box.
COMMFREQ: Unless you fixed it in one of your more recent patch updates it still does not operate.
3.ADVENRGY would operate almost identically to ADVDECIPHER. ADVENERGY1 and ADVDECIPHER1 would prevent probe teams below a certain morale level from breaking into a base after the first such attempt on that base.Do they not work properly now?
My mistake, #ADVDECIPHER is the option that currently works correctly to decreases probe team survival and success after the first probe team tech steal action on a specific base. I meant to say #DECIPHER instead of ADVDECIPHER. The DECIPHER script (if it worked correctly) would allow a probe team to either randomly grab a tech with a higher chance of success or to steal specific tech with a much lower chance of success. The chance of success is modified based upon whether it is the first or second plus action on the base. If the faction has no new tech it automatically takes their world map with option 1 and nothing with option 2 (bug).
7. Taken from the Help.txt File:
#CITIZENHECK
^Commerce bonus for base.
^Production bonus for base. Uncertain meaning
^Psi defense bonus for base.
^Morale bonus for base.
^Unit support bonus for base.
^Efficiency bonus for base.
^Aliens bonus for base. (Aliens Lifecycle Bonus)
This list exactly match the number of empty zero data pointers that appear at the end of each line in the #CITIZENS section of ALPHAX.
1. Their is a procedure in the game that controls the purchase of tech and commlinks. Inside this procedure is an incomplete section for also buying prototypes. As such, I realize it would be a lot of work to finish implementing such a feature. In other words, for almost every section I have seen prototypes in, it has been incomplete.1. The automatic request by the AI for a Protoype trade (PROTOPACT) was only skeletal and simply contained the code for showing the Script box.
What would happen in such a trade if it worked correctly?QuoteCOMMFREQ: Unless you fixed it in one of your more recent patch updates it still does not operate.
Apparently true. It's definitely a potential for the list of bugs to be fixed (when I switch to taking requests, the order of bugfixes for non-game-crippling bugs such as this will also be largely request-based.)Quote3.ADVENRGY would operate almost identically to ADVDECIPHER. ADVENERGY1 and ADVDECIPHER1 would prevent probe teams below a certain morale level from breaking into a base after the first such attempt on that base.Do they not work properly now?QuoteMy mistake, #ADVDECIPHER is the option that currently works correctly to decreases probe team survival and success after the first probe team tech steal action on a specific base. I meant to say #DECIPHER instead of ADVDECIPHER. The DECIPHER script (if it worked correctly) would allow a probe team to either randomly grab a tech with a higher chance of success or to steal specific tech with a much lower chance of success. The chance of success is modified based upon whether it is the first or second plus action on the base. If the faction has no new tech it automatically takes their world map with option 1 and nothing with option 2 (bug).
Yes, enabling targeted techsteal would be a possible future project.Quote7. Taken from the Help.txt File:
#CITIZENHECK
^Commerce bonus for base.
^Production bonus for base. Uncertain meaning
^Psi defense bonus for base.
^Morale bonus for base.
^Unit support bonus for base.
^Efficiency bonus for base.
^Aliens bonus for base. (Aliens Lifecycle Bonus)
This list exactly match the number of empty zero data pointers that appear at the end of each line in the #CITIZENS section of ALPHAX.
Yes, that would indicate unimplemented options; the nice thing about unimplemented options is that they've probably already got the necessary space, making them relatively easy to implement.
I wish there were more slots in the Unit Workshop.
I wish I could get rid of more than one obsolete unit type at once, so I didn't have to scroll all the way back to the obsolete unit section. Or at least a button for jumping to obsolete units. Or maybe the screen could stay put, meaning the focus would shift from freed up slot to adjacent slot.
1. Their is a procedure in the game that controls the purchase of tech and commlinks. Inside this procedure is an incomplete section for also buying prototypes. As such, I realize it would be a lot of work to finish implementing such a feature. In other words, for almost every section I have seen prototypes in, it has been incomplete.
3. ADVENERGY, ADVENERGY1, and ADVDECIPHER do not currently work as of the most current version of your patch.
My mistake again. The script for #ADVDECIPHER works properly. The other scripts are not operational but are in the game code. A method to prove Advenergy does not work is by simply probing the same base two or more times for energy credits. Stealing energy credits does not get harder the second time to probe a base. The other two are somehow related to probe team morale level.
For me the biggest thing I'd love to be able to do but can't is give the ability to build specific units as a faction bonus. The way custom units can be defined allows for all sorts of cool things normally not buildable like Probe Planes or units with loads of interesting abilities at once, but allowing them generally changes the game too much. Being able to give them to factions would be pretty awesome, and allow for a bunch of diverse awesome factions.
The two approaches I can see would be adding a field in the alphax which gives the name of a faction, and only allows the unit to be built by that faction (if blank applies to all factions), or possibly adding a field in the faction text file which lets you specify units there.
You may be able to steal code for "if faction name is x do y" from the Cult's late start, which is hardcoded against the faction text name.
Special abilities for native life. Though I haven't given it much thought.
For me the biggest thing I'd love to be able to do but can't is give the ability to build specific units as a faction bonus. The way custom units can be defined allows for all sorts of cool things normally not buildable like Probe Planes or units with loads of interesting abilities at once, but allowing them generally changes the game too much. Being able to give them to factions would be pretty awesome, and allow for a bunch of diverse awesome factions.
This would likely be part of a general tech tree rework, allowing more techs and "virtual techs", i.e. techs that are automatically researched as soon as you have the prerequisites, do not count toward your total techs, and cannot be traded. Then you could just make a virtual tech with prerequisite Disable (so it can't be researched), give it for free to the faction in question, and make it the prerequisite for the desired unit.
Special abilities for native life. Though I haven't given it much thought.
This actually can be done with just alphax.txt modding.
Basically, any predesigned unit with a psi attack (or fungal towers even without a psi attack) is considered native, with everything that includes...so if you give said units special abilities, you'll have native life with special abilities. (Exception: Heavy artillery is hardcoded to not work with psi except with spore launchers; there may be other abilities hardcoded not to work with psi either. But those will usually not be that difficult to change.)
For me the biggest thing I'd love to be able to do but can't is give the ability to build specific units as a faction bonus. The way custom units can be defined allows for all sorts of cool things normally not buildable like Probe Planes or units with loads of interesting abilities at once, but allowing them generally changes the game too much. Being able to give them to factions would be pretty awesome, and allow for a bunch of diverse awesome factions.
This would likely be part of a general tech tree rework, allowing more techs and "virtual techs", i.e. techs that are automatically researched as soon as you have the prerequisites, do not count toward your total techs, and cannot be traded. Then you could just make a virtual tech with prerequisite Disable (so it can't be researched), give it for free to the faction in question, and make it the prerequisite for the desired unit.
That could work, but has the major disadvantage of being stealable by probe. That means that making a faction with some amazing unit but other penalties overly vulnerable to probing, and especially exploitable by humans. Being able to define it directly on a per-faction basis without separate tech avoids those problems.
This is something that I've always wondered about, and it seems like it would be a skeleton key for a lot of interesting functions. Is this part of the code at all understood?QuoteYou may be able to steal code for "if faction name is x do y" from the Cult's late start, which is hardcoded against the faction text name.
It also shows up in the Caretakers' aversion to Transcendence.
This is something that I've always wondered about, and it seems like it would be a skeleton key for a lot of interesting functions. Is this part of the code at all understood?QuoteYou may be able to steal code for "if faction name is x do y" from the Cult's late start, which is hardcoded against the faction text name.
It also shows up in the Caretakers' aversion to Transcendence.
- Unlocking the Secrets of Caviar Editing
Sorry, when I said nontradable I should have specified "cannot be attained from one another in any manner". No trading, no probes, no techshare, no techsteal, nothing.That would be a good solution then. You may have to change a bunch of places to rule out each kind of tech obtainment, but yes, that'd be awesome if you got it to work.
"What do you consider to be the White Whale of SMAC modding?"
It all depends on what you'd like to be doing at the moment, doesn't it?
At different times the answer has been .cvr modding, when I was making factions for zsozso's Middle Earth mod - that was going to have recon rovers in it, no matter what, and programmable interlude triggers when working on a GotM scenario with a heavy story element - which the GotM team tends towards. When we wrote seven stories to go with "What Would Pravin Do?", it would have been SO nice to have been able to incorporate them directly into the scenario - but it just couldn't be done with the available interlude triggers.
Those are my two big ones.
something about non-tradeable techs
Whenever I work on this kind of thing, it just makes me think I should re-implement all of the AC engine in a more modern language and open source it.
Woah, wait, they made a Middle Earth mod?
when I was making factions for zsozso's Middle Earth mod
Whenever I work on this kind of thing, it just makes me think I should re-implement all of the AC engine in a more modern language and open source it.
Hmmmmm.
It never got finished - root around at WPC AC, circa early 2010-, if you're curious, and do whatever you can think of to try to contact zsozso -this goes for everyone- and lure him in out of the cold - I'm certainly game to resume work.
He IS a member here, and now we could at least paint a plane to look a little more like a Nazgul...
Sorry, when I said nontradable I should have specified "cannot be attained from one another in any manner". No trading, no probes, no techshare, no techsteal, nothing.That would be a good solution then. You may have to change a bunch of places to rule out each kind of tech obtainment, but yes, that'd be awesome if you got it to work.
This is all very true. The number one priority for making better story driven scenarios (one of the best outputs from our community, IMO) would be more control over interludes.
Unfortunately, it's not immediately apparent how to do this in any kind of flexible manner. I was working on a prototype for calling other executables from AC2 (and got it working), but I haven't worked out a good way to pass data between the AC binary and an external one yet.
I think what Yitzi is getting at is that that capability (even to have entirely non-exchangeable techs) already exists.
This is all very true. The number one priority for making better story driven scenarios (one of the best outputs from our community, IMO) would be more control over interludes.
Unfortunately, it's not immediately apparent how to do this in any kind of flexible manner. I was working on a prototype for calling other executables from AC2 (and got it working), but I haven't worked out a good way to pass data between the AC binary and an external one yet.
Yeah...some stuff (on techs, for instance) could probably be made flexible, but more complicated stuff really couldn't.QuoteI think what Yitzi is getting at is that that capability (even to have entirely non-exchangeable techs) already exists.
It does? Where is the code for it (or how do you set that option in alphax)?
(prototype sharing bad for gameplay)
I seemed to recall that setting a tech as disabled prevented it from being tradeable or stealable. You have me doubting myself, though, and I can't test right now.
In any case, if the tech gave a custom unit you would still be able to bribe it and then build it, though. I don't know how to avoid that unless there's a special ability that prevents that (I think threre's one to make it more difficult?)
I always liked that AC2 gives you the opportunity to trade weapons with other factions.
Sorry, when I said nontradable I should have specified "cannot be attained from one another in any manner". No trading, no probes, no techshare, no techsteal, nothing.
That would be a good solution then. You may have to change a bunch of places to rule out each kind of tech obtainment, but yes, that'd be awesome if you got it to work.
It would be a fairly big project, though.
Whenever I work on this kind of thing, it just makes me think I should re-implement all of the AC engine in a more modern language and open source it.
Hmmmmm.
I started planning it out once. I said "This won't even be very hard.". But you know, Hofstadter's law. Also, laziness.
More seriously, the main problem I was having was working out how to architect the engine to be as generic for modders as possible. I'd like to give that approach a good go, and then when it fails go the agile route and just try to work out how to do the minimum viable prototype thing.
Anyway, this thread is not the place. If you (or anyone else) is interested, though, maybe PM me and we should chat on IRC or mumble sometime. Or even start another thread.
@ete,
Thanks. I've commented in that thread and will follow the project up.
@yitzi
Yes, disable does prevent the tech from being available in the game... Maybe my approach was to make a disabled tech the prerequisite of each of the faction specific ones and then grant the tech through faction.txts exclusively.
I seem to remember that you can trade techs to somebody regardless of prerequisites, though. So either there was some other trick I was using or I didn't solve the problem (or I'm wrong about tech trading and prerequisites).
@yitzi
Yes, disable does prevent the tech from being available in the game... Maybe my approach was to make a disabled tech the prerequisite of each of the faction specific ones and then grant the tech through faction.txts exclusively.
Even so, I think that if disabled in a way that trading is disabled, the tech itself is completely disabled (to the point where it always returns "false" for prerequisites, i.e. if you make it a prerequisite and give it to a faction via the faction .txt, that faction will still be unable to build the thing it's a prerequisite for.)QuoteI seem to remember that you can trade techs to somebody regardless of prerequisites, though. So either there was some other trick I was using or I didn't solve the problem (or I'm wrong about tech trading and prerequisites).
You can trade regardless of prerequisites, but if a prerequisite is Disabled, and the prerequisites aren't (IIRC) Disabled for the first and None for the second, then the tech itself is disabled and can't even be traded, won't show up in the datalinks, always counts as not known even if gained as a starting tech, etc.
The real "white whale" in the room is the cap of 7 factions in the game.
While I have been reminded by various .exe modders and elders on various forums that this is a near impossibility, I think lack of being able to do this hampers the game when compared to modern games quite a bit.
The other white whale is pathing issues with units getting to objectives and use of navy and terraforming. I have seen units bunch up near a coast trying to reach a city across a channel to no avail when there are other paths to get there. However, more modern games like Civ 5 have WTF AI moments as well.
While SMAX's graphics have aged much better than Civ 2, both the UI could be more modern and graphics could be higher fidelity but this is more a taste deal than an absolute game breaker.