Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Bug/Patch Discussion => Topic started by: Yitzi on September 21, 2014, 06:51:00 PM

Title: Is this a bug (creche+MORALE+faction morale)
Post by: Yitzi on September 21, 2014, 06:51:00 PM

If a faction has a negative faction morale modifier, but positive MORALE value, the effect of the positive MORALE will be subtracted from the penalty before it is halved (and if the total is positive or zero it won't be halved).

For example, if a faction has -1 faction morale, but is running Power for +2 MORALE (+1, +1 on defense), and there is a creche in the home base, it will calculate: -1 faction penalty, +1 from MORALE is 0, so the creche has no effect, instead of -1 faction power being halved to 0 (it always rounds toward 0, though I will add an option to change that), and then adding +1 for MORALE.

However, if it is the other way around, with a positive morale modifier and negative MORALE value, then it will halve only the negative part.

So is this a bug?  And if so, which way should it be?

Title: Re: Is this a bug (creche+MORALE+faction morale)
Post by: gwillybj on September 22, 2014, 04:57:48 PM

Seems like #2 is right: It is a bug; the creche should always affect the total modifier (if the total modifier is negative).

Title: Re: Is this a bug (creche+MORALE+faction morale)
Post by: Nexii on September 22, 2014, 07:46:26 PM

I'd say #2 at first thought, that is it should be (SOC morale + FAC morale); then Creche halving any negatives last
 
Assuming by SOC morale you mean the resultant troop morale (i.e. SOC morale would = 1 and not 2, with +2 MORALE from power.  +4 MORALE SE would be +3 SOC morale, etc.).  As I understood it FAC morale was a straight rank per value to your troops.  Do monolith, combat promotions, or facilities play into this?

The rounding has a fair impact; I sort of think a middle road might also make sense on the rounding.  A -1 rank troop would get -1 rank (but +0 on defense) with a Creche.  But that adds even more complexity to an already convoluted system. 

What are your thoughts on a simpler MORALE system?  My main complaint with it is that the MORALE breakpoints are quite uneven.  For example +2 MORALE SE is not much better than +1 MORALE SE. -1 MORALE SE isn't much of a penalty at all once you get Creches (this is an argument pro-rounding up rather than towards 0).
+/- MORALE SE = 1 troop rank per +/-. (changed)
+/- FAC MORALE = 1 troop rank per +/- (same)
facilities = +1 troop rank per (nerfed as MORALE SE gets a boost)
creche = mods morale only when unit at/near home base to minimum rank of Green
options to nerf monoliths (they're a bit crazy good - moreso the heal than promotion)

Title: Re: Is this a bug (creche+MORALE+faction morale)
Post by: Yitzi on September 22, 2014, 10:46:51 PM

Quote from: Nexii on September 22, 2014, 07:46:26 PM

I'd say #2 at first thought, that is it should be (SOC morale + FAC morale); then Creche halving any negatives last
 
Assuming by SOC morale you mean the resultant troop morale (i.e. SOC morale would = 1 and not 2, with +2 MORALE from power.  +4 MORALE SE would be +3 SOC morale, etc.)

That is what I mean.

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As I understood it FAC morale was a straight rank per value to your troops.

Other than being affected by the creche, that is correct.

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Do monolith, combat promotions, or facilities play into this?

No; they are treated as increases to the unit's morale, rather than modifiers, and so are not affected by the creche at all.

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The rounding has a fair impact; I sort of think a middle road might also make sense on the rounding.  A -1 rank troop would get -1 rank (but +0 on defense) with a Creche.  But that adds even more complexity to an already convoluted system. 

And then what if it's already -1, +0 on defense (e.g. a faction with -2 faction morale running Power)?  Better just to give the options of round up, round down, completely negate, or no effect.

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What are your thoughts on a simpler MORALE system?  My main complaint with it is that the MORALE breakpoints are quite uneven.  For example +2 MORALE SE is not much better than +1 MORALE SE. -1 MORALE SE isn't much of a penalty at all once you get Creches (this is an argument pro-rounding up rather than towards 0).

+2 is still somewhat better than +1, and there are always uneven breakpoints.

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+/- MORALE SE = 1 troop rank per +/-. (changed)
+/- FAC MORALE = 1 troop rank per +/- (same)
facilities = +1 troop rank per (nerfed as MORALE SE gets a boost)
creche = mods morale only when unit at/near home base to minimum rank of Green
options to nerf monoliths (they're a bit crazy good - moreso the heal than promotion)

The problem is that allowing +4 morale would be too much, and -4 over -3 would be a really minor breakpoint, and facilities would probably be too weak; I think the current system works fairly well, except for the -1 being irrelevant with creches part.

Title: Re: Is this a bug (creche+MORALE+faction morale)
Post by: Nexii on September 23, 2014, 03:39:24 AM

Yea true.  I will say +2 MORALE SE becomes pretty powerful if you mod armor to be more beneficial.  I play with 50% sensors, 0% inf vs base, and flat unit cost.  With those mods another 25% on defense is significant.  I played a trial game where Spartans just stomped over everyone near them.  Granted I also mod Fundamentalism to +2 MORALE, +1 SUPPORT, -5 RESEARCH.  Once they got 4/3 Elite Infantry+Fund they were terrifying.  Only Hive held them back at a choke, and just barely.