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Author Topic:   Playing styles / your weaknesses?
CClark posted 12-10-98 12:43 PM ET   Click Here to See the Profile for CClark   Click Here to Email CClark  
This has been kind of covered in various other threads, but I don't recall seeing a thread dedicated to the topic (at least not recently).

When I play 4X games, I tend to be a "build up my cities" kind of player. To this end, I spend a fair bit on research.

My biggest weakness is that I never seem to put enough production into military units so my army always tends to be too small when I need to call upon it.

I'm not an overly aggressive person by nature and try to maintain peaceful relations whenever possible. (In MOO2 I always avoided Alliances and just stuck to Non-Aggression Pacts because your allies would invariably ask you to go to war on their behalf.)

This might also explain why I don't like RTS games...I find the base-building more fun and so I always die in the first "rush" sent against me.

The factions I'm most looking forward to playing are the Gaians, PKs and Hive. I'm willing to bet that there's a correlation between favorite factions and playing style.

Old_Guy posted 12-10-98 01:33 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Old_Guy  Click Here to Email Old_Guy     
I'm a very similar type of player to you, CClark. I'm not a strong offensive military player in Civ2 because it's really hard for me not to put some kind of improvement into my cities early in the game. In my recent games I will usually wipe out my nearest neighbor and take a handful of other cities after that, but in the 3 months I've played Civ2, I've never won by conquering the world.

I'm kind of surprised you don't mention Morgan Industries as one of the factions you want to use. They're my choice after The Hive.

Jojo posted 12-10-98 02:21 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Jojo  Click Here to Email Jojo     
Thank God! I thought I was the only perfectionist in here-- or maybe the only one with a serious problem with it!

I'm always trying to stay on top of the research tree in Civ2-- I don't care too much about how much money I have, and try to keep defenses low enough to focus on building libraries, etc. and then the banks, etc. to afford them.

In MOO2, I never could shake the desire to play a "Creative" race. I am research obsessed to the point of my own destruction.

Probably, University of Planet or perhaps the UN Center will serve as my first base. The Gaians may be next, possibly followed by The Hive, Morgan Ind., then a toss up for Jerusalem or the Spartan HQ for last.

Old_Guy posted 12-10-98 02:44 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Old_Guy  Click Here to Email Old_Guy     
Jojo--Actually I feel that cash is very important in Civ2. (Maybe that's why I also like Morgan). I like to have reserve cash for rush building critical Wonders in case another Civ could beat me to it. I also like to incite revolts in key cities and that takes LOTS of cash.

This is why Adam Smith is one of my favorite Wonders. This allows me to improve the heck out of the Adam Smith city while simultaneously adding to my cash pool. The Colossus-Harbor combo is also very nice in the early to mid game.

Jojo posted 12-10-98 02:49 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Jojo  Click Here to Email Jojo     
Adam Smith is definitely one of the ones I go for-- along with Bach's Cathedral and Michelangelo's-- but I get my rush when I attack pikemen or phalanxes with cavalry....
Kedryn posted 12-10-98 03:02 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Kedryn  Click Here to Email Kedryn     
My weaknesses would definitely be in number of units and the fact that I sometimes expand too slowly. I definitely fall under "rational peaceful perfectionist". I've countered some of this weakness in Civ2 by forcing myself (and this ain't easy for me) to keep my cities building settlers and military units until I have 7 or so cities. Then I'll "perfectionise" the first two of those while having the last 5 build more units and settlers. After that, I'll consolidate what I have, then expand, then consolidate, and expand some more. After I've got 50+ cities, I get really tired of moving settlers around and moving units to fortresses on my borders and changing what cities will build... so I quit the game and start a new one.
Old_Guy posted 12-10-98 03:17 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Old_Guy  Click Here to Email Old_Guy     
I should also mention that for us non-military city-enhancement types, that at least for me I often have a hard time defending a large empire. I will wise up and dedicate some cities solely to producing units, but nevertheless I will sometimes lose some cities to invaders if I have a lot of cities to maintain. You have to be careful about building up that infrastructure because nothing stinks more than losing one of your cities that is right in the middle of a main railroad junction!

BTW, I heard that in Civ2 Gold Multiplayer, the Wonders like Great Wall and UN do NOT force other players to negotiate cease fires or peace. That seems absolutely absurd to me. I would think that you would be forced into a Republic-type of government where your Senate would force you to sign a cease-fire or peace treaty. I think if you always send away the emissary it would be OK, but the second you talk to him, you should be forced to sign something.

Jojo posted 12-10-98 06:04 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Jojo  Click Here to Email Jojo     
Hmm, if the UN is altered like that, I'd say your best bet then it to forget about it and shoot for the Statue of Liberty-- that way, you could switch to and from Communism and Democracy (which I like to do) as it suits your military needs....
DHE_X2 posted 12-10-98 06:14 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for DHE_X2  Click Here to Email DHE_X2     
I'm a kinda wierd player. First off, I make a rush to get all the early advancements, so I can build all of the early wonders. Then I make a rush for economics to get Adam Smith's. After I build that, I can pretty well forget about money until the late game. I then rush for invention and democracy. By this time i've built all off the renaissance wonders, and a few industrial ones. By now, I'm ahead in science like hell, and completely max out a group of ten cities( more if on a continent), and develop them to 20+ size. Once I've discovered everything, I switch to fundamentalism, rake in the cash, and buy my spaceship in a few turns. An alternative to this is to raise an army and beat the hell out of my opponent, but I opt for the peaceful solution mostly.
Most games I play are on Warlord-Prince level, 7 civs, large map, 4 billion years, large land mass, cool, wet climate, and I play as Odysseus of the Greeks.
don't really care, eh?

Due to my peaceful, economic type style, I'm probably going to go w/ Morgan or the PKs.

Hothram Upravda posted 12-10-98 06:15 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Hothram Upravda  Click Here to Email Hothram Upravda     
I sometimes over expand. Makeing it hard to defend my huge empire. I also sometimes mico-manage to much decreasing the total amounts of military units i have.

I also sometimes just forget to make enough Caravans to create a large Economy. Most of the time the caravans i do make are used to create Wonders as quickly as possible.

So far my Favorite Factions are.

Peacekeepers.
Hive.
and just to be different. Jerusalem.
Altough personaly i think i am going to probibly use a Custom Faction.

I also focus on Science a little to much but as i always hated to be a Democracy i was never as focused on it as some people I know .

Hothram Upravda
TB

Gord McLeod posted 12-10-98 06:56 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Gord McLeod  Click Here to Email Gord McLeod     
My weaknesses tend to be similar to those expressed here - I concentrate heavily on civ improvement, wonders, and especially technology. I try and get enough money to build wonders and libraries and universities, and tend to play an isolationist strategy so that my very weak military doesn't harm me so much. I die early in the game, or I become so advanced that other civs have trouble touching me...

I'll almost certainly play a custom faction most of the time... and it will probably look a great deal like the University of Planet. In fact, if SMAC makes us play with a max of 7 factions, so that custom factions require us to eliminate another faction from the game, I'll probably replace the Spartans with my own UoP-style faction so that I don't have to deal with Santiago at all.

DHE_X2 posted 12-10-98 06:59 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for DHE_X2  Click Here to Email DHE_X2     
Kind of like replacing the zulus or carthagians, eh?
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 12-10-98 07:07 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey  Click Here to Email Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey     
Don't you people see! This is all an evil plot so CClark can learn are weaknesses & exploit them in multi-player!

Anyway, my weakness is I tend to become quite isolationist. I build a few cities, & defend them well. Unfortunately, my research falls, & people in other civs run over my defenses with advanced troops. But, in my ever increasing race for perfection, I intend to correct this flaw when I play in SMAC.

Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH

Jojo posted 12-10-98 07:32 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Jojo  Click Here to Email Jojo     
Ah, but was CClark setting us up by showing a predilection towards perfection-- is the real CClark an aggressive militarist?
Imran Siddiqui posted 12-10-98 08:27 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Imran Siddiqui  Click Here to Email Imran Siddiqui     
Oh, so maybe I shouldn't be saying this, but I'm a base-builder as well, however, with Morgan Industries, I can buy an army, or an alliance with another faction!! HAHA!!

Imran Siddiqui
Morganman

Brother Greg posted 12-10-98 08:37 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Brother Greg  Click Here to Email Brother Greg     
Heh, heh.

I tend to have the same flaw, CClark. I tend to improve my cities to the exclusion of military. It was only recently that I suddenly realised that hey, the difference between 5 and 6 shields in production really wasn't that bad, therefore one more unit wouldn't hurt.

I used to simply have one Phalanx in each city, with the odd attacking unit thrown in, and definately City Walls everywhere. If a city started to be attacked, then I would think about another defensive or offensive unit. but basically my build queue for a new city is:

Defensive Unit
Settlers (for new city)
Settlers (for new city)
Temple/Library (depending on if I have enough wonders to keep them happy for a while)
Settlers (for terrain improvements)
Library/Temple
City Walls
Marketplace
Aqueduct
University
Bank
And so on.

My first city I vary in that I only build one settler unit to found new cities, then after building a temple, I build the Pyramids (or try and be first to do so). My first city tends to be my "wonders" city, until I find a really good site, with perhaps coal in some hills, then it becomes that one. I once also had a city with three or four whale units, so I used that instead.

For Science, I get Bronze Working first, after which I race to Masonry. Then it is a mad rush to get The Republic, at which point I change governments for the first time. Then rush to Invention, then democracy. I go for max science, with enough taxes to keep me in surplus. I start off with no luxuries, and only really put them up when I reach the stage where I start building aqueducts, which is normally just after I build Michaelangelo's Chappel.

I can see the flaw in this, esp after getting some feedback from others. Obviously whacking luxuries up real high for a couple of turns would be a better way, even if I sat on size 8 cities for quite a while.

Most important wonders I find are:
Michaelangelo's Chappel
Leonardo's Workshop
Adam Smith's Trading Company
Bach's Cathedral
Statue of Liberty
Pyramids (v useful early on)
and just about all of the later Wonders, though Esp Woman's Suffrage and the UN.

I also find Shakespeare's Theatre useful, as it allows a Democracy to build a heap of military units in that city. I tend to build it in a city with heaps of shield production, and use that city to base my "out of city" army in.

And it is funny that in 4 years or more of playing the game, I never got out of that playing style. For four years I NEVER used the governments of Fundamentalism or Communism. I have started experimenting recently though, and it is certainly a different experience.

Anyway, enough babbling...

Old_Guy posted 12-10-98 09:04 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Old_Guy  Click Here to Email Old_Guy     
Ironically, I've been terrible at using Republic and Democracy in Civ2. I usually go with Communism because it has good production and no corruption (hmm...doesn't seem to always work that way in the RW, but I digress). However, I do tend to go for Michaelangelo's so maybe I'll get better at actually making my people happy. (Gosh do I sound destined to be a Hive player or what?)

BTW, I used to think the Great Library was the way to go, but lately I've decided to be really good friends with one Civ (to trade techs) and then use diplomats/spies to get techs from my enemies. Later in the game I like to get UN, so I don't steal but by then the GL is usually obsolete anyways.

Another thing is that while I tend to do well in the early to mid part of the game in Civ2, I really tend to fizzle out when Flight gets around. I need to get better at using Paratroopers, Bombers and such. Unfortunately, I'm more of a ground assault kind of guy. Go Tanks!!!

CClark posted 12-10-98 11:16 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for CClark  Click Here to Email CClark     
No, this wasn't a plot to get to know your weaknesses! If it was, I wouldn't have stated how I play. Kind of interesting to see that so far the bulk of respondants are also city perfectionists who leave the military to wallow in mediocrity.

I was half expecting to see a bunch of people posting that they alternate between Mil unit, settler, Mil unit, city improvement, repeat.

Notice that none of the really vocal Spartans have posted here though...

Shining1 posted 12-10-98 11:27 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Shining1  Click Here to Email Shining1     
Important wonders:
Pyramids
Michealangelo
Leonardo
Adam Smith's
United Nations
Seti

I also like to build up my cities, though with specific aims in mind, like Science, trade, military (I alway get Newton's in my top trade city, and add a library, University, and as many Scientists as is practical to it. Averages about 200 science, which is approximately half of my total). If I get the chance I also like to indulge in an early military campaign. The tech/money/territory rewards are usually well worth it.

I also like to have a very strong navy, to the detriment of my land forces, which I find are only important when you can build howiters and mobile infantry (although Armour is great fun if you get it first ). Cruisers are very useful, as they bypass city walls and cause little population loss. I love Battleships. But so do enemy missiles.
(tip: load up a carrier with aircraft and missiles and include an Aegis in the same square).

I also prioritise trade routes, especially overseas ones (record 344 gold payment on deity). A very useful hack is to set the Caravans and Freight to 'All As Road' - otherwise movement takes too long. And the lack of any trading ships irritates me...


B.G: 4 years? The game only came out in 1996...

Shining1 posted 12-10-98 11:32 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Shining1  Click Here to Email Shining1     
Oh, and my favourite government is republic, going to communism when I finally go to war against everyone (around 1900-1950). You NEED that extra trade in the middle stages just to keep your technology afloat. It also allows much bigger cities than Monarchy, due to the happiness limits, which you can easily overcome with the extra money from Republic.
Octopus posted 12-11-98 12:00 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Octopus  Click Here to Email Octopus     
I also tend to overemphasize my city building and underemphasize my military. I also dislike micromanagement, so I rarely expand my empire as much as I should (I'd have to manage more cities!). I think the Hive is going to suit my play style well, because their defensive and production bonuses should be most useful in the early and mid game (respectively) which are the most fun times, in my opinion.
Brother Greg posted 12-11-98 01:08 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Brother Greg  Click Here to Email Brother Greg     
S1: I thought it was out in '95. Oh well.
Imran Siddiqui posted 12-11-98 01:37 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Imran Siddiqui  Click Here to Email Imran Siddiqui     
No, it was out in 1996. I got it the first day: March 15th (Ides of March, cool, no). What I remember is that I got this limited edition poster, with the Civ2 design on it with Sid Meier's signature (I belive it to be a fake). Anyway, it was definetly 1996.

Imran Siddiqui
Civ enthusiaist

Brother Greg posted 12-11-98 02:17 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Brother Greg  Click Here to Email Brother Greg     
Oh well, nearly three years then.

Bloody pedants.

Saras posted 12-11-98 04:48 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Saras  Click Here to Email Saras     
Never played civ2, cause when it came out, our house was robbed and the computer stolen

But on civ1 i used to go for Emperor level and then start a settlers-catapult- settlers -chariot-settlers-phalanx - navy - craze. I usually conquered the world in 1400-1500.

Saras posted 12-11-98 04:51 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Saras  Click Here to Email Saras     
Oh, I guess that makes me a Spartan...
Saras posted 12-11-98 04:56 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Saras  Click Here to Email Saras     
Otherwise, I would build some 15 20+size cities, five carriers with 7 bombers and one fighter each, five battleships, some cruisers, a couple of transports, six armor, eight artillery, two riflemen/mech.inf and conquer the world in about 3 turns.

I guess that makes me a Spartan, too...

MikeH II posted 12-11-98 09:23 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for MikeH II  Click Here to Email MikeH II     
I only hadn't posted here because I hadn't seen it. Did you really think the Spartans would tell everyone their weaknesses? Thanks for telling us yours though they will come in handy in multiplayer.
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 12-11-98 06:43 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey  Click Here to Email Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey     
"Notice, none of the really vocal Spartans have posted here!'

And umm, who were you responding to in that first paragraph in that post??

Like Mike said, Spartans don't reveal their weaknesses. Their only weakness is killing too many people!

Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH

Imran Siddiqui posted 12-11-98 07:58 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Imran Siddiqui  Click Here to Email Imran Siddiqui     
How do you know, that that is actually my weakness. As YYYH does know, I am skilled in the art of politics. I might be fibbing, or I might be not .

Imran Siddiqui
Secrets Galore!!

Bokonon posted 12-11-98 09:51 PM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Bokonon  Click Here to Email Bokonon     
Actually, wouldn't a smart Spartan come in here and make up something believeable, in order to confuse the opposition, and thereby increasing chances of survival? Food for Thought.

-Bok

CClark posted 12-12-98 12:52 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for CClark  Click Here to Email CClark     
Nah, the Spartans are just doing what they do best: hiding. Let's face it, they're really the world's biggest cowards. I mean, look at Santiago, she skulks about the ship, constantly running away from people. When she finally gets up enough guts to take some action, she gets caught by Deirdre of all people!

Spartans are just paranoid cowards. They come by it honestly though. Just look at teh "survivalists" in Waco and other places. They build big forts and hole up. When the FBI comes knocking, they get completely paranoid. I figure the Spartans, even with military advantages, will be the easiest faction to wipe out. (Notice in the some of the screenshots the only faction missing was always the Spartans!)

[Now, if that doesn't get some hackles up... ]

Jimbo2 posted 12-12-98 12:59 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for Jimbo2  Click Here to Email Jimbo2     
Oh, YYYH is here, ignore my post then. Um, I'm a perfectionist/expantionist. I expand, but I'm reluctant to go to war. Frankly, I simply dedicate a city or two to unit production and keeps the invaders off my back.
MikeH II posted 12-12-98 06:50 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for MikeH II  Click Here to Email MikeH II     
CClark: That's what they WANT you to think. Never underestimate us.
DHE_X2 posted 12-13-98 01:00 AM ET     Click Here to See the Profile for DHE_X2  Click Here to Email DHE_X2     
I love the tactic where you place Shakespeare's theater in a city and use it soley for unit production. If I have enough shields produced in that city, I can construct my entire army/navy/airforce there and send them off to war without suffering under Democracy.
Question, what do the tithes produced by the theater equal out to in a 20+ city under fundamentalism?

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