Did Anyone else find Deity tough in Civ2?????????

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Author Topic:   Did Anyone else find Deity tough in Civ2?????????

chrisk posted 12-08-98 03:52 PM ET
Just wondering if I suck or I was like everyone else...
Frank Moore posted 12-08-98 04:01 PM ET
I have never been able to win on deity level. even by "cheating" to get good stuff on huts. many people posting here said that they beat it almost all the time. I don't believe them. The computer opponents get too many bonuses to beat them with any kind of consistency. I do however win on emporer level more than half the time, which i think is pretty damn good!
Thue posted 12-08-98 04:32 PM ET
hrm hrm
I've won it.
But I can't do it every time. What I do is expand madly at first and hope nobody comes for a little while (or they are peacefull...)
a wellplaced wonder (for happines or Great library (and then spend no more for science))
Fundamentalism is great for deity, especially with great libery, as there is no disorder.
needless to say, this require sa little luck as well.
Brother Greg posted 12-08-98 06:56 PM ET
I never really got above beating "King" about 90% of the time. Funny, but I never really played Diety or even Emperor too much.
chrisk posted 12-08-98 07:47 PM ET
ahhh so the truth comes out! All of us "so called" die hard Sid Meier game fans, cannot even beat his toughest test! I feel much better now, knowing that Iam no the only one.

????????????????Chrisk???????????????
Steel_Dragon posted 12-08-98 07:52 PM ET
With a great land mass, great use of huts, and some luck I spank it once. But with all the bonuses(cheats) the AI gets it is near impossiable to win. But a stalemate until nuclear war is the norm for me. And then year after year of global warming ruins the game.
Shining1 posted 12-08-98 09:03 PM ET
<Arrogant Mode>
Huh huh huh. Yes, its beatable, if you use the right strategies. One of the key points is not to go too overboard on any one aspect, especially technology, as the A.I gets cheats to catchup.
Be aggressive, but keep your focus very general (Explore, Expand, Discover, Conquer). Pouring all your resources into any single area is a sure recipe for disaster. I usually find myself taking two to three minutes for each turn after the first five, and on average ten minutes for the later game turns. You have to think very hard and have a plan, or you will fail.
<Arrogant mode off>
I agree, Deity with a full six opponents is very difficult to beat within the timespan. Try playing against two or three opponents on a medium map.
I find four opponents on Deity is the most fun you can have with Civilisation. Above all, the trick is to play SLOWLY. If you find yourself just clicking through all the messages, moving the units and ending your turn, its a fair bet you will end up in a bad position.
Get a strong Navy early, as the A.I is stupid at sea, and always have one or two explorers in play. You cannot be too careful about placing your cities, and it pays to build settlers to develope the terrain early - especially roads for trade.
Brother Greg posted 12-08-98 10:41 PM ET
Which reminds me of one thing that I REALLY hope - that SMAC doesn't use cheats to beat you. Even on King level, the opposing Factions only need to produce 4/5 of the shields to build a unit, which really sucks.
I want to see SMAC's AI so well written that it won't need to use cheats to beat you at Diety level. There was a big thread about this about 8-9 months ago, and everyone agreed that cheats were the biggest problem with CIV II at higher levels.
Shining1 posted 12-08-98 10:51 PM ET
Hopefully Brian's experience at CivII will translate into better A.I for SMAC. By all accounts, the SMAC A.I will be one of the best ever, on a par with Half-life and the like.
Personally, I don't find the cheats too irritating, especially as it forced you to concentrate on areas you would otherwise neglect (such as finance and military in my case).
The really irritating thing about higher levels in CivII was the crippled diplomacy menus - especially deity, which had severely limited options in the withdraw troops area. You also couldn't talk to the computer opponents as often as you could before.
Deity level is okay as A.I goes, but I find if I play on any level below emperor the game just becomes too easy to win, especially by military conquest.
*sigh*. It was good for it's time, but I hope SMAC will be a hell of a lot better.
Hothram Upravda posted 12-09-98 12:02 AM ET
Sigh...
Closest i ever got was a tie. I could not win it, but the other nations could not kill me.......
neather side could win... was extremly annoying
Hothram Upravda
TB
Frank Moore posted 12-09-98 08:55 AM ET
I agree with you Greg, I really hope that the AI does not have to resort to cheats at the higher skill levels. I think that this is indicative of an underdeveloped AI in Civ2. I am very eager to put the AI in SMAC through its paces to see how much improved it is over Civ2.
ggeorge posted 12-09-98 03:53 PM ET
I usually play at emperor level and win 90% of the time. Always with space race and scores between 160%-185%.
I played one single game at deity level. I was lucky enough to begin near a river and had a good starting.
I managed a marginal win but I replayed years
after 1900 to try several strategies.
The winning one was to concentrate in democracy (the AI bribes like hell...) and avoid conflicts at all costs.
A good alliance is also crusial (free bonuses ...). But I didn't really enjoyed that game.
I still play at emperor level.
PS. Never build 'Manhatan Project'. With peace and the UN the AI usually never builds it too.
DHE_X2 posted 12-09-98 09:11 PM ET
My first game after conquering chieftan level was on Diety. Slight mistake there. Needless to say, with 7 civs on a large map, I was dead before 1000bc.
Shining1 posted 12-09-98 10:34 PM ET
You definitely have to micro-manage very carefully, especially at the start, when playing deity. If you get bad terrain, you also have a problem, although these games are naturally more satisfying to win.
Examples of micromanagement:
* Using money to produce units earlier - very important at the early stages of the game, allowing you to expand earlier and faster.
* Optimising city production - units are built on a per turn basis, so having more shields is sometimes NOT an advantage.
Ex: A pikeman can be built in 4 turns with 5 OR 6 shields, as the extra production is wasted. Likewise it takes 3 turns with 7, 8 or 9 shields. In these cases, you need to get the lowest number of shields, and use the extra production to make food or trade (depending upon requirements or the available terrain).
Other tips:
* Spend money often - being rich solves so many problems. You get units faster through buying them instead of producing them, you can capture strongpoints intact, and bribe allies and enemies when you would have had to fight or steal.
* Be ruthless - sometimes, especially early on, it pays to hold out for gifts or tribute from hostile civs, rather than offering peace straight away. The A.I can be extremely generous in exchange for you friendship.
SmartFart posted 12-09-98 11:16 PM ET
here is couple of hints to win deity level
1st...choose 'start on premade world'
2nd...choose aztecs cuz of their great strategic starting point between 2 continents
3rd...get rid of siouxes and americans as fast as ya can...that leaves only you on great land mass of northern and southern america
4th...explore the world with military units with 2 mp (charriot if possible) and enter in the village with your 1st mp (cuz of darn barbarians)
5th...trireme around great land complex of asia,europe and africa is very useful(with one of 2mp military unit of course)
6th...here is my list of 1st couple of wonders 1. pyramids
2. oracle
3. the great lybrary
4. sun tzus war academy
5. magellans expeditions and so on
7th...expand
8th...expand
9th...expand
i get every square in both of america used by city...even northern regions...it will be very important to have as much cities as ya can b4 final conquer starts
10th...get yer goverment to democracy as soon as you can...when ya've cities size 30 or more with woman suffrage and couple of happiness wonders you can send 10-15 units out without city riot
here is my tls rate:
despotism.....5t 0l 5s
monarchy......5t 0l 5s
republic......4t 2l 4s
democracy.....4t 3l 3s
i never used any other type of goverment
and when i reach democracy thats it
11th...its lil bit difficult to being in war all the time under democracy,but there is a hint...as you know,senate can signed cease fire without your permission,if that happened,go to the other nation which is in war with your opponent and talk to them...they'll offering you to declare war to them again
there are alot of other hints like when you immediately need battleship and it costs 3200,go buy cheapest unit,than next to the cheapest,and so on until you reach battleship
...it will cost you much cheaper than 3200 then
wow...i really have loud mouth
hope ya'll find sumthin useful here
sorry 4 my english
ophidity
Izer posted 12-10-98 10:37 AM ET
My "Secret" to beating the A.I. on deity is Luxuries. They are a hugely ignored part of the game. I start on a customised, cool, arid, mixed large map. That way I usually end up on my very own grassland Isle. I then go straight for the Republic while exspanding like crasy. I switch to Republic when it comes (maintaning order with luxuries) research temples and buy them. Once the island is full I build lots of roads and get my cities up to size 3 Then I throw a Party
which usually gets them to size 5 in 3 turns.
I then turn luxuries to the minimum and buy a
happiness wonder. Throw another party and Pow
all my cities are size 8. Once you�ve got Michelangelo you can build aqueducts and repeat. With this sort of population base winning is much easier. I usually go for the space race. Trying to defeat the A.I. by warfare gets really tedious. Its doable but
involves a lot of micromanaging. My favorite
metod is a carrier group with 8 stealth bombers, a AEGIS or two + a battleship (ships
cover bombers. Bomber destroy defences. Defend with loads of Mech Inf.
Frank Moore posted 12-10-98 12:13 PM ET
Hey Izer,
That's an awful lot of buying stuff. Where did you get all this money, keeping in mind that luxuries are turned up? Also if you have already discovered the Republic doesn't that mean you have already discovered Ceremonial Burial (which lets you build temples)? The other question I have is how do you keep your cities content in the early game while expanding at the same time? I believe that afetr cities get to size 2 they need a military unit in them or they go into disorder. Of course it is hard to build military units if you are "expanding like mad" i.e. building settlers.
Izer posted 12-11-98 02:32 PM ET
No with luck you get the Republic as science number 5. The only 4 nessesary prerequesites are alphabet, writing, code of laws & literacy. The money are no problem, the republic was designed to make money, when buying temples I keep luxuries as low as they�ll go without disorder and set science to 0%. Since I don�t have any structures to maintain I�ll usually be making quite a lot.
I keep my cities happy in the initial expansion phase by building militias and keeping them small. The militias gets dispanded When The Revolution Comes, and help getting the temples built. The really vital wonders for this strategy are the oracle and michelangelos chapel, if I don�t get them, the second and third parties don�t work very well and most of the advantage goes out the window. Harbors are really nice too as they�ll allow you to skip a lot of roadbuilding.
Roland posted 12-14-98 09:15 AM ET
Often neglected, but crucial: trade routes.
And don't forget the lovely "we love..." days in rep/dem. Use them for some turns, make sure as many cities as posssible celebrate (darn micromanagement), and reap the benefits...
DJ RRebel posted 12-15-98 04:16 PM ET
Great thread !!!
For those of you didn't know, Deity level was actually created for expert Civ players to win a small percentage of the time !!!
If you can't beat it, it's ok ... your not supposed to unless you get really lucky!!!
Because as good as you are, luck is still the biggest factor in most games !!!
Your starting point being the most critical, then it would be huts and enemy placement !!!
There are so many factors involved ... the key is to actually enjoy the game for the challenge it presents to you !!!
But as pointed out earlier, micro management is a must, you must be brutally efficient !!!
BG >>> I agree with you on the cheats, I found it ridiculous when I found out with my spies the a size 5 or 6 city was supporting 10 units, and had 90% of possible city improvement !!!
Djenerator posted 12-15-98 07:36 PM ET
I've won on deity, both by conquering and sending up my spaceship. My favorite Civ 2 story is when, after launching my spaceship, I followed standard Civ procedure and built the Manhattan Project for the extra points. Imagine my chagrin (and the stream of obscenities) when, in the next turn, Abe Lincoln nuked my capitol, captured it with a paratrooper, and crashed my spaceship. I never built the Manhattan Project again unless I had SDI defense and my ship was about to land.
I can't always win on Diety, which is what makes the game still a challenge. Some of my favorite tactics:
*Expand. Conquer. Show no mercy. Who cares about reputation when you've squashed your closest neighbors and have a nice continent to yourself?
*Start with at least 20% allocated to luxuries, and discover monarchy ASAP.
*Settlers are crucial to improving and expanding.
*God bless Leonardo's Workshop.
*Don't be afraid to start building three (or more) of the same Wonders...by the time you near completion, you'll have discovered new techs and will be able to transfer the accumulated production to other wonders.
Anyone played Civ 2 mulitplayer? What's the word?
Djen
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Author	Topic: Did Anyone else find Deity tough in Civ2?????????
chrisk	posted 12-08-98 03:52 PM ET Just wondering if I suck or I was like everyone else...
Frank Moore	posted 12-08-98 04:01 PM ET I have never been able to win on deity level. even by "cheating" to get good stuff on huts. many people posting here said that they beat it almost all the time. I don't believe them. The computer opponents get too many bonuses to beat them with any kind of consistency. I do however win on emporer level more than half the time, which i think is pretty damn good!
Thue	posted 12-08-98 04:32 PM ET hrm hrm I've won it. But I can't do it every time. What I do is expand madly at first and hope nobody comes for a little while (or they are peacefull...) a wellplaced wonder (for happines or Great library (and then spend no more for science)) Fundamentalism is great for deity, especially with great libery, as there is no disorder. needless to say, this require sa little luck as well.
Brother Greg	posted 12-08-98 06:56 PM ET I never really got above beating "King" about 90% of the time. Funny, but I never really played Diety or even Emperor too much.
chrisk	posted 12-08-98 07:47 PM ET ahhh so the truth comes out! All of us "so called" die hard Sid Meier game fans, cannot even beat his toughest test! I feel much better now, knowing that Iam no the only one. ????????????????Chrisk???????????????
Steel_Dragon	posted 12-08-98 07:52 PM ET With a great land mass, great use of huts, and some luck I spank it once. But with all the bonuses(cheats) the AI gets it is near impossiable to win. But a stalemate until nuclear war is the norm for me. And then year after year of global warming ruins the game.
Shining1	posted 12-08-98 09:03 PM ET <Arrogant Mode> Huh huh huh. Yes, its beatable, if you use the right strategies. One of the key points is not to go too overboard on any one aspect, especially technology, as the A.I gets cheats to catchup. Be aggressive, but keep your focus very general (Explore, Expand, Discover, Conquer). Pouring all your resources into any single area is a sure recipe for disaster. I usually find myself taking two to three minutes for each turn after the first five, and on average ten minutes for the later game turns. You have to think very hard and have a plan, or you will fail. <Arrogant mode off> I agree, Deity with a full six opponents is very difficult to beat within the timespan. Try playing against two or three opponents on a medium map. I find four opponents on Deity is the most fun you can have with Civilisation. Above all, the trick is to play SLOWLY. If you find yourself just clicking through all the messages, moving the units and ending your turn, its a fair bet you will end up in a bad position. Get a strong Navy early, as the A.I is stupid at sea, and always have one or two explorers in play. You cannot be too careful about placing your cities, and it pays to build settlers to develope the terrain early - especially roads for trade.
Brother Greg	posted 12-08-98 10:41 PM ET Which reminds me of one thing that I REALLY hope - that SMAC doesn't use cheats to beat you. Even on King level, the opposing Factions only need to produce 4/5 of the shields to build a unit, which really sucks. I want to see SMAC's AI so well written that it won't need to use cheats to beat you at Diety level. There was a big thread about this about 8-9 months ago, and everyone agreed that cheats were the biggest problem with CIV II at higher levels.
Shining1	posted 12-08-98 10:51 PM ET Hopefully Brian's experience at CivII will translate into better A.I for SMAC. By all accounts, the SMAC A.I will be one of the best ever, on a par with Half-life and the like. Personally, I don't find the cheats too irritating, especially as it forced you to concentrate on areas you would otherwise neglect (such as finance and military in my case). The really irritating thing about higher levels in CivII was the crippled diplomacy menus - especially deity, which had severely limited options in the withdraw troops area. You also couldn't talk to the computer opponents as often as you could before. Deity level is okay as A.I goes, but I find if I play on any level below emperor the game just becomes too easy to win, especially by military conquest. sigh. It was good for it's time, but I hope SMAC will be a hell of a lot better.
Hothram Upravda	posted 12-09-98 12:02 AM ET Sigh... Closest i ever got was a tie. I could not win it, but the other nations could not kill me....... neather side could win... was extremly annoying Hothram Upravda TB
Frank Moore	posted 12-09-98 08:55 AM ET I agree with you Greg, I really hope that the AI does not have to resort to cheats at the higher skill levels. I think that this is indicative of an underdeveloped AI in Civ2. I am very eager to put the AI in SMAC through its paces to see how much improved it is over Civ2.
ggeorge	posted 12-09-98 03:53 PM ET I usually play at emperor level and win 90% of the time. Always with space race and scores between 160%-185%. I played one single game at deity level. I was lucky enough to begin near a river and had a good starting. I managed a marginal win but I replayed years after 1900 to try several strategies. The winning one was to concentrate in democracy (the AI bribes like hell...) and avoid conflicts at all costs. A good alliance is also crusial (free bonuses ...). But I didn't really enjoyed that game. I still play at emperor level. PS. Never build 'Manhatan Project'. With peace and the UN the AI usually never builds it too.
DHE_X2	posted 12-09-98 09:11 PM ET My first game after conquering chieftan level was on Diety. Slight mistake there. Needless to say, with 7 civs on a large map, I was dead before 1000bc.
Shining1	posted 12-09-98 10:34 PM ET You definitely have to micro-manage very carefully, especially at the start, when playing deity. If you get bad terrain, you also have a problem, although these games are naturally more satisfying to win. Examples of micromanagement: * Using money to produce units earlier - very important at the early stages of the game, allowing you to expand earlier and faster. * Optimising city production - units are built on a per turn basis, so having more shields is sometimes NOT an advantage. Ex: A pikeman can be built in 4 turns with 5 OR 6 shields, as the extra production is wasted. Likewise it takes 3 turns with 7, 8 or 9 shields. In these cases, you need to get the lowest number of shields, and use the extra production to make food or trade (depending upon requirements or the available terrain). Other tips: * Spend money often - being rich solves so many problems. You get units faster through buying them instead of producing them, you can capture strongpoints intact, and bribe allies and enemies when you would have had to fight or steal. * Be ruthless - sometimes, especially early on, it pays to hold out for gifts or tribute from hostile civs, rather than offering peace straight away. The A.I can be extremely generous in exchange for you friendship.
SmartFart	posted 12-09-98 11:16 PM ET here is couple of hints to win deity level 1st...choose 'start on premade world' 2nd...choose aztecs cuz of their great strategic starting point between 2 continents 3rd...get rid of siouxes and americans as fast as ya can...that leaves only you on great land mass of northern and southern america 4th...explore the world with military units with 2 mp (charriot if possible) and enter in the village with your 1st mp (cuz of darn barbarians) 5th...trireme around great land complex of asia,europe and africa is very useful(with one of 2mp military unit of course) 6th...here is my list of 1st couple of wonders 1. pyramids 2. oracle 3. the great lybrary 4. sun tzus war academy 5. magellans expeditions and so on 7th...expand 8th...expand 9th...expand i get every square in both of america used by city...even northern regions...it will be very important to have as much cities as ya can b4 final conquer starts 10th...get yer goverment to democracy as soon as you can...when ya've cities size 30 or more with woman suffrage and couple of happiness wonders you can send 10-15 units out without city riot here is my tls rate: despotism.....5t 0l 5s monarchy......5t 0l 5s republic......4t 2l 4s democracy.....4t 3l 3s i never used any other type of goverment and when i reach democracy thats it 11th...its lil bit difficult to being in war all the time under democracy,but there is a hint...as you know,senate can signed cease fire without your permission,if that happened,go to the other nation which is in war with your opponent and talk to them...they'll offering you to declare war to them again there are alot of other hints like when you immediately need battleship and it costs 3200,go buy cheapest unit,than next to the cheapest,and so on until you reach battleship ...it will cost you much cheaper than 3200 then wow...i really have loud mouth hope ya'll find sumthin useful here sorry 4 my english ophidity
Izer	posted 12-10-98 10:37 AM ET My "Secret" to beating the A.I. on deity is Luxuries. They are a hugely ignored part of the game. I start on a customised, cool, arid, mixed large map. That way I usually end up on my very own grassland Isle. I then go straight for the Republic while exspanding like crasy. I switch to Republic when it comes (maintaning order with luxuries) research temples and buy them. Once the island is full I build lots of roads and get my cities up to size 3 Then I throw a Party which usually gets them to size 5 in 3 turns. I then turn luxuries to the minimum and buy a happiness wonder. Throw another party and Pow all my cities are size 8. Once you�ve got Michelangelo you can build aqueducts and repeat. With this sort of population base winning is much easier. I usually go for the space race. Trying to defeat the A.I. by warfare gets really tedious. Its doable but involves a lot of micromanaging. My favorite metod is a carrier group with 8 stealth bombers, a AEGIS or two + a battleship (ships cover bombers. Bomber destroy defences. Defend with loads of Mech Inf.
Frank Moore	posted 12-10-98 12:13 PM ET Hey Izer, That's an awful lot of buying stuff. Where did you get all this money, keeping in mind that luxuries are turned up? Also if you have already discovered the Republic doesn't that mean you have already discovered Ceremonial Burial (which lets you build temples)? The other question I have is how do you keep your cities content in the early game while expanding at the same time? I believe that afetr cities get to size 2 they need a military unit in them or they go into disorder. Of course it is hard to build military units if you are "expanding like mad" i.e. building settlers.
Izer	posted 12-11-98 02:32 PM ET No with luck you get the Republic as science number 5. The only 4 nessesary prerequesites are alphabet, writing, code of laws & literacy. The money are no problem, the republic was designed to make money, when buying temples I keep luxuries as low as they�ll go without disorder and set science to 0%. Since I don�t have any structures to maintain I�ll usually be making quite a lot. I keep my cities happy in the initial expansion phase by building militias and keeping them small. The militias gets dispanded When The Revolution Comes, and help getting the temples built. The really vital wonders for this strategy are the oracle and michelangelos chapel, if I don�t get them, the second and third parties don�t work very well and most of the advantage goes out the window. Harbors are really nice too as they�ll allow you to skip a lot of roadbuilding.
Roland	posted 12-14-98 09:15 AM ET Often neglected, but crucial: trade routes. And don't forget the lovely "we love..." days in rep/dem. Use them for some turns, make sure as many cities as posssible celebrate (darn micromanagement), and reap the benefits...
DJ RRebel	posted 12-15-98 04:16 PM ET Great thread !!! For those of you didn't know, Deity level was actually created for expert Civ players to win a small percentage of the time !!! If you can't beat it, it's ok ... your not supposed to unless you get really lucky!!! Because as good as you are, luck is still the biggest factor in most games !!! Your starting point being the most critical, then it would be huts and enemy placement !!! There are so many factors involved ... the key is to actually enjoy the game for the challenge it presents to you !!! But as pointed out earlier, micro management is a must, you must be brutally efficient !!! BG >>> I agree with you on the cheats, I found it ridiculous when I found out with my spies the a size 5 or 6 city was supporting 10 units, and had 90% of possible city improvement !!!
Djenerator	posted 12-15-98 07:36 PM ET I've won on deity, both by conquering and sending up my spaceship. My favorite Civ 2 story is when, after launching my spaceship, I followed standard Civ procedure and built the Manhattan Project for the extra points. Imagine my chagrin (and the stream of obscenities) when, in the next turn, Abe Lincoln nuked my capitol, captured it with a paratrooper, and crashed my spaceship. I never built the Manhattan Project again unless I had SDI defense and my ship was about to land. I can't always win on Diety, which is what makes the game still a challenge. Some of my favorite tactics: Expand. Conquer. Show no mercy. Who cares about reputation when you've squashed your closest neighbors and have a nice continent to yourself? Start with at least 20% allocated to luxuries, and discover monarchy ASAP. Settlers are crucial to improving and expanding. God bless Leonardo's Workshop. *Don't be afraid to start building three (or more) of the same Wonders...by the time you near completion, you'll have discovered new techs and will be able to transfer the accumulated production to other wonders. Anyone played Civ 2 mulitplayer? What's the word? Djen