all out war between computer controlled factions

  Alpha Centauri Forums
  Old Test Forums
  all out war between computer controlled factions

profile | register | prefs | faq | search

Author Topic:   all out war between computer controlled factions

Jimmy posted 11-30-98 07:14 PM ET
In Civ2, I find that the computer controlled civs do not fight all out wars against each other. They will throw two or three units against each other and then peace treaty. Whereas, against the human player, the computer goes all out to crush you.
I just wanted to say that in SMAC I want the computer controlled factions to go all out when they are at war wiht each other especially if one of them is my ally and I asked them to help me!
Spoe posted 12-01-98 01:17 AM ET
Even more so if they asked me to help them.
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 05:28 AM ET
This to me is one of the problems iminent with the current level of AI technology !!!
In trying to make the game chalenging, programmers have to program strategy algorithms into the computer !!!
And whereas we humans are good at strategy and tactics, interpreting those tactics into an algorithm is mindnumbingly complex !!!
Shortcuts are unfortunately absolutely nessicary .. to get an computer argorithm to flow like human thought is the holy grail of programming .. only then can we truly be chanlenged by an equal force !!!
The one thing I hated (but still understand) in civ, was that the essensials of the game for the other AI's and myself were different !!! At some levels, the AI's production was shortened (indented if you looked in with spies) .. this is nessicary to help counter the inefficientcy of the algorithms in the AI !!!
This in no way is meant as a insult to Sid, Brian and the former MicroProse crew, it is simply a fact !!! The fact that they managed to get the game balanced as well as they have is an acomplishment on its own !!!
Civ2 is simply the best game I've ever played !!!
The fact that the AI act differently with each other is actually there to make the game more challenging !!! Especially at higher levels !!! Be grateful for this fact, because as frustrating as it is, it's actually there to make the game more fun !!!
It's unfortunately anoying for pure anolytical thinkers who actually subconsciously try to breakdown the AI algorithms !!!
I know it was really anoyed to see AI cities of size 5 support 10 units and have 10 city improvements .. it just didn't make sense !!! And would be completely impossible for a human player to do in the same city !!! But eventually you adapt !!! And you become aware that this is a necissary evil !!!
As I said, civ2 is the best game ever. Yet, it and every other game past, present and near future (at least 5-10 years I'm sure) will also have to have these "shortcuts" for their AI, in order for the game to be challenging !!! Only when an AI has the same rules as the human players and it is challenging will gaming perfection be achived !!! Be happy that we can see "virtual-perfection" within our lifetimes !!!
It's fairly simple actually !!!
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 05:29 AM ET
LOL .. you think if I would have submitted that I might have gotten to be a BETA tester ??? lol
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 12-01-98 07:52 PM ET
Ahh, but DJ you are a beta tester! You just lie about your location, & say you're from Quebec! That way you can disguise the real beggings of the 8th faction. The faction is an easter egg faction! Shame on you DJ, lying to us like that...
Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 12-01-98 07:55 PM ET
Oh yeah. I forgot about the original topic.
I think that computer AI's who actually fight eachother would be great. I hated when me allies called on me to fight, then immediately after made peace with that civ. I also want to see them capturing the cities, I often find myself being the only one actually doing anything.
Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH
DJ RRebel posted 12-02-98 03:51 AM ET
Easter Egg faction ??? That is an awsome idea YYYH !!!
The game I'm playing now just had 2 long time allied faction starting a war !!!
For some bizare reason, I can see most of the action !!!
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 12-02-98 06:03 PM ET
Yeah, it is a good idea! The Easter Egg faction is used to balance out 3 factions allied, & the other 4 allied. Only in that situation will the Canadians appear to keep the peace.
Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH
To close this thread, click here (moderator or admin only).


Hop to:

Contact Us | Alpha Centauri Home

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.18
© Madrona Park, Inc., 1998.

Author	Topic: all out war between computer controlled factions
Jimmy	posted 11-30-98 07:14 PM ET In Civ2, I find that the computer controlled civs do not fight all out wars against each other. They will throw two or three units against each other and then peace treaty. Whereas, against the human player, the computer goes all out to crush you. I just wanted to say that in SMAC I want the computer controlled factions to go all out when they are at war wiht each other especially if one of them is my ally and I asked them to help me!
Spoe	posted 12-01-98 01:17 AM ET Even more so if they asked me to help them.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 05:28 AM ET This to me is one of the problems iminent with the current level of AI technology !!! In trying to make the game chalenging, programmers have to program strategy algorithms into the computer !!! And whereas we humans are good at strategy and tactics, interpreting those tactics into an algorithm is mindnumbingly complex !!! Shortcuts are unfortunately absolutely nessicary .. to get an computer argorithm to flow like human thought is the holy grail of programming .. only then can we truly be chanlenged by an equal force !!! The one thing I hated (but still understand) in civ, was that the essensials of the game for the other AI's and myself were different !!! At some levels, the AI's production was shortened (indented if you looked in with spies) .. this is nessicary to help counter the inefficientcy of the algorithms in the AI !!! This in no way is meant as a insult to Sid, Brian and the former MicroProse crew, it is simply a fact !!! The fact that they managed to get the game balanced as well as they have is an acomplishment on its own !!! Civ2 is simply the best game I've ever played !!! The fact that the AI act differently with each other is actually there to make the game more challenging !!! Especially at higher levels !!! Be grateful for this fact, because as frustrating as it is, it's actually there to make the game more fun !!! It's unfortunately anoying for pure anolytical thinkers who actually subconsciously try to breakdown the AI algorithms !!! I know it was really anoyed to see AI cities of size 5 support 10 units and have 10 city improvements .. it just didn't make sense !!! And would be completely impossible for a human player to do in the same city !!! But eventually you adapt !!! And you become aware that this is a necissary evil !!! As I said, civ2 is the best game ever. Yet, it and every other game past, present and near future (at least 5-10 years I'm sure) will also have to have these "shortcuts" for their AI, in order for the game to be challenging !!! Only when an AI has the same rules as the human players and it is challenging will gaming perfection be achived !!! Be happy that we can see "virtual-perfection" within our lifetimes !!! It's fairly simple actually !!!
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 05:29 AM ET LOL .. you think if I would have submitted that I might have gotten to be a BETA tester ??? lol
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey	posted 12-01-98 07:52 PM ET Ahh, but DJ you are a beta tester! You just lie about your location, & say you're from Quebec! That way you can disguise the real beggings of the 8th faction. The faction is an easter egg faction! Shame on you DJ, lying to us like that... Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general, YYYH
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey	posted 12-01-98 07:55 PM ET Oh yeah. I forgot about the original topic. I think that computer AI's who actually fight eachother would be great. I hated when me allies called on me to fight, then immediately after made peace with that civ. I also want to see them capturing the cities, I often find myself being the only one actually doing anything. Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general, YYYH
DJ RRebel	posted 12-02-98 03:51 AM ET Easter Egg faction ??? That is an awsome idea YYYH !!! The game I'm playing now just had 2 long time allied faction starting a war !!! For some bizare reason, I can see most of the action !!!
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey	posted 12-02-98 06:03 PM ET Yeah, it is a good idea! The Easter Egg faction is used to balance out 3 factions allied, & the other 4 allied. Only in that situation will the Canadians appear to keep the peace. Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general, YYYH