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Author Topic:   4 Commandments of SMAC

DJ RRebel posted 11-13-98 12:39 PM ET
Just thought of something in another thread and decided it could be fun to discuss !!!
How do you interprate the 4 commandments of SMAC ???
1> EXPLORE
2> DISCOVER
3> BUILD
4> CONQUER
How would you rank these in terms of your priorities on SMAC ???
Would you have your own commandments and leave these behind ???
BTW .. Commandment zero is as follows
0> NIM/NYM//NYM/NIM
BoomBoom posted 11-13-98 12:44 PM ET
It would depend on what stage of the game it is.
At the start you explore and build
Then you discover and build
and then you conquer and build
So I suppose that build is probably the most important one (if build means units as well as improvements)
DJ RRebel posted 11-13-98 12:50 PM ET
True .. but you build based on your needs, and you can't know what your needs are until you've explored !!!
Then .. of course .. all is meaningless unless you conquer !!!
And you can't conquer without dicovering anything !!!
I really think all four are virtually equally important !!! (ummm .. all five)
BigER posted 11-13-98 12:51 PM ET
Hmmmm. let's see
1> EXPLORE
2> DISCOVER
3> BUILD
4> CONQUER
I think this is a good start
I think I would go something like this.
1> Explore
2> Discover
3> Build
4> Consolidate
5> CONQUER
Although, this is just because I am a little more conservative.
DJ RRebel posted 11-13-98 12:54 PM ET
What do you mean by consolidate ???
MikeH II posted 11-13-98 01:35 PM ET
I think you need to use them all to thrive. I would tend to conquer more as my faction has a stronger army and it's its strength.
DAT posted 11-13-98 02:33 PM ET
1> DISCOVER
2> BUILD
3> EXPLORE
4> CONQUER
I always focus on research in order to be the most advanced faction. That way, I can build less units but still command a superior force. Conquer is always my lowest priority, since my highest priority (represented by the first three commandments) is NOT to BE conquered.
DJ RRebel posted 11-13-98 02:37 PM ET
Good point DAT !!!
But eventually you'd have to conquor your neighbours !!!
I didn't like leaving anyone left in my game except for one city of only one other civilization .. that way I could shape the world in my image, and I could set it up so I also arive on AC in the last couple of turns !!!
DAT posted 11-13-98 02:43 PM ET
DJ RRebel, I agree with you on leaving one city of one faction. Primarily because my greatest satisfaction in playing this type of game is to build the strongest, most dynamic civilization. By the end of the game I have invested a great deal of time and energy (even emotion?) into the nurturing of this civ and I don't want to see it end. So, leaving one city enables me to continue spreading out over the map and put off the "end" of my civ.
Accordingly, I hopt the SMAC allows us to keep playing beyond "victory." That way, we can score the victory to gain a high position in our "hall of fame" (I'm assuming this feature), yet continue on if we so desire.
DJ RRebel posted 11-13-98 02:45 PM ET
DAT ... ummm ... YES YES YES and YES ... I agree completely .. I'm hoping for the same !!!
jfrazier posted 11-13-98 03:16 PM ET
DJR Rebel:
Not sure what to emphasize first. Explore is good, but like Civ, I find it frustrating sending units out to check new territory over for a period of time. I like to consolidate what small areas I have, help them grow, then expand. So, I probably would limit explore; build; discover; then if I had too, and I am sure with the Spartans out there, conquer.
I wonder how diplomacy will work in SMAC?
I would rather have a economic alliance or high tech alliance than some military alliance, although that depends on what is currently happening.
Jeff
Ceasar of the Stars

BigER posted 11-13-98 06:55 PM ET
RREB when I say Consolidate I mean strenghten your borders-establish a fall back route should the enemy counter attack, build lines of supply, that sort of thing.
Again, I am a somewhat conservative player so
this idea may be foreign to some.
DarkLight posted 11-13-98 07:42 PM ET
I may apply a strategy similar to my Starcraft strategies in this game. On the othe rhand, I may have to adjust a bit. My first prioity is to build a strong defensive position at my main base in order to be able to survive early attacks and other such things. I then send out small, cheap, fast, expendable gus to locate the enemy early and keep track of him. After I have a decent recon net, I would send out small task forces to secure nearby valuable resurce nodes, and any special map features such as choke points for defensive emplacements. When sufficient resources have been acquired, bases are well fortified, and enough research is done, a special purpose strike force is designed specifically to destroy an enemy. In the case of Starcraft, if the enemy is Zerg and building lots of Hydralisks (a ranged swarming unit), I would build either defilers as the Zerg, siege tanks and science vessels as the Terrans, or High Templar and Reavers as the Protoss. The same basic startegy would apply to SMAC in that an enemy's weaknesses would be exploited for my own gain. If I am right, this shoudl work even in the much slower paced Alpha Centauri.
Mortis posted 11-13-98 10:37 PM ET
1. Thou shall not kill (unless thou is a Spartan)
2. Thou shall not steal techs.
3. Respect thy desginer and thy programmers.
4. Remember the relise date and keep it holy you have six months to talk in the forums, but dedicate the seventh month to playing SMAC. In the six months I, Sid made SMAC. That is why I, Sid blessed the relised date and made it holy.
That's my four.
DHE_X2 posted 11-13-98 10:45 PM ET
1 destroy spartans
2 become allies with the UoP
3 exploit Miriam
4 steal from Morgan
SnowFire posted 11-14-98 07:56 PM ET
Early on, it would be : Discover, Build
Later in the Early Game: Discover, Build, Explore (in that order)
Only when I am supremely condfident will I venture out to conquer.
An interesting game that that strategy can almost never be used is Imperailsim. Withing the first 20 years its extremely rare that someone won't declare war on you, so you have to bootstrap your empire into military shape quickly. After that one war is over and your opponent is crushed, the rest of the game is pretty easy.
DJ RRebel posted 11-15-98 05:29 AM ET
Nope BigE .. nor foreign at all ... I know exactly what you mean ... actually, infrastructure is really important ... mind you I think that would fall under Build ... but it's still a distinctive step !!!
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey posted 11-15-98 12:38 PM ET
BUILD, DISCOVER, EXPLORE, CONQUER.
In that order. I have nothing to say except that Ohio liscence plates were in the movie "The Rainmaker".
Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general,
YYYH
Dnalor The Destroyer posted 11-15-98 03:47 PM ET
Explore ?
Discover ?
Build ?
Conquer ?
Yes, but do not fall for schematics. Explore, discover, build at the same time.
Do not explore and discover at the expense of building your bases. Do not build and neglect what is going on around you. And do not conquer until you have the strength to do so, or the hunter will soon be the prey.
Trivial, but fail to do the trivial, and you shall never never get to the really difficult choices.
And the number 1 commandment:
Thou shalt never lose sight of your plan. Adjust your means, never adjust your goal.
So you shall fulfill the Holy Plan.

Dnalor The Destroyer, First Avenger of The Army of the Holy Plan.
BigER posted 11-16-98 11:13 AM ET
Weel , REB if you follow your steps in order Build comes before Discover and Explore and the kind of consolidation I am talking about has to happen AFTER you have done the other three. That is you, would consolidater your gains. Building is a seperate task. Just the way I see it. But you can do it any way you like.
DJ RRebel posted 11-16-98 11:19 AM ET
OK ... good point BigE ... I guess it's clear here, that the importance varies on the situation ... all 4 have virtually equal importance, yet they all have different priorities depending on your current situation !!!
Let's say you bump into a faction 20 turns into the game, your priorities will change drasticly to defence/offence, whereas if you start on a tiny island, you will jump to exploring !!!
DJ RRebel posted 11-25-98 03:23 AM ET
Dnalor ... good point ... I guess the single most important thing is striking a good balance between them all !!!
I'm surprised none of you had placed NIM in your lists though .. that will be your fatal mistake !!!
Roland posted 11-25-98 09:29 AM ET
DJ, don't believe what he says. He just wants to lur (lurr ? as that a word, anyway?) you into a careful approach so he can overrun you by his militaristic approach. He's a gambler by nature...
DJ RRebel posted 11-25-98 09:38 AM ET
Roland .. thanks for the warning !!!
How goes it anyways ???
What would be your favorite Commandment of SMAC ???
Roland posted 11-25-98 11:30 AM ET
My 4 commandments of SMAC for now:
1. Firaxis shall give us the demo of SMAC!
2. Firaxis shall give us the game of SMAC!
3. Thou shalt buy the game of SMAC!
4. Thou shalt play the game of SMAC!

PS: How's it going ? You shouldn't ask that someone who has a ****ing cold, a head that's fealing like it's about to collapse and who has to talk for 2 and 1/2 hours about administrative law through each of the next days, cause that person may start whining about how miserable he is...
DJ RRebel posted 11-25-98 11:40 AM ET
oh .. sorry to hear about that !!!
Good luck with your speaches !!!
You forgot:
Firaxis shalt give all their loyal fans a copy of the BETA now !!!
Roland posted 11-25-98 11:54 AM ET
Thanx for the condolations !
Your commandment... well, I only chose those that have a chance of being obeyed... sigh....
DJ RRebel posted 11-25-98 11:58 AM ET
Tell me about it !!!
Oh well .. 25 days to go !!!
I hope !!!
AUH20 posted 11-27-98 07:58 PM ET
1.Discover
2.Build
3.Explore
4.Conquer
Advanced technology is vital to building improvements, creating needle-jets which can explore, and units which can conquer. You have to build to explore and conquer(units!) And you have to find the people you can conquer.
I, for one, am a more pacific(not pacifistic!) player, so I probably conquer once to see what the animation is like and trancend the rest of the time.
DJ RRebel posted 11-28-98 11:01 AM ET
What on Earth (or Chiron) is a needle-jet ???
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 01:24 PM ET
I reapeat myself again !!!
Can anyone tell me what a needle jet is ???
The One And Only DarkStar posted 12-01-98 03:18 PM ET
My commandments would be these two:
1-Have fun playing SMAC
2-HAve a second line before playing SMAC online, cause 1 hour per game is long, and if its the average...
TOAODS
DJ RRebel posted 12-01-98 04:10 PM ET
DarkStar .. LOL ... just get a cable connection !!!
CClark posted 12-01-98 05:20 PM ET
DJ - I think the Needle Jet is a jet with a Needler canon as it's armament. Duh!
I usually tend to make one scout and send it off exploring, just to uncover the map and look for good places to put cities. I don't worry about going back over the map to make sure it is up to date as the initial pass is just a terrain sweep.
I usually tend to put too much emphasis on building city improvements and research and let my military lag behind (or only concentrate on defensive measures).
The conquering bit I'll leave to others as I will probably plan on winning via research to Trancendence most of the time.
Discover
Build
Defend/Diplomacy
Trancsendence
JingoPenguin posted 12-01-98 05:45 PM ET
From what I understand it will be possible to place far less emphasis on conquest by military means in SMAC than in Civ2 because the more advance diplomacy means that you can make another faction subserviant without conquering them. I remember someone mentioning that you can force factions to give you colonies like in MOO2. Of course, all that stuff can be done in multiplayer anyway, get very rich and advanced and threaten weaker players hehe
Anyway, my list would be
1) Explore
2) Discover
3) Build
4) Conquer
After all, information is more important than money (sometimes )
MikeH II posted 12-01-98 06:51 PM ET
Note to all planners. Don't forget your plan will go to toilet at the first possible opportunity.
BorgBTD posted 12-01-98 08:06 PM ET
The only thing more important than a good plan are ten equaly good backup plans cause your gonna need them.
SnowFire posted 12-01-98 11:13 PM ET
Yeah, you could rob the computer of good colonies in MOO II that way. Ask for a fully built up colony and they'll be horribly offended. If they beat you to colonizing a lush star system though, immediately demand it. It only views its value by population and buildings, and you can ususally rob a free colony that way.
DJ RRebel posted 12-02-98 04:14 AM ET
You're right, the absolutely most important thing in these type of games is flexibility, you should be ready for anything at any time !!!
DJ RRebel posted 12-07-98 06:30 PM ET
Did anyone notice there isn't a SMAC "commandment" for diplomacy ???
I just thought of that now !!!
I guess some might consider conquer in the same catagory, but it really isn't the same thing !!!
bio_spacer posted 12-07-98 08:29 PM ET
however it may sound i think that there should be a 5th comandment : kill
i say this because u HAVE to kill, to do any conquering, exploring, building, or discovering, although the degree of killing changes depending on which other comandment u r dealing with.
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Author	Topic: 4 Commandments of SMAC
DJ RRebel	posted 11-13-98 12:39 PM ET Just thought of something in another thread and decided it could be fun to discuss !!! How do you interprate the 4 commandments of SMAC ??? 1> EXPLORE 2> DISCOVER 3> BUILD 4> CONQUER How would you rank these in terms of your priorities on SMAC ??? Would you have your own commandments and leave these behind ??? BTW .. Commandment zero is as follows 0> NIM/NYM//NYM/NIM
BoomBoom	posted 11-13-98 12:44 PM ET It would depend on what stage of the game it is. At the start you explore and build Then you discover and build and then you conquer and build So I suppose that build is probably the most important one (if build means units as well as improvements)
DJ RRebel	posted 11-13-98 12:50 PM ET True .. but you build based on your needs, and you can't know what your needs are until you've explored !!! Then .. of course .. all is meaningless unless you conquer !!! And you can't conquer without dicovering anything !!! I really think all four are virtually equally important !!! (ummm .. all five)
BigER	posted 11-13-98 12:51 PM ET Hmmmm. let's see 1> EXPLORE 2> DISCOVER 3> BUILD 4> CONQUER I think this is a good start I think I would go something like this. 1> Explore 2> Discover 3> Build 4> Consolidate 5> CONQUER Although, this is just because I am a little more conservative.
DJ RRebel	posted 11-13-98 12:54 PM ET What do you mean by consolidate ???
MikeH II	posted 11-13-98 01:35 PM ET I think you need to use them all to thrive. I would tend to conquer more as my faction has a stronger army and it's its strength.
DAT	posted 11-13-98 02:33 PM ET 1> DISCOVER 2> BUILD 3> EXPLORE 4> CONQUER I always focus on research in order to be the most advanced faction. That way, I can build less units but still command a superior force. Conquer is always my lowest priority, since my highest priority (represented by the first three commandments) is NOT to BE conquered.
DJ RRebel	posted 11-13-98 02:37 PM ET Good point DAT !!! But eventually you'd have to conquor your neighbours !!! I didn't like leaving anyone left in my game except for one city of only one other civilization .. that way I could shape the world in my image, and I could set it up so I also arive on AC in the last couple of turns !!!
DAT	posted 11-13-98 02:43 PM ET DJ RRebel, I agree with you on leaving one city of one faction. Primarily because my greatest satisfaction in playing this type of game is to build the strongest, most dynamic civilization. By the end of the game I have invested a great deal of time and energy (even emotion?) into the nurturing of this civ and I don't want to see it end. So, leaving one city enables me to continue spreading out over the map and put off the "end" of my civ. Accordingly, I hopt the SMAC allows us to keep playing beyond "victory." That way, we can score the victory to gain a high position in our "hall of fame" (I'm assuming this feature), yet continue on if we so desire.
DJ RRebel	posted 11-13-98 02:45 PM ET DAT ... ummm ... YES YES YES and YES ... I agree completely .. I'm hoping for the same !!!
jfrazier	posted 11-13-98 03:16 PM ET DJR Rebel: Not sure what to emphasize first. Explore is good, but like Civ, I find it frustrating sending units out to check new territory over for a period of time. I like to consolidate what small areas I have, help them grow, then expand. So, I probably would limit explore; build; discover; then if I had too, and I am sure with the Spartans out there, conquer. I wonder how diplomacy will work in SMAC? I would rather have a economic alliance or high tech alliance than some military alliance, although that depends on what is currently happening. Jeff Ceasar of the Stars
BigER	posted 11-13-98 06:55 PM ET RREB when I say Consolidate I mean strenghten your borders-establish a fall back route should the enemy counter attack, build lines of supply, that sort of thing. Again, I am a somewhat conservative player so this idea may be foreign to some.
DarkLight	posted 11-13-98 07:42 PM ET I may apply a strategy similar to my Starcraft strategies in this game. On the othe rhand, I may have to adjust a bit. My first prioity is to build a strong defensive position at my main base in order to be able to survive early attacks and other such things. I then send out small, cheap, fast, expendable gus to locate the enemy early and keep track of him. After I have a decent recon net, I would send out small task forces to secure nearby valuable resurce nodes, and any special map features such as choke points for defensive emplacements. When sufficient resources have been acquired, bases are well fortified, and enough research is done, a special purpose strike force is designed specifically to destroy an enemy. In the case of Starcraft, if the enemy is Zerg and building lots of Hydralisks (a ranged swarming unit), I would build either defilers as the Zerg, siege tanks and science vessels as the Terrans, or High Templar and Reavers as the Protoss. The same basic startegy would apply to SMAC in that an enemy's weaknesses would be exploited for my own gain. If I am right, this shoudl work even in the much slower paced Alpha Centauri.
Mortis	posted 11-13-98 10:37 PM ET 1. Thou shall not kill (unless thou is a Spartan) 2. Thou shall not steal techs. 3. Respect thy desginer and thy programmers. 4. Remember the relise date and keep it holy you have six months to talk in the forums, but dedicate the seventh month to playing SMAC. In the six months I, Sid made SMAC. That is why I, Sid blessed the relised date and made it holy. That's my four.
DHE_X2	posted 11-13-98 10:45 PM ET 1 destroy spartans 2 become allies with the UoP 3 exploit Miriam 4 steal from Morgan
SnowFire	posted 11-14-98 07:56 PM ET Early on, it would be : Discover, Build Later in the Early Game: Discover, Build, Explore (in that order) Only when I am supremely condfident will I venture out to conquer. An interesting game that that strategy can almost never be used is Imperailsim. Withing the first 20 years its extremely rare that someone won't declare war on you, so you have to bootstrap your empire into military shape quickly. After that one war is over and your opponent is crushed, the rest of the game is pretty easy.
DJ RRebel	posted 11-15-98 05:29 AM ET Nope BigE .. nor foreign at all ... I know exactly what you mean ... actually, infrastructure is really important ... mind you I think that would fall under Build ... but it's still a distinctive step !!!
Yo_Yo_Yo_Hey	posted 11-15-98 12:38 PM ET BUILD, DISCOVER, EXPLORE, CONQUER. In that order. I have nothing to say except that Ohio liscence plates were in the movie "The Rainmaker". Your faithful & hell-bent NIMadier general, YYYH
Dnalor The Destroyer	posted 11-15-98 03:47 PM ET Explore ? Discover ? Build ? Conquer ? Yes, but do not fall for schematics. Explore, discover, build at the same time. Do not explore and discover at the expense of building your bases. Do not build and neglect what is going on around you. And do not conquer until you have the strength to do so, or the hunter will soon be the prey. Trivial, but fail to do the trivial, and you shall never never get to the really difficult choices. And the number 1 commandment: Thou shalt never lose sight of your plan. Adjust your means, never adjust your goal. So you shall fulfill the Holy Plan. Dnalor The Destroyer, First Avenger of The Army of the Holy Plan.
BigER	posted 11-16-98 11:13 AM ET Weel , REB if you follow your steps in order Build comes before Discover and Explore and the kind of consolidation I am talking about has to happen AFTER you have done the other three. That is you, would consolidater your gains. Building is a seperate task. Just the way I see it. But you can do it any way you like.
DJ RRebel	posted 11-16-98 11:19 AM ET OK ... good point BigE ... I guess it's clear here, that the importance varies on the situation ... all 4 have virtually equal importance, yet they all have different priorities depending on your current situation !!! Let's say you bump into a faction 20 turns into the game, your priorities will change drasticly to defence/offence, whereas if you start on a tiny island, you will jump to exploring !!!
DJ RRebel	posted 11-25-98 03:23 AM ET Dnalor ... good point ... I guess the single most important thing is striking a good balance between them all !!! I'm surprised none of you had placed NIM in your lists though .. that will be your fatal mistake !!!
Roland	posted 11-25-98 09:29 AM ET DJ, don't believe what he says. He just wants to lur (lurr ? as that a word, anyway?) you into a careful approach so he can overrun you by his militaristic approach. He's a gambler by nature...
DJ RRebel	posted 11-25-98 09:38 AM ET Roland .. thanks for the warning !!! How goes it anyways ??? What would be your favorite Commandment of SMAC ???
Roland	posted 11-25-98 11:30 AM ET My 4 commandments of SMAC for now: 1. Firaxis shall give us the demo of SMAC! 2. Firaxis shall give us the game of SMAC! 3. Thou shalt buy the game of SMAC! 4. Thou shalt play the game of SMAC! PS: How's it going ? You shouldn't ask that someone who has a ****ing cold, a head that's fealing like it's about to collapse and who has to talk for 2 and 1/2 hours about administrative law through each of the next days, cause that person may start whining about how miserable he is...
DJ RRebel	posted 11-25-98 11:40 AM ET oh .. sorry to hear about that !!! Good luck with your speaches !!! You forgot: Firaxis shalt give all their loyal fans a copy of the BETA now !!!
Roland	posted 11-25-98 11:54 AM ET Thanx for the condolations ! Your commandment... well, I only chose those that have a chance of being obeyed... sigh....
DJ RRebel	posted 11-25-98 11:58 AM ET Tell me about it !!! Oh well .. 25 days to go !!! I hope !!!
AUH20	posted 11-27-98 07:58 PM ET 1.Discover 2.Build 3.Explore 4.Conquer Advanced technology is vital to building improvements, creating needle-jets which can explore, and units which can conquer. You have to build to explore and conquer(units!) And you have to find the people you can conquer. I, for one, am a more pacific(not pacifistic!) player, so I probably conquer once to see what the animation is like and trancend the rest of the time.
DJ RRebel	posted 11-28-98 11:01 AM ET What on Earth (or Chiron) is a needle-jet ???
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 01:24 PM ET I reapeat myself again !!! Can anyone tell me what a needle jet is ???
The One And Only DarkStar	posted 12-01-98 03:18 PM ET My commandments would be these two: 1-Have fun playing SMAC 2-HAve a second line before playing SMAC online, cause 1 hour per game is long, and if its the average... TOAODS
DJ RRebel	posted 12-01-98 04:10 PM ET DarkStar .. LOL ... just get a cable connection !!!
CClark	posted 12-01-98 05:20 PM ET DJ - I think the Needle Jet is a jet with a Needler canon as it's armament. Duh! I usually tend to make one scout and send it off exploring, just to uncover the map and look for good places to put cities. I don't worry about going back over the map to make sure it is up to date as the initial pass is just a terrain sweep. I usually tend to put too much emphasis on building city improvements and research and let my military lag behind (or only concentrate on defensive measures). The conquering bit I'll leave to others as I will probably plan on winning via research to Trancendence most of the time. Discover Build Defend/Diplomacy Trancsendence
JingoPenguin	posted 12-01-98 05:45 PM ET From what I understand it will be possible to place far less emphasis on conquest by military means in SMAC than in Civ2 because the more advance diplomacy means that you can make another faction subserviant without conquering them. I remember someone mentioning that you can force factions to give you colonies like in MOO2. Of course, all that stuff can be done in multiplayer anyway, get very rich and advanced and threaten weaker players hehe Anyway, my list would be 1) Explore 2) Discover 3) Build 4) Conquer After all, information is more important than money (sometimes )
MikeH II	posted 12-01-98 06:51 PM ET Note to all planners. Don't forget your plan will go to toilet at the first possible opportunity.
BorgBTD	posted 12-01-98 08:06 PM ET The only thing more important than a good plan are ten equaly good backup plans cause your gonna need them.
SnowFire	posted 12-01-98 11:13 PM ET Yeah, you could rob the computer of good colonies in MOO II that way. Ask for a fully built up colony and they'll be horribly offended. If they beat you to colonizing a lush star system though, immediately demand it. It only views its value by population and buildings, and you can ususally rob a free colony that way.
DJ RRebel	posted 12-02-98 04:14 AM ET You're right, the absolutely most important thing in these type of games is flexibility, you should be ready for anything at any time !!!
DJ RRebel	posted 12-07-98 06:30 PM ET Did anyone notice there isn't a SMAC "commandment" for diplomacy ??? I just thought of that now !!! I guess some might consider conquer in the same catagory, but it really isn't the same thing !!!
bio_spacer	posted 12-07-98 08:29 PM ET however it may sound i think that there should be a 5th comandment : kill i say this because u HAVE to kill, to do any conquering, exploring, building, or discovering, although the degree of killing changes depending on which other comandment u r dealing with.