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Author Topic:   The Flour Flotilla*2

cousLee posted 06-11-99 05:42 AM ET
fine, enough people yelled about it. Post whenever you want in the story thread. Just remember, if it gets out of hand, don't blame me.
Remember, there is now a turn thread at the acol site.
http://www.an.i-dentity.com/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro
Blah N
Lord of the Isles posted 06-11-99 06:33 AM ET
Memory a bit foggy but I think I was the 4-1-2 prototyper that Aredhran was chiding. Even if I wasn't, I might have been. Hadn't realised that prototyping worked this way: assumed each unit was done independently.
What a good game: some humour in the BBs and two things I've learned already (the other is not to hoard energy credits so much in the early game, but to get them spent on useful things). I'm an experienced Civ & CivII player but have only had SMAC for 4 weeks or so (can show you the bags under my red eyes to prove it). Keep the criticism coming, I can handle it.
Meister Weizenkeim posted 06-12-99 11:37 AM ET
rolled "Morn" on the D (flotilla)
nothing wrong with Fundie, right
also ended the prototype debate by disbanding it into an energy bank production
I *really* like the game - Flo -tilla, hehehe
cousLee posted 06-12-99 07:34 PM ET
Flo, the turn tracking thread is at ACOL.
What meanest thou? nay disbanded ye a proto! Whence thy thinking comes from?
Meister Weizenkeim posted 06-13-99 02:16 PM ET
thanks for pointing to ACOL
The Peacekeepers went free market (just to annoy Lady Deirdre ) So they can't even use production fiendish 4-1-1 units as ersatzcops.
Ergo, 15 minerals recovered for an energy bank.
cousLee posted 06-13-99 02:49 PM ET
again I ask where you logic in that is?
Prototypes cost 4 energy per mineral to buy, same as SP.
Base facilities cost 2 energy per mineral to complete.
15 minerals X2 is only 30 energy credits. the 30 minerals used to build the proto X4 is a 120 energy equiv.
Plus the unit has a morale upgrade, and can be left in the base when FM with no penalties. And can be upgraded to a superior unit later.
I fail to see why you would disband a proto.
cousLee posted 06-13-99 02:50 PM ET
Actually, the proto would have been 45 minerals. (cost+50%) 45 X4 energy = 180 credit value.
sorry
Meister Weizenkeim posted 06-13-99 03:53 PM ET
relax
the proto was already finished. So the loss is the 50% extra minerals needed to build it initially. This loss could not be avoided because the PK have no skunkworks. I don't see the point of the energy cost comparison, as surely no one rushbuilt this unit. I believe we have to think mineral equivalents for military/ base goodies.
Why disband a unit with superior morale ?
One of the units in the base had to go to free resources !! 4-1-1 is much worse than 1-1t-1 as a base defender; both units cost one mineral upkeep; the 4-1-1 was more expensive productionwise, so it yields more minerals as a disband.
So the useless one was rexycled.
Gain: 10 (or 15, not sure) minerals immediately, +1 mineral/ turn
(side note I : i usually prototype inexpensive X-1-1 units, which go straight into SP production)
side note II: don't you smell the spirit of the flour flotilla in our discusssion ?
cousLee posted 06-14-99 05:34 PM ET
aye, I love the smell of baked goods in the morning.
30 minerals cost, 10 minerals net. Good math.
You could have got the same 15 minerals for 30 energy credits. the 1-1t-1 is a defender yes, but a 4-1-1 is not a defence unit. If left in the base, could attack approaching enemy units, and the 1-1t-1 would not be at risk. If the 1-1t-1 were to be destroyed, the base would be empty and subjected to being the meat in a MW sandwich. I realize the benefit of not having to pay that support for the 4-1-1, but if MW eat that energy bank, well...the losses mount... we'll see.
You could have moved the unit to a pact faction and transferred control.
And with the toss of some dice, the oven increases heat.
BTW, I am relaxed, and enjoying this debate.. erm, recipe..
Aredhran posted 06-14-99 07:03 PM ET
Hehehehe. This is funny. Kinda like the whole theory I had in the other thread about prototyping on expensive units
Keep up the entertainment, guys
Aredhran
jimmytrick posted 06-14-99 07:23 PM ET
This makes be understand why Robert E. Lee wanted to get the hell out of Richmond.
To the Front! To the Front. Give me Wimpy and let me lead the charge, General!
Hang the feller high, him that disbanded ma Raiders!!
Lt. Col. jtrick
Chiron Defense(straddlers)League
Meister Weizenkeim posted 06-14-99 09:25 PM ET
the oven is red hot now . We just developed planned economics, for infinite fun with social engineering discussions.
cousLee posted 06-20-99 02:12 PM ET
I propose we move the (restricted) thread to a forum that has post editing. That way, if you go on vacation, or are using a temporary email addy, you can edit your number to that effect. Even the occasional off topic post could be fixed.
ACO is the most logical choice.
JAMstillAM posted 06-20-99 05:10 PM ET
cousLee and others,
I second the motion. It'll help keep the thread cleaner and easier to follow. Lead us, our glorious creator, and we will follow. i.e. create the thread and post its location.
JAMiAM
cousLee posted 06-20-99 08:29 PM ET
in order to maximize benefits, each player needs to re-post there (at ACO).
MoSe posted 06-21-99 06:29 AM ET
You know that topics are liste in descending order of last post timestamp.
I wonder if this takes into account the editing of a posting, or if we'd have to add anyway idle replies to keep it up in the list
cousLee posted 06-21-99 06:06 PM ET
I know at Apolyton, when you back edit a post, it does not scoot the thread, or change the original date, and the order posted stays the same. So, yea, we will have to do thread scoots.
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Author	*Topic: The Flour Flotilla2**
cousLee	posted 06-11-99 05:42 AM ET fine, enough people yelled about it. Post whenever you want in the story thread. Just remember, if it gets out of hand, don't blame me. Remember, there is now a turn thread at the acol site. http://www.an.i-dentity.com/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro Blah N
Lord of the Isles	posted 06-11-99 06:33 AM ET Memory a bit foggy but I think I was the 4-1-2 prototyper that Aredhran was chiding. Even if I wasn't, I might have been. Hadn't realised that prototyping worked this way: assumed each unit was done independently. What a good game: some humour in the BBs and two things I've learned already (the other is not to hoard energy credits so much in the early game, but to get them spent on useful things). I'm an experienced Civ & CivII player but have only had SMAC for 4 weeks or so (can show you the bags under my red eyes to prove it). Keep the criticism coming, I can handle it.
Meister Weizenkeim	posted 06-12-99 11:37 AM ET rolled "Morn" on the D (flotilla) nothing wrong with Fundie, right also ended the prototype debate by disbanding it into an energy bank production I really like the game - Flo -tilla, hehehe
cousLee	posted 06-12-99 07:34 PM ET Flo, the turn tracking thread is at ACOL. What meanest thou? nay disbanded ye a proto! Whence thy thinking comes from?
Meister Weizenkeim	posted 06-13-99 02:16 PM ET thanks for pointing to ACOL The Peacekeepers went free market (just to annoy Lady Deirdre ) So they can't even use production fiendish 4-1-1 units as ersatzcops. Ergo, 15 minerals recovered for an energy bank.
cousLee	posted 06-13-99 02:49 PM ET again I ask where you logic in that is? Prototypes cost 4 energy per mineral to buy, same as SP. Base facilities cost 2 energy per mineral to complete. 15 minerals X2 is only 30 energy credits. the 30 minerals used to build the proto X4 is a 120 energy equiv. Plus the unit has a morale upgrade, and can be left in the base when FM with no penalties. And can be upgraded to a superior unit later. I fail to see why you would disband a proto.
cousLee	posted 06-13-99 02:50 PM ET Actually, the proto would have been 45 minerals. (cost+50%) 45 X4 energy = 180 credit value. sorry
Meister Weizenkeim	posted 06-13-99 03:53 PM ET relax the proto was already finished. So the loss is the 50% extra minerals needed to build it initially. This loss could not be avoided because the PK have no skunkworks. I don't see the point of the energy cost comparison, as surely no one rushbuilt this unit. I believe we have to think mineral equivalents for military/ base goodies. Why disband a unit with superior morale ? One of the units in the base had to go to free resources !! 4-1-1 is much worse than 1-1t-1 as a base defender; both units cost one mineral upkeep; the 4-1-1 was more expensive productionwise, so it yields more minerals as a disband. So the useless one was rexycled. Gain: 10 (or 15, not sure) minerals immediately, +1 mineral/ turn (side note I : i usually prototype inexpensive X-1-1 units, which go straight into SP production) side note II: don't you smell the spirit of the flour flotilla in our discusssion ?
cousLee	posted 06-14-99 05:34 PM ET aye, I love the smell of baked goods in the morning. 30 minerals cost, 10 minerals net. Good math. You could have got the same 15 minerals for 30 energy credits. the 1-1t-1 is a defender yes, but a 4-1-1 is not a defence unit. If left in the base, could attack approaching enemy units, and the 1-1t-1 would not be at risk. If the 1-1t-1 were to be destroyed, the base would be empty and subjected to being the meat in a MW sandwich. I realize the benefit of not having to pay that support for the 4-1-1, but if MW eat that energy bank, well...the losses mount... we'll see. You could have moved the unit to a pact faction and transferred control. And with the toss of some dice, the oven increases heat. BTW, I am relaxed, and enjoying this debate.. erm, recipe..
Aredhran	posted 06-14-99 07:03 PM ET Hehehehe. This is funny. Kinda like the whole theory I had in the other thread about prototyping on expensive units Keep up the entertainment, guys Aredhran
jimmytrick	posted 06-14-99 07:23 PM ET This makes be understand why Robert E. Lee wanted to get the hell out of Richmond. To the Front! To the Front. Give me Wimpy and let me lead the charge, General! Hang the feller high, him that disbanded ma Raiders!! Lt. Col. jtrick Chiron Defense(straddlers)League
Meister Weizenkeim	posted 06-14-99 09:25 PM ET the oven is red hot now . We just developed planned economics, for infinite fun with social engineering discussions.
cousLee	posted 06-20-99 02:12 PM ET I propose we move the (restricted) thread to a forum that has post editing. That way, if you go on vacation, or are using a temporary email addy, you can edit your number to that effect. Even the occasional off topic post could be fixed. ACO is the most logical choice.
JAMstillAM	posted 06-20-99 05:10 PM ET cousLee and others, I second the motion. It'll help keep the thread cleaner and easier to follow. Lead us, our glorious creator, and we will follow. i.e. create the thread and post its location. JAMiAM
cousLee	posted 06-20-99 08:29 PM ET in order to maximize benefits, each player needs to re-post there (at ACO).
MoSe	posted 06-21-99 06:29 AM ET You know that topics are liste in descending order of last post timestamp. I wonder if this takes into account the editing of a posting, or if we'd have to add anyway idle replies to keep it up in the list
cousLee	posted 06-21-99 06:06 PM ET I know at Apolyton, when you back edit a post, it does not scoot the thread, or change the original date, and the order posted stays the same. So, yea, we will have to do thread scoots.