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Author Topic:   The Survivors

NotLikeTea posted 08-24-99 05:28 PM ET
(I'm pasting this from an e-mail I sent to Shining1, who I consider to be excellent faction generation)
The faction would be The Survivors. In 2496, an unnamed faction is sweeping across Planet, almost achieving a complete conquest. A small group of refugees from captured bases get together, pooling their resources, and manage to create a gate, combining the Psi Gate and Temporal Mechanics. Using this gate, they escape to the past, to emerge as the other factions are first landing.
This faction would be primarily concerned
with preventing their future from occuring again (as aversion to Power? Millitary/Police Penalties?) Of course, travelling from a future into the past, abandoning technologies, friends, and families would be very difficult (more Drones? Slower growth?)
Of course, this seems to give no bonuses, and this is where I am stuck. My considerations would be a free tech (rescued future technology), a research bonus or sharetech (rediscovering tech easier than inventing it from scratch), an extra colony pod or other unit to begin (brought through the gate), or something else entirely. At the most extreme (and maybe most interesting), each base could get a free Psi Gate, but this may be difficult to balance, and I need to check if the AI uses them.
And now the flavour text (stats are not final):
Survivors, The Temporal Refugee, Survivors, M, 2, Jumping-Bull, M, -1, 0, 1, 0, 0,
TECH, Indust, SOCIAL, -POLICE, SOCIAL, -SUPPORT, FACILITY, 33, UNIT, 0, PSI, 1, RESEARCH, 1, DRONE, 5, TALENT, 1, ENERGY, 1
Economics, Planned, TALENT
Values, Power, nil
Surviving, Surviv.
Lillith, Kruger, Lillith's Rest
Deputy, honourable, cowardly, brave, cowering,
Escapist Fool
ensure a safe future for all
ensure this future is safe from tyranny
changing history at all costs
changing history at all costs
try to control a Planet that you have already rightfully lost
trying to change history to protect himself
trying to change history to protect yourself
spreading lies about a distopic "future"
talk of the "future", M1
survival, M2
"historical plans", M1
deposit, M1
ensuring a safe future for all humanity
my security forces
the New Historical Design
(no base names yet)
#BLURB
You call yourselves "survivalists". Yet you would fight to the
death to defend your land. When we were faced with the decision
of fight or flight, we choose to leave. Leave our home, leave
our friends, leave our very era. We choose to survive. Is this
any less courageous? Do the dead survive?
^
^ -- William Jumping-Bull
#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Deputy William Jumping-Bull}
^BACKGROUND: {Leader of group to escape from future war to past}
^AGENDA: {Ensure history will not be repeated}
^TECH: {Industrial base}
^
#FACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Please $NAME1! War will only lead to a future of tyranny. Let
us pledge Blood Truce, and prevent this unnecessary death."
"Very well, but I will respond if provoked."
"No. I have no intention of living in the future you want to bring about."
#FACTIONTREATY
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Shall we sign a Treaty of Friendship, and help to bring about
an era of peace?"
"Yes $NAME3. Death helps no one."
"No. I don't want to have to submit to your vast plans."

Any comments would be welcome! I need to get something concrete out of these vague concepts and ideas!
PawtheUnstuk posted 08-24-99 09:25 PM ET
In order to get an idea of how a faction like this might act, simply bring it home a little: Imagine that there is a nuclear war 10 years from now, and somehow a random assortment of modern humans manage to escape back to some date in the past: say right as the roman empire is emerging, say right as Colombus is discovering America, pick some interesting date and think through it. How would we fare?
We would have to get a HUGE tech bonus. Even if a doctor can't give a cat scan or do advanced surgery, he's still going to have huge advantages over his now-contemporaries. He'll know about the germ theory of medicine. He'll know which things, such as bleeding, are counterproductive. Their might even be someone who as a vague idea of how to make penicillin or eye-glasses: sure no one will know the exact way of doing it. But knowing t hat such a thing does exist, and having a vague idea of a starting point is going to be a huge advantage.
What sorts of science do you think you personally could do with just your HS diploma and 10th century tech? Someone might have a vague idea of making gunpowder.
The Tech advantages are going to be huge.
I'm not to sure about the disadvantages though. I'm thinking being accustomed to a different socioty with more tech. Ie., anyone who needs contacts or an inhaler is dead in a hurry. This will proabably be a bigger problem 500 years from now: what are the ppl who have MMI installed going to do when they can't find whatever is nessecary to take care of t heir implants? What about ppl who were raised with Pyschic tech? Will the much smaller 21st century xenofungus network be able to support transecndi?
Hope that helped.
Alex
NotLikeTea posted 08-25-99 07:06 AM ET
True, but that applies to skills, and not technology.
A doctor from the future would know a vast amount about medecine. Engineers would know about modern building techniques.
But imagine we have 1000 citizens, from today, trapped 500 years ago. Imagine a simple, and important technology like th radio. All will have seen and used a radio (probably). Maybe 100 will have some vague idea of how a radio actually works. But how many will be able to build one? How many will be able to construct the parts? How many will know how to obtain the materials to construct the parts?
Of course, my faction would have an advantage, having prepared, if hastily, for the trip. Maybe giving them 2-3 free random techs at the beginning, or the sharetech would be the best way to go...
Problem is that I don't want them to become just another University...
akathisia posted 08-25-99 01:28 PM ET
This sounds like a great idea for a faction. If you do give random techs though, it will likely make them too powerful. A human may play to prevent the all-out war, but what would the AI Yang do with 2-2-2 Rovers on turn 1.
If you do assign a few free techs, make sure they don't give any great advantages (in other words, no high attack or defenses, no great facilities or SP's-imagine getting the tech for Cloning Vats on the first turn)
Is there a way to vary the start date for just one faction so that they appear 5 or 10 years after planetfall? That would be an interesting con to a faction like this.
Good Luck.
akathisia
Rakeesh posted 08-25-99 06:05 PM ET
::staring at the big tech-tree poster::
Maybe you could give them a couple of first/second leven techs right off the bat, and then one tech a few levels below temperal mechanics?
Speaking of innate bonuses of having a highschool education now 500 years ago, wouldn't that give them higher efficiency or maybe +1 (some kind of resource) per square? Possibly a few psi-Talents survived (higher prowess in psi-combat)?
Well.. I'm out of ideas now..
NotLikeTea posted 08-26-99 07:15 AM ET
I thought of giving them Matter Transmission at the beginning, to let them have Psi gates, but not have the immediate, low level, tech bonus of all the other factions. Then I noticed that this would let them build the Bulk Matter Transmitter from the very beginning, and this is a bit too powerful.
Any suggestions on future techs that would give them some kind of a nice bonus, without being too overly powerful (ie: No killer weapons/chassis/defences, and also require another future tech to get any further advances)
Martin Woodard posted 08-26-99 03:23 PM ET
How about giving them Matter Transmission, but preventing them from building bulk matter transmitter? (Is that an option?) Could site some sort of reservation about the dangers of large-scale jumps - perhaps not everyone made it through on the migration back, so they're a little paranoid.
I don't think Psi Gates would unbalance the game too much, seeing as how at the beginning bases are pretty close together anyhow, and given the incredible amount of time it would take a city with pop 3-4 to produce a psi gate. Also, it would be useless until you built two.
I like the overall idea, though. BTW, how do you people add factions? Just editing the text files, or is there a third-party editor other than the one being bundled with the add-on? Is there a FAQ or somesuch detailing how?
Thanks,
- /\/\ \/\/
edgecrusher posted 08-26-99 09:32 PM ET
MW: there's a faction editor that can be found somewhere on apopylon (sp?). i have an idea for a faction myself, but i'd like to know how to edit the graphics with out having serious pallate errors.
overall, notliketea, i give you kudos and props. it seems to be an excellent idea.
LdZpln posted 08-29-99 06:41 AM ET
It sounds like a really great faction for a scenario game. like akathisia said start them a little after planetfall, giving the other factions a headstart.
As for a penalty, what if going through the newly combined psi/temp gate wasn't completely safe, and many of them are now sterile imposing a growth problem.
LdZpln
NotLikeTea posted 08-29-99 09:27 AM ET
The Survivors, latest version:
+1 Research: (Easier to rediscover tech than discover it for the first time)
-1 Growth: (Reliance on technology/implants means many cannot reproduce in "primitive" society, and infant mortality is high)
-2 Police: (hatred of tyranny)
Future of Humanity: 1 extra Talent per 4 citizens
Knowledge of Planet: 20% Psi combat bonus
May not use Thought Control, preference for Eudaimonia
Tech: Centauri Psi (gives Psi Weapons, no fungus restrictions)

Some problems:
- AI doesn't seem to use Psi weapons. Ouch!
- Tech seems to influence Worm appearances. Scenario I tried had a few dozen worms in 2110. And some locusts.
- AI trades Centauri Psi away, ASAP.
Any suggestions?
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Author	Topic: The Survivors
NotLikeTea	posted 08-24-99 05:28 PM ET (I'm pasting this from an e-mail I sent to Shining1, who I consider to be excellent faction generation) The faction would be The Survivors. In 2496, an unnamed faction is sweeping across Planet, almost achieving a complete conquest. A small group of refugees from captured bases get together, pooling their resources, and manage to create a gate, combining the Psi Gate and Temporal Mechanics. Using this gate, they escape to the past, to emerge as the other factions are first landing. This faction would be primarily concerned with preventing their future from occuring again (as aversion to Power? Millitary/Police Penalties?) Of course, travelling from a future into the past, abandoning technologies, friends, and families would be very difficult (more Drones? Slower growth?) Of course, this seems to give no bonuses, and this is where I am stuck. My considerations would be a free tech (rescued future technology), a research bonus or sharetech (rediscovering tech easier than inventing it from scratch), an extra colony pod or other unit to begin (brought through the gate), or something else entirely. At the most extreme (and maybe most interesting), each base could get a free Psi Gate, but this may be difficult to balance, and I need to check if the AI uses them. And now the flavour text (stats are not final): Survivors, The Temporal Refugee, Survivors, M, 2, Jumping-Bull, M, -1, 0, 1, 0, 0, TECH, Indust, SOCIAL, -POLICE, SOCIAL, -SUPPORT, FACILITY, 33, UNIT, 0, PSI, 1, RESEARCH, 1, DRONE, 5, TALENT, 1, ENERGY, 1 Economics, Planned, TALENT Values, Power, nil Surviving, Surviv. Lillith, Kruger, Lillith's Rest Deputy, honourable, cowardly, brave, cowering, Escapist Fool ensure a safe future for all ensure this future is safe from tyranny changing history at all costs changing history at all costs try to control a Planet that you have already rightfully lost trying to change history to protect himself trying to change history to protect yourself spreading lies about a distopic "future" talk of the "future", M1 survival, M2 "historical plans", M1 deposit, M1 ensuring a safe future for all humanity my security forces the New Historical Design (no base names yet) #BLURB You call yourselves "survivalists". Yet you would fight to the death to defend your land. When we were faced with the decision of fight or flight, we choose to leave. Leave our home, leave our friends, leave our very era. We choose to survive. Is this any less courageous? Do the dead survive? ^ ^ -- William Jumping-Bull #DATALINKS1 ^LEADER: {Deputy William Jumping-Bull} ^BACKGROUND: {Leader of group to escape from future war to past} ^AGENDA: {Ensure history will not be repeated} ^TECH: {Industrial base} ^ #FACTIONTRUCE #xs 440 #caption $CAPTION7 "Please $NAME1! War will only lead to a future of tyranny. Let us pledge Blood Truce, and prevent this unnecessary death." "Very well, but I will respond if provoked." "No. I have no intention of living in the future you want to bring about." #FACTIONTREATY #xs 440 #caption $CAPTION7 "Shall we sign a Treaty of Friendship, and help to bring about an era of peace?" "Yes $NAME3. Death helps no one." "No. I don't want to have to submit to your vast plans." Any comments would be welcome! I need to get something concrete out of these vague concepts and ideas!
PawtheUnstuk	posted 08-24-99 09:25 PM ET In order to get an idea of how a faction like this might act, simply bring it home a little: Imagine that there is a nuclear war 10 years from now, and somehow a random assortment of modern humans manage to escape back to some date in the past: say right as the roman empire is emerging, say right as Colombus is discovering America, pick some interesting date and think through it. How would we fare? We would have to get a HUGE tech bonus. Even if a doctor can't give a cat scan or do advanced surgery, he's still going to have huge advantages over his now-contemporaries. He'll know about the germ theory of medicine. He'll know which things, such as bleeding, are counterproductive. Their might even be someone who as a vague idea of how to make penicillin or eye-glasses: sure no one will know the exact way of doing it. But knowing t hat such a thing does exist, and having a vague idea of a starting point is going to be a huge advantage. What sorts of science do you think you personally could do with just your HS diploma and 10th century tech? Someone might have a vague idea of making gunpowder. The Tech advantages are going to be huge. I'm not to sure about the disadvantages though. I'm thinking being accustomed to a different socioty with more tech. Ie., anyone who needs contacts or an inhaler is dead in a hurry. This will proabably be a bigger problem 500 years from now: what are the ppl who have MMI installed going to do when they can't find whatever is nessecary to take care of t heir implants? What about ppl who were raised with Pyschic tech? Will the much smaller 21st century xenofungus network be able to support transecndi? Hope that helped. Alex
NotLikeTea	posted 08-25-99 07:06 AM ET True, but that applies to skills, and not technology. A doctor from the future would know a vast amount about medecine. Engineers would know about modern building techniques. But imagine we have 1000 citizens, from today, trapped 500 years ago. Imagine a simple, and important technology like th radio. All will have seen and used a radio (probably). Maybe 100 will have some vague idea of how a radio actually works. But how many will be able to build one? How many will be able to construct the parts? How many will know how to obtain the materials to construct the parts? Of course, my faction would have an advantage, having prepared, if hastily, for the trip. Maybe giving them 2-3 free random techs at the beginning, or the sharetech would be the best way to go... Problem is that I don't want them to become just another University...
akathisia	posted 08-25-99 01:28 PM ET This sounds like a great idea for a faction. If you do give random techs though, it will likely make them too powerful. A human may play to prevent the all-out war, but what would the AI Yang do with 2-2-2 Rovers on turn 1. If you do assign a few free techs, make sure they don't give any great advantages (in other words, no high attack or defenses, no great facilities or SP's-imagine getting the tech for Cloning Vats on the first turn) Is there a way to vary the start date for just one faction so that they appear 5 or 10 years after planetfall? That would be an interesting con to a faction like this. Good Luck. akathisia
Rakeesh	posted 08-25-99 06:05 PM ET ::staring at the big tech-tree poster:: Maybe you could give them a couple of first/second leven techs right off the bat, and then one tech a few levels below temperal mechanics? Speaking of innate bonuses of having a highschool education now 500 years ago, wouldn't that give them higher efficiency or maybe +1 (some kind of resource) per square? Possibly a few psi-Talents survived (higher prowess in psi-combat)? Well.. I'm out of ideas now..
NotLikeTea	posted 08-26-99 07:15 AM ET I thought of giving them Matter Transmission at the beginning, to let them have Psi gates, but not have the immediate, low level, tech bonus of all the other factions. Then I noticed that this would let them build the Bulk Matter Transmitter from the very beginning, and this is a bit too powerful. Any suggestions on future techs that would give them some kind of a nice bonus, without being too overly powerful (ie: No killer weapons/chassis/defences, and also require another future tech to get any further advances)
Martin Woodard	posted 08-26-99 03:23 PM ET How about giving them Matter Transmission, but preventing them from building bulk matter transmitter? (Is that an option?) Could site some sort of reservation about the dangers of large-scale jumps - perhaps not everyone made it through on the migration back, so they're a little paranoid. I don't think Psi Gates would unbalance the game too much, seeing as how at the beginning bases are pretty close together anyhow, and given the incredible amount of time it would take a city with pop 3-4 to produce a psi gate. Also, it would be useless until you built two. I like the overall idea, though. BTW, how do you people add factions? Just editing the text files, or is there a third-party editor other than the one being bundled with the add-on? Is there a FAQ or somesuch detailing how? Thanks, - /\/\ \/\/
edgecrusher	posted 08-26-99 09:32 PM ET MW: there's a faction editor that can be found somewhere on apopylon (sp?). i have an idea for a faction myself, but i'd like to know how to edit the graphics with out having serious pallate errors. overall, notliketea, i give you kudos and props. it seems to be an excellent idea.
LdZpln	posted 08-29-99 06:41 AM ET It sounds like a really great faction for a scenario game. like akathisia said start them a little after planetfall, giving the other factions a headstart. As for a penalty, what if going through the newly combined psi/temp gate wasn't completely safe, and many of them are now sterile imposing a growth problem. LdZpln
NotLikeTea	posted 08-29-99 09:27 AM ET The Survivors, latest version: +1 Research: (Easier to rediscover tech than discover it for the first time) -1 Growth: (Reliance on technology/implants means many cannot reproduce in "primitive" society, and infant mortality is high) -2 Police: (hatred of tyranny) Future of Humanity: 1 extra Talent per 4 citizens Knowledge of Planet: 20% Psi combat bonus May not use Thought Control, preference for Eudaimonia Tech: Centauri Psi (gives Psi Weapons, no fungus restrictions) Some problems: - AI doesn't seem to use Psi weapons. Ouch! - Tech seems to influence Worm appearances. Scenario I tried had a few dozen worms in 2110. And some locusts. - AI trades Centauri Psi away, ASAP. Any suggestions?