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Author Topic:   New Faction! Fans of Shakespear

eNo posted 04-18-99 08:31 PM ET
+1 Research - There all scholars
+1 Probe - Enemy probe teams have trouble understanding iambic pentameter
-1 Economy - Intense spending in the arts
Tech: Planetary Networks
Free Hologram Theatre in every base
Anybody have ideas/critism?
Atombomb posted 04-19-99 02:07 PM ET
-1 economy is a joke big guy, -1 energy in just your capital....this race has no real negatives.
Ghost posted 04-19-99 04:34 PM ET
ditto with Atombomb--
you might be able to get away with +1 kn + 1 probe -1 econ... might, on the virtue of the fact that a) factions tend to have more bonuses than minuses and b) probe and knowledge bonuses don't integrate particularly well. I mean, they aren't bad, and certainly it will help you keep your tech advantage from other probe factions, but looking at the UoP or Believers indicates that they are each focussed on one way of getting tech, over others. However, they could be played as really nasty Fundamentalists,, with +3 probe (one of the magic numbers) and only -1 kn on the one hand... so I would say no, just for that combo. If they were unable to be Fundamentalists, then the SE might balance itself out. The reverse Knowledge combo is still pretty good (+3 kn -1 probe), but not so unbalanced.
Free Hologram theatres, tho... no. Too powerful.
--Ghost
eNo posted 04-19-99 07:24 PM ET
okay...how about:
+1 Research - They are all scholars
+1 Probe - Enemy probe teams have trouble understanding iambic pentameter
-1 Industry - Intense spending in the arts
Tech: Planetary Networks
Free Hologram Theatre in every base
0.75 votes - people don't take poets that seriously
Ghost posted 04-19-99 07:36 PM ET
No... if you want to put in Hologram Theatres, you'll have to do a lot better than that. Hologram theatres nix 2 drones, but they also increase psych output per base by 50%... if you pump energy into psych, you'll have it all too easy. Granted, the UoP can get this toy, but they need it just to break even. Nope, you're intruding on way too many different pluses... the +1 probe is arguably the "character" of the Believers (although so it their attack bonuses), you get a KN bonus, and wome serious psych bonuses, all for -1 industry and a piddling votes penalty? Nope.
Maybe if you keep the industry penalty and slap on a -2 morale, then you might be able to have the Theatres. Poets aren't warriors, unless they're Irish.
--Ghost
eNo posted 04-20-99 12:54 PM ET
The UoP has a +2 Research doesn't it? This faction only has 1. I also like +1 Probe penalty because I like the reason. Since this is a faction of playrights, it is logical that they have theatres in every base. How about:
+1 Research - They are all scholars
+1 Probe - Enemy probe teams have trouble understanding iambic pentameter
-1 Industry - Intense spending in the arts
-1 Morale - War becomes romantised
Tech: Planetary Networks
Free Hologram Theatre in every base
0.5 votes - people don't take poets that seriously
Ghost posted 04-20-99 01:39 PM ET
I just don't think they are balanced, is all.
UoP has to pay a lot for its tech lead... by giving them a knowledge bonus and probe penalty, they in some ways compensate for the fact that they know so much more by making it a lot easier for people to take that knowledge away. By giving them a drone penalty you limit their energy intake (either by removing workers or by causing them to divert energy into psych), which also helps to balance out their tech advantage. The Shakespearians, on the other hand, have many LESS drones than normal, making them in many respects a better research faction than the UoP on harder levels. Not to mention that they hit golden ages easily, via the +50% psych in every base. And, as was mentioned before, Fundamentalist Shakespearians are the ultimate Probers, able to get +3 probe with only -1 Knowledge... so they take what they want and keep what they have. Not fair.
I get the idea that the Hologram theatre is pretty much the raison d'etre for this group. Now, what that basically is is an inferior version of Lal's ability Talent ability... inferior because Lal can also build Hologram theatres (although he would have to pay their high maintenance) and maintain his initial abilities. If you want to be like Lal, look at what he has... no bonuses, one penalty. You aren't tresspassing anywhere near as far, so you can have a few small bonuses... but not both +1 Probe (which is very powerful, as it allows you to get +3 probe early) and +1 knowledge, which are arguably two of the strongest bonuses possible (econ bonuses being the third).
Ghost
p.s. not all poets are scholars.
eNo posted 04-20-99 10:12 PM ET
+1 Probe - Enemy probe teams have trouble understanding iambic pentameter
-1 Industry - Intense spending in the arts
-1 Morale - War becomes romantised
Immunity to negative RESEARCH - They are all scholars
Tech: Planetary Networks
Free Hologram Theatre in every base
0.5 votes - people don't take poets that seriously
OR
+1 Research - They are all scholars
-1 Industry - Intense spending in the arts
-1 Morale - War becomes romantised
Immunity to negative PROBE -understanding iambic pentameter
Tech: Planetary Networks
Free Hologram Theatre in every base
0.5 votes - people don't take poets that seriously
Al Gore Rythm posted 04-21-99 02:40 PM ET
Hmm, this doesn't really seem to fix any problems, eNo, it just recreates them in new ways:
Free Holo Theatre - As Ghost said, this is a very powerful tool. They can stop drones fast and can quickly rise to golden ages.
+1 Research/Probe - Fine.
Immunity to Research/Probe - No.
Basically, you have replaced one relatively minor advantage with an even greater advantage. That's not really balancing.
With immunity to probe I can go Knowledge with zero penalty. Which means, essentially, that these guys can get +3 Research for free.
With immunity to knowledge, I can be even worse and do a Fundy/Knowledge combo. Probe penalty shmobe penalty. The Fundy will negate it, and the Knowledge will just increase without being restrained. But now I have +1 Morale, negating one of their weaknesses. And the probe bonus from fundy will tip off the probe penalty from knowledge.
As Ghost put it, point per point balance doesn't work. Instead, extrapolate (or however you spell it) the whole idea.
One idea might be to give them a weak police rating (say -2.) In this way their holo theatres effectively put down drones they would be having. While this may seem useless, later on they can overcome the police hit and zoom to golden ages. But the police rating will deter such a thing from happening early on.
Then you can mix and match industry hits with probe or knowledge bonuses.
Just my tips, anyway...
Atombomb posted 04-21-99 04:32 PM ET
The free hologram theatre is great, yes, but keep in mind that it also means that you can not build them. Now this might sound strange, but think about what I am saying. Eventually everyone will build hologram theatres anyway, or claim the virtual world (this would be worthless to this faction), and the only real gain is that this faction would have to spend 2 less economy to maintain. This is still very good, but not all that much better than the bonuses other factions get, such as +1 talent for every 4 population. I think that the hologram theatre bonus would be a huge help to small cities however. If you wish to balance it, try this....double the effectiveness of hologram theatres instead of free one. That way it still has to be built, but it is not in a city at the start, which was the major problem before. Additionally, it allows the faction to still build the virtual world. Try this out:
+1 research: what you said
2x cost/difficulty for enemy faction probe team actions: blah blah
-1 industry: what you said
-1 police: literary master works tend to promote extremely liberal thoughts, making the population harder to control with military.
+100% effectiveness of hologram theatres (coding is to make it so that you receive 2 less drones and +50% psych automatically when one is built, to stack on the theatres capabilities).
MasterSmiloid posted 04-21-99 05:53 PM ET
What about a -1 Police?
I bet their pursuit of the arts leaves much to be desired in controling the masses.
Just a suggestion.
eNo posted 04-21-99 07:11 PM ET
+1 Probe - Enemy probe teams have trouble understanding iambic pentameter
-1 Industry - Intense spending in the arts
-1 Morale - War becomes romantised
-1 Police - Artists promote liberal thoughts
Tech: Planetary Networks
Free Hologram Theatre in every base
95% Techcost - They are all scholars
JT 3 posted 04-21-99 07:15 PM ET
Sounds better.
outlyr242 the rebirth posted 04-21-99 08:46 PM ET
Actually Shakespear was writing about the destruction of the dominant culture. You should have neg everything.
Hunterseeker posted 04-25-99 03:37 PM ET
Hi, I'm new to that thing of coding factions. How do you make that, IF something happens THEN something else will happen? And when I wrote 0.5 in the VOTES parameter, the faction were unable to vote at all?
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Author	Topic: New Faction! Fans of Shakespear
eNo	posted 04-18-99 08:31 PM ET +1 Research - There all scholars +1 Probe - Enemy probe teams have trouble understanding iambic pentameter -1 Economy - Intense spending in the arts Tech: Planetary Networks Free Hologram Theatre in every base Anybody have ideas/critism?
Atombomb	posted 04-19-99 02:07 PM ET -1 economy is a joke big guy, -1 energy in just your capital....this race has no real negatives.
Ghost	posted 04-19-99 04:34 PM ET ditto with Atombomb-- you might be able to get away with +1 kn + 1 probe -1 econ... might, on the virtue of the fact that a) factions tend to have more bonuses than minuses and b) probe and knowledge bonuses don't integrate particularly well. I mean, they aren't bad, and certainly it will help you keep your tech advantage from other probe factions, but looking at the UoP or Believers indicates that they are each focussed on one way of getting tech, over others. However, they could be played as really nasty Fundamentalists,, with +3 probe (one of the magic numbers) and only -1 kn on the one hand... so I would say no, just for that combo. If they were unable to be Fundamentalists, then the SE might balance itself out. The reverse Knowledge combo is still pretty good (+3 kn -1 probe), but not so unbalanced. Free Hologram theatres, tho... no. Too powerful. --Ghost
eNo	posted 04-19-99 07:24 PM ET okay...how about: +1 Research - They are all scholars +1 Probe - Enemy probe teams have trouble understanding iambic pentameter -1 Industry - Intense spending in the arts Tech: Planetary Networks Free Hologram Theatre in every base 0.75 votes - people don't take poets that seriously
Ghost	posted 04-19-99 07:36 PM ET No... if you want to put in Hologram Theatres, you'll have to do a lot better than that. Hologram theatres nix 2 drones, but they also increase psych output per base by 50%... if you pump energy into psych, you'll have it all too easy. Granted, the UoP can get this toy, but they need it just to break even. Nope, you're intruding on way too many different pluses... the +1 probe is arguably the "character" of the Believers (although so it their attack bonuses), you get a KN bonus, and wome serious psych bonuses, all for -1 industry and a piddling votes penalty? Nope. Maybe if you keep the industry penalty and slap on a -2 morale, then you might be able to have the Theatres. Poets aren't warriors, unless they're Irish. --Ghost
eNo	posted 04-20-99 12:54 PM ET The UoP has a +2 Research doesn't it? This faction only has 1. I also like +1 Probe penalty because I like the reason. Since this is a faction of playrights, it is logical that they have theatres in every base. How about: +1 Research - They are all scholars +1 Probe - Enemy probe teams have trouble understanding iambic pentameter -1 Industry - Intense spending in the arts -1 Morale - War becomes romantised Tech: Planetary Networks Free Hologram Theatre in every base 0.5 votes - people don't take poets that seriously
Ghost	posted 04-20-99 01:39 PM ET I just don't think they are balanced, is all. UoP has to pay a lot for its tech lead... by giving them a knowledge bonus and probe penalty, they in some ways compensate for the fact that they know so much more by making it a lot easier for people to take that knowledge away. By giving them a drone penalty you limit their energy intake (either by removing workers or by causing them to divert energy into psych), which also helps to balance out their tech advantage. The Shakespearians, on the other hand, have many LESS drones than normal, making them in many respects a better research faction than the UoP on harder levels. Not to mention that they hit golden ages easily, via the +50% psych in every base. And, as was mentioned before, Fundamentalist Shakespearians are the ultimate Probers, able to get +3 probe with only -1 Knowledge... so they take what they want and keep what they have. Not fair. I get the idea that the Hologram theatre is pretty much the raison d'etre for this group. Now, what that basically is is an inferior version of Lal's ability Talent ability... inferior because Lal can also build Hologram theatres (although he would have to pay their high maintenance) and maintain his initial abilities. If you want to be like Lal, look at what he has... no bonuses, one penalty. You aren't tresspassing anywhere near as far, so you can have a few small bonuses... but not both +1 Probe (which is very powerful, as it allows you to get +3 probe early) and +1 knowledge, which are arguably two of the strongest bonuses possible (econ bonuses being the third). Ghost p.s. not all poets are scholars.
eNo	posted 04-20-99 10:12 PM ET +1 Probe - Enemy probe teams have trouble understanding iambic pentameter -1 Industry - Intense spending in the arts -1 Morale - War becomes romantised Immunity to negative RESEARCH - They are all scholars Tech: Planetary Networks Free Hologram Theatre in every base 0.5 votes - people don't take poets that seriously OR +1 Research - They are all scholars -1 Industry - Intense spending in the arts -1 Morale - War becomes romantised Immunity to negative PROBE -understanding iambic pentameter Tech: Planetary Networks Free Hologram Theatre in every base 0.5 votes - people don't take poets that seriously
Al Gore Rythm	posted 04-21-99 02:40 PM ET Hmm, this doesn't really seem to fix any problems, eNo, it just recreates them in new ways: Free Holo Theatre - As Ghost said, this is a very powerful tool. They can stop drones fast and can quickly rise to golden ages. +1 Research/Probe - Fine. Immunity to Research/Probe - No. Basically, you have replaced one relatively minor advantage with an even greater advantage. That's not really balancing. With immunity to probe I can go Knowledge with zero penalty. Which means, essentially, that these guys can get +3 Research for free. With immunity to knowledge, I can be even worse and do a Fundy/Knowledge combo. Probe penalty shmobe penalty. The Fundy will negate it, and the Knowledge will just increase without being restrained. But now I have +1 Morale, negating one of their weaknesses. And the probe bonus from fundy will tip off the probe penalty from knowledge. As Ghost put it, point per point balance doesn't work. Instead, extrapolate (or however you spell it) the whole idea. One idea might be to give them a weak police rating (say -2.) In this way their holo theatres effectively put down drones they would be having. While this may seem useless, later on they can overcome the police hit and zoom to golden ages. But the police rating will deter such a thing from happening early on. Then you can mix and match industry hits with probe or knowledge bonuses. Just my tips, anyway...
Atombomb	posted 04-21-99 04:32 PM ET The free hologram theatre is great, yes, but keep in mind that it also means that you can not build them. Now this might sound strange, but think about what I am saying. Eventually everyone will build hologram theatres anyway, or claim the virtual world (this would be worthless to this faction), and the only real gain is that this faction would have to spend 2 less economy to maintain. This is still very good, but not all that much better than the bonuses other factions get, such as +1 talent for every 4 population. I think that the hologram theatre bonus would be a huge help to small cities however. If you wish to balance it, try this....double the effectiveness of hologram theatres instead of free one. That way it still has to be built, but it is not in a city at the start, which was the major problem before. Additionally, it allows the faction to still build the virtual world. Try this out: +1 research: what you said 2x cost/difficulty for enemy faction probe team actions: blah blah -1 industry: what you said -1 police: literary master works tend to promote extremely liberal thoughts, making the population harder to control with military. +100% effectiveness of hologram theatres (coding is to make it so that you receive 2 less drones and +50% psych automatically when one is built, to stack on the theatres capabilities).
MasterSmiloid	posted 04-21-99 05:53 PM ET What about a -1 Police? I bet their pursuit of the arts leaves much to be desired in controling the masses. Just a suggestion.
eNo	posted 04-21-99 07:11 PM ET +1 Probe - Enemy probe teams have trouble understanding iambic pentameter -1 Industry - Intense spending in the arts -1 Morale - War becomes romantised -1 Police - Artists promote liberal thoughts Tech: Planetary Networks Free Hologram Theatre in every base 95% Techcost - They are all scholars
JT 3	posted 04-21-99 07:15 PM ET Sounds better.
outlyr242 the rebirth	posted 04-21-99 08:46 PM ET Actually Shakespear was writing about the destruction of the dominant culture. You should have neg everything.
Hunterseeker	posted 04-25-99 03:37 PM ET Hi, I'm new to that thing of coding factions. How do you make that, IF something happens THEN something else will happen? And when I wrote 0.5 in the VOTES parameter, the faction were unable to vote at all?