The HIVE: why do they hate everyone?

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Author Topic:   The HIVE: why do they hate everyone?

destroyah692 posted 07-05-99 02:22 PM ET
Will someone please tell me how to get the hive on my side and keep them there. Evey game is the same, at first meeting they hate me and never stop hating me till I kill thier faction.
How do you make them trust you without handing them all your tech?

Destroyah
RGE posted 07-05-99 03:25 PM ET
Maybe it's your breath?
Last game I played I was in a Pact with Yang from the first time we communicated. We were on different continents, and I had chosen "Current rules", which apparently didn't work too well, as many of the winning conditions were disabled (and I know I hadn't started a game with such conditions). I was going for transcendance, only to realise that something was wrong. So maybe that game didn't count, since the lack of winning conditions might have caused the AI to consider my faction less threatening than if I had geared up for conquest.
But back to your breath; maybe it's the way you play? Maybe the AI decides allegiance from so many factors that it's practically random? If then you repeat your basic strategy in every game, the AI will repeat its decisions, since they would be based on your actions.
About handing tech over to them, I had to do this in my current game. But once I too got Doctrine: Air Power, I built a few SAM needlejets to block the movement of the huge Hive Army, and began to kill their scientists every time they came close to a breakthrough. I feel like I'm cheating
RGE
Krushala posted 07-05-99 03:48 PM ET
2 big factors. Your SE setting and both your power ratings. Without police state there is little chance of maintaining peace with them. I have played games where I have been allied with them for over 150 years. I was usually police state but sometimes democracy. The big reason for this was he was stuck on a small island. And was way behind on the power graph. It took him 100 years to get doctine: flexibility to get off his island. Even though I was in first place from 2275 on. He never really bothered me. But usually they are on a big continent and build cities like crazy. When he's 1 or 2 ranking watch out.
Zoetrope posted 07-06-99 06:01 AM ET
At least the Hive know when they're licked.
In my last game they were #1 ahead of my UoP, but I had much superior tech, and used jets and drop troops to wear them down to a handful of bases, then they surrendered.
But once Deirdre and Zak get stubborn, which they do too readily in my games, no matter my overtures to them, extermination is the only option. Guess they lack Yang's "Will To Live".
My current game (abandoned due to "TERRAN.EXE has caused an invalid page fault" - bother! that hard disk grinding suggests that W95 is swapping too much for its own health) was an Advanced Start (bad move!) which had the Hive at #1 again, with my PKs eventually at #2 or #3, but the Hive were perpetually at war with multiple neigbors (mostly the Believers, Gaians, my allies Morgan, and myself) and have been worn down enough to beg truce.
Unfortunately, the Believers are now a big #2, having grabbed many of the Hive's bases during Yang's stupid Hitlerite multi-front wars because they share the same continent.
Miriam won't talk to me though I'm Fundy/Green/Power (nor will Deirdre nor Corazon) and keeps harrassing my coastal formers with Shard Cruisers. So I was going to gun for her next, with an eye on reaching through Believer territory to force the Gaians to submit, but this page fault is a real show stopper.
It does indeed seem that getting on factions' good sides has to be done early, because Morgan has held his ancient Pact with me, though I've hardly ever used Free Market (the drones! the drones!).
Btw, during Sunspots I tried out some (non-atrocious) probe attacks against my other Pact partner, Zakharov, but when comms came back up he declared vendetta on grounds of atrocities (huh?), so I had to wipe him out. Morgan was also a Pact brother of Zak, but he didn't blink during this. Evidently Zak couldn't afford his price to break our Pact - Morgan does get a bit rich, in more than one sense.
I'm curious what determines the cost of mind-controlling a base? From one turn to the next, it sometimes skyrockets by an order of magnitude (and not only on 4 July in the USA and 5 November in the Commonwealth).
HolyWarrior posted 07-10-99 01:55 AM ET
Why would you want to get on that godless Commie's good side anyway?
The only way to do that is to use Police State. I have [b]never[/b] used Police State in a game--the inefficiency is a killer.
So just kill that Commie bastard, ok?
Krushala posted 07-10-99 11:10 AM ET
The faction that has atrocities committed to it always know even during sunspots. It's only the other factions that don't know about it. I guess the theory is a few citizens escape the base and flee back to the faction. I found this out when I tried to get supreme leader on the lal_2286 scenario.
Mcerion posted 07-10-99 03:01 PM ET
It has already been said, but the key to Yang's heart is his beloved Police State. I have had long standing pacts with him in the past. Yang hates Democrats and Fundamentalists.
ZyXEL posted 07-12-99 04:00 AM ET
The key to Yang's heart is to hit him so hard that he start begging. Then you should make peace, even brotherhood. He will never bother you again.
Or, even better, obliterate his quasi comunist ass off the planet (my solution )
�oki
itdoesntfit posted 07-13-99 05:01 PM ET
ZyXEL is absolutely wrong. There is no way to make peace with Hive. I gave them four tech, when that failed i captured four out of five of their colonies, he still hated me, I cleared all his units, he still hated me, I gave him all my tech (what a big mistake that was!) he still hated me, but recovered and attacked one colony. He didn't capture it though. But now he was strong, and he hates me ever more. I even gave him one of my cities. And of course, he still hates me. But then I thought what the ----! Who cares. I'll just destroy him so i'll have less competition when we vote, because the HIVE never vote for you (regardless of the proposal as long as your his enemy).
itdoesntfit posted 07-13-99 05:05 PM ET
I forgot, it might also be because I pick Democracy, Green, Wealth and am Peacekeepers
ZyXEL posted 07-14-99 02:01 AM ET
itdoesntfit: try with the Police state on SE table.
But as I said, I recomend the second solution, you know, the one which includes mass destruction weapons:
NUKES,NUKES,NUKES,NUKES...

�oki
Hamlet posted 07-14-99 06:02 AM ET
Why would anyone want to make peace with Lal anyway. If you play Peacekeepers (as I do), its next to impossible. You'll see Deidre littering and Morgan donating to charity before Yang makes peace with the UN.
walk with Lal
HolyWarrior posted 07-16-99 03:17 AM ET
Itdoesntfit: Have you ever used gas on Yang or obliterated a base or PBed him? If you have ever committed an atrocity against an AI opponent, they will NEVER make peace with you.
So wipe em.
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Author	Topic: The HIVE: why do they hate everyone?
destroyah692	posted 07-05-99 02:22 PM ET Will someone please tell me how to get the hive on my side and keep them there. Evey game is the same, at first meeting they hate me and never stop hating me till I kill thier faction. How do you make them trust you without handing them all your tech? Destroyah
RGE	posted 07-05-99 03:25 PM ET Maybe it's your breath? Last game I played I was in a Pact with Yang from the first time we communicated. We were on different continents, and I had chosen "Current rules", which apparently didn't work too well, as many of the winning conditions were disabled (and I know I hadn't started a game with such conditions). I was going for transcendance, only to realise that something was wrong. So maybe that game didn't count, since the lack of winning conditions might have caused the AI to consider my faction less threatening than if I had geared up for conquest. But back to your breath; maybe it's the way you play? Maybe the AI decides allegiance from so many factors that it's practically random? If then you repeat your basic strategy in every game, the AI will repeat its decisions, since they would be based on your actions. About handing tech over to them, I had to do this in my current game. But once I too got Doctrine: Air Power, I built a few SAM needlejets to block the movement of the huge Hive Army, and began to kill their scientists every time they came close to a breakthrough. I feel like I'm cheating RGE
Krushala	posted 07-05-99 03:48 PM ET 2 big factors. Your SE setting and both your power ratings. Without police state there is little chance of maintaining peace with them. I have played games where I have been allied with them for over 150 years. I was usually police state but sometimes democracy. The big reason for this was he was stuck on a small island. And was way behind on the power graph. It took him 100 years to get doctine: flexibility to get off his island. Even though I was in first place from 2275 on. He never really bothered me. But usually they are on a big continent and build cities like crazy. When he's 1 or 2 ranking watch out.
Zoetrope	posted 07-06-99 06:01 AM ET At least the Hive know when they're licked. In my last game they were #1 ahead of my UoP, but I had much superior tech, and used jets and drop troops to wear them down to a handful of bases, then they surrendered. But once Deirdre and Zak get stubborn, which they do too readily in my games, no matter my overtures to them, extermination is the only option. Guess they lack Yang's "Will To Live". My current game (abandoned due to "TERRAN.EXE has caused an invalid page fault" - bother! that hard disk grinding suggests that W95 is swapping too much for its own health) was an Advanced Start (bad move!) which had the Hive at #1 again, with my PKs eventually at #2 or #3, but the Hive were perpetually at war with multiple neigbors (mostly the Believers, Gaians, my allies Morgan, and myself) and have been worn down enough to beg truce. Unfortunately, the Believers are now a big #2, having grabbed many of the Hive's bases during Yang's stupid Hitlerite multi-front wars because they share the same continent. Miriam won't talk to me though I'm Fundy/Green/Power (nor will Deirdre nor Corazon) and keeps harrassing my coastal formers with Shard Cruisers. So I was going to gun for her next, with an eye on reaching through Believer territory to force the Gaians to submit, but this page fault is a real show stopper. It does indeed seem that getting on factions' good sides has to be done early, because Morgan has held his ancient Pact with me, though I've hardly ever used Free Market (the drones! the drones!). Btw, during Sunspots I tried out some (non-atrocious) probe attacks against my other Pact partner, Zakharov, but when comms came back up he declared vendetta on grounds of atrocities (huh?), so I had to wipe him out. Morgan was also a Pact brother of Zak, but he didn't blink during this. Evidently Zak couldn't afford his price to break our Pact - Morgan does get a bit rich, in more than one sense. I'm curious what determines the cost of mind-controlling a base? From one turn to the next, it sometimes skyrockets by an order of magnitude (and not only on 4 July in the USA and 5 November in the Commonwealth).
HolyWarrior	posted 07-10-99 01:55 AM ET Why would you want to get on that godless Commie's good side anyway? The only way to do that is to use Police State. I have [b]never[/b] used Police State in a game--the inefficiency is a killer. So just kill that Commie bastard, ok?
Krushala	posted 07-10-99 11:10 AM ET The faction that has atrocities committed to it always know even during sunspots. It's only the other factions that don't know about it. I guess the theory is a few citizens escape the base and flee back to the faction. I found this out when I tried to get supreme leader on the lal_2286 scenario.
Mcerion	posted 07-10-99 03:01 PM ET It has already been said, but the key to Yang's heart is his beloved Police State. I have had long standing pacts with him in the past. Yang hates Democrats and Fundamentalists.
ZyXEL	posted 07-12-99 04:00 AM ET The key to Yang's heart is to hit him so hard that he start begging. Then you should make peace, even brotherhood. He will never bother you again. Or, even better, obliterate his quasi comunist ass off the planet (my solution ) �oki
itdoesntfit	posted 07-13-99 05:01 PM ET ZyXEL is absolutely wrong. There is no way to make peace with Hive. I gave them four tech, when that failed i captured four out of five of their colonies, he still hated me, I cleared all his units, he still hated me, I gave him all my tech (what a big mistake that was!) he still hated me, but recovered and attacked one colony. He didn't capture it though. But now he was strong, and he hates me ever more. I even gave him one of my cities. And of course, he still hates me. But then I thought what the ----! Who cares. I'll just destroy him so i'll have less competition when we vote, because the HIVE never vote for you (regardless of the proposal as long as your his enemy).
itdoesntfit	posted 07-13-99 05:05 PM ET I forgot, it might also be because I pick Democracy, Green, Wealth and am Peacekeepers
ZyXEL	posted 07-14-99 02:01 AM ET itdoesntfit: try with the Police state on SE table. But as I said, I recomend the second solution, you know, the one which includes mass destruction weapons: NUKES,NUKES,NUKES,NUKES... �oki
Hamlet	posted 07-14-99 06:02 AM ET Why would anyone want to make peace with Lal anyway. If you play Peacekeepers (as I do), its next to impossible. You'll see Deidre littering and Morgan donating to charity before Yang makes peace with the UN. walk with Lal
HolyWarrior	posted 07-16-99 03:17 AM ET Itdoesntfit: Have you ever used gas on Yang or obliterated a base or PBed him? If you have ever committed an atrocity against an AI opponent, they will NEVER make peace with you. So wipe em.