Anyone got GROUP ASSEMBLE and GROUP GO TO to work

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Author Topic:   Anyone got GROUP ASSEMBLE and GROUP GO TO to work

Series II posted 06-29-99 06:05 PM ET
There are commands to form a group of up to 9 units. Shift J assembles a group and J is a Group Go To. I have never got this to work and would love to form some Former + Trance Scout pairs.
Anyone used this or figured out that this feature does not work?
bigB posted 06-29-99 07:36 PM ET
I kept trying to form two formers together and could never get it to work. I thought that it would make the work go twice as fast, and I would only have to give the command once. I hope someone else knows how to do this, because it would sure make terra-forming less tedious.
Zoetrope posted 06-30-99 04:44 AM ET
The design team really fouled up this command.
I can "get it to work", but it's as slow as sending units individually by hand. I once grouped together dozens of mindworms into one square, then ordered the group to go to a specific own base (WHY cannot we specify an ENEMY base?).
There was a magrail route between the two locations, so it should have been over in a flash, right? Hardy, har, har, very funny, Mr Reynolds. They went there, alright, one at a time, each worm crawling like a stunned snail all the way. I could have watched several TV sitcoms while I was waiting.
Look, let's make this so simple that even famous game designers can understand: you know fleets in Master of Orion? You know loaded troop transports in (hmm, what's that game again? oh yes) Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri? THAT's how groups (get it? GROUPS?) should move. As ONE.
What's that I hear? Battles are fought by one unit at a time? So? So? How do stacked units cope with an assault now? That's right, they may be stacked together, but they still fight one at a time.
Therefore, when a Group meets an enemy, a flag should go up ("Hello player!") and the player can then choose which unit is to attack, or whether to redirect the group around the enemy, if that's feasible.
Oh, but someone will object that units have different speeds. Well? How do army groups and naval fleets move in real life? While they are grouped together, they move together, at a speed limited by the slowest unit.
What about fungus and rocks that probabilistically impede progress? Now, that's the only issue. But I thought this game was supposed to be FUN. So, surely it's not beyond Firaxis's collective intellect to find a lovely, playable solution.
Yes, I know that the IQ of a committee equals the minimum of its members divided by the number of members. But surely someone is willing to take the responsibility. The buck must stop somewhere, right?
Zoetrope posted 06-30-99 04:55 AM ET
bigB: oh yes, I nearly forgot: you cannot give a command to a group, even when it makes perfect sense, as group terraforming does. the only commands issuable to a group are "Assemble" and "Go", which SeriesII has mentioned.
Brian Reynolds and Firaxis: I recommend a software book: "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs", by Harold Abelson and Gerald Jay Sussman (with drawings by Julie Sussman), which I sentimentally call the Donkey book (after the initial letters of the three authors' surnames).
It's an introduction to Scheme (an elegant Lisp dialect), very clearly written, with some great (that is, very practical and widely applicable) insights, particularly into ways to extend commands from Units to Groups.
To put it plainly, if a programmer omits to read that book, then their education is sadly lacking. (Hint, hint.)
Zoetrope posted 06-30-99 04:57 AM ET
MIT Press, 1985.
Foreword by Alan Perlis.
Zoetrope posted 06-30-99 05:04 AM ET
ISBN 0-262-01077-1 (MIT Press)
ISBN 0-07-000-422-6 (McGraw-Hill)
Incidentally, Sid Meier will appreciate the Alan J. Perlis quote on the book's dedication page:
"I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. ... I think we're responsible for stretching [computers], setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. ..."
sandworm posted 06-30-99 10:22 AM ET
Maybe making buggy software and watching us complain about it on the forums and saying how great the game is at the same time is FUN?
Its ironic at the very least
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Author	Topic: Anyone got GROUP ASSEMBLE and GROUP GO TO to work
Series II	posted 06-29-99 06:05 PM ET There are commands to form a group of up to 9 units. Shift J assembles a group and J is a Group Go To. I have never got this to work and would love to form some Former + Trance Scout pairs. Anyone used this or figured out that this feature does not work?
bigB	posted 06-29-99 07:36 PM ET I kept trying to form two formers together and could never get it to work. I thought that it would make the work go twice as fast, and I would only have to give the command once. I hope someone else knows how to do this, because it would sure make terra-forming less tedious.
Zoetrope	posted 06-30-99 04:44 AM ET The design team really fouled up this command. I can "get it to work", but it's as slow as sending units individually by hand. I once grouped together dozens of mindworms into one square, then ordered the group to go to a specific own base (WHY cannot we specify an ENEMY base?). There was a magrail route between the two locations, so it should have been over in a flash, right? Hardy, har, har, very funny, Mr Reynolds. They went there, alright, one at a time, each worm crawling like a stunned snail all the way. I could have watched several TV sitcoms while I was waiting. Look, let's make this so simple that even famous game designers can understand: you know fleets in Master of Orion? You know loaded troop transports in (hmm, what's that game again? oh yes) Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri? THAT's how groups (get it? GROUPS?) should move. As ONE. What's that I hear? Battles are fought by one unit at a time? So? So? How do stacked units cope with an assault now? That's right, they may be stacked together, but they still fight one at a time. Therefore, when a Group meets an enemy, a flag should go up ("Hello player!") and the player can then choose which unit is to attack, or whether to redirect the group around the enemy, if that's feasible. Oh, but someone will object that units have different speeds. Well? How do army groups and naval fleets move in real life? While they are grouped together, they move together, at a speed limited by the slowest unit. What about fungus and rocks that probabilistically impede progress? Now, that's the only issue. But I thought this game was supposed to be FUN. So, surely it's not beyond Firaxis's collective intellect to find a lovely, playable solution. Yes, I know that the IQ of a committee equals the minimum of its members divided by the number of members. But surely someone is willing to take the responsibility. The buck must stop somewhere, right?
Zoetrope	posted 06-30-99 04:55 AM ET bigB: oh yes, I nearly forgot: you cannot give a command to a group, even when it makes perfect sense, as group terraforming does. the only commands issuable to a group are "Assemble" and "Go", which SeriesII has mentioned. Brian Reynolds and Firaxis: I recommend a software book: "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs", by Harold Abelson and Gerald Jay Sussman (with drawings by Julie Sussman), which I sentimentally call the Donkey book (after the initial letters of the three authors' surnames). It's an introduction to Scheme (an elegant Lisp dialect), very clearly written, with some great (that is, very practical and widely applicable) insights, particularly into ways to extend commands from Units to Groups. To put it plainly, if a programmer omits to read that book, then their education is sadly lacking. (Hint, hint.)
Zoetrope	posted 06-30-99 04:57 AM ET MIT Press, 1985. Foreword by Alan Perlis.
Zoetrope	posted 06-30-99 05:04 AM ET ISBN 0-262-01077-1 (MIT Press) ISBN 0-07-000-422-6 (McGraw-Hill) Incidentally, Sid Meier will appreciate the Alan J. Perlis quote on the book's dedication page: "I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. ... I think we're responsible for stretching [computers], setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. ..."
sandworm	posted 06-30-99 10:22 AM ET Maybe making buggy software and watching us complain about it on the forums and saying how great the game is at the same time is FUN? Its ironic at the very least