Punishment Spheres: The Costs/Benefits of Going Droneless

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Author Topic:   Punishment Spheres: The Costs/Benefits of Going Droneless

K posted 06-19-99 05:34 AM ET
Why is it that people don't seem to know that P-spheres are the greatest thing around.
Once I get the tech and build them, several things happen:
1. Within ten turns(Demo/Planned/Creche) all may bases jump from size 5 to size 14, doubling my energy production(minus inefficiency, of course) due to new resources harvested or libraians and techies, and jumping my power graph.
2. I can now go from Police State/Green to Demo/Free Market, increasing research and $$$ to a third faster than my pre-Sphere rate.
3. Drone riots are a thing of the past.
4. My Psych energy allocation becomes a thing of the past.
5, Probe induced Drone riots become a distant memory.
My question is: what's the drawback?
The extra enegr agined from a Golden age is nothing compared to the benefits I've outlined here.
Anybody?
korn469 posted 06-19-99 07:31 AM ET
k
you make many valid points and overall going with punishment sphere seems like the way to go. in fact i have been experimenting with punishment spheres lately and what i wanna know is just exactly how much do they retard your research rate. i am worried that a bug exists in the game with reguards to punishments spheres slowing down tech. i haven't been able to detect any loss of tech at all. do you know the formula that punishment shperes use to calculate how much your overall research is slowed down?
korn469
laurens posted 06-19-99 08:46 PM ET
K
But at your frontal states (especially your neighbour is Morgan), don't the "increased vulverability to enemy mind control" give the probes a party time?
I supposed with the supposedly decreased research output off, this might be the only real disadvantage, unless somebody discovers another flaw with P.S. again....
v4... where are you?
laurens posted 06-19-99 08:51 PM ET
If the research output is indeed not affected, then will the "increased vulnerability to enemy mind control" be the only real disadvantage provided that there are no flaws this time round?
jimmytrick posted 06-19-99 10:05 PM ET
K,
Well, you do not need to build p-sphere to pop boom. You can manage the drone problem while the boom is on without them.
You can't go from 5 to 14 unless hab facilities are in place. Usually I boom from 7 to 14 just as you say, but rather than build p-spheres, I take other measures so that I can still use the golden age for extra energy after I get there.
I make extensive use of crawlers and specialists. I believe this method is best, but, I may be wrong.
Certainly, when I boom from 14 to XX, I think its better not to have the spheres, but, of course you could argue that its a moot point because the AI is outclassed six ways from Sunday by that point in the game.
Series II posted 06-21-99 07:58 AM ET
Spheres are supposed to reduce a city's research by 1/2. It would be possible to check by looking at each city's science output before and after the sphere. If there is no research penalty than spheres are the thing to build espicially after you get Hunter Seeker Algor.
I will try and experiment tonight in my UOP game.
Zoetrope posted 06-24-99 08:51 AM ET
Just so readers to this thread don't get the wrong impression about punishment spheres, the conclusion made in another thread was that the research halving is the very last step of the calculation.
This effect doesn't show up in the base screen( so it looks as though there's a PS bug), but it does halve the research contribution of that base to the whole faction (so there is no PS bug), that is it accordingly reduces the rate at which you actually discover tech.
Btw, some bases seem predisposed to riot, so I may build a PS there.
The governor is supposed to be able to take care of drone riots, but I find that s/he lets them riot for a turn before doing anything about it, which gives them time to destroy property. Pardon my French, guv, but "Idiot!".
Natguy posted 06-26-99 01:43 PM ET
Hey, then you can build genejack factories without dealing with the extra drone, although it would put your probe thing back to normal. I thing I'll try this strategy! You can go Free Market too! Anybody know which faction this would work best with? I'm thinking Hive.
Natguy posted 06-26-99 04:39 PM ET
Well, I'm playing a game as the UoP on Transcend level, and I have built a Punishment Spere in almost every city (those that don't have one are building one) and I have to say that this tactic works well! It's wonderful to not have to worry about drones, especially as the UoP, without waiting until you can build the Telepathic Matrix, or without nerve-stapling the populace.
Natguy posted 06-26-99 04:43 PM ET
Oops, I accidentaly clicked before I was done.
I'm currently using Free Market, and it's the first time I can do just about anything without worrying about needing to change my Social Engineering. Although I'm currently building my infrastructure, as soon as I build several Genejack Factories I'll mobilize for war and attempt to destroy, say, the Peacekeepers. All, of course, on Free Market, and without drone problems when my troops are away!
Resource Consumer posted 06-27-99 06:18 PM ET
From a Morgan perspective, I have always avoided building PSs. But when I have in one or two cities (and usually my empires are fairly small - 10-12 bases before conquest) I haven't noticed a significant retardation in faction science output.
I am coming to the view that they could be cool things to have and sod the tech problems.
Dowdc posted 06-30-99 02:23 AM ET
There certainly is a punishment sphere bug, and it must be fixed in an upcoming patch or the game will be terribly unbalanced. Punishment spheres don't affect research AT ALL. I don't know how this bug slipped past.
This bug hurts gameplay immensely--who needs the Telepathic matrix when you could just build spheres everywhere? Something needs to be done about this...
Zoetrope posted 06-30-99 07:00 AM ET
Dowdc: No, no, no. Have you not been paying close attention? There is no PS bug, we have not been researching the PS bug, and we will not allow our precious game to be character assassinated in the name of this ridiculous witch hunt!
Seriously, the regular forum contributor who first suggested the PS bug, investigated further and found that there is no PS bug. The base screen doesn't show the effect, but the faction's research slows down as expected.
But there is a "time to research" indicator bug in the F2 research screen. If it would normally take five turns to discover a tech, then you put punishment spheres in every base, the indicator still shows five turns to go, but when you count, it takes ten turns to discover the tech, as it should.
So the F2 indicator gives false hope. That's the bug.
You might also argue that the base's labs value should be halved, so that's a second display bug.
But the punishment spheres do their job as advertised. (Sorry, but there's no free lunch from them: you need to be a real-life company director for that, and punish the ordinary taxpayer and consumer to pay the bill. )
aceplayer posted 06-30-99 09:12 AM ET
dowdc - korn469 covered the punishment sphere bug thoroughly
the bug is in the display - at the base at at the F2 screen -
your rate of research is changed - though the displays dont show it
go to "the game" - topic " punishment sphere bug. it needs verification" - last updated 6/20
sandworm posted 08-10-99 05:43 PM ET
going up, this is a good one.
sandworm posted 09-02-99 12:53 PM ET
up
Compugasm posted 10-05-99 12:01 PM ET
Bump - good thread.
Biddles posted 10-06-99 03:34 AM ET
Interesting,
The increase of energy from free market would offset the research almost completely. Considering that you wouldn't have to dump money into psych and build rec commons, holo theatre etc. You probably would come out on top.
Very interesting. Very interesting indeed.
-Biddles
ForcePacifist posted 10-06-99 10:41 AM ET
i name this tactic, the K-Policy.
this bodes well for my plans for world domination.
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Author	Topic: Punishment Spheres: The Costs/Benefits of Going Droneless
K	posted 06-19-99 05:34 AM ET Why is it that people don't seem to know that P-spheres are the greatest thing around. Once I get the tech and build them, several things happen: 1. Within ten turns(Demo/Planned/Creche) all may bases jump from size 5 to size 14, doubling my energy production(minus inefficiency, of course) due to new resources harvested or libraians and techies, and jumping my power graph. 2. I can now go from Police State/Green to Demo/Free Market, increasing research and $$$ to a third faster than my pre-Sphere rate. 3. Drone riots are a thing of the past. 4. My Psych energy allocation becomes a thing of the past. 5, Probe induced Drone riots become a distant memory. My question is: what's the drawback? The extra enegr agined from a Golden age is nothing compared to the benefits I've outlined here. Anybody?
korn469	posted 06-19-99 07:31 AM ET k you make many valid points and overall going with punishment sphere seems like the way to go. in fact i have been experimenting with punishment spheres lately and what i wanna know is just exactly how much do they retard your research rate. i am worried that a bug exists in the game with reguards to punishments spheres slowing down tech. i haven't been able to detect any loss of tech at all. do you know the formula that punishment shperes use to calculate how much your overall research is slowed down? korn469
laurens	posted 06-19-99 08:46 PM ET K But at your frontal states (especially your neighbour is Morgan), don't the "increased vulverability to enemy mind control" give the probes a party time? I supposed with the supposedly decreased research output off, this might be the only real disadvantage, unless somebody discovers another flaw with P.S. again.... v4... where are you?
laurens	posted 06-19-99 08:51 PM ET If the research output is indeed not affected, then will the "increased vulnerability to enemy mind control" be the only real disadvantage provided that there are no flaws this time round?
jimmytrick	posted 06-19-99 10:05 PM ET K, Well, you do not need to build p-sphere to pop boom. You can manage the drone problem while the boom is on without them. You can't go from 5 to 14 unless hab facilities are in place. Usually I boom from 7 to 14 just as you say, but rather than build p-spheres, I take other measures so that I can still use the golden age for extra energy after I get there. I make extensive use of crawlers and specialists. I believe this method is best, but, I may be wrong. Certainly, when I boom from 14 to XX, I think its better not to have the spheres, but, of course you could argue that its a moot point because the AI is outclassed six ways from Sunday by that point in the game.
Series II	posted 06-21-99 07:58 AM ET Spheres are supposed to reduce a city's research by 1/2. It would be possible to check by looking at each city's science output before and after the sphere. If there is no research penalty than spheres are the thing to build espicially after you get Hunter Seeker Algor. I will try and experiment tonight in my UOP game.
Zoetrope	posted 06-24-99 08:51 AM ET Just so readers to this thread don't get the wrong impression about punishment spheres, the conclusion made in another thread was that the research halving is the very last step of the calculation. This effect doesn't show up in the base screen( so it looks as though there's a PS bug), but it does halve the research contribution of that base to the whole faction (so there is no PS bug), that is it accordingly reduces the rate at which you actually discover tech. Btw, some bases seem predisposed to riot, so I may build a PS there. The governor is supposed to be able to take care of drone riots, but I find that s/he lets them riot for a turn before doing anything about it, which gives them time to destroy property. Pardon my French, guv, but "Idiot!".
Natguy	posted 06-26-99 01:43 PM ET Hey, then you can build genejack factories without dealing with the extra drone, although it would put your probe thing back to normal. I thing I'll try this strategy! You can go Free Market too! Anybody know which faction this would work best with? I'm thinking Hive.
Natguy	posted 06-26-99 04:39 PM ET Well, I'm playing a game as the UoP on Transcend level, and I have built a Punishment Spere in almost every city (those that don't have one are building one) and I have to say that this tactic works well! It's wonderful to not have to worry about drones, especially as the UoP, without waiting until you can build the Telepathic Matrix, or without nerve-stapling the populace.
Natguy	posted 06-26-99 04:43 PM ET Oops, I accidentaly clicked before I was done. I'm currently using Free Market, and it's the first time I can do just about anything without worrying about needing to change my Social Engineering. Although I'm currently building my infrastructure, as soon as I build several Genejack Factories I'll mobilize for war and attempt to destroy, say, the Peacekeepers. All, of course, on Free Market, and without drone problems when my troops are away!
Resource Consumer	posted 06-27-99 06:18 PM ET From a Morgan perspective, I have always avoided building PSs. But when I have in one or two cities (and usually my empires are fairly small - 10-12 bases before conquest) I haven't noticed a significant retardation in faction science output. I am coming to the view that they could be cool things to have and sod the tech problems.
Dowdc	posted 06-30-99 02:23 AM ET There certainly is a punishment sphere bug, and it must be fixed in an upcoming patch or the game will be terribly unbalanced. Punishment spheres don't affect research AT ALL. I don't know how this bug slipped past. This bug hurts gameplay immensely--who needs the Telepathic matrix when you could just build spheres everywhere? Something needs to be done about this...
Zoetrope	posted 06-30-99 07:00 AM ET Dowdc: No, no, no. Have you not been paying close attention? There is no PS bug, we have not been researching the PS bug, and we will not allow our precious game to be character assassinated in the name of this ridiculous witch hunt! Seriously, the regular forum contributor who first suggested the PS bug, investigated further and found that there is no PS bug. The base screen doesn't show the effect, but the faction's research slows down as expected. But there is a "time to research" indicator bug in the F2 research screen. If it would normally take five turns to discover a tech, then you put punishment spheres in every base, the indicator still shows five turns to go, but when you count, it takes ten turns to discover the tech, as it should. So the F2 indicator gives false hope. That's the bug. You might also argue that the base's labs value should be halved, so that's a second display bug. But the punishment spheres do their job as advertised. (Sorry, but there's no free lunch from them: you need to be a real-life company director for that, and punish the ordinary taxpayer and consumer to pay the bill. )
aceplayer	posted 06-30-99 09:12 AM ET dowdc - korn469 covered the punishment sphere bug thoroughly the bug is in the display - at the base at at the F2 screen - your rate of research is changed - though the displays dont show it go to "the game" - topic " punishment sphere bug. it needs verification" - last updated 6/20
sandworm	posted 08-10-99 05:43 PM ET going up, this is a good one.
sandworm	posted 09-02-99 12:53 PM ET up
Compugasm	posted 10-05-99 12:01 PM ET Bump - good thread.
Biddles	posted 10-06-99 03:34 AM ET Interesting, The increase of energy from free market would offset the research almost completely. Considering that you wouldn't have to dump money into psych and build rec commons, holo theatre etc. You probably would come out on top. Very interesting. Very interesting indeed. -Biddles
ForcePacifist	posted 10-06-99 10:41 AM ET i name this tactic, the K-Policy. this bodes well for my plans for world domination.